Just gave my first negative rep (on MC)

[Morrigoon]

Wow, I actually found a non-trolling post offensive enough to inspire me to hit someone with negative rep on the other board. I cannot believe what people are willing to say when discussing weight. Put any other minority name in place of "fat", and this person looks like a discriminatory a-hole, but somehow people feel that it's okay, since it's fat.

[Betty]

It's very true. It's socially acceptable discrimination and bigotry.

[Mousey Girl]

I totally agree.

[Kevy Baby]

Well, I don't hang at MC. Not because of a preference, but simply because I barely have enough time to keep up here at LoT. MC, from what I have seen and heard is an excellent board.

And while I haven't read said offending post/thread. I am sure that it deserved negative rep - if not more.

But one of the things that I enjoy about LoT is the (mostly) positive social aspect of it. While it is okay to vent about things in life - we certainly do our fair share of that here - it takes another step to vent about things on other boards. Most people on LoT also post on MC (I think), but not everyone on MC posts on LoT. I would rather not provide fodder for a potential "board war."

Thank you for listening; that is all.

[wendybeth]

I agree, KB. Offensive posts occur on just about every board, and the good thing about rep is that you can directly let someone know you don't appreciate their attitude or stance on an issue. While I haven't seen the offending post, I've a feeling that particular poster is going to get dinged more than once.

On the subject of weight, I knew once the medical community and public officials started talking about the dangers of obesity that it was sort of an open season declaration on overweight persons. Lawmakers started tossing about ideas for 'sin taxes' on junk food, with the same excuse that they used going after cigarettes and alcohol- since 'sin items' strain the medical system, they have the right to recoup losses through taxation. Now that smoking is on the decline, people feel justified in targeting overweight persons. Personally, I think it's wrong, and anyone who is crass or cruel enough to comment on anothers weight in a negative manner is nothing more than a bully, but for some reason people seem to feel that they have the right to do so.:rolleyes: When I was smoking, I always tried to be considerate of non-smokers, yet even when I was in the smoking area and abiding by all the rules there would be some asshole that would have to make a snide comment. These people don't care about your health, they merely want to put themselves up by belittling you. I quit smoking in spite of these persons, not because of them.

[Stan4dSteph]

Why are you discussing someone's behavior on MiceChat here?

[Prudence]

I shouldn't have gone to read it. I had no idea I was hated by so many people who've ever met me. Guess I won't be going to any meets should I ever happen to be in the area.

[Jazzman]

I don't see anything wrong with Morrigoon coming here to discuss with her friends something that bothered her. I didn't see her post as a "MiceChat is bad" post at all, but rather a "I can't believe some people are this arrogant. I’m offended and here is what happened that upset me," post. It just so happened to refer to an MC event, but c'est la vie.

M, I'm sorry that you had to put up with that, and I definitely support your decision to use the neg rep button. It’s too be that so many glass house dwellers have such easy access to easily flingable stones. Hang in there though; the averge person in the world no doubt doesn’t give a rip about your waist line. It’s you they like and respect, so just say "screw off" to the others and enjoy life amongst your friends.

[Monorail Man]

What it boils down to, is that MC is such a public place, that specific people could care less about what other people think, as long as they get their point across. (Just like any other public forum of communication.)

However, when you group a bunch of people who know each other (LoT), you get a respectful, well thought-out community that allows for free thinking, and you don't have to worry too much about stepping on toes, and insulting people, because you KNOW your audience. Public forums don't have that. :)

[Morrigoon]

Prudence: Please don't let that discourage you from Micechat, it was just one thread, but I was shocked at some of the responses.

Steph: brought it over here because I wanted to discuss the issue away from the board in question with my friends who might understand my position on the topic. Besides which, doing this on that board would be a public "calling out" rather than a private vent of my anger.

[Prudence]

It's probably not the best thread title. But the sentiment that stirred the ire is valid, I think. It certainly hanks my hiney that there are still any kind of blanket statements that are okay.

For this example: I work out daily. Actual sweat streaming down my face where the hell is my inhaler oh my god I can't breathe working out. I try to watch my diet as much as I can. I don't eat after 4:30pm and I don't get to bed until 11 or midnight. I'm up at 5. I eat small meals. I'm out of the house from 6:20am-9:30pm most nights and it's hard to find snacks/meals that are cheap and suitably portable. The most likely source of my inability to lose weight is that I don't get enough sleep + too much stress = cortisol packing the pounds onto my midsection as I'm clearly in some kind of crisis.

Regardless, I don't think of myself as lazy or stupid or careless. I can work, I can go to school, and I can fight my biology -- but only two out of the three at any one time. And frankly I'm astonished that there are people (and I'm generalizing to my own experience, not MC) who will say to my face that I'm obviously lazy and I must just sit around eating pizza all day because they know someone who lost a gazillion pounds on their thigh master so clearly I just lack will power and am a sub-standard human being.

You don't think I can see myself in the mirror? Why do you think I work out daily? Why do you think I starve myself on the weekends? Truthfully, if I could make myself throw up I *WOULD*. Every single day. I've tried. More times than you could possibly count.

But people are entitled to be as pigheaded as they want. Some of it is still sanctioned. (By the way -- anyone see the news article that apparently obesity isn't quite as bad as they thought? Oh, but they're not going to publicize that widely... My favorite part:In fact, people who are overweight have a lower risk of death than those of normal weight, federal researchers are reporting in an unexpected outcome to the newest and most comprehensive study of the effect of obesity. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/220826_obesity20_.html?searchpagefrom=2&searchdiff=11) )

Sure, some fat people are lazy slobs. And some [stereotyped group] are [stereotypical behavior]. Yippee. Why is any of it okay. If you're purple, what more should I know by looking at you then that you're purple? Do I automatically assume that you eat people?

And while we're covering the reasons I'm substandard, I'd like to just get them all out.

I'm female, so I'm obviously not as good with computers. [So said the hiring manager in the registrar's office when she told me that it came down to me and a guy for a secretary position, and since they needed that person to use the computer a lot (Word, for pete's sake. I've had a word processor since I was 5!) they would be more comfortable if they had a guy in the position.]

I have acne, so I clearly don't bathe; eat lots of grease; roll in a vat of chocolate twice daily; etc. [Said to me at least weekly since I was in the 4th grade.]

I wear glasses, not contacts, so I'm clearly not concerned about my appearance.

I get good grades, so I must study all the time and never have fun. [No, I'm just smarter than you, asswipe, and I got it the first time.]

Gah. I'm not supposed to post this late at night because my humors get all out of whack. LoT, meet my bile. Bile, meet LoT.

I'm sure judicious application of leeches can fix this.

[Mousey Girl]

This is why I am a closet eater. I am terrified that someone will see me eating something (anything) in public and say, "Look at that fat person eating, no wonder why she is fat." My sister would say some nasty things to me as we were growing up so most of my complex comes from childhood, but enough of it has been fed by society to keep the paranoia alive.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

This, more than anything, has furthered my confidence that my book needs to be written. Life experience of the persecuted is often swept under the rug, even though each one deserves to be told. I don't care what you think about obesity, but if you don't spend the time to talk to someone and understand their experience, you don't have any place judging them. If somebody wants to judge me after reading Yoga for Fat Girls? It's open season-- but I'll mourn the lack of compassion in that the way I mourn the lack of compassion for any minority, illness, disablility.

[SusieP.]

I get good grades, so I must study all the time and never have fun. [No, I'm just smarter than you, asswipe, and I got it the first time.]


Tee hee! You rule! :snap:

[Ghoulish Delight]

Please don't discuss other boards. This topic could have been brought up without mentioning where it took place or the specifics. Wouldn't, "What do you think about people making fun of overweight people in a post?" have started the same discussion?

[Stan4dSteph]

Please don't discuss other boards. This topic could have been brought up without mentioning where it took place or the specifics. Wouldn't, "What do you think about people making fun of overweight people in a post?" have started the same discussion?Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Not that you shouldn't bring up the topic, but that you brought the other issue here. That's often how board wars start.

I empathize with the sentiments expressed here.

[Moonliner]

Ditto. Keep it generic.







Although in a board war LoT would clearly kick their ass. :)

[scaeagles]

I have not read the thread, but the subject has come up here about discrimination and the reasons why "fat" people are belittled.

I have people in my family considered morbidly obese. One of those relatives recently underwent bariatric surgery because of all the associated health problems commonly associated with being overweight - blood sugar issues, high blood pressure, cholesterol, sleep apnea, etc, etc, etc. It is a truly amazing surgery - immediately after surgery she stopped taking those medications and her blood completely normalized. The only reason I can think of for this is that the portion of the small intenstines bypassed must not work properly. How else could the blood work normalize so quickly? I honestly think that for the most part (while there are certainly exceptions), many, many obese people suffer from a physical problem that cannot be overcome. She exercized and ate....not well, but OK, but the weight kept adding on. Genetics plays into it a lot.

Another relative, i believe, was simply lazy, and when she finally went on a low carb atkins type diet and and started exercizing, lost 70 lbs in a year and is still going.

Whatever the cause, though, it is sad that obese people are treated as they often are. I have never been obese, so I can't relate. People are people and should be treated with respect until actions may deem otherwise, not appearance.

One question, though, that was an issue not long ago in the news here in Phoenix. If someone of large size takes up two seats on an airplane, should they be expected to pay for two seats? How much should industry try to accomodate the obese? For example, I would suspect many rides at DL could not handle some larger people. Should DL be expected to accomodate? I am afraid that obesity may someday be covered under the ADA and that industry and businesses will suffer financially. Should it be considered a disability? I know for some morbidly obese people it truly is and is a physical problem outside of their control.

[Morrigoon]

My apologies for specifically mentioning another board. I only did so because I wanted to make clear that this incident had not happened on this board.

For the record, I'm a big fan of both boards and have no intention of starting a board war.

Prudence: if it weren't for the fact that that thread is falling blessedly onto lower pages, I would suggest you post your earlier sentiments on the thread itself, as you make very good points. But on the other hand, isn't it nice to see people's interest drop once people start making sweeping generalizations about a minority group?

[Morrigoon]

I take it back.... that thread's been posted to this very afternoon. Prudence, please share your eloquent thoughts!

[Mousey Girl]

One question, though, that was an issue not long ago in the news here in Phoenix. If someone of large size takes up two seats on an airplane, should they be expected to pay for two seats? How much should industry try to accomodate the obese? For example, I would suspect many rides at DL could not handle some larger people. Should DL be expected to accomodate? I am afraid that obesity may someday be covered under the ADA and that industry and businesses will suffer financially. Should it be considered a disability? I know for some morbidly obese people it truly is and is a physical problem outside of their control.

I have only been on a plane once. My hubby is a thin guy, I just put the armrest up and we had plenty of room. Even though I fit in 1 seat I would GLADLY pay for 2 if it meant more comfort for me. I have seen the ADA applied to some very heavy people at work with the purchase of special office chairs that are specifically designed for larger tushies. Luckily I am not, nor will I become, someone who needs that. I was impressed by the company purchasing those chairs (at over $500/pop). The company has since said that if someone requires a chair outside the normal ergonomic ones they provide then that person must purchase it themselves. At DLR, I know what I can and cannot ride. I know the rides that will hurt me because I am not comfy and those that will mess with my back and I simply avoid them.

The bypass surgery has been the thing to do at my work. The sad thing is out of the 10+ that have put their bodies thru that, only 3 have kept the weight off. Most are gaining it back and then some. I have thought about going that route, but for me, it isn't worth the risk. I have a Hubby who loves me, no matter what size I wear. I am more comfortable in my own skin than I have ever been in my life and David is a big reason for that. I am not saying I don't want to lose weight, but as long as I am not gaining I am happy.

[scaeagles]

The bypass surgery has been the thing to do at my work. The sad thing is out of the 10+ that have put their bodies thru that, only 3 have kept the weight off. Most are gaining it back and then some. I have thought about going that route, but for me, it isn't worth the risk.

Hope I'm not getting too personal here, but I'm curious as to your position on bariatric surgery.

Do you have any health effects associated with your weight? For example, I know that the high blood pressure and border line diabetes made the surgery worth while fo rmy relative and outweighed any risk. Also, it wasn't just a surgery....she had to sign papers committing to go through an entire program including nutritional and exercise classes, presurgical counseling, and a year of support group meetings, among other things. I think just having the surgery alone would be too scary.....the other things in the program has made it pretty successful for her thus far.

I am glad you are comfortable with yourself and that your husband loves you no matter what. It is sad that some feel the need to have surgery for a cosmetic purpose rather than a health one.

[Prudence]

Re: airplane seats

In theory, I don't have a problem with objective requirements that people be required to pay for the space they occupy.

However, my experience is that these policies are applied subjectively and frequently illustrate the biases that are the subject of this discussion.

For example: I'm short. Weight on me looks different than it does on someone taller whose butt might be just as wide as mine. But their butt "appears" smaller.

Second: My butt does fit in an airplane seat. It takes up the whole seat, I'll grant you, but it fits. (I still have a lot of muscle in my tush, so when I sit I go more "up" than "out," if that makes sense.) Meanwhile, my more normal-sized husband has room to spare in the butt, but does the guy sprawl where he is incapable of confining his legs to the the floor space aligned with his seat. It annoys me to no end and I'm married to him! I would be really ticked if he was a stranger occupying my floor space, where I was planning on putting my own feet. (But since he's my husband I just kick him!)

Third: parents aren't obligated to buy seats for kids under 2. But if that's the case, they should keep the kid in "their" space, not stick their feet in my lap because sonny boy wants to take a nap and they weren't required to buy him a seat so it's okay. Um, not with me?

If they had some kind of "butt" measure like they use for carry-ons, and if the standard was clear, I would be hard pressed to object, even if it meant I had to buy two seats. But when the standard is Joe "looks" fat and Bob, who's taller but with equal rear real estate doesn't -- and when other people are allowed to occupy more than their space for their non-obesity-related comfort -- then I object.

[Mousey Girl]

I have BP issues, mostly brought on by work stress. The people who are gaining the weight back are the ones who had it for cosmetic purposes, the ones who are keeping it off did it for medical reasons. My Dr isn't concerned with my weight and I see her every 2-3 months (she is more concerned about my mental health and work related stress and depression).

[Not Afraid]

You know, my LEGS don't fit in an airplane seat and, if my thyroid meds don't kick in soon, my butt won't either! I just need the entire plane supersized for me.

[Mousey Girl]

NA!! hehehe Luckily we flew business class, not economy. David would have had the same problem. Poor guy is allllllll legs. lol

[scaeagles]

If they had some kind of "butt" measure like they use for carry-ons, and if the standard was clear, I would be hard pressed to object

LOL! THAT would go over REALLY well!

[alphabassettgrrl]

Well, if you're going to charge someone for two seats, you'd better have *some* sort of standard in place. You can't base it on poundage, and you can't base it on a person "looking" like they'd need two seats.

Yes, I did see something about obesity not being as dangerous to health as previously thought. I was pleased that it saw some air time. I'm surprised, but that's ok. I was always told that extra pounds were bad. Apparently my information was somewhat incorrect.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Actually, if I read those results correctly, the conclusion was that it's better to be slightly overweight than slightly under weight. It's still best, in terms of health risk, to be within the "ideal" range, and being singificiantly overweight is still a considered a major health risk. But it seems that carrying a few extra pounds might not be a big deal.

[Prudence]

They also ranked it lower (than is currently asserted) on the list of things what kill you.