NCAA Tourney - greatest sporting event in the world [Archive]

scaeagles

03-16-2006, 12:56 PM

Good Lord I love this tourney. Already in the first two games, one was a minor upset with Wisc - Milwaukee (11) beating Oklahoma (6), and right now Pacific (13) is beating a highly touted BC team by 6 in OT.

Billy Packer, eat poop. He sat on his high horse talking about the selection process and how these little schools don't belong in the NCAA tourney with the likes of BC and other teams from the Big East and the ACC.

Damn right they do, Packer. The greatest part of the tourney is the little guys beating the established powers, or at least pushing them to the wire when no one thinks they should.

SacTown Chronic

03-16-2006, 01:09 PM

Yeah! Eat poop, Packer.

Moonliner

03-16-2006, 01:13 PM

Ohh, I thought you were going to compare and contrast the NCAA thingy to World Cup Soccer.. Oh well.. ;)

scaeagles

03-16-2006, 01:21 PM

Though Pacific lost to BC in 2OT, it was one fine, fine game (until the 2nd OT, when Pacific just disintegrated).

€uroMeinke

03-16-2006, 01:21 PM

Can we add a fashion element to this thread and discuss the fact that more sports teams are using black in their colors as it helps to psychologically intimidate their opponants?

(I've no idea if this is even true - but someone was claiming it in a snippet of the Santa Monica City Council meeting I accidentally tuned in on)

scaeagles

03-16-2006, 01:23 PM

Moonliner

03-16-2006, 01:48 PM

Well, when my 6th grade daughter plays basketball, I will only buy her black high tops for exactly that purpose. She's going to have a black mouth piece when she gets to that level. So many girls wear pink high tops or white with pink stripes or something. Not intimidating in the least.

I'm not so worried about the color of my girls uniform. I'm just happy we found a B-ball coach that teaches solid teamwork and skills for winning. So many coaches around here are of the "as long as you have fun" mentality. It's actually quite amusing to watch the parents of the opposing team go apoplectic when our 4th grade girls set a double pick and the ball handler just breezes down the center lane for a layup.

scaeagles

03-16-2006, 01:50 PM

Have to teach that stuff early. During my HS off season, I take my daughter and her friends down to the gym at the school and run some drills on fundamentals and team work and then let them play.

Good for your 4th grade daughter to even know what a double screen is!

scaeagles

03-16-2006, 03:10 PM

And now you have a 15 seed Winthrop holding a 1 point lead over a 2 seed Tennessee with under 3 to go! Go underdogs!

Ghoulish Delight

03-17-2006, 12:52 PM

I heard an interesting discussion on NPR the other day. An econimonist feels that he has demonstrated statistically that points-shaving is rather rampant in NCAA basketball. He bases this on 3 observations he made by studying a large sampling of games in which one team was heavily favored over the other from the past few years:

1) The win-loss distribution (not factoring in the spread, just raw wins and losses) was exactly what would be predicted by the odds.

2) There were significantly more wins by the favored team that were decided by just under the point spread than statistically predicted.

3) Conversely, there were significantly fewer wins by the favored team that were decided by just over the point spread.

It's certainly a compelling argument. He was quick to point out that he didn't have enough data from any single team to point fingers and say, "These guys were point shaving!" He can only look in aggregate and conclude that something is definitely skewing the results from their statistical distribution.

Moonliner

03-17-2006, 12:56 PM

Alex

03-17-2006, 01:57 PM

Based on the title I was assuming this thread would contain talk of both the NCAA basketball tournament and the greatest sporting event in the world.

Since the NCAA basketball tournament involves college basketball it seems clear to me they can't be the same thing. So when do we begin discussing World Cup? What do you think of the efforts Germany is taking to prevent (predominantly British) hooliganism from marring the games?

Alex

03-17-2006, 02:02 PM

So how can I use that to make a killing with my sports bookie?

It won't make you a killing but it suggests you shouldn't take the favorite when the favored has a huge spread (what defines "heavily favored" I don't know).

Rather than point shaving, though, this statistical analysis, it seems to me, might instead show a psychological skewing in the voting pool (the bettors) as to just how easily a heavily favored team should dominate a lesser team. All the bookies are trying to do is keep an equal number of people on both sides of the decision.

So, if people tend to think "School A is so much better than School B that they should win by 20 points" when in actuality it is very difficult to consistently win by more than 15 points no matter how much better you are, then this might explain bookies setting the spread at 18 and the games more often being on the low side than the high side (rather than equally on both sides as a purely rational system would suggest).

scaeagles

03-17-2006, 02:55 PM

I would tend to agree with Alex. Except for the comment about world cup soccer, which borders on heresy to this sports fan, but I do realize that world wide world cup soccer is much more popular.

I am glad, though, that when someone gacks in college basketball, they aren't murdered by fans in their home country, such as the poor Columbian who put the ball in his own net against the US whenever it was. Of course, it was probably not the average fan doing that, but you know what I mean. Internationally, soccer fans are a brutal bunch. Anyway.....back to my agreement with Alex.

Sports book is all about having an equivalent number of betters on both teams. The house takes their cut, and payouts are roughly equivalent. Changing lines are not about changes in the quality of the teams. It is about trying to get more people to bet the other way.

scaeagles

03-17-2006, 03:00 PM

Now, back to the serious business of the tournament.

I witnessed what will be a tournament highlight for many years to come - the guy from NW St. hitting a covered fall away three from the corner at the buzzer (well, basically - .5 seconds left) to take a 63-62 lead over Iowa and win the game. That guy will be the new Bryce Drew from Valparaiso (of a similar huge upset a decade or so ago).

What warmed my heart is that this was from a tiny school. Iowa is the Big 10 champion. Billy Packer, eat dirt. The Big 10, one of the 4 or 5 power conferences, just had their champion lose to a mid major that you don't think should have the right to play in the tournament.

I LOVE THIS TIME OF YEAR!

One of the best parts is that during my surgical recovery, I'm supposed to be resting, so I can park my butt guilt free and watch hour after hour after hour yesterday through the rest of the weekend.

scaeagles

03-19-2006, 12:29 PM

Boo-ya!

A 13 seed Bradley heading to the Sweet 16. One of the teams the Mr. Billy Packer doesn't think deserves to be in the tournament at all. Also had a 2 seed Tennessee (highly over rated and un deserving of a 2 seed in my mind - even before they lost) lose yesterday.

wendybeth

03-19-2006, 02:17 PM

Speaking of small school vs large school, may I bring up the Gonzaga win over Indiana yesterday? Just the day before, one of the Indiana dweebs had been on the news, trash-talking Gonzaga and bragging about how they were going to mop the floor with them.

Revenge is sweet. (As in Sweet 16!)

Prudence

03-19-2006, 03:50 PM

Go Gonzaga!

scaeagles

03-19-2006, 06:19 PM

And not to be outdone, George Mason University, an 11 seed, dethroned the defending National Champs North Carolina. I love cheering for the underdogs.

Regarding Gonzaga.....tell me about this Adam Morrison kid. I don't know anything about him, but he sure seems a bit full of himself on the court. He may be a great kid, but I've never seen any interviews with him or anything.

I don't know if I can really think of Gonzaga as a small school in terms of basketball. They have become a notional power, rising up out of the underdog status. Duke only has about 6000 or so undergrad students, and I would not think of them as a small school in terms of basketball. Gonzaga has about 4000 undergrads?

I like cheering for the untouted teams, that aren't suppsed to win....Like Bradley getting to the sweet 16 or George Mason beating UNC.

Alex

03-19-2006, 06:26 PM

Plus, in addition to basketball players, Gonzaga also produced Bing Crosby. Semi-literally, since his childhood home now houses the Gonzaga Alumni Association.

So, whatever respect Gonzaga gets for basketball, we are eternally in their debt for doing whatever they did that convinced Crosby to drop out and persue music instead of lawyering.

wendybeth

03-19-2006, 06:41 PM

Well, the Hoosiers certainly felt Gonzaga was a little nothing team that they would squash. They've had to fight tooth and nail for every win, and while they've been doing well in the past few years, they are certainly not the big, boostered team like so many of the others.

Adam Morrison comes across as arrogant, but he has his share of challenges in life. He's a diabetic, and must constantly monitor his condition, often stopping to inject insulin during games, etc. He is a flaming lib in a conservative Catholic school, and has been known to quote Marx just to piss of the higher-ups. I think he's a complicated, serious guy and he has a lot of pressure on him right now that he is handling very well. He and his supposed rival, Reddick, are actually friends.

His dad gets his hair done in our shop, and he's very proud of his son. Nice guy, nice family.

scaeagles

03-23-2006, 09:16 PM

Right now I'm watching those Zags make UCLA look like a bad high school team. Holy Cow they are simply embarrassing them.

There is one thing I can't seem to figure out about my NCAA tourney and the teams which I cheer for. Well, one team in particular. Mike Krzyzewski is perhaps the classiest coach in college basketball. Clean program. Wins and loses with more grace than any other coach. But I love to see them lose. I loved that they lost to LSU. Why is that?

Any other Duke haters out there?

scaeagles

03-23-2006, 10:31 PM

Well, I guess i have to take back the "bad high school team" comment. I cannot believe the Zags choked like they did. And it was a choke. UCLA scored the last 11 pts of the game to win by 2. UCLA trailed by 17 at one point, and 13 at the half. Wow.

Nothing against the Zags.....but that was a gack.

What a great night of basketball. Only one of the one was not competitive, one was decided in the last minute and two were decided by made or missed shots at the buzzer. Wow.

wendybeth

03-23-2006, 10:35 PM

Big old giant furball of a gack.

Still, the irony of Redick and Morrison both going out on the same day..... Great players, the both of them.

SacTown Chronic

03-24-2006, 07:48 AM

What scaeagles has done by all but declaring Gonzaga the winner before the final buzzer sounds is known as a jinx. Way to go, Leo.:evil:

Even though I have UCLA going to the Final Four in my bracket, I was rooting hard for Gonzaga. Oh well, the same old same old from the PNW, I guess.

Any other Duke haters out there?
Not really. I enjoy watching them lose as a heavy favorite but I don't have the foaming at the mouth hatred that many basketball fans seem to have when it comes to Duke. I actually root for them when they play UNC. I'm a North Carolina hater for the oh so shallow reason that you can't play b-ball at the park without running into 10 guys wearing Carolina gear.

Perhaps your Duke hatred stems from Coach K's lame commercials? Worst. Commercials. Ever.

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 09:15 AM

What scaeagles has done by all but declaring Gonzaga the winner before the final buzzer sounds is known as a jinx. Way to go, Leo.:evil:

I had to do something to keep my basketball pool hopes alive. I actually route for UCLA. Their coach, Ben Howland, took my alma mater, being Northern Arizona University, to their first NCAA tourney, where they almost beat St Johns as a 15 seed (don't remember the year), losing by 1 when they missed a shot at the buzzer.

Perhaps your Duke hatred stems from Coach K's lame commercials? Worst. Commercials. Ever.

In thinking about it, it comes down to that I think of Duke as the big white cry baby whiner school. Danny Ferry. Christian Laettner. I used to think the same of Bobby Hurley, but he earned some respect from when when he came back from the horrific auto accident to continue his NBA career. It looks like their current big frosh McRoberts is going to fit right in with that crowd.

Ghoulish Delight

03-24-2006, 09:28 AM

Wow. I flipped on CBS to watch the game...apparantly CBS was as confident as Leo, 'cause they had stopped covering UCLA and were showing a different game.

All I can say is, sweet! Fight, fight, fight!

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 10:42 AM

Oh...a side note....Adam Morrison, you don't lie on the court and cry after losing a game. Crying is OK, but falling on the court and sobbing is not cool. Take it to the locker room after taking it like a man and shaking hands with the other team.

Reddick was teary eyed, and that's fine. Emotion is involved. But he went to the bench, hugged some guys, shook hands, and then took it to the locker room.

SacTown Chronic

03-24-2006, 10:45 AM

Morrison does it for the cameras. His behaviour after the loss was as predictable as it is tiresome.

Moonliner

03-24-2006, 11:22 AM

Looks like I picked a hell of a night to take up basketball.

It's never been "my" sport but with my kids starting to get serious about playing I've been giving it more attention. I actually took some time (for the first time) to sit down and watch a college game last night. Starting with Duke getting the stuffing knocked out of them (yea!). Then the Texas game, wow! and finally the UCLA debacle. I can see why you like this game. Is it always like this? I may be hooked. I'll have to watch our two local teams play today... (Georgetown and that other one...)

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 11:33 AM

The tournament is typically like this, certainly. On any given weekend during the college season yo'll have your ugly blowouts and incredible games, just like with any other sport. I just prefer the intensity of the college athlete to the pro.

You have picked a good time to pick it up. If you really want to get hooked, next year, if there are any first/second round tournament games near you, go.

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 07:53 PM

Hey Moonliner - were you watching tonight?

Regarding that OT game between BC and Nova - when you are defending a baseline inbounds, and you are on the ball, your first job is to ensure that the inbounder cannot pass the ball across the lane. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Big gack.

SacTown Chronic

03-24-2006, 08:06 PM

Great game but, damn, is there a more unacceptable gaffe than the dreaded layup off a baseline inbounds pass? The BC kids have got to be physically ill right about now.

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 08:19 PM

And they should be. It wasn't like someone hit a great, well defended shot. They just gacked.

The other thing that would make me sick if I were on the BC team? They were 8/17 from the line. Under 50% and lose by 1 in OT. Ouch.

Moonliner

03-24-2006, 09:14 PM

scaeagles

03-24-2006, 09:17 PM

The indignity. A man de-remoted. In my house, I OWN the remote. Get some pants. :)

Moonliner

03-25-2006, 10:40 PM

The indignity. A man de-remoted. In my house, I OWN the remote. Get some pants. :)

What?

Ha! I am MAN hear me roar!

(Just not too loud, I don't want to wake the wife or kids) :blush:

wendybeth

03-25-2006, 10:57 PM

In our house, the main tv is run by the Kid. She's the only one who knows which remote goes to what and how to use them.

Prudence

03-25-2006, 11:38 PM

I own the remote.

Because I do.

scaeagles

03-26-2006, 06:56 AM

More great ball. I can not recall so many overtime games in a tourney before. That Texas/LSU game was fun to watch. How do you defend someone who is 6-9, 310 lbs, that oves like he's 210 lbs? That guy is a monster.

Some people probably found the UCLA/Memphis game to be boring, but I love defense. I love that UCLA just smothered them. Of course, I've never been a John Calipari fan (Memphis coach).

By the way, Washington was robbed the other day. UConn should not have won that game. That late missed goal tending call was huge.

scaeagles

03-26-2006, 03:41 PM

History is made today.

I just watched what could be one of the best basketball games I have ever seen. George Mason, an 11 seed, becomes the lowest seed (sharing the record with an LSU team from 1986, I believe) to ever advance to the final four. A monumental congratulations to them. This is a team that Billy Packer specifically said did not deserve to be there.

Another overtime game. Another game decided on the last shot of the game.

This tournament has been, without a doubt, the best I can ever recall watching. Holy freakin' cow.

Should Florida beat Villanova, and they are up by 11 mid first half, it would be the first final four with no 1 seeds (if I have heard correctly).

Matterhorn Fan

03-26-2006, 04:18 PM

I almost hate to post in a sports thread, but the GM/UConn game was good, even if I was rooting for the losers.

I suppose I picked a good one to happen upon by chance, leave in the middle to go buy groceries, and make it home in time to see the ending & OT.

And now I'm all basketballed out for the year. May the game I watch part of next year be as good. :cheers:

Alex

03-26-2006, 04:21 PM

It shows how little I care about college basketball that I didn't even know that UW (my alma mater) was in it until hearing the news of their defeat by UConn the other night.

Just happened to catch the last few minutes of regulation and overtime of the UConn/GM game and it was an exciting finish.

scaeagles

03-26-2006, 05:52 PM

Your alma mater got screwed, Alex. There was an obvious goaltending call on UConn that was missed late in the game. UConn controlled the ball. If I recall, that was very close to the end of regulation. Count that 2 points, and UW probably wins that game.

Alex

03-26-2006, 06:23 PM

Well then, in protest I hereby vow to boycott NCAA basketball in its entirety next season. I will not watch a single game.

Now in addition to "It was a fumble!" (Raiders vs. Patriots) and "Slide Jeremy Giambi! Slide you miserable fvck!" (Athletics vs. Yankess) I will always have "It was goaltending!"

Though my moral authority will be reduced for not having actually seen said uncalled goaltend. (It is so much easier when your outraged boycotts match what you would have done anyway.)

There was a small moment of reflected glory when the radio news guy said "in the matchup between UW and UConn the Huskies advanced to the elite eight." And then I remembered about UConn and realized the radio news guy was trying to be funny. Something they should never strive for.

SacTown Chronic

03-27-2006, 07:12 AM

By the way, Washington was robbed the other day. UConn should not have won that game. That late missed goal tending call was huge.
Yeah, but Washington robbed themselves by being up three with less than five seconds remaining and not fouling UConn. Naturally, UConn hits a three to send it into overtime. If I'm the coach, I'm telling my team to foul in that situation every single time.

"Slide Jeremy Giambi! Slide you miserable fvck!" (Athletics vs. Yankess)

Drives me nuts that Jeter got, and continues to get, so much love from the media for that play when the result clearly was more about Giambi (He's both mentally and physically, uh, slow.) than it was Jeter.

scaeagles

03-27-2006, 07:41 AM

Yeah, but Washington robbed themselves by being up three with less than five seconds remaining and not fouling UConn. Naturally, UConn hits a three to send it into overtime. If I'm the coach, I'm telling my team to foul in that situation every single time.

Agreed. I've done tha tmore than once. I think mst coaches are afraid to make that call though. Really, I do.

One thing that I have noticed about college ball more and more is that certain basic fundamentals are just not done. One thing that was driving me insane was the number of missed boxouts, particularly on free throws. There is no reason not to box someone out when the other team is shooting a free throw. You know exactly where they are. They can't move before the shot goes up. Yet time after time after time the shooting team got the rebound, and not just on clanked ones with long rebounds (which can be excusable).

So....is the coach afraid to look stupid by stopping the clock and allowing a miss to be be put back by the offensive team? I don't know. Maybe. I think it would be better to just teach your guys to do it right (or demand it of them).

scaeagles

03-29-2006, 05:59 PM

I saw something interesting on ESPN.

They run an online bracket pool. There were over 3 million entries.

Four - yes, only four - of those entries had the final four correct.

Drince88

03-29-2006, 08:19 PM

GEAUX Tigers
(Men and Women in the Final 4)

Seimone Augustus took a charge late in the game that nullified a Stanford 3 pointer (by the player she left to take the charge). It was a very well calculated move to make. Hmmm, I wonder why she was player of the year last year! I'm not a big Tiger fan, but it's really hard to avoid in this state, and it was nice to see the end of a well played game.

scaeagles

03-30-2006, 06:55 AM

Chick ball? You dare to bring chick ball into this thread?

Just kidding. I respect very much the way the womens college game is played, as they rely on fundamentalism and teamwork far more than mens, who often just revert to one on one athleticism.

Plus, with a 6th grade daughter who LOVES the game, I am getting used to watching chick ball.

scaeagles

04-01-2006, 09:01 PM

Blah.

I suppose I should have expected a couple of just miserable and unexciting semifinals today after the adrenaline rush that the rest of the tourney has been.

Here's hoping UCLA pulls it out on Monday.