View Full Version : Librarians everywhere hate me
tracilicious
10-24-2005, 08:31 AM
Because not only do I return books extremely late and accrue massive fines, I also send them on wild goose chases to find author's that don't exist.
Friday night, via YM, I mentioned to Not Afraid that I recently finished Time Traveler's Wife By Audrey Niffeneger (recommended to me by EH1812, and it's a super book). I've only read non-fiction since then, but told NA that I'm ready to start another novel. She so graciously points me towards a Japanese author that she and Euro have enjoyed. The amazon review looked just my kind of interesting, but I've bought way too many books on amazon lately, and I just wasn't sure my marriage could survive another. Thankfully I had a library trip planned for the weekend anyways. The next day I called the library, and yes, they had several books by that author in stock. Woo-hoo!
Excited about a new book prospect (these things really are like relationships, you know), I dropped off Michael, Indi and the baby in the kids section. He really is the best husband Have I mentioned that? And head over to the H's. It occurs to me that I can't remember if it's Harukami or Hurakami. No bother, I'll just check both. What? It isn't in either place? But the librarian told me they had several in stock. Ok, I'll check the computer.
Nothing here either? I must be searching wrong. I'll just ask the librarian at the help desk. That's what they're for, right?
Excuse me. I'm looking for an author. I called yesterday and was told you carry his books, but I can't seem to find any in adult fiction. It's Harukami. H-a-r-u-k-a-m-i. No? Try H-u-r-a-k-a-m-i. I might be transversing the letters. Not that either? I'm positive it's one of those. I was told just yesterday that you had it.
So she (the she in question was a very manish looking lady with a manish haircut and man clothes, there's nothing wrong with being a butch lesbian librarian, I'm just adding that for the sake of description) sighs and starts to look on Amazon. Isn't it funny that libraries search Amazon for books? I think so.
She puts in every possible combination of Harukami. Now, several times by now I had said, "Thank you!" with the intent of walking away as to not waste all her time. Yet she kept intently searching, as if it was a personal battle (and to be honest I was convinced she just wasn't a very good searcher and I was going to continue the quest on my own). Every once in a while she would pause to give me that superior look that only librarians and school nurses can muster. (And no offense to my LoT librarian friends, I'm sure you would never give anyone that look. ;) )
The title had a bird in it...Bird on a String! Yes, that's it. Do you have that? No? No, it's definitely not Bird on a Wire. Are you sure it's not there? He's apparently a very well known Japanese author...Do you have google? Maybe we should try google. I don't want to monopolize all your time, I'll just go look on the shelves again...Oh, ok, we can keep searching.
I consider myself to be somewhat of a master googler. I can find just about anything with the help of my good friend google. About our fifth phrase search I see a name. I just can't believe it. I'm not that stupid. There's no possible way I'm that stupid.
Murakami! There it is! It was an M! I can't believe it. I'm sorry. I would have sworn on my life it was an H! Guess I should write it down next time. heh heh.
So she's laughing, and it's not a good natured laugh. It was an "I'm gonna tell all my librarians friends about what an idiot you are as soon as you walk away from this desk" kind of laugh. I'm laughing, because although extremely embarrassed, I can laugh at myself for being an idiot. After all, I should have written it down. She checks the library catalog for the new, correct author and sees a long list of books.
Wind Up Bird Chronicles! Yes that's it! How could I have forgotten that. Librarians everywhere hate me!
She laughingly declares, "Yes we do!"
As I walk away to find my books I see her turn to her librarian friend to recount her "dumb patron of the library" tale.
So there you have it. Librarians everywhere hate me. It's been confirmed.
Gemini Cricket
10-24-2005, 08:37 AM
I'm sure CP doesn't hate you. :)
Maybe librarians like you even more for giving them something to do AND raising money for the library w/ your late fees.
:D
Just a thought.
(btw - I was just thinking. It's been a loooong time since I've been to the library.)
€uroMeinke
10-24-2005, 09:35 AM
But you are soon to be initiated into the secret society of Murakami lovers, which gives instant cache among the hiden intelligensia of the service industry.
Whe we were last in Chicago, in an upscale chocolate shop we noticed the sales girls had a dog-eared copy of the Wind up Bird Chronicle behind thge register. A casual remark about how delightful we found the book and we found ourselves, discussing the Murikami ouvre, all the while surrounded by exotic chocolates.
Someday, this librarian will realize the profound moment that passed between you and will momentarily blush in shame the very moment you taste a "Black Perl" truffle, dark chocoalte with black seasame seeds and a hint of wasabi.
Balance will once again be restored.
wendybeth
10-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Lol! Now all we need is for CP to come back from Paris and tell us that that she heard the funniest Dumb Patron story while visiting the Bibliotheque Nationale de France.......:D
tracilicious
10-24-2005, 10:53 AM
But you are soon to be initiated into the secret society of Murakami lovers, which gives instant cache among the hiden intelligensia of the service industry.
Whe we were last in Chicago, in an upscale chocolate shop we noticed the sales girls had a dog-eared copy of the Wind up Bird Chronicle behind thge register. A casual remark about how delightful we found the book and we found ourselves, discussing the Murikami ouvre, all the while surrounded by exotic chocolates.
Someday, this librarian will realize the profound moment that passed between you and will momentarily blush in shame the very moment you taste a "Black Perl" truffle, dark chocoalte with black seasame seeds and a hint of wasabi.
Balance will once again be restored.
Thanks, that's a comforting thought. The hidden intelligensia of the service community is my favorite kind. The most intelligent people I've known have worked at the lowest ranking jobs. It seems as though the bookstore, coffee shop, chocolate shop, etc. employees have read the best books, have their finger on the pulse of the underground art and music communities, etc. I know that when I was making near minimum wage at a used bookstore I was more intellectually stimulated than at any higher paying job. Plus, when you're poor you can be smart and thumb your nose at the opulent middle class.
Chronicles of a Wind Up Bird, and most of his other titles were at another branch, so I ended up with Kafka on the Shore. I've only read the first chapter and so far I'm clueless as to what it's about. I've avoided reading the jacket description so I can read it as though I'm walking through a maze. I don't know where it ends and I have no idea how I'm going to get there. That's something I find I can do only with new-to-me author's who use obscure titles. It's like an adventure.
I'm not sure the librarian will ever feel that twinge of shame, but I'm all for the exotic chocolate. ;)
tracilicious
10-24-2005, 11:04 AM
I'm sure CP doesn't hate you. :)
Maybe librarians like you even more for giving them something to do AND raising money for the library w/ your late fees.
Err...I might have failed to mention that I have unpaid library fines and this was a completely new library. :blush:
I was regretting that CP wasn't here to read this and now that I've admitted that I'm glad! :blush: :blush:
Not Afraid
10-24-2005, 11:18 AM
Ahhhhhh but LibraryVixen will cw checking in soon.....
libraryvixen
10-24-2005, 01:59 PM
All librarians do not hate you! I know I don't!
In my experience answering reference questions, I use Amazon to see if the book is in print or not. It's the fastest way I can get an answer. Also, it's good that you had a lot of information to give the librarian. :) It's helpful, even if it's not accurate. Sometimes it's that little somehting that might jog our brains. Google is nice because of the spell check feature (perfect for little ole me). We'd rather have a lot of information rather than the information of "It's blue, and it's (uses hands to illustrate) this big. Oh Oh.. and I think my friend's mother's daughter's hairdresser checked it out 10 years ago". Vague is bad.
I do have to say, that the questions I normally snork and giggle at are the ones where people are rude and stupid. Let's take the discussion where the man at the desk INSISTS that the author of Moby Dick is Charles Dickens. When I tell him it's Melville, he says I'm looking up the "Wrong Moby Dick". Those are the questions I share with the staff!
Also... I have fines on my card. I have over $10 in fines on my library card. Now, I forget like the mortals to turn my books in on time. So, don't feel bad. I have a kid who likes to put books here and there. I also like to get books and then leave them on a pile next to my bed, forget to read them, THEN forget to turn them in on time.
I still love you!
Not Afraid
10-24-2005, 02:43 PM
Well, after all that, I'm just glad you found a Murakami book to read. The one you choose is his newest novel, released fairly recently. I have it but haven't read it yet. It will be interesting to see if it spurs the addiction like his other books have for us.
tracilicious
10-24-2005, 05:38 PM
All librarians do not hate you! I know I don't!
In my experience answering reference questions, I use Amazon to see if the book is in print or not. It's the fastest way I can get an answer. Also, it's good that you had a lot of information to give the librarian. :) It's helpful, even if it's not accurate. Sometimes it's that little somehting that might jog our brains. Google is nice because of the spell check feature (perfect for little ole me). We'd rather have a lot of information rather than the information of "It's blue, and it's (uses hands to illustrate) this big. Oh Oh.. and I think my friend's mother's daughter's hairdresser checked it out 10 years ago". Vague is bad.
I do have to say, that the questions I normally snork and giggle at are the ones where people are rude and stupid. Let's take the discussion where the man at the desk INSISTS that the author of Moby Dick is Charles Dickens. When I tell him it's Melville, he says I'm looking up the "Wrong Moby Dick". Those are the questions I share with the staff!
Also... I have fines on my card. I have over $10 in fines on my library card. Now, I forget like the mortals to turn my books in on time. So, don't feel bad. I have a kid who likes to put books here and there. I also like to get books and then leave them on a pile next to my bed, forget to read them, THEN forget to turn them in on time.
I still love you!
Thanks! I knew a wrong author wouldn't make you hate me! She was nice enough, it was just funny that she got so exasperated because I kept trying to leave. At one point I even said, "I don't want to monopolize all your time, I'll go look on the shelves some more." But this lady just would not let me leave. Plus, I think I made her day by giving her that special feeling of superiority.
At the bookstore, I admit, I laughed in secret at the customers that would ask the difference between fiction and non-fiction. I mean come on, how can you not know that? I also got the questions where people would say, "It's an orange book about a person that was in the war." Or whatever they were looking for. Did they really think I could find that?
And lady, ten dollars is nothing as far as fines go. Trust me. Nothing.
libraryvixen
10-24-2005, 07:07 PM
And lady, ten dollars is nothing as far as fines go. Trust me. Nothing.
Uhh... that's what is is right NOW. That's not what it was before... :rolleyes: It was pretty high. Let's say... oh... high thirties.
From my time behind a reference desk your experience is hardly unusual. At least you didn't come in and say "Do you have that green book by the famous science fiction author?" or "I'm looking for that book that was mentioned on NPR last week."
Morrigoon
10-25-2005, 11:43 AM
You know though, Alex... sometimes that helps. I was in a bookstore trying to find Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and had forgotten the name of the book. So I mentioned something about the guy having two dads, and it was on Oprah. A lightbulb went on for the bookstore guy because he'd had TONS of people coming in for it (Getting your book on Oprah does amazing things for sales, you know), so he knew exactly which book I was looking for.
If "science fiction book that was on NPR" had been highly requested in the last week, chances are you'd have known about it from past people hunting for it. (But hey, who listens to NPR anymore? j/k)
edit: Oh, and I just have to say... when I saw this thread on "new posts" I originally read it as "Libertarians everywhere hate me," and I was wondering why libertarians would have problems with you returning books late
Eliza Hodgkins 1812
10-25-2005, 12:47 PM
Librarians hate me, too.
When, really, they should thank me. My enormous fines have no doubt bought them a few books, even if they had to waste man power to call me again and again about the late books, the late fees.
And, most recently, they sent creditors after me. I have a library fine on my credit report!
How...intellectual?
Heh.
Matterhorn Fan
10-25-2005, 03:22 PM
Wind Up Bird Chronicles! Yes that's it! How could I have forgotten that. Librarians everywhere hate me!
She laughingly declares, "Yes we do!"Oh, please tell me that "yes we do" part of this story was a joke. Because that's a horrible thing to say. She should've said "We enjoy the challenge."
Isn't that why people become reference librarians? Because they like to help others locate information? (At least, as college English teacher, that's the kind of reference librarian duties I practice, as my students are too afraid, often, to ask the actual librarians.)
tracilicious
10-25-2005, 03:28 PM
Oh, please tell me that "yes we do" part of this story was a joke. Because that's a horrible thing to say. She should've said "We enjoy the challenge."
Isn't that why people become reference librarians? Because they like to help others locate information? (At least, as college English teacher, that's the kind of reference librarian duties I practice, as my students are too afraid, often, to ask the actual librarians.)
Would that I could tell you that. Would that I could. Mind you, she was laughing while she said it, but I was still a bit taken aback. I think you are right about why people should become librarians. Unfortunately, I think there will always be a percentage that become librarians because they like books a heck of a lot more than they like people. Helping people is probably a downside to the job for people like them. Still, she was nice enough. I didn't walk away feeling insulted. Just stupid. And, well, I'm used to that feeling by now. :p
tracilicious
11-01-2005, 12:36 AM
I'm bumping this because I'd hate for CP to miss a librarian post while in France. ;)
Quick comment as to why people should become librarians, it needs to be pointed out that there are a whole lot of librarians who never go near a reference desk.
I love reference librarianship (if only I hadn't been able to make twice as much money not working in libraries, I'd still be doing it), but I couldn't do pubilc library reference work, because:
1) Too many kids. I still don't know why people under 25 are allowed out of their bedrooms.
2) The questions tend too much to the banal ("what is the capital of Peru, it would be amazing if you actually knew how to find such secret information") for me. I much more preferred academic reference desks (in universities) where you still get boring questions but you also more frequently get to actually be a part of the research process.
So there are lots of reasons to become a librarian and lots of places your preferences can take you. The second worst reason, in my opinion, is "I like to read" because there aren't many librarians in the world who actually get to do much reading. The worst is "I like books." If you like books, become a bookseller or a preservationist. Being a librarian is not about books, it is about information.
Just my opinion, recently irritated by yet another person saying, upon hearing that I was once a librarian, "oh, I'm considering going to library school because I really like books, and quiet, and reading." Of course, this same person was complaining that she didn't understand why being a librarian should require a masters degree when she learned how to use the library in second grade. (There is a valid debate about how necessary post-graduate degrees should be, but she was simply irritating me.)
Gemini Cricket
11-01-2005, 08:35 AM
"Do you have that book by... you know. It has pages in it. I think it has a cover. Hard, no soft. You know, the book. The book? I think it's made out of paper. It was written by somebody. You know, Dr. Something Something. No? The cover has a picture on it. It's a book, though. I'm sure of that."
tracilicious
11-01-2005, 08:58 AM
1) Too many kids. I still don't know why people under 25 are allowed out of their bedrooms.
Of course, this same person was complaining that she didn't understand why being a librarian should require a masters degree when she learned how to use the library in second grade. (There is a valid debate about how necessary post-graduate degrees should be, but she was simply irritating me.)
Well I'm certainly glad that they are, as my husband would still be confined to his room otherwise. I do wish I could selectively confine people. Then again, I also wish I had a rocket launcher on my car to fire at people that drive too slow.
Why does being a librarian require a degree?
libraryvixen
11-01-2005, 09:14 AM
"Do you have that book by... you know. It has pages in it. I think it has a cover. Hard, no soft. You know, the book. The book? I think it's made out of paper. It was written by somebody. You know, Dr. Something Something. No? The cover has a picture on it. It's a book, though. I'm sure of that."
I do! It's over there in that section with the numbers on it next to the other books that have words on the side. ;)
My public library is the only one in town. So, we offer up our services to over 55,000 folks. It's a lot for a little library. I find myself doing more research-based projects in my branch than the other cities that have 3-4 branches in their town.
I fell into my librarianship. I started volunteering when I was 12 and never stopped working at the library. I found myself actually seeing how the library operated, what the staff did there, and how much it took to make the library run... and I loved it. I love collection development, I love teaching people how to use the library... I love my job.
My ex-husband used to tell me "I don't understand why you're tired. All you do is sit on your a$$ all day, look at a computer screen, point your finger at people to 'shush' them, and read all day." Not only when we were married.... but even now after we're divorced. He likes to tell me (and when we were in court, the judge) that it wasn't a "real" job. I always challenged him to come into the library to see WHAT I did and HOW I did it. I told him that my job was not as easy as it looked and that answering questions all day was not all I did. And... I wish I could read all day. It would make the annoying questions a lot more palatable if I lazily pulled my head up from my book and said "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear your question." and then pushed my head right back into it again.
It is more than books, it's more than sitting on ones a$$, it's a business of books and media. One has to have the savvy to balance good customer service, intelligent searches, and making sure your branch has quality resources to offer the patrons.
Why does being a librarian require a degree?
You can make a very good case that for many librarian jobs that generally require an MLS, that it isn't really necessary. In fact, in library school I wrote a paper taking this position.
That said, it is generally not a job where someone can just walk in and start doing it. In the absence of a degree requirement, it would have to work on an apprenticeship/develpoment model.
There is a lot of specialized knowledge that goes into the job and it takes time to learn it all. It requires a degree for much the same reason that other professional degrees (lawyers, nurses, teachers, etc.) require or encourage them. Not so much because it requires knowledge that can only be gained in a university but because a degree program provides the necessary time to simply sit down and learn what needs to be learned. It is easier for a public library to simply require that people come in already knowing this stuff rather than each library having its own staff devleopment.
Also, there are many fields within librarianship that are much more academically oriented than what most people see at the public library reference desk.
libraryvixen, where did you get your MLS? I have to admit that collection development is something I hated (but I really do miss academic reference work; too bad the pay is crap).
Cadaverous Pallor
11-01-2005, 10:50 AM
Heehee, Traci. :)
We do not hate people with fines. We hate people that deny that they have overdue books and yell "are you calling me a liar??". Then they go back to the car and a moment later come back in with the book in their hands.
Librarians are the worst regarding returning books. But if we have fines, we pay them. It's just a donation anyway. I do recommend you pay yours, not because I'm a stickler librarian, but because you might get sent to a collection agency. People get REALLY mad when it shows up on their credit report :eek:
Now regarding your situation...as others have said, your story is far too common to be hated, and there are much worse out there. The only thing I'd recommend is that next time don't say things like "I'm positive that's the name" because that's what makes great fodder for snarky librarian stories. She must've said "I'm positive" at least 4 times! You should have seen the look on her face when she realized she was wrong... Yeah, I admit, snarky librarian stories are prevalent at the workplace.
The librarian's dogged determination to find your book is standard procedure. Alex is right, it isn't about books, it's about information, and she was going to figure out what you meant. The chase is what the job is all about.
libraryvixen
11-01-2005, 11:19 AM
libraryvixen, where did you get your MLS? I have to admit that collection development is something I hated (but I really do miss academic reference work; too bad the pay is crap).
I'm applying to San Jose State. Through my library, I can apply as a librarian trainee. My system will pay for a nice hunk of my master's degree and when I graduate with my MLS, I have to work for them for (I think) 2 ro 3 years.
My collection development training was more from a lazy librarian who didn't want to do it. *shrug* I guess I just like to do unsavory library tasks! lol
tracilicious
11-01-2005, 12:26 PM
We do not hate people with fines. We hate people that deny that they have overdue books and yell "are you calling me a liar??". Then they go back to the car and a moment later come back in with the book in their hands.
Librarians are the worst regarding returning books. But if we have fines, we pay them. It's just a donation anyway. I do recommend you pay yours, not because I'm a stickler librarian, but because you might get sent to a collection agency. People get REALLY mad when it shows up on their credit report :eek:
Now regarding your situation...as others have said, your story is far too common to be hated, and there are much worse out there. The only thing I'd recommend is that next time don't say things like "I'm positive that's the name" because that's what makes great fodder for snarky librarian stories. She must've said "I'm positive" at least 4 times! You should have seen the look on her face when she realized she was wrong... Yeah, I admit, snarky librarian stories are prevalent at the workplace.
The librarian's dogged determination to find your book is standard procedure. Alex is right, it isn't about books, it's about information, and she was going to figure out what you meant. The chase is what the job is all about.
Oh, I would never yell. I'm much more likely to wait to return the books until they've given up (I do eventually return them :blush: ) and then never return to that library. Sadly, the collections people already know my name. :( I'm glad to know that other book lovers return things late. I love the library, and I do want to support them. I promise to do better with this library!
Tee-hee. I really was sure it started with an H. That's a well earned story for her. It really did seem like a quest to her. I claim the victory though, as I'm the one that suggested Google and gave her the search parameters. :p
SJSU has a good program, good luck with your schooling. I assume you're thinking to specialize in reference work?
I almost went into a cataloging track (it really is fascinating at the structures level) but there are just so few places where you can really do pure cataloging any more that it seemed too limiting. If you decide you'd rather live in Hawaii for two years, let me know and I can hook you up with some good people in that program.
If you like the unsavory tasks, I assume you volunteer to shelf read? In one of my papers in grad school I included a point that reference librarians should spend at least an hour or two shelf reading in their assigned topics. Not only because it will keep things organized but also build up their familiarity with their collection. The professor thought this a wonderful suggestion. None of my fellow students (or working librarians I mentioned it to) were so keen on it. I love shelf reading, myself.
Not Afraid
11-01-2005, 12:36 PM
Tee-hee. I really was sure it started with an H. That's a well earned story for her. It really did seem like a quest to her. I claim the victory though, as I'm the one that suggested Google and gave her the search parameters.
Well, one thing other people in need of finding something have done - they call my cell phone. ;)
tracilicious
11-01-2005, 12:40 PM
That said, it is generally not a job where someone can just walk in and start doing it. In the absence of a degree requirement, it would have to work on an apprenticeship/develpoment model.
Yes, this was really the heart of my question. Why there isn't just extensive on the job training. Which you've answered quite well, thank you. I'm assuming when you say "library school" you just mean college?
Well, I mean a graduate MLS or MLIS program. So not just college in general, but a specific degree program or school (mine was an individual school within the college).
Prudence
11-01-2005, 01:01 PM
l(but I really do miss academic reference work; too bad the pay is crap).
And that's why I'm not employed as a librarian! Nothing like a field that *requires* an MLIS, and then expects entry level folks to start part time at the public library at wages comparable to (or below) entry level BA/BS jobs. Seriously, I would have had to dial my salary back to the pre-degree level. That's not a "professional" salary. That's a salary for wifey-poo who has a cute little job during the day while little Johnny and Susie are in school. Like teaching, that's the perception of the profession.
And it's not just the general public that thinks so. When I was in school, the Dean cancelled future offerings of the humanities reference class (leaving social science and health science reference) because "it's all on the internet." I took the last class and it was, without a doubt, the most valuable class I took. It's hard to advocate for the rigor of the profession when the academic representatives of the profession think it's unnecessary.
I still love information. I still love the chase. It's not uncommon for me to have someone trapped in my office while I try just one more set of search terms because I *know* the answer to their question is out there. I'm hoping my training will help me be a better attorney - and a more valuable hiring prospect.
In the meantime, boy do I have respect for those who are truly committed to the profession and keep at it despite the low pay and minimal respect. Especially public librarians. Man, you guys should get hazard pay!
the Dean cancelled future offerings of the humanities reference class (leaving social science and health science reference) because "it's all on the internet."
Which program did you go through?
What's weird about that is that of the three major reference specialties, the humanities is the worst represented on the internet. Monographs are the primary method of scholarship in the humanities and while the digitization of those resources is finally beginning, the more journal-based scholarship of the hard and soft sciences has been electronic since well before the World Wide Web (god to I miss my DIALOG account).
The pay isn't necessarily terrible, at least in my chosen track (academic reference librarianship, though getting in the door is hard) but it simply paled in comparison to what I was able to make doing web application development.
Matterhorn Fan
11-01-2005, 04:15 PM
Well, the other option is not to get your MLIS, but to get your MA and teach freshman composition. You get to be both full-time professor and part-time reference librarian (gotta love those research papers!) all for the low, low pay of . . . well, let's just say I don't make that much more than some people I know who don't have college degrees at all. The pay isn't terrible, but it's not very good, either.
Prudence
11-01-2005, 04:45 PM
Which program did you go through?
What's weird about that is that of the three major reference specialties, the humanities is the worst represented on the internet. Monographs are the primary method of scholarship in the humanities and while the digitization of those resources is finally beginning, the more journal-based scholarship of the hard and soft sciences has been electronic since well before the World Wide Web (god to I miss my DIALOG account).
University of Washington. They got a shiny new Dean a few years ago who was all into dropping the library science and being about "information science." If that would have meant a focus on user behavior studies and information seeking behaviors and so forth, I could have bought it. Instead, the focus is now on training database administrators.
And I'm with you on the weirdness. That was basically the focus of our class - that unlike the other specialties, most of our work would NOT be on the internet. Thus, we needed to learn about print reference sources. Heck, I work in the health sciences and have degrees in the humanities so I know first hand about the journal/monograph dichotomy. That was why it was so absolutely INSANE to have the DEAN of a library science program utter such inanity.
I wanted to be an academic librarian, but the field currently requires two years experince as a full-time librarian just to qualify. And the local public libraries require 2-5 years part-time experience to qualify for full-time employment. In fact, one of the major public library systems, King County, now has a application process where you have to WORK FOR FREE in three different branches in three different functions while they observe -- and that's just to get into the applicant pool! This information I have from someone who actually went through that humiliation. One of my classmates finally took a job she hates -- at a prison! including "close" custody and "special offender" units! the other library staff members are inmates! -- just so she could get full-time work and get the two years' experience she needs to qualify for academic library positions.
In my case, I'm the primary wage earner so I can't afford to take low-paying part-time work to "pay my dues." I've worked as a paraprofessional in a public library and I don't think that I should have to work as a librarian in a public library for x number of years if that's not what I want to do. That's just perpetuating the perception that public librarians aren't professionals committed to their jobs. The library where I volunteer has librarians just marking time until they can qualify for a job in another type of library. There's this alleged "librarian shortage," but entry-level positions get applicants with 5+ years of experience who've been laid off from elsewhere. It's nearly impossible to break into the field now.
Not Afraid
11-01-2005, 06:33 PM
Interesting discussion. I have been thinking about an MLS for the bast couple of weeks. It goes well with Art History but not as well with Business.
Actually, an MLS can go very well with business, particularly if you persue a Special Libraries track. Corporate libraries tend to be very different than public and academic libraries but many of them would find a business background very useful.
Prudence, I did my undergraduate at UW and spent four years working the third floor serials desk on the closing shift (without librarian supervision so I got a lot of good ref desk experience as an undergrad. Ah, the memories of rousting sleepers out of the reading room at 12:30 in the morning. I would have gone to the school at UW, but my ex-wife was going to go there so I decided on the University of Hawaii program instead. She would have been there 96-98 so it sounds like it is unlikely you knew her.
Prudence
11-02-2005, 12:03 AM
I was there 99-02, so I didn't know her. Actually, I didn't know much of anyone. I really don't have good memories of that program. Well, there were a couple highlights -- one good friend and a handful of quality classes.
But you did get to go into Suzzallo Library every day. I love that building.
Here is the main reading room in the building where Prudence went to school and I worked for years (while going to school)
http://static.flickr.com/21/30919317_33ed56783a.jpg
And from the outside (the above room is the entire upper floor you see here):
http://static.flickr.com/23/30918186_ee8ffe107d.jpg
(Don't know how tight you are around here on copyright, so these are my own photos.)
wendybeth
11-02-2005, 01:00 AM
What a gorgeous building. Must have been a bit spooky late at night......
Prudence
11-02-2005, 09:20 AM
But you did get to go into Suzzallo Library every day. I love that building.
Actually, no. The first year, classes were held in the old electrical engineering and mechanical engineering buildings. Then Mary Gates Hall for the rest of the time. No classes in Suzzallo. In fact, the reading room at Suzzallo (as well as other significant portions) was closed nearly the entire time I was in school due to a giant seismic retrofitting project.
Well pooh then.
So the lib school was permanently moved over to Gates Hall or just during the retrofit. I did notice on my last visit the ugly results of the retrofit. Sorry to here that you didn't enjoy your time there. It does sound like I would have some issues with the leadership as well (and it sounds like they were taking their lead from Berkeley, which changed their program so much that they lost accreditation, not that they cared). That was one nice thing about the Hawaii program, about half of the people in the program were in the school and children's library track so it didn't lose itself entirely in the technology.
Prudence
11-02-2005, 11:08 AM
It's now permanently in Mary Gates Hall. Also, they're now doing a new Dean search (internal candidates only, for some reason), and the candidates are: the chair of technical communications in the college of engineering, a professor from the department of medical education and biomedical informatics, and the current "iSchool" (damn cutesy name) associate dean for research.
So as you can see, they're really focused on librarianship. :rolleyes:
libraryvixen
11-02-2005, 11:22 AM
That is a gorgeous library! Great pictures Alex!
Cadaverous Pallor
11-02-2005, 11:22 AM
Alex, that's one gorgeous library. </drool>
Prudence
11-02-2005, 11:57 AM
Of course, once they completed the reading room retrofit we did go hear a Christmas concert there performed by the Medieval Women's Choir. That was cool. Great setting and swell accoustics.
Oooh! Looks like they're doing it again! (http://www.medievalwomenschoir.org/) And on my birthday! And after finals! And this year my arm isn't broken! Oh BunnyTravolta.....
Not Afraid
11-02-2005, 12:11 PM
Such a pretty library. Such a pretty school.
I want to co canoeing again.........
Not Afraid
11-02-2005, 01:02 PM
Well, actually the canoe rental is in the arboretum which is next to or connected to the campus.
Or, I may be waay off in my geography.
You've done this? The reason I ask is because in the same flickr gallery as the two photos I posted are photos of Lani and me canoing on Lake Washington. But I didn't (don't) think there was any way for you to navigate and see those other photos.
The canoe rental isn't actually at the Arboretum (unless there is another rental place I'm not aware of, but down below Husky Stadium (another of the Seattle areas hallowed tradition of building things that fall down) on the opposite side of the channel from the Arboretum.
Prudence
11-02-2005, 01:14 PM
Canoe/kayak rental is from the Waterfront Activities Center, which is way down at the end of the stadium parking lot. On the water's edge, of course. That's basically next to the arboretum.
So when are y'all gonna come up and see the library?
Fair chance I'll be there in the week between Christmas and New Years.
Do the UW libraries still use Willow or have they gone over to one of the vendor OPACs? Willow, which was designed in house is still the best OPAC I've ever used (in terms of search power and options) but the last time I walked through it looked like they were using Innovative (which sucks, sucks, SUCKS).
Not Afraid
11-02-2005, 01:23 PM
Yes! That's the place. You rent a canoe then paddle like MAD to get across the channel and not get hit by big boats (difficult when you don't have the hang of canoeing quite yet) to the arboretum. Once there, there are Canadian Geese who will eat blackberries out of your hand. They eat them whole and have these little downward moving lumps in their necks. Quite entertaining.
I love canoeing. We've also done it on Lake Quinault with loons and river otters.
I actually know the surrounding nature areas of Seattle and Northern WA better than I know the City.
Prudence
11-02-2005, 01:48 PM
Fair chance I'll be there in the week between Christmas and New Years.
Do the UW libraries still use Willow or have they gone over to one of the vendor OPACs? Willow, which was designed in house is still the best OPAC I've ever used (in terms of search power and options) but the last time I walked through it looked like they were using Innovative (which sucks, sucks, SUCKS).
I'm not sure what they're using now, but it says UW Libraries is the copyright holder. I don't have a problem with it, so it's probably not one of the commercial products, if you know what I mean.
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