WTF? Religious discrimination in the courts

[Ghoulish Delight]

How the hell did this drop out of the news? An offhand comment in an editorial piece lead me to do a google search, which brought up this story (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481).

An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."

Both parents are Wiccan.

My first question: What the hell is wrong with this judge? That's so absurdly wrong it's disgusting.

My second question (which has an answer): Why has there been not a peep about this since the end of May? Where are the reports of appeals (which most certainly happened)? Where's the story about the sane judge who overturns this stupidity? The answer, of course, is that it's Wicca so no one cares. Sad, but true.

[Prudence]

I agree with the quoted law professor: blatantly unconstitutional.

The obvious argument to make, should either parent ever be charged with violation, is that Wicca is mainstream. The little side note says 50,000 Americans are Wiccan, but I can't imagine the number is that low. Heck, the Army recognizes it. I'd love some reliable numbers comparing numbers of Wiccans to, say, Free Methodist, Missouri synod Lutherans, Chuch of the Brethren, or other smaller groups. I'm sure they'd love to hear that they're potentially objectionable.

[SacTown Chronic]

The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.

Well no wonder the judge went SuperFreak on those heathens. There's no place in America for people with a "reverence for the earth". We could kick the earth's ass in like a week, ten days tops.

[Nephythys]

:rolleyes:

I swear to god.....that is not even worth the effort to roll ones eyes.

Odd- I would think you would need evidence that the child is beng harmed before you could court order them in such a way. I heard of someone who was court ordered to not teach their child that being gay was prohibited in the Bible- flip side of this same coin. Though I doubt any of you would fight that one-

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Did y'all not get the memo about Christianity being the One True Faith? Surely you don't think it would be a good idea to expose young minds to ideas that differ from the OTF! Such acts could corrupt their tender little psyches and cause the formerly innocent children to grow up to be "free thinkers" (the Liberal term for Satan worshipers), homosexuals, or even worse... Democrats! :eek:

[scaeagles]

Sadly, there is religious discrimination of all faiths by stupid people everywhere. This is a sad case, and the judge is clearly in the wrong. To suggest, however, that religious discrimination is because of Christianity is ridiculous.

[Scrooge McSam]

I heard of someone who was court ordered to not teach their child that being gay was prohibited in the Bible- flip side of this same coin.

Do you have a link? I've heard this from another but he was unable to provide me with proof. I can't figure out if that's true or not. I've searched every way I know how on google, but as you may know, if you use bible and court and gay in the same search, you're gonna be there a while. If it's true, it's just as wrong as what's happening here.

Though I doubt any of you would fight that one-

Well... ;) Surprise!

I won't even attempt to give this the once over Prudence could deliver on this issue, so I'll just say this. I was taught the same thing as a child. And it has served me well. Knowledge is power.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by scaeagles
To suggest, however, that religious discrimination is because of Christianity is ridiculous.I don't know if you were responding to my post or not, but for the record I intended to make no such assertion. I was merely making a satirical remark, couched as the rantings of an imaginary zealous judge who just happened to be Christian.

I know they're not all wackos. Some of my dearest friends are Christian. ;)

[Scrooge McSam]

Sadly, there is religious discrimination of all faiths by stupid people everywhere. This is a sad case, and the judge is clearly in the wrong. To suggest, however, that religious discrimination is because of Christianity is ridiculous.

LOL Are you just trying to start something?

Nobody's suggested that but YOU? ROFL

Are you having a boring Friday afternoon?

[Disneyphile]

The little side note says 50,000 Americans are Wiccan, but I can't imagine the number is that low. It's MUCH higher than that, mainly known within our community. Most Wiccans/Pagans can't come out of the "broom closet" (we seriously call it that), out of fear of discrimination, which DOES happen all the time.

People persecute our religion quite often, and sometimes very dramatically. Just two years ago, a group decided to "invade" and protest at an Ostara (Spring Equinox) ritual in Lancaster, CA. They drove their trucks up to the worship site and started blaring Christian music and reading loudly from the bible and harassing attendees.

The best was when a lone man decided to carry a very large banner with a bible verse and parade through our Los Angeles Pagan Pride Day event in the fall. About 1,200 people attended, and he was walking through in quiet protest, bible tucked under his arm. We didn't yell or scream at him, nor ask him to leave. Instead, about 100 of us gathered for a group photo with him and then gave him hugs. :D

Sadly, some people feel it's appropriate to barge in on another faith's worship services and activities, and let 'em know that "Jebus doesn't think it's right."

I have yet to see a Wiccan group storm a church in such fashion. :rolleyes:

[Nephythys]

Do you have a link? I've heard this from another but he was unable to provide me with proof. I can't figure out if that's true or not. I've searched every way I know how on google, but as you may know, if you use bible and court and gay in the same search, you're gonna be there a while. If it's true, it's just as wrong as what's happening here.

I will look this weekend.



Well... ;) Surprise!

Cheers for being grown up enough to admit it ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Cheers for being grown up enough to admit it ;)He ain't the only one. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here that would say otherwise, and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a little insulted by your implication otherwise. No one here has ever shown any anti-christian sentiment, only anti-christian rule. There's huge difference.

[Nephythys]

He ain't the only one. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here that would say otherwise, and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a little insulted by your implication otherwise. No one here has ever shown any anti-christian sentiment, only anti-christian rule. There's huge difference.


You choose to preceive insult where none exists- and no, I don't doubt that he is the only one, but he admits his bias.

You seem outraged that this is not in the news- and all I pointed out was that I doubted there would be outrage from many here for the flip side- the Christian who was court-ordered to not teach an anti-Gay message. To deny that seems truly disingenuous- sorry, but it does.

I personally do not think any court should dictate morality teaching of any kind- period.

[Ghoulish Delight]

You seem outraged that this is not in the news- and all I pointed out was that I doubted there would be outrage from many here for the flip side- the Christian who was court-ordered to not teach an anti-Gay message. To deny that seems truly disingenuous- sorry, but it does.

I personally do not think any court should dictate morality teaching of any kind- period.I agree, and if you can show me a story where that happened, I would direct an equal amount of outrage in that direction.

[Prudence]

Here's my random mental wandering for the day:

What if the parent practiced some truly old school Catholicism and insisted that despite what the kid's school was teaching, the earth was actually the center of the universe and did not revolved around the sun. Surely that would breed the same sort of confusion the judge was purportedly trying to avoid? Would it have engendered the same result?

Perhaps Indiana needs a handbook of approved beliefs and practices to hand out to all current and prospective parents?

(Side note: Sometimes I really wish I was in practice already and on a particular case. Oh the fun I could have! Noting the pagan origins of so-called "mainstream" practices. Comparing numbers of Wiccans to numbers of other faiths and denominations and asking for equal treatment. (No Diwali for you, mister! And that goes double for Visakha Bucha!) And that doesn't even touch the constitutional issues! I suspect the reason this didn't get more press is because it's so obviously wrong. There was a follow-up article 2 days later indicating that most thought it would be quickly overturned upon appeal. But wouldn't it be entertaining for a brief moment to demonstrate what that ruling really meant? To try to ellicit a definition of "mainstream"?)

[scaeagles]

LOL Are you just trying to start something?

Nobody's suggested that but YOU? ROFL

Are you having a boring Friday afternoon?

Me? Try to provoke a response? You are confusing me with Sac, apparently.

And yes, I'm going nuts with boredom this workday. Preparing documents as support for an DOD audit is mind numbingly dull. I'm done, but I'm waiting to send them off until the end of business so no one calls me to tell me they need them revised.

[SacTown Chronic]

Don't flatter yourself, toaster whore. Although, in reality, we're probably more alike than either one of us would like to admit. I like sunshine and butterflies. Do you?

[scaeagles]

I hear people in the Clinton administration like sunshine and butterflies.

[SacTown Chronic]

And hummers.

[scaeagles]

Don't flatter yourself, toaster whore. Although, in reality, we're probably more alike than either one of us would like to admit.

So, if I'm a toaster whore, are you a corndog whore?

[SacTown Chronic]

I'm more of a taco whore.

[scaeagles]

Don't flatter yourself, toaster whore.

That reminds me - MBC, you got my blender yet????

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Hmm, I think I'll hold on to it just a bit longer. it's a mighty fine appliance and I can't just give it away. I need to see more effort.

[Tref]

What was that about taco's?

[scaeagles]

I can't just give it away. I need to see more effort.

Dude, I've already bent over as far as I can. I'm no gymnast, OK???? ;)

[Kevy Baby]

I wonder how horrified the nutjobs like this judge would be if they knew the Pagan origins of the "Christian" holidays?

What was that about taco's?
I don't see the Taco King (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/member.php?u=20) anywhere in this thread.

[SacTown Chronic]

I need to see more effort.
I would say that getting your sphincter stretched qualifies as giving it your all. But I'll defer to your expertise and experience.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I would say that getting your sphincter stretched qualifies as giving it your all. But I'll defer to your expertise and experience.

and he had a medical procedure too. ;)

(sorry, had to steal your joke. It's worth repeating. :D )

[Scrooge McSam]

I will look this weekend.

Any luck on finding a link to that story?