Survivor - Heros vs Villians

[Moonliner]

The premier is tonight.

I have to think that Russel does well, since this was all filmed before the last reunion show. His insistence on being the greatest of all times would not seem to fit well with his not being in the final group this go round.

Also, unless they gave the other players advanced access to last seasons shows, none of them will have seen Russell's game. A definite advange to him. So Russell is my pick to take it all but I'll still be rooting for Stephanie as always.

[scaeagles]

Interesting analysis. That would definitely be a huge advantage for Russell.

I wonder how quickly the heroes will become villians....for example, Rupert is considered a hero, and I always loved watching him, but he quickly was angered and turned on those who dared to vote against him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I imagine that at least some of the heroes that didn't make it to the end in their seasons will very quickly turn, having learned their lesson.

[Stan4dSteph]

Don't forget, Stephenie spells her name wrong.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The premier is tonight.

I have to think that Russel does well, since this was all filmed before the last reunion show. His insistence on being the greatest of all times would not seem to fit well with his not being in the final group this go round.
The flip side of that being, he cried on that final episode because he knew that he didn't do well in his second go around and that was his only chance to win.

[scaeagles]

Ah - indeed. That's why he was willing to pay for the title.

[Moonliner]

Ah - indeed. That's why he was willing to pay for the title.

Pay for an empty title? I don't think that's Russel'ish.

On the other hand, if he's convinced the million from this season is already in his pocket...

[Pirate Bill]

Don't forget, Stephenie spells her name wrong.

But she's still hot!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

My building excitement is evidence of my Survivor geekery. :D

[blueerica]

Don't forget, Stephenie spells her name wrong.

Is she from Utah? Har har.

I may actually tune in this time. For at least 10 minutes.

[lashbear]

Oohh - I can't wait to read what happens so I can amaze everyone here in Oz with my stunning "Precognition" as to who's first off. :D

[Moonliner]

Comments on tonight's show, spoilered for you Westies.

Stephenie: Pop and lock my little Island Goddess. Show them what tough is all about.

Heroes: Did any of you watch the other seasons? Cirie is poison on any type of puzzle. Plus am I the only one thinking they seriously put her on the wrong tribe?

Still all in all a good first choice. Buh Bye Candy.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Man, I thought having to endure coach was the worst potential of this season, but I had totally forgotten about Sugar's crying. Boy did we dodge a bullet there!

As far as I'm concerned, the heroes definitely have the smarter tribe overall. With Sugar gone, I can't think of anyone there that I'd call "dumb". Wheras I can think of 4 off the top of my head (Courtney, Randy, Sandra, Coach*) that I'd consider just a little short on brains.


*Coach is a special case. He's dumb in a whole special way. Not an idiot, but so delusional that it undermines whatever intelligence he does possess.

[lashbear]

Coach defines Narcissism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism)

[scaeagles]

Pay for an empty title? I don't think that's Russel'ish.

On the other hand, if he's convinced the million from this season is already in his pocket...

At the finale of last season he offered 100K to the winner for the title of sole survivor.

[scaeagles]

I'm surprised that there are a couple that I honestly do not remember. Both females. I can't remember their names right now to say who they are.

[Disneyphile]

Poor Sugar! :(

She and Rupert are my faves.

[Pirate Bill]

I was a fan of Sugar (despite the crying, and I cut her a lot of slack her first season). But after her comments of needing a protector and following Colby around like a cat in heat...blah. Good riddance.

[katiesue]

If you're missing Coach tickets are still avaliable for this Saturday to see "Maestro Wade" conduct the Susanville Symphony (http://www.susanvillesymphony.com/).

[Moonliner]

If you're missing Coach tickets are still avaliable for this Saturday to see "Maestro Wade" conduct the Susanville Symphony (http://www.susanvillesymphony.com/).

I'm missing Coach.

Every chance I get.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Thank god Sugar is gone. I can't stand her. So useless and pathetic. What the hell were the producers thinking?

That vote gives me even more confidence that this will be the best season ever. Get rid of the driftwood and Game On.

The teaser for next week was very unnerving...

[scaeagles]

Oh great....a spoiler. Thanks CP. Didn't we just go through this in the Lost thread?????? :)

[Stan4dSteph]

I'm always annoyed when we see all the scheming for a vote and then it ends up just going back to what we all expected anyway. WTF. Sugar was dead weight, but those who don't get rid of Cirie are doomed to be knocked off by her schemes.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm always annoyed when we see all the scheming for a vote and then it ends up just going back to what we all expected anyway. WTF. I'm sure that they talk about all possibilities every time there is a vote, and when the producers want more tension they include those conversations.

Sugar was dead weight, but those who don't get rid of Cirie are doomed to be knocked off by her schemes.There are a lot of schemers out there this time around. Sugar wasn't only dead weight, she was also a drag to be around. At this VERY early point it's crazy to think about keeping her around and risk losing both morale and challenges.

[lashbear]

I have a theory that seems to work out so far: During voting, they will show certain votes before they are tallied. The person who will be voted out that night always gets their vote shown during the process

(as a past example, in Australia, the night Jerri was to be voted out, they showed who Jerri had voted for as she was writing it down).

This helps us to guess who's really going. :D

[Ghoulish Delight]

That's not always true. The only votes they show before they are counted are ones that are not in question based on the strategy talking we've been shown through the episode. That's the only common thread through every tribal. If they've set up any doubt about how someone will vote, they won't show it. That USUALLY corresponds to them showing the person being voted out writing their vote, because it's usually very obvious who the person being voted out is going to vote for. But it's not a universal rule. The only universal rule is that they only show votes that don't give us any new information about which way the tally is going to fall before the votes are read.

[Stan4dSteph]

I'm sure that they talk about all possibilities every time there is a vote, and when the producers want more tension they include those conversations.True. I guess I'm just tired of the same old editing trick. It would be nice if they would have "deleted scenes" or something to see how it was that things went back to voting off Sugar. Most likely it was to get rid of the weakest in challenges.

I wonder how long Rupert will be able to function on that broken toe?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

If Rupert's toe is his undoing I'll be very sad.

[Moonliner]

Nooooooo!!!


Dead I tell you, Dead. The hero tribe is dead to me. May you all get sand rot in an uncomfortable part of your body.

Farewell my Island Goddess. You were taken from us all too soon.


Now, as for Boston Rob.....

Exactly how did all that play out. The camera crew stands by as they guy face plants into the jungle? Wait for Jerri to find him, shake him a time or two and then sit there filming while she runs off for help? I have to think that some of that footage was re-staged later for dramatic effect.

[mousepod]

It looked like Rob took his shoes off and laid himself down. The faceplant POV was clearly silly. I doubt that medical was more than a couple of seconds away.

Yeah... the Heroes team leaves a lot to be desired at this point. It's going to be an interesting season.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We noticed that Rob had a shirt under his head, seemed a convenient place for a shirt to fall. And Geri is a terrible actress. Definitely staged.

Stephanie needed to go. James lost it, went way too far with his reaction, but his reason was right on. Okay, not the part about her being the reason her tribe always lost, that was silly, but during that challenge, she wouldn't stop talking and she refused to accept that she was wrong. She bugged me this episode and I'm glad she's gone.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Sad to see gravedigger-with-a-heart-of-gold James suddenly lose his sh.t. He said some seriously stupid things, especially at tribal.

[scaeagles]

I'm glad she's gone too.

I, for one, thought she deserved to be told to shut up when she was leaving tribal. The rules say "leave immediately", probably to avoid stuff like that. Stephanie can't keep her mouth shut.

It's amazing how quickly the heroes are turning on one another. james is losing it, Tom tried to stand up and do the right thing in defending Stephanie but he ignored the issue to which James was referring, JT is pulling a Russell and aligning with everyone he can.....haven't really decided who I'm pulling for.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

What is with Courtney cursing people? In the first show she said Stephenie should have her shoulder pulled out, and it was. In this last ep she said that if Rob fell down dead the Villains tribe would be screwed.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The Heroes may be useless in challenges and about to come apart...but damn can they build a shelter! Did you see that thing, it was practically Gilligan's Island quality.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Gee Randy, you never felt a part of the tribe? That couldn't possibly be because you're a self-professed anti social jerk who hates all other people, now could it? Nah, clearly it's because everyone else is shallow*, you're right.


*ETA: Oh wait, right, Parvati IS Shallow.

[scaeagles]

That was a serious beat down in that challenge.

[Ghoulish Delight]

After that challenge, and James' continued stupid behavior, CP and I were discussing the idea that at some point they should have each tribe vote on which of their tribe mates was acting most like they belonged on the other tribe (i.e., Villains vote for the most heroic-acting on their tribe and Heroes vote for most villainous on theirs), and make the "winners" switch tribes.

[scaeagles]

That would be really cool. Excellent idea.

My wife and I were talking last night about other version of survivor that would be cool. We thought of a couples version, with 5 men and 5 women on each team, and their significant other on the other team. Would put a huge new strategic element into the game as far as whether or not to reveal who your partner is, how they played into strategies going into the merge, etc, etc, etc.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I like the spouses idea.

Here's another one...
Gee Randy, you never felt a part of the tribe? That couldn't possibly be because you're a self-professed anti social jerk who hates all other people, now could it? Randy's bizarreness made me think there should be an Asperger's season, where everyone has some sort of social disorder. Just throw the social game one hell of a curve. ;)

[scaeagles]

Here's another one...
Randy's bizarreness made me think there should be an Asperger's season, where everyone has some sort of social disorder. Just throw the social game one hell of a curve. ;)


I think there is a possibility of an all stars of insanity version...Randy for sure. Who was the guy who had the rock that he said was his blackberry? Could bring back the guy who gave him immunity away in the final four. Who else?

[Moonliner]

I think there is a possibility of an all stars of insanity version...Randy for sure. Who was the guy who had the rock that he said was his blackberry? Could bring back the guy who gave him immunity away in the final four. Who else?

The lady that sang survivor hyms while eveyone else was rowing for the beach. In fact I'd watch if they made a season using all the survivors voted out first on their season

[Betty]

What is with the combined immunity and reward challenges. Are they cheaping out this season by not having as many challenges?

[scaeagles]

I actually am enjoying that aspect. Allows for more of the interactions of the individuals to be shown.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The lady that sang survivor hyms while eveyone else was rowing for the beach. In fact I'd watch if they made a season using all the survivors voted out first on their seasonWhoever gets voted out first of that season would probably kill themselves.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I was starting to think the producers told Russel there wouldn't be any hidden immunity idols, because otherwise why the hell hasn't he been looking? Either that or he has been looking and they've just edited it out.

He went about that really really stupidly. But I will say, if he survives that blunder...more power to him.

[scaeagles]

I know there are Cirie fans out there, but I've never been one, and I think last night was one of the best played out strategies I've seen in a long time.

And I agree about Russell....what an idiot. He thought they wouldn't know what he was doing on his walk?

[Mousey Girl]

I liked Cirie at the start of her first season. By the end I wanted her gone. I cheered when she got voted out, I so didn't wanyt my eye candy gone (Colby).

[Ghoulish Delight]

I've been a fan of Cirie in the past, but I like JT better, and she was challenging his plan, so I'm not sorry to see her go. Good move on JT's part.

Meanwhile, Coach. Hahahah. "I'm sensitive. More sensitive than most." That's right Coach, you can't just be sensitive, you've gotta be the BEST at being sensitive. And you don't need validation from anyone...except when someone happens to say ONE bad thing about you and dares to not validate you, you freak out and cry like a baby. Yeah, totally don't need the validation there.

You want people to think of you as a sensitive person? Stop acting like a narcissistic ass!

[Stan4dSteph]

Loved the move on Cirie last night. I'm so glad JT decided to write her name down. Bold on his part, and clearly he realizes what a manipulator she is and that she would have kept doing that and picked them all off.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Cirie really blew it this time. Every time we saw her she was telling people they were dumb and ordering people around. I think she's gotten too full of herself as a player to actually play well. Bold on his part, and clearly he realizes what a manipulator she is and that she would have kept doing that and picked them all off.Agreed.

The difference in how the hidden idol clue was handled in the two tribes was very intriguing. It would be pure irony if finding the idol was Russell's undoing.

[Mousey Girl]

Did the other players get a chance to see Russel's season before this one began?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Geri said something on the first episode that seemed to indicate they had.

[Mousey Girl]

Just checking. If they had seen it then they are showing their own stupidity at not thinking he would find the idol.

To me, Coach seemed most upset that Rob had been ignoring him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't think any of them were dumb enough to think that he wouldn't try, or that no one would try. Hell, most of them, if not all of them, were probably harboring their own thoughts of looking for it in secret themselves. But Russel got such a hard-on once heard "hidden immunity" he couldn't even be bothered to be smart about looking for it. "I'm going for a walk"? Did he really expect that to fool anyone?

[Moonliner]

Geri said something on the first episode that seemed to indicate they had.

She had a general comment about the type of player he is but I don't think she/they saw his episodes otherwise the general attitude around camp would have been: Russel, what the hell did you do with the machete?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Double You Tee Eff? All that and Candace still voted Tom? Weird.

[scaeagles]

I found that strange as well.

I know many people don't watch previews, so I'll tag it -

Next week looks like some serious testosterone issues between Rob and Russell for alpha male dominance. I am trying to figure out who my money is on. Russell will play the hidden immunity idol the next time they go to tribal, but Rob will know that, so does Rob lead the vote for someone else and get Russell to play it, or does he flush it out with the vote for Russell and Russell is able to garner enough votes against Rob?

[Moonliner]

I found that strange as well.

I know many people don't watch previews, so I'll tag it -

Next week looks like some serious testosterone issues between Rob and Russell for alpha male dominance. I am trying to figure out who my money is on. Russell will play the hidden immunity idol the next time they go to tribal, but Rob will know that, so does Rob lead the vote for someone else and get Russell to play it, or does he flush it out with the vote for Russell and Russell is able to garner enough votes against Rob?

As it stands now, Only Coach seems to be backing Russel. Parv is just stringing him along to take the heat off herself. Making the odds 2 vs 7. So if the tribe (by which I mean Rob) wants Russel gone then at the next tribal they vote 4 and 3 on Russel and Parv. If Russel plays the idol he goes home the following tribal, if not then his torch get's snuffed. Russel has some serious lobbying to do before the next tribal.

Of course since the "Heros" kept hop-along there is a good chance Russel will be safe until the merge by virtue of never going back to tribal.

[Ghoulish Delight]

CP and I were discussing the Heroes' continued puzzle failures. It occurred to me, the "villains", by and large, were tagged as "villains" because they betrayed people, broke alliances, made underhanded deals. In short, they're schemers. It's really not that surprising that schemers are better at puzzles.

[Mousey Girl]

Survivor is on tonight and is being advertised as a double elimination.

[Mousey Girl]

I LOVED tonight's votes!

The look on Rob's face made the whole season worth watching.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow is Tyler a sucker. Wow.

[scaeagles]

While Tyson was gullible, i once again have to tip my hat to Russell. He knew they'd split their vote, and he knew that Tyson knew he was the target of the three on the outside. It was incredibly gutsy to play it like he did, as it was the only way he could get the outcome he desired.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Both Rob and Russel played that perfectly. Russel won the coin toss.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Rob now has some serious clout - he can point at Tyson and say "see what happens when you don't stick to the plan?" I love that the others are just pawns in the war between Russell and Rob.

[Pirate Bill]

That was awesome! Watching Rob and Russel duke it out strategically was really fun. It's like watching a fight between 2 ninjas.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Anyone else figure that the double elimination thing happened because the producers realized that there was just no other way the villains were going to go to tribal and the Rob vs. Russel showdown was too juicy to not go down?

Also, coincidence that it was a challenge where Jame's injury was a personal detriment but didn't really hurt the tribe?

I was pretty surprised that James ended up going. It seemed to me like JT and Rupert's attitude with the whole beach run thing was, "Umm, this is silly, if you say you're good you say you're good," and while he obviously wasn't full strength I thought he proved that he was mobile enough to get through a challenge. At least as well as doesn't-give-a-crap-Colby.

But major props to the heroes for sticking to Colby's advice and keeping their mouths shut during tribal. "Our strongest guy is hurt. This other guy doesn't give a sh*t anymore." Nothing that the villains didn't already know.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I have a feeling Colby is going to get worse, not better.

[scaeagles]

I didn't feel like there was any sort of conspiracy on the part of the producers as far as having two tribals. That is a pretty common occurance in past Survivor seasons.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I didn't feel like there was any sort of conspiracy on the part of the producers as far as having two tribals. That is a pretty common occurance in past Survivor seasons.
Perhaps. Of course, I consider everything that happens on the show to be a conspiracy on the part of the producers. That's what the show is, that's why it's so good. There's no doubt in my mind that they shuffle things around based on the situation. Among other things, when people go out due to injury, they are forced to change things up. If they have the ability to do that, they have the ability to change things at any time. I don't consider that a bad thing at all, it's smart producing.

And I KNEW it was weird that we saw James grabbing a banana on the way to that challenge. Never seen that before, never seen any survivor eating a banana, and yet there was a huge bunch of bananas on the tribe flag? Totally caught my eye. And totally confirmed what I had long assumed, that they're provided with some minimum amount of sustenance that we never see, and any fishing and foraging and hunting they do is bonus, the difference between maintaining healthy body function vs. having extra energy to do things.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

You sure they didn't pick the bananas themselves? I didn't see the bananas that clearly but that was my assumption.

[scaeagles]

I'm with CP....no evidence that the bananas weren't picked by the Survivors themselves.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Perhaps. But seriously, have you ever seen a banana on the show before? We see them eating all kinds of fruits and coconuts that they pick, but not once have I seen them eat a banana. And yet Amanda was talking about "banana etiquette" as if it's a common everyday thing.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

This is a guess, but I'd say that bananas are a more rare commodity. To me this is more plausible than it being "extra" food.

[Ghoulish Delight]

This is a guess, but I'd say that bananas are a more rare commodity. To me this is more plausible than it being "extra" food.If it's rare then it's even less likely that they wouldn't show it. Those people freak out with joy if they catch a 2oz. clam. But they won't show them finding a giant bunch of bananas and we wouldn't see so much as a banana peel? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Pirate Bill]

I remember a previous season where some of the survivors were upset at someone on their tribe for eating the bananas when they were still green instead of waiting for them to ripen. I don't remember which season though.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

We haven't seen much this season regarding food and food prep at all. I think that with 10 years under their belts, the producers don't want to waste time on anything unless it's a plot point.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow. So many things to say about that episode.

One, I'm more convinced than ever that the producers actively tailor the challenges to benefit one tribe over the other. The heroes got a pure physical challenge, which they've absolutely dominated (and not just because they had James, every one of the heroes had been dominant in those challenges), and then the EASIEST puzzle in the history of the show in the immunity challenge. You can hardly even call it a puzzle. It was only a puzzle if you call "here are 26 letters, alphabetize them" a puzzle. No logic involved, pure brute force. Notice there wasn't even any communication necessary between the people working on it. Just put the pieces in place. I hope they're proud of themselves for putting together a puzzle a 5 year old could handle.

I'm also more convinced than ever that Russell is not going to make it to the end. He broke Rob. Broke him good. What broke him was that Russell purely out-thought him. There was no leak, Russell just figured out Rob's game and Rob had no idea how to handle that. So why do I think that means Russell won't make it to the end? There's no way Russell breaks Rob like that, and makes it to the final jury again, and then cries and begs for the stupid title on live TV. No, he gets voted out, and the only way his ego would let him accept it was by thinking, "Well, whatever, I out played Rob and I have a million under my belt from last season. I'm the greatest survivor ever." When he found out he DIDN'T have that million under his belt, he lost it.

Coach...you're dumb. Just dumb.

But Jerri may be dumber, or that was a cruel edit. Because she looked delusional in this episode. Coach says, "I'm not pissed because you're asking me align with Russell, I'm pissed because you went and made a promise that would obligate ME without bothering to talk to me first." Jerri summarizes it as, "Coach just doesn't get it and is naive to hang on to loyalty." Err, ok. Then Rob says, "You know what the right thing to do is," clearly meaning that he thinks the smart and honorable thing to do is stick with him. She summarizes it as, "Rob said I should do whatever will keep me in the game the longest." No, that's not what he said at all. Delusional, or some serious editing, or something.

[Moonliner]

Wow. So many things to say about that episode.

One, I'm more convinced than ever that the producers actively tailor the challenges to benefit one tribe over the other. The heroes got a pure physical challenge, which they've absolutely dominated (and not just because they had James, every one of the heroes had been dominant in those challenges), and then the EASIEST puzzle in the history of the show in the immunity challenge. You can hardly even call it a puzzle. It was only a puzzle if you call "here are 26 letters, alphabetize them" a puzzle. No logic involved, pure brute force. Notice there wasn't even any communication necessary between the people working on it. Just put the pieces in place. I hope they're proud of themselves for putting together a puzzle a 5 year old could handle.

I'm also more convinced than ever that Russell is not going to make it to the end. He broke Rob. Broke him good. What broke him was that Russell purely out-thought him. There was no leak, Russell just figured out Rob's game and Rob had no idea how to handle that. So why do I think that means Russell won't make it to the end? There's no way Russell breaks Rob like that, and makes it to the final jury again, and then cries and begs for the stupid title on live TV. No, he gets voted out, and the only way his ego would let him accept it was by thinking, "Well, whatever, I out played Rob and I have a million under my belt from last season. I'm the greatest survivor ever." When he found out he DIDN'T have that million under his belt, he lost it.

Coach...you're dumb. Just dumb.

.

I Don't know, go back and look at it again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqL5rMAihc). Russell is practically laughing while he's making the offer. Russel gets quite when he's down, boisterous when he's up. I'm going to stick with my Russell goes far prediction.


Coach...you're dumb. Just dumb.

[Mousey Girl]

coach really is dumber than I originally thought. He has/had a hero worship thing with Rob. Then he goes and decided that Jerry is his showmance. I can see him being taken in by Russell, but he has seen the other 2 play.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I Don't know, go back and look at it again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqL5rMAihc). Russell is practically laughing while he's making the offer. Russel gets quite when he's down, boisterous when he's up. I'm going to stick with my Russell goes far prediction.
No way. He looks her straight in the eye and is deadly serious. You can see the earnest longing in his eyes. He is not f'n around, he's begging.

[Moonliner]

Another episode down and my boy Russell is still kicking.

If the teaser for next episode actually happens (which I'd bet heavy against) it will definitely make top 10 moments in all of survivor history.
The Hero's discuss giving Russell an immunity idol

I am somewhat concerned about the future however. The editing is showing Russell as the master manipulator, totally in control of everything... Are they building him up so his fall makes for better TV? I hope not.

It was interesting that Russell voted for Candice despite Sandra's ear-worm regarding Coach and that Coach went home despite Russell not voting for him.

[scaeagles]

And I was surprised that after Danielle threw a stink about the thought of voting out Coach that she voted for coach rather than voting for Courtney.

Now, for someone who is such a great manipulator, he sure is getting played by Sandra. Now it ended up that he didn't vote for Coach, but he still bought into what she was saying without any confirmation.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It was interesting that Russell voted for Candice despite Sandra's ear-worm regarding Coach and that Coach went home despite Russell not voting for him.
I hadn't noticed that until someone at work mentioned it. After some searching, the going theory is that he probably threw a vote Candice's way in service of the "girl alliance" ruse. That way if the Heroes learn what vote counts were, it supports their misconception. Makes sense to me.

I did like that Sandra exposed a major weakness in Russel's game. Even though she was aided by the facts that she was only sort of lying and that voting coach out fit into a larger strategy Russel had, it still makes it clear that his "don't try to get sneaky on me or you're gone" ultimatum can be used to manipulate him.

Coach, you remain dumb. Jerri, you remain dumb. Amanda, you remain smoking hot, but also remain horrible at appearing sincere while humoring someone (referring to the scene where Candice was trying to get her to turn against JT).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

There's been a lot of cold pizza served on this show over the years.

The "girl alliance" ruse reminds me of Russell's "dumb girls" strategy during last season. Even though he didn't specifically do it this time, he's always gunned for men. He's so damn smart.

I wouldn't say he fell for Sandra's misdirection because it was actually true about Coach. Sandra was just smart enough to bring it to his attention.

[Moonliner]

Huh. Well Ain't that something. I was laughing so hard I made the dogs bark upstairs. More after you westies catch up....

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Wow. JT is so.f'n.stupid. The junior high school note! I mean, "destroy this immediately after reading it"?? Wow.

Is it just me, or did they rig the challenge so that Russell would get his moments to be informed and then receive the idol? Do they usually all hug it out after a challenge like that?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm in shock at how cartoonishly stupid everyone but Russel and Parvati are. I mean, I suppose it could be "the edit", but holy hell. Really? Really?

[scaeagles]

Blink. What. An. Idiot.

Well, idiot being primarilty JT, but a collective idiot for the team, too.

Next season - Idiots vs. Strategic masters.

[Moonliner]

My boy Russell. Going strong...

So how does he portray this at the merge? Courtney was the ringleader so I voted her out? Who's going to buy that? Not to mention he still has the idol.

At least on the surface the Heroes look to have better cohesion. Sandra and Jerry would flip over to them in a heartbeat. So that could lead to some tough times ahead for the Russell three.

It's also going to bug Russell that (as far as he knows) they did not get a clue. I do wonder how much time he'll spend looking for his tribes Immunity Idol now that he knows one must be out there.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Not to mention he still has the idol.
They would know that how? I doubt he told Sandra he has it.


At least on the surface the Heroes look to have better cohesion. Sandra and Jerry would flip over to them in a heartbeat. So that could lead to some tough times ahead for the Russell three. JT and company have been so blindingly stupid that I could definitely see them saying, "Oh, those crafty girls, lying to us about Russel, trying to pretend there isn't an all girl alliance."


It's also going to bug Russell that (as far as he knows) they did not get a clue. I do wonder how much time he'll spend looking for his tribes Immunity Idol now that he knows one must be out there.As far as Russell knows, the idol handed to him is the "same" idol as the one he had Parvati play to get Tyson out. There's no reason for him to know that it's a 2nd one.

[Moonliner]

They would know that how? I doubt he told Sandra he has it.

I can't see that staying secret for long. At the very least, All the villains know there was no second idol played.

As far as Russell knows, the idol handed to him is the "same" idol as the one he had Parvati play to get Tyson out. There's no reason for him to know that it's a 2nd one.

Good point.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I can't see that staying secret for long. At the very least, All the villains know there was no second idol played. Maybe, but Sandra, and maybe Jerri, are the only ones with any reason to use that knowledge, and the heroes may very well be dumb enough to not believe them.

[Moonliner]

Are you kidding me?

Are you freaking kidding me???

I could post what happens tonight without a spoiler. There is no way you would ever believe me.

[scaeagles]

First time around, I was a big fan of his.

I now regret that I ever cheered for someone so stupid.

However, what Parvati did in protecting both was really quite brilliant.

[Moonliner]

First time around, I was a big fan of his.

I now regret that I ever cheered for someone so stupid.

However, what Parvati did in protecting both was really quite brilliant.

It was certainly surprising. However she could have let Jerri go and now be sitting with two immunity idols in her pocket.

[scaeagles]

I would suspect she bought herself a TON of loyalty from Jerri and Sandra. But I agree - it almost would have been the perfect time to flip. If she flips, votes with the heros, she's safe until there are 6 left. Win a couple immunity wins or turning them against each other and she makes it to the end.

[Moonliner]

I would suspect she bought herself a TON of loyalty from Jerri and Sandra. But I agree - it almost would have been the perfect time to flip. If she flips, votes with the heros, she's safe until there are 6 left. Win a couple immunity wins or turning them against each other and she makes it to the end.

With two immunity backing you up, it would be time to form your own alliance pulling from both sides.

As for loyalty, I would expect none of that from Sandra and not much more than lip service from Jerri. Plus Parv ticked off my boy. Statistically speaking that has not been a good move in the past...

[Moonliner]

Humm..

On the other hand, assuming Parv did not play an idol (let alone two).

The vote would have been a 5-5 tie. Jerri and JT sit out and they re-vote.

Now Parv has to worry that Sandra or Russel flip and vote her out so she would have to play one idol.

[Ghoulish Delight]

First, props to Sandra. It didn't work out thanks to the dumb she was dealing with, but she played it brilliantly, doing just enough to plant the seed without casting suspicion on herself.

Secondly...SHUT UP AMANDA! You are an atrocious liar.

As for Parvati, her only safe plays were either just playing one idol herself and chance a tie between JT and whomever the heroes ended up voting for, or do what she did. If she played the idol herself the Heroes would have been going around acting smug at their little ruse and, while she has no great loyalty to Jerri or Sandra, they are part of her existing alliance and in this game it's always safer to keep an existing alliance going as long as possible. By instead doing what she did, even with giving up both idols, she gains a lot more power. She caused the outcome of that vote, rather than the Heroes.


But now she's got to act fast because Russell will no longer trust her. She's got Danielle who will obviously do anything P tells her. Sandra will vote for Russell in a blink, and probably Jerri too. Though from the looks of the preview, Sandra might beat her to it. Parvati would probably have wanted to wait for one more vote so that if she does get Russell off, the villains would still be up 4-3. But Sandra would be fine with actually flipping.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Finally, JT gets what he has earned. F'n moron. I knew he was sexist from the moment he thought up the all-girl alliance. For him to say "never trust women" at the end of this episode was unbelievable. Number one, you are the one who screwed yourself over by giving Russell the idol for no reason other than your own mind games, and two, if you want to blame someone other than yourself, blame Russell for being a liar! I'm not one to rant in a feminist fashion, but this was the most blatant sexism I've seen on display in a long time.

All the Heroes are morons. Who's left to root for? Sandra, or Parvati perhaps, as she's more likable as a hopeful foil for Russell.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm definitely rooting for Parvati. She deserves it. If, for nothing else, not letting Russell know she had the idol. I believe that makes her the first female Survivor ever to not tell the guy she's aligned with about an idol. Bravo.

At this point, I also wouldn't mind seeing Sandra do well. Between how she and Candace handled the previous tribal council, and how she handled the merge, I've gained a lot of respect for her.

[Moonliner]

Russell gave Parv his idol. So he believed she was the target of the vote.

Parv bet her life she was not the target, and correctly surmised it would be either Sandra or Jerri.

Parv outplayed Russell every which way from Sunday and now he knows it. I'll be looking forward to seeing if that blinds him to everything else or if he can adapt and go with it for now.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Parv bet her life she was not the target, and correctly surmised it would be either Sandra or Jerri.
If by "correctly surmised" you mean "was all but explicitly told by Amanda's horrible horrible attempts at being clever." Not to take the victory away from Parvati, she acted on the knowledge perfectly, set herself up to do so by handling the idol she found perfectly, and lord knows there are people dumb enough to have not seen through Amanda, but it was definitely an advantage to have that information handed to her on a silver platter like that.

Jerri, you remain dumb.

[scaeagles]

All the Heroes are morons. Who's left to root for? Sandra, or Parvati perhaps, as she's more likable as a hopeful foil for Russell.


I don't really regard Rupert as a moron. I am pulling for him. He was a little too eager to go with JT's plot, but at least he listened to Sandra and knew it was coming.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What's bugging me about Rupert is his condescending attitude when he doesn't get his way. He's bought way too much into the "heroes and villains" crap and is acting like there are moral imperatives on the line.

Though I did like his line about people who swear on their wife and children. Historically, any deal that's based on such a "swear" has gone wrong on Survivor. Either because the person who swore didn't mean it and they took advantage of the person they swore to, or if they did mean it, the person to whom they swore just took advantage of their misplaced loyalty. Either way, it boils down to the fact that Survivor just ain't worthy swearing on the life of your family, so anyone who does is either lying, or has seriously misplaced their priorities and isn't someone you want to be committed to.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Rupert has gotten full of himself. Too many viewer's favorite votes and all-star appearances. It especially sucks because he doesn't have much to back it up with anymore.

[scaeagles]

I think almost by default anyone invited back gets full of themselves.

Has there been anyone on this season that isn't?

[Moonliner]

If by "correctly surmised" you mean "was all but explicitly told by Amanda's horrible horrible attempts at being clever." Not to take the victory away from Parvati, she acted on the knowledge perfectly, set herself up to do so by handling the idol she found perfectly, and lord knows there are people dumb enough to have not seen through Amanda, but it was definitely an advantage to have that information handed to her on a silver platter like that.

Jerri, you remain dumb.

I was looking at it from Russell's point of view, not being privy to Amanda's blabbering. Assuming he thought the vote would go against Parvati the way it all went down has to be freaking out Mr. I'm in control. It was a serious blind side to him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh totally. Like I said, I'm taking nothing away from Parvati. Much like the fact that Russell figuring out Rob's plan without needing anyone to "leak" it broke Rob, this could definitely break Russell. Actually, it's amazing how much similarity there is between the two situations, with Amanda replacing Tyson in the equation as the unwitting boob that the person taking control could take advantage of. It just goes to show that when two people are playing their best, it often comes down to luck of the draw as to who is the beneficiary of someone else's mistake.

[Moonliner]

Russell is still hanging in there. Despite several serious missteps and blunders or perhaps because of them, Russell looks to be the odds on favorite for everyone's "The guy I want next to me at final counse and the vote for $1,000,000".

My prediction: He's going all the way and will lose the tribe vote thanks to his big yapper just like last time. As I understand it, he filmed this season before the reunion show from last season. Meaning he did not have the benefit of learning from his mistake last season.

Is anyone still doubting Russell makes it to the final tribal?

[scaeagles]

It's doubtful if you ask me. It seems to me like it will be a struggle between Parvati and Russell. I think right now Parv hates him so much that she will start gunning for him. However.....if it does come down solely to who you want with you in the final, it could certainly be the case.

Will Rupert and Colby trust him again though? Don't know. I'd have to figure that Rupert and Colby would take each other to the final vote if in the final three and winning the last challange simply because they both seem like guys that would honor their commitment to each other.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I was just talking to my survivor-buddy at work and came to the same conclusion. It's occurred to me that his emotional response at the reunion show last season could definitely be interpreted as, "Holy fvck, I thought I had both of these wrapped up, now I know that people really do think I'm an asshole and don't vote for me...and I was WAY more of an asshole the second time around, I'm screwed."

Out of the six currently on the jury I can't see him getting more than 2 votes. There's no one on there that I'd say would definitely vote for him. Amanda, Danielle, and Courtney definitely would not. Between Coach, Candice, and JT, I'd put decent odds that at least two of them might come to some weird "he out played me, so he deserves it, or at least if he wins it I can say I was beaten by the best" conclusion that gets them to vote for him. Hell, if Russell ends up in the final 3 with 2 women, JT's misogyny stands a good chance of winning out. But that still leaves him in a deep hole. And of those remaining that might end up on the jury, I think the only vote he might have is Jeri. I think best case for him is 3 votes.

I just hope Parvati can hold on. No one's going to want her there in the final 3, but I think she's played the best game and deserves the win.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

If Parvati doesn't step up to Russell in the next show I'll be very disappointed. She's the only one who can take him out.

It would be pretty gratifying to see Russell go down in flames in the final tribal, but I'd rather see someone else up there. Not Colby though, please, please, not Colby.

[Moonliner]

If Parvati doesn't step up to Russell in the next show I'll be very disappointed. She's the only one who can take him out.

It would be pretty gratifying to see Russell go down in flames in the final tribal, but I'd rather see someone else up there. Not Colby though, please, please, not Colby.

After last nights show I'm thinking not Colby. I'm having trouble coming up with any scenario that does not include Parv and Russel in the final.

In the final tribal Russell will never get the votes, Colby won't be there, Jerry? She'd have to ace immunity and I don't see that happening again so I bet she joins Colby on the bench. Sandra? She could make it but would she get the votes over Parv? She's flip flopped more than Russell although in a somewhat more subtle way.

So here's my "Finals" prediction.... Russell, Parv and Sandra. Parv takes down the prize.

[scaeagles]

I find myself wanting Sandra to win it.

I used to really admire the strategy with which Russell played, and while he has always been a bully, he has digressed into that being his entire game. He claims to be the best player ever, but unless you can get the votes in the final tribal.....you can't make that claim.

Colby is weak. I found myself really irritated with how he kept yelling at his brother. If I was his brother I'd have said "screw you, Colby, lose the freaking challenge and I hope you don't win a million".

Do we know if final tribal is with 3 people? Because if it is with two, I could see Russell beating Jerry. Jerry is a flopper follower who has made no strategic moves and no one ever respects that. If it was Colby vs. Russell he'd win because of the number of heros on the jury, but unless Colby wins immunities - not likely - he is the next out.

Sandra, though....she's gained my respect. She hates Russell but doesn't fear him, and has learned to tolerate him without kissing his butt.

So if I was making odds on the overall winner....

Parv 5-2
Sandra 5-1
Russell 8-1
Jerry 10-1
Colby 30-1

[Moonliner]

Don't forget the final is tonight (Sunday). 2-Hour special.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Thanks for the reminder!

[Moonliner]

So if I was making odds on the overall winner....

Parv 5-2
Sandra 5-1
Russell 8-1
Jerry 10-1
Colby 30-1

Is it too late to get some bets down with you?

[Moonliner]

I'll wait for tomorrow to post major spoilers, but one interesting minor point.

Russell commented on his loss last season. Which means at some point they must have removed him from the game to attend the reunion and then brought him back.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Accoridng to wikipedia, this season was filmed from August-September. The finale of last season didn't air until December. So unless wiki is wrong, something doesn't add up. I think they did a pickup shot or voiceover or something for that bit.

Meanwhile

HAHAHAHAH Russel lost!! And got pwnd by Jeff. Man was it gratifying to see him fume. Yes, you payed strategically well but you were a prick about it and failed at the game. It's funny, I totally agree with what Danielle said, it IS too bad. It IS "too bad ". It's too bad that the intelligence you clearly posses is wasted on assholery.

I don't begrudge Sandra the win. She really did do the best she could with the cards she was dealt. I personally think Parvati played better, but Sandra was screwed out of being in a position to play better by the Heroes stupidity, and recognizing that was the one smart thing Russel did.

[scaeagles]

Glad Sandra won. She played tribal perfectly, I thought, in that her strategy was clearly to link Parv to Russell. While Parv played well, the fatal mistake in her game was not to eliminate Russell to show she wasn't relying on him. If she, Colby, and Sanda had taken out Russell when Colby left, I think Parv wins because she could say she used him till she was done with him, makin ghim think he was in control.

Best line was when Parv said she kept Russell as her pet. THAT was awesome.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Best line was when Parv said she kept Russell as her pet. THAT was awesome.
That was awesome, but I think it was also her undoing. Because her strategy involved maintaining the illusion that Russell was in control to keep the heat off of her, she had no real way of backing that statement up, so it just made her look like a coattail rider bluffing at behind-the-scenes strategery. She was never going to convince anyone that she was in control of Russell. Her message should have been more about what she actually did (her answer to JT was excellent) and not about trying to knock Russell down.

I don't agree that she needed to get rid of Russell, but she needed to do something to demonstrate to the cast what we knew through the confessionals. Which surely can't be easy,a nd I totally understand why Sandra got the votes over her. As a coattail rider, Sandra was more likable. And she definitely played the best "bottom rung of the dominant alliance" game ever. But I do think if everyone had been a little more aware of just how active Parvati was, she would have gotten more votes.

[Strangler Lewis]

I didn't watch the season, but how is Sandra a villain? As I recall the year she won, she mostly just sat under a tree.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, that was weird. I guess because she did some eaves-dropping in the bushes and was generally abrasive?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think we've gotten to the bottom of the "did Russel know he'd lost already" mystery.

I mentioned it to a coworker, who said he thought that there were some confessional shots in which Russell looked a little more cleaned up than others.

If you have the episode saved on your DVR or have the patience to check it out on CBS's site, go to about 1:25 in, when the final 3 receive their feast and Russell starts talking about how he made it 39 days twice.

Total green screen. No doubt about it. Really well done, if you aren't thinking about it, you'd never really notice, but it is absolutely a fake shot, recorded later.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

We checked it again and noticed that Parvati's "confessional" at that same point was also a green screen shot.

It's kind of ludicrous if you look at it - the backdrop clearly shows that they're on top of a freaking mountain with a vista of miles of ocean. No way they'd haul their asses all the way up there from the beach.

Good, we're not crazy... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-pond/did-survivor-cheat-and-ot_b_579534.html)

[Moonliner]

We checked it again and noticed that Parvati's "confessional" at that same point was also a green screen shot.

It's kind of ludicrous if you look at it - the backdrop clearly shows that they're on top of a freaking mountain with a vista of miles of ocean. No way they'd haul their asses all the way up there from the beach.

Good, we're not crazy... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-pond/did-survivor-cheat-and-ot_b_579534.html)

So the official line is, no green screen and they often have contestants answer two sides of the same question. In this case one answer for "If you won last season" and one for "If you lost last season".

I've often suspected that the "Confessionals" are somewhat scripted to build drama with the producers tossing in questions like "If you were to vote xxx why would that be?" So that the editors can make what's obviously a slam dunk vote for yyy look like it's in question.