Happy "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" Release Day!

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Well, technically it's tomorrow at Midnight, but I'm starting this thread today in anticipation.

Assuming the book may be discussed herein, I'm guessing any interested participants will already know to use spoiler tags at ALL times, as people read at different paces, and many of you Disney/Potter fans may not even touch the book until after the 50th celebrations are over and done with.

But, I'm the geek who's going to start things off here.

Of course, since I don't have the book yet, I've got nothing.

Nothing except the raging, burning fear that any of the characters *I* love are going to buy the farm this time around. I can get over any death but that of a Weasley twin.

Or Snape. Because he's too interesting too die. At least until the next book.

And I love him. For no good reason. Possibly this reason is related to Alan Rickman. I'd like to think it has more to do with what a kind and tender soul he is. Or maybe I find greasy hair really attractive.

[Remembers every greasy head I've ever seen on public transportation, usually belonging to the homeless, shy teenaged boys, and squatter punks.]

Okay, I don't find greasy hair attractive.

But, I do love these books. So, start the gabber chatter, people.

Even YOU Tref. This thread will not be complete until you say, "I'm so excited to not care about this at all!"

[Stan4dSteph]

I have never read a Harry Potter book. I want to read them, but I have a lot of catching up to do before I can start on this one.

[Morrigoon]

I'm excited! You should have seen me running around my apartment this morning trying to find my Potter robe! My scarf I found with no problem (notwithstanding the ridiculousness of wearing a wool robe and scarf in the middle of a July heat wave). Have to take it with me today because I'm going from work directly to Wicked, directly to Barnes and Noble.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

A friend of mine, for Christmas, made me a very funny t-shirt that has a puffy paint drawing of Snape's face. It's so, so fantastic and funny. If it's a bit cooler this evening, I may even wear my Slytherin scarf. Oh, happy day!

[Mousey Girl]

I just checked amazon and my package has aready been scanned through UPS here in town, so I may get it a day early!!!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I just placed a hold on it at the library. I'm sure there'll be a copy with my name on it when I go back to work on Tuesday. And the best part is, I'm not out $30! I wouldn't have read it any earlier anyway.

Hope all you Potter-heads have a blast at your respective bookstores, and hope the book doesn't disappoint!

[dramaqueen]

I'm excited! You should have seen me running around my apartment this morning trying to find my Potter robe! My scarf I found with no problem (notwithstanding the ridiculousness of wearing a wool robe and scarf in the middle of a July heat wave). Have to take it with me today because I'm going from work directly to Wicked, directly to Barnes and Noble.

Morri- your weekend sounds just too good to be true- wicked, HP and a geekend at the park.

I am tres jealous ;)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I just placed a hold on it at the library. I'm sure there'll be a copy with my name on it when I go back to work on Tuesday. And the best part is, I'm not out $30! I wouldn't have read it any earlier anyway.

Hope all you Potter-heads have a blast at your respective bookstores, and hope the book doesn't disappoint!

$17 dude. Barnes and Noble.

Of course, I LOVE the Deluxe cover. It's beautiful. So I'll probably get that eventually, if I really like the book. I'm such a spend whore sometimes.

[Prudence]

The UPS trackers says "In transit to final destination."

And thus the waiting begins. I'm frantically reading the last chapters in my torts book so that I can devote myself to the only book that matters this weekend.

Ah, Snape. And red-headed Weasleys. Apparently EH1812 and I have the same taste in Potter men.

[Drince88]

Wow, no posts on this today - I guess everyone is reading it.

I just finished reading (I REALLY like reading young-adult fiction!). I enjoyed spending my day in England! Can't think of anything else that needs to be said, with or without spoilers.

[Prudence]

I can't read it until I finish reading about special duty rules. :( Almost done with homework. Then it's Harry Potter all the way! The book sits here taunting me.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I finished.

Spoilers AHOY!

I absolutely loved it though I'm aching. It was one of the more well written of the books. And I'm in utter turmoil now. So many wonderful things I'd love to talk about, but being a reader who's always wanted to think of Snape in a somewhat redemptive light (while realizing that he is petty, maliciuos, and often terrible to his students, etc.), I'm a bit heart broken and can seem to only focus on the "Prince" now. Man, I honestly did not see that coming, and it was quite obvious really. God. I guessed right about a lot of things in this book. I assumed Snape would be given the Defense Against the Darks Arts job, and since this book frequently brought up how no one maintained the job for more than a year (and even explained why) I figured Snape may not be long for this world, or for Hogwarts, but still...I held out hope that if he was to die or vanish, it would not be because he was an actual supporter of Voldemort's. And then Dumbledore made the remark about how he doesn't err often, but when he does, it's often a rather large mistake? Oy. OY. I feel sick to my stomach. Heidi and I had discussed what Draco was being asked to do early on and she seemed fairly certain that Draco was after Harry. I hadn't even gleamed that much from the second chapter, but when thinking about it more, it seemed just as likely that Draco would have been asked to eliminate Dumbledore - Voldemort wanting to kill Harry himself.

There is some small part of me that thinks that, based on the Spinnes End chapter, Draco's reluctance (LOVED that he was the boy crying to Myrtle in the bathroom; I'd kinda suspected as much when she started talking but I just loved it - so unexpected) to act, and Dumbledore's pleading, that Dumbledore had engineered it so that Snape, and not Draco would kill him. Dumbledore being somewhat sympathetic towards youths in position to make tragic mistakes, it almost seems like it was Dumbledore's plan all along to make sure that it was Snape who finished him off, and not a student. Snape making the unbreakable vow, when I read it, wasn't an indictment of his guilt. It seemed necessary at the time, blah...blah...blah...Rowling is so good at pulling the rug out from underneath us, it's really hard to tell when something is as it seems. We still don't really know, after all, why Dumbeldore trusted Snape implicitly. Unless it was Snape's remorse, but I was under the impression there was more to it. I could be wrong about that, but Dumbledore refused to continue talk to Harry about it so I'm not sure I'm wrong. If it's still not completely answered, we are still left to wonder: Was it really one of Dumbelore's biggest mistakes/oversights trusting Snape? Or is this really something that they knew might have to happen (Dumbledore being somewhat omniscient), and so contingency plans were made and set in motion, all of which highly incriminate Snape.

When I read Spinners End, I pretty much thought three things, and it's the same three things one has always been able to assume about Snape: He's duping Voldemort. Or he's duping Dumbledore. Or he's playing both sides equally hard, siding with whomever is victorious at the end.

Now, I'm still not sure. But the truth remains, Severus Snape just killed Albus Dumbledore. And until Book 7, it seems I'm free to speculate as much as I like still, but I don't think my curiosity about Snape will be tinged with nearly as much, um, fondness. Because, fvck, Severus Snape just killed Albus Dumbledore!

Interesting. In one feel swoop of a novel, she managed to make a very grey character (Snape) seem suddenly completely black (which, I admit, is part of what gives me up - Rowling does love a red herring....of course, the "grey" aspects of Snape could very well have been the red herring, and he really is nasty, nasty, horrible, unforgivable....oh, GOD. Rowling, you are KILLING ME HERE!). And she also managed to make a character she previously said was almost wholly insignificant and obviously evil, a bit of an interesting conflict. Draco, hell bent on impressing the most evil wizard ever (perhaps seduced by the idea that an accomplishment on his part would lessen Voldemort's anger at his father), agrees off the only wizard Voldemort ever feared...but can't. He struggles with his conscience. He strikes up a bizarre friendship with Myrtle (a "muddblood" ghost) of all people, and frequently cries. Not so much that he cared about Dumbledore as he was afraid for his own life, and the lives of his parents. But still, she's not given him depth before, and suddenly he's got depth. Though an ass he remains.

As the characters age, Rowling's writer ages and becomes more concise and complex and interesting. I'm very impressed.

And friggin' heart broken. Snape, really completely evil and unredeemable? Say it ain't so! Say it's all a sad ruse that had to happen, and Snape's still on the right sad.

Yeah. Could be Rowling just being clever.

Then again, those private moments when Harry and Snape were fighting and Snape was shouting things like, "DON'T CALL ME A COARD!" aren't exactly comforting. I was rather hoping he'd shout, "NO, HARRY. THIS IS HOW IT HAS TO BE. YOU NEVER TRY TO UNDERSTAND, YOU STUPID BOY!

I doubt interviews afterwards will be much of a help unless she responds the same way she did about Sirius' death: "Yes, he's really dead. Like, dead, not coming back to life dead." Meaning, if asked if Snape is really a black hat, I'll just have to believe her completely if she says, "I told you not to like him. Yes, he's BAD. BAD. BAD. BAD. And to drive that point home, he killed one of the most beloved characters in the book. Snape is BAD. So, fangirls, get OVER it."

Sniff. Okay. But not unless she tells me to! Heh.

And boy, she's really dragging this Ron and Hermione stuff ooooooooooooooooooooooout.

And poor loveable Ginny!

Also, I was really quietly hoping for Remus and Tonks, but thought it was just a fangirl's dream. So, crying over Dumbledore's death, I still managed a completely delightful girlish out loud SQUEE of delight over that nicely played bit. But MAN, I hope they'll be in Book 7 more.

Also, *very* intrigued by the idea that Ron, Hermione and Harry are setting off on their own at the start of Book 7. So exciting and terrifying.

Oh, and one more thing to say tonight: INFERI! ZOMBIES AT HOGWARTS! Man, my friend Mike an dI made jokes about that once. Rowling made a dream come true.

And she broke my heart. Again.

But a Weasley twin didn't die. So I don't hate her. Yet.

This, by the way, was not an attempt at an intelligent review so much as a fan's immediate and shocked response to recent events within the Potter universe. Lordy, how long until Book 7. These questiosn are going to gnaw on me. Blech.

[DisneyFan25863]

Oh. My. God.
Dumbledore did NOT just die. Snape did NOT just kill him. Harry did NOT just break up with Ginny. Harry, Hermione, and Ron did NOT just say they arn't returning to Hogwarts.

By the time I read the last word, I was crying. Yes, crying. Not because Dumbledore died. Not because Harry broke up with Ginny. Not because they arn't coming back to Hogwarts. I cried because its over. Everything has gone to hell. The 11 year old witches and wizards I was so enchanted with years ago have become battle-hardened heros, fighting for their lives at every living moment, yet still dealing with the same teenage issues I deal with everyday. Its an amazing piece of work, one of which exceeded every expectation I had.

Now, onto Harry. HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID?!?!?!? How could he go the entire year not listening to Hermione's advice about the book? How could he not ask Ginny out sooner? He was so blinded by the powers and revenge that were licking his tounge, he didn't stop to realize what he was doing.

Yeah...I'll post more rants and raves about what happened when I soak more of it in....I have much to say about Harry/Ginny...

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

It seems that many of Rowling's plot devices rely on some of her more talented and intelligent characters not using their noggin' or heeding obviously valuable advice. And I feel incredibly stupid for not even suspecting the book belonged to Snape. I allowed myself to be completely fooled by the different name. But the incredibly small scrawl that takes up any empty space on the page? A brilliant potions maker. The fact that Snape knew immediately the curse Harry had used against Malfoy? It all seems so obvious in hindsight.

And, of course, rereading certain passages and Hagrid overhearing the argument between Snape and Dumbledore? Well, it was a pretty big hint that Snape is probably an unredeemable bad guy. It sounded like a threat; that he was sick of cowing to Dumbledore's wishes. Oh....oh, le sigh. FIE!

I think what frustrates me is that I wanted Harry to be wrong about Snape every bit as much as I wanted Snape to realize he was wrong about Harry. It's a storytelling I respond to, but I suppose I'll just have to get over it.

Anyway, I was a bit frustrated that Harry would give up Ginny but still be okay with Ron and Hermione. I realize he's falling in love with Ginny but the danger is there for all of them. And it's a watery argument just like the one used by Peter Parker in Spiderman. I suppose she'd be more at risk if she were known to be Harry's girlfriend, except that's just it - Snape already knows about Ginny, I'm sure. So if she's a weakness of Harry's, and Snape really is just evil, evil, evil, Ginny's already in danger. So they might as well keep snogging, dammit.

I am in denial, I think. I start to get really depressed because I'm so attached to these characters (and, sadly, attached to certain ideas I had about one character in particular) that as soon as I allow myself to feel really upset, I change the subject in my head. And now, because I gulped this book down, I'm already antsy for the next one. And, at the same time, not looking forward to it because I cannot imagine a book without Dumbledore in it.

There was a lot more levity in this book, which was pleasing. And Harry's attitude towards the end, his not falling apart, was really well done. But, many, what a tragic loss. It's strange, though. We knew these deaths were coming, and I knew Dumbledore would die; I just figured it would happen in the next book. Heidi totally called it for this one. I think I even expected more core characters die, but I suppose having Snape kill Dumbledore is friggin' tragic enough! But nothing has quite shocked or unnerved me as much as "Kill the spare". That's where it all really began, and it just cannot be topped.

I also loved Voldemort's physical absence in this book. Constantly discussed, his past investigated via pensieve, he was stiill somehow on every page as a malignant presence. It was effectively disturbing. And dividing his soul into 7 parts? Rowling is brilliant!

[DisneyFan25863]

Ok, I was thinking about this last night. Dumbledore said earlier that he was not afraid of death, right? It was either in the 4th or 5th book, I don't quite remember. Well, if he's not afraid of death, why would he be pleading for his life? He was prepared to die, we already knew that, since he was a member of the Order. He probably, even after the potion, still had enough power left to pull one of his tricks like he did in his office before the Auror's in book 5. So WHY would he plead? To Snape, of all people?

Maybe his death was planned.

Perhaps he realized that the only way to find the locations of all the Horuxes was to have Voldemort tell him directly. And who better to tell than Snape, who is already in his inner circle. Of course, Voldemort would only tell Snape if he trusted Snape 120%. How to do this? Well, Snape would have to preform a huge duty. Either kill Dumbledore, or kill Harry.

So, I believe, Dumbledore intentionally asked Snape to kill him. He knew he was going to die, thats why he gave Harry the order to leave him behind to save himself if he had to. Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life, he was pleading to Snape to kill him. Thats why Snape didn't just kill Harry on the lawn. Thats why Snape didn't take out Hermione and Ginny and Flitwick when he had the chance.

In addition, I believe that Snape ensured Harry's position as an Auror. By making sure Harry had his copy of the potions textbook, and by leaving the post of Potions, he made sure Harry would pass his N.E.W.T.S, allowing him to become an Auror.

It's all staged, IMHO.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

So, I believe, Dumbledore intentionally asked Snape to kill him. He knew he was going to die, thats why he gave Harry the order to leave him behind to save himself if he had to. Dumbledore wasn't pleading for his life, he was pleading to Snape to kill him. Thats why Snape didn't just kill Harry on the lawn. Thats why Snape didn't take out Hermione and Ginny and Flitwick when he had the chance.

In addition, I believe that Snape ensured Harry's position as an Auror. By making sure Harry had his copy of the potions textbook, and by leaving the post of Potions, he made sure Harry would pass his N.E.W.T.S, allowing him to become an Auror.

It's all staged, IMHO.


This is, as I've stated, my hope. And you rationalize it very, very well! So you're keeping my hope alive! heh. When Harry noted the fear and concern in his plea, alarm bells rang off. When Dumbledore drank the potion in the Cave it seemed as though he drank his biggest fears, which - from the peppered dialogue - sounded like students being killed. And he was begging the murderer to take his (Dumbledore's) life and not theirs. Which made me think he was begging Snape to ensure Draco's (and the students') safety, and not his own. So in the Cave he cried out "KILL ME", and I suspect he said much the same to Snape using Legill...oh, that counterpart to Occlumency...)

I was also interested in how Snape did not attack Harry. They were alone and only within earshot of Death Eaters, and Snape essentially slapped Harry across the face when Harry called Snape a coward, but that was it. (And if Snape is good, despite all the bad he's done in his past, being called a "coward" probably would muster an angry response out of him. Most likely he knew what a coward he was to join Voldemort in the first place. If he's also, like Harry, still Dumbledore's man, that insult would burn. And enrage.)

But, going back to their fight, he simply flicks away Harry's curses with a deft move of his wrist. He does not, however, countercurse Harry. Sure, the Dark Lord wants Harry for himself, but the Dark Lord fears Death above all things, so surely he wouldn't mind if Severus left him paralyzed or essentially incapable of fighting back when Voldemort attacks. It seemed that Snape was stil protecting Harry. And even instructing him when he once again reminded Potter that he'd be incacapable of launching a real attack if he's still speaking the curses allowed. If Snape can defend himself against Harry Potter, just think what Voldemort could do. And Snape usually seems right in his assertions that Harry is not an exceptional wizard or student; he's mostly powerful because of what the Dark Lord did (and lost) when he attacked Harry as a baby. That's part of why Snape is resentful and petty. He always sought to be powerful, but was mostly just hugely intelligent and clever. Then there's Harry who is kind of an average to exceptional student, but extremely powerful. It's kinda like Mozart and Mozart's rival (who's name begins with an S, but I'm forgetting the spelling).

Snape will always hate Harry, but I suspect he's working to help him all the same. Suspect. Hope. Again. Or Snape's just EVIL! Heh.

Anyway, yeah, I think Snape could have done a lot more damage to Harry, Flitwick, Hermione, etc. I think you're totally right. There is a good chance that his killing curse was simply following Albus' instructions, and if that's the case, I cannot imagine how difficult a thing that would have been for Snape. I mean, to kill the one person in the entire world who trusts and cares about you?

And, if it was Snape's desire all along? Man, to kill the one person in the entire world who trusts and cares about you? Holy crap, dude.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

There's also this interview with Stephen Fry, though it sort of argues against our points. Oh, le sigh.

Most characters like Snape are hard to love but there is a sort of ambiguity – you can’t quite decide - something sad about him – lonely and it’s fascinating when you think he’s going to be the evil one-a-party from Voldemort obviously in the first book, then slowly you get this idea he’s not so bad after all.


JK Rowling: Yes but you shouldn’t think him too nice. It is worth keeping an eye on old Severus definitely!

[DisneyFan25863]

There's also this interview with Stephen Fry, though it sort of argues against our points. Oh, le sigh.

Most characters like Snape are hard to love but there is a sort of ambiguity – you can’t quite decide - something sad about him – lonely and it’s fascinating when you think he’s going to be the evil one-a-party from Voldemort obviously in the first book, then slowly you get this idea he’s not so bad after all.


JK Rowling: Yes but you shouldn’t think him too nice. It is worth keeping an eye on old Severus definitely!

Yeah, the one thing that doesn't fit in is the Unbreakable Vow, unless Snape KNEW he was going to have to kill Dumbledore and do all of that so far in advance, which I doubt. Thats the only thing keeping me thinking that he may actually be evil...

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Yeah, the one thing that doesn't fit in is the Unbreakable Vow, unless Snape KNEW he was going to have to kill Dumbledore and do all of that so far in advance, which I doubt. Thats the only thing keeping me thinking that he may actually be evil...

Actually, if he's good, I think he probably had to make the vow to secure his cover as a spy (remember, when first asked to make the vow, he hesitated at first, and then Lestrange was surprised when he actually did it). If he's good, everything he's done in this book was done to secure Voldemort's trust, and what better way than to make an unbreakable vow, to kill Dumbledore. If (BIG if) he's good, I assume the vow came first, and Snape immediately went to Dumbledore and said, "I've had to do this and now we have to figure out away around it. When it comes down to it, I may just have to stop Draco and let myself die." And Dumbledore might have said, "Well, there's the alternative. Save Draco, and kill me yourself. It may just benefit your place as a spy."

"But I can't do that!"

"You will do as I say. You've always promised you would."

Bah. BAH! There needs to be a fan pole. Those who say Snape is EVIL say aye, and those who think he's still working for the right say, say nay. I just...I'm torn. Obviously. Heh.

[Drince88]

I think Snape is evil and Dumbledore made one of his 'big' mistakes. The only thing is, he never did tell anyone WHY he trusted him, so I'm thinking he may have left a memory behind for Harry on that topic. Any ideas on who RAB is?

The other question I had - Bill was injured in trying to help Dumbledore, essentially. Why didn't Fawkes (the Phoenix, I may have missed a letter there) cry onto Bill's injuries?

I'm glad Fleur and Mrs. Weasly 'made up'. She'll probably help bring in the French contingent to the Order of the Phoenix. (And Mrs. Weasly needs grandkids, I think!) I think Harry was a total wimp for breaking up with Ginny, but that may be the only way that they'll be able to get back together after Voldemort has been vanquished. I just hope that the books end AFTER Voldemort's totally destroyed, and Ms. Rowling doesn't leave us hanging!

I kept waiting for Luna to have a bigger part in the overall story.

And I thought only pure-bloods could be in Slytherin house? Neither Tom Riddle nor Snape were pure bloods (mind you they weren't mudbloods, either).

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I think Snape is evil and Dumbledore made one of his 'big' mistakes. The only thing is, he never did tell anyone WHY he trusted him, so I'm thinking he may have left a memory behind for Harry on that topic. Any ideas on who RAB is?

The other question I had - Bill was injured in trying to help Dumbledore, essentially. Why didn't Fawkes (the Phoenix, I may have missed a letter there) cry onto Bill's injuries?

I'm glad Fleur and Mrs. Weasly 'made up'. She'll probably help bring in the French contingent to the Order of the Phoenix. (And Mrs. Weasly needs grandkids, I think!) I think Harry was a total wimp for breaking up with Ginny, but that may be the only way that they'll be able to get back together after Voldemort has been vanquished. I just hope that the books end AFTER Voldemort's totally destroyed, and Ms. Rowling doesn't leave us hanging!

I kept waiting for Luna to have a bigger part in the overall story.

And I thought only pure-bloods could be in Slytherin house? Neither Tom Riddle nor Snape were pure bloods (mind you they weren't mudbloods, either).

I think that werewolf inflicted injuries are incredibly difficult to treat, and a Phoenix cannot act as a cure or even a help for those particular injuries. Like a beozar, I think Phoenix's aren't a cure for all ills.

You do not have to be a pureblood to be sorted into Slytherin. Blood doesn't determine which house you get sorted into. Though, to some extend, the attiudes you have about our blood might be a factor. For example, Voldemort had quite a bit of pureblood envy. And, it seems, so did Snape.

[DisneyFan25863]

Am I the only one who thought that Crabbe and Goyle turning into 11 year old girls was a little..erm...wrong...as well? I was a little surprised at some of the content of the book, considering the audience it is intended for. (ex, Voldemort's grandfather calling his mom a slut, and all the "snogging" going around)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Am I the only one who thought that Crabbe and Goyle turning into 11 year old girls was a little..erm...wrong...as well? I was a little surprised at some of the content of the book, considering the audience it is intended for. (ex, Voldemort's grandfather calling his mom a slut, and all the "snogging" going around)

I loved that part, actually. And I thought the use of the word "slut" was sad and appalling, but appropriate. I do think, for 16 year olds, it was all fine. But many a 12 year old is reading up to this poing.

I'm not much for censorship, even for kids. Generally, I think if they can understand something, they can read about it. But the book definitely kicked things up, and it was the first time I thought, "Wow, some kids are not ready for this."

I certainly would have been totally fine and prepared to read a book like this when I was in high school.

[DisneyFan25863]

I loved that part, actually. And I thought the use of the word "slut" was sad and appalling, but appropriate. I do think, for 16 year olds, it was all fine. But many a 12 year old is reading up to this poing.

I'm not much for censorship, even for kids. Generally, I think if they can understand something, they can read about it. But the book definitely kicked things up, and it was the first time I thought, "Wow, some kids are not ready for this."

I certainly would have been totally fine and prepared to read a book like this when I was in high school.

Yeah, I was fine and dandy with it all, I hear and see much worse everyday at school. However, I think the book is a little intense for some of the kids I saw in line with me. I was surprised at the content of this book compared to the previous ones, espcially the references to flipping people off and swearing, considering this book is intended for a 10-12 year old audience.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Yeah, I was fine and dandy with it all, I hear and see much worse everyday at school. However, I think the book is a little intense for some of the kids I saw in line with me. I was surprised at the content of this book compared to the previous ones, espcially the references to flipping people off and swearing, considering this book is intended for a 10-12 year old audience.

I don't thnk these books *are* intended for a 10-12 year old audience. She ages her writing along with the Trio. I belive Book 1 was for 11 and older. And Book 3 for 13 and older. And Book 6 for 16 and older, etc. I think that's her intention. Of course it's ultimately up to the parent's, or to kids who are not allowed sneaking the book, but I do think that HBP was intended for older teens and not pre-teens.

[Prudence]

I'm only halfway through. But I just wanted to share my overwhelming excitement that there's a character with the same name as me! And spelled the same way! That never happens!

[Prudence]

It was the "Empire Strikes Back" of Potter books. I stayed up until 1:30 am this morning finishing it. (Alarm goes off at 5am, so I have a bit of a Harry Potter hangover this morning.) I don't even know what to say. I'm hoping my husband finishes it today so we can commiserate together.

I'm holding out a wee bit of hope -- Dumbledore's pleading at the end was quite out of character for him, no? I can't imagine him pleading for his life. I *can* imagine him pleading for his death. Plus, as already mentioned, there's the hint that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape has not yet been revealed.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

It was the "Empire Strikes Back" of Potter books. I stayed up until 1:30 am this morning finishing it. (Alarm goes off at 5am, so I have a bit of a Harry Potter hangover this morning.) I don't even know what to say. I'm hoping my husband finishes it today so we can commiserate together.

I'm holding out a wee bit of hope -- Dumbledore's pleading at the end was quite out of character for him, no? I can't imagine him pleading for his life. I *can* imagine him pleading for his death. Plus, as already mentioned, there's the hint that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape has not yet been revealed.

Me, too Prudence. Me, too. And I do agree with you about Dumbledore's plea. Ah, I'm grasping at any straw until I know otherwise. Of course, I've always thought she could go either way and that she's written the character so well, neither way would be a betrayal. I told myself I'd be happy with whatever she chose so long as it was well written, and I really loved the book. It *was* the Empire Strikes Back of the series, I think. Heeee. Azkaban and HPB are definitely my favorites because of how emotionally involved I was. Well, okay, I'm pretty emotionally involved in the series to a nearing unhealthy degree. But, let's ignore that. I lied to myself, because I really, really do want this to be a redemptive arc. Not just because I wanted to think better of the character, but also because the idea that a mean, crappy, bastard of a person can still do what's right. But, sadly, maybe this is a case of Snape doing what he thought was easiest...falling back into old habits, assuming he'd ever really abandoned them.

But, you're right. We still don't really know why Dumbledore trusted him. Assuming that he didn't trust him to do something awful like this. Heh.

I want to know what other little things you liked or disliked about the book, when you have time. Hermione smelling mowed grass and fresh parchment when she smelled the love potion made me SO happy. And Harry smelling something floral at the Burrow. Le sigh. Kreacher throwing a hissy fit when he had to accept Harry as his master. LOL. Sectumsemper (scary!). A cut that lasts forever...or, until the bastard who invented the spell reverses it. Draco confiding in Moaning Myrtle. God, I LOVED that. So much. Snape's filthy house, the walls lined with books and bookshelves. Oh, don't make me have to hate, hate, hate him Rowling! If he's really evil, rereading these books will be an entirely different experience. The first chapter with the Prime Minister. Fantastic!

All the Ron and Lavender snogging? Blech!

But Hermione's bird halo attacking Ron? Priceless.

[Nephythys]

Fave Ron/Hermione moment (though the birds were great) was when Ron said her name in his sleep after he had been poisoned- at least for me.
I have enjoyed reading all these because I now know I am not the only one who suspects Dumbledore would not plead for his life and therefore there must be more to this than meets the eye.
I am going to read them all at least 2 more times between now and the next book- and go a little crazy with waiting!

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Fave Ron/Hermione moment (though the birds were great) was when Ron said her name in his sleep after he had been poisoned- at least for me.
I have enjoyed reading all these because I now know I am not the only one who suspects Dumbledore would not plead for his life and therefore there must be more to this than meets the eye.
I am going to read them all at least 2 more times between now and the next book- and go a little crazy with waiting!

I will be going crazy along with you.

I LOVED that as well. Calling out her name in his sleep. Awwww.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

"Aside from higher considerations, charity often operates as a vastly wise and prudent principle - a great safeguard to its possessor. Men have committed murder for jealousy's sake, and anger's sake, and hatred's sake, and selfishness' sake, and spiritual pride's sake; but no man, that ever I heard of, ever committed a diabolical murder for sweet charity's sake. [Hence, Severus Snape is a nasty, horrible, evil no good git, and you can take that to the bank!]

I love how eloquent Melville was at the end. That's right. You heard it from Melville. And how could Melville be wrong?

(I love Bartleby, the Srivener Actually JKR reminds me of Bartleby. "I'd prefer not to give you ANY uselful information, because I'm manipulative and evil!")

[Prudence]

Ah, but does the murder in question really qualify as diabolical? If it was planned and considered necessary for final victory by the forces of good (TM) then I submit that it wasn't diabolical at all.

[Morrigoon]

I feel like I need to read the whole series over again to catch all the details that are starting to mean something

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Ah, but does the murder in question really qualify as diabolical? If it was planned and considered necessary for final victory by the forces of good (TM) then I submit that it wasn't diabolical at all.

Well, we can hope. We can hope! FYI, Mugglenet is posting a series of interviews with Rowling that are quite wonderful. Two parts have been posted thus far, and there's some really interesting, enlightening discussions.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I feel like I need to read the whole series over again to catch all the details that are starting to mean something

I've got such an extended reading list as it is, but I've started rereading them. It's the third read, and I always pick up new stuff. I forget how simple, funny and delightful the first book is. But this time I'm sleuthing my way through the series, slowly, looking for clues. Because I've gone completely mad.

[tracilicious]

I finished a few days ago, and I'm so so sad. Dumbledore is possibly my favorite character ever. Michael predicted early in the book that Dumbledore would die. I vowed that if he did I would never read another Harry Potter book again. I lied. I've restarted the series. I nearly found myself crying at Dumbledore's first start of school speech.

I expected Dumbledore to die. I just thought it would be at the end of the next book. I pictured him dying in some grand way. In a way that gave Harry a final leg up at beating Voldemort. Because, frankly, I don't know how Harry is going to do it. I don't even know how he's going to manage to get past the Horcruxes. With a lot of help from Hermione probably.

This thread has given me hope that maybe Snape isn't all bad. I had just assumed that Dumbledore was pleading for Severus to do the right thing. To make his final choice as to dark or light and to make it the right choice.

When I found out that Snape might as well have killed Harry's parents himself, I figured that perhaps he's been so horrible to Harry because he serves as a constant reminder of he had done. Though I fear I might be wrong and Snape might just be really really bad. But then I think that would make Harry right all along. And what are the chances of that? I don't buy Harry being right the whole time and Dumbledore being wrong for years.

I'm glad that JKR gave Dumbledore such a nice sendoff in this book. I loved him going to the Dursleys and telling them off. I was also glad to finally get a glimpse into how powerful he was. This is by far my favorite book for the sole reason of seeing so much of Dumbledore.

In every book I find myself thinking that if Harry had only told Dumbledore everything then disaster could be avoided. If only he had given Dumbledore the spell book maybe things would be different. Harry is such a slacker for the most part. I think I'd work a bit harder if I were to fight Voldemort.

I am sooo excited that the three are going off on their own in the next book. Should be quite intense. As for the Ginny thing, I'm glad he ended it for now. He needs to have a clear head. No distractions.

I agree that these aren't really kids books anymore. When such a large portion of her audience are adults then the books should grow with that. She always said they'd get darker.

[€uroMeinke]

Heh - I love how almost this entire thread is in spoiler tags - especially since I don't even have a copy yet.

[DisneyFan25863]

I really really really hope Hermione doesn't die in the next book, but I have a feeling she will. She will be the one to help Harry discover the Horcruxes, and Voldy may kill her off because of it. Which would suck, since she is my favorite character out of all the books..

[tracilicious]

Something just occured to me. Snape met Luna and Hermione in the hall after knocking out whoever the professor was that came to get him. If he really is a death eater, than why didn't he just kill them instead of telling them to check on the professor? Surely he would want Harry's greatest helper gone. In fact, he could have just killed the professor.

On mugglenet it lists the facts we know about books 6 and 7. One of those is that we learn more about Harry's scar. I'm thinking that maybe his scar will be the last horcrux. That would explain the transference of powers and why he can see Voldemort's thoughts. What do you think?

p.s.- Audra, I saw your Snape shirt in Rena's pictures and I must have one! Please tell me it was bought and not made!

[tracilicious]

I really really really hope Hermione doesn't die in the next book, but I have a feeling she will. She will be the one to help Harry discover the Horcruxes, and Voldy may kill her off because of it. Which would suck, since she is my favorite character out of all the books..

I don't think she does. I think all three will come very close, but I just have a feeling they'll pull through.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I'm glad that JKR gave Dumbledore such a nice sendoff in this book. I loved him going to the Dursleys and telling them off. I was also glad to finally get a glimpse into how powerful he was. This is by far my favorite book for the sole reason of seeing so much of Dumbledore.



Oh, I loved Dumbledore vs. the Dursleys. I wonder what he meant about what they had done to Dudley, though. Hmmmm.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Something just occured to me. Snape met Luna and Hermione in the hall after knocking out whoever the professor was that came to get him. If he really is a death eater, than why didn't he just kill them instead of telling them to check on the professor? Surely he would want Harry's greatest helper gone. In fact, he could have just killed the professor.

On mugglenet it lists the facts we know about books 6 and 7. One of those is that we learn more about Harry's scar. I'm thinking that maybe his scar will be the last horcrux. That would explain the transference of powers and why he can see Voldemort's thoughts. What do you think?

p.s.- Audra, I saw your Snape shirt in Rena's pictures and I must have one! Please tell me it was bought and not made!

I do think Harry is the second to last Horcrux, and that Voldemort will possibly damn himself by retrieving the Horcrux and reabsorbing that part of his soul, making him vulnerable to a deadly attack.

Remember that Hermione had taken the Felix potion, so even if Snape had attacked her, she probably would have been lucky enough to escape, and Luna by extension, since she was with Hermione. Snape not killing Flitwick seems to hint that he’s not as murderous as the book would have us think. Also, when has Snape ever ignored an opportunity to rub someone’s nose in it. If he’d really hated Dumbledore, wouldn’t he have said, “You fool, I deceived you this whole time!” Then again, there’s more sub-text defending his innocence at this point than actual text. The text is pretty damning. I’ll simply trust JKR to make it interesting, either way. One thing that’s still has me scratching my head is the argument Hagrid overheard. If Snape was really evil, why would he show any sign of wavering? Why would he tell Dumbledore that he took too much for granted?

Of course, Snape is all about acting, apparently. “I, the Half-Blood Prince, am meant for the stage!” Such a dramatic statement, that “I, the Half-Blood Prince” line. Bordered on the ridiculous. I half expected him to twirl a mustache.

If he’s evil, and Harry is a Horcrux (and Voldemort knows this), one could assume Snape was stationed at Hogwarts to protect the Horcrux, and plot against Dumbledore.

Then again, Voldemort seemed pretty intent on killing Harry in Goblet, after he did the ritual, so Harry may not be a Horcrux, or Voldemort make him one inadvertently.

Oh, the theories are driving me mad.

Also, sadly, a very close friend of mine made that for me. So it’s one of a kind!

[tracilicious]

That's true about Snape rubbing things in. Aren't death eaters all about killing? I think he would probably have killed Flitwick if he really was evil enough to cold bloodedly kill Dumbledore.

I'm almost sure that one of the Horcruxes is in the room of requirement. I think Voldie set up the meeting with Dumbledore just to get into Hogwarts too plant it there. He probably also set up the wardrobe thing.

I think Draco will play a larger role in the next book. I think he'll switch sides. The fact that he didn't like Fenrir makes me think so.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The evidence of Dumbledore "pleading for his life" is too strong. There's no way Rowling would ever make him do that. Snape is good, has to be good. Don't fret, Eliza! :)

But that begs the question - of what good is it that he's good? What can he possibly do for the good side if he's this deep under cover? He better have one hell of a redeeming moment in the last book. I'm thinking he may very well die to save Harry, in order for Harry to do away with Voldemort. Something like that.

As for Dumbledore being really dead...I think he is really dead. It took me a few books to accept that Harry's parents weren't coming back from the dead, and Rowling has always said that death is death. But he may show up as an Obi-Wan to Harry's Luke, somehow. Perhaps just through saved up Penseive memories. There's no way he's just going to go out and start finding Horcruxes, never mind destroying them, which we have no clue how to do.

Disneyfan mentions above that he was very sad about the fabulous threesome not going back to Hogwarts next year. When I read that, I was extremely excited! It's about time they had to stop worrying about classes and exams and got the hell out there to fight evil head on. Sweet. I hope the next book is excitement from cover to cover.

Other basic notes - I really liked this one. It dragged a bit for me about 1/3rd of the way through. Nothing was happening, really. The built up tension was awesome by the end though, as usual. I was reminded of the wonderfully long climax in PoA, one of my favorite parts of the whole series.

As a writer myself I was very impressed by how she introduces everything all over again and in a fresh way, and reminds us of things as we go along. Her characters are still amazingly realistic (almost frighteningly so!) and I was once again reminded that there is a reason these books are revered, even though I don't revere them nearly as much as many others do....she's very, very talented.

My one problem with her is this. Someone mentions an unfamiliar term and Harry thinks, didn't Snape mention that before? Oh yeah, this is the exact sentence that Snape said, one time, 5 years ago. :rolleyes: Even a kid will see how dumb that is, and like Eliza pointed out, these are no longer kid's books anyway.

[DisneyFan25863]

As for Dumbledore being really dead...I think he is really dead. It took me a few books to accept that Harry's parents weren't coming back from the dead, and Rowling has always said that death is death. But he may show up as an Obi-Wan to Harry's Luke, somehow. Perhaps just through saved up Penseive memories. There's no way he's just going to go out and start finding Horcruxes, never mind destroying them, which we have no clue how to do.



I was thinking it was going to be his portrait....the pensive was a little overused in this book, IMO, and something fresh should be introduced.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I was thinking it was going to be his portrait....the pensive was a little overused in this book, IMO, and something fresh should be introduced.Agreed.

Oh, and I too am a bit annoyed that Harry keeps drifting along through school, using all kinds of cheats. He doesn't have to be as brilliant as Hermione, but jeez, can he at least earn normal grades on his own? It's the one trait I do not like about Harry.

[tracilicious]

Oh, and I too am a bit annoyed that Harry keeps drifting along through school, using all kinds of cheats. He doesn't have to be as brilliant as Hermione, but jeez, can he at least earn normal grades on his own? It's the one trait I do not like about Harry.

Absolutely! I think if I had to fight Voldemort I would be working day and night to be the most powerful wizard that I could be. Harry seems content just to float along, copying off of Hermione most of the time. Slacker.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

They focused less on what was going on in classes, this time. I think their O.W.L.S. were supposed to be evidence of their abilities (and weaknesses). So we're to assume that Harry, all appearances to the contrary, is actually a very good student.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

They focused less on what was going on in classes, this time. I think their O.W.L.S. were supposed to be evidence of their abilities (and weaknesses). So we're to assume that Harry, all appearances to the contrary, is actually a very good student.I can see that I suppose, but doing absolutely nothing in Potions, all freakin' year? I guess you could say that he learned a lot from the HBP notes, but still...

[wendybeth]

I can see that I suppose, but doing absolutely nothing in Potions, all freakin' year? I guess you could say that he learned a lot from the HBP notes, but still...

Well, his social life is picking up....;):D

All I can say is- if Hermione has to come in and save his ass at the end, and probably die trying, then I'm gonna be pissed.

This is the first volume I am actually making an effort to index. There are potentially dozens of clues and red herrings, and it will give me something to do over the next two years to do so. Why must JK insist on a life?:rolleyes:

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I can see that I suppose, but doing absolutely nothing in Potions, all freakin' year? I guess you could say that he learned a lot from the HBP notes, but still...

I would have totally learned the HBP's way of doing things. I don't see a difference between learning the book way or learning a better way from another student who was probably better at potions than the person who wrote the textbook. There are potions makers and potions inventors, after all. If you came across a food recipe in a book, and next to it were some notes on additional spices, etc. that would make the meal even better, wouldn't you make the meal with the spices? You may not be the chef, but you can still be a good cook.

Some people are just naturally good at following directions, while others are brilliant and can come up with an entirely new way to go about something. Not all scientists are inventors. Some are just lab techs. Hermione made some good points. I wouldn't disagree with that. But she was also pretty jealous, I think. And frustrated that she wasn't coming up with ways to improve upon the potions. In some ways Snape is totally right to criticizing her for quoting books word-for-word. That may be learning, but it's not necessarily thinking.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Hermione made some good points. I wouldn't disagree with that. But she was also pretty jealous, I think. And frustrated that she wasn't coming up with ways to improve upon the potions. In some ways Snape is totally right to criticizing her for quoting books word-for-word. That may be learning, but it's not necessarily thinking.Now I'm unsure what to put in tags and what not to, so I'll just use tags. :)Right. I guess what gets me is when Harry got credit for the HBP's potions, as if Harry had come up with them himself (or inherited his talent from his mother etc).

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Now I'm unsure what to put in tags and what not to, so I'll just use tags. :)Right. I guess what gets me is when Harry got credit for the HBP's potions, as if Harry had come up with them himself (or inherited his talent from his mother etc).

Yeah, I suppose he was taking too much credit for another person's work. I suppose he could have at least said, "Well, actually, it's this book I've got here." Still, it seemed like a teenaged thing to do. It's probably what I would have done. Let the teacher think what he must, my friends would know I was just copying from instructions.

I also found it rather odd/funny that Snape didn't make more of a fuss when Slughorn told Snape, in front of Harry, that Harry might even be better than eh (Snape) was when he was 16. You'd think Snape's eyebrow would have immediatly shot up at that. I mean, he taught Harry for 5 years. He'd certainly know there was no way Harry was that good. Then again, it was a comment made by the star ****er of Potions Teachers, so Snape probably figured that Slughorn was just sucking up to Harry.

Oh, I just LOVE how much I read into these books. I'm even irritating myself at this point, and yet I cannot stop.

[wendybeth]

Didn't anyone think it rather odd that:

Harry's mother was so good at potions? Was it because she had a study-buddy? Or perhaps Snape is good at them because of Lily? Either way, Slughorn's revelation caught my eye in a major way. Yet another oh so slight tie with the Snapester...

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Didn't anyone think it rather odd that:

Harry's mother was so good at potions? Was it because she had a study-buddy? Or perhaps Snape is good at them because of Lily? Either way, Slughorn's revelation caught my eye in a major way. Yet another oh so slight tie with the Snapester...And now it's time to play - Wild Pointless Theories!

Severus lost his virginity to Lily. :p

[DisneyFan25863]

Severus lost his virginity to Lily. :p

Before Lupin gave him the eternal love potion. Now he's constantly obsessing over Peeves.

[wendybeth]

And now it's time to play - Wild Pointless Theories!

Severus lost his virginity to Lily. :p

Lol! My, Harry Potter is really not just fer kids, eh?;)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

And now it's time to play - Wild Pointless Theories!

Severus lost his virginity to Lily. :p

I think Severus has yet to lose his virginity. Poor bastard. I do think he and Lily had some kind of connection, though she probably admired his intellect and thought him tolerable lab partner. Maybe she even liked him a little. More likely he was in luvre with her and wanted to be her teh hot sexxor!

[Nephythys]

Oh, I loved Dumbledore vs. the Dursleys. I wonder what he meant about what they had done to Dudley, though. Hmmmm.


They have damaged Dudley by spoiling him, they have allowed him to become a bully and a brat. They have been permissive and taught him to treat others badly by their example with Harry. They have indulged him to the point where he can not function in the real world. Harry was not damaged in such a way, he still has empathy and care for others.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

They have damaged Dudley by spoiling him, they have allowed him to become a bully and a brat. They have been permissive and taught him to treat others badly by their example with Harry. They have indulged him to the point where he can not function in the real world. Harry was not damaged in such a way, he still has empathy and care for others.

I get that. But Heidi points out that Dudley had a severe reaction to the Dementors, which usually happens to people who have experienced severe trauma, so we wonder if maybe there's more to it than being spoiled. I think they've ruined him for a happy adulthood, regardless. But I did wonder if there was more to it than that.

[Nephythys]

I get that. But Heidi points out that Dudley had a severe reaction to the Dementors, which usually happens to people who have experienced severe trauma, so we wonder if maybe there's more to it than being spoiled. I think they've ruined him for a happy adulthood, regardless. But I did wonder if there was more to it than that.


Oh, I always chalked that up to being a muggle reaction. Along with being overweight and basically a coward.

[Prudence]

What if Dudley or his mom are actually magical and have supressed it, either consciously or unconsciously? Could explain Dudley's reaction? And the Mr's extreme loathing? I know, wild speculation.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

What if Dudley or his mom are actually magical and have supressed it, either consciously or unconsciously? Could explain Dudley's reaction? And the Mr's extreme loathing? I know, wild speculation.

Wild, but that's *exactly* one of Heidi's theories, so it's aint' just crackpot, my friend!

[tracilicious]

I think Severus has yet to lose his virginity. Poor bastard.



Maybe you can be the one to break him in! :eek: :p

[Prudence]

Wild, but that's *exactly* one of Heidi's theories, so it's aint' just crackpot, my friend!

No way! I keep thinking that there has to be something more to the Dursleys. I want them to not just be bigoted morons, but to fear what they might be, that they might be "tainted," that they fear in others what they know to be in themselves. That would make them way more interesting and less mere cardboard stiffs serving as foils for Harry.

[Keelboat Captain]

Hello All, Saw this on the Mugglenet web site,
http://www.mugglenet.com/mugglecast/