Distilling Disney

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Why Disney Will Never Be Cool

I once told a coworker about my Disneyland fandom, using the word “geek” quite often to describe myself. She looked at me funny and said, “But Disney isn’t geeky, it’s mainstream. Disney is cool.” This got me thinking about what constitutes “cool” and “geeky” and how (if?) they intersect.

The term “cool” has been in use for a long time and the meaning has morphed quite a bit, but it’s still rather close to its roots. The coolest kid in school was the one that didn’t care. You couldn’t affect him, couldn’t bug him. He was above everything, and it was his nonchalance that everyone coveted. In the original sense, being “cool” meant being “cold” to the world around you.

“Geek”, on the other hand, has odd roots in the carnival business. It didn’t come into its own until “computer geek” came along, and that was after “computer nerd” had run its course. “Geek” is now a comfortable, well-used word. It’s usually used for a person that collects, that memorizes. One that knows too much about one finite subject, usually to the exclusion of everything else.

To many, a geek is socially inept and doesn’t have a significant other. In an ironic twist, this is due to the geek not caring about the social world around them – an almost “cool” personality trait. Sounds like a contradiction in terms. The difference is that the cool kid cares about nothing, while the geek cares a whole lot about something – an extremely specific something.

Back to Disney.

To some degree a Disney fan mirrors a geek. They choose something in the Disney lexicon (animation, music, theme parks, one specific theme park, or even one specific ride!) and learn all they can about it. They may spend countless hours pouring over books and discussing the trickier aspects of their chosen niche. This may be to the exclusion of any social interaction. But that’s only half the story.

The question is, why Disney, as opposed to planets or microchips or American history?

A visitor to Disneyland isn’t there just ride rides that put excitable forces on the body, like any carnival park. They’re there to see, to hear. They want to enjoy the perfectly manicured gardens on Storybook. They want to hear pleasant music floating through Main Street. They want to be in places that don’t exist – that never existed – and simply be there, for a moment in time.

There are plenty of people that tell themselves that they go to Disneyland for their children’s sake. They want to see their kid squeal when they meet the real Mickey Mouse. They want to see the confusion on their child’s face when they exit the eternal bayou twilight of Pirates of the Caribbean into the bright sunshine of Southern California. They pretend it’s all for the kids, simply because they know how all of it works.

Even if they’ll never admit it in the company of others, they’re there for their own fantasy-come-true. Dad takes Junior on Space Mountain and for just a minute, in the dark where no one can see, Dad lets himself see that these really are stars all around him. He really is rocketing through space itself. Mom looks at the Storybook houses and just for a moment ponders the little people that live inside. And then there’s that moment during the fireworks when Mom and Dad lean against each other with contented smiles.

It’s escapism. An escapism every bit as compelling as alcohol or hallucinogenics. Chemically induced happiness is all in your own head, but Disneyland is an actual place, filled with real people, all of whom are friendly. It’s clean and kind and there are magical things happening everywhere you look. Good triumphs and evil is delegated to its proper place. Did you ever dream of a real castle, of talking animals, of picturesque mountains, of serene waterways, of a pixie that flies around and sprinkles fairy dust with a tap of her wand? Disneyland is everything you’ve ever wanted – and each new innovation is another piece of the magical puzzle falling into place.

The only problem is that being affected by all this - smiling at strangers, waving at the Monorail, singing along, tearing up a little during fireworks - simply isn’t cool.

The entire experience is meant to affect you. And if you’re dead set against letting anyone beyond your cool exterior, you can’t allow yourself to have fun at Disneyland.

But there is another level to Disney geekdom that can be discovered once one realizes what the true appeal of Disney is. It’s not just the fascination with knowing a lot about a specific topic, like those listed above. Once you’ve allowed yourself to truly have fun at Disneyland – to let go of any concepts you have of being above “kid’s stuff” – you’re becoming a part of a grand game of make-believe. This game encompasses everyone, from the street sweepers to the hidden office workers, from Anaheim to Florida to Paris and beyond.

Being a Disney geek doesn’t just mean knowing how the Mansion ghosts were created, or what year Splash Mountain opened. It also means that even though you know exactly how everything works, you still believe in the magic. And this is the ultimate coolness taboo.

It’s as if there’s a tacit agreement between Disney fans, Cast Members, and Imagineers:

There aren’t any talking animals, or magic lamps, or flying elephants. There aren’t any towns where the streets are always clean, the flowerbeds are immaculate, and the people are all friendly. Therefore, we have to create this world ourselves, as best we can.

The more we believe in it, the more real it is.

[€uroMeinke]

Heh heh - behold Utopia! For wasn't that really Walt's vision, creating a better place since the real world can always be improved upon - as long as there's imagination left in the world ;)

[wendybeth]

Thanks, CP- I stole a part of your wonderful post for my sig line, if you don't mind. It's a great follow-up to my former.

[Not Afraid]

EDIT: Well, now that I see this is in Open Mic and not in another forum, I'm not sure I should be "discussing" it. Bad me.

I love etymologies and origins of idioms. It fascinated me and and I can never resist the chance to do research on terms and phrases.

The slang "Cool" (http://www.answers.com/topic/cool)as something excellent, great, supurb, etc.

The usage of cool as a general positive epithet or interjection has been part and parcel of English slang since World War II, and has even been borrowed into other languages, such as French and German. Originally this sense is a development from a Black English usage meaning “excellent, superlative,” first recorded in written English in the early 1930s. Jazz musicians who used the term are responsible for its popularization during the 1940s. As a slang word expressing generally positive sentiment, it has stayed current (and cool) far longer than most such words. One of the main characteristics of slang is the continual renewal of its vocabulary and storehouse of expressions: in order for slang to stay slangy, it has to have a feeling of novelty. Slang expressions meaning the same thing as cool, like bully, capital, hot, groovy, hep, crazy, nervous, far-out, rad, and tubular have for the most part not had the staying power or continued universal appeal of cool. In general there is no intrinsic reason why one word stays alive and others get consigned to the scrapheap of linguistic history; slang terms are like fashion designs, constantly changing and never “in” for long. The jury is still out on how long newer expressions of approval such as def and phat will survive.

I think the term can also be widely interpreted by the individual. What is cool to me may not be cool to you.


Geek (http://www.answers.com/geek) was always a slang word and has no "normal" meaning like the word "cool".

The same site defines Geek as:



A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

I think the definition that comes closest into play for those of us who define themselves as "Disney Geeks" is 1.b:

A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
Our acomplishment is not scientific or technical, but rather social and I wouldn't catagorize most of us as being socially inept (although there are those), but the single mindedness of our hobby is a bit more extreme than "most" people. Although, one would have to put a "value" on what is "normal" these days.

For example: if a mother was really into posting to a "Mom's Board" and ended up meeting other board members on occasions at a designated spot, would that be more or less "normal" than what we do?

We're actually probably more akin to "Hobbyists" who share a deep interest in something and gather people with like interestes around them. We just happen to have a great big world of Disney to play in.

Is our hobby escapism? As someone who spend a few years practising real life escapism, I think not. I think we have an interest in things which are magical, wonderful and happy. The real world still exists and I am aware of it while being absolbed in my hobby, but I like a good, healthy distraction now and then.

So sue me! ;) I like being this brand of "geek".

[Boss Radio]

A visitor to Disneyland isn’t there just to ride rides ... They want to be in places that don’t exist – that never existed – and simply be there, for a moment in time.

There are plenty of people that tell themselves that they go to Disneyland for their children’s sake...Even if they’ll never admit it in the company of others, they’re there for their own fantasy-come-true. Dad takes Junior on Space Mountain and for just a minute, in the dark where no one can see, Dad lets himself see that these really are stars all around him. He really is rocketing through space itself. Mom looks at the Storybook houses and just for a moment ponders the little people that live inside. And then there’s that moment during the fireworks when Mom and Dad lean against each other with contented smiles.

It’s escapism. It’s clean and kind and there are magical things happening everywhere you look. Good triumphs and evil is delegated to its proper place. Did you ever dream of a real castle, of talking animals, of picturesque mountains, of serene waterways, of a pixie that flies around and sprinkles fairy dust with a tap of her wand? Disneyland is everything you’ve ever wanted – and each new innovation is another piece of the magical puzzle falling into place.

The more we believe in it, the more real it is.[/i][/b]

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Cadaverous Pallor again.

[DisneyFan25863]

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Cadaverous Pallor again.

Execellent post, CP. I went to Knotts the other day with some friends, and, while I enjoyed screaming my head off on Silver Bullet and praying for my life on Supreme Scream, it just wasn't the same as Disneyland. There was no magic. Disneyland affects people in ways other places can't, and you hit exactly why in that post.

[Boss Radio]

I'm going to ramble, inspired by CP's observation, so forgive me for stating the obvious, but I'm new here:

Disneyland is an ideal - to some it idealizes the past - their own past, the country's past, the shared past of countless childhood stories, legends and tall tales. It is also an idealized future - a sparkling, enthusiastic look toward a better world - the Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow that was promised to us a generation ago, and never came to fruition - not all the way.

(I'm still waiting for my jetpack and the moving sidewalk in front of my Monsanto house, complete with a rooftop landing pad for my hovercraft.)

And the N word. NOSTALGIA.

When Walt dreamed up Disneyland, he designed the park around his boyhood - Turn of the century Main Street, the Frontier legends that entertained him as a boy, the fairy tales, and adventure stories, the World's Fairs with their utopian visions of a shiny new world...

Disneyland was Walt's personal nostalgia machine that struck a deeply resonant chord with an impossibly large segment of the population.

Half a century later, Disneyland is our Main Street - our nostalgic heroes and icons are no longer coonskin-clad statesmen and freckle-faced boys outsmarting Injun Joe - our icons are cartoon characters, movies, theme park rides. Walt remembered tales of swashbuckling pirates from his youth - we remember the thrill of hearing "Dead Men Tell No Tales" right before the once terrifying waterfall descent into the place where dream, memory, fantasy, and nostalgia all happily intersect, and for a fleeting moment, we are 5, 7, 10 years old again.

That is why it works on so many levels.

We bring the magic. Disneyland, by its own masterful design, is a series of happy triggers that unlock real emotional responses - and often release dormant feelings in people of all ages.

Disneyland allows its visitors a chance to not only connect with themselves, but with each other. That is what you have all been saying, in one way or another - that to each one of us, Disneyland is a vessel of infinite human emotion, our mirror reflection, our tallest Peter Pan shadow that never grows old, and (stopping short of bestowing it with God-like power) a Mecca, a Jerusalem, a holy place for nerds, geeks, and the friends of the friendless.

That being said, if the UN ever partitions the DLR like Jerusalem, they can take the DCA half.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Heh heh - behold Utopia!Dig. :cool:
Thanks, CP- I stole a part of your wonderful post for my sig line, if you don't mind. It's a great follow-up to my former.I don't mind at all!

EDIT: Well, now that I see this is in Open Mic and not in another forum, I'm not sure I should be "discussing" it. Bad me.I don't mind discussion - it's supposed to be thought provoking. Definitely not a be-all end-all point of view.

Is our hobby escapism? As someone who spend a few years practising real life escapism, I think not. I think we have an interest in things which are magical, wonderful and happy. The real world still exists and I am aware of it while being absolbed in my hobby, but I like a good, healthy distraction now and then. I guess one could call it tempered escapism. We're not true escapists that can't deal with reality at all, but still, those moments of unreality are escapist moments...and the fact that a lot of us have histories with alcohol and drugs isn't too much of a coincidence.

So sue me! ;) I like being this brand of "geek".Why would anyone sue you? :) It's pretty obvious that I love my passion for Disneyland as much as you and any of the rest of us.

Disneyland affects people in ways other places can't, and you hit exactly why in that post.Now that's high praise. Thank you. :blush:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Boss Radio, what a great post, a fantastic addition to my OP! Dig! :snap:

Must sleep now, much more on this tomorrow.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Man, we must have all got an overdose of magic this weekend. :)

I know that I did, from the moment I pulled into the parking lot.

Now to humbly add to the discussion. I must preface by saying that CP and Boss Radio are hard acts to follow though. You both made such wonderful posts.

One of the comments I have made most often at the park is that I feel "centered". It is like a therapy session, a total state of relaxation, no matter how big the crowds are or how long the line for Space Mountain is. I always feel myself letting out this big sigh of relief when I walk through the tunnels, as if I am home. (Of course, when Main Street is lined with cast members welcoming you home it really accentuates that feeling.) I truly leave the stress of the world behind when I walk through its gates. And as someone who has more than a passing interest in Buddhism, I find a lot in common with how I feel at Disneyland and the sense of being centered that comes with meditation.

And strangely, I am not that big of a "Disney" geek. I love a lot of the movies but I don't know them all by heart. I'm not especially attached to any one character. I don't know the lyrics to all the songs. I know that many "geeks" love everything that is part of Disney. For me though, my specific geekiness is focused on the park and Walt Disney's dream, rather than the company as a whole. And it is only Disneyland Park. I have visited WDW and it just didn't do it for me. It wasn't as quaint and it wasn't as magical. I'm sure others disagree but that's just MHO. Maybe it's that DL was the first one but I suspect that it has to do more with the fact that I know that Walt put everything he could muster into this park. He walked its streets, rode the rides, he was and will always be the most special part of it.

Once on another board, just to be odd, I decided to post a trip report, circa 1973. Those are my earliest recollections of the park and they are still so ingrained into me that writing a trip report was easier than I thought. It wrote itself. I remember everything about those trips, even though I was so young. I remember how I felt on the rides, what they made me think and wonder about. Those thoughts all resurface to this day when I ride those same rides. I can stare in wonder at the pirate ship firing its cannonballs or the ghosts in the ballroom or even the magic carpets floating around Small World. And to be honest, I feel very priviliged to still be able to suspend disbelief and let my imagination take over. It keeps me young, it keeps me sane, and it keeps me happy. And most importantly, as an artist, it keeps me creative. I have a constant reminder that there are no bounds to imagination. If you can think of it, you can make it happen. It is an invaluable part of the creative process.

And for too many years, I thought that there was something odd or rather, unique, about my attachment to Disneyland. It never occurred to me that there were so many other people that felt like I did. Meeting everyone and being able to share all of these thoughts and musings has taken my appreciation to a new level and I cherish that I have all of you in my life to share it with. So glad to know you all.

Ok, time for bed. I'm gettin' punchy :)

[Boss Radio]

I can stare in wonder at the pirate ship firing its cannonballs or the ghosts in the ballroom or even the magic carpets floating around Small World. And to be honest, I feel very priviliged to be able to still be able to suspend disbelief and let my imagination take over. It keeps me young, it keeps me sane, and it keeps me happy. And most importantly, as an artist, it keeps me creative. I have a constant reminder that there are no bounds to imagination. If you can think of it, you can make it happen. It is invaluable to being creative.


You nailed it.
Imagination. Pure imagination.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Walt remembered tales of swashbuckling pirates from his youth - we remember the thrill of hearing "Dead Men Tell No Tales" right before the once terrifying waterfall descent into the place where dream, memory, fantasy, and nostalgia all happily intersect, and for a fleeting moment, we are 5, 7, 10 years old again.What a knockout punch. I'd never thought of it that way...a physical manifestation of nostalgia becoming nostalgia itself. That's actually a good barometer to measure whether a new attraction will be good or not - does it tug on your heartstrings from when you were younger? Even Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters fits this bill. From the generation that discovered Pong and onward, who doesn't want to be inside of a huge video game?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Man, we must have all got an overdose of magic this weekend. :)Hell yes. I've been trying to articulate these feelings for a long time. The total immersion of the past weekend definitely made it all the more possible.

And strangely, I am not that big of a "Disney" geek.
<snip>
For me though, my specific geekiness is focused on the park and Walt Disney's dream, rather than the company as a whole. And it is only Disneyland Park. There's nothing strange about it. Each of us has a focus. I know my main focus is the park itself. I'm about to visit my first other Disney park (Paris in Oct) and I know that no matter how beautiful it is, it will not compare to home sweet home.

I remember everything about those trips, even though I was so young. I remember how I felt on the rides, what they made me think and wonder about. Those thoughts all resurface to this day when I ride those same rides. I can stare in wonder at the pirate ship firing its cannonballs or the ghosts in the ballroom or even the magic carpets floating around Small World. And to be honest, I feel very priviliged to still be able to suspend disbelief and let my imagination take over. :snap:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'd like to hear from those that feel more at home at WDW. I know from the many trip reports I've read over the years that there is magic to be found at every Disney destination. How does WDW make you feel?

I once came across a book about Celebration, FL, the suburban experiment that Disney set up. I didn't have the time to read it though. There are actually a few books written on Celebration. The idea of applying all that Disney has learned about Utopia into a real-life community interests me greatly, and I might have to dig up one of those. After I get to Harry Potter.

It's funny to me that I love the subject, since I hate homeowners associations and the communistic mediocrity I feel they harbor. Gated communities with homogenous houses couldn't be further from Walt's dream! Just look at Main Street, or anywhere else in Disneyland for that matter. Individuality is a part of the magic.

Homowners associations also involve FORCED caring. I'm polite at Disneyland because the environment engenders politeness. I pick up trash, not because anyone tells me to, but because I want the park to be clean. I find this bleeding over into my "real life", where my interactions with patrons at the library are as close to CM quality as I can make them (although I never went through Mickey U). I can only hope that the citizens of Celebration find that it's not rules that make the community magical, it's the voluntary participation.

[Boss Radio]

What a knockout punch. I'd never thought of it that way...a physical manifestation of nostalgia becoming nostalgia itself. That's actually a good barometer to measure whether a new attraction will be good or not - does it tug on your heartstrings from when you were younger? Even Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters fits this bill. From the generation that discovered Pong and onward, who doesn't want to be inside of a huge video game?

I concur.

Disneyland is Nostagia defined - a place where you can revisit your childhood, the childhood you never had, and the thousand happy childhoods that you only dreamed of.

Best of all, Disneyland is all things to all people. No two people see it exactly the same way, possibly because we are all seeing our better selves reflected in it.

[Boss Radio]

I once came across a book about Celebration, FL, the suburban experiment that Disney set up. I didn't have the time to read it though. There are actually a few books written on Celebration. The idea of applying all that Disney has learned about Utopia into a real-life community interests me greatly, and I might have to dig up one of those. After I get to Harry Potter.

It's funny to me that I love the subject, since I hate homeowners associations and the communistic mediocrity I feel they harbor. Gated communities with homogenous houses couldn't be further from Walt's dream! Just look at Main Street, or anywhere else in Disneyland for that matter. Individuality is a part of the magic.

Homowners associations also involve FORCED caring. I'm polite at Disneyland because the environment engenders politeness. I pick up trash, not because anyone tells me to, but because I want the park to be clean. I find this bleeding over into my "real life", where my interactions with patrons at the library are as close to CM quality as I can make them (although I never went through Mickey U). I can only hope that the citizens of Celebration find that it's not rules that make the community magical, it's the voluntary participation.

I became fascinated with the concept, because it sounded like a real-world application - albeit scaled-down - of Walt's Progress City. A pure product of socio-economic engineering that would create a model community of the future.

People lined up, drew straws and the place sold out immediately.

I once bought something Disney-related from a resident, and I asked him about, and he was so happy that it was scary.

I think that in the not too distant future, we can expect to see themed developments that cater to specific segments of the population.

But I'm still holding out for Progress City. I want my moving sidewalk!

[Stan4dSteph]

I'd like to hear from those that feel more at home at WDW.In general, this is me. I grew up going to WDW, not DL.

BTW, Celebration is no longer owned by Disney.

There was an interesting article on Tues. on MousePlanet where each staff member wrote down some of their memories/feelings of Disney. Link (http://www.mouseplanet.com/more/mm050719lt.htm)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Thanks for the link....it makes for amazing reading!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

From the Mouseplanet reminiscing, here's a bit by Mike Scopa that sounds a lot like what MBC was describing.
Which time was most memorable? It could have been the two or three times when I actually forgot the day of the week it was. It might have been the first time I saw my children interact with the characters.

It could have been but it wasn't.

On that visit, on the very first night we watched the Fantasy In the Sky fireworks something changed inside of me. I did not realize it at the time but I was making my first journey into the "Disney Zone." I was free of stress, free of worry, and free of care.

I guess you could say I was filled with "Disney Magic" at that moment and I knew that I had found the one place on Earth I could depend on to release me from the cares of everyday life. That moment brought with it some unexpected tears which still surface today. It was a special moment that transformed me forever.

I'm still reading, there's so much there...

[Prudence]

I don't have to be responsible when I'm in my Disney moments.

I have to be responsible at work, at school, at home -- there are very few times that I just get to enjoy and experience with all my senses. It's a live action fairytale, cartoon, nostalgic daydream, and exotic adventure all rolled into one, with only the good parts. Childish glee isn't just sanctioned, it's encouraged.

[Kels]

I once came across a book about Celebration, FL, the suburban experiment that Disney set up. I didn't have the time to read it though. There are actually a few books written on Celebration. The idea of applying all that Disney has learned about Utopia into a real-life community interests me greatly, and I might have to dig up one of those. After I get to Harry Potter.

This piqued my interest. When I was high school I did an extensive report on the Walt Disney Co. for my economics class. It was right around the time that Celebration was established and I was facinated with it. I'm a little ashamed to say I haven't really thought about is since. A quick google search led me to their official website (http://www.celebrationfl.com/index.html). I've only perused for a minute or two but once again I'm enthralled. Wow, a real live Stepford (in a sense). There are also some pics here (http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/wooda/celebrationphotos/index.html). One interesting thing that I noticed is that it snows nightly on Market Street from Nov. 25-Dec 31st. Hmm.

[€uroMeinke]

I have a book on Celebration and found it fascinating reading. It was an interesting concept that of course me the same kind of compromises that Disney made in it's other projects at the same time. It has it's staunch supporters, but it never came out the way it was envisioned.

Progress city, the original EPCOT was another cool concept - but early on, I think Walt realized that in order for it to work it had to be run by a benevolent dictatorship. It's residents were all supposed to be temporary - there to build and test pototypes, and then go home. Democracy and majority rule would quickly dilute the ideals - and yet, it still seems so appealing.

[Boss Radio]

A print of the 1966 concept art of Progress City hangs proudly above my desk at work. It warms my heart every time I look up.

[Not Afraid]

This discussion, both on the board and the ones I've been having off line, have been fascinating. I'm not sure the distilling process is done. Maybe I'm not sure it can ever be distilled in a universal way, but the discussion sure is fun.

The event planner in me is alive and kicking. Stay tuned for more. ;)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The thread title "Distilling Disney" was a last moment afterthought. The real title of the OP, "Why Disney will never be cool", was the original concept, even though it grew into something larger as I wrote it.

I do think that "Disney Magic" is something that can be measured and purposefully created.

[FEJ]

Why Disney Will Never Be Cool


I disagree.

If it is considered cool to an individual, and also the group they hang around, then it is still cool. To the group of people who, in varying degrees, are fans of Disney, then it will always be cool. Even in the Disney microcosm, there are still verying degrees of what people think are cool =. I for one, am not a Pin-Trader, but there are those who have footlocker size portfolios of the rerest pins, etc, and they are considered coool by their peers. I happen to have certain things in my small collection that some think are cool also.
I think the word "geek" is used as a blanket term to also give some chic'-ness to some people's fanatacism.
As for bieng socially inept,there are situations that really do apply. See definition #3 (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=inept&x=0&y=0) Due to the fact of the amount of knowledge attained on certain subjects, it can alienate Disney people when the simple questions are asked. I know for myself it it hard to hold back the complete history and backstory contained in my personal archives when someone asks simple questions where I know they only want a "yes/no" or short answer. When people ask the time, I don't have to explain how to build a watch or how it works :grin:

Ask someone who watches the fireworks, just seen The Lion King, has just experienced something Disney related what they think about Disney, most likely they will think it is "Cool"

Ask them what they think of Fanatics (Whether it be of Disney, action figures, comics, entertainment/actors/musician, collectibles, pro/con issues, etc...), then That is where the uncoolness comes in. When it steps beyond the realm of fun and takes over ones life, that becomes sad.


All in all, it is perception.
Will Disney be cool...
Yes.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I disagree.

If it is considered cool to an individual, and also the group they hang around, then it is still cool. Rereading my post, I realize I didn't make clear something that I thought I had - that the word "cool" now means "anything that I think is neat or interesting", but that for the purposes of this piece, I'd be going with the social sense of "cool". By using the broader term, everything is cool, because there's always someone somewhere that will think that thing is neat or interesting. In that sense, the word means nothing, really.

I wasn't trying to discuss whether Disney is called "cool" by some people - obviously, it is.

[flippyshark]

What a thread this is! I can't even begin to conjure up anything I might contribute, except to say that it is all very useful to a bit of fiction I"ve been slowly chipping away at for a long time. Thanks for the insightful dialog, everyone!

Less germane to the overall topic, it's worth mentioning that Celebration doesn't belong to Disney anymore. They sold it off a couple of years ago. It's a fascinating place to visit, but most people I take there immediately compare it to the artificial world of The Truman Show. It has a kind of Stepford quality, and is only slowly taking on the sense of community that makes a place real. It has never given me that warm magic vibe that the best Disney park or resort experiences deliver. But I like to go there occasionally. There is an excellent little cafe on a corner in their tiny downtown region.

Rock on, y'all.