Music download services

[Ghoulish Delight]

Okay, so there's iTunes. Hooray iTunes. But I've become enamored with the Napster/AOL Music Now model. Namely, $15 monthly fee = unlimited downloads that remain yours to put on your MP3 player for as long as you're a member. With the option of then paying 99 cents if you want it permanently or want to burn a cd.

Only problem is...they don't work with iPod. :(

I found another service, emusic.com, which gives you completely unrestricted mp3 files that can be used on iPod, burned as many times as you want, etc. Really great, but because of such a permissive deal, they are mostly about indie music and such. Which is indeed cool, and if in a quick browse, it seems that they have the majority of the music that I've purchased in the past year, so it might be a perfect fit. But just in case it isn't, anyone know of any other good download services that are iPod compatible?

[Not Afraid]

I just buy the music and rip it to my storage drive. I find that this is much better for me and keeps me in control of my music. I won't be buying music from iTunes any longer because, if you switch drives or devices, you have issues playing the music you've already purchased. There's probably a work around, but I am tired of iTunes making my life difficult.

[Ghoulish Delight]

That's one reason why I kinda want to avoid itunes.

What's great about Napster & Music nOw is that you can listen to the music without buying it. No guess work, not commitment.

[Gemini Cricket]

Me likes to own what I listens to. That's my problem. I try to back up what I buy on CD. I also have a back up of everything on an external hard drive. I just updated my back up this weekend.

[Not Afraid]

Yeah, we're working our way through ripping all 1000+ cds. I like actually owning music too in some hard-copy form.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Me likes to own what I listens to. That's my problem. I try to back up what I buy on CD. I also have a back up of everything on an external hard drive. I just updated my back up this weekend.I do like the emusic option for that reason. I just need to be sure the selection is good enough.

My sister's got a great system with Music Now. She's got the $10 subscription, which allows you to listen on your computer, but not on a player. She'll listen to an album on her computer...and then if she finds herself in the car wishing she were listening to it, she buys it (from elsewhere since she's got an iPod). I'd do that...but I don't listen to music when I'm home for the most part, so feh. That's why iPod compatibility is important. If I'm going to do a try-before-I-buy thing, it's gotta be able to go with me.

[Gemini Cricket]

Yeah, we're working our way through ripping all 1000+ cds. I like actually owning music too in some hard-copy form.
Do you put all of the songs on a CD into your iTunes library? I started to do that when I first got iTunes and then I thought, 'I'll never listen to some of these songs...'
My good friend Lee does that and she has 1000+ CDs. She has no room on her computer for anything else...
:)

[FEJ]

I found another service, emusic.com, which gives you completely unrestricted mp3 files that can be used on iPod, burned as many times as you want, etc. Really great, but because of such a permissive deal, they are mostly about indie music and such. Which is indeed cool, and if in a quick browse, it seems that they have the majority of the music that I've purchased in the past year, so it might be a perfect fit. But just in case it isn't, anyone know of any other good download services that are iPod compatible?
I have been using eMusic for about 6 months now and I love it. Yes, it is more indie and obscure music, but I like that. I also like the pure MP3 format that is transferable everywhere. I have found some great old albums and compilations there, as well as remixes and tribute albums.

....if you switch drives or devices, you have issues playing the music you've already purchased. There's probably a work around, but I am tired of iTunes making my life difficult.

I have not encountered any problems besides authorizing the computer to play the purchased music. You can have up to 5 computers authorized to play your songs. If you have multiple iTunes accounts (i,e, you and Euro have separate iTunes accounts) then there might be an issue. I move my music between devices and drives all the time with no problem.

[Not Afraid]

Do you put all of the songs on a CD into your iTunes library? I started to do that when I first got iTunes and then I thought, 'I'll never listen to some of these songs...'
My good friend Lee does that and she has 1000+ CDs. She has no room on her computer for anything else...
:)

Yes, everything goes. We just bought a 300 gig storage drive for music and other media. We've got about 100 gigs of music on there so far. There's a lot more to add. The world, jazz and classical haven't been added yet.

[Gemini Cricket]

Yes, everything goes.
:eek: Wow.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I have been using eMusic for about 6 months now and I love it. Yes, it is more indie and obscure music, but I like that. I also like the pure MP3 format that is transferable everywhere. I have found some great old albums and compilations there, as well as remixes and tribute albums. Cool, good to hear. It's rare that I'm looking to purchase mainstream anyway, so I have a feeling I'll like eMusic. Do you find yourself hitting the monthly download limits often?

[FEJ]

Cool, good to hear. It's rare that I'm looking to purchase mainstream anyway, so I have a feeling I'll like eMusic. Do you find yourself hitting the monthly download limits often?


Sometimes. Then I just add more songs or put it in my "Save for later" file. Some months I come across a bunch of "Must Have Now" selections. :D

[€uroMeinke]

I go the used CD route - that way I keep cash flowing to my local economy and legally away from the greedy artists labels and distributers.

[Snowflake]

Like E & NA & GC, I like to own my music. So I go with CDs from the collection and buy used CDs (or in many cases, new CDs listed as used at amazon for incredibly low prices) For nostalgia's sake I bought a cople of old albums on iTunes, but it was a novelty that did not appeal. I still like reading liner notes no matter how microscopic they can be.

The only exception was some e-books I've downloaded from audible.com, much easier to deal with in 1 or 2 downloaded files from them rather than loading 4-5 or more CDs on my own.

[Gemini Cricket]

June 19, 2006 -- First it was music a la carte. Then it was TV shows on demand. Now there are reports Apple is in negotiations to offer downloads of full-length movies on iTunes.

A report in the trade newspaper Variety today says Apple is in negotiations with "most" major motion picture studios to iron out the details and bring the inevitable to fruition.

Source (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Business/story?id=2093685&page=1)
I thought I'd post this here since we were talking about iTunes etc.
If they do this, I'll be totally happy.
I'd love to download my DVDs to the computer and not worry about scratching them. I'd also buy a player for it if I could hook it up to my TV and watch stuff.
:)

[Matterhorn Fan]

I dunno...

It takes too long to download a song. I can't imagine how long it would take ot download a movie....and then iTunes wouldn't let you burn it to a DVD, so what's the point?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm still undecided about eMusic. They do seem to have a lot of the offbeat artists that I've been listening to/purchasing...but they often don't have their full catalogs. I think I'd quickly get frustrated that what I'm looking for isn't there.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

How could such huge download companies not cater to the iPod? I'm mystified.

[mousepod]

How could such huge download companies not cater to the iPod? I'm mystified.

It's all about the DRM, baby.

[Gemini Cricket]

DRM...?

[€uroMeinke]

Digital Rights Management

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, the WMA format allows for far more customizeable control over how the files are licensed. It's what allows them to have the files expire if you cancel the service, etc.

A better question is becoming, why doesn't Apple just enable WMA support on iPods (I've read that their processors do have the codec). But, as has been Apple's downfall in the past, they're choosing proprietary exclusivity over open shareability. The theory being that if they convince everyone they're player is the gold standard, then they have no reason to play nice.

[BarTopDancer]

What about converting the wma to mp3 format? There used to be a bunch of programs out there that did that.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What about converting the wma to mp3 format? There used to be a bunch of programs out there that did that.
Sort of. The DRM protection prevents direct file conversion. There are only two ways to manage the conversion of a DRM protected file. Either purchase the file with CD burning privelages, burn a CD, and then rip the CD as an MP3. Massively time consuming, and defeats the purpose of the "try before you buy" service of Napster/Music Now. Or, there is software out there that simply records the audio into MP3 format as the file plays on your computer. Not AS time consuming, but still slow, it requires either double the storage space or continual management of storage space, and I suspect there are sound quality issues.

Neither of those options seem quite like they preserve the convenience I'm looking for.

[BarTopDancer]

:( I haven't done conversion since before the DRM got really strict.

[mousepod]

My problem isn't with Apple and their exclusion of WMA (non-iPod devices won't play protected AAC files, either). It's the whole concept of DRM vs fair use issue. (see here (http://www.eff.org/) for lots and lots of good arguments)

At the risk of derailing yet another thread (sorry, CP), I propose a new thread on intellectual property.

[Stan4dSteph]

I'm a sheep. I just use iTunes. I don't understand what everyone else is talking about here. The acronyms mean nothing to me.

[Brigitte]

So glad I'm not the only one, iMac, iTunes, iPod, all work smoothly together. Works for me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

iTunes works, and no matter what else I choose, I'm sure I'll continue to use iTunes. But I just found the Napster/Music Now model appealing. Essentially, a single monthly fee gets you as much muic as you want/can download. And at $15/month, all you have to do is download 2 albums and you're ahead of the game.

[Brigitte]

I tend not to download whole albums though, I'm really a picker and chooser. I don't download 15 songs in a month to make it worth a service like that. Unless DH wants an audiobook, then we go over $15.

[Disneyphile]

*coughLimeWirecough*

;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

*coughLimeWirecough*

;)
Eh, I'm done with file sharing. Not for legal issues, but because I find them more trouble than they're worth. Slow connections, partial albums, corrupted files, bad sound quality all add up to more time wasted than money saved.

[Prudence]

I'm a collector so I end up buying CDs. When I get around to buying CDs.

[DisneyFan25863]

Something I'm surprised no one has brought up is JHymn (http://www.hymn-project.org/jhymndoc/). Its a free program that strips iTunes files of their DRM without any loss in quality or tag information (as you get when you burn to a CD or record it through your audio card). I did it to our entire purchased music library (about 200 songs out of a total of 6000) so that we could listen to our iTunes music off of our TiVo. It works great.

[blueerica]

I'm only just now opening this thread (apparently)... Because had I opened it earlier, I would have written what I'm about to write to you now.

http://www.allofmp3.com

Yes, it's a Russian site. Far, far, far less expensive than anywhere else I've seen... no spyware that I've been able to catch... and, well, you can download your music in a variety of formats. The range is from mainstream to "pretty eclectic". I might have to check out eMusic to find some of the less mainstream stuff I can't seem to dig up there.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Something I'm surprised no one has brought up is JHymn (http://www.hymn-project.org/jhymndoc/). Its a free program that strips iTunes files of their DRM without any loss in quality or tag information (as you get when you burn to a CD or record it through your audio card). I did it to our entire purchased music library (about 200 songs out of a total of 6000) so that we could listen to our iTunes music off of our TiVo. It works great.Hmm...does it work on any file with DRM, or only iTunes files? 'cause unprotecting iTunes files doesn't do us a whole lot of good, unless we're planning on giving music to other people. We've got iPods. But unprotecting files from Napster or Music Now would be nice.

[FEJ]

*coughLimeWirecough*

;)


Limewire is a poorly written Java application which will ruin your file structure on ones hard drive, possible causing loss of all ones data. not to mention possibly corrupting the file system of ones portable music player.

Along those same lines, Jhymn could corrupt the file also. Anytime you strip data off one runs that risk.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Along those same lines, Jhymn could corrupt the file also. Anytime you strip data off one runs that risk.Which is what a responsible backup policy is for.

Still curious if there's anything that'll strip the protection from Napster et. al.

[DisneyFan25863]

Which is what a responsible backup policy is for.

Still curious if there's anything that'll strip the protection from Napster et. al.


It looks like you can use Virtuosa (http://www.virtuosa.com/) for that. From their forums:
If you are licensed to play the song, you should be able to convert it to WMA (without the DRM), MP3, or whatever. Use the convert feature in Virtuosa.



ubergeek, The nice thing about JHymn is that it makes a backup of the file it is converting before it does anything to it so that if the file does become corrupted, you can just revert to the backup.


AllOfMP3.com is just as illegal as using Limewire. None of the profits they make go to the record company. The nice thing about it though is that it allows you to download the file in like 40 different formats, and they charge you per MB rather than per song.

[FEJ]

AllOfMP3.com is just as illegal as using Limewire. None of the profits they make go to the record company. The nice thing about it though is that it allows you to download the file in like 40 different formats, and they charge you per MB rather than per song.


So, in other words, it is still stealing.

[€uroMeinke]

Buying used CDs is still the only legal way not to pay the artisits and record companies

[FEJ]

Buying used CDs is still the only legal way not to pay the artisits and record companies


True, but some Used CD dealers are paying artists out of their own goodness.

MTV Article (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1533935/20060608/index.jhtml?headlines=true)

LaLa.com (http://www.lala.com/)

[Not Afraid]

True, but some Used CD dealers are paying artists out of their own goodness.

MTV Article (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1533935/20060608/index.jhtml?headlines=true)

LaLa.com (http://www.lala.com/)

But, most are not - and none of the re-sellers I frequent (or have ever frequented) have ever payed royalties on used music. However, in the long run, it usually does an artist good have their music listened to. Better than sitting on a shelf all lonely with no one listening to them.

[FEJ]

But, most are not - and none of the re-sellers I frequent (or have ever frequented) have ever payed royalties on used music. However, in the long run, it usually does an artist good have their music listened to. Better than sitting on a shelf all lonely with no one listening to them.
True. But most of them are paying their BMI and ASCAP dues to play the music in the store, so at least the artists are getting something out of the stores.

[€uroMeinke]

True. But most of them are paying their BMI and ASCAP dues to play the music in the store, so at least the artists are getting something out of the stores.

Of course, if you have an eclectic collection BMI and ASCAP still leave a lot of artists uncompensated.

Hmmm someday soon I will start that intellectual property thread...

[FEJ]

Of course, if you have an eclectic collection BMI and ASCAP still leave a lot of artists uncompensated.

Hmmm someday soon I will start that intellectual property thread...


Then that is in the artists hands. Most musicians who publish their music know to become a member of one or the other if they expect to get paid. Even the most obscure artists have some sort of publishing contract when they get to the point of selling records.

[€uroMeinke]

Then that is in the artists hands. Most musicians who publish their music know to become a member of one or the other if they expect to get paid. Even the most obscure artists have some sort of publishing contract when they get to the point of selling records.

Cool, then I shouldn't have any qualms about getting this stuff through less ethical means since not belonging to the biggest unions is tacit permission to steal their works.

[Ghoulish Delight]

As far as I see it, what I'd like to do is not illegal.

Well, what I'd LIKE to do is find a service that either has the business model of Napster, but with iPod files, which doesn't exist, or one like eMusic with a more complete selection. Also doesn't exist.

But barring that, all I'd like is to do is get music that I purchase legally into a form that is useable to me. Just as it's never been illegal to create copies of casettes or CDs for personal use, or to record a television show to watch later (see Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios). Of course, the same process can be used towards illegal purposes (namely distributing music to other people, either for free or for charge), but that certainly is not my intention.

Thanks for the virtuosa tip, I'll check it out.

[FEJ]

Cool, then I shouldn't have any qualms about getting this stuff through less ethical means since not belonging to the biggest unions is tacit permission to steal their works.

Ethics is relative. If you don't find it unethical, then your right, you shouldn't have any qualms. If you do find it unethical, and still do it, then there is something amiss. IMO.

Ethical and Illegal are also 2 different terms.
While making a copy for personal use is legal, making a copy and distributing it is illegal, as GD said. I do understand wanting to use Jhymn to listen to the music on the Tivo, and that still falls under "copy for personal use" IMO. You can get the same by burning an Audio CD, which you are allowed to do under the TOS.

Don't get me wrong, I have music that I didn't pay the artist for. I never said I was a saint. It just seemed to me that Disneyfan25863's statement was a little sugercoated.


AllOfMP3.com is just as illegal as using Limewire. None of the profits they make go to the record company. The nice thing about it though is that it allows you to download the file in like 40 different formats, and they charge you per MB rather than per song.

He even said it was illegal, but it was "nice." Why not say it like it is:

paraphrasing DisneyFan25863
AllPfMP3.com is a better way to steal music. There are more options for download than Limewire, and although not free, you get charged for MB not per song.

We could have the same arguments (and have) about the semantics of "Illegal." Just as with speeding in your car or crossing on a red light, whether or not "everyone is doing it" doesn't make it less illegal. No, I don't agree with every law out there, but the laws are there for the "common good." Nor should we be blind sheep and run to "Carrousel" the minute the jewel starts to blink.

Don't think that I was getting all high and mighty either. That would make me a complete hypocrite. I just don't think that "everyone does it" is a good argument. (Not that anyone specifically stated that, but I know it is a justification that I fight with myself and since it popped into my head, felt it was worth bringing into the discussion.)
I have done all of the things discussed here, and sometimes still do, but I do feel someone had to play "Devil's Advocate" (or in this case, "Angel's Advocate" :p ) for the sake of discussion.
I really do like hearing how things like this affect others, or is it just me who has these internal dialogs about "Right and Wrong."

I can't wait for €'s "Intellectual Property" thread. :D

[Not Afraid]

Hey, Uber.....do you still have that Dead Can Dance cd you borowwed to copy? ;)

[FEJ]

Hey, Uber.....do you still have that Dead Can Dance cd you borowwed to copy? ;)
Yes, I do. Like I said, I ain't no saint. (Plus the fact I bought the Vinyl already) :p

[Stan4dSteph]

Good to know that I should uninstall Limewire.

Anyone have an opinon on what the best filesharing software is for Macs?

[BarTopDancer]

Why not get something like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102970&cp=2032058.2032228.2032251&parentPage=family) and plug it into your stereo and iPod. They make them with a usb end to be plugged into the TiVo and iPod.

I have the first and run my iPod or computer through my stereo.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Why not get something like this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102970&cp=2032058.2032228.2032251&parentPage=family) and plug it into your stereo and iPod. They make them with a usb end to be plugged into the TiVo and iPod.

I have the first and run my iPod or computer through my stereo.
Yes, that's what I have for my car. But that doesn't get the files onto the iPod, that's just attaching speakers to the iPod. Without a program like virtuosa, tracks that you download from Napster cannot be copied onto an iPod, only other branded MP3 players that support the correct file format.

[BarTopDancer]

Yes, that's what I have for my car. But that doesn't get the files onto the iPod, that's just attaching speakers to the iPod. Without a program like virtuosa, tracks that you download from Napster cannot be copied onto an iPod, only other branded MP3 players that support the correct file format.

Oh der. I blanked on the original intent of the post. I'm sorry.

[DisneyFan25863]

Don't get me wrong, I have music that I didn't pay the artist for. I never said I was a saint. It just seemed to me that Disneyfan25863's statement was a little sugercoated.

He even said it was illegal, but it was "nice."


I didn't mean to sugercoat my statement. I was just pointing out one of the features of AllOfMP3 that I really like, and that I wish other services would implement. I like to encode my music at 192 kbps MP3's, which none of the current US stores provide.

[FEJ]

I didn't mean to sugercoat my statement. I was just pointing out one of the features of AllOfMP3 that I really like, and that I wish other services would implement. I like to encode my music at 192 kbps MP3's, which none of the current US stores provide.


It may just be how I read it also. Stranger things have happened :D

[blueerica]

I suppose I should point out that I didn't state allofmp3's legallity or illegality because it was not a point I was contending. The point I am contending is that I haven't had any issues with the downloads I've gotten from them. :)

That is all.