Netflix Throttling

[Gemini Cricket]

Manuel Villanueva realizes he has been getting a pretty good deal since he signed up for Netflix's online DVD rental service 2 1/2 years ago, but he still feels shortchanged.

That's because the $17.99 monthly fee that he pays to rent up to three DVDs at a time would amount to an even bigger bargain if the company didn't penalize him for returning his movies so quickly.

Netflix typically sends about 13 movies per month to Villanueva's home in Warren, Mich. — down from the 18 to 22 DVDs he once received before the company's automated system identified him as a heavy renter and began delaying his shipments to protect its profits.

Source (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3656905.html)

I don't rent 18-22 DVDs a month, but I am finding myself to be in the same boat Mr. Villanueva is in. I rent about 11 films a month. My Netflix films are taking longer to get to me and it is harder for me to get new releases. I guess I'm a heavy renter, but should I be penalized for that? I don't think that's quite fair.

I used to be able to return DVDs on Friday and get a new one on Monday. Now if I turn it in on a Friday, I get it back on Tuesday and sometimes Wednesday! I just returned 'Curse of the Were-Rabbit' on Friday and it's Wednesday and no new film yet.

I love the convenience of Netflix's service, but I'm thinking of just cancelling my account. I would go to Blockbuster's service but I hear they're going bankrupt.

Any thoughts?

[Alex]

I go through 15-20 Netflix movies a month and still experience a two-day turn around (and this includes when I drop a disc off at the post office after it closes; say on a Monday I still usually have the next disc on Wednesday). I'm still on the 4-at-a-time plan that was the only one available when I signed up.

To the best of my recollection I've never not had the next disc go out on the same day the previous one arrived. I'm not saying Netflix doesn't throttle just that it doesn't seem to affect me. It's probably because I almost never use Netflix for new-release mass-market movies (but the expenses are the same regardless of what movies I rent).

I'm on the fence about whether it is a bad thing or not but I understand why they do it. And people have been complaining about it since almost the beginning. I remember back shortly after I signed up a guy who had a Web site dedicated to tracking the variations in shipping time depending on how many movies he'd rented in the last month.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I understand netflix's policy, I just wish they would have been more upfront about it. According to them, it costs 78 cents to ship a DVD to and from you. Rent enough movies and they make zero profit. If enough people do it, they are out of business.

I usually rent about 10 dvds a month from them and I get them 2 days after I return the previous ones. This is still a better bargain than blockbuster with no late fees and a much better selection. I think that Netflix is still a great value, even if I can't rent 30 movies a month from them.

[Prudence]

Wouldn't it make more sense for them to just announce a monthly limit if that's their intent?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wouldn't it make more sense for them to just announce a monthly limit if that's their intent?
That takes away their flexibility. They want to be able to be less strict if you're not renting new-releases or other hard-to-get titles. If they set a hard "no more than X per month" limit, they won't be able to adapt to each customer, which is the most efficient way to do it.

I haven't really combed through the agreement in a while. I'm betting that since they lost a settlement already, they've added language in the agreement that says that they will adjust delivery speed as they see fit.

[Alex]

As a note of anecdotal irrelevance. Yesterday, at about 4:30p.m. I dropped of Autumn Sonata at the post office (the 24th disc since the beginning of the year). I got an email from Netflix at 3:48 this morning saying that they had received it and another at 9:18 saying my next one was shipping. I expect to have March of the Penguins in tomorrow's mail (about 45 hours after dropping Autumn Sonata into a mailbox).


Like I said, completely irrelevant anecdotal evidence.

[katiesue]

A lot depends too on the post office you drop it off at. The one near my home is a regional distribution center. When I had netflix if I dropped it off there netflix had it in under 24hrs. From the post office by my office it took longer.

I was watching 6-9 movies a week, I did notice sometimes it took a while to get the newer releases but I never had problems with older or more unpopular titles. After a year I kind of ran out of things on my list of moives I wanted to see so I cancelled my membership.

[innerSpaceman]

At one time I was a heavy renter, and this would have alarmed me enough to look into whether it was true or internet mythic.

As things stand, however, I can only manage to go through 4 or 5 films a month. I have been annoyed with Netflix ever since their Catch-22 policy in settlement of their last class action lawsuit. Even if true, then, this shipping policy would not surprise me. But, as it doesn't affect me, I'm not going to get up in arms about it.

[Alex]

Thinking about it more, I don't think I can justify Netflix actually delaying the shipment of another DVD to limit the number of discs received in a month (and so far Netflix denies that they do this).

However, shipping popular discs is another issue. Netflix doesn't have an unlimited supply of DVDs. If, when a copy of their current #1 DVD (The Aviator) comes back in, there are 83 people that currently have it at the top of their queue, there needs to be some system for determining who is going to get it. Perhaps random selection would be most fair but I can't get to upset if they decided to go with preferring those with the fewest rentals.

Also, if your queue is full of in demand movies you run into a self throttling problem. Let's say the top 10 spots on your queue are the top 10 requested DVDs and the bottom 490 spots are all obscure Italian films that nobody but you will ever want to watch.

You send in a disc. Netflix's computers tries to give you your #1 movie, but no discs are in stock. Same with #2-#10. So you get #11. You watch it and send it back and you next get what was #12 since #1-10 are still not in stock. Six months go by and you've seen movies 11-34 and #2 because once you got lucky and it was in stock.

I wonder if Netflix might not, instead, put in a pause before shipping the next movie if it has to go too far down the list to find one in stock (that is, your #1 won't be available in the 2 hour window between a movie coming in and it trying to send out the next one) but if it waits for a day the chances of giving you #1 will be much higher though you'll have waited longer.

I once applied for a job at Netflix, but didn't get it so I don't know how their systems work. The bastards.

[Gemini Cricket]

Good points, all.

I hadn't thought about where I'm mailing it from. I'm going to try dropping it off at the post office near work and see if that makes a difference.

Unlike Alex, I use my netflix for new releases a lot. It's the only way I can get DVDs that aren't horribly scratched up. You'd think some people use these DVDs for drink coasters.
:D

[Ghoulish Delight]

You send in a disc. Netflix's computers tries to give you your #1 movie, but no discs are in stock. Same with #2-#10. So you get #11. You watch it and send it back and you next get what was #12 since #1-10 are still not in stock. Six months go by and you've seen movies 11-34 and #2 because once you got lucky and it was in stock.We had Netflix about 6 years ago, and this was not uncommon. But, it was completely transparent. Either you got the first item on your queue, OR, that item had a status of "Out of stock" (or whatever phrasing they used) and you'd get the next in-stock item on your list. 6 years ago, that happened consistently (with popular and unpopular movies alike since they probably only had 1 or 2 copies of unpopular movies).

We canceled our service for several years, and now that we're back, they seem to have significantly improved their supply of DVDs as I have yet to see anything on our list listed as "Out of stock". So we always get the first DVD on our queue. I don't see them skipping that first DVD without the "out of stock" status showing, and that just doesn't seem to happen, at least not within our distribution area.

Really, all they need to do to "get away with it" is make sure there's language in the terms and conditions that say they reserve the right to adjust shipment schedules as they feel necessary.

[Alex]

Here is an in depth analysis from 2003:

http://dvd-rent-test.dreamhost.com/

Also, another issue that occurred to me is that would increase the appearance of throttling for frequent new release renters:

Generally you will receive your discs from your local distribution center (Netflix has them all over the country and are essentially large video rental stores with no public access and robots) but when you request an in demand movie, in order to fulfill the request Netflix may not be able to provide it from the center just outside of Boston (in Worcester) but rather from the Cedar Rapids, Iowa, center. Needless to say, this will add shipping time.

I don't want to come off as too much of a Netflix apologist (though I love my Netflix). If they do anything that acts to limit the number and choices of DVDs you can have shipped then they should be completely open about it.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Unlike Alex, I use my netflix for new releases a lot. It's the only way I can get DVDs that aren't horribly scratched up. You'd think some people use these DVDs for drink coasters.
:D

Interesting. I must be very lucky in the sense that I have never received one disc from them that didn't play just fine. Granted, I've never actually paid much attention to the condition so they could be scratched beyond belief. They always sem to play fine though.

As far as turnaround times, I think a lot has to do with how close you are to the nearest netflix distribution warehouse. Luckily, ours is Santa Ana, which means quick turnarounds. My dads is 300 miles away in Kansas City so he waits an extra day or two.

[Alex]

I've had it skip movies that make it to the top of the list with Availabilities other than "Now" (such as Short Wait, Long Wait, or Very Long Wait). But on my nearly 500 disc queue only about 20 have non-now availabilities.

[innerSpaceman]

OMG, I've received tons of discs that are too messed up to play. Using them as coasters would not do the kind of damage I am used to seeing.

Dog toys is more like it.

[Gemini Cricket]

Dog toys is more like it.
My dog likes the return envelopes. Shred shred shred. Dinglecheese dog!
:D

[Ghoulish Delight]

We've received a few with skips, but 99% of the time, our magic scratch repair goop does the trick.

[Gemini Cricket]

We've received a few with skips, but 99% of the time, our magic scratch repair goop does the trick.
I'll have to find that stuff. I got half way through 'Judgement at Nuremberg' and it stopped. The movie's like 4 hours long or something like that. Damn you, Netflix!
:D

[Nephythys]

I just joined Netflix. I had Blockbuster before, and the longer I had their service the longer it took to get things. I would mail it in, and it would take a week or more to clear my queue. I got a broken DVD, reported it and asked for the same movie to be shipped, they never did. They kept sending other options, even though my top options showed as available.

I finally cancelled it- but since I like getting movies that way, I joined NetFlix on Monday. My first movie was shipped Tuesday and according to them, I should have it today. So we'll see.

I'm only doing the one at a time option- to check it out.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'll have to find that stuff. I got half way through 'Judgement at Nuremberg' and it stopped. The movie's like 4 hours long or something like that. Damn you, Netflix!
:Dhttp://www.cdscratchremover.com/

[Gemini Cricket]

http://www.cdscratchremover.com/
Thanks!

[alphabassettgrrl]

We just cancelled our Blockbuster movies by mail account. It was taking them three days to check in a movie. We've never gotten 18 movies in a month but we take a couple of days to get to a movie. We've maxed at maybe 12 a month. It's an amazingly convenient system but I dislike the rental limit. We had requested a decent mix, some new releases, some older movies. With hubby in school again, we don't have the time to watch a million movies so we'll just rent them one at a time when we want one.

[Moonliner]

One thing I have noticed that can make a big difference in the Nexflix turn around time is the bar-code. On the white DVD-sleeve for the movie is a bar code. If you place the disk into the red return envelope correctly then that bar code shows through the little window. When I remember to do that right it can shave a day or two off the return time.

[Gemini Cricket]

One thing I have noticed that can make a big difference in the Nexflix turn around time is the bar-code. On the white DVD-sleeve for the movie is a bar code. If you place the disk into the red return envelope correctly then that bar code shows through the little window. When I remember to do that right it can shave a day or two off the return time.
I thought that may be the problem with my rentals, so I made sure the barcode was in the window. It made no difference, at least for me...

[innerSpaceman]

I hate that the barcode window placement goes against anglo-common sense for placing the disc right-side-up in the envelope.


On a side note, between the movies I get from Netflix and the ones I get as Academy screeners, it's a wonder I ever go to movie theaters anymore. I think home theater is going to put movie theaters out of business some time in the next quarter century.

[€uroMeinke]

I think home theater is going to put movie theaters out of business some time in the next quarter century.

If current batch of noisy theater patrons don't casueit first ;)

[Gemini Cricket]

I think home theater is going to put movie theaters out of business some time in the next quarter century.
I think you're right. Going to a movie theatre is a real trial now. High ticket prices, expensive goodies, bad sound, blurry picture, sticky floors, theatre seats with black spots on them, cell phones ringing/singing, people talking during the movies, people kicking my chair, people sneaking in through the exit, crying babies, unattractive theatre goers, dead people on the ground... A real pain, I tells ya.

[Moonliner]

... bad sound, blurry picture, sticky floors, theatre seats with black spots on them, cell phones ringing/singing, people talking during the movies, people kicking my chair, people sneaking in through the exit, crying babies, unattractive theatre goers, dead people on the ground...

Sounds like all the same reasons I like to leave my house and go out to a moive...

[Alex]

I'm pretty sure I know the barcode window in the envelope and it doesn't have much (if anything) to do with disc returns (notice that no instructions are given on how to put the disc back in the envelope for return).

The window in the envelope allows process improvements for shipping. It used to be that the window wasn't there, so they had to work hard that the correct disc ended up in the envelope with your mailing label on it.

This way they can just put any disc into the next unlabelled envelope, seal it, and send it through their printer which will scan the visible barcode for the contained disc and then print the appropriate label.

They might be rescanning when the envelopes come back but if so they're not promoting it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

http://www.cdscratchremover.com/This stuff is fantastic. I bought some for work. You should see the state of the DVDs that people check out! Any time we have a complaint about a DVD that skips, I goop it, and it works about 90% of the time. Definitely worth the purchase price.

[mousepod]

Not to derail the conversation, but I've heard really good things about nicheflix (http://www.nicheflix.com/). I'll bet I'm not the only one here who grooves on the kind of movies they carry.
All you need is a region-free DVD player.

...carry on.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I hate that the barcode window placement goes against anglo-common sense for placing the disc right-side-up in the envelope.
(notice that no instructions are given on how to put the disc back in the envelope for return).Actually, on the old envelopes they used to instruct you to place the disc into the envelope right side up. I'll bet that flows better for people to take the disc out of the returned envelope.

[NickO'Time]

I really enjoyed have enjoyed Netflix so far. I rent about 3-6 per week, growing up I missed alot of great films. So I see this as catching up.:D ;)

This maybe a yucky thing to say. I'm really glad to see Blockbuster go down. I had an awful experience with returning a movie in which I clearly handed the movie to the clerk and she just set it on the counter. The next visit I ended up disputing the charge and calling a district manager about the mistake.

Netflix rocks.

[wendybeth]

I know of more people that had experiences like yours, TTD, than didn't when dealing with Blockbuster- I personally despise them and would never rent from them. We don't do NetFlix, but it sounds like a good deal. What happens if the movie gets lost in the mail, though?

[NickO'Time]

So far I haven't had that happen. I have had broken discs but after I reported them damaged, I recieved them quickly. I have to say that it has been a good experience-again so far.:)

[orbitalpunk]

I love me my netflix... But they do throttle me like a thief. Ordered "March of the Penguins" ages ago and was on a wait list for ever. My neighbor just signed up and got it in a few days.

[Gemini Cricket]

What happens if the movie gets lost in the mail, though?
If a DVD that was to be shipped to you is lost, you report it as lost in your queue and they send you a new one. Also, I reported that Netflix did not receive one I mailed to them and they didn't end up charging me for the movie (but the movie did show up somehow a couple of weeks later).

Due to receiving late DVDs and scratched DVDs, I have been credited in two separate occasions with a month's free membership. This was after I called and complained to someone in India (Honest. I asked where I was calling and chatted with a really sweet lady about the weather in India. She was hesitant to tell me where in India though. I'm not sure why...).

I do like Netflix and have been using them for several years (actually per the recommendation of Alex in an old MP thread). However, this new wrinkle bugs. They need to give up the 'unlimited' motto or stop flagging people. They're penalizing people for liking and watching movies. :D

[LSPoorEeyorick]

On a side note, between the movies I get from Netflix and the ones I get as Academy screeners, it's a wonder I ever go to movie theaters anymore. I think home theater is going to put movie theaters out of business some time in the next quarter century.

Oh, you're probably right. Aw, but I like movie theaters! I haven't had that bad an experience of late, but there's always one movie out of ten where someone is horribly rude and uncouth. Those people aside, there's nothing like sitting in the dark with popcorn and having a shared experience. Funny movies are funnier with an audience. Moving ones are more moving.

With the popping of "Bubble," I wonder what that means for the simulatenous release process? I don't think the cinemas are going to go for it, but maybe that's going to bite them in the end.

[Nephythys]

humm, immediate bummer. They made a huge deal in emails that the first movie should be here yesterday. No movie.

Not going to jump the gun- I just signed up, but I'll be watching it. They checked my area and had this big bold announcement of how movies should only take one day to get to me-so the reality is not living up to their hype.

I'm cool with two days- but when they make a fuss over it, and toot their horn and it doesn't work out- it's :(....but I'll give it time.

[Prudence]

I miss little non-chain video stores. I'm sure Netflix is wonderful for getting you things you request, and sure, you hit up others for recommendations, but that doesn't replace the serendipity of browsing a shelf of truly weird films and finding some unheard of gem.

[Gemini Cricket]

...but that doesn't replace the serendipity of browsing a shelf of truly weird films and finding some unheard of gem.
I totally agree. I miss going to rental stores and physically having the copy in hand and reading the back. I loved the old stores with just walls and walls of movies.
:)

[Alex]

I will never miss actually going to video stores. And I'll trade the serendipity of browsing for the convenience of reading something online having something catch my eye (such as a compilation of Roger Ebert's Top 10 lists from the '70s) and being able to put it immediately in my queue so I can't forget to actually watch the film (though with my queue it may be a few years later before I actually do so).

But then, in a video store there is never enough information provided about a movie to determine if some weird looking movie is worth watching or just a weird bad movie.

As for lost movies it has been quite a while since that happened but early on I had a huge problem with it. About 30% of the movies shipped in the first six months I was a member never showed up. I suspect that someone at Mailboxes, Etc. (Netflix envelopes didn't fit in my dinky apartment mailbox) was stealing them. Netflix has a pretty painless system for reporting discs missing and will just send another copy of the same movie or the next on your queue depending on your preference. They will eventually suspend your account if enough go missing but in the years since my initial problems I've probably had to report 2 or 3 discs a year and not heard a peep from them.

On playability I do seem lucky (or just have a really forgiving DVD player) and had only a four or five discs out of the many hundreds received that had difficulty playing and all but one of those was resolved wth some cleaning.

Nephythys, once they put it in the mail it is in the hands of the USPS so things can't be completely guaranteed. I recently returned 4 movies at the same time. They all cleared Netflix within a few minutes of each other and the next four discs all went out at the same time. The next day I received 3 of them and the fourth didn't arrive for two more days.

[Gemini Cricket]

I blame Alex for my Netflix woes.

:D

[Alex]

Yeah, I'm stealing the good end of the customer service curve, leaving everybody with the crappy end of the stick.

[Gemini Cricket]

Yeah, I'm stealing the good end of the customer service curve, leaving everybody with the crappy end of the stick.
That and you got me addicted in the first place.
:D

[Nephythys]

Yeah- I get the whole postal service thing. I guess I just think that the bells and whistles of one day delivery start to ring a little hollow when it doesn't actually work that way.

[Prudence]

Who cared if the video store movie was crappy?! That was half the point! The routine was that we would get one semi-serious movie -- like an actual in the mainstream theatres movie, and one absolute load of crap we'd never heard of. Who cared what the box blurb was?! It was all about the cover picture. Bad sci-fi, bad campy horror, bad pseudo-serious horror, bad softcore masquerading as edgy art film... Of course, when one video store near me went out of business I did get a chance to purchase a few of my favorites from the stock. But it's just not the same as a walk-by browse.

[Drince88]

Does Netflix ship out via first class USPS?

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's bulk rate first class, yes.

[Drince88]

It's bulk rate first class, yes.
I thought bulk rate and first class were mutually exclusive categories.

I was considering doing the Net Flix thing (my local rental store is still closed - no staff) - but I can't do it if it's not first class - the mail is still too unreliable, and I live in the area where I CAN get all classes of service, including magazines (many zip codes in Orleans Parish are still without magazines)

[Alex]

Standard bulk mail is the equivelant of third class mail. But standard bulk mail requires that every item shipped be identical (not identical in shape and weight but also in content except for personalization of names based on recipient - so you can't use standard bulk mail to send out 500 cable bills).

Since Netflix's contents are not identical they have to use presorted first class bulk mail if they want discounted postage. That has the same delivery time commitments as regular first class. They just get discounts by doing some of the work for the USPS (barcodes on the envelopes, presorted by zip code, etc.).

So if you can reliably get first class USPS mail then you should be fine with Netflix. It doesn't look like they are running any special referer offers (usually one free month on the three-at-a-time plan) but if it is a while before you decide to take the plunge you should check on that first.

[Drince88]

Thanks, Alex!
It'll probably be a bit - I have to decide if I'd really actually watch the movies at all. The 'reliablility' of my first class mail aside (I just got something on the 18th that was postmarked the 10th, from Midland, TX), I just started thinking about this, so it'll be a while before I make the plunge.

[Kevy Baby]

Further boring you with how the USPS works and the costs that Netflix deals with:

Alex is correct that due to Postal regulations, they cannot be sending these via Standard (bulk) rates. Also, the delivey timing of Standard Mail (much slower than First Class, even with BMC drop shipments) would REALLY have Netflix customers up in arms!.

Netflix is getting some level of automation Postage discounts. However, they are still paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-31 cents per single disk mailed (I'm pretty sure that a single disk would remain under 1 oz.). Don't forget that the postage cost of the return (using Business Reply Mail - the service where the returnee does not have to put a stamp on the return piece) is 36.6¢ each*.

The round trip postage is approximately 67¢ for each disk. If someone is renting 20 disks per month, that is $13.40 per month in Postage costs alone. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for Netflix to make any money.

As far as timing, the USPS will tell you they have 7-10 days to deliver First Class mail. However, the national average for First Class delivery into homes with Automation is 3-5 days (assuming Coast-to-Coast - if I remember correctly, Netflix mails out of Northern California). If you live in a larger metropolitan area, you typically will see quicker delivery than if you live in some podunk area such as East Washington. Yes, you will see the exceptions (I would predict that the 7-day delivery that Drince references was probably a hand-addressed, non-aotomated letter), but they are fairly consistent in their timing; weather delays aside.


* I am assuming High Volume QBRM rates.

[Kevy Baby]

While not the subject of the OP, I thought this story tied in.

Missing Netflix? The mailman did it! (http://www.cinematical.com/2006/01/06/missing-netflix-the-mailman-did-it/)

[Ghoulish Delight]

(assuming Coast-to-Coast - if I remember correctly, Netflix mails out of Northern California).Actually, Netflix has local distribution centers around the country. For instance, our return enevelopes are addressed to "Nearest Netflix Shipping Facility" in Santa Ana.

[Kevy Baby]

Actually, Netflix has local distribution centers around the country. For instance, our return enevelopes are addressed to "Nearest Netflix Shipping Facility" in Santa Ana.Yeah, I should have looked that up. There are actually 37 according to the Netflix site (http://www.netflix.com/PressRoom?id=5206&hnjr=3). That's actually pretty impressive considering there really isn't any cost savings for Netflixt to do this (from a postage/shipping perspective).

One item to note: while Netflix advertises a one-business day delivery, that is from when they ship to arrival into your home. However, I am presuming that they do not ship until they get the previous one back. While I am sure that they have worked with the local Post Offices to expedite returns as best they can, return mail can take a day or two. Add another day for Netflix internal processing, and the turn-around time can add up.

When we tried Netflix a few years ago, they allowed you to log in to tell them you have shipped a disk back; they wouldn't wait to actually receive the disk before sending your next selection. I'm guessing that they don't do that any more.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Add another day for Netflix internal processing, and the turn-around time can add up.If you're in an area with efficient service (as we are), this is what the turnaround looks like:

Put your return envelope in the mail Monday, received by Netflix Tuesday, Netflix ships your next DVD on Tuesday, you receive it Wednesday.

Since we started service again last year, it's only taken longer than that once or twice, and in those cases it came only one day after that. If you've got 3 DVDs out and stagger your returns, you can very easily get a nice steady flow of DVDs to watch.

[Moonliner]

I ran across a site called "Moviebeam (http://www.moviebeam.com)" it's a Netflix like service that "beams" regular and some High-Def movies into a set-top box. You pay between $1.99 and $4.99 for each movie you watch. Could be a good way to get some new release HD content.