Pat Robertson - Aren't you glad he's on ABC Family?

[flippyshark]

I usually tend to shy away from political and religious discussion unless asked, but I can't imagine too many people think this little rant of Pat's is a good thing. He's asking the government to carry out an illegal assasination, for Pete's sake.

Anyway, at this link, there is video of Pat in action, and a link allowing those interested to express their concern to ABC Family. (They're contractually obligated to air 700 Club.)

Pat Robertson has lost his WWJD bracelet (http://mediamatters.org/items/200508220006)

[€uroMeinke]

So, ethicly speaking there shouldn't be an issue of someone assasinating an advocate of assasination - it's just a corallary of the Golden Rule right?

[Gemini Cricket]

So, this whole assassination thing...

:scratching head:

it's not very Christian, is it?

This should be the part where the followers of the 700 Club and other Christian groups speak out and say that he doesn't represent them 100%... But I have a feeling we won't be hearing that...

[Prudence]

I'm sure there will be some sort of "eye for an eye" justification. It amazes me how many fundamentalist groups trot out OT rules when it suits them, but when the rules are inconvenient exclaim that Jesus said the OT rules were no longer required. Big fans of having cake and eating it, too, they are.

[Monorail Man]

Ugh. I always catch "700 Club" when I leave "Whose Line?" on for too long. Glad I don't have a Nelison box.

[Stan4dSteph]

That guy is a NUTJOB!

[TigerLily]

it's not very Christian, is it?



I'm not sure. Do christians only follow the new testament?...if so then probably not, but in the old testament god did order the people to go into the land of milk and honey (??...what is that anyway??) and kill every man, woman and child. I think they only follow the "big" stories of the old testament now......either way i agree the guy is over the top...

[Ghoulish Delight]

but in the old testament god did order the people to go into the land of milk and honey (??...what is that anyway??) and kill every man, woman and child. He can come talk to me when he's got video of a burning, talking bush (and I don't mean an efigy of our President with a digital voice recording)

[Not Afraid]

When I was growing up Fundie, I learned all about both testaments but the key difference was that Jesus Saves in the Newbie Testie and, those poor souls of old didn't have Jebus. So, anything God said goes.

[Name]

After reading a bit of the site, Thanks FlippyShark, ran across this bit, found it funny...

From http://mediamatters.org/items/200508190011

Pat Robertson bears false witness against Sen. Boxer

Pat Robertson's 2004 book The Ten Offenses (Integrity Publishers, January 2004) devoted a section of a chapter titled "Tell the Truth" to "The Ninth Commandment and the Media." On page 183, Robertson described a "flagrant" violation of the Ninth Commandment:


Just a few days before I finished writing this book, Les Moonves, the president of CBS Television, pulled from the lineup a so-called documentary about former president Ronald Reagan that demeaned the reputation of this great president. ... [H]e was shown as a bumbling dolt saying something that he had never said in his life. ... While this aged man is suffering from Alzheimer's disease in the twilight of his life, a film producer bears false witness against him, puts words in his mouth that he never spoke, and seeks to destroy his legacy and reputation. A more flagrant violation of the Ninth Commandment would be hard to find.

Two pages later, Robertson explained just how serious such a violation is:


[T]hose who spread falsehoods against others ... are acting like the devil himself. Those who break the Ninth Commandment are in essence taking on the very nature of the devil.

It's clear, then, that Pat Robertson is strongly, deeply opposed to depicting a public figure "saying something that he had never said in his life" -- he considers such an act the work of the "devil himself."

Or does he?

On August 15, Robertson appeared on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, where he said of Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), "I'm absolutely appalled at what she had to say. I don't know if you read all the transcripts. ... But she says first, 'I've got to wait on Ralph Neas of the People for the American Way to see what he says about it.' She's supposed to be a senator from the biggest state in America. And then she says, 'I'm going to follow the lead of Chuck Schumer. I trust him.' And he's the senator from New York, of course."

There's only one problem: Boxer never said those words in her life, as Media Matters revealed Robertson was apparently relying on a post on the weblog Radio Blogger, which purported to offer a "translation" of Boxer's comments. The "translation" was actually an obvious gross distortion of Boxer's comments -- but Robertson put Radio Blogger's words in Boxer's mouth.

Surely, then, Robertson quickly atoned for his sins and rededicated himself to faithfully following the Ninth Commandment?

Nope.

On the August 18 edition of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club, Robertson again falsely quoted Boxer as saying "I've got to consult with Ralph Neas to see what stand to take on this nominee [John Roberts]." Robertson also claimed that Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) is "without question the most doctrinaire left-wing radical in the United States Senate. ... he is a radical leftist who is now proven to be a puppet of Ralph Neas of People for the American Way."

Leahy, the "most doctrinaire left-wing radical in the United States Senate"? That can't be right, can it? Well, no -- not according to the Christian Coalition of America, anyway. The coalition -- which, incidentally, Robertson founded -- argues that "[w]e must see the political tide of this nation continue to turn away from liberalism." To that end, it produces "scorecards" that rate senators' voting records. The coalition gave Leahy a score of 16 in 2004. That's low, to be sure -- but 29 Senators got a zero, including Leahy's fellow Vermonter, independent Jim Jeffords, and that noted left-wing radical Joe Lieberman. Far from being "without question the most doctrinaire left-wing radical in the United States Senate," according to the Christian Coalition's most recent ratings, Leahy isn't even the "most doctrinaire left-wing radical" among senators from Vermont.

But what's a little rhetorical excess to make a point? Surely there's nothing wrong with Robertson's tiny little exaggeration; overstating Leahy's supposed extremism is well within the bounds of reasonable discourse, right? Let's turn to page 181 of Robertson's The Ten Offenses for an answer:


Falsely labeling a public figure "hard right-wing," "an extremist," or "an intractable obstructionist" when those descriptions do not clearly fit violates the [Ninth] commandment.

Looks like Robertson needs to read his own book.

[wendybeth]

I'm not sure. Do christians only follow the new testament?...if so then probably not, but in the old testament god did order the people to go into the land of milk and honey (??...what is that anyway??) and kill every man, woman and child. I think they only follow the "big" stories of the old testament now......either way i agree the guy is over the top...
Christians, by definition, are followers of Christ and as such supposedly hold His word as law. Except when it's inconvenient, of course.

[€uroMeinke]

I know of at least on Christian who is an athiest

[wendybeth]

Eric follows the Agnostic Dyslexic doctrine- he's not sure there really is a Dog.

[scaeagles]

As someone who professes to be a Christian (though I am far from exemplary in my attempts to be one), I find what he said to be destestable.

I will speak up and say I do not agree with it. I will speak up and say I wish he would come out and say how wrong he was to even suggest such a thing. I will say that I am saddened that he is held up as a voice of those who supposedly speak for Christians.

I think the media bestows certain status on willing individuals to become "spokesmen" for "their cause" or "their race". Jesse Jackson. Pat Robertson. Patricia Ireland. They are most often completely out of step with what the majority of who they are supposed to be speaking for believe or want. It is an attempt to quantify into segments various portions of the populace. "All Christians think like this" or "all women want this" or "all black people believe this". It is racism, sexism, and....religion-ism to to a despicable degree.

I reject what Robertson said, as I would suspect a tremendous majority of Christians do. As someone who has been portrayed as speaking for for folks like me, I am afraid that he makes me and everyone else striving to be Christian look like lunatics.

Edited to add: ah, never mind. I can't word it properly.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Eric follows the Agnostic Dyslexic doctrine- he's not sure there really is a Dog.Reminds me of one of my favorite Kids in the Hall sketches.

[€uroMeinke]

I think the media bestows certain status on willing individuals to become "spokesmen" for "their cause" or "their race". Jesse Jackson. Pat Robertson. Patricia Ireland. They are most often completely out of step with what the majority of who they are supposed to be speaking for believe or want. It is an attempt to quantify into segments various portions of the populace. "All Christians think like this" or "all women want this" or "all black people believe this". It is racism, sexism, and....religion-ism to to a despicable degree.


Here here - certainly a failure on the medias's part, but I know how they love to have icons, simple stories, and a sensational headline - Sadly these people know how to work it as well.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It doesn't help when you have someone like Robertson who, long before the worst of the media sensationalism, did all he could to put himself in that position. I have a hard time blaming the media when it's exactly what he wanted from the beginning, and when he created his own media outlets to make it so.

[wendybeth]

Reminds me of one of my favorite Kids in the Hall sketches.

I love that show!!!

Isn't Robertson the one who had a meltdown on tv and blamed the 9/11 attacks on a vengeful God out to punish us all for suffering the heathens and gays to live? I'm too lazy to Google it, but it seems his style.

[Not Afraid]

No no no. Wasn't that Jim Baker. Or was it that guy who got caught with a prostitute and porn. Something with an S.....

Man! Are they all slimey?

[wendybeth]

No, it was Jerry Falwell. Pat did agree with him, though. Here's some fun stuff from Wikipedia: PR-Nutjob (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=pat+robertson&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D6 f6bfecd1450016%26clickedItemRank%3D8%26userQuery%3 Dpat%2Brobertson%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F %252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FPat_Robertson%2 6invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Pat_Robertson) . Scroll down to the 'Controversial figure' portion of the article.:rolleyes:

[wendybeth]

Heh heh...something tells me that Pat has stock in mid-east oil: Chavez offers cheap gas to U.S. poor (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/index.html) .

I realise Chavez is a loon himself, but there are a great many poor people in this country, and the numbers are growing. Bush would do well to read up on history, particularily revolutionary histories.

[scaeagles]

It doesn't help when you have someone like Robertson who, long before the worst of the media sensationalism, did all he could to put himself in that position. I have a hard time blaming the media when it's exactly what he wanted from the beginning, and when he created his own media outlets to make it so.

Please note that I said "willing individuals". They want to spout off as an expert or a representative, and the media then chooses to promote them whether the individual has any credibility or not.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I posted this on another board. It's some of his more interesting quotes.


You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them.



The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.



God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."



Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together.



If the widespread practice of homosexuality will bring about the destruction of your nation, if it will bring about terrorist bombs, if it'll bring about earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor, it isn't necessarily something we ought to open our arms to.


I think "one man, one vote," just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights.

I don't think it is entirely the medias fault that this guy has the reputation that he does. Still, I am amazed at the amount of people that actually listen to this guy.

[Betty]

What ever happened to the very basic rule of Thou Shall Not Kill?

What an f-ing hypocrit!

And those quotes from him MBC! OMG! Talk about looney!

[scaeagles]

Well, really, it's a commandment against murdering, not killing. Plenty of killing in the OT as the Isrealites were on their conquest of Canaan.

[sleepyjeff]

Gosh, a conservative advocating an allternative to war.........what a creep :rolleyes:

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Were we planning on going to war with Venezuela?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Gosh, a conservative advocating an allternative to war.........what a creep :rolleyes:Yes, because we all know that political assassinations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria) are a completely moral and effective means of preventing war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I).

[Nephythys]

For the record- anyone who is actually honest should be able to admit that we all "conveniently" forget things, or change the rules sometimes....I get a little tired of the implication that some people do not, but Christians always do.....
Broad brush strokes there-

FWIW- I certainly think he has gone round some bend.....though I suppose arguments could be made for gov't sanctioned assassinations. But I am not going to make them-

[DisneyProposer]

and Disney is contractually obligated to leave him on forever. THey bought the station from him and it is written into the contract that he can never ben cancelled or pulled.

Also, Robertson receives $50,000 annually from the Faith Based Initiative.

[scaeagles]

Well, political assassinations......would Cuba and Cubans be better off should Castro have been assassinated or if the Bay of Pigs had actually been successful?

I suppose it all comes down to whether it is acceptable to use that which is immoral to attempt to move toward that which is more moral. Age old argument of end justifying the means. And, as the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand (didn't even need to read your links, GD, as that is certainly what touched off WWI and what I assume you are referring to) demonstrates, the outcome is not always what you viewed the outcome would be.

Julius Ceasar would be another such example. I picture Marc Anthony's speech - "But he was an ambitious man!" spoken sarcastically to incite the crowd.

Better the devil you know, I suppose. But I will add that there comes a point at which the assassination of someone may actually become the moral thing to do. If Pol Pot had been assassinated, would that have been immoral? Subtitute your favorite despot or dictator for Pol Pot.

[wendybeth]

For the record- anyone who is actually honest should be able to admit that we all "conveniently" forget things, or change the rules sometimes....I get a little tired of the implication that some people do not, but Christians always do.....
Broad brush strokes there-

FWIW- I certainly think he has gone round some bend.....though I suppose arguments could be made for gov't sanctioned assassinations. But I am not going to make them-

If, by the convenience remark you are referring to my post, I don't make a living off of my religion, and I don't have any influence over any segment of the population. (I can't even get my animals to stay off the furniture). I also do not go around proclaiming my superiority due to the religion I belong to, and I don't recall having said anything about never making mistakes or 'sinning', as it were. Pat Robertson is a visible figure in the religous political arena, and if he is going to put this sort of crap out there, I think he is fair game and should be accountable for his actions and statements.

As far as government sanctioned assassinations, is it really any different than assassinations in general? Would the same person that espoused the murder of Idi Amin think that Abe Lincoln's murder was justified? It's all about perspective, I suppose.

[Nephythys]

If, by the convenience remark you are referring to my post, I don't make a living off of my religion, and I don't have any influence over any segment of the population. (I can't even get my animals to stay off the furniture). I also do not go around proclaiming my superiority due to the religion I belong to, and I don't recall having said anything about never making mistakes or 'sinning', as it were. Pat Robertson is a visible figure in the religous political arena, and if he is going to put this sort of crap out there, I think he is fair game and should be accountable for his actions and statements.

As far as government sanctioned assassinations, is it really any different than assassinations in general? Would the same person that espoused the murder of Idi Amin think that Abe Lincoln's murder was justified? It's all about perspective, I suppose.

LOL- your post inspired mine, but was not a personal indictment (love the animal comment) and I sure don't disagree that he is fair game....I was just thinking that you could put pretty much any group in your post- and it would be true-
I don't know enough about the ins and outs of assassinations- that is why I will certainly leave those debates to others.

[wendybeth]

Fair enough, Nephytys! It's true that just about any group could be defined as such. Must come with being human.

It seems Pat is denying calling for an assassination: I didn't say that! (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166642,00.html) , however, the article points out that he did indeed say that during the broadcast. Further, he blames the media for all the negative attention. What a weasel- if you're going to go out on a limb and say something that you truly believe, at least have the courage to stick to your guns. Claiming you didn't say what you really did say, especially when it's being recorded, is just idiotic.

[Prudence]

I particularly like the idea that it's so much better that he's just advocating kidnapping. Murder would be bad but kidnapping? Hey! That's just great!

Here's my moral relativism of the day:
Of course it would be naive to think that such things (murder, kidnapping, etc) were not sponsored by the various governments of the world. They do happen. And in some cases, hindsight allows us the benefit of marking them as "good." Or at least "better than the alternative."

But it's one thing to know the such things happen, and it's quite another for a very public figure in a very public forum to go around advocating for such actions.

No, in the end it doesn't matter whether it was talked about first or just done. It doesn't make "taking out" any more moral if we don't talk about it. But when public figures shift from being uncomfortable with discussing the subject in public to outright advocation I think that does say something about our society. It's one thing to do an "evil" deed reluctantly. It's quite another to do it enthusiastically.

[wendybeth]

Well, it seems he has decided to own up and apologise (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/) . Fair enough- it seems reasonably delivered and he doesn't try to reduce it with excuses too much. I still despise him, but I think he finally got around to doing the right thing, whatever his motives.

[scaeagles]

I can accept that. I say things out of frustration on occassion, and he does not try to blame anyone else. Now about the rest of the list of quotes that MBC posted....

[Scrooge McSam]

:eek:

See what I miss when I take off to DC!!!!

Anyway, Robertson? Is anybody really surprised at what he said?

Really?

;) The guy's a nut.

I'm kinda amused at all the media attention he's getting.

Oh, and Wendybeth? Kidnapping is still A-OK ! Don't you feel better?

[wendybeth]

Lol, Scrooge! Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't expressed a desire to kidnap those troublesome Communist Feminist Lesbians he speaks of so often. They're destroying our country, don't you know.....:rolleyes:

[Scrooge McSam]

Give him time. I expect him to get much more entertaining as he slips further into old age.

He's the gift that just keeps giving.

[Prudence]

Lesbian left-handed albino midget Eskimos? Definitely kidnap them.

[Scrooge McSam]

Well, YEAH, if they're left handed!

[sleepyjeff]

Yes, because we all know that political assassinations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria) are a completely moral and effective means of preventing war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I).

um........good point, but that War(WWI) was going to happen whether or not the Archduke was capped or not. Some things are just not avoidable.

[Ghoulish Delight]

um........good point, but that War(WWI) was going to happen whether or not the Archduke was capped or not. Some things are just not avoidable.
Perhaps, but assassination was hardly a deterent.

[PanTheMan]

Give him time. I expect him to get much more entertaining as he slips further into old age.

He's the gift that just keeps giving.


On a 'Sort-Of' side note, I have found that quite a few "Christians" go through a type of "Near the End of Life Crisis" when it is obvious that they might pass on anyday now without seeing "The Rapture" or Jesus riding out of the clouds on a White Horse hurling lightning bolts at all the Sinners.

As Brother Pat Continues to Pray for More Hurricanes, Earthquakes, and Meteors flung from above, remember, No One Here Gets Out Alive.