God takes a swipe at Osama...

[PanTheMan]

S. Asia Quake Hits Area Where Osama Hides

WASHINGTON - No evidence suggests that the deadly earthquake that rocked Pakistan on Saturday injured or killed the world's top terror leader, Osama bin Laden.

The quake shook the border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan, where bin Laden is hiding. However, authorities at this point have no information indicating he's been injured or killed, said a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the information's sensitivity.

Bin Laden guided the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks aimed at New York City and Washington.


WOW..We know where he is, We Wont go there and get him, and according to THIS article HE was behind the 9/11 attacks, Not Saddam.... How about that? Think someone should tell Bush? I know Bush Said he was no longer concerned with Osama, "didn't think about him much" but I'm sure the families of those injured and Killed on 9/11 think about asshola Bin Laden everyday.

I know it serves Bushes porpose to keep the 'Boogy Man' out there, but he might want to rethink that looking at his poll numbers.

[PanTheMan]

oh...and I titled this thread as such seeing Religious leaders think God is nailing the US, why not Osama too?

[Name]

God only nailed one person as far as I know, and that was Mary..... :p

[scaeagles]

I don't think that Bush ever said Saddam was behind 9/11. Can you show me where he did?

I think he did offer Osama safe harbor. I think Al Zarqawi was living in Baghdad. But surely there were no ties at all.

Never mind. Some things have been gone over a lot of times and it won't do anything to go over it again. Those who know me know where I stand, I know where they stand, and we aren't going to be changing each others minds.

[PanTheMan]

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/14/2003

Quote/Claim:
"It is not surprising that people make that connection [between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks]...we do know [there is a connection]. [Source: Meet the Press transcript]"

[PanTheMan]

I think he did offer Osama safe harbor. I think Al Zarqawi was living in Baghdad. But surely there were no ties at all.


It is believed that Zarqari crossed first into Iran then into Iraq from Afghanistan after we invaded. As for Saddam and Osama being pals, NOTHING could be be further from the truth. Osama thought of Saddam as an infedel and and wanted him dead for his treatment of the Shiite people. Saddam wanted Osama Dead for stirring up theocratic Islamic revolutionary revolts.

This too was from our own CIA, Remember? George Tenant?...the guy who got a medal from Bush?

[scaeagles]

Well, it is a fact that Saddam offered him safe harbor. I didn't say they were pals, did I? But the old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" most certainly applies.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/14/2003

Quote/Claim:
"It is not surprising that people make that connection [between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks]...we do know [there is a connection]. [Source: Meet the Press transcript]"Umm, Pan...if I don't think a quote where the content has been changed is going to exactly cut it as proof. What's the unedited quote, and what's the context?

[scaeagles]

Oh - and regarding the connection - Iraqi intelligence agents did meet with Al Qaida operatives in Europe prior to 9/11.

[PanTheMan]

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/9/2004

Quote/Claim:
"[Saddam Hussein] provided safe harbor and sanctuary…for Al Qaeda. [Source: LA Times, 9/9/04]"

Fact:
"There is no evidence Iraq and al Qaeda ever developed a collaborative operational relationship. - 9/11 Commission Report"



-------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Rice, Condoleezza - National Security Advisor

Date: 9/7/2003

Quote/Claim:
"And there was an Ansar al-Islam, which appears also to try to be operating in Iraq. So yes, the al Qaeda link was there. [Source: Fox News Sunday transcript]"

Fact:
"Ansar al-Islam was based in the Kurdish area of Iraq beyond Saddam Hussein's control. - Waxman Report"

Reference Reference



------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Rice, Condoleezza - National Security Advisor

Date: 9/28/2003

Quote/Claim:
"No one has said that there is evidence that Saddam Hussein directed or controlled 9/11, but let's be very clear, he had ties to al-Qaeda, he had al-Qaeda operatives who had operated out of Baghdad. [Source: Meet the Press transcript]"

Fact:
"CIA interrogators have already elicited from the top Qaeda officials in custody that, before the American-led invasion, Osama bin Laden had rejected entreaties from some of his lieutenants to work jointly with Saddam. - NY Times, 1/15/04

The chairman of the monitoring group appointed by the United Nations Security Council to track Al Qaeda told reporters that his team had found no evidence linking Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein.” - NY Times, 6/27/03"



------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 9/26/2002

Quote/Claim:
"You can't distinguish between al-Qaeda and Saddam.” [Source: White House Web site]"

Fact:
"Three former Bush Administration officials who worked on intelligence and national security issues said the prewar evidence tying Al Qaeda was tenuous, exaggerated and often at odds with the conclusions of key intelligence agencies.” - National Journal, 8/9/03"


--------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 9/23/2003

Quote/Claim:
"The regime of Saddam Hussein cultivated ties to terror while it built weapons of mass destruction.” [Source: White House Web site -- Speech to UN]"

Fact:
"CIA interrogators have already elicited from the top Qaeda officials in custody that, before the American-led invasion, Osama bin Laden had rejected entreaties from some of his lieutenants to work jointly with Saddam. - NY Times, 1/15/04

Nearly a year after U.S. and British troops invaded Iraq, no evidence has turned up to verify allegations of Saddam's links with al-Qaida, and several key parts of the administration's case have either proved false or seem increasingly doubtful. Senior U.S. officials now say there never was any evidence that Saddam's secular police state and Osama bin Laden's Islamic terrorism network were in league. - Knight-Ridder, 3/02/04"



-------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 9/17/2003

Quote/Claim:
"There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties.” [Source: White House Web site]"

Fact:
"Declassified documents undercut Bush administration claims before the war that Hussein had links to al Qaeda.” - LA Times, 7/19/03"



-----------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Coulter, Ann - Political Pundit

Date: 9/17/2003

Quote/Claim:
"Saddam Hussein has harbored, promoted, helped, sheltered al Qaeda members. We know that.” [Source: Salon]"

Fact:
"Senior US officials confirm that they have found no provable connection between Saddam and al Qaeda.” - Miami Herald 3/3/04

The bipartisan September 11th commission report undercuts Bush administration claims before the war that Hussein had links to Al Qaeda.” -LA Times, 7/19/03"



-------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/14/2003

Quote/Claim:
"With respect to 9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohammed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack... [Source: Meet the Press transcript]"

Fact:
"This meeting likely never happened, and Cheney knew it. Czech intelligence officials were skeptical about the report and U.S. intelligence had contradictory evidence, such as records indicating Atta was in Virginia at the time of the meeting; and the C.I.A. and F.B.I. had concluded the meeting probably didn’t occur. - Waxman Report"



-----------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/14/2003

Quote/Claim:
"There was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the ’90s.” [Meet the Press transcript]"

Fact:
"The chairman of the monitoring group appointed by the United Nations Security Council to track al Qaeda told reporters that his team had found no evidence linking al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein.” - NY Times, 6/27/03

U.S. allies have found no links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. 'We have found no evidence of links between Iraq and al Qaeda,' said Europe's top investigator. 'If there were such links, we would have found them. But we have found no serious connections whatsoever.' - LA Times, 11/4/02"



-----------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 6/25/2004

Quote/Claim:
"[Saddam Hussein] had an established relationship with al Qaeda. [Source: Fox News transcript]"

Fact:
"The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no 'collaborative relationship' between Iraq and al Qaeda. - Washington Post, 6/17/04"

[PanTheMan]

--------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 6/18/2004

Quote/Claim:
"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. [Source: Washington Post, 6/18/04]"

Fact:
"The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no ‘collaborative relationship’ between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.” - Washington Post, 6/17/04

We simply did not find any evidence of extensive links with Al Qaeda, or for that matter any real links at all. - Bush Weapons Inspector David Kay, Boston Globe, 6/16/04"



-----------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 6/17/2004

Quote/Claim:
"This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda.” [Source: White House Web site]"

Fact:
"Bush and Cheney also have sought to tie Iraq specifically to the 9/11 attacks. In a letter to Congress on March 19, 2003 — the day the war in Iraq began — Bush said that the war was permitted under legislation authorizing force against those who 'planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.' - USA Today, 6/16/04

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11th, 2001. - President Bush, 5/1/03

[Iraq is] the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.” - Vice President Dick Cheney, 9/14/03"



------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 6/14/2004

Quote/Claim:
"[Saddam] had long established ties with al Qaeda."

Fact:
"There is 'no credible evidence' that Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq collaborated with the al Qaeda terrorist network on any attacks on the United States, including the Sept. 11, 2001 hijackings, according to a new staff report released this morning by the commission investigating the hijacking plot. - Washington Post, 6/16/04

''At various times Al Qaeda people came through Baghdad and in some cases resided there, said David Kay, former head of the CIA's Iraq Survey Group, which searched for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and links to terrorism. ''But we simply did not find any evidence of extensive links with Al Qaeda, or for that matter any real links at all...Cheney's speech is evidence-free. - Boston Globe, 6/16/04"


------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Powell, Colin - Secretary of State

Date: 3/9/2003

Quote/Claim:
"We have seen connections and we are continuing to pursue those connections. . . . And the fact that there is also an al-Qaida connection, I think certainly adds to the case. - [Source: Meet the Press transcript, reprinted in Waxman database]"

Fact:
"The chairman of the monitoring group appointed by the United Nations Security Council to track Al Qaeda told reporters that his team had found no evidence linking Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein.” - NY Times, 6/27/03"



-------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Rice, Condoleezza - National Security Advisor

Date: 3/9/2003

Quote/Claim:
"Now the al-Qaeda is an organization that's quite disbursed and --and quite widespread in its effects, but it clearly has had links to the Iraqis, not to mention Iraqi links to all kinds of other terrorists. - [Source: CBS Face the Nation, reprinted in Waxman database] "

Fact:
"The chairman of the monitoring group appointed by the United Nations Security Council to track Al Qaeda told reporters that his team had found no evidence linking Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein.” - NY Times, 6/27/03

Three former Bush Administration officials who worked on intelligence and national security issues said the prewar evidence tying Al Qaeda was tenuous, exaggerated and often at odds with the conclusions of key intelligence agencies.” - National Journal, 8/9/03

U.S. allies have found no links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. 'We have found no evidence of links between Iraq and Al Qaeda,' said Europe's top investigator. 'If there were such links, we would have found them. But we have found no serious connections whatsoever.' - LA Times, 11/4/02

If you’re asking if there’s a direct link between 9/11 and Iraq, the answer is no. - Donald Rumsfeld, Hardball, 4/29/04"



---------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Woolsey, James - Former CIA Director

Date: 3/28/2004

Quote/Claim:
"But in this case, [Richard Clarke] got locked into the view early on that there was nothing ever, no contacts of any kind between al Qaeda and governments such as Iraq. And so I think he ignored some of the clear evidence that George Tenet spread out before the Senate in 2002 about Iraqi training of al Qaeda in poisons, gases and explosives. [Source: Fox News transcript]"

Fact:
"Three former Bush Administration officials who worked on intelligence and national security issues said the prewar evidence tying Al Qaeda was tenuous, exaggerated and often at odds with the conclusions of key intelligence agencies.” - National Journal, 8/9/03"



-----------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Rice, Condoleezza - National Security Advisor

Date: 3/22/2004

Quote/Claim:
"The president returned to the White House and called me in and said, I've learned from George Tenet that there is no evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11.” [Source: CNN Web site]"

Fact:
"If true, why did the President and Vice President repeatedly claim Saddam Hussein was directly connected to 9/11? President Bush sent a letter to Congress on 3/19/03 saying that the Iraq war was permitted specifically under legislation that authorized force against nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11.” "


-------------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Specter, Arlen - Senator (R-PA)

Date: 3/21/2004

Quote/Claim:
"The Bush administration never made any claim that there was a connection between Saddam and al Qaeda. [Source: CNN Web site]"

Fact:
"[Hussein] also had an established relationship to al Qaeda, providing training to al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons, gases and making conventional bombs. - Dick Cheney, 10/9/03

There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties.” - President Bush, 9/17/03"



-------------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 2/8/2004

Quote/Claim:
"[Iraq] had the capacity to make a weapon and then let that weapon fall into the hands of a shadowy terrorist network. [Source: Meet the Press transcript]"

Fact:
"This assertion belies the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate which told the White House that Iraq would most likely only coordinate with Al Qaeda if the U.S. invaded Iraq. As the NYT reported, [A] CIA assessment said last October: 'Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks' in the United States. The CIA added that Saddam might order attacks with WMD as 'his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him.' Previously, the CIA had told the White House that Iraq has not provided chemical or biological weapons to Al Qaeda or related terrorist groups. And David Kay himself said, I found no real connection between WMD and terrorists in Iraq. - NIE, 2002; NY Times, 2/6/02, 1/29/03; NBC News, 1/26/02"



------------------------------------------------

Topic: Iraq - Al Qaeda Links

Speaker: Bush, George - President

Date: 2/8/2003

Quote/Claim:
"Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in acquiring poisons and gases.” [Source: White House Web site] "

Fact:
"The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no ‘collaborative relationship’ between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.” - Washington Post, 6/17/04

We simply did not find any evidence of extensive links with Al Qaeda, or for that matter any real links at all. - Bush Weapons Inspector David Kay, Boston Globe, 6/16/04"

[PanTheMan]

Please dont tell me you need more, because i have more.....pages and pages of where Bush and Co. Were DEAD WRONG.

As for the Cheney quote, it has been on T.V. so many times, I get sick of seeing it. I guess Fox News doesn't play it though...


Bush and Co. have more Flip-Flops on this issue ALONE than I would think Humanly possible.

[scaeagles]

Pan, I'm glad you have all that compiled. I don't have such things compiled with quotes out there from so many leading democrats asserting the same things, but they do exist and I've listed them before.

Mistakes in intelligence, etc, were certainly made, and i've heard the arguments that sure, the previous administration believed the same things, they just didn't go to war over it, etc.

If you want to believe your posts have made me not want to discuss it, fine. Everyone here that's been around for a while know it's been debated ad infinitum, and it got.....well, tiresome.

So, keep on posting, Pan. I'll opt out this time.

[€uroMeinke]

I don't think God cares much for either side - he just likes to stir the pot every now and then.

[PanTheMan]

"If" God throws things at us like this, it is to test out compassion for one another and our willingness to help the rest of mankind. NOT to punish us.

I believe this goes for Eathquakes, Hurricanes, Tornado's, Aids, cancer, etc...

[innerSpaceman]

there's something about research that I find particularly persuasive. Ya know, investigation and analysis and quotes and findings and such. I think it's science or something, but it works. wow.

[PanTheMan]

Pan, I'm glad you have all that compiled. I don't have such things compiled with quotes out there from so many leading democrats asserting the same things, but they do exist and I've listed them before.

Mistakes in intelligence, etc, were certainly made, and i've heard the arguments that sure, the previous administration believed the same things, they just didn't go to war over it, etc.

If you want to believe your posts have made me not want to discuss it, fine. Everyone here that's been around for a while know it's been debated ad infinitum, and it got.....well, tiresome.

So, keep on posting, Pan. I'll opt out this time.

Regardless of who, what where and why, my original point was never addressed by those of who supprt our fearless leader, Why is Osama 'No Longer of concern" to the President? And if we know he is "OK' after the earthquake, then that means someone must know where he is to be able to make such a claim...

Makes ya think....WATCH OUT! ....Boogy man will get ya! (Be ready for a WAVE of 'Code Oranges' before the elections in '06 too)

[Name]

"If" God throws things at us like this, it is to test out compassion for one another and our willingness to help the rest of mankind. NOT to punish us.

I believe this goes for Eathquakes, Hurricanes, Tornado's, Aids, cancer, etc...
You MUST be reading a different bible then I am, because the God in my bible seems to be quite capable of throwing such things at us as punishment.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And if we know he is "OK' after the earthquake, then that means someone must know where he is to be able to make such a claim...Hmm, no. All it means is that they got information that he's okay. Could have been an intercepted, untraced, communication, an informant, discovery of where he was 2 days ago. None of that means we know where he is now.

[PanTheMan]

You MUST be reading a different bible then I am, because the God in my bible seems to be quite capable of throwing such things at us as punishment.

Sorry to hear you have such an angry, vengeful, and downright mean God. I will have Jesus talk to him about that whole 'Love and Forgiveness thing" But it is nice to know that whole part where Jesus says the old laws are tossed aside in his name, has been "Overlooked" when it is neccesary to scare up some Church Donations.

[PanTheMan]

Hmm, no. All it means is that they got information that he's okay. Could have been an intercepted, untraced, communication, an informant, discovery of where he was 2 days ago. None of that means we know where he is now.

Got Duct tape? Saran Wrap?.....good.... Now Stay Scared like they tell you.

[BarTopDancer]

Those who know me know where I stand

I forget. Was that infront of or behind LickyLumbo? :p