Are you an akser or a Guesser?

[Moonliner]

This is today's viral internet article...

Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/change-life-asker-guesser)


The advice of etiquette experts on dealing with unwanted invitations, or overly demanding requests for favours, has always been the same: just say no. That may have been a useless mantra in the war on drugs, but in the war on relatives who want to stay for a fortnight, or colleagues trying to get you to do their work, the manners guru Emily Post's formulation – "I'm afraid that won't be possible" – remains the gold standard. Excuses merely invite negotiation. The comic retort has its place (Peter Cook: "Oh dear, I find I'm watching television that night"), and I'm fond of the tautological non-explanation ("I can't, because I'm unable to"). But these are variations on a theme: the best way to say no is to say no. Then shut up.

This is a lesson we're unable to learn, however, judging by the scores of books promising to help us. The Power Of A Positive No, How To Say No Without Feeling Guilty, The Book Of No... Publishers, certainly, seem unable to refuse. (Two recent books addressing the topic are Marshall Goldsmith's Mojo, and Womenomics, by Claire Shipman and Katty Kay.) This is the "disease to please" – a phrase that doesn't make grammatical sense, but rhymes, giving it instant pop-psychology cachet. There are certainly profound issues here, of self-esteem, guilt etcetera. But it's also worth considering whether part of the problem doesn't originate in a simple misunderstanding between two types of people: Askers and Guessers.

This terminology comes from a brilliant web posting (http://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421) by Andrea Donderi that's achieved minor cult status online. We are raised, the theory runs, in one of two cultures. In Ask culture, people grow up believing they can ask for anything – a favour, a pay rise– fully realising the answer may be no. In Guess culture, by contrast, you avoid "putting a request into words unless you're pretty sure the answer will be yes… A key skill is putting out delicate feelers. If you do this with enough subtlety, you won't have to make the request directly; you'll get an offer. Even then, the offer may be genuine or pro forma; it takes yet more skill and delicacy to discern whether you should accept."


I'm definitely an Asker.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with the premise. Specifically the "fully realising the answer may be no" part. There are plenty of people who ask for preposterous things AND get bent out of shape when you say no.

[Alex]

Using that vocabulary, technically I'm an asker, but a lot of people might assume that I'm not in that I very rarely ask for things.

But that's simply because there isn't a lot of I want that I don't have. When I realize the want I simply ask though.

As for what GD says i'd say that's a third category (though probably violating the vocabulary of the self-help guru) of a "Demander." These are people who apparently feel that the very act of wanting something means they deserve it and therefore any denial of it is unreasonable. Sure, I can be bent out of shape but an unreasonable denial (as I was recently with an uexpected rejection of a very minor work expense that I feel put us in a bad light as a company) but I think I'm generally pretty honest about it with myself.

[Kevy Baby]

I disagree with the premise as well. To me it falls into the category of

There are two kinds of people: those who put people into one of two categories and those who don't
Sticking with the two available selections, I use both tactics. For example, when I know someone may not like performing/giving something I need from them, I put it into the form of a question in such a way that it gives that person the idea is theirs to provide it and therefor are more inclined to give. By giving them a choice, it takes away from the 'force' being imposed.

[Not Afraid]

If I realize there is a question to be asked, I have no qualms about asking it. However, I don't always realize that, what I really need to do, is ask the question.

As far as saying no and feeling guilty for it, I'm trying hard to get over that. One of the things I have been trying to do more of is to keep from getting involved with crazy-making people. I had a client who was a notorious crazy-maker. I kept my distance, despite her repeated demands for social interaction. That only made her mad (which was sad, but not really my problem). I finally put my foot down and refused to take an order from her. Two days later, she died. Not that the two were related in any way, I just felt guilty that I had taken such a hard line stance against her.

[Betty]

Just do what I say. There. Easy. ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

One thing I do agree with is the Emily Post advice. I find that the more I try to explain WHY I say no, the more people take that as an invitation to decide that my priorities are wrong and get annoyed. I try (as much as is practical) to say, "I'm so sorry, I can't," rather than detail out why.

[Betty]

One thing I do agree with is the Emily Post advice. I find that the more I try to explain WHY I say no, the more people take that as an invitation to decide that my priorities are wrong and get annoyed. I try (as much as is practical) to say, "I'm so sorry, I can't," rather than detail out why.

I agree. I have to use that with my kids - "because I said so" type of thing or they just argue. I'm afraid I learned this when my 7th grade teacher taught us how to negotiate.

In business life though - I really need to learn that phrase: I'm afraid that won't be possible.

And then shut the eff up.

[Moonliner]

How about this one:

"Where would you like to go for dinner?"

As an "asker" if I'm presented with this question I'll answer something like:
"How about Friday's?"

My wife (a guesser) on the other hand, will go to her grave before suggesting an actual restaurant. I have to go through an elaborate Q&A inquisition in order to try and deduce where she actually wants to go.

[Pirate Bill]

When I'm around a bunch of guessers I become an asker. When I'm around askers I become a guesser.

Basically, I tend to yield to the dominant type A personalities. But when everyone is a type B, elements of type A come out in me or nobody makes a decision and nothing gets done.

[flippyshark]

When I'm around a bunch of guessers I become an asker. When I'm around askers I become a guesser.

Basically, I tend to yield to the dominant type A personalities. But when everyone is a type B, elements of type A come out in me or nobody makes a decision and nothing gets done.

This sounds like me. I've gotten a lot better at saying no, I still feel a little trepidation when asking from others, but if I'm surrounded by non-deciders, I don't feel bad about making a decision. Also, I am much bolder about asking for things in a business environment than a personal one. I have a hard time getting dates because somewhere deep down I have been trained that it is an insult to ask someone out who does not already want to date you. Which is absurd.

[Deebs]

I hate the passive-aggressive asker. Over the weekend I got this text from my ex: "What time are you picking up the kids?"

I heaved a big sigh. I was hoping he'd drop them off when he was done, but I knew I wouldn't be getting that, and chose not to argue about it with him.

So then I texted back, "What time do you want them picked up?"

He sent back "7".

I sent back "K".

Why could he not just have asked that in the first place? Like, "Could you please pick the kids up at 7:00?" Just to annoy me? Good job!

[Moonliner]

I hate the passive-aggressive asker. Over the weekend I got this text from my ex: "What time are you picking up the kids?"

I heaved a big sigh. I was hoping he'd drop them off when he was done, but I knew I wouldn't be getting that, and chose not to argue about it with him.

So then I texted back, "What time do you want them picked up?"

He sent back "7".

I sent back "K".

Why could he not just have asked that in the first place? Like, "Could you please pick the kids up at 7:00?" Just to annoy me? Good job!

Because he's not an akser, he's a guesser and that's what guessers do.
The gist of the article is that they don't do it to piss off askers it's just the way they do things.

[Alex]

I may be a bit confused but I'm seeing some blurring between discussing how people make requests and how people respond to requests.

Lani is more than capable of asking for what she wants but when it comes to responding to an open ended question from me (such as "where do you want to eat") she tries to guess what I must secretly want her to say. She's not trying to manipulate me (or feel me out so I want what she wants) she's just trying to give an answer that'll make me happiest when she doesn't have a strong opinion.

Though we've had this conversation several times:

Me: "Do you want A or B"
Her: "Uh, B. Is that ok?"
Me: "If I weren't fine with B I wouldn't have given you the option."

[Ghoulish Delight]

I

Me: "Do you want A or B"
Her: "Uh, B. Is that ok?"
Me: "If I weren't fine with B I wouldn't have given you the option."
That.

And then there's the mirrored problem.

Her: "Do you want to do this chore?"
Me: "If I don't have a choice, why are you phrasing it like a question?"

I'll let you know when that exchange ends up working well for me.

ETA: Which reminds me of a good tip I picked up in my short ineffectual stint selling insurance. If you want to make it a question so that the person you're requesting something from feels like they have a choice, make sure you're actually giving them a choice, even if the essential request isn't a choice. e.g. Instead of, "When do you want to pick him up?" "Which would work better for you, picking him up at 7 or 8?"

[alphabassettgrrl]

When I'm around a bunch of guessers I become an asker. When I'm around askers I become a guesser.

Basically, I tend to yield to the dominant type A personalities. But when everyone is a type B, elements of type A come out in me or nobody makes a decision and nothing gets done.

I think I do that a lot, too.

When it's me that wants something, I'm not very good at guessing the answer I'll get so I try to do more asking than guessing. It's harder to do, but certainly more direct.

Generally I don't have a problem with saying "no" to a request but once in a while something nags at me. I don't explain my no; like others have said, there's no point. Except with a few people who actually want to know why. It's getting easier as I get older, too, to say no.

[Alex]

Her: "Do you want to do this chore?"
Me: "If I don't have a choice, why are you phrasing it like a question?"

I've mostly brought Lani around on this type of thing. She finally realized that if she says "would you do the dishes now" I will almost always happily do so (and if I don't there's probably a good reason) whereas "do you want to do the dishes" gets a "no I don't" and "would you do the dishes when you can" gets me doing them when I get around to it."

Now, the logical question is why I don't just learn to interpret "would you like to..." to mean "do...". Well, obviously it is because "would you like to..." actually means "would you like to..." and I can't reward ambiguity.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I've mostly brought Lani around on this type of thing. She finally realized that if she says "would you do the dishes now" I will almost always happily do so (and if I don't there's probably a good reason) whereas "do you want to do the dishes" gets a "no I don't" and "would you do the dishes when you can" gets me doing them when I get around to it."

Now, the logical question is why I don't just learn to interpret "would you like to..." to mean "do...". Well, obviously it is because "would you like to..." actually means "would you like to..." and I can't reward ambiguity.Do you offer seminars?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Now, the logical question is why I don't just learn to interpret "would you like to..." to mean "do...". Well, obviously it is because "would you like to..." actually means "would you like to..." and I can't reward ambiguity.You're not helping!

When I was full-on pregnant and later, fully engaged in first time mommyhood with daddy at home 24/7, I got much better at saying "could you please do this." I have slipped back into my old ways now and believe me, every time I say "Would you like to do this?" I inwardly cringe. Seems I have to really, really need something done that I really, really can't get to myself in order to ask for help directly.

Maybe if I talked slower I could force it out? I think that's how I got it happening before. "Would you...please...do this?" It's hard. I know you logical types think it's easy, but you are wrong. It means admitting that I can't get it done myself, and worrying that the other person thinks I'm lazy or leaning on them too much. After nearly 8 years of marriage you'd think I'd be over it.

A related sin - "We need to do this," along with an expectation that the other party overhearing will just get up and do it. Ugh. How I wish I didn't say that. :(

[Alex]

This sentence I wrote was missing a word:

Well, obviously it is because "would you like to..." sometimes actually means "would you like to..." and I can't reward ambiguity.If when Lani said that it never actually presented an option then I would just be a jackass for demanding that she change to my preference rather than vice versa.

Compensatory annoyance is given though since I, when talking to her (though not with anybody else) I am physically unable to say "Idaho" without pausing to say "No, you da ho." Love is finding reason to overlook the fact that the other person is really kind of douchey sometimes.

[Moonliner]

I've mostly brought Lani around on this type of thing. She finally realized that if she says "would you do the dishes now" I will almost always happily do so (and if I don't there's probably a good reason) whereas "do you want to do the dishes" gets a "no I don't" and "would you do the dishes when you can" gets me doing them when I get around to it."

Now, the logical question is why I don't just learn to interpret "would you like to..." to mean "do...". Well, obviously it is because "would you like to..." actually means "would you like to..." and I can't reward ambiguity.

When all the time what they really seem to want is the dishes to get done without any type of comment at all.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

When all the time what they really seem to want is the dishes to get done without any type of comment at all.Yes, damnit, yes! If you loved me you'd do the dishes BEFORE I have to ask!! Why don't you ever think of these things?!



Wow, I really am turning into my mother...

[Alex]

Well, that is an option easily available. She could just do the dishes. But unless there's some reason that it is clearly my responsibility to do them (such as she just cooked the dinner or they're all dirty because of something I made for myself), then at the moment she's asking we've both been equally responsible for them not yet being done. And as already mentioned, no I don't want to do the dishes.

[Alex]

Then there's also the delineations of responsibility that are reached with no overt negotiation or even acknowledgment that it has been reached.

One of these came to light a little while back. Lani does not take out the garbage, I do. She'll keep stacking stuff in the garbage can until I take it out. I do not put a new garbage bag in the garbage can, she does. Once I have taken out the garbage I will just stack garbage on the counter next to the garbage can and when she puts in a new bag she gets to move it into the garbage can.

Then one day she's putting in the new bag and says "why do I always have to put in the new garbage bag? Why don't you do that?" I thought about it for a second and said "because you probably don't know where the dumpster is."

No more was said, and we're happy with our roles.

Then there's the marital version of "he who smelt it, dealt it" which goes "if you're the one who cares, you get to do it." This is why I do the laundry. This is why she gets the car washed.

[BarTopDancer]

I think I am more of a guesser, but I can be an asker.

If I say I don't care where we go to eat, I don't care. If I have a preference, or not in the mood for something I'll speak up. Otherwise pick a place and let's go. If I'm with other people who don't care I'll pick a place or we'll spend the next hour or so deciding where to eat by virtue of I don't care, you pick. I don't care, you pick.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I just hate making decisions. It's not that I worry about pleasing everyone. I'm just a wishy-washy person. The longer the menu, the more I stare and zone out, unable to even process the options.

I always loved eating at Storytellers because there were like 3 or 4 entree options. Do I want pasta or chicken or fish or beef? Done! So much easier on my poor crappy brain.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I get aggravated when I say "I don't care" about the options and the response I get is "well, pick one". I said I don't care and I meant it. If I have a preference, I will state it. Otherwise, whatever.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm the asker, you're the guesser. I'm the asker, you're the guesser. I'm the asker, you're the guesser.

[Kevy Baby]

Love is finding reason to overlook the fact that the other person is really kind of douchey sometimes.Thank you - it has been a while since I added a quote.

[CoasterMatt]

GIMME IT! IT'S MINE!


What kind of person does that make me?

[blueerica]

Compensatory annoyance is given though since I, when talking to her (though not with anybody else) I am physically unable to say "Idaho" without pausing to say "No, you da ho." Love is finding reason to overlook the fact that the other person is really kind of douchey sometimes.

Thank you - it has been a while since I added a quote.

*sigh*

So true.

[alphabassettgrrl]

GIMME IT! IT'S MINE!


What kind of person does that make me?


Direct and to the point!

Or three years old. :)