Metrolink crash in Glendale [Archive]

Ghoulish Delight

01-26-2005, 10:40 AM

http://www.nbc4.tv/traffic/4130788/detail.html

9 confirmed dead, 200 injured. But here's what stuck out to me...

Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca said it appears a Jeep Cherokee was deliberately placed on railroad tracks before the derailment. The driver of that vehicle is reportedly still alive, and speaking with authorities. Officials have not released any more information about the driver, or a possible motive.

Deliberately?!? This guy better get charged with murder, if that's the case. Actually, my immediate thought was "terrorism?" I'm not usually one to jump to paranoid conclusions like that, but what a simple and nearly unpreventable way for terrorists to completely disrupt things!

Nephythys

01-26-2005, 10:50 AM

I assume everyone is ok??? I mean, you guys are all ok-

This is horrible- to just be on your way to work and have this happen :(

MerryPrankster

01-26-2005, 10:55 AM

This is really, really terrible! :( My husband was just reading the same story at USA Today. I hate crap like this.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812

01-26-2005, 11:11 AM

Man, I really, really wanted to just think of this as one of those completely freakish accidents where you can't really blame anyone.

BarTopDancer

01-26-2005, 11:31 AM

Actually, my immediate thought was "terrorism?" I'm not usually one to jump to paranoid conclusions like that, but what a simple and nearly unpreventable way for terrorists to completely disrupt things!

If so sounds like the guy got the idea from the 24 premier. :mad: Or the guy is a loon and got the idea from there, or the guy is just sick. He should be charged with murder, and throw in terrorism charges for kicks.

Disneyphile

01-26-2005, 11:37 AM

My first thought was, "Wow - so this guy wanted to commit suicide. Even more of an example at how selfish suicide really is." :mad:

I really hope that those injured recover quickly, and that the deceased find peace and everlasting happiness. It's so tragic. :(

Gemini Cricket

01-26-2005, 11:58 AM

If so sounds like the guy got the idea from the 24 premier. :mad:
I was thinking the same thing. It's weird to think that the guy just stood there and watched the whole thing. Scary.
To think I was just in Glendale just the other day... :(

Nephythys

01-26-2005, 12:03 PM

They revised the death toll to 10 :(

The driver of the car, Juan Manuel Alvarez of Compton, muttered "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" as he was arrested at the scene. He faces 10 counts of murder, Adams said. Alvarez, who has a history of suicide attempts, apparently stood by and watched the train collision after abandoning the attempt to take his life.

Disneyphile

01-26-2005, 01:13 PM

Well, sounds like he got the attention he was looking for (reference: multiple suicide attempts).

Right now, my heart is with those 10 families and the injured.

Gn2Dlnd

01-26-2005, 01:33 PM

I just logged on, hadn't turned on the TV, this is right around the corner from my house, an intersection that I pass 2 or 3 times a day.
How does someone with this guys history of suicide attempts have a driver's license? Or access to car keys, even?
Why did he drive here from Compton? There are so many great ways to get yourself killed in Compton.
People just heading to work. What a selfish asshole.

mamabot

01-26-2005, 01:33 PM

According to the news reports I heard on KNX and KFWB this morning, the mulitple suicide attempts were attempted in roughly a twelve hour time span leading up to the accident. Apparently, he drove his car to an area where cars are not normally driven, parked on the tracks, and his Cherokee was stuck on the tracks.

The story made me sick this morning when I woke up.

Disneyphile

01-26-2005, 01:48 PM

Why the hell couldn't he have just driven off a cliff in an unpopulated area? Or driven off a pier or something? 10 people are dead because of this selfish asshole. :mad:

Not Afraid

01-26-2005, 02:06 PM

I realize that, when you are in such an extreme mental state as to want to try to kill yourself, you don't think objectively about anything else. But, this guy just ended up with tragic results in the extreme! Now, he's a mass murderer as well as a coward. I'd WANT to kill myself at that point - and now he's in custody and can't. I bet he's suffering - and sorry, but good for him. He deserves it.

I hope that there is no more loss as a result of his selfish actions and may the justice system do it's job - insanity plea or not. My heart goes out to the friends and family of those who died or were injured.

BarTopDancer

01-26-2005, 02:14 PM

:Sigh: I finally had time to go read the news. The train that hit the Jeep sideswiped another train coming in the other direction causing both trains to derail and in the process also knocked over a freight car. It also said that the Jeep was "stuck on the tracks".
Why the hell couldn't he have just driven off a cliff in an unpopulated area? Or driven off a pier or something? 10 people are dead because of this selfish asshole.

Or gotten out of his Jeep and just stood infront of the train. Wouldn't have caused any accident when he jumped out of the way.

Motorboat Cruiser

01-26-2005, 02:49 PM

Such a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all that suffered because of this one man's selfish and foolish act.

Ghoulish Delight

01-26-2005, 02:51 PM

On a black humor note...think this will be Jeep's next ad campaign? One jeep derailed 2 trains!

Scrooge McSam

01-26-2005, 02:58 PM

It really is a sad sad situation.

But I've been thinking about this all day. If some form of rail transit is to remain in this country, can't we come up with something that can stop a train in a relatively short distance? I know I'm not an authority on this but I've heard it can take miles to stop a really heavy freight train, probably much less to stop a commuter train.

Whatever we have now it was not enough.

So now we have 10 dead and 200 injured. Will anything change? I suspect not and it breaks my heart.

Does that make me a bleeding heart? Or a soft headed liberal? Or somebody that would really like to solve the problem?

Gn2Dlnd

01-26-2005, 03:00 PM

And GD demonstrates the concept of "too soon."

mamabot

01-26-2005, 03:03 PM

The Los Angeles Times has an excellent article (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-012605crash_lat,0,6086765.story?coll=la-home-headlines) on their web site. The link may require you to register to view the article.

Disneyphile

01-26-2005, 03:04 PM

And GD demonstrates the concept of "too soon."I agree. Hey, GD - can I please use your head as a bongo for a moment? :p

:bonk:

BarTopDancer

01-26-2005, 03:04 PM

And GD demonstrates the concept of "too soon."

Everyones defination of "too soon" is different. Black humor is a coping mechanisam. It may be too soon for you, but not too soon for GD.

Not trying to deminish your feelings or thoughts, just pointing out the other side.

Scrooge McSam

01-26-2005, 03:04 PM

Such a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all that suffered because of this one man's selfish and foolish act.

I can't hate him. If what I've read is true the man is sick; cut his flesh and stab himself sick. I can't excuse what he's done though.

Gn2Dlnd

01-26-2005, 03:14 PM

Everyones defination of "too soon" is different. Black humor is a coping mechanisam. It may be too soon for you, but not too soon for GD.

Not trying to deminish your feelings or thoughts, just pointing out the other side.

I was just teasing GD, I'm a very close friend of the humor that is known as Black.

Motorboat Cruiser

01-26-2005, 03:28 PM

I can't hate him.

Once you are parked on the train tracks, it is pretty clear that one is not thinking things through properly. I can't hate him anymore than I hate the woman who drowned her children in Texas. I don't see malice or intent, just a lack of the ability to cope and act rationally, sometimes with horrific consequences. That is what is so frustrating about mental illness, that there is no rhyme or reason to it and usually by the time it is fully recognized, it is too late.

But, like you, I can't just give the guy a free pass either. Too many innocent people had their lives shattered by his actions. He must not be given the opportunity to endanger anyone else, at least not for a good long time.

Scrooge McSam

01-26-2005, 03:49 PM

I'm sorry that sounded like an accusation. And I realize it did. It was supposed to be a statement of what "I" can't allow myself to do.

I think my problem is I need something/someone to blame. But we don't always get that, do we?

Nephythys

01-26-2005, 03:52 PM

I'm sorry that sounded like an accusation. And I realize it did. I was supposed to be a statement of what "I" can't allow myself to do.

I think my problem is I need something/someone to blame. But we don't always get that, do we?

Being liberal has nothing to do with how you are feeling dear- I relate, and we all know how conservative I am.

Oh, and I DO hate Andrea Yates and will forever- that event haunts me to this day......God can forgive her, I won't.

Scrooge McSam

01-26-2005, 04:06 PM

Oh, and I DO hate Andrea Yates and will forever- that event haunts me to this day......God can forgive her, I won't.

I was sitting in a computer room at Fort Lee, VA when I heard that news and my hate was hotter that white.

But I realize now she was sick (and I'm not making excuses for any of the people who knew her and saw what was going on and did nothing). I happen to believe that somebody could have intervened here. But was Andrea capable on intervening on her own behalf?

And though I don't believe the bible is the proper foundation on which to base our government, I do know and cherish a lot of its teachings.

I can't hate her.

Nephythys

01-26-2005, 04:22 PM

I was sitting in a computer room at Fort Lee, VA when I heard that news and my hate was hotter that white.

I hate to say it, mine still is. I know too many details about what happened in that home that day- the little boy who said I'm sorry mommy, what did I do? as the bitch was drowning him- the way she chased him through the house and dragged him to that tub. May God have mercy on me for hating her- I just can't....can't move past it.

But I realize now she was sick (and I'm not making excuses for any of the people who knew her and saw what was going on and did nothing). I happen to believe that somebody could have intervened here. But was Andrea capable on intervening on her own behalf?

She planned it- she waited til the moment between her husband leaving and her mother coming over. This was a deliberate act- every murder takes some sort of sickness, but this.....defies anything I can imagine. I also hold her husband responsible.

And though I don't believe the bible is the proper foundation on which to base our government, I do know and cherish a lot of its teachings.

I can't hate her.

More power to you- My rage for her, the one who smashed her kids heads in with rocks, and the woman who cut her little girls arms off- they have a special place in hell as far as I am concerned-along with every other mother (or father)who kills their children. I hate two things- bigots and people who hurt children- of all the precious things in the world, we should protect our children.

Maybe I will work through the hate eventually.....

Motorboat Cruiser

01-26-2005, 04:26 PM

Oh, and I DO hate Andrea Yates and will forever- that event haunts me to this day......God can forgive her, I won't.

I can understand how that would haunt you so and can understand the reasons for your hatred. I won't tell you shouldn't hate her. You have that right.

I can't go there though. Perhaps it is my experience witnessing someone very close to me that went through a horrible depression, one that didn't have a happy ending. I've seen how a chemical imbalance can change a person so much so that you don't feel that you know them at all and they have no ability to rationally think things through like you or I might be able to. I remember pleading with this person to just talk to someone on a professional level, knowing that there was help available for them but they refused. In their way of thinking, they hadn't changed, everyone else had.

The system failed Andrea Yates miserably. She slipped through the cracks and even her husband failed to get her the help she needed. There had to be plenty of warning signs there and they should have been acted on. She should have never been left alone with those children, not for a moment.

Gemini Cricket

01-26-2005, 05:47 PM

I just wanted to say that I think it's admirable that SMcS can't find it in himself to hate this guy nor the Yates lady. I can't either. These two people need hospitalization, medication and guarded access to other people.

Disneyphile

01-26-2005, 05:57 PM

From NBC4:One elderly man from the back of the train was covered in blood and soot and appeared to have broken arms and legs. He was one of the last rescued before employees backed off because of leaking diesel.

"The man they took out of the back, he was mangled. I wish I never saw it," Doll said as she watched firefighters continue the rescue.

The elderly man survived for a few minutes after being pulled from the train, but died after thanking his rescuers, said Hugo Moran, a 34-year-old receiving clerk from Van Nuys.

"He was saying he was thankful (to be pulled out) because he didn't want to burn. He was saying, 'Pray for me, pray for me,"' Moran said. "I was telling him stay awake because he was going into shock."

OtherS said they were frustrated they could not do more with limited supplies.

"You can only do so much with small fire extinguishers. We really couldn't crawl in there," said Mark Zavala, a forklift operator. "A lot of people weren't able to get out."

Los Angeles Mayor James Hahn praised the Costco employees for their rescue efforts. After the initial rescue, store employees spent the morning providing survivors with water and clean clothes and cooking pizzas for firefighters. Most other nearby stores and restaurants had not opened.

I found the above to be so heart-breaking, yet heart-warming at the same time. Costco deserves a BIG kudos for this.

Gemini Cricket

01-26-2005, 06:01 PM

I found the above to be so heart-breaking, yet heart-warming at the same time. Costco deserves a BIG kudos for this.
Wow. There's a huge lump in my throat after reading that. Yes, I agree, Costco deserves huge kudos for that. I think I'll write them a letter.
:)

Bornieo: Fully Loaded

01-26-2005, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Disneyphile
I found the above to be so heart-breaking, yet heart-warming at the same time. Costco deserves a BIG kudos for this.

Swanky Soundtrack = Superman - Five for Fighting :snap:

Bornieo: Fully Loaded

01-26-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote stolen from www.newsfromme.com

"I figure: It's your life and if you want to end it, fine. There should be a little service where you can go, pay a couple of bucks and they'll check you out to make sure you're not just upset because the Lakers lost...then, if all is in order, they'll administer some quick, painless lethal injection or stick your toe in a light socket or make you eat tofu or whatever it takes.
This concept might horrify some but wouldn't that be better than forcing someone to park his car on railroad tracks or (as an acquaintance of mine once did), leap off the top of a Manhattan hotel in front of hundreds of traumatized spectators? In this case, it would also spare us wrestling with the morality of the Death Penalty and having a trial, and making survivors come in and testify and then keeping someone locked up forever. This guy who caused the wreck...we don't need to give this guy a trial. We just need to give him a very large bottle of strychnine -- you can probably get them at Costco -- and take him off that Suicide Watch."

Gn2Dlnd

01-27-2005, 01:56 AM

The employees and management of Costco did what (hopefully) any of us would have done in the same situation. San Fernando Road is a fairly desolate industrial area running parallel to the train tracks in this neighborhood. It's an extremely busy road during the day, but not exactly where you'd go to take a walk. The Costco is literally on top of where the accident occurred. Can you imagine being at work, unloading stock at 5:30 in the morning and hearing this happen right outside? These people must have thought a bomb went off.
I drove past the accident site on my way home this evening, I didn't want to go anywhere near the place during the day, but at 10PM I didn't think I'd be in anyone's way.You see the pictures on TV, but the size of the thing doesn't translate. I expect they'll be cleaning this up for several days.
I know that they're already talking about how automatic gates need to be installed at railroad crossings, but that would have done nothing to prevent this. At that time of day, with no traffic, all he had to do was park his jeep and wait for the next train. Gates wouldn't have prevented anything.

Nephythys

01-27-2005, 06:06 AM

That's great of Costco-

Can't respond to anything else without sounding defensive this morning- suffice to say I am glad that no one here was on that train-

Kevy Baby

01-27-2005, 08:06 AM

Ghoulish Delight

01-27-2005, 10:22 AM

Death toll is up to 11

Murder may not be the charge because INTENT to cause harm to OTHERS might be difficult to prove in this case.

And FWIW, according to eyewitness stories coming out, he did try to get the Jeep back off the tracks.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6870372/

He's already been charged with 10 counts, it will be amended to 11.

I would liken it to walking into a crowded room and firing randomly. You may not have intended to kill anyone, but it's still an act that has little chance of NOT killing someone. This isn't like killing someone while DUI. That's manslaughter because, while the odds are worse, the fact is that most of the time people who are DUI DON'T kill someone. It's not a very direct cause and effect. Parking a large vehicle on a train track, however, has a high, almost unavoidable, probability of death as an outcome.

Yes, he tried to get the car off, but it was stuck. But his original intent was to leave it there. Just because he failed to undo what he was trying to do to begin with doesn't relieve him of his culpability. "Yes, I set a trap for him that killed him. But I was on my way back to disarm it, he just go there first," isn't much of a defense.

Gemini Cricket

01-27-2005, 12:29 PM

Man accused in train crash faces murder charges (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/27/train.derailment/index.html)
The charges against Juan Manuel Alvarez, 25, include a special circumstance that would make him eligible for the death penalty...
Is that ironic, or what?

Not Afraid

01-27-2005, 12:49 PM

Aren't there 4 people still missing?

jdramj

01-27-2005, 01:05 PM

An employee in my husband's office was one of the people on the train...no one has heard from her directly, but they understand that she was one of the many who were hospitalized.

It is a very sad situation. I don't know that I can pass judgement on this person. I too understand what mental issues can do to a person and that regardless of the horrific outcome the person is truely just not equipped mentally to think their actions thru and what the consequneces could be.

That being said, I don't think a defense will have much luck here, because his actions in trying to get the SUV off the tracks will show that he had a minimal mental capacity to know at some point in all of this, that what he was doing was wrong.

lizziebith

01-27-2005, 02:29 PM

Or, the guy just wanted to save his Jeep. I doubt he was really thinking clearly.

I'm truly sorry people were injured and killed, but a murder charge seems ridiculous to me! Think back on how many news spots you've seen about train. v. automobile incidents...Usually, the score is Train:1, Car:0. I'm sure the guy had THOSE stats in mind when he considered this form of suicide. It was an anomoly that the Jeep was positioned in such a way as to cause such damage -- investigators have already said as much. Sooo, in my opinion, manslaughter - yes, murder w/ special circumstance - no.

Nephythys

01-27-2005, 06:07 PM

alphabassettgrrl

01-27-2005, 10:04 PM

Damn. I saw a picture of this today. I feel bad for the guy, being suicidal, but really, that doesn't give you the right to take anybody else with you. There are so many ways you can hit the Great Beyond...

It's true that suicidal people hide it- my dad certainly did. Mom and my brother didn't have a clue that anything was wrong until that one morning...

But he didn't take anybody else out, only himself. Didn't even make much noise. Hardly disturbed my mom at all; she just "got a feeling" to check on him...

May the wounded heal quickly. I may renew my Costco membership; it's great that they would help out. Granted, it's a human reaction to want to help, and Costco certainly has the resources, but it's gratifying to see that a corportation might have a heart after all. Once in a while.

Ghoulish Delight

01-27-2005, 10:43 PM

I called my mom today. She's the mom who, whenever she's sees the words "orange" and "county" in the same article, even if it's about orange ice cream at the county fair in Nebraska, calls me to make sure I'm still alive. But today she says, "Remind me how far you are from Jeffrey and the 5." We happen to live one block away from there. She says, "Oh, then did you hear about the copy cat who parked his car on the Metrolink tracks there?" No, I hadn't but that did explain the two news vans I saw parked near the tracks on the way home from work. Of course, this all happened at 4AM, a guy parked, with the intent to commit suicide, but someone saw it and called 911. All of this was cleared by the time I drove past it at 7:30 AM on the way TOO work. Leave it to the TV news to not be there until 12 hours after anything is actually happening.

Of course, if the guy who did it in Glendale is being charged with murder, should this guy be charged with attempted murder?

Motorboat Cruiser

01-28-2005, 05:08 AM

Wow, I hadn't heard about that incident. One of my first thoughts after the Glendale accident was whether there might be copycats, especially considering the amount of coverage that Glendale got.

Tenigma

08-20-2008, 03:03 PM

Man accused in train crash faces murder charges (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/27/train.derailment/index.html)

Is that ironic, or what?

I'm not convinced that was not his plan- he could not successfully kill himself, so he may be glad for someone to do it for him. Similar to suicide by police.

A follow-up in this case... looks like he just got handed his sentence today (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7573577.stm): Life.

Now THAT may be the most ironic of all.

Morrigoon

08-20-2008, 03:19 PM

Actually, yeah. That's pretty darn ironic. I hope he gets to spend several months of it in a paper gown.

cirquelover

08-20-2008, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the update. I find it interesting that the article you posted was from the BBC.

Kevy Baby

08-20-2008, 05:42 PM

A follow-up in this case... looks like he just got handed his sentence today (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7573577.stm): Life.11 consecutive life sentences. When he dies, they bring him back to life and move on to the next life sentence.

LashStoat

08-20-2008, 07:11 PM

That being said, I don't think a defense will have much luck here, because his actions in trying to get the SUV off the tracks will show that he had a minimal mental capacity to know at some point in all of this, that what he was doing was wrong.

Dear All,

This thread has really choked me up...we've had similar accidents here in Oz - the most disasterous being the collapse of a concrete bridge onto a peak hour commuter train in Granville. Folks place 100's of roses on the tracks each year in memory.

I agree with JDRamJ in respect that the guy in your case knew to (try to) take the vehicle off the tracks*...which strongly suggests a degree of mental capacity, and will most likely be charged accordingly. A fat lot of good that'll do the families - but at least he won't be able to hurt anyone else.

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

*GD - with reference to Jeep using the incident to promote vehicle sales: What sort of RV can't navigate its way off a simple railway line? Did it have four flat tyres, a busted axle and a stripped gearbox??? Or did the dude panic and try to move it whilst in neutral...