The Official Harry Potter thread (SPOILERS - NO tags) [Archive]

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wendybeth

07-24-2005, 12:09 AM

Okay, the new book is out and if anyone hasn't finished it, too bad. Here is where we discuss book number six and it's predecessors, and where we post our own theories.

I'll go first, with a caveat. I am too tired right now to defend it, but will do so- vigorously- tomorrow, after a decent nights sleep.

Dumbledore is not dead, and the thing with Snape was a set-up, a ruse, to throw off the Death Eaters and pave the way for Harry's final battle with Voldie. This is probably obvious to a lot of people, but as I said, I will defend it if necessary once I've had my beauty sleeps.

BarTopDancer

07-24-2005, 12:18 AM

I would agree with you WB except...

JKR has said in interviews that death is permanent and forever. She doesn't want to confuse the kiddos that their loved ones may come back.

That said I think:

He is dead but will come back in some form to help Harry. I also think that he and Snape were in on it together, that Snape really is a double agent, on the side of Dumbledore to help Harry. I think when Dumbledore was begging he wasn't begging for his life, but for Snape to kill him for the greater good.

Oops! Stupid submit button.

Uber major theory ahead re: red herrings:
JRK is the Queen of red herrings. Does anyone else think that Harry is the ultimate red herring? Or is that just sleep deprivation talking.

Thank you and goodnight!

wendybeth

07-24-2005, 12:44 AM

I think this should be a no-spoiler thread. Like I said, if you haven't read it yet, then avert your eyes.

JK, bless her, is just a bit disingenuous. She has also said that she hasn't finished the LOTR, but come on- does anyone believe that? Her books, while wonderfully imaginitive and engrossing, owe a hell of a lot to Tolkein's. ANd while we're on the subject- Peter Pettigrew as Gollum.....any ideas? I've a few, but I need to check a few things before presenting them.

There are many reasons that I think Dumbledore is not dead, and I will post them tomorrow, as I really am wiped out tonight. (I worked all day, then came home, cooked dinner then painted the foyer and hallway, which have vaulted ceilings). I will say that this is not wishful thinking, as initiallly I saw the logic in his death and knew from his statement about Nicholas Flamel that he did not fear it. Remember, Dumbledore has, so far, not been wrong- especially in his estimation of others. Also, he has (repeatedly) told Harry of the redemptive (and superior) power of love, which Voldie could never understand. It applies to more than just Harry........

Keelboat Captain

07-24-2005, 01:38 AM

Wow! This is great and what a start. I was just heading to bed when I thought to take a peek back in and found my favorite subject on. However I think I will just make a few blanket statement tonight then off to bed.
First: I thing Dumbledore is dead and will not be coming back as anything more than a painting.
Second: I was a little disappointed Harry did not learn more magic from Dumbledore like maybe how magic feels when they were in the cave.
Third: R.A.B. is Regulus ???? Black just a guess.
My question to you are:
What is going to pull Harry back to school. I think something must, could he teach DADA. I think if Hermione becomes Head Girl and Harry needs to find something in the castle he might come back.
Was Dumbledore's brother at the funeral?
Do you think one of the Horcrux's (a Cup maybe) could be in the orphanage? Although Dumbledore would have checked there closely I suppose. Ok more than I meant to start with, until tomorrow good night.

Not Afraid

07-24-2005, 03:09 AM

I changed the thread title to warn that there be spoilers ahead and no tags used. Then I scrolled REALLY FAST down here to post this. ;)

Betty

07-24-2005, 06:06 AM

Discussion has already been going on here: http://www.xenarchy.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=1620

libraryvixen

07-24-2005, 09:30 AM

I give full credit to Tracilicious on the theory that Harry's scar is the last Horcrux.

wendybeth

07-24-2005, 10:31 AM

Discussion has already been going on here: http://www.xenarchy.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=1620

Doh! Well, one can never have too many HP threads going...I posted this thread for Keelboat Captain, and I'd forgotten about the release day one. I think the scar as a horcrux is a great theory, too.

Now I have to go and catch up on the other thread to see what other theories have been presented. I certainly wouldn't want to be redundant.;):D

wendybeth

07-24-2005, 11:00 AM

Okay- I made it through the maze of spoilers- lol. Great posts, and great ideas.:snap:

I think Snape is a bastard, but one with remorse and regret.(2) I also think that he, unlike Voldie, is capable of love, and that is why he is working against his former master. I believe that he was in love with Lily and when he discovered that he had played a role in her death, he was overcome with remorse and and wanted revenge against her murderer. Dumbledore keeps saying that love is the strongest magic of all (1)- even the darkest arts can be defeated by it. If Snape is motivated by such a powerful magic, then he would be able to prevent Voldemort from seeing his true mission. He could have hurt any one of the kids at any time, yet he didn't. Even at the end, he was still 'teaching' Harry, and only lost his temper when called a coward. (3)

I think Snape and Dumbledore set up this scenario, to lure out the Death-Eaters and fool Voldemort into thinking the school, and Harry, were without their leader. They couldn't let anyone else into the secret, as Voldemort would easily be able to the truth then. I'll back this up later, but I have a few other things I want to cover first.

Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead.

So far, unless JK introduces a new character in #7, I believe RAB is Regulus. He disappeared, but no one knows how or where he died, just that he had turned his back on the Dark Lord. I think he may be dead, as the Black house (and Kreacher) probably wouldn't have gone to Harry if Regulus were still living. I also think that Kreacher hid one of the horcrux's- remember in book 5 when he was stashing away all the Black family artifacts? So, all Harry has to do is discover this, and order Kreacher to give it to him.

Peter Pettigrew.....He is still in the wings, and Dumbledore indicated that he may end up being of great help to Harry in the end. And what about the new Minister of Magic? Does his status as a vampire play into the story, or is it yet another flipping herring?

Okay- back to housepainting.:rolleyes:

(1)Pgs 508-512.
(2) Pgs 548-550
(3) pGS 602- 605

Jazzman

07-24-2005, 09:21 PM

If nobody minds, I'm going to cross-post my theories regarding HBP from MiceChat (saves me time) but I am putting them in spoiler boxes to save space and spare those who have read them already.

I’m doubting that Dumbledore is actually gone and that Snape is really evil. Rowling loves to put in little hints that you don’t realize until later, and this book seemed chock full of them. Most obvious of which, Dumbledore’s attempt to turn Draco around. From page 592. “I can help you Draco... He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine... Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me... Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother...” He’s talking about faking one’s death! And later, “No Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.” Obviously Dumbledore is in control, and I also believe that his later pleading was simply to add to the ruse. Further, I do not believe that he would have stunned an invisible Harry, forcing him to watch the horror of Dumbledore’s murder, unless he had a great reason. And what better way to convince the world, and your enemies, that you are dead than to convince the ones who love you most and who are closest to you? If Harry believes, Voldemort surely will. And getting ultimate credibility for Snape from Voldy at the same time? Perfect. Further, in OotP Dumbledore remarked how much easier it was to accomplish tasks when released from the school. Well, now he certainly is released. But the thing that did it for me was this, from page 645, “Bright, white flames had erupted around Dumbledore’s body and the table upon which it lay... White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a Phoenix fly joyfully into the blue...” Rowling never adds a “so-and-so thought they saw such-and-such” unless they actually did. Remember Draco catching a fleeting glimpse of Harry’s shoe? And the fact that Dumbledore’s body disappears behind flames that diminish to reveal the tomb, with nobody seeing his body actually interred, seems like the old “smoke and mirrors” bit to me. And last, I sincerely doubt that Rowling would have made Phoenixes so central in the books if it weren’t for something like this. Phoenix means returning from the grave, at least metaphorically. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t return.

And regarding Snape.

My own suspicion is this. He is, through it all, good at heart. His malice towards Harry stems from his malice towards James, which in turn springs from, I believe, intense jealousy. I believe that Snape was (wait for it!!!) in love with Lilly, and he hated James, his tormenter and sworn enemy, for stealing her heart. Remember that when Harry was in the Pensieve, watching Sirius and James bully Snape, it was Lilly who intervened and made them stop (and, incidentally, we now know that she was a master potion maker, a major attraction to someone like Snape.) Snape’s harsh names thrown at her were just in reaction to being embarrassed. He loved her, and ultimately caused her death after hearing the prophecy. I believe that this is why Dumbledore trusts him completely. He knows that Snape’s heart broke when he realized that he had caused the death of the woman he loved, and therefore was forever committed to righting that wrong. Imagine; what if Harry was less pure and strong, was deeply in love with Ginny, but she fell in love with Draco, and Harry inadvertently got her killed. I imagine that he’d act much as Snape does. Also, if Snape was truly Dark enough to murder Albus Dumbledore, he wouldn't have simply knocked out Flitwick and left. If Snape was a true Death Eater, he would have killed him, knowing that he was an enemy of Voldemort. No, Snape is still undercover. Deep cover, now.

And my little caveat.
As for Dumbledore, I’m going to play Devil's Advocate a little here. I still believe the theories which I posted, but I can’t help but wonder if those same clues that I picked up on could actually be proof that Dumbledore isn’t coming back. Here’s why. These books are kids books. Yes, adults are equally in love with them too, but still, they’re kids books. And kids books share the common trait of teaching lessons. I wonder if, perhaps, Dumbledore’s death is such a lesson. In OotP, when Sirius died, the reader experienced it through Harry. We saw how Harry reacted; his disbelief, hope that it wasn’t real, gradual acceptance, coping with grief, etc. I wonder if that was “Death Lesson 1.” Now, with Dumbledore’s death, (Lesson 2) the reader experiences death for themselves. Where before we lamented for Harry and his pain, we now lament at our own sense of loss. And all of Rowling’s clever little clues, giving us hope that this isn’t real, may simply be a way of creating that feeling of disbelief in the reader, just as Harry felt it for Sirius. “No, he’s not dead! Look at this!”

So, I have to wonder if this is all Rowling’s way of teaching kids about death, and loss. With the funeral, the way her descriptions pulled you in so that you felt that you were there, experiencing it, feeling it; and now the long, slow path of acceptance, it definitely seems plausible. I hope that this isn’t true, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is.

So those are my thoughts, anyhow. Whatever happens, I’m loving this series more and more and more....

wendybeth

07-24-2005, 11:59 PM

Good points, Jazzman.:snap:

As far as whether or not Dumbledore was up to something, something he says (on page 553) tipped me off to the idea that perhaps all was not as it appears. He tells Harry, when asked about what others might think of him leaving the school, that "I am off to Hogsmeade for a drink" and "I sometimes offer Rosmerta my custom...or I appear to. It is as good a way as any of disguising one's true destination". I also caught what Jazzman pointed out regarding Draco, and the Pheonix connection as well. Thanks for saving me lots of typing, Jazz- my fingers are killing me from painting all day!

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-25-2005, 10:05 AM

Having started the other thread and talked about this at length (to an embarrassing degree, no less) on LJ, I don't have much energy to discuss the book again here, BUT, Wendybeth!!!!:

"Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead."

That didn't even occur to me. How awesome! And I really hope this happens. But it may not. The werewolf condition, afterall, has been primarily used as a metaphor for illness and disability. And there's not usually a magical cure for either, so she may think it a betrayal to suddenly cure Remus and Bill of a sudden toward the end of the book.

Pettigrew will probably be important because, I think, he owes a life debt to Harry.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-25-2005, 10:11 AM

Also, I have developed the BEST theory of all about the importance of Harry having Lily's eyes:

"Harry, you have your mother's eyes."

"Remus, I know. You keep telling me. Everyone keeps telling me. We both have green eyes. Gotcha."

"No, I mean, your mother's actual eyes. You have them."

"Wha???"

"Dumbledore left them in the letter he gave to Petunia, the evening he left you at the Dursley's doorstep. She has kept them safe for you. They are very powerful weapons, which you will need to use inorder to destroy Voldemort."

"EW! And, how?"

"Throw them at him."

"Throw them? Will they, um, blow him up?"

"No. They will really gross him out, though. And while he's all frantic and trying to wipe off leaky eyeball juice, you will be given the opportunity to kill him."

libraryvixen

07-25-2005, 10:34 AM

wendybeth

07-25-2005, 10:36 AM

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-25-2005, 11:02 AM

Lol, Eliza!!!
And my apologies for forgetting about the other thread- I didn't mean to step on toes, but I guess this one differs in that there are no spoiler tags to wade through.:D

I wonder of Pettigrew's nifty new hand is a horcrux? I can't see him intentionally helping Harry.

The hand theory is way far out and totally worth wondering about. Though I can't imagine Voldemort entrusting such an object to such a rat fink. Heh.

Cadaverous Pallor

07-25-2005, 05:36 PM

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-25-2005, 05:50 PM

Well, now that Eliza's here, I guess this really is the official thread. :)

I've seen various people say "How did the Dursleys abuse Dudley?" I thought that much was obvious. They abused him by turning him into a monster. Spoiling a child doesn't mean they're giving him everything he needs - they didn't give him discipline.

Me, too! That's what I thought Dumbledore meant, as well. He's going to turn into a wreck of a grown up, that Dudley. They've ruined him. But Heidi wonders what it was that got Dudley so horribly upset when the Dementor's attack. They seem to work best against those who have had a tragic or disturbing past, so maybe there *is*more to what Dumbledore had to say. Rowling's answered a lot of questions recently and I'm surprised none of them were about the Dudley/Dumbledore thing.

Keelboat Captain

07-27-2005, 04:33 PM

Prudence

07-27-2005, 04:51 PM

I think Dumbledore is really dead, but I also think that doesn't matter in the long run. Look at Nearly Headless Nick and all the various paintings. I think Dumbledore will continue to be an influence.

wendybeth

07-27-2005, 06:52 PM

Sorry about asking for a new Harry Potter thread. I had not gone looking beyond the obvious to see if someone had already started one (I will actually look next time I swear). After reading through this thread, I am not nearly as confident about whether Dumbledore is dead of not. Your ideas are very good, and have given me lot to think about.

I was listening to the book in the car yesterday on the way to work and got to the part where Harry is off for Christmas at the Weasleys. During that chapter Lupin asked Harry how old the potions book was, and when he looks later it was fifty years old (a book from back in Tom Riddles time in school). Does this mean Snape is not the original owner, but maybe the second person to benefit from it (Harry being the third). Could there be two types of writing in the book, that maybe Harry did not notice? Does the age mater?

Don't worry about it, Keelboat! I actually did a half-hearted search, but when I didn't see anything I just started a new one. I'd forgotten all about the Release Day thread, so my bad. We've had lots of HP threads, and will have lots more. (Both here and at other sites). Consider this one the non- tagged one, and the other one for those who read slowly.;)

Good point about the book- his mother would have been from Voldie's era, so perhaps he inherited her book, but remember the comment about the girlish writing? Hmmmm....

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-28-2005, 09:43 AM

Good point about the book- his mother would have been from Voldie's era, so perhaps he inherited her book, but remember the comment about the girlish writing? Hmmmm....

I think that Hermione said it could have been a girl or boy's writing, but no one (I don't think) said the writing was actually girly looking. I do think that Voldemort, Hagrid, and Snape's mother were at Hogwarts at the same time. Though since she grew up to marry a Muggle, I'd hazard a guess that she wasn't a pureblood enthusiast. I don't discredit the theory that the writing was Snape's mother's rather than his own. When Heidi suggested that to me a couple of days after we finished the book I was super excited about the theory. It would also explain how (as told to the Trio by Sirius) Snape arrived at Hogwarts knowing more hexes and curses and dark magic, etc. than anyone else. He learned a lot before from dear Mum. Still, I rather like the idea of Snape being uncommonly gifted. Ingenious, even. And it further explains why he's so derisive of Hermione's textbook answers; there's nothing original about them.

Keelboat Captain

07-28-2005, 04:57 PM

So to believe Dumbledore is alive then you must also believe that Snape was truly in love with Lilly?
I wonder what potions class was like with Lilly and Snape battling for Slughorns affections?
I just loved this book and all its layers. I wish she would write a couple of extra books before it ends about finding the Horcruxs

wendybeth

07-28-2005, 09:47 PM

Cadaverous Pallor

07-29-2005, 12:05 AM

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at Rowling for making Ron and Hermione into idiots.

Yeah, I know, they're 16, hormones raging and all, but I really expect better of our heroes in these books.

There was that great moment where they look at each other and realize that they really want to go to the party together. Why couldn't they have settled their ancient crap then and there?

I think Rowling is hiding all the good stuff to be played out in the final book. I could almost feel her holding back on this one. I know I'm building up obscenely high expectations for the last book but all signs point towards a completely insane climax.

Jazzman

07-29-2005, 01:32 AM

I just sincerely hope that, after all of this built up anticipation we’re feeling now, the last book doesn't end up with Harry robotically (and moronically) stomping stiffly around and moaning, "Nooooo!!!! Ginnnnn-nnneeeee!!!! Aaaauuuugggghhhhh!!!!!!!!"

;)

wendybeth

07-29-2005, 08:38 AM

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-29-2005, 10:58 AM

Hermione told Harry "It might have been a girl. I think the handwriting looks more like a girl's than a boy's", and she was the one who discovered the former student (Snape's mom) with the last name of Prince. I suspect Mom helped Severus in his schooling, and may have annotated the book for him. Wouldn't Snape's handwriting be familiar to the students? I wonder if there are any examples in past volumes.....

That's Heidi's theory, and it's a pretty sound one. It irritated me that they didn't recognize his writing. Then again, Rowling talked about his cramped writing from Book 5. And Book 6 describes the "Prince's" writing as cramped, as well. So, who knows. I'm sure all will be revealed in TWO FRIGGIN YEARS. Bastard Rowling.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-29-2005, 11:04 AM

Wouldn't it be funny if the handwriting were Lily's? Maybe she was like Hermione and just excelled in everything. Perhaps after all the tormenting from the James Gang Lily took pity on Severus and taught him spells and potions- it could be he owes his brilliance to her. He certainly wasn't very adept at blocking spells- remember James using the levitating spell on Severus? (That shows that it's likely Snape didn't invent that particular spell). Could also explain his dislike of Hermione's natural abilities- he had to really work for his knowledge.

This seems really off to me for a couple of reasons. One, Sirius tells us in Book 4 that Snape arrived at Hogwarts already knowing more hexes, etc. than most students. So whether he learned a lot from his mother, or picked up a lot on his own, I think it's safe to say he's really gifted/intelligent. Evil or good, those two things seem really clear to me. He is a glory hound, however, and does like to take credit where it isn't due, so....who konws?

But the writing is most likely Snape's or his mum's. I really don't think it's Lily's. Like Hermione said, there was an unkind sense of humor at play, and I don't think Lily was unkind. The book also said that the spell had a way of quickly circulating the school, and it makes sense that an aspect of Snape's complete humiliation in his so called "worst memory" would involve having his own hex/invention turned against him. (Or, possibly, his mother's hex.) It would also further explain why he's so vehement about being on one's guard, and non-verbal spells, etc. I'm guessing that Snape got the best of the Mauraders every bit as much as they got the best of him. I was under the impression that he was pretty good at blocking spells normally, and that particular memory was one of the more terrible exceptions.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-29-2005, 11:12 AM

A stolen moment from PS/SS gives us insight into the heart and mind of Hogwart’s most enigmatic professor.

Oh Merlin, this is bloody brilliant. Look at me. Just look! It is I, the Half-Blood Prince! I've got the Evil Order of Merlin, First Class. There’s a new Dark Lord in town and he’s wearing a tiara – oh, how it sparkles! My hair is clean! Sirius Black is my personal olive de-pitter and bath mat. Harry Potter is lying dead at my feet and Lily Evans is back from the dead and dressed up like Princess Leia in Return of the Jedi. James Potter continues to rot, spinning in his grave. That’s right, Potter. Your wife is mine, mine, mine! My slave girl. My wife girl. My Potions Mistress girl! All the lemon drops have vanished from the globe and Dumbledore is crying. I’ve renamed Hogwarts Dead Eater High. I’m the new Headmaster *and* the new DDAATT (Do Dark Arts All The Time) teacher. My teeth are no longer yellow thanks to North American toothpaste. Ugly is the new pretty and everybody wants my skinny and sallow body. Glorious, glorious mirror!

innerSpaceman

07-29-2005, 11:26 AM

I think Rowling is hiding all the good stuff to be played out in the final book. I could almost feel her holding back on this one.
Ahem, amid all the theories and mysteries and postulations, has anyone ever considered that this was a really crummy book?

Aside from the last hundred pages of breathless excitement and actual decent writing, the entire book was one big bothersome bore. Laboriously laying down mysteries that then go stubbornly unaddressed through chapter after chapter ... nothing happening other than a review of Voldemort's childhood ... waiting and awaiting and awaiting some more the thrilling climax, but offering the reader scant little till then. Worse, though ... the climax reveals nothing about the mysteries set up in the book for which the reader waded through hundreds of pages for a resolution. I mean, I know this is a series, but I really don't think any of the other books (to my admittedly adled memory) left this much unanswered.

Specifically, I think its b.s. to have so much of the subject matter of this book be about what Snape's true loyalties are ... only to mire it even deeper in mystery rather than illuminate it. I think the book was a cheat, and a tease, and worse - boring till the last few chapters.

I don't like the idea of a "series." These are novels, released years apart and, though they may add up to a larger story, I believe each should be a satisfying work of art in its own right. I also got the feeling, quite strongly, that Rowling was holding back, holding back, saving everything for a final book that cannot possibly contain the entire freaking story, while simultaneously sacrificing the quality of the present book to purportedly add to the quality of the next.

This quote from Jazzman will keenly illustrate the dangers of wait-for-it, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, save it all for last chapter ... only to disappoint.
I just sincerely hope that, after all of this built up anticipation we’re feeling now, the last book doesn't end up with Harry robotically (and moronically) stomping stiffly around and moaning, "Nooooo!!!! Ginnnnn-nnneeeee!!!! Aaaauuuugggghhhhh!!!!!!!!"

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Cadaverous Pallor

07-29-2005, 11:50 AM

James GangSeems to me, you don't want to talk about it
Seems to me, you just turn your pretty head and walk away...

Now I'm listening to the James Gang.

...Dead Eater High....DDAATT (Do Dark Arts All The Time) teacher.....Ugly is the new pretty...LOL!!! Can't mojo you!

:iSm:'s got some points. The book definitely isn't entertaining enough in it's own right. Same was true of Phoenix IMHO. But I'm ok with the idea of a series.

I'd be very surprised if the last book has low points at all.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-29-2005, 01:01 PM

Ahem, amid all the theories and mysteries and postulations, has anyone ever considered that this was a really crummy book?

We'll just have to disagree, sweets. It's probably my favorite next to Azkaban. I loved it.

innerSpaceman

07-29-2005, 02:49 PM

OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame.

Of course, I could enjoy going along with Harr, and Ron and Herm as they read the phone book in rounds, but I really was getting a little annoyed with how little was happening in this book - that I knew, per the Potter pattern, was all being saved for the last 50 pages.

Those last pages were among the best Potter pages ever written, and of course I loved them. Still, considering the special non-Dursley intro and the thread of evil-Snape vs. trusted-Snape wound all through the book, I really was pissed at more complication on this front rather than even semi-resolution. I don't like cliff-hangers in novels that come out every few years ... and I hate when an artist appears to hold back on the present to attempt a more thrilling potential future. I personally think it's a recipe for artistic failure, but we shall see.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

07-29-2005, 03:36 PM

OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame.

Oh, do shut up, you!

I liked the lulls. And I really loved her language in this book, and the lack of ALL CAP HARRY! Her prose was improved and I expected that resolution of the most important elements in the novels wouldn't come until Book 7. I like pining for the resolution. I'd hate to have it all figured out before the end.

I also laughed out loud a lot more while reading this book. There were many funny concepts and lines. I was much pleased.

Now, leave me be!

innerSpaceman

07-29-2005, 05:27 PM

Fine. Go ahead and enjoy the trashy children's literature.

When did it become ok to have the cliffhanger not solved in the following Saturday's matinee serial episode, nor even at the start-up of September's new television season, but frelling years and years from the end of the last chapter? This is a horrible trend, especially for the ADD generation.

And the nagging questions and precipice-clinging ending of Book 6 is going to make me impatient during the viewing of Movie 4, as if I am being forced to watch the Potter past in slow motion rather than my much desired Trelawney-forseen future.

(BTW, didn't Harry leave Trelawney routed to the spot on his orders, and we never saw her again? I assume she must have been at the funeral, but it wasn't really mentioned. D'ya suppose she could still be in the hallway outside the RofR sipping sherry?)

Name

07-29-2005, 07:32 PM

I blame the X-files, I think they still have loose ends that have never been tied in that series.

DisneyFan25863

08-02-2005, 10:25 PM

Snape Snape Kill Dumb le dore dore kill dumb le dore dore (http://whatisdumbledore.ytmnd.com/)

Sorry, its hilarious.

Ghoulish Delight

08-03-2005, 09:03 AM

I finished reading yesterday. I'll leave in depth discussion/speculation to the experts. I've read through each book exactly once and don't know the minutia well enough to discuss much.

I enjoyed it, significantly more than I enjoyed book 4. Of course, I'm a big Empire Strikes Back fan, so it's no surprise that I look at iSm's scathing review and say, "Hell yeah, that's what I like about this one!" Expositional, really pushes the story forward, perhaps not a lot of action (but good action when it's there), and ends on downer. My kind of sequel.

I'm not fan of the miscommunicaiton/misunderstanding genre of romance, so the Ron and Hermione thing bugged me. But it's such a common device in all fiction everywhere that I ignore it now.

I think this book had a good mixture of things that she gave you enough clues to figure out and things that she gave you enough clues to lead you astray. For instance, I figured out early on that it was Dumbledore that Malfoy was supposed to kill (confirmed when the bottle of wine meant for Dumbledore was poisoned) and that Snape was the Half Blood Prince (who else would be that good at potions...and she was hinting way to strongly for it to be Harry's mom). Conversely, I was expecting Ginny to die (I knew someone was going to die), and I was expecting it to be revealed that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore (which presumeably would take precedent over any contradictary Vow he makes afterwards). Of course, based on some theories, that may still be true.

One point of contention I had was that during the there were 3, count them, 3 people under the effects of the luck potion outside the Room of Requirement. 3. And Malfoy was able to successfully get past them with no problem. I found that a little odd. The extent of their luck was the killing curses didn't hit them, but we were shown with Harry's experience that they SHOULD have been able to intuitively avoid something like Malfoy's little darkness trick thanks to the potion. (I didn't go through all the spoilers in the other thread, so forgive me, and link me, if this has been discussed).

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

08-03-2005, 10:51 AM

It hasn't been discussed. I think it probably just gave priority to not getting killed. Also, they probably took smaller doses, and I think that's has an effect on how much luck you have. I'm not sure. Good point, though. It may also hint that they weren't in as much danger (from Malfoy, for example) as one might suppose.

Cadaverous Pallor

08-03-2005, 11:30 AM

Wanna buy a T-Shirt? (http://www.tshirthell.com/dumbledore.htm)

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

08-03-2005, 11:35 AM

I saw that a few days ago. I thought, "Wow, if I'd seen someone with that shirt on, and hadn't read the book yet, I think I might have actually murdered them."

It made me laugh, though.

libraryvixen

08-03-2005, 11:50 AM

Okay, ready for an admission of epic proportions?

I told fvcktard the end of the book, knowing full well he's listening to it on tape.

But, I did make sure that the only person who could hear was him. After all, I didn't want to ruin it for anyone else! :evil:

Keelboat Captain

08-08-2005, 05:07 PM

Hello All, Saw this on the Mugglenet web site,
http://www.mugglenet.com/mugglecast/

Not Afraid

08-08-2005, 05:12 PM

I'm not reading this thread. I'm just here to say, it's Christmas and they're at the Hovel or the Burrow or, whatever it's called.

Is is possible I figured out who the Half Blood Prince is? I mean, it seems pretty obvious. Too obvious.

Otherwise, Lalalalalalalalalalalalalaala.

sleepyjeff

08-08-2005, 09:50 PM

JK, bless her, is just a bit disingenuous. She has also said that she hasn't finished the LOTR, but come on- does anyone believe that? Her books, while wonderfully imaginitive and engrossing, owe a hell of a lot to Tolkein's. ...

....and Dickens(especially David Copperfield).

Mousey Girl

08-08-2005, 09:55 PM

This has got to be (http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/398-harrypottersbroomstick.htm) one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. (right after Df's song)

wendybeth

08-08-2005, 10:16 PM

....and Dickens(especially David Copperfield).

Definitely. Good point, Jeff. I love Dickens, particularily David Copperfield, but I really hadn't made the connection before.

(Lol! Good one, Mousey Girl!)

sleepyjeff

08-08-2005, 10:59 PM

Definitely. Good point, Jeff. I love Dickens, particularily David Copperfield, but I really hadn't made the connection before.

Some of the many similarities include Loss of Parents early on; Living with cruel and uncaring guardians; going away to a school; The uncanny similarities between Filch and Creakle though are what really makes me think she must have read and re-read DC over and over again.........

Then there is this......

Before Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings were made into films....there was this. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/archive/programs/davidcopperfield/whos_who_credits.html)

wendybeth

08-08-2005, 11:22 PM

Hmmm...So, Hagrid is actually...Peggoty?

Wonder if Madame Maxime is 'willing'?;)

sleepyjeff

08-08-2005, 11:46 PM

Hmmm...So, Hagrid is actually...Peggoty?

Wonder if Madame Maxime is 'willing'?;)

I don't know about that but I did notice Sir Cadogan, The Fat lady, Madame Hooch, Professor McCoganal, and Harry.......and of course Gandalf from LOTR.

Not Afraid

08-15-2005, 01:25 PM

Ahem, amid all the theories and mysteries and postulations, has anyone ever considered that this was a really crummy book?

I liked this book! It was MUCH better then the last one (which bored me to tears). I felt this story, the writing, the situations were much more mature and flushed out.

Just my thoughts after the read:

If Draco has killed Dumbledore, I believe his "death" would've been permanent. Because Dumbledore spent so much time talking with Draco then begged Snape to kill him seems to indicate that his "death" is of a less permanent sort. I do believe he died, but I don't believe it is permanent at all. The Phoenix in the smoke reference confirmed that for me. He will return from the dead. It's all magic, you know.

Snape IS a double agent. The extremity of Harry's active hate for Snape throughout the books gives it away for me. He hated Voldemort and Draco too, but it seems to be such a competative thing with Snape. I think Snape plays the hate card on purpose to keep his "cover". It is just too manipulative.

I'm glad Harry is leaving school, but this conclusion was actually more shocking to me then Dumbledor's death. Is he really ready to go out on his own and do what's necessary to exterminate Voldie? I'm glad he got to apperate once by himself in an important and stressful scieniero.

Me, too! That's what I thought Dumbledore meant, as well. He's going to turn into a wreck of a grown up, that Dudley. They've ruined him. But Heidi wonders what it was that got Dudley so horribly upset when the Dementor's attack. They seem to work best against those who have had a tragic or disturbing past, so maybe there *is*more to what Dumbledore had to say. Rowling's answered a lot of questions recently and I'm surprised none of them were about the Dudley/Dumbledore thing.

I'm with Heidi on this part. There's something going on there that is much more than we're seeing. I bet lots more will be revealed here about the Dursley's "powers".

As for the other minutea, I could barely remember what happened in the last book at the end let alone minutea. I really should re-read the books before a new one is released so I'm on the same page when it starts out. But, not gonna happen. I put a lot of trust in the fact that Rowlings will replay things to jog our memories - and I was right for much of it.

I'm sure as I read more missed discussion my thoughts will be jarred about other things, but this is just what's left in my brain after finishing at 4 am.

Good, quick read though. I'm very pleased from a readers' standpoint.

wendybeth

08-15-2005, 02:01 PM

Oh, Dudders was just reliving the awful experience of having to give up his second bedroom. ;)

JK has firmly stated that Aunt Petunia is non-magical, or at least not a squib, but what about the other Evans'? Is it established or just assumed that Lily was an aberration in an otherwise totally Muggle family? I am heading off to the Lexicon to see what I can see, but I think that the whole Dudley/dementor thing is a non-issue. They state during the hearing that Muggles can sense dementors, and be affected by them- look at the dementor induced miasma that is afflicting the Muggle world in book six. He was almost lip-locked (or snogged-lol) by the dementor- of course he would be uncomfortable.

(Edit)
Okay- checked the Lexicon, and nowhere does it state that they are one or the other, just that they were "delighted to have a witch in the family".. Could be one is a Muggle, and the other magical- otherwise, why the 'delight'? Remember when Neville was thought to be a squib, and how ecstatic his family was when he started showing magical abilities? I wonder if a mixed parent family can have a non-magical member who is just that- not a squib, like Filch. JK emphatically states that Petunia is not a squib, so ....(sigh) Off to the Lexicon again.......:rolleyes: