Mortality

[€uroMeinke]

Don't mean to bring the mood down for anyone, but this topic seems to have converged on me this weekend. Yesterday I learned one of my high school acquaintances died of a heart attack, a fact made more sad as he followed his wife who died maybe a month or two ago, after a long hospital stay. So it's weird to be celebrating my 50th this year and realizing that I have a growing list of people I knew that did not make it to this point.

Add to this a recent stay at a cabin in Joshua Tree that once belonged to a ceramicist/artist, Francette, who died of cancer in France but seemingly left her place ready to return to. I blogged (http://theenlightenedhedonist.blogspot.com/)about this, and this morning I got a note from someone who knew her. It was strange to come across someone's personal artifacts and then start to put together her legacy. As far as I can tell she had no children or close relatives to take anything, and not having kids myself I wonder what odd mysterious legacy I might leave some random person to discover.

Yesterday I also listened to an old Radiolab podcast that seemed to be about the same topic, someone finding a collection of letters along a roadside and trying to reconstruct the person's life. I kind of feel I did the same thing with Francette and wonder what new light might be shed - and if she'd look upon my reconstruction with dread or fondness.

Add to the mix, tomorrow will be the first anniversary of my own mother's death. I continue to pour through her photographs and papers putting together pieces of my parents life that were unknown to me in my childhood. It's still odd to me that I can't take some of this stuff back to my mother and ask simple questions about the things I find - I can only speculate or keep digging a little deeper in hopes something will turn up to answer my questions.

THis has me thinking about what legacy I might leave, or would want to leave to someone coming across my artifacts without the benefit of having me around to ask simple questions.

Anyway, my thoughts ramble on this topic, I'm a blend of amusement and sorrow over much of this but thought I'd throw this out there for anyone else to share any post-mortum detective work they may have done, and how it changed the way it made them think of themselves.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Indeed. We're not leaving kids, either, and I kind of wonder who will be in charge of going through things. Not to mention that a lot of our lives now are digital- who will know the passwords to get into things, and close accounts, etc?

[Strangler Lewis]

Who died?

[€uroMeinke]

Chuck Kenlein

[Strangler Lewis]

That's too bad. I didn't know him that well in high school. I remember him being a presence on the listserve about our 20 year reunion. I think he may have just gotten married then, or maybe I saw that vicariously somewhere else in cyberspace. Anyway, sad all around.

[katiesue]

I've done a awful lot of postmortem detective work. Our house was full of everyone's things. My maternal grandmother bought it in 1952. Her mother in law and her mother both lived with them before they died. So some of their things ended up in the basement.

My paternal grandmother (this all gets confusing as my Dad was raised by his aunt and uncle only no one told him) died in the early 60's right after my parents got married. My grandfather then moved away so a lot of her things got stored in the basement. Some hadn't even been unpacked they were still in the original newspapers.

Then various Great Aunts and Uncles passed away. Some never had children so their things ended up in the basement as well.

We moved into the house in 1976. So lots of our things ended up down there as well. Then my Dad died in 1990. Mom went through some of it (the large porn collection was gone) but a lot of it was still there.

I spent a year going through all of their belongings. A lot of it I don't really know whose is whose. Boxes of blurry, tiny, mystery photographs. Letters from people I have no idea who they are. Little boxes of treasures that must have meant something to someone.

There were a lot of my paternal grandmothers things. All still boxed up as they were in the early 60's. It made me sad. None of her things were deemed worth enough of even taking out to look at in all that time. I found a beautiful tea set that I took home. She loved to give large parties and had an extensive collection of glasses. None of them costly crystal but I've got a few of her champagne and liqueur glasses. I'm guessing I'll never use most of this but I feel she passed in our family relatively unnoticed.

There are very few photos of my grandmother. At least that I've found so far. The ones she's in are small and she's far away. I found one portrait of her as a child and one with my grandfather when they were very young. My cousin told me it was a very unhappy marriage. I know my Dad was very spoiled being an only child. He rarely spoke of her. I'm not exactly sure what all went down when he found out she was really his Aunt, and his real parents and sisters lived one house over. Whatever it was he never spoke of it.

No one actually spoke of her much. My grandfather remarried (his high school sweetheart) and I never heard him speak of her at all. My Dad only very rarely. My great Aunts & Uncles, Cousins, all never really speak of her. I have no idea if she had any friends. I know family was very important to her. Otherwise not much else. No letters, scrap books, photo albums. I'm sure she must have possessed all of those things.

I just feel badly that she's so missing from our family. She died before I was born. I'm sure she would have been one of those grandparents that was at your house every day. At every game, play, awards ceremony. My cousin Lorena is like that. My other grandparents weren't horrible people or anything but my maternal grandfather died long before I was born, my fraternal grandfather moved away and my maternal grandmother worked, then moved when I was in 4th grade.

I think I missed out not knowing her. And with the few artifacts I've got I don't get a great sense of what she was really like. A few of my relatives that knew her don't really say much about her. It just makes me sad. And even more sad knowing that my Dad was so important to her, but seemed to have erased her. I don't know what their relationship was like in person but with how little he even mentioned her I don't think he ever got over it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

My grandmother has been ill recently (doing better now) and it's becoming very clear that we need to get her recollections recorded, as she has many stories to tell. When she passes a lot of knowledge will go with her. We must make time for this.

[Betty]

One of my largest regrets in life is not valuing the relationship with my grandfather when I was high school. We were very close when I was younger. I spent summers on their ranch. I was also close with my grandmother who died when a few years before... before he sent me a letter that I kept and forgot about. I found it again as an adult and it broke my heart when he wrote to me how lonely he was. I was so self absorbed that I couldn't see beyond my own happiness. I did not visit with my grandma enough when she was ready to die. I saw her in the hospital and she wasn't like my grandma anymore. Her red hair wasn't.

I now fear I'm going to suffer the same fate. Die alone. And lonely. I say this knowing full well I am married with a family and not alone. I don't dwell on this or anything - but maybe feel it's my fate because I didn't do better.

I have one remaining Grandma and we get together with mom and lunch a few times a month. She doesn't remember much, including that we've just had lunch, but I hope it makes her happy anyway.

Mentioned in another thread, my husband's grandma recently passed. I haven't been to a funeral like hers before - although from what I've heard from others, it's very much in line with funerals they've been to. It was open casket, with a separate service at the graveside. Then they lowered her into the ground and dumped dirt with a shovel symbolically. Then a dump truck came and filled up the hole. Seeing the roots sticking out down inside the hole made an impression in my mind.

I've never been to an open casket funeral before. It was... more upsetting than I was prepared for. We found out only moments before walking in as my mother in law warned my husband, knowing it would be a surprise.

My side of the family is more of a cremation type and buried at sea, or as my Mom recently told me, wanting to be scattered in the desert.

[Ghoulish Delight]

When my grandmother, my mother's mother, passed away in December, most of my mom's cousins came to the funeral. She grew up very close with them, spending summers living and working with them in close quarters at the family resort in South Haven Michigan. But my mom was a bit of an outsider from the group, being very much her father's daughter (i.e., less boisterous, outgoing, and generally brash). So in adulthood she was not nearly as close with them, and my sister and I grew up barely knowing them. Recently we've been reconnecting with them a little bit, and have heard some stories from the resort days, but it's still very distant from me.

Which is all a lot of background, just to bring up the video tape one of those cousins brought with him. It had video from the early 80's of my grandmother, my parents, and the cousins simply talking about the family, who was who, and some of the family history. The biggest chunk was my grandmother recounting what she could remember of her parents and grandparents and their path from Russia to here.

It was 30 minutes of magic. Particularly since my grandmother had really lost her light years and years ago, it was something else to see her alive, vibrant, an animated again

[katiesue]

Betty, open caskets are freaky. Unfortunately it's really all my family does. We even have visitation at the funeral home beforehand so everyone can pay their respects to the open casket. Ugh. Not really the way I want to remember anyone. I attempted to avoid both of my parents ones but ended up having to be there, and see them.

GD it's wonderful that you have that. I've got a few interviews some of the local historical society did with some of my relatives. Very interesting stuff.

Adding: I just realized that Maddie's never even been to a funeral. Growing up I had a lot of older relatives, great-great Aunts/Uncles, Great grandparents, family friends. There were funerals all the time. None of them were tragic deaths they were all just older people who passed away for whatever reason.

[Betty]

Which is all a lot of background, just to bring up the video tape one of those cousins brought with him. It had video from the early 80's of my grandmother, my parents, and the cousins simply talking about the family, who was who, and some of the family history. The biggest chunk was my grandmother recounting what she could remember of her parents and grandparents and their path from Russia to here.

It was 30 minutes of magic. Particularly since my grandmother had really lost her light years and years ago, it was something else to see her alive, vibrant, an animated again

It's too late for my grandma - but not for my parents. :snap:

[CoasterMatt]

I've told my family, that if they insist on an open casket, they better have me in an Oingo Boingo t-shirt and clown make up.

[Strangler Lewis]

While I can say that learning about my parents helps explain them and explain me, I can say that almost every time I learned something about my parents, I was kind of sorry that I had.

If you enjoy the concept of family secrets, I recommend the BBC miniseries from some years ago, "Almost Strangers." It's a wonderful take on the concept, and I found it much more pleasant to learn about those family secrets than my own.

[Kevy Baby]

I would like to be able to build my own casket

[Betty]

I'm not so interested in family secrets as silly family stories and special memories.

[€uroMeinke]

Thanks for sharing your stories - it's just the kind of thing I love to hear about. KatieSue - I'm digging the old family pics you've been posting on Facebook & GD - I'd love to hear your family's immigrant tale - I've got a real love of stories of traveling to new worlds and expectations. Strangler Lewis, I also dig the family secrets, the dark things sometimes parents try to keep from their kids but in the end make them more real, vulnerable, and telling.

[lashbear]

My sense of mortality came when they deliberately cut my chest open and stopped my heart.

...Luckily I got another go. I'm now taking steps to see that it wasn't all for nothing. Why did it take 20 months for me to realise this? That's crazy, isn't it? Still I guess there's many reasons why people take a long time to realise they need to stop killing themselves.

This is almost like a therapy session, so allow me a little further indulgence. I'm wondering if there's something along the lines of an Overeaters Anonymous group that doesn't have the God thing attached to it. It wouldn't work for me otherwise, cos I would feel hypocritical.

Mortality. You can't live with it, you can't live without it.

[3894]

1.The silk oriental rug, the silver, the good china, anything that might bring big money on "Antiques Roadshow" - use it, wear it out. Otherwise, it's just grave goods.

2. Leave the world more beautiful than you found it.

3. Remember 3894's Shoe Fund in your will.

[innerSpaceman]

I've spent the last several months scanning in old photos of my own, specifically 1985 to 2001 (when I went digital). It's been a very strange, mostly enjoyable, but somewhat melancholy process. Too many dead people and pets. My friend Jim, scarcely 3 months older than me, kicked the bucket not too long ago - and it's been weird seeing how dozens of photos of him have affected me now that he's dead vs. how they affected me when he was still alive during most of the tenure of this multi-year project.


Death is a drag. :(

[sleepyjeff]

Death is a drag. :(

Well put.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

2. Leave the world more beautiful than you found it.

3. Remember 3894's Shoe Fund in your will.Number three helps with number two.


Did I tell you guys that my great-grandmother Bertha married her own uncle? It was sometime in 1908 - she was 27 years old, and the uncle (Siegmund) was 41. Bertha's father passed away in Nov 1908 and by the time Bertha gave birth to my grandmother Florrie in June 1909, they had relocated to South Africa, where other family was already established.

The timing raises many more questions - perhaps her father was ailing and his unwed late-twenties daughter needed someone to take responsibility for her. According to the family tree I have, Siegmund was never married before. They only had two kids, which, even though she only started late in the game, is still weird for that generation (everyone else on the chart has many more). Who knows if that was by choice (due to lack of sexual attraction between uncle and niece, full knowledge of close relations, or Siegmund's older age) or by nature (due to close relations or Siegmund's older age). I can't help but think that Siegmund might have been gay.

It was quite a shock to find out that my maternal grandmother Florrie (who I didn't know well) was the product of such weirdness, and that my own mother didn't know about it. She says she was told that Bertha had an earlier husband who passed away so she married her husband's brother, per Jewish tradition. There's no mention of a prior marriage on the tree but it's possible too (though Siegmund was definitely her uncle). Who knows if things were purposefully confused or just muddled.

[Alex]

I have not done any postmortem detective work. When my dad died he had an active second family so it isn't like anything needed attending to by me. And I find that my theoretical relationship to death was pretty straight on.

I was sad for his suffering and for the grief of others. But I wasn't actually sad he was dead. He was alive, he's now dead. It happens to everybody. It's not joy but it doesn't bum me out either. And I find that, if anything, I have even less curiosity about his hidden (to me) life than when he was alive. The death of my great-grandmother in 1995 upset me greatly for a couple days but then it was over and I've never really looked back. I have what I had and that's enough for me. Reading a diary of her teen years wouldn't, I don't think, add anything.

I've longed joked that my life's goal is to leave no ripples. To live a life that I enjoy but that nobody else notices when it is over. To the extent my own death bothers me (and to date that isn't really much at all, though I'd prefer it be awhile) it is just again because of the extent to which it will upset other people. But the thought of passing through life, leaving no physical evidence and just memories in others seems fine to me.

I suspect that much of this is tied to being a child who could leave Christmas presents under a tree for weeks and never touch them and can now leave a fortune cookie in the restaurant unopened. Or not.

It's interesting to me in that I have what I suspect most people would consider a morbid acceptance of death but I tend to think that in so doing I've come out the other side of it without any morbidity at all. I've been lucky in that the amount of death I've experienced is relatively low, but I haven't yet, I don't think, experienced grief. At this point I suspect there's only one person who might trigger that, and both of us want to spare the other that.

Not sure what connection this has with the OP, it's just where the words took me after I started writing.

[katiesue]

My dad used to say "people croak all the time you can't get that upset about it".

I think since we lived in a small town with so many elderly relatives nearby people we knew did die all the time. Yes its sad but the world doesn't end. And the after parties at whomevers home were always fun with a billion people telling old stories and all kinds of random weird foods that people had brought.

[Morrigoon]

Thanks for sharing your stories - it's just the kind of thing I love to hear about. KatieSue - I'm digging the old family pics you've been posting on Facebook & GD - I'd love to hear your family's immigrant tale - I've got a real love of stories of traveling to new worlds and expectations. Strangler Lewis, I also dig the family secrets, the dark things sometimes parents try to keep from their kids but in the end make them more real, vulnerable, and telling.

You know that's got the making of a pretty cool thread on its own - post a pic(s) and story of a dead relative.

[Betty]

I know my family (great grandma or great great - I forget which as I only heard this story off hand and need to get all the details) was involved in bootleg liquor during prohibition. She wouldn't/couldn't tell my great grandpa when they were transporting it though because he was such a nervous nelly and couldn't tell a lie.

[€uroMeinke]

More random thoughts - and Alex I like where you've taken things so all well by this OP.

Yesterday being my mom's deathaversary I actually felt quite good about her. We had the house full of conspiring people and I made cocktails and played host as my mother would have done, serving odd liquors to unsuspecting guests - seemed I was almost channeling her and I thought she'd be rather proud of me (as well as Lisa and her new business(es)).

I like that notion of not leaving a ripple, but I realize that there is a certain ripple I do hope to leave and maybe it comes out of this post-mortum detective work, I hope to leave enough intriguing artifacts to have a stranger make up an imaginary life for me - and really I don't care much about the veracity of the tale as long as it's entertaining.

I'd also hope that the people I know will say the benefited from knowing me - and not in that feed the hungry kind of way, but rather they they engaged in some mischief they might not of otherwise, and had a good time doing so - that would give me good imaginary afterlife grin.

Thanks again for the stories I'm loving them all.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'd also hope that the people I know will say the benefited from knowing me - and not in that feed the hungry kind of way, but rather they they engaged in some mischief they might not of otherwise, and had a good time doing so - that would give me good imaginary afterlife grin.
Done and done, good sir.

My thoughts on passed loved ones always end up taking on the tinge of guilt as I am habitually bad at keeping in touch with people as much as I know I should. The full weight of my squandered opportunities to be with them, both to learn from them and to bring them happiness (if that doesn't sound too egotistical) becomes plainly apparent to me.

Not that I've managed to turn those thoughts into action in regards to those still here. Sigh.

As for my own legacy - I guess the best way I can put it is that I hope I'm remembered as someone who really wanted for nothing. Not that I don't have desires or goals, but those are just diversions to keep things interesting day-to-day. The attainment or lack of attainment of any of them have little to do with my overall satisfaction with life. As long as people remember me as content and fulfilled, I think I'm good.

[lashbear]

I'd also hope that the people I know will say that they engaged in some mischief they might not of otherwise, and had a good time doing so - that would give me good imaginary afterlife grin.
You mean like sitting with a woman in an outdoor hot-tub stark naked after a few cocktails? that kind of thing?

;)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'd also hope that the people I know will say the benefited from knowing me - and not in that feed the hungry kind of way, but rather they they engaged in some mischief they might not of otherwise, and had a good time doing so - that would give me good imaginary afterlife grin.Took the words right out of my mouth. :cheers:

As long as people remember me as content and fulfilled, I think I'm good.I think you're batting a thousand here, and if there is any deviation from your goal, it's probably due to my poor influence. You're the agreeable ying to my aggravated yang, and I'm hoping those inclinations only meld in a positive way.

When I try to think of a legacy I want to leave, I come up pretty blank. I used to feel the opposite of Alex, in that I wanted my old letters and artifacts to be obvious and embraced by others once I was gone. These days I feel most of my junk isn't necessarily interesting or worth anyone else's time.

Any journaling/emailing/etc I've done in adulthood would be pretty revelatory to others and I am on the fence as to whether that's a good or a bad thing. Yes, I'd like for a future generation to be able to get to know me and my struggles (#firstworldproblems), but perhaps reading about seriously personal issues that I have would only cause dismay or freak people out.

On the other hand, I didn't marry my uncle, and I learned my great-grandmother's news without freaking out, I just became more curious about the culture and time and lives that would produce such an odd outcome.

Perhaps my stories would have to be buried for a few generations for me to be ok with people seeing them. I'm now realizing what it means to have children and still have a private life.

[lindyhop]

I drove my dad to his brother's funeral yesterday and got to see cousins and aunts and uncles I haven't seen in decades, not just years.

My dad is the oldest of three boys and at 88 he's the healthiest of all of them. His middle brother who passed away had suffered from Parkinson's for years but had still managed to stay pretty active up until the last six months. I hadn't seen my other uncle (the youngest brother) in many years and when this doddering old couple said hello to me it was shocking. And then this other oldish guy was hugging me and I realized it was my cousin who I hadn't seen since I used to babysit his kids when they were babies which was about 35 years ago.

Good lord how did we all get so old.

It was actually a lovely funeral with a lot of family and a many friends. The couple who drove my aunt and uncle to Yuma to get married were there. That was 67 years ago, just amazing. It was so obvious that my aunt and uncle cultivated a wonderful family (9 grandchildren, 21 great-grandchildren, and a new great-great-grandchild) and made many devoted friends.

Which brings me to what I've been thinking about. I seem to have drawn the odd straw in the family. We keep to ourselves and don't have these networks in place. I hope that I can do better with my growing family and that I'll be eulogized as the fun and loving grandma and great-grandma when the time comes.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I hope that I can do better with my growing family and that I'll be eulogized as the fun and loving grandma and great-grandma when the time comes.I'm sure you will. :)

I'm curious - why do you think you aren't as involved as the rest of the family? If it's a sensitive subject, never mind.

I don't want to speak for him, but GD's mother's parents were very different people. It's amazing seeing some people very boisterous and others being very straight-laced. Even if everyone is on good terms it can be hard to feel a connection when you really don't understand each other's impulses and temperament.

On the other hand, my family is all a bunch of Alpha types that can't get along because they are too similarly stubborn and self-absorbed.

[Strangler Lewis]

We left New York in 1976, and I have relatives back east that I haven't seen since then. The others I've seen at most once or twice. Every time I've been back to New York, I've been faced with the dilemma: do I see the family? I've always opted not.

Part of the problem is that I always deferred to my parents on the issue of how much connection to maintain. If they didn't want to keep up, why should I make a big deal? Of course, part of their unwillingness to visit was financial, but part of it was due to ancient enmities. As for the east coasters' unwillingness to visit us, some of it is seriously due to the fact that there are earthquakes in California.

I have another trip coming up, this time probably only to Philadelphia but still within shouting difference. I won't be seeing the family. Fortunately, my mother understands.

[lindyhop]

I'm curious - why do you think you aren't as involved as the rest of the family? If it's a sensitive subject, never mind.

I can remember having a babysitter so my parents could go out without my sister and me exactly once. My parents didn't have a social life. In the beginning my dad's family was very close. I can remember getting together for each individual birthday. Then some of my mom's family moved to California and that split our time somewhat. And then when my older cousins got married and had families there just was no way everyone could get together even on major holidays. So that left my parents and my sister and our families and none of us have the same need to be together very much. I like not being suffocated by family but it's hard to change the habit and stay in touch with the people I want to be close to.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I can remember having a babysitter so my parents could go out without my sister and me exactly once. My parents didn't have a social life. In the beginning my dad's family was very close. I can remember getting together for each individual birthday. Then some of my mom's family moved to California and that split our time somewhat. And then when my older cousins got married and had families there just was no way everyone could get together even on major holidays. So that left my parents and my sister and our families and none of us have the same need to be together very much. I like not being suffocated by family but it's hard to change the habit and stay in touch with the people I want to be close to.My parents are similar to yours. We were almost never babysat. We did see the family a lot when I was younger but instead of distance, it was drama that drove everyone apart. I now make a point to see my grandmother, aunts/uncles and cousins at least once a season. I have to manage it on my own as my parents aren't speaking to any of them. My mom's family is all abroad so this is all we've got. My parents always secretly wanted to be isolated anyway. Driving for more than 15 min or having people over stresses them out. They are no good at social interactions. I have no idea how I got as social as I am (which is still problematic but much less so). Maybe I have more of my aunts in me than I ever thought.

[€uroMeinke]

Seems another one of my classmates passed away this weekend. Brain cancer.

Carpe diem

[Strangler Lewis]

Who?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Seems another one of my classmates passed away this weekend. Brain cancer.

Carpe diemWow. My condolences.

[€uroMeinke]

Starlynn (Bechtal) Tonkinson - she was a year ahead of us. Didn't know her all that well, but still serves as a reminder.

[Strangler Lewis]

Indeed. I don't think I knew her, but it's still sad. It's also proof that Starlyn and variations is not a good thing to be named in Tustin.