Evangelicals raise money to counter Glenn Beck

[bewitched]

The evangelical group, The New Evangelical Partnership for the Common Good is soliciting donations to start a campaign against Glenn Beck. They feel as though he crossed the line when he said, on his radio show:

"I beg you, look for the words "social justice" or "economic justice" on your church web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, the idea, hang on, am I advising people to leave their church... yes!... If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish."

Full story. (http://www.newevangelicalpartnership.org/?q=node/30)


Hmmm, a Christian group that actually espouses the teachings of Christ? :eek:

[scaeagles]

Was Jesus into social justice?

[JWBear]

Was Jesus into social justice?

You are joking, right?

[Jazzman]

Christ was into charity and looking after your fellow man because you are compelled to out of an internal sense of goodwill. Social justice is about forcing the poor onto the wealthy and making the prosperous support the needy, free will be damned.

So no, Jesus wasn't into "social justice."

[JWBear]

Christ was into charity and looking after your fellow man because you are compelled to out of an internal sense of goodwill. Social justice is about forcing the poor onto the wealthy and making the prosperous support the needy, free will be damned.

So no, Jesus wasn't into "social justice."

Wow... Just... Wow.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm trying to figure out why the merits of government policy should be judged in any way based on sketchy, contradictory accounts, written by anonymous people (erroneously attributed to some other people) of what some guy who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago may or may not have said.

[Strangler Lewis]

Jesus taught what God expected in light of the impending end of the world.

E.g.,

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth."

Now, granted, he was talking to the poor when he said this. He probably had a different speech that he used for black tie dinners.

[scaeagles]

Wow... Just... Wow.

I happen to agree with Jazzman and I am not entirely sure what is "wow" about it. Of course if we are defining social justice in different ways then I guess I could understand it. How does one define social justice?

[BarTopDancer]

I happen to agree with Jazzman and I am not entirely sure what is "wow" about it. Of course if we are defining social justice in different ways then I guess I could understand it. How does one define social justice?

I'm trying to figure out why the merits of government policy should be judged in any way based on sketchy, contradictory accounts, written by anonymous people (erroneously attributed to some other people) of what some guy who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago may or may not have said.

The "wow" is expanded on by GD. Did you read his post?

Why don't you and Jazzman (since you seem to be the resident self proclaimed experts on what Jesus has said) expand on why the merits of government policy should be judged in any way based on sketchy, contradictory accounts, written by anonymous people (erroneously attributed to some other people) of what some guy who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago may or may not have said.

[Ghoulish Delight]

For the record, my post had nothing to do with JW's "wow". I don't care one way or the other how either JW or scaeagles or Jazzman choose to interpret what Jesus's theoretical position might have been on whatever they choose to define "social justice" as. Couldn't possibly care less.

ETA: I should add "in this context" to that. Couldn't possibly care less in this context. In another context, might be an interesting discussion.

[BarTopDancer]

Sorry GD, I scrolled so fast that I thought they were joined. My mistake.

I'd still like to hear the answer to my question though.

[Strangler Lewis]

I assume that the average Christian isn't going to accept the premise of the question.

But, if we're going to accept the accuracy of the New Testament, we should accept the accuracy of the Old Testament, which says,

"For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land." Deuteronomy 15:11.

[scaeagles]

The "wow" is expanded on by GD. Did you read his post?

Why don't you and Jazzman (since you seem to be the resident self proclaimed experts on what Jesus has said) expand on why the merits of government policy should be judged in any way based on sketchy, contradictory accounts, written by anonymous people (erroneously attributed to some other people) of what some guy who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago may or may not have said.

I didn't take what GD said as anything of the sort, so I'm glad he said that wasn't what he meant.

Self proclaimed experts? Why so harsh? I don't believe either Jazzman or I said "the rest of you are morons compared to our vast scriptural and theological knowedge". Sheesh. Get over yourself.

Strangler, look at the story of the rich young ruler. I think Jesus was preaching the same sort of things all over. For those who don't know, he told the rich young ruler to sell all he had, give the proceeds to the poor, and follow him. The purpose of that would seem to have been to show the ruler that his heart wasn't really in it (because the guy wasn't willing to do that). Jesus didn't tell everyone that, though, granted, because to some wealth isn't the most important thing (and there is nothing wrong with wealth, only if it is your top priority). Jesus usually spoke to people exactly what they needed to hear.

If saying what I've said seems to say that I am some sort of "self proclaimed expert", I apologize. I would not dare to call anyone here who offers an opinion on something a "self proclaimed expert", I would only figure they are offering their opinions as is done in pretty much every thread on this board.

[scaeagles]

I assume that the average Christian isn't going to accept the premise of the question.


In terms of accepting the premise of the question, I'll gladly do so. Something tells me though some form of long treatise on apologetics or theology isn't what anyone wants to read.

And I agree with you - Jesus was ALL about taking care of the poor and needy. Absolutely. However, it wasn't about people being forced to do so, it was about people doing it from their heart (I won't go into Old Testament law). Anyone can be forced to do something in a compulsory fashion. The true judgement of the charity of anyone is what they give that they don't have to.

[Jazzman]

The "wow" is expanded on by GD. Did you read his post?

Really?

For the record, my post had nothing to do with JW's "wow".

Why don't you and Jazzman (since you seem to be the resident self proclaimed experts on what Jesus has said) expand on why the merits of government policy should be judged in any way based on sketchy, contradictory accounts, written by anonymous people (erroneously attributed to some other people) of what some guy who may or may not have lived 2000 years ago may or may not have said.

Never said I was, or even loosely implied so. But if making false accusations and putting words in people's mouths makes you feel all warm and fuzzy up there in that ivory tower of superiority you've built for yourself, then be my guest. You clearly need something to comfort yourself with in your sad, bitter loneliness...

Why so harsh?

It's just her "thing." She reacts all hysterically and lashes out in bitterness and unsupported resentment every time I post even a single word. She needs help. :(

Jesus was ALL about taking care of the poor and needy. Absolutely. However, it wasn't about people being forced to do so, it was about people doing it from their heart (I won't go into Old Testament law). Anyone can be forced to do something in a compulsory fashion. The true judgement of the charity of anyone is what they give that they don't have to.

Nail. Head. Hit.

[Not Afraid]

WTFCWJS.

[Kevy Baby]

WTFCWJS.WWJDFAKB?

[SacTown Chronic]

You clearly need something to comfort yourself with in your sad, bitter loneliness...

*snip*


She needs help. :(Wtf, Jazzman?


Not cool, man.

[Jazzman]

Wtf, Jazzman?


Not cool, man.

If you were to log in to my profile and look at the lame, stalkerish comments she's left me, you'd know exactly Wtf, and why. Didn't want to publicly call her out, but it was overdue. Ball's in her court, now.

[Ghoulish Delight]

This thread will be parking-lot bound very shortly.

[€uroMeinke]

If you want to pick fights, may I introduce you to the Parking LoT?

[Jazzman]

Do what you must. I've said my piece. But it may help to direct the admonitions at the instigator of the bruhaha instead of the respondent. May work better.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I didn't see any admonitions directed at anyone.

[Jazzman]

My bad then. I assumed that you both were addressing me. My apologies for my misunderstanding.

[€uroMeinke]

Perhaps, but you don't need to be a dick about it

[Ghoulish Delight]

Too many cooks admins. I think € meant that response to come earlier... But take it to mean we don't particularly care to play, "But she started it!"

Anyone who posted anything with the intent of provoking someone else in this thread should consider themselves admonished.

[Not Afraid]

Hello? Did someone say Admin?

Yawn.

[€uroMeinke]

How things have changed that there be 3 moderators ADMINS WHO HAVE NO LIFE here on a Friday night

[Ghoulish Delight]

Actually, we have one MORE life, that's our problem.

[JWBear]

For the record, my "wow" response was because the term "Social Justice" was equated with "making the prosperous support the needy". Charity and looking after your fellow man are at the core of social justice!

[JWBear]

If Jesus wasn't all about social justice, then why are many many Christians publicly disagreeing with Beck? (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/us/12justice.html)

In attacking churches that espouse social justice, Mr. Beck is taking on most mainline Protestant, Roman Catholic, black and Hispanic congregations in the country — not to mention plenty of evangelical churches and even his own, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[alphabassettgrrl]

For the record, my "wow" response was because the term "Social Justice" was equated with "making the prosperous support the needy". Charity and looking after your fellow man are at the core of social justice!

I had that reaction, too. I don't agree that social justice is about forcing the rich to pay for the poor, but to work towards actual equality for all people.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I had that reaction, too. I don't agree that social justice is about forcing the rich to pay for the poor, but to work towards actual equality for all people.

No, don't you understand? Nobody is allowed to attempt to persuade someone to do anything they wouldn't naturally want to do without any persuasion. If you feel naturally inclined towards helping the poor, then, by all means. But don't you dare try to turn me into a commie socialist. FREE WILL, MUTHAFVCKAS!!!!!

[JWBear]

I had that reaction, too. I don't agree that social justice is about forcing the rich to pay for the poor, but to work towards actual equality for all people.

The problem is that many conservatives do not want everyone to have equal rights. They seem to feel that if you create a system where minorities and the poor have an equal opportunity to succeed, then you are somehow taking success away from those the "deserve" it (ie: white Anglo-Saxon males). They see success as being zero-sum.

[BarTopDancer]

WWJDFAKB?

Dance on a cracker?

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/watertiger/tumblr_kr805bOIkB1qzpi3bo1_400.gif

[Strangler Lewis]

I think this talk about free will and lack of compulsion is off the mark. Yes, as I read my Jesus, charity should, indeed, be heartfelt and, also, non-ostentatious. However, the NT is all about laying out what God expects/demands from people. Nowhere does it say that the man who forthrightly grindeth the poor under his heel has a special place in heaven because of his honesty.

[alphabassettgrrl]

They see success as being zero-sum.

I think this is a problem in a lot of interactions.

[Tref]

"We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other's happiness - not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there's room for everyone and the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone.
The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's souls - has barricaded the world with hate - has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost."


http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z1/Tref_foto/asfeasfdasf.jpg


I only wish more of my tax money went social programs. I would rather feed the poor than the war machine.

[Prudence]

Is it more important to see that those who deserve help get it or to prevent helping those who do not deserve it?

[alphabassettgrrl]

To help the deserving.

[Strangler Lewis]

As an aside:

DOOLITTLE: I ask you, what am I? I'm one of the undeserving poor: that's what I am. Think of what that means to a man. It means that he's up against middle class morality all the time. If there's anything going, and I put in for a bit of it, it's always the same story: "You're undeserving; so you can't have it." But my needs is as great as the most deserving widow's that ever got money out of six different charities in one week for the death of the same husband. I don't need less than a deserving man: I need more. I don't eat less hearty than him; and I drink a lot more. I want a bit of amusement, cause I'm a thinking man. I want cheerfulness and a song and a band when I feel low. Well, they charge me just the same for everything as they charge the deserving. What is middle class morality? Just an excuse for never giving me anything. Therefore, I ask you, as two gentlemen, not to play that game on me. I'm playing straight with you. I ain't pretending to be deserving. I'm undeserving; and I mean to go on being undeserving. I like it; and that's the truth. Will you take advantage of a man's nature to do him out of the price of his own daughter what he's brought up and fed and clothed by the sweat of his brow until she's growed big enough to be interesting to you two gentlemen? Is five pounds unreasonable? I put it to you; and I leave it to you.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I only wish more of my tax money went social programs. I would rather feed the poor than the war machine..

[Alex]

If interested in the view (from an academic Biblical history point of view, not a theological point of view) of Jesus in which he is not particularly an advocate of social justice but rather squarely in the realm of an apocalypticalist you might find last Friday's Fresh Air of interest. The whole first guest is interesting but around 20 minutes in is when this point comes up.

[Chernabog]

If it hasn't been posted earlier in this thread, here's Ebert's take on the whole thing. (http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/03/jesus_was_a_nazi_and_sos_your.html)

[bewitched]

If I've never said so...Tref, I love you.

[JWBear]

Beck has lost the on theological grounds. Apparently he is now using his resources to try and wage a smear campaign (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/burns-strider/fox-news-funds-research-a_b_504433.html) against the main pastor who rebuked him.

And so with no scriptural or theological arguments to fall back upon, Glenn Beck apparently decided that his only option is to try to destroy Rev. Wallis personally. Personal attacks aren't uncommon from partisan commentators, but what is especially troubling about this most recent development is that Glenn Beck isn't just planning to throw insults; he said that he has been using his FOX staff to research everything that Rev. Wallis has ever said or done and to dig up dirt on the people who work with the pastor.

[BarTopDancer]

I can't wait for the day Beck is caught with a wide stance in an airport restroom and/or driving drunk leaving a gay bar OR the day someone (man or woman) reveals their sexting.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

If you missed The Daily Show (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-march-18-2010-gary-locke) last night, you missed Jon Stewart's stunningly acerbic satire of Glenn Beck. You can legally watch it for free at the link above. I've been a fan of TDS/JS for years, but this just elevated him in my book of esteem.

[Ghoulish Delight]

CP and I had a discussion a few weeks ago about Beck. We admitted that we had never actually watched one of his shows, all we've seen are the most outrageous clips shown on the Daily Show, HoffPo, et. al. CP was convinced that, surely, no one would watch is show if that's ALL he did, that the majority of what he said was the sort of innocuous generic conservative cheerleader stuff. "We want less government and more free enterprise."

I was less convinced. So we made a deal. A painful painful deal. We'd watch his show for a while. We realized it was unfair to assume the worst and vilify him and his fans without knowing what he was actually saying. But I had a condition. If more than 50% of what he said was bullsh*t we could stop watching.

We turned an episode on a couple weeks ago. It wasn't a big news day, nothing specific happening to set him off. It wasn't a show that ended up with him saying something particularly noteworthy in its outrageousness. Just a middle-of-the-road episode.

We got through 5 minutes of it. He literally didn't say a single sentence in those 5 minutes that wasn't composed of half-truths, exaggerations, distortions. Not one bit of fact, all emotional b.s. "proving" his emotional b.s. point.

It actively hurt to watch. But now at least I can feel I'm justified in my horror when I hear her parents say, "You know that Glenn Beck guy, he's a lunatic...but if you really listen, there's truth in what he says." Umm, no. Quite the opposite of that. If you REALLY listen, it's nothing but lies.

[BarTopDancer]

Just because he's paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get him!

[scaeagles]

I've never listened to him (or watched him).

[JWBear]

My 86 year old mother is an avid Fox watcher. She doesn't like Beck, though. "All he does is yell and cry.", said with a dismissive wave and a disgusted look. She prefers O'Reilly.

[Strangler Lewis]

CP and I had a discussion a few weeks ago about Beck. We admitted that we had never actually watched one of his shows, all we've seen are the most outrageous clips shown on the Daily Show, HoffPo, et. al. CP was convinced that, surely, no one would watch is show if that's ALL he did, that the majority of what he said was the sort of innocuous generic conservative cheerleader stuff. "We want less government and more free enterprise."

I was less convinced. So we made a deal. A painful painful deal. We'd watch his show for a while. We realized it was unfair to assume the worst and vilify him and his fans without knowing what he was actually saying. But I had a condition. If more than 50% of what he said was bullsh*t we could stop watching.

We turned an episode on a couple weeks ago. It wasn't a big news day, nothing specific happening to set him off. It wasn't a show that ended up with him saying something particularly noteworthy in its outrageousness. Just a middle-of-the-road episode.

We got through 5 minutes of it. He literally didn't say a single sentence in those 5 minutes that wasn't composed of half-truths, exaggerations, distortions. Not one bit of fact, all emotional b.s. "proving" his emotional b.s. point.

It actively hurt to watch. But now at least I can feel I'm justified in my horror when I hear her parents say, "You know that Glenn Beck guy, he's a lunatic...but if you really listen, there's truth in what he says." Umm, no. Quite the opposite of that. If you REALLY listen, it's nothing but lies.

It could not have been otherwise. Beck and his ilk deal in political porn. Porn doesn't waste time on subtlety and plot development. It goes from money shot to money shot. Frankly, I'm quite proud of my side that Air America failed miserably.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

As an ex-conservative, I was plenty shocked that Beck really was what I thought he was. He makes O'Reilly look like a newscaster.

[Strangler Lewis]

As an ex-conservative, I was plenty shocked that Beck really was what I thought he was. He makes O'Reilly look like a newscaster.

O'Reilly is '70s porn.

[Morrigoon]

Beck and his ilk deal in political porn. Porn doesn't waste time on subtlety and plot development. It goes from money shot to money shot.
That.

[bewitched]

Now, apparently (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/87665-rep-king-r-slams-sabbath-vote), the Dems are committing a sacrilege against God:

"Here is a group of people that have so perverted our faith and our hope and our charity, that is a — this is an affront to God," Beck said.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Oops, correction, I meant to say that I was shocked that Beck really wasn't what I thought he was. Confusing, I know.

[SacTown Chronic]

Now, apparently (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/87665-rep-king-r-slams-sabbath-vote), the Dems are committing a sacrilege against God:



"But I think it’s absolutely appropriate that these people are trying to put the nail in the coffin on our country on a Sunday — something our founders would have never, ever, ever done. Out of respect for God," Beck added.I'm pretty sure that the founding fathers would be loathe to put the nail (Only one? What good is one nail in a coffin?) in this country's coffin regardless of what day it was, sh*t for brains.



Also, if you really think that health care reform will kill this country, I have a do-it-yourself tracheotomy kit I'd like to try out on you, Mr. Beck.

[SacTown Chronic]

Also, if you really think that health care reform will kill this country, I have a do-it-yourself tracheotomy kit I'd like to try out on you, Mr. Beck.That's racist!


Huh? Glenn Beck is what? Oh.


Also, if you really think that health care reform will kill this country, I have a do-it-yourself tracheotomy kit I'd like to try out on you, Mr. Beck.That's offensive!


Also, if you really think that health care reform will kill this country, I have a do-it-yourself tracheotomy kit I'd like to try out on you, Mr. Beck.That's so hot!

[Not Afraid]

I believe one of my favorite movie quotes is perfect for this occasion:

You see the whole culture. Nazis, deodorant salesmen, wrestlers, beauty contests, a talk show. Can you imagine the level of a mind that watches wrestling? But the worst are the fundamentalist preachers. Third grade con men telling the poor suckers that watch them that they speak with Jesus, and to please send in money. Money, money, money! If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up. The great Max Von Sydow as Fredrick in "Hannah and her Sisters"

[flippyshark]

I believe one of my favorite movie quotes is perfect for this occasion:

The great Max Von Sydow as Fredrick in "Hannah and her Sisters"

Great movie and awesome quote.

[€uroMeinke]

I have no clue who this person is

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh how I envy you.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I have no clue who this person is

At first I thought you were talking about Max Von Sydow,and I thought to myself, "Odd."

Then I realized that you were talking about Becky. And until 4 or 5 months ago, when his his blubbering face started to appear on the cover of everything everywhere, I was still lucky enough to believe that Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter were the worst people on teevee.

[bewitched]

At first I thought you were talking about Max Von Sydow,and I thought to myself, "Odd."

Then I realized that you were talking about Becky. And until 4 or 5 months ago, when his his blubbering face started to appear on the cover of everything everywhere, I was still lucky enough to believe that Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter were the worst people on teevee.

I dunno, Ann Coulter still might be.

[Strangler Lewis]

Has anyone ever seen Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter together?

[BarTopDancer]

They're both blonds, right?

Humm...

[Jazzman]

Has anyone ever seen Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter together?

Yep.

http://drupal.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/files/donkeys/images/FosterDonkeys.jpg

[bewitched]

My daughter's donkey, Fiona, is offended.

[Strangler Lewis]

Funny. And you can still tell she's had work done.

[Jazzman]

What's really scary is that on second look, I noticed how the jackass on the left has the exact same haircut as Beck. For realz...

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Visual Jazzman mojo for the pic cause I need to spread some more before giving him of the good stuff!