Ulrich Kicked out of Tour

[Ghoulish Delight]

Jan Ulrich was among dozens named in the latest doping scandal. As a matter of fact, the 2, 3, and 4th palce finishers from last year are all gonners. The teams are not being allowed to field replacements for any of the riders, so the competition field will shrink.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13559903/

[Alex]

Yay! How many people have to get kicked out before they just cancel the event and I can skip of a year of listening to poseur acquaintances who pretend to give a flip about cycling once a year? (I'm not saying none of the really do care, just enough of them to be really annoying.)

One thing I don't understand is why blood transfusions aren't allowed. So long as the added blood doesn't contain drugs it seems to me that it is equally accessible and physically safe. Do they ban Breath-Rite Nose Strips (or whatever they are called)?

[Ghoulish Delight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

[Stan4dSteph]

Wow. That certainly opens the field up! That photo of Jan in the article makes it seem that he's dropped a lot of weight.

Count me among the poseurs who will be watching.

[Alex]

I understand barring EPO, but not simple transfusions. That article lists as the negative of transfusions:

Both types of transfusion can be dangerous because of the risk of infection and the potential toxicity of improperly stored blood. Homologous transfusions present the additional risks of communication of infectious diseases and the possibility of a transfusion reaction. From a logistical standpoint, either type of transfusion requires the athlete to surreptitiously transport frozen RBCs, thaw and re-infuse them in a non-clinical setting and then dispose of the medical paraphernalia.

This is only true because it is banned. If it weren't banned there'd really be no risk of infection and toxicity because they wouldn't have to try and hide it. There is the same risk with improperly stored salmon but they're still allowed to eat that if they want.

[Ghoulish Delight]

But beyond EPO, simple blood transfusions are used to artificially increase red blood cell count, sans banned chemicals. So it's still a performance enhancer.

[Alex]

Yes, but so is exercising a lot. If it is equally accessible and not particularly harmful I don't see why it should be prohibited. I just think the scope of what is considered doping is overly broad and obviously not particularly effective if half your top athletes are in violation.

If popping a benedryl before a race gives you more endurance then go for it. I'm surprised they don't make them sit down to identical meals before every stage. And induce comas so that everybody gets identical sleep.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I tend to agree, just pointing out their reasoning.

[Alex]

Yeah, I understand their reasoning and I'm sure if asked they'd come up with better reasons than does the Wikipedia article. I just found it amusing that the only physical negatives they listed for blood transfusions are a byproduct of the banning. It makes me think of someone arguing that abortion should be illegal because the risk of infection from a back-alley abortion is too high.

[Stan4dSteph]

I found an interesting journal article that I'm reading now.

http://www.dsmb.univr.it/documenti//ArticoloRivista/allegato/allegato942926.pdf

"A large infusion of RBCs may be associated with hyperviscosity syndrome, which is characterized by increased blood viscosity and decreased cardiac output and blood flow velocity and results in reduction of peripheral oxygen delivery. Additional complications may be phlebitis, septicemia, bacterial infection, and air/clot embolism. 24"

[Alex]

There, that's a better reason (though I don't know if I find it compelling; I, personally, have no problem with artificial enhancement except in that it is against the rules) though all of those "additional complications" are results of improperly performing the procedure and not directly of the procedure.


I also wasn't aware that blood transfusions caused Jack Bauer. I should have watched more than one episode.

[Not Afraid]

Hello, my name is Lisa and I'm a Tour de France posseur.

This is the ONE spoprting event I watch and I've been watching it for over 20 years. This IS a big deal. Ulrich had a good chance of winning this year and Basso was one of the ones to watch. I need to take a look at all of the names withdrawn to see who else is on there.

It should make for an exciting, wide-open tour this year.

[Stan4dSteph]

I'm hoping that we get good showings out of Levi Leipheimer and George Hincapie.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Forgot to mention, no Americans were implicated in this.

[scaeagles]

All the American dopers play baseball.

[Kevy Baby]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about Lars Ulrich being kicked out of the latest Metallica Tour http://metaltabs.com/forum/images/smilies/banger.gif

[wendybeth]

Me too, KB!:D

[Ghoulish Delight]

What, no love for poor Skeet?

[Kevy Baby]

Isn't he the guy who likes to shoot?

[Alex]

I was in the Lars Ulrich school of thought (though I'm amazed I even pulled his name out of the aether). I considered Skeet Ulrich, but what tour would he be kicked off of?

You could have also considered Duke Ulrich of Württemberg (yay for using my history degree) but since he has been dead many centuries he is unlikely to make news.

[wendybeth]

You know, I don't think I've ever listened to a Metallica song- not voluntarily, anyway, so I've no idea how I knew the Lars Ulrich name. Years of working in a salon and reading 'People' have finally paid off, I suppose.....:rolleyes:

Anyone know if Locklear is really doing it with Spade?

[Alex]

It's a shudder-worthy thought but at least I can safely assume that they are genetically divergent enough that reproduction is impossible.

[Not Afraid]

HEY! Start your own Metalica thread, damit!

[Kevy Baby]

Why? There is this thread ripe for the hijackin'!

[Gemini Cricket]

Me too, KB!:D
Me three. :D

[wendybeth]

HEY! Start your own Metalica thread, damit!

I thought we were talking about Heather now.

[Stan4dSteph]

Did anyone else catch yesterday's stage? Thor Hushovd's arm got sliced by one of those plastic hand-clapper things. He was bleeding all over the place! I'm surprised he's back today. Hopefully he will be able to finish the Tour.

And hooray for Hincapie! :snap:

[€uroMeinke]

Haven't seen todays leg, but I saw yesterdays - Yeah that was a big WTF moment - here's this guy in the yellow jersey with blood all over him, I swear even in the replay you couldn't tell what was going on. I wonder if we'll see less of those hand signs in future stages.

Oh and Hooray for Hincapie - it's nice to see an American is still in the ruinning of this very wide-open Tour.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Did anyone else catch yesterday's stage? Thor Hushovd's arm got sliced by one of those plastic hand-clapper things. He was bleeding all over the place! I'm surprised he's back today. Hopefully he will be able to finish the Tour.It was actually cardboard. Pretty gorey. Still managed to finish 9th in the stage, though.

[Not Afraid]

GIANT paper cut!

YAY for George - although I was only able to watch a bit of the tour before the TIVO switched over to some obnoxious show. Ah, the joys of pet sitting.

[Alex]

I want to clarify the poseurs comment. I don't find annoying people who only watch cycling once a year for the Tour. I don't understand how watching cycling on TV can possibly be interesting but then a lot of people don't understand how I can enjoy watching golf on TV.

I'm more talking about the people who only cared because Lance Armstrong was winning and so this year they don't care. To me that isn't enjoying a sport that is enjoying celebrity and it will just annoy me those people pretending that they care about the sport.

[Stan4dSteph]

I have to admit I didn't understand much about cycling. However, my brother-in-law was quite into competitive road cycling himself for a while, competing and so on. He helped me understand the whole strategy that doesn't seem to make sense to a lot of people.

I feel the same way about golf and baseball. I don't understand how those are any less boring to an average viewer. I enjoy the commentary - the unique turns of phrase that come out of Phil Liggett, Sherwin and Bob Roll.

I still watch because I find it amazing that people can compete in such an event as the Tour.

[scaeagles]

I'm not a cycling fan, but I respect any remarkable athlete. So following Lance Armstrong and his effort to win a 7th straight last year wasn't because I'm a fan of the sport, but I was amazed at his achievements. It had nothnig to do with enjoying celebrity, it had to do with respecting remarkable accomplishments.

Prior to that, I didn't care about it. I don't care about it now.

[€uroMeinke]

I think I was drawn to the sport by the pagentry - I mean, 3 week bicycle race through the geography of France. There's something so chic about the final legs through the Champs where the riders toast each other with Champagne.

I still love that, but having watched for - goodness how long has it been since Laurent Fignon lost to Greg LeMond? - 1989? I've come to enjoy the strategy involved and understand how very much this is a team sport. I love seeing how the Peloton works, and the team time trials.

Also, I'm excited this year becasue Lance isn't racing - honestly the past two years with Lance where like the last two years of Miguel Indurain, they were just way better than any of their competitors, and once they cleared the alps, the race became rather dull as the conclusion was almost certain.

[Kevy Baby]

...Laurent Fignon...Is it just me, or does this sound like a character in a Disney movie?

[NickO'Time]

Wow, I am amazed at how these guys continue to do this. I "had" raced for over 15 years. There was always some doubt when a rider "all the sudden"came up out of nowhere.

Basso was my pick for the winner, with Ullrich a close second.
Now the beauty of this is that it is a wide open race and anyone could win. There are lurkers in there, my picks for now are going to be Landis, Cadel Evans,Paolo Savaodelli, Possibly Liephiemer. But there are so many different variables like crashes, unforseen sickness, and more. They already lost World cup(Series of select BIKE races) leader Alessandro Valverde, from Illes Belears(Spanish). He won two classics that had some of the steepest climbs of that race. He was my alternate choice until the crash. Ullrich should be gone, so should Basso. A stronger message needs to be sent out. Lifetime ban.
The reason why I say this is because I know what it takes and it is not an easy sport. I have shed the blood sweat and tears for teams and for myself, nothing disgusts me more that these guys did this.

[NickO'Time]

I think I was drawn to the sport by the pagentry - I mean, 3 week bicycle race through the geography of France. There's something so chic about the final legs through the Champs where the riders toast each other with Champagne.

I still love that, but having watched for - goodness how long has it been since Laurent Fignon lost to Greg LeMond? - 1989? I've come to enjoy the strategy involved and understand how very much this is a team sport. I love seeing how the Peloton works, and the team time trials.

Also, I'm excited this year becasue Lance isn't racing - honestly the past two years with Lance where like the last two years of Miguel Indurain, they were just way better than any of their competitors, and once they cleared the alps, the race became rather dull as the conclusion was almost certain.
1989 is correct:)

[NickO'Time]

I want to clarify the poseurs comment. I don't find annoying people who only watch cycling once a year for the Tour. I don't understand how watching cycling on TV can possibly be interesting but then a lot of people don't understand how I can enjoy watching golf on TV.

I'm more talking about the people who only cared because Lance Armstrong was winning and so this year they don't care. To me that isn't enjoying a sport that is enjoying celebrity and it will just annoy me those people pretending that they care about the sport.
It's only when an American is winning. No one cares other wise, you are so dead on. Cycling on TV is boring for some, but to someone who actually has experienced it, they are glued to the TV like any other. Unless the race is a closed short course criterium,Road races can be boring. 11 seconds later the field is gone, whereas say a race like Redlands criterium is a great spectator sport, because you can actually see the attacks.

It's the Lance effect, in the late 80's early 90's it was the Lemond effect. Everyone wants to buy a Trek bike because he won on it. Back in the early 90'sthe Lemond EFFECT it was the Aero Scott Triathlon bar and Bottechia road bikes because Lemond won on it, then he had a company called CarbonFrames out of Alameda with a man named Craig CALFEE. Which is now it's own after a falling out with Lemond's parents. Whoever wins the Tour people think they have to buy that bike, because they think that bike won the Tour not the "motor". People are funny sometimes. ;)

[Not Afraid]

I have found, so far (three stages into it) that not having a "big name" cycalist out there makes for a more exciting race. However, I suspect I watch the Tour for entirely different reasons than others do. I actually got bored with Lance, as I did with Indurain. The team aspect of the race became a lot more interesting to me at those times.

I don't really have a favorite - except I have a love for George Hincappe and I think it would be nice to see Lance's right leg man do well. But, it's a toss up, and if these crashes continue, we may have either an incredibly exciting race or a really dull one.

Kessler's win yesterday was a sweet moment after he missed it by that much in Stage 2. And, the crashes yesterday were so awful!

Oops, I had to look up Kessler's name and learned about today's disqualification. Damn. Mum's the word until 11:00 pm.

[NickO'Time]

Robbie McEwen sure smoked them yesterday. Thanks to some great work by his teammates. T-MOBILE suspended another rider today. Also Levi Leipheimer is kind of under the scope. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul06news4
Dr. Michele Ferrari was Lance's Doctor for a while.

It's interesting to watch the LoTTo Team go after the sprint points and bonus time, just to keep it from thre other riders like Boonen. This years Oln Coverage is so much better, because they are covring the breaks as best they can.

[Not Afraid]

I thought Husvold was disqualified yesterday? I saw a new flash I didn't want to see before I viewed the Tour and thought that was the oucome. Apparently, I was wrong.

I am looking at today's stage results since I won't be watching it tonight. Very interesting!

I'm very disoriented because they are going the "wrong way" around Europe. We will get the Pyranees first.

[NickO'Time]

Luz Ardiden should zap some of the riders for sure. Still in it. I've been watching the coverage on OLN, this year is so much better, because they are trying to cover the breaks. Egoi Martinez just went down, but he is up and the medical car is taking care of him rolling along.

[Stan4dSteph]

I think Hushovd just lost his sprint points for the stage due to some pushing or somesuch during the sprint finish. It's similar to what happened to McEwen last year. Basically it greatly reduces his chances at the green jersey.

[Stan4dSteph]

Individual time trial today!

Bobby Julich crashed out hard today, and he's gone from the Tour.:(

[NickO'Time]

Ok after seeing today's results for the Time trial, I wouldnt be suprised if it was Andres Kloden wasn't in there for the overall or podium finish, I just cant believe that Gontchar can win the tour, he isn't that great a climber. I say Landis, Kloden, Hincapie. Liephiemer lost over 6 minutes.

Surprising results today. This race is what separates the men from the boys. The "race of truth" has spoken.:cheers:

[Stan4dSteph]

We'll see. I think Hincapie can still do well, and we also have another time trial later in the race. It was disappointing to see the Discovery boys lose as much time as they did, but I'm still cheering for them. :)

Landis did very well considering his mechanical troubles.

[NickO'Time]

Hincapie for Top 10 for sure, Geez Leipheimer what happened?

I still think it will be Paolo Salvodelli top 3, or Kloden, there has to be a hidden rider on one of these teams. Landis barring any problems will for sure make Top 3.

[Not Afraid]

ARGH! Couldn't watch today and won't be able to watch tomorrow either. I need to take a month off for th Tour. ;)

[NickO'Time]

Rest day today. Even though for some of the teams will still ride, just not at the horrendous pace they do everyday in the Tour. :cool:

[Not Afraid]

So, I have the time to watch it again and they are resting. Not FAIR!

[NickO'Time]

And the new leader of the TOUR IS:

FLOYD LANDIS, yES another American is in the lead!!! Yeah!!!!!!

[Not Afraid]

Damn, I clicked on your link. I thought you were talking about last night's win. (I don't watch until 9 pm). Last night was a kooky stage. 9+ minutes? WTF? I admire Kessler for keeping T-Mobile in the front for so long but, they didn't do anything.

The Discovery Team leader (name?) comment after the sage about the "French guy, who is in yellow, whats his name?" was interesting.

All I can say after reding the spoiler is - GO!

[Stan4dSteph]

The Discovery Team leader (name?) comment after the sage about the "French guy, who is in yellow, whats his name?" was interesting.The manager of DSC is Johan Bruyneel.

[Not Afraid]

That's him.

[Stan4dSteph]

Warning: Stage 12 result!
Hooray for Popo! :D I'm glad Discovery could get something positive after yesterday's disaster. Poor Paolo apparently got hit in the head by a spectator yesterday, which required stitches. He had to abandon today. Novall also is out. :(

Here's hoping Popovych has something up his sleeve for the Alps as well.

[NickO'Time]

Warning: Stage 12 result!
Hooray for Popo! :D I'm glad Discovery could get something positive after yesterday's disaster. Poor Paolo apparently got hit in the head by a spectator yesterday, which required stitches. He had to abandon today. Novall also is out. :(

Here's hoping Popovych has something up his sleeve for the Alps as well.
Yeah he did well! Very aggressive, but there still is a long way to go left in the Tour. The Alps will solidify and change up the G.C in one day. Mainly I think this was a move to get some air time for the sponsor and also for the overall "Team Classification"

[Not Afraid]

Watching it now.

[NickO'Time]

Landis lost the jersey but he did so without worrying about it. Perrero(sp) is ahead by 1:30, while Voight finally gets his stage! Great Job Jens! (I met him in San Luis Obispo at the Tour of California. ) Really nice guy, geniune.

Good stage today as the break was ahead at 30 minutes at one point. :snap:

[Not Afraid]

I LOVED Today's (yesterday's) stage. This is the Tour excitement that I've meed craving. I love how we just don't know what's goig to happen day to day. I can't WAIT until I watch at 11ish tomorrow (today!).

[NickO'Time]

Yeah, the Stage was more exciting and you could tell Landis wasnt worried when the cameras were rolling beside him in the back of the peloton.

Btw, I will be in town, obviously for the DL's Birthday! :D :cool: :)

[Stan4dSteph]

Can't wait for L'Alpe d'Huez on Tuesday! Woo!

[alphabassettgrrl]

I never thought bicycle racing could be fun to watch, but I'm really enjoying it. The team strategy, the sprints, the time in the mountains... Good stuff.

[Not Afraid]

YAY BABY!

[NickO'Time]

Landis is a bad ass!!! He bonks the yesterday. Then he smokes everybody like Eddy Merckx, including Oscar P! Amazing rider! Landis is riding like it's his last. I really hope that after the Tour is over and he has the hip surgery, that he recovers quickly, to come back and fight again next year. I will never forget watching Landis at the San Francisco GP riding a wheelie up the steep grade of Taylor hill!! He is such a superb bike handler and professional!
It was so amazing ! Props to Floyd Landis! :snap: :cheers: :cool:

[alphabassettgrrl]

Yeah, Floyd! Watching him come back yesterday was amazing.

[NickO'Time]

It's all about the time trial.and remember Landis had a bike change in the last time trial. And still beat Perriro by 1:30 or so. So this will be interesting.

[NickO'Time]

They are still only separated by :59 seconds. It's not over til it's over! Landis in the lead.

[Not Afraid]

The Pod People have their Tivo set so we can watch it over breakfast. YAY!

[scaeagles]

Landis tests positive for drugs (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14059185/)

[Moonliner]

Landis tests positive for drugs (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14059185/)

If he cheated then throw the bumm out, however I wonder if that's the case.

I know he was in pain from the bad hip, pain releases adrenaline but I believe it also raises testosterone levels (which helps to block pain (http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1017))

So could a rider like Landis actually gain an advantage by riding through the pain and if the high level of hormons are natural (ie a result of hip damage) then can you ban him for it?

[scaeagles]

I'm sure more investigation is needed. However, you know the Europeans, sick of Armstrong and constantly throwing doping allegations at him, are going to eat this up, and the controversy will never die no matter what the eventual final findings are.

[Not Afraid]

I wouldn't blamet the "Europeans". Cycling has been frought with drug scandals for years now and the two most prominant cyclists that were kicked out of the Tour this year are both Europeans.

You're right that this will folow him for years, as it continues to do with Lance. I sure hope the tests are incorrect in some way.

[scaeagles]

I wouldn't blamet the "Europeans".

Perhaps I haven't been in tune enough with any outrage directed at the two cyclists kicked out this year. All I know is that there seemingly genuine hatred of Armstrong that has been well publicized. I just can imagine all the years of unproven accusations against Armstrong coming to a huge head on the part of those who despise Armstrong even if they are proven to be nothing.

They may very well be something.

[Gemini Cricket]

Doping?! Cheater cheater pumpkin eater.

[SacTown Chronic]

Why the outrage over doping? Surely there's no competetive advantage to be gained from it, right? Anecdotally, when I'm doping the last thing I want do is race my bike up a mountain or two.

[Stan4dSteph]

Landis' blood sample "A" showed elevated levels of testosterone. Now they need to go and test his "B" sample before anything is definitive.

I also thought that perhaps his levels were elevated because of his abnormal physical condition. I hope it turns out to be an error.

[Not Afraid]

Perhaps I haven't been in tune enough with any outrage directed at the two cyclists kicked out this year. All I know is that there seemingly genuine hatred of Armstrong that has been well publicized. I just can imagine all the years of unproven accusations against Armstrong coming to a huge head on the part of those who despise Armstrong even if they are proven to be nothing.

They may very well be something.


There have been MANY cyclists kicked out of the Tour over the years. There were 7 this year and 9 in 1998 (the entire Festina team, if I remember correctly). I don't know if any if those removed are Americans, but none of the big names were American.

Armstrong has been under scrutiny for a while and, recent eye-witness testimony from Bobby Julich's wife of Armstrongs performance-enhancing drug use haven't helped matters. It hasn't helped that cycling is getting a reputation for excessive drug use - and the rep is not unfounded.

Armstrong's 7 consecutuve wins of Le Tour is a first and I'm not surprised there is suspicion of drug use, although I don't believe he would risk his life in that way after recovering from cancer.

[Gemini Cricket]

Yes, we don't know if he actually doped until the second test comes back, but who actually in their right mind thinks they can get away with this sort of thing? I mean, even Bush brought it up during one of his official speeches. It's a hot topic. Too hot to actually do...

[NickO'Time]

:mad: Im so livid about this. These guys think they can stay one step ahead of the doping controls. It is insanely stupid that they try with the technology of today. There have been situations where Testerone levels in a human being are unusually high. Gert Jan Theunisse had the same situation. All in all,Floyd should have his trophy stripped and Perriero should be crowned winner, if this is the case. Rant over!:mad:

[NickO'Time]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Check out this link. Interesting.

[Moonliner]

:mad: Im so livid about this. These guys think they can stay one step ahead of the doping controls. It is insanely stupid that they try with the technology of today. There have been situations where Testerone levels in a human being are unusually high. Gert Jan Theunisse had the same situation. All in all,Floyd should have his trophy stripped and Perriero should be crowned winner, if this is the case. Rant over!:mad:

Innocent until proven guilty?

[NickO'Time]

Innocent until proven guilty?
Let me elaborate.(sp) I think that Landis may have an unusual amount of Testosterone. Which is common in a couple of cyclists over the years. Anything over 51 percent of (Testosterone) is an alarm for the doping controls. His may be higher naturally. But on the other sides of the coin(s), It is getting old to see the cyclists constantly under the scope. As well the cyclists who do come up positive. Tyler Hamilton was on the list as well that Ullrich and Basso were on, so he sealed his fate for sure on that one.
I was a bit hasty, but righly so with so many cyclists being busted lately. I had a friend drop by and tell me about it. So I was not happy about it.

[Not Afraid]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Check out this link. Interesting.


WOW. Tough read. They thyroid thing is interesting as well. I know that, with thyroid problems, your whole endochrine system is effected and things can easily get wacky. Damn.

[NickO'Time]

Quote:

Here's a possible explanation from John Eustis on ESPN sports talk show:

He failed the test NOT because the testosterone was too high but because the ration of testosterone to epitestosterone(sp?) was too high
and the numbers don't look right to the observers because the ration came out as 11:: 1..... anything over 6::1 is too high.... and again the sample wasn't because the testosterone was so high but because the other component was incredibly low ---- the "hope" is that this artificially low reading might have been the result of all the cortisone shots he takes for the hip ... that's one possibility

another possibility is that he could take a complete endocrine test which might show that he naturally produces these ratios

of course, it doesn't look good to me that he's been tested many times and this result didn't come up before...

Eustis also said the French Press was in heaven, sort of like us Conservatives when Bill Clinton got caught ----- personally, I'd be the first to jump on an anti-France rant at this point, but I have to admire the two French boys in the top 10 as well as the French stage victories.... their best showing in years?

TreZ This might shed more light on the situation. Its froma local club in Stockton.:cool:

[scaeagles]

More news - if you can trust the source. I hate the usage of unnamed sources with leaks.

Synthetic testosterone in his system (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/sports/othersports/01landis.html?ei=5065&en=62f8b57a3bf5609d&ex=1155096000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)

[Not Afraid]

Not good news. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/5233476.stm)

Results from the B test were positive and Phonak has dismissed him and will not defend him in his legal battle.

The American's Phonak team dismissed Landis on Saturday when it was confirmed he produced levels more than twice the legal limit after stage 17.

[wendybeth]

Tori has Phonak digital hearing aids. That has nothing to do with this conversation, but I felt I should contribute something.

[NirvanaMan]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about Lars Ulrich being kicked out of the latest Metallica Tour http://metaltabs.com/forum/images/smilies/banger.gif

Me too!!! That's why I clicked.

[CoasterMatt]

I thought Phonak was some kind of Czech magician...

[NickO'Time]

Yes and the trophy and title are being handed over to Oscar Perirero