Does this give you a reason to like Cheney?

[scaeagles]

Just wondering if this will make you libs like Cheney. Today he shot a lawyer.

Accidentally. On a hunting trip. With a shotgun. The guy will be just fine.

(apologies to ISM)

[Moonliner]

Just wondering if this will make you libs like Cheney. Today he shot a lawyer.

Accidentally. On a hunting trip. With a shotgun. The guy will be just fine.

(apologies to ISM)

Was it Karl Rove?

[wendybeth]

Lol! Too bad he....oh, never mind. Too obvious, too easy.;)

[Alex]

It is a suprisingly common occurence. Both of my grandfathers had been shot while bird hunting as young men.

That said, how much of a pain in the ass do you think it is to get the privilege of walking through the woods with the president or vice president while carrying a loaded gun?

[Gemini Cricket]

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/12/cheney.ap/index.html)
Peppered? The man's not a roast for crying out loud.
:D

Leno, Letterman and Stewart are going to have a field day with this one, I think.

[Gemini Cricket]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/braddoc310/dickbangbangcheney.gif

[BunnyTravolta]

Hmm, are you saying it's a good thing he shot a lawyer?

[Moonliner]

It is a suprisingly common occurence. Both of my grandfathers had been shot while bird hunting as young men.

That said, how much of a pain in the ass do you think it is to get the privilege of walking through the woods with the president or vice president while carrying a loaded gun?

Who said HIS gun was loaded?

[Gemini Cricket]

Mrs. Quail: You're home late.
Mr. Quail: I know, I'm sorry.
Mrs. Quail: You're out of breath!
Mr. Quail: I know. I just got back from the Armstrong place with the guys.
Mrs. Quail: The Armstrong place? How many times have I warned you and your buddies not to hang out there?
Mr. Quail: I know. You're right. But you'll never guess what happened to us today...
Mrs. Quail: This better be good.
Mr. Quail: (laughs) It is, Marilyn. It is!

:D

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Just a day in the life of another responsible gun owner. ;)

[scaeagles]

Just a day in the life of another responsible gun owner. ;)

Shooting a lawyer does make you a responsible gun owner. :)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

It could have been worse, I suppose. Hasn't he gone hunting with Justice Scalia in the past?

Of couse, "worse" is entirely subjective. :)

[scaeagles]

I think this was practice for when he invites Breyer along.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I'm thinking he might have a hard time getting anyone to with him in the future.

[scaeagles]

I don't know about that....have you read many of Breyer's opinions?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Hmm, it would appear that Mr Cheney is far more dangerous (http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/10ways.jpg) than this one episode would suggest.


Also funny is the fact that during the 2004 election campaign, there were a number of conservatives and gun rights activists who were quick to comment on a photo that questioned Kerry's ability to safely handle a shotgun.

[Gemini Cricket]

I just thought of something.
Maybe it's a good thing Cheney got out of going to Vietnam 5 times. Imagine the number of US soliders he would have shot if he went.
:D

[scaeagles]

Interestingly, it looks like this really isn't Cheney's fault. No one, including the victim, is disputing how this happened.

The vic left the hunting party. When you return to a hunting party, you are supposed to let everyone know you have returned. He did not. He was not in line of sight, and in fact was flanking Cheney. When the dogs flushed out the quail and they started flying, Cheney followed them along their flight route, which went directly toward the vic.

[Gemini Cricket]

Interestingly, it looks like this really isn't Cheney's fault.
Cheney shot his lawyer friend. It's pretty obvious. The man didn't shoot himself. The man didn't put himself into intensive care.

I swear. Nothing is this Administration's fault.

It is Cheney's fault.

[Gemini Cricket]

Guns don't shoot people. People shoot people. Unless you get shot by the vice president, then no one shot you.
Oy.

Cheney can't even apologize for the accident. Wouldn't want the vp on record for apologizing to someone. Cheney should have had an idea of where everyone was before he shot. You don't shoot unless everyone is behind you. He broke that rule.

Blame the victim. What the heck is that all about?

[Moonliner]

Interestingly, it looks like this really isn't Cheney's fault. No one, including the victim, is disputing how this happened.

The vic left the hunting party. When you return to a hunting party, you are supposed to let everyone know you have returned. He did not. He was not in line of sight, and in fact was flanking Cheney. When the dogs flushed out the quail and they started flying, Cheney followed them along their flight route, which went directly toward the vic.

I guess we now know why it took almost 24 Hours for the White house to release this news. It takes time to come up with a good story and make sure everyone toes the line.

[scaeagles]

Do you hunt? Do you know about hunting safety? Do you know about bird hunting?

Cheney pulled the trigger, no doubt.

"Nothing is this administration's fault"? How does the administration come into this? This is a hunting accident.

[scaeagles]

Cheney should have had an idea of where everyone was before he shot. You don't shoot unless everyone is behind you. He broke that rule.

Well, no. Because the vic did not make it aware that he had returned - something no one disputes - Cheney had everyone accounted for except the person that returned without announcing it.

So....it was an accident, no one disputes it was an accident, no one disputes the circumstances of the accident, no one (in the hunting party) disputes the man returning without announcing it, but because it took 18-24 hours for the story to be released, there must be a cover up?

[scaeagles]

I guess we now know why it took almost 24 Hours for the White house to release this news. It takes time to come up with a good story and make sure everyone toes the line.

See above posting.

[Moonliner]

Do you hunt? Do you know about hunting safety? Do you know about bird hunting?

Cheney pulled the trigger, no doubt.

"Nothing is this administration's fault"? How does the administration come into this? This is a hunting accident.

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

This is just another example, like we really need one, of the institutional arrogance typical of the entire Bush Administration.

Cheney did not have a hunting licence, Cheney refused to meet with local police investigating a shooting, Cheney withheld the information on this as long as possible.

This is only a story because of the delay. If Cheney had cooperated with Police and issued a statement right off the bat apologizing and sending the guy his best wishes for a speedy recovery then this would have been the non-story it should have been but Cheney had to play by his rules where truth and information are what HE thinks they should be.

[Scrooge McSam]

Interestingly, it looks like this really isn't Cheney's fault. No one, including the victim, is disputing how this happened.

I'm not one to want to see Cheney strung up for this, but it is most definitely his fault.

The vic left the hunting party. When you return to a hunting party, you are supposed to let everyone know you have returned. He did not.

This is true, but in no way absolves Cheney of responsibility. It is the responsibility of the shooter to identify the target and what is beyond it. Most any hunter education program can clear this up for you if my word does not suffice.

He was not in line of sight, and in fact was flanking Cheney. When the dogs flushed out the quail and they started flying, Cheney followed them along their flight route, which went directly toward the vic.

... bringing the vic into the line of sight. Cheney shot Whittington from about 30 yards away.

Cheney goes shooting without a clear target and someone gets hurt. Then we have the coverup, and failing that we start blaming the victim.

blah blah blah blah

[Scrooge McSam]

If Cheney had cooperated with Police and issued a statement right off the bat apologizing and sending the guy his best wishes for a speedy recovery then this would have been the non-story it should have been but Cheney had to play by his rules where truth and information are what HE thinks they should be.

Now now now, Moonliner.... I read that Cheney was extremely worried about his friend in the hospital as he sat down to dinner.

[Gemini Cricket]

In the time it took to report the incident, the Administration got its hands on this story. That is why I said and still say that this Administration has zero accountability.

Cheney fired the gun. He should have known that everyone in his party was not in danger before he shot the gun. He didn't know where everyone was. He held the gun, he's accountable.

And, of course everyone is saying it's an accident. You can't have one GOP supporter bashing the GOP vp, can you? They all stick together... right down to taking a bullet for someone (even if the person that shot you is the high powered person you're protecting).

Cheney should have sucked it up and apologized and taken total blame for the incident. He should have been bigger than that. Be a man, Dick. Now it's going to be up to the media to lay the blame on him. Then he's going to take the victim stance... or release another video of a bin Laden or that poor hostage to take our minds off of it.

I don't think anyone can honestly believe that any member of the Bush Administration is on the level. Anyone who does is fooling himself/herself.

[scaeagles]

Cheney did not have a hunting licence

THAT is inexcusable. You must have all the proper licenses and/or tags to participate in hunting or fishing.

Wait! As a GOP member, was I just critical of a GOP vp? May it never be! Oh, my eyes have been opened and I see the error of my ways in support of any republican!:rolleyes:

[scaeagles]

This is true, but in no way absolves Cheney of responsibility. It is the responsibility of the shooter to identify the target and what is beyond it. Most any hunter education program can clear this up for you if my word does not suffice.

Do you know the blast pattern of birdshot? Have you ever hunted birds? When flowing the flight path of birds and aiming through sites, you must know that all members of the hunting party are not in the line of the flight path, predictable because they will fly in the opposite direction of the dogs that scare them out of the brush.

But wait! Cheney did know about all members of the hunting party.....except the one that came back unannounced.

Sigh.

The hunting safety you are referring to is regarding ground based game. You never fire a rifle or arrow at a land based target without knowing what was behind it. This is not possible when following the flight path of birds.

[Gemini Cricket]

THAT is inexcusable. You must have all the proper licenses and/or tags to participate in hunting or fishing.
However, THAT he's blaming on a staffer of his. He can't even take responsibility for that.
Cheney's office said a staffer who obtained the vice president's hunting license was not told he needed the $7 upland game bird stamp that Texas game wardens determined was missing. Cheney was issued a warning, and Cheney said he will send the Parks and Wildlife Department a check for the stamp.
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/14/cheney/index.html)

Here's something else:
"It's important, always, to work to make sure you get information out like this as quickly as possible," McClellan said. "But it's also important to make sure that the first priority is focused where it should be, and that is making sure that Mr. Whittington has the care that he needs."
Same source as above.

Okay, this Administration is also proving to us that they are incapable of doing two things at once. If I couldn't do two things at once, I'd be fired from my job.

McClellan is telling us that it took 24 hours for us to hear about this because they were attending to Whittington's wounds. So, Cheney and his entire staff were in the waiting room? No one could have said, 'Hmm, maybe we should send out a press release on this...'

Same thing with Katrina. 'Now is not the time for blame. We must fix this problem. We can't investigate what went wrong and fix New Orleans at the same time. That's too hard. You're all about blame and we're all about fix... a fix that came too late, but we're all about fix.'

:rolleyes:

[scaeagles]

However, THAT he's blaming on a staffer of his. He can't even take responsibility for that.

And you'll notice that I am critical of Cheney for that. He needs to make sure he has all of the proper licenses before he goes hunting.

Here's my biggest issue with thinking this is any type of a cover up - what is being covered up? The lack of purchasing the proper credentials? No one disputes what happened. I don't get it.

[Moonliner]

THAT is inexcusable. You must have all the proper licenses and/or tags to participate in hunting or fishing.

Wait! As a GOP member, was I just critical of a GOP vp? May it never be! Oh, my eyes have been opened and I see the error of my ways in support of any republican!:rolleyes:

Seesch, such typical spin. Ignore the REAL issues and try to get people to focus on the minutia of a situation. You could run for VP yourself one day.

The real issue here is the turtle approach that was taken. The "I'm above the law" attitude that infects this administration.

[scaeagles]

What am I spinning?

I said Cheney pulled the trigger.

I am critical that he didn't follow the law and purchase a license. In terms of minutia, I'm not the one who originally posted about not getting the license.

I am talking about the story in terms of what has been reported as far as what happened, which is not in dispute.

I have asked about what could possibly be covered up, as I don't see what they would want to cover up, and if it is a cover up, it is the world shortest and most stupid cover up. All gun shot woulds must be reported to police.

I really don't know what I am spinning.

[Moonliner]

What am I spinning?

I said Cheney pulled the trigger.

I am critical that he didn't follow the law and purchase a license. In terms of minutia, I'm not the one who originally posted about not getting the license.

I am talking about the story in terms of what has been reported as far as what happened, which is not in dispute.

I have asked about what could possibly be covered up, as I don't see what they would want to cover up, and if it is a cover up, it is the world shortest and most stupid cover up. All gun shot woulds must be reported to police.

I really don't know what I am spinning.

It's not an issue of a "cover up" I don't think anyone is saying this was an assassination attempt. It's just a clear example of the arrogent way Cheney and crew do business.

I'm a powerful man, I don't need no hunting licence

I'm a powerful man, I don't need to cooperate with local law enforment

I'm a powerful man, I don't need to justify my actions, or even mention them

I'm a powerful man, don't you question my actions.

I'm a powerful man, the laws of the United States are for you, not for me.

[scaeagles]

While I disagree with your sentiment, I can at least understand it now.

[Gemini Cricket]

And you'll notice that I am critical of Cheney for that.
My frustration is not directed at you. It's with the issue we're discussing.
Here's my biggest issue with thinking this is any type of a cover up - what is being covered up?

It's not that he's trying to hide the incident, it's that he seems to be above the law because of his postion. 24 hours later, we get a filtered story. That's fishy. If I shot that lawyer, I wouldn't get that perk of having a team of people water down the situation and carefully word what happened later. Is 'peppered' a common hunting term?


Edit: I sat on my post too long. I just read what Moonliner wrote... what he said.
:)

[scaeagles]

Is 'peppered' a common hunting term?

In terms of shotguns, yes. Not to try to be condescending, as I simply don't know your range of knowledge, but a shotgun doesn't shoot a bullet. It shoot a wide spread of pellets - in this case, birdshot, which is similar to a common BB (multiple being shot at a time).

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, "peppered" is a commmon hunting term. Shutguns don't fire a bullet, they fire a cluster of little balls ("shot"). When something is hit with several of those shot, you say it was "peppered".

Sorry guys, but I find this to be a big non-story. Dude made a mistake. Unless it's something that concerns his performance as vp, I don't consider him as having an obligation to go running to the media to say he shot his friend. While I fully understand why it is newsworthy once it became public, I don't consider the delay indicative of anything other than the fact that he made a horrible mistake, nearly killed a friend, and was dealing with the reprocussions of that privately. It's no more his reponsibility to inform us of that than it was Clinton's to inform us of his cigar appreciation.

[Scrooge McSam]

Do you know the blast pattern of birdshot?

Yes

Have you ever hunted birds?

I grew up and live now in rural Mississippi. YES, I have hunted birds (quail and dove), deer (gun and bow), rabbit, and squirrel. I am not an avid hunter now, but had some fun with it in scouts (I am an eagle scout with a marksmanship merit badge, if you want ancient history) and in high school.

So that's 2 people who's hunting experience you've questioned so far. What's your experience?

Sigh.

Tough day?

I don't know why you're so upset with me anyway. My first comment on this was "I'm not one to want to see Cheney strung up for this". And I don't. This was clearly an accident. But I do realize where the responsibility lies, whether you do or not.

[Gemini Cricket]

It shoot a wide spread of pellets - in this case, birdshot, which is similar to a common BB (multiple being shot at a time).
Yes, I do know that. I may be a fag, but I know what a shooting range is and the rules involved. :D I have also shot shotguns before. Several, in fact. We own one. I have shot handguns and an elephant gun that nearly took my entire arm off.
I prefer a .45 to a .38. That's my gun of choice if I were to ever own a handgun. Ralphie's father wants to buy me one really badly but Ralphie and his mom are against the idea. Oh well.
My dad was a police officer for 33 years or so. He taught me how. I also learned about shooting rifles in the Boy Scouts. I was the best shot in my troop. I won 5 dollars in a contest. The other scouts were peeved to have lost to a Tenderfoot. Ha ha.
See, you learn new stuff everyday.
:)


Anyway, all I'm asking is does the media say a man stormed a 7-11 and peppered the cashier with his shotgun? I think not.

[Gemini Cricket]

I don't consider him as having an obligation to go running to the media to say he shot his friend.
I do. He represents us. He's the second most powerful man in our country. Everything he does is important. The reporting should not have taken 24 hours.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I do. He represents us. He's the second most powerful man in our country. Everything he does is important. The reporting should not have taken 24 hours.I couldn't disagree more. I don't give a rat's ass about his, or any politician's, private life. Again, I understand that if we find out, it's noteworthy, but beyond that, I don't care.

[scaeagles]

Scrooge and GC - I am not questioning your knowledge of firearms or hunting, in terms of saying that you don't know what you are talking about. i am just curious as to what your knowledge is.

I go dove hunting with my father and brother in laws a few times a year. Been on elk hunts and javelina hunts, though only as a spotter, not a hunter.

I'm not upset with anyone. I just really, truly, honestly, do not see what the big deal is in a 24 hour delay of release of this info to the press.

[Ghoulish Delight]

and javelina hunts,

http://www.marysa.com/BabyJavelina.gif

Monster.

[mousepod]

I go dove hunting ... a few times a year.

Is anyone going to touch that line? It's a gimme!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Everything he does is important.So you think Clinton should have held a news conference every time Lewinski checked the executive oil?

[Gemini Cricket]

I don't give a rat's ass about his, or any politician's, private life.
What a politician does privately with someone that is not against the law, no.
When a politician shoots someone and that person is sent to intensive care because of gunshot wounds, most definitely yes. Against the law, no. He was cleared. But it is of great interest to me.

[Scrooge McSam]

So you think Clinton should have held a news conference every time Lewinski checked the executive oil?

Why do we always have to come back to Clinton???


Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Ghoulish Delight]

What a politician does privately with someone that is not against the law, no.
When a politician shoots someone and that person is sent to intensive care because of gunshot wounds, most definitely yes. Against the law, no. He was cleared. But it is of great interest to me.Again, I understand why it's news. But I also understand that his FIRST priority is to appologize to the family, not me. Crap, he shot his friend! Would you immediately run to the phone to call you employer, or would you take a day to make sure your friend is okay and collect yourself because you freakin' accidentally shot your friend.

Sorry, but this has been getting under my skin. I'm as much of a critic of the administration as anyone, but harping on this kind of non-story is bordering (perhaps already across the border mowing lawns) on petty.

[Gemini Cricket]

So you think Clinton should have held a news conference every time Lewinski checked the executive oil?
Do I care that Lewinski smoked the executive pole? No. Do I care that Clinton lied about it under oath? Yes. One is a crime, the other isn't.

Cheney's inability to take responsibility for his actions, him being incapable of apologizing and him blaming his staffer for the stamp snafu speak volumes about the man's character. Not that he had much credibility to begin with with me.

[Gemini Cricket]

...would you take a day to make sure your friend is okay and collect yourself because you freakin' accidentally shot your friend.
I would. But during those 24 hours with my friend, I'd say to at least one person in my huge staff that because I'm the VP of the US, we should report this to my boss and send out a press release. Because it's the responsible thing to do.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Do I care that Lewinski smoked the executive pole? No. Do I care that Clinton lied about it under oath? Yes. One is a crime, the other isn't.No crime here. Accident.

Look, like I said several times, I understand why it's a story. I can even understand that maybe it would have been a bit more responsible for him to say something. But I just can't bring myself to think it's a big deal. Unless he was paying people off to keep quiet about it, I don't care.

[Gemini Cricket]

No crime here. Accident.
I'll give you that. Would it have been a crime if it were someone else? I don't know, but I wonder.

-----------

By Cheney not saying anything, we're left to wonder. We're left to fill in the blanks. To many, including me, this is being seen as another example of people in this Administration thinking they're above the law and need not explain anything. Wrong.

There are tons of people who feel that this event is not a non-issue. 2,885 news stories on this one incident on Google News. That's a lot.

[Ghoulish Delight]

There are tons of people who feel that this event is not a non-issue. 2,885 news stories on this one incident on Google News. That's a lot.I know, and that bothers me. It's inflating nothing into something, imo, and makes an easy target for administration supporters to pick apart us "liberal whiners". I really dislike it when "my side" (whatever that means) goes off on something with such little justification.

[scaeagles]

http://www.marysa.com/BabyJavelina.gif

Monster.

Typical liberal spin from your side.:) ;)

Ever seen a full grown one - butt ugly suckers. Almost worse than cats.

[Prudence]

I am actually not bothered by the missing stamp or the initial lack of reporting.

Perhaps the staffers are lying through their hoo-hoos, but I've been in too many situations myself where I've called to find out what was needed for some activity, trusted the word of the employee, and then discovered that oh, I don't have this other thing that they recently decided to require and don't have their employees who answer the "call for information" phone tell people about.

As for lack of reporting - I don't particularly care. There are so many actual newsworthy happenings that I'd rather spend my brain power pondering.

I am a little disappointed. I'm disappointed anytime a public figure chooses silence instead of teaching. This is a perfect teaching opportunity. In my fantasy world, the VP would make a public statement about how this incident demonstrates how important safety is when hunting, that even experienced hunters can make mistakes, and maybe even what he or the unintentional target will do differently next time.

Of course he's not required to do that. He's not even obligated to do that. But if he had, I would have been impressed.

Oh, and no, I've never been hunting. I did do some target practice with a bow and arrow and was quite good at it, but that was a long time ago.

[Gemini Cricket]

I know, and that bothers me. It's inflating nothing into something, imo...
I totally agree. There are stories out there that get so much press and get blown into a huge countrywide issue. It's confusing. It also makes me feel like anything I do could get blown up into a story on Yahoo or MSN...

Maybe there are more news outlets than actual news stories. Seems like everything is news now. Seems like all of our news places have become tabloids.

But I disagree with people out there when they say the media is liberal. That's hooey. The media is all about what's popular to criticize...

:shrug:

[innerSpaceman]

Ya know, I also feel that the Danish cartoons were a non-story, but a whole lot of Muslim rioters felt differently ... and made it a story.

This is a news story if enough people think it is.


Seems like enough people do.




I'm one of them. Moving this thread to the 'Grind.

[wendybeth]

It's a story, whether the White House thinks so or not. The excuses given for not reporting it, and then deferring to the owner of the ranch, are about the lamest I've seen in a long time. I can't figure out if it's simply arrogance on the VP's part (I don't have to tell anyone!) or if they were just trying to figure out a way to play it down, but I am amused by imagining possible scenarios for the latter. I am sure it was just a dumb accident, and in a way it humanizes Cheney to me, but to try and say it's not a story is erroneous. He's the VP, for God's sake! Of course people are going to want to read about it, but their lapse in reporting has made it much more of a story than it would have been. It could have been downplayed as a Gerald FOrd moment, but now conspiracy theorists will have a field day. I am also amused by the righteous indignation of the Press Corps and some of their comments to McClellan- they are genuinly indignant about the perceived lapse of protocol, and you can really see the ego's coming out as well.:rolleyes:


Darn good thing Cheney travels with a medical team, eh?

Edited to add: More news on the VP's shooting vistim (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184846,00.html).

[Ghoulish Delight]

I never said it's not a story. In fact, I said several times that I undertand why it's a story. It's the delay that I think is a non-story.

[wendybeth]

I get that, GD- it's the White House that's playing the non-story angle.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I'm not impressed with how it was handled but I'm not ready to buy into any conspiracy theory. I do think that time was taken to try to figure out the best way to minimize the story and that this time lapse actually had the opposite effect. For one thing, the reasons that the White House gave for delaying the release of the information was that their first concern was that the man who was shot was getting the proper medical attention. Considering the fact that there was an ambulance and medical team on site, I'm not sure how I see that this was a concern for 24 hours. Hell, within a few hours, the guy was resting in a hospital bed. Still, I view this incident as nothing more than an accident, one that Cheney and the man he shot are probably both responsible for. Yes, the man should have announced himself but Cheney also should have been more aware that there was someone in his party that was unaccounted for. Still, it was an accident that I'm sure Cheney does feel a great deal of remorse for.

I agree with Prudence that this would have been a great opportunity to educate people on the importance of gun safety. Instead, nobody is saying a word. That's their perogative but I think there could have been some positive to come out of a situation like this and the opportunity was missed.

Incidentally, the man Cheney shot had a heart attack today (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/14/cheney/index.html). I would imagine that this story isn't going away for a while.

[innerSpaceman]

Always the cover-up. When will they learn?

[MickeyLumbo]

Incidentally, the man Cheney shot had a heart attack today (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/14/cheney/index.html).

i blame Bush.

[wendybeth]

Heh heh...As expected, Jon Stewart had some fun with this. He was one happy boy: #2 with a bullet (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=daily+show&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D9 7047dd3aebf7a17%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Ddaily%2Bshow%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fwww.comedycentral.com%252Ftv_shows%252Fthedaily showwithjonstewart%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comedycentral.com%2Ftv _shows%2Fthedailyshowwithjonstewart%2F).

[Disneyphile]

Possible Excuses for Cheney to Use as to Why This Occured:

Warrantless domestic spying revealed he was getting phone calls from Al Qaeda.
If the Vice President does it, it's not against the law.
I was hoping to put him in a persistent vegetative state so the GOP could pass a law to keep him alive.
I'm sure the man's family will welcome me as a liberator.
Look here, it says "Non-resident hunting license". The guy lives in Maine!
Our attempts at Social Security reform have failed miserably. I've decided to fix the problem, one senior at a time.
;)

[Gemini Cricket]

Heh heh...As expected, Jon Stewart had some fun with this. He was one happy boy: #2 with a bullet (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=daily+show&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D9 7047dd3aebf7a17%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Ddaily%2Bshow%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%2 52Fwww.comedycentral.com%252Ftv_shows%252Fthedaily showwithjonstewart%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comedycentral.com%2Ftv _shows%2Fthedailyshowwithjonstewart%2F).
I just watched the rerun of this on Comedy Central. It is hysterical.
Jon Stewart: "I'm joined now by our own vice-presidential firearms mishap analyst, Rob Corddry. Rob, obviously a very unfortunate situation. How is the vice president handling it?

Rob Corddry: "Jon, tonight the vice president is standing by his decision to shoot Harry Wittington. According to the best intelligence available, there were quail hidden in the brush. Everyone believed at the time there were quail in the brush.

"And while the quail turned out to be a 78-year-old man, even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists he still would have shot Mr. Whittington in the face. He believes the world is a better place for his spreading buckshot throughout the entire region of Mr. Whittington's face."

Jon Stewart: "But why, Rob? If he had known Mr. Whittington was not a bird, why would he still have shot him?"

Rob Corddry: "Jon, in a post-9-11 world, the American people expect their leaders to be decisive. To not have shot his friend in the face would have sent a message to the quail that America is weak."

Jon Stewart: "That's horrible."

Rob Corddry: "Look, the mere fact that we're even talking about how the vice president drives up with his rich friends in cars to shoot farm-raised wingless quail-tards is letting the quail know 'how' we're hunting them. I'm sure right now those birds are laughing at us in that little 'covey' of theirs.

Jon Stewart: "I'm not sure birds can laugh, Rob."

Rob Corddry: "Well, whatever it is they do … coo .. they're cooing at us right now, Jon, because here we are talking openly about our plans to hunt them. Jig is up. Quails one, America zero.

Jon Stewart: "Okay, well, on a purely human level, is the vice president at least sorry?"

Rob Corddry: "Jon, what difference does it make? The bullets are already in this man's face. Let's move forward across party lines as a people … to get him some sort of mask."
One of the funniest Daily Shows ever.
:D

[innerSpaceman]

I know it was a mistake and a very unfortunante accident, but we MUST be the laughingstock of the entire world at the moment. I really hope this guy doesn't die. I'm so embarassed for us

it's the least I can do.

- your trusty moderator

[Not Afraid]

Where in the hell did I put it?

[scaeagles]

In the Scalia thread.

[Not Afraid]

What in the hell was I doing there?

[scaeagles]

Put the wine on the table and back away, NA.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Letterman's Top Ten Dick Cheney Excuses

10. Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm
9. Wanted to get the Iraq mess of the front page
8. Not enough Jim Beam
7. Trying to stop the spread of bird flu
6. I love to shoot people
5. Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter
4. I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me
3. Excuse? I hit him didn't I?
2. Until Democrats approve Medicare reform, we have to make some tough choices for the elderly
1. Made bet with Gretzgy's wife

[wendybeth]

I just watched the rerun of this on Comedy Central. It is hysterical.
Jon Stewart: "I'm joined now by our own vice-presidential firearms mishap analyst, Rob Corddry. Rob, obviously a very unfortunate situation. How is the vice president handling it?

Rob Corddry: "Jon, tonight the vice president is standing by his decision to shoot Harry Wittington. According to the best intelligence available, there were quail hidden in the brush. Everyone believed at the time there were quail in the brush.

"And while the quail turned out to be a 78-year-old man, even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists he still would have shot Mr. Whittington in the face. He believes the world is a better place for his spreading buckshot throughout the entire region of Mr. Whittington's face."

Jon Stewart: "But why, Rob? If he had known Mr. Whittington was not a bird, why would he still have shot him?"

Rob Corddry: "Jon, in a post-9-11 world, the American people expect their leaders to be decisive. To not have shot his friend in the face would have sent a message to the quail that America is weak."

Jon Stewart: "That's horrible."

Rob Corddry: "Look, the mere fact that we're even talking about how the vice president drives up with his rich friends in cars to shoot farm-raised wingless quail-tards is letting the quail know 'how' we're hunting them. I'm sure right now those birds are laughing at us in that little 'covey' of theirs.

Jon Stewart: "I'm not sure birds can laugh, Rob."

Rob Corddry: "Well, whatever it is they do … coo .. they're cooing at us right now, Jon, because here we are talking openly about our plans to hunt them. Jig is up. Quails one, America zero.

Jon Stewart: "Okay, well, on a purely human level, is the vice president at least sorry?"

Rob Corddry: "Jon, what difference does it make? The bullets are already in this man's face. Let's move forward across party lines as a people … to get him some sort of mask."
One of the funniest Daily Shows ever.
:D

Lol! I loved the Nintendo Duck Hunt segment, showing how this could have happened. Great stuff, and it was fun seeing Jon so very, very happy.

[Gemini Cricket]

4. I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me
Hee hee hee.
:D

[LSPoorEeyorick]

No crime here. Accident.

Manslaughter: the unlawful killing of a human being without express or implied malice

It's a good thing that that heart attack didn't kill him, or it would have been crime, since the attack was caused by the birdshot in his heart.

I do think that the VP has responsibility to report things as significant as this, if just as a pre-emptive strike against the media reaction to follow. I do find it questionable that they prolonged releasing the news. I do find his callous refusal to publicly apologize a little distasteful. If you're a public figure, your private birdshot accidents aren't "private."

[Ghoulish Delight]

Manslaughter: the unlawful killing of a human being without express or implied malice
That's only part of the definition. If someone jumps in front of my car while I'm driving and dies, I am not guilty of manslaughter. Or if I'm firing down a firing range and someone runs out onto the range, I'm not responsible. That seems to be the likely case here. The victim did something stupid, he approached a hunting party without announcing himself. It's terribly distressing for all involved, but nothing illegal was done.

[Prudence]

In fairness, that definition says "unlawful killing." The "without express or implied malice" part is to distinguish it from other unlawful killings, like the various degrees of murder. The precise definitions vary between jurisdictions, but accidents are usually "unlawful." At best you'd get negligent homicide, and given the implied risk of being in a hunting party in the first place, that would have to be a mighty shocking accident.

[Ghoulish Delight]

As I read a more detailed definition, one thing does stick out...

The cases of manslaughter may be classed as follows those which take place in consequence of: 1. Provocation. 2. Mutual combat. 3. Resistance to public officers, etc. 4. Killing in the prosecution of an unlawful or wanton act. 5. Killing in the prosecution of a lawful act, improperly performed, or performed without lawful authority.
One might make the argument that his lack of hunting license might tread into the "without lawful authority" territory, but it seems unlikely that a proceduraly mistake will translate to criminal prosocution. The rest of that definition ("improperly performed" being key) certainly keeps him safely on the side of the law.

[wendybeth]

That, and he owns just about anyone who is anyone in DC. Like Jon says, don't mess with Dick- he'll shoot ya in the face!

[Gemini Cricket]

Now it's going to be up to the media to lay the blame on him. Then he's going to take the victim stance... or release another video of a bin Laden or that poor hostage to take our minds off of it.
Yesterday, I told Ralphie that the 2 ways the Bush Administration was going to get this story off of the front pages was to talk about bird flu or broadcast footage of the Christian Sciene Monitor journalist hostage. Both were 'headlines' on CNN.com within the last 12 hours replacing the Cheney story.

This is the current headline on CNN.com right now:
Iraqi TV ads appeal for U.S. hostage's release
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/15/iraq.main/index.html)

This was the headline before I went to bed at 10:30pm est:
Crisis meeting as bird flu spreads
Source (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/15/birdflu.wrap/index.html)

And I don't think they are coincidences. The media and the Bush Administration are corrupt.

[scaeagles]

Are you suggesting that CNN is in Bush's corner?

[Gemini Cricket]

Are you suggesting that CNN is in Bush's corner?
I have often thought that, yes. Wolf Blitzer's a total Bushie.

[scaeagles]

To me, that's comparable to saying that Fox News supports Clinton, Kerry, Gore and democrats in general, because Alan Colmes in on the network.

[Gemini Cricket]

To me, that's comparable to saying that Fox News supports Clinton, Kerry, Gore and democrats in general, because Alan Colmes in on the network.
Fox "News" is not real journalism. O'Reilly and Geraldo come from tabloid backgrounds. This station is sensationalized Op-Ed TV all the way. Thank you, Murdoch.

There's also CNN's Novak (who's now in limbo). Plame, anyone?

CNN - soft on Bush, soft on the lead up to the Iraq war, soft on post-9/11 investigations...

[scaeagles]

I guess it's all a matter of opinion and perspective. I view it in a slightly different fashion.

[The Shadoe]

The media and the Bush Administration are corrupt.

Funny you should say that, considering that the media tends to lean very much to the left. In general, the media (particularly CNN) is focused on ripping down the Bush Administration and Republicans in general. And they wonder why Fox News gets better ratings...

I remind you that the Clinton Administrations had more investigations into it than any other administration in American history. Now that's a "culture of corruption".

[Gemini Cricket]

The portrayal of the incident is one of the things that bugs me the most, I think.

For example, this is how it sounds like in the media:

'Vice President Cheney inadvertently peppered close friend Whittington with hunting device in quail frolic. Whittington is in good spirits and, of course, is to blame for the mishap. Whittington had minor heart shenanigans the other day, but is expected to recover fully. He's quite honored to have souvenirs of the hunting outing and will keep them close to his heart for the rest of his life."

Now, this is how it would be if this were anyone else in another country or another party for that matter:

"Politician shoots friend in the face with shot gun. Politician blames victim, Whittington, for incident. Whittington also suffered a heart attack when shot piece travelled through his body and came close to his heart. Politician is not commenting on the incident. The politician and party were hunting hand raised wingless quails released at the beginning of hunting session when the accident occurred."

;)

[scaeagles]

In the interests of deferring to hunters with more experience than I -

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060214-111127-7044r.htm

But there are a couple of things theat I find to be absolutely hilarious (not in the article above).

I came across an AP story comparing the Cheney incident to the duel between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr. What? I though that was funny.

Also, there is a conspiracy theorist out there who wrote some article - and to be upfront, I haven't read it, I heard about it on a local radio station - that this was no accident. It was a not-so-subtle message to Scooter Libby that he will be killed if he testifies to anything Cheney doesn't like in the Plame case. Got a good laugh out of that, too.

[Gemini Cricket]

Funny you should say that, considering that the media tends to lean very much to the left.
I completely disagree. The Right paints the media as 'Liberal' whenever the media says anything they disagree with. The Right is forever the victims in everything, so innocent, don't pick on us we don't deserve it... Yeah.

And, I'd love to hear an argument from Bush defenders that has nothing to do with the Clintons. I don't think they can. Does this mean that if a Dem gets in next that we can blame Bush for everything for 4-8 years? Oh goody! :)

[The Shadoe]

The thing that bothers me is that a non-political incident seems to be highly politicized by those who simply don't like Cheney, or Republicans in general.

[scaeagles]

I completely disagree. The Right paints the media as 'Liberal' whenever the media says anything they disagree with. The Right is forever the victims in everything, so innocent, don't pick on us we don't deserve it... Yeah.


The right has the victim mentality? Interesting.

As far as bias in the media, this came out not too long ago, from UCLA -

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664

[The Shadoe]

The bias is definately there. That's part of why I listen to the Laura Ingraham Show. She brings the media bias to light all the time. And you can't tell me that papers like The New York Times, Washington Post, Star Tribune, etc. don't pander to the left.

I try to read as many different articles I can about the same subject to gain a greater understanding. But some of these so-called reporters aren't interested in anything other than their own opinions. For instance, how come they don't talk to our brave men and women who are in Iraq and actually fighting and see what's going on? Could these people step out of their elite bubbles for even one moment? Very few of them have gone to visit the men and women who keep them free and making money. It's enough to drive me up the wall.

[Scrooge McSam]

MediaMatters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200512220003).com 's take on the UCLA study

[Motorboat Cruiser]

The bias is definately there. That's part of why I listen to the Laura Ingraham Show. She brings the media bias to light all the time. And you can't tell me that papers like The New York Times, Washington Post, Star Tribune, etc. don't pander to the left.

Check out mediamatters.com once in while and see how many times they are able to cite conservative bias in the media. They never have a slow day.

"Liberal media bias" is a nice clever way that the right came up with to be able to discount any bit of bad news that gets reported. It's really pretty ingenious.

For instance, how come they don't talk to our brave men and women who are in Iraq and actually fighting and see what's going on? Could these people step out of their elite bubbles for even one moment? Very few of them have gone to visit the men and women who keep them free and making money. It's enough to drive me up the wall.

Do you realize that the above paragraph could easily apply to this administration? Calls for more troops and body armor have been ignored time and time again. As far as visits, Al Franken has visited the troops far more times through the USO than even the President has.

[SacTown Chronic]

The bias is definately there. That's part of why I listen to the Laura Ingraham Show. She brings the media bias to light all the time.
You turn to Laura "war protesters are guilty of treason" Ingraham for an unbiased take on the world?

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Seriously dude, you don't really, right? Right?

[scaeagles]

Of course there are examples of left leaning and right leaning. Our perspective of which way it goes in the overall is relative to where we are on the political spectrum as well. We could get into anecdote by anecdote and never run out of examples supporting our position.

[The Shadoe]

I don't listen to Laura for unbiased opinion! But I do listen to her uncover the media bias.

A few weeks ago she said something similar to herself when talking about CBS News, and how ironic that organizations such as CBS -- which are supposedly the "gold standard" news reporting -- are completely biased. She then pointed out that she's not unbiased and is not trying to pass her show off that way, but that organizations which market themselves as being unbiased should truly act that way.

[wendybeth]

Chris Rock once referred to Laura I. as "one cold bitch"- I think he was pretty right with his analysis.

As for Clinton and investigations, might I remind you that Kenneth Star, paragon of legal virtue and darling of the Republicans, was recently nailed for submitting fabricated letters to the court while appealing for clemency for a client?

[The Shadoe]

Are we talking about the same Laura I.?

I've heard her be very harsh on people -- in particular I remember this interview with a member of Code Pink. By the time Ingraham was done with her, the woman was absolutely sputtering and couldn't say anything intelligible because Laura defeated every single one of the woman's lame arguments and actually got the woman to contradict herself. Laura is harsh and cold if she wants to be. But she was still respectful during the entire interview. She has a lot of tact.

But to say that's how she is in general, give me a break! I listen to her every morning, and she is a warm, witty, intelligent, and caring woman. But I suppose if you get on her bad side and she beats you in a debate you may have that view of her. It's called being a sore loser.

Last week she visited Iraq. I recommend everyone read her Iraq Journal (http://www.lauraingraham.com/pg/jsp/general/iraqjournal.jsp).

[wendybeth]

It was Comedy Central's Indecision/Politically Incorrect show, and Chris was 'reporting' from the floor of the Republican Convention. It was one of the few times I've ever seen her shut her mouth for more than two seconds.

(Chris was just commenting on her rant against liberals, welfare and such- not engaged in a conversation with her).

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I remind you that the Clinton Administrations had more investigations into it than any other administration in American history. Now that's a "culture of corruption".

Yes, numerous investigations at the taxpayers expense to the tune of millions of dollars. All but the last one, led absolutely nowhere. The last one led to a blowjob.

Care to compare that to the investigations of Scooter, Cheney, Delay, Frist, Abramoff, Cunningham, and a whole bunch of others?

Culture of corruption indeed.

[scaeagles]

I'll take on the culture of corruption. I just get in trouble for bringing up such things from past administrations. I could post some very interesting figures on the number of Clinton associates and business partners who were indicted and or convicted. I could post links about Reno and Espy and Cisneros and Gore....well, you get the idea.

MBC, you say the investigations during the Clinton adminstration led to nowhere, but then point to investigations in this adminstration that have led to...well....nowhere, and in fact included Abramoff in the list, who was involved with both parties. So...if you want I can post the numbers of indictments and convictions and a historical perspective of other administrations and special investigations.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

MBC, you say the investigations during the Clinton adminstration led to nowhere, but then point to investigations in this adminstration that have led to...well....nowhere.

Don't you think that it is just a tad premature to say that the current investigations have led nowhere?

[scaeagles]

Don't you think that it is just a tad premature to say that the current investigations have led nowhere?

Sorry - I figured "as of yet" was implied in my statement. Of course it is premature to say nothing is going to come of them.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So a guilty plea is nowhere?

[Not Afraid]

I'll take on the culture of corruption. I just get in trouble for bringing up such things from past administrations. I could post some very interesting figures on the number of Clinton associates and business partners who were indicted and or convicted. I could post links about Reno and Espy and Cisneros and Gore....well, you get the idea.



The sad part is that, it doen't matter what the party affiliation is, the corruption is previlent throughout. I think we get bogged down in who is better or, rather, who is more corrupt when, really does it matter. There really shouldn't be sizable corruption at all.

Yes, and this IS the best of all possible worlds, Dr. Pangloss. :rolleyes:

[scaeagles]

So a guilty plea is nowhere?

You refer to Abramoff? I beleive that's nowhere only in terms of it being a republican scandal. The current "culture of corruption", as put forth by the dems, is saying that it is the republicans who are at the heart of it. As has been posted in other threads, one of those shouting the loudest about this is Harry Reid, and the links from him to Abramoff's money and staff are prevalent. Now, Reid says they are completely legit, and they may be. He doesn't seem to afford anyone else the same benefit of the doubt.

[SacTown Chronic]

Incidentally, the man Cheney shot had a heart attack today (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/14/cheney/index.html).
I demand that a feeding tube be inserted ASAP.

[Gemini Cricket]

But what's this? Could Whittington and/or the veep have been drunk?

According to the report, which appeared briefly Tuesday on MSNBC, Armstrong peddled the line that she did not believe that alcohol played a part in the shooting accident. But, she admitted, "There may be a beer or two in there, but remember not everyone in the party was shooting."

The MSNBC story, which appeared only briefly before the website was scrubbed for reasons not yet explained, has been kept alive by the able web investigators at TheRawStory and other progressive blogs. And so it should be, as the prospect that alcohol may have been involved in the Texas incident takes the story in a whole new direction.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060215/cm_thenation/160212;_ylt=A86.I1cDX_ND4h4BGQj9wxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBj MHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--)

[Prudence]

The sad part is that, it doen't matter what the party affiliation is, the corruption is previlent throughout. I think we get bogged down in who is better or, rather, who is more corrupt when, really does it matter. There really shouldn't be sizable corruption at all.



This is the point I was going to make, but NA beat me to it. Why does the response from either side end up at "oh yeah? well your guy was worse!" How is that helpful? It's no wonder we have a political culture of "the lesser of two evils."

[Gemini Cricket]

This just in to GCNN ;) :

Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday accepted full blame for shooting a fellow hunter and defended his decision to not publicly disclose the accident until the following day. He called it "one of the worst days of my life."

"I'm the guy who pulled the trigger that fired the round that hit Harry," Cheney told Fox News Channel in his first public comments since the shooting Saturday in south Texas.

Cheney described seeing 78-year-old Harry Whittington fall to the ground after he pulled the trigger while aiming at a covey of quail.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney)

[Not Afraid]

There you go! That's the spin. "I was so horrified by what happened I just couldn't bring myself to talk about it publicly."

[Gemini Cricket]

"You can talk about all of the other conditions that exist at the time but that's the bottom line and — it was not Harry's fault," he said. "You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."
Yes, Dick. You are totally right.

[innerSpaceman]

I don't know if you can call it being a man about it if you must be forced by public outrage to be a man about it.




(and yeah, there's not a whole lot that Cheney could ever do in his lifetime to satisfy me. but apologizing before the vast media and public outcry about the lack of an apology might have had a chance)

[Nephythys]

For one cold bitch- she has approval ratings in the 80's

Not bad for a cold bitch - puh-lease.

[MickeyLumbo]

he had a beer at lunch.

i blame the beer company.

[Gemini Cricket]

I woke up this morning to my alarm clock that plays the radio. The song that was playing was 'Cheney's Got a Gun' to the tune of Aerosmith's 'Janie's Got a Gun'. The person singing sounded a lot like Tyler. Funny, funny stuff.
I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere.

[scaeagles]

Well done song parodies are great regardless of who they are making fun of. I heard it and thought it was pretty funny.

[CoasterMatt]

http://www.bobrivers.com/audiovault/downloads/downloads.asp

The audio and video are there :)

[Prudence]

That would be Spike on vocals. Bob Rivers and co. are a local institution.