Need Help, Oh Artsy Ones!

[Disneyphile]

My first AfterEffects project has to be surrealist. I have to bring in at least five surrealist assets (photos, video shots, sounds, etc.) and compose them into a video piece.

I love art, really I do, but I just don't "get" surrealism. I find it strange and somewhat disturbing at times.

So, I know a lot of you here are very artsy types, and I'm hoping that some of you would mind explaining surrealism in idiot language so I can hopefully understand it.

What is it? Symbolism? What? My brain gets mushy even trying to think of it. (Actually, maybe that could be my first project - showing an open skull with mashed potatoes oozing through the eye sockets or something. Did I just "get it" with that idea?)

So, um.... help please! :blush:

[Ghoulish Delight]

Boy, this thread could turn into a doctoral thesis.

There are a LOT of answers. But to me, the most interesting aspect of surrealism is the blurring of lines between medium, content, and meaning.

For example, this iconinc piece from Marcel Duchamp:

http://mcsweeneys.net/books/everythingthatrisesimages/pipe345.jpg

It translates of course to "This is not a pipe," and seems to present a puzzling paradox. It is a pipe, yet it's not, but it is but it isn't. But is it? Isn't it just a painting of a pipe? Or, getting even further into it, you could look at it and say "This is not a pipe" refers not to the image of the pipe, but to the words themselves, posing no paradox whatsoever.

Similar sorts of mental gymnastics are presented by MC Escher. His exploitation of the limitations of 2-D representations of 3-D structures create seeming paradoxes. Images that do not violate any law of graphic perspective, yet cannot possibly exist. Or can they? Here's a video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/514944/incredible_optical_illusion_sculpture_video/) demonstrating the reversal of the visual exploitation that Escher relied on.

But that's just one aspect of surrealism. Dali represents a different idea of surrealism. Less about word play and illusion, more about fantasy. Creation of impossible realms with symbolism that challenges the standard definitions of how to use symbolism. But of course they are related in that the visions he creates "can't possibly exist", and yet, there they are, existing in painting form. It's not the same kind of impossibility that Escher presents, but it still begs the essential question of what is impossible if we can imagine it and visualize it.

[Alex]

Or take the amateurs route (AKA "The Street Fair School") to surrealism:

1. Do or make something that makes no sense.
2. Look smug when presenting it.
3. Act superior to those who would question its merits as art.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Or take the amateurs route (AKA "The Street Fair School") to surrealism:

1. Do or make something that makes no sense.
2. Look smug when presenting it.
3. Act superior to those who would question its merits as art.
Now you're confusing abstract with surreal.

[JWBear]

For example, this iconinc piece from Marcel Duchamp:

http://mcsweeneys.net/books/everythingthatrisesimages/pipe345.jpg


René Magritte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images), actually.

[Alex]

Now you're confusing abstract with surreal.

No the key is "doesn't make sense." The Street Fair School of Abstract Art is:


1. Do or make something that people can't tell what it is.
2. Look smug when presenting it.
3. Act superior to those who would question its merits as art.

[Ghoulish Delight]

René Magritte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images), actually.
*thwap* Sorry, wires crossed.

[Not Afraid]

Surrealism was first and foremost a philosophical concept that was interpreted through aesthetics. Andre' Breton was the "founder" of surrealism with his 1924 "Surrealist Manifesto" (which is actually a great read!).

The term surrealism can also be stated as "super real". The visual interpretations take ideas and concepts beyond the concrete, the known reality unto the unknown. This is done through juxtaposition of everyday visuals in incongruious or unreal settings.

The roots of Surrealism grew out of the exploration of the Freudian unconscious in response to rational thinking that many artists thought caused the horror of destruction of WWI. The movement grew out of the Dada movement and artists such as Marcel Duchamp.

Surrealism continues to exists in modern film and literature with Miazaki, Hitchcock (watch the Spellbound dream sequence directed by Dali), and with authors who add elements of magical realism like Garcia Marquez, Rushdie, Murakami, and Allende.

Artists to look at for inspiration include Dali, Magritte, Earnst, Tanguy, Arp, De Chirico, Miro and photographer May Ray. My personal favorites are Magritte, and Man Ray. Also, take a look at Hieronymus Bosch who proceeded Surrealism by over 400 years but whose art is definitely Surrealist in nature.

[Disneyphile]

VAM. ROFLMAO!!! Love it. According to Alex's rules, I can just take a decapitated mannequin, add a watermelon to the top of its neck, place it on a giant toothbrush that is floating in the middle of the ocean with a giant eyeball overhead with sunbeams emitting from its iris. And then title it something like, "Humanity".

Thanks for the insights so far, GD and NA. I'll look at some of those works for general ideas hopefully without losing my mind in the process. Feel free to keep "dumbing it down" for me. I look at most Dali works with "WTF". ;)

[Not Afraid]

I look at Dali with WTF too. (I'm not a fan.) I find Man Ray and Magritte to be more provocative.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I love art, really I do, but I just don't "get" surrealism. I find it strange and somewhat disturbing at times. Quite often the point of surrealism is to show a strange, disturbing point of view.

Anyone can take what they see and draw/paint/sculpt/film a version of it, to varying levels of success, of course. Most argue that good art not only reflects, it also gives the viewer a new way of looking at the subject. That is the very basic way that I look at surrealism.

GD brought up Magritte - here's my favorite one of his, titled The Kiss:

http://chusherry.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kiss.jpg

I saw this in person and was blown away by the idea of it. It fills my head with meanings. I think of it as showing that outward acts of affection don't mean everything, that many relationships have invisible boundaries, that a kiss is a kiss no matter who the kissers are...there are many ways to look at it. (I have never looked up the "official" interpretations and I intend not to.) A drawing of two normal people kissing would never have this impact on anyone.

According to Alex's rules, I can just take a decapitated mannequin, add a watermelon to the top of its neck, place it on a giant toothbrush that is floating in the middle of the ocean with a giant eyeball overhead with sunbeams emitting from its iris. And then title it something like, "Humanity".You'd be doing yourself a disservice if you discarded this opportunity to try something new and instead made a joke of it. As someone who was not raised on art, never did much formal study, and now loves the more challenging aspects of it, I think everyone should give surrealism a real shot. There are many different artists, many different ways to enter it, and I can practically guarantee that there is some artist somewhere that can provide a good connection for you.

[Not Afraid]

Quite often the point of surrealism is to show a strange, disturbing point of view.



I would say a strange OR disturbing point of view because I don't find surrealism to be all disturbing. Strange is a term that i think can easily be applied to most of it. I find a lot of surrealist work very beautiful - like a strange yet calming dream. That's the connection with the unconscious that surrealism is making. I think some of us have more violent dreams than others - dreams that probably come out of our sub-conscious.

To add in a Disney element - beyond the obvious Disney/Dali Destino collaboration - Thru the Mirror is wonderfully surrealist and it could be argued that The Scorcer's Apprentice has elements of surrealism.

[flippyshark]

To add in a Disney element - beyond the obvious Disney/Dali Destino collaboration - Thru the Mirror is wonderfully surrealist and it could be argued that The Scorcer's Apprentice has elements of surrealism.

Add 'Pink Elephants On Parade' from Dumbo, 'Heffalumps and Woozles' from Winnie The Pooh and the Blustery Day, pretty much all of Alice In Wonderland, big chunks of The Three Caballeros and Saludos Amigos.

[Ghoulish Delight]

A discussion of modern surrealism is not complete without mention of Haruki Murakami. He's a Japanese novelist, many of us on the board have mentioned his books a lot (The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, A Wild Sheep Chase, Kafka on te Shore). Very accessible writing that definitely epitomizes surrealism. On the American side, Kurt Vonnegut definitely makes use of a surrealist elements in his writing.

[bewitched]

If Dali intrigues you, in layman's language, I would define his surrealism as where reality meets the unlimited boundaries of dreams.

Kind of like where something happens in a dream that you know is impossible in real life yet there you are in a dream reality where it does, indeed, exist.

[CoasterMatt]

Sometimes, I wake screaming in the night,
With the overwhelming desire to staple my eyes and mouth shut
To block out the sound of the walls as my house tumble dries my tears

Not surrealism, but some really good drugs. Sorry I'm of no assistance here.

[Alex]

You'd be doing yourself a disservice if you discarded this opportunity to try something new and instead made a joke of it.

I'm superior to you, for you have not accepted the value of my art.

[Not Afraid]

Surrealism continues to exists in modern film and literature......with authors who add elements of magical realism like Garcia Marquez, Rushdie, Murakami, and Allende.



A discussion of modern surrealism is not complete without mention of Haruki Murakami. He's a Japanese novelist, many of us on the board have mentioned his books a lot (The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, A Wild Sheep Chase, Kafka on te Shore). Very accessible writing that definitely epitomizes surrealism.

:)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow. I re-read your post to make sure I didn't miss it. Apparently that paragraph was firmly in my blind spot.

[CoasterMatt]

Isn't surrealism that wonderful place where the sidewalk ends?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm superior to you, for you have not accepted the value of my art.Your art is valuable, indeed. Let's have a look at your first work in this thread.
Or take the amateurs route (AKA "The Street Fair School") to surrealism:

1. Do or make something that makes no sense.
2. Look smug when presenting it.
3. Act superior to those who would question its merits as art.
At first blush, it may seem that the post is simply poking holes in the basic concept of surrealism as "art". On closer inspection, one word stands out - "amateurs". Besides the obvious grammatical issue (which I'm sure is intentional, right, Alex?) it points out that only amateurs would consider this a route to surrealism. (No offense to Disneyphile - this thread itself is a way of claiming amateur status). By stating as such, instead of subverting surrealism it is reaffirming surrealism as a learned art form.

Of course the real art form at hand is the art form of the Message Board Post, which, I daresay, most of us mastered many years ago.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Comedy surrealism abounds these days and I'm a huge fan. GD and I happened across this today. I think it makes an accessible example.

NSFW due to language.
CLOSED! (http://www.thunderant.com/?p=87)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

GD tells me that my response to Alex seems serious. In case any of you feel the same, I'll claim victory in the art of Dry Wit Dueling with Alex. :)

[Alex]

Your art is valuable, indeed.

And thus you've deprived me of my artiness. For having been made sense of, it no longer is.

It's a said day in Farmville for I have lost my Street Fair booth license and am left able only to frolic among the pinwheels of passion and temperance.

[Morrigoon]

This page looks like a pretty simple explanation (http://library.thinkquest.org/J002045F/surrealism.htm)

[Tref]

Comedy surrealism abounds these days and I'm a huge fan. GD and I happened across this today. I think it makes an accessible example.

NSFW due to language.
CLOSED! (http://www.thunderant.com/?p=87)

Comedy surrealism is in need of an editor.

[Disneyphile]

(No offense to Disneyphile - this thread itself is a way of claiming amateur status).None taken. I'm absolutely not ashamed to say I don't know something and ask for help. :)

This thread is really helping. I'm finding I really like Magritte - it's very intriguing, rather than WTF, like Dali.

An especially big thanks to those who made the Disney examples. That's putting it in a language I can understand. ;)

So, all of this is really helping me gather ideas for my project. I knew I came to the right place. :D

[Disneyphile]

I love you people! I'm sitting here in class, working on my surrealism animation project, and my instructor LOVES it! :)

I'll show it in a couple weeks once we finish it. But, I can say it represents a matter very close to me, and can still represent other things for other observers. It's exactly what I was hoping to achieve.

Thanks SO much for all your help!

[alphabassettgrrl]

Cool!

Let me guess- it's a martini glass that eats bacon while surfing?

[Disneyphile]

Let me guess- it's a martini glass that eats bacon while surfing?
Nope. Nothing that "fun". ;) It's actually quite disturbing, really - it pictorially conveys a destructive thought process that I've personally battled.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Interesting.

I look forward to when you share it!

[Disneyphile]

Today, we had to present our storyboard and composite art for the surrealist animation. I received outstanding crit, and my instructor says that I "nailed it" when it comes to telling a surrealist tale through images. :)

I'd love to show it off, but we just start the animation and effects process today, so it'll be a couple weeks yet.

Thank you SO much for all the input, everyone! It was most helpful. :)

[Gemini Cricket]

Congrats!
:)

[Kevy Baby]

I received outstanding crit...My mind replaced the "r" in that last word with an "l" and that gave a WHOLE new spin on that post.



Congrats on the excellent progress!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

WTG :)

[Disneyphile]

Here it is! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NQMgtLcv5Y)

All of the art was drawn in Photoshop. Every element of it - all started with a mouse. ;)

I came up with this concept based on the mindset behind food addiction. It pretty much describes the repetitious behavior that is so consuming, that the person is separated from the world, which eventually fades away.

Speaking of which, the world does finally fade away in this story, yet viewers might be so drawn to the food, that they might not notice, just like a person struggling with food addiction.

Thanks for watching. :)

[Not Afraid]

That's FANTASTIC T! I love it!

[mousepod]

Great job!

[alphabassettgrrl]

Wow, T! The sound and the disappearing Earth really got to me.

[lindyhop]

Finally managed to watch this...great job!:snap: