Just When You Thought It Wasn't Safe To Go Back To Arizona

[Strangler Lewis]

It still isn't. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_ethnic_studies)

While I'm generally willing to assume the worst of people, I don't lightly throw the "E" word around. But these folks are getting close to deserving it.

[innerSpaceman]

The "E" word?

Please throw it, because I don't know what word you're referring to.

[Strangler Lewis]

http://theoriginalwinger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/dr-evil.jpg

[Strangler Lewis]

Except not the funny kind.

[innerSpaceman]

I love the comments on the site about these classes trying to re-write history to present whites in a less favorable light. I suppose it's too much to hope they see the irony of those classes being devised in the first place to counter the re-writing of history BY whites that has been going on for centuries.

History is always written by the victor. Some people just don't know when victory is over. Newsflash: Arizona is native american and mexican land. Whites are occupiers.

[Alex]

I'm a little bit torn as I'm not sure how "ethnic studies" are presented in a k-12 environment versus university. I experienced a fair amount of activist bull**** (and even non-bull**** activism) in college presented as scholarship under the heading studies that I wouldn't be keen on that getting presented to middle and high school students.

But all I've heard so far today is the shouting and haven't had a chance to read any of the specifics to know exactly how I feel (definitely not keen on curriculum being set at the legislative level).

[scaeagles]

I have not read this law, but have heard interviews with the AZ state Superintendent of Public Instruction (a democrat, btw). The issue is the curriculum, which (according to him) encourages hispanic separatism, and also calls for a return of AZ (and parts of CA and New Mexico and Texas, I bleive) to return to Mexican control.

His argument is if they want to teach that, go to a private school that is not funded by AZ tax dollars. Efforts at the state level to control various aspects of the curriculum itself has been met with fierce resistance, so the alternative was to prohibit such classes all together.

Again, this is only what I've heard in interviews from him. no links, no research, no claims to have looked at the text books myself.

[innerSpaceman]

And how far away is that from the Texas government dumping any knowledge gleaned after the 18th century from their school textbooks? Slippery meet slope, if politicians determine what's taught in schools.

[Strangler Lewis]

I have not read this law, but have heard interviews with the AZ state Superintendent of Public Instruction (a democrat, btw). The issue is the curriculum, which (according to him) encourages hispanic separatism, and also calls for a return of AZ (and parts of CA and New Mexico and Texas, I bleive) to return to Mexican control.

His argument is if they want to teach that, go to a private school that is not funded by AZ tax dollars. Efforts at the state level to control various aspects of the curriculum itself has been met with fierce resistance, so the alternative was to prohibit such classes all together.

Again, this is only what I've heard in interviews from him. no links, no research, no claims to have looked at the text books myself.

By that logic, no public school could ever foster discussions critical of the county, state or federal government from which it receives funds. I think his argument is a hair's breadth away from, "You want to be a proud Mexican. Go back to Mexico."

It's less clear to me where all the people who want to be proud, unassimilated whites should go back to, but there must be somewhere.

[blueerica]

I'll be heading back to Muttland, thankyouverymuch.

[scaeagles]

I believe there is a difference between the facilitation of a discussion critical of government without the published text books advocating hispanic separatism and the return of various portions of US owned land to Mexico.

And don't you suppose politicians already decide what is taught in school? There are standards to be met, core requirements, the Superintendent is an elected position, as are school boards.

This doesn't mean I oppose what you are saying - this is one reason my kids go private. I don't want the government deciding everything they are taught. However, it seems well within the rights of government if it is government paying the bill.

[innerSpaceman]

No scaeagles, the government is not paying the bill. They are deciding where the payment goes. You and I and 3 million other Americans are paying the bill.

[scaeagles]

I think you know what I meant.....I'm sure you don't take me for someone who just thinks the government gets money out of thin air.

The government, elected by the people, taking taxes from the people, typically decides how that money is spent. Some trickles to local control, but there are always strings attached.

I do not like the system, but it is what it is, and I opt out of sending my kids through it.

[Not Afraid]

There's already been a road sign created for me.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs538.snc3/30491_384239948094_698908094_3855227_3260108_n.jpg

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, decisions as to what is to be taught has to be made somewhere along the line by politicians. However I much prefer those decisions remain in the form of "This is the bare minimum curriculum we think our students should be receiving." As opposed to, "You shall not teach these facts."

Now, that rule becomes fuzzy when you start talking indoctrination and advocacy. Like Alex, my stance on this would depend entirely on what is actually being taught in those classes. If the class curriculum is nothing more than discussion of the existence and implications of separatist movements, and happens to be populated by students that happen to sympathetic to those movements, I would be firmly against any attempt to censor. If we're talking true advocacy (which, I'll be honest, I have a hard time believing), then it's a different story.

[Gemini Cricket]

There's already been a road sign created for me.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs538.snc3/30491_384239948094_698908094_3855227_3260108_n.jpg
Ooh! I like that!:snap:

[innerSpaceman]

Sorry for my semantics, scaeagles, I couldn't resist the temptation. I get your point about school officials being elected ... but at least they are elected to supervise education. That way, theoretically at least, they can be judged on their performance in that area and can be voted out if they decide to start censoring the Russian Revolution because it might encourage antipathy towards Russians.

[Disneyphile]

*looks on a map to see if there's a Klansville, AZ*

;)

[JWBear]

I have a friend who has lived in AZ all his life. Politically he is just right of center. He just informed me that he is considering moving away from AZ as he feels the state government is getting too fascist and insane.

[Strangler Lewis]

I'm not even sure what we're talking about when we're talking about separatism, since it's kind of impossible to do. I would bet that the books actually talk about standard immigrant issues: whether, how and how much to maintain your native culture while also adapting to life in a foreign country.

[Kevy Baby]

When was it ever okay to go back to Arizona? Its frickin hot there and scaeagles lives there - why would anyone WANT to go there?

[Alex]

I was just across the street at the shopping center and a pickup was parking that was flying a pretty large Confederate flag. Not a common sight in the Bay Area, even out in the slightly more conservative edge of it.

I was just shaking my head at idiots willing to put their idiocy on display but a woman nearby did confront him about it (while a sentiment I support, an action I don't particularly condone) and he said it was to show his support of the Arizona immigration law.

I'm guessing that's not a connection that many in power there would like drawn and certainly doesn't help with the argument that the law has nothing to do with race/ethnicity.

[scaeagles]

All movements have their idiots.

And today it was only 81. Haven't even broken 100 yet. And I am on AZ tourism posters.

[Alex]

All movements have their idiots.

True, though it doesn't necessarily follow that all movements have idiots in equal proportion.

[Kevy Baby]

And today it was only 81. Haven't even broken 100 yet.Every time I go to Arizona, it is around 150 degrees.

[JWBear]

True, though it doesn't necessarily follow that all movements have idiots in equal proportion.

VAM!

[scaeagles]

And idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.

[Kevy Baby]

And idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.And on AZ tourism postersAnd I am on AZ tourism posters.

[Alex]

And idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.

True to a certain degree. But hopefully we can agree that prominent displays of affection for the Confederacy are beheld.

And to save you the trouble of coming up with a polar opposite idiocy: Che wear.

[€uroMeinke]

Ooooo - Someone needs to make a confederate Che T-shirt

[Ghoulish Delight]

And then write "Mohamed" on it.

[scaeagles]

But hopefully we can agree that prominent displays of affection for the Confederacy are beheld.

This is certainly agreed upon.

My wife has a teacher friend who moved fom AZ to Mississippi. They still refer to the civil war as "the great invasion".

[Kevy Baby]

Ooooo - Someone needs to make a confederate Che T-shirt

And then write "Mohamed" on it.Nuke the Unborn Gat Whales for Jesus