WDW Pirates - I rode it today

[flippyshark]

Okay, so our Florida POTC is in soft opening mode, so I took a spin today after work.

THIS IS AN ALL SPOILER REVIEW

It looks like we got pretty much all the same new stuff. We have the Davy Jones mist curtain, we have all three Jack Sparrow appearances, we have Barbossa, movie score in the battle scene and the subdued movie music in the caves. So, what did I think? Allow me to bullet-point.

Davy Jones effect - It' s kind of a cool effect. Its the first thing you see on our version, just after your boat leaves the dock, and you turn the first corner into the cave. (For those who have not visited our park, we haven't got a Blue Bayou, and the only two scenes in our cave are the beached skeletons and the shipwreck. Our one very tiny drop comes after those two scenes, and leads directly into the fortress attack.) The main weakness with it is, it looks and feels like projected video. Davy Jones is seen in close-up, full face, which really adds to the TV-ness of it. If the image were instead something whispy and ghostly, I would have liked it a lot better. Also, out here at least, the waterfall illusion was not at all convincing. As an introduction to the rest of the ride, well, it's okay. I wouldn't cry if it went away. meh.

Also, our shipwreck scene did not get the new effects you all apparently got.

Talking Skull - Ours used to occur after the shipwreck and just before the drop. Well, he wasn't there at all today! Maybe they are still working on him. Anyway, there was a cast member seated near the drop area, and she kept shining a flashlight beam on the boats as they went by, and saying, in a really snotty sounding voice,"No standing up!" and (my favorite) "No flash photography." This while shining a flashlight on us. This had better be a temporary situation. (grrrr)

Jack Sparrow #1 - He is indeed a convincing simulation of the real thing. Ours is standing in between two dressforms, rather than behind. (From the video I have seen, it looks like California Jack kind of hides behind the dressmakers form, moves around and peeks out from behind and from the side. Ours stands still in one place and ducks and weaves. His feet are in view and firmly planted in one spot.) Everyone oohed and aahhed when they saw him.

Jack Sparrow #2 - This looks just like y'alls. Our "pooped pirate" has been nicely upgraded, and now holds a key and has the same dialogue as CA. A bit of a bummer, his voice over the last several years has been that of my Kodak boss, Gary Rorman. Gary was only heard in our Florida "politically corrected" version. It was fun to ride through with people, point to him and say, "that's my boss' voice." No longer. Anyway, this scene is fine. I spent so much time looking at the new figures, I did not even notice who was chasing whom in the background.

Jack Sparrow #3 - Our POTC has always ended just after the prison scene, with an abbreviated finale. We used to see a treasure room, in which two army guards were bound and gagged, tied to chairs and watching helplessly as three or four pirates shot back and forth at each other. Now, that same treasure room is occupied by Jack, and all those other figures are GONE! Yes, this always humble finale has become less than what it once was. Also, I couldn't hear a word Jack was saying. (He is talking to a parrot in our version, instead of to the guests going by.) This ending came off as really abrupt and anticlimactic to me.

So, in all, our new version takes away while it gives. Johnny D is cool and all, but I walked away a little dispirited. We'll see how I feel on repeated visits. (And someday, I will be able to compare it to the D'land experience.)

[€uroMeinke]

Hmmmm, I think I may have to say Paris has my favorite Pirates...

[innerSpaceman]

Ugh, as I might have thought, they've taken the most sorry excuse for a Pirates of the Caribberan and made it ... OMG, who'd of thought it possible ... WORSE.


As for Paris .... what really ticks me off about the California revision is that it takes away from what made the original head and shoulders above all - including Paris. Walt's travel-backwards-through-time curse was a stroke of brilliance which, unsurprisingly, sailed above the heads of most guests. That does not make it lame. People are stupid and there's no requirement to cater to them when your guest of average intelligence will appreciate the artistry.

Now, alas, the original has been dumbed down ... there's even less explanation of why we're going backwards in time ... and the forward-in-time chronology of the Paris version is on a more level playing field with Walt's creation.

Bah and double and triple frelling BAH!






(and if, five years from now, they are still the only version without movie score atrocities and Depp retardedness, Paris will indeed - - through no improvement of its own - - be the BEST Pirates of the Caribbean on the planet .... powered in part by the spinning of Walt in his grave)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Jack #1 sounds like he's situated just like ours. Ours is also in full view of the boats, standing between things instead of behind them.

[innerSpaceman]

When you first see Sparrow, he's positioned so that he looks like he's "wearing" the dress form ... but for most of the time he's visible, he is indeed clearly so ... standing between the dress dummies.


Of course, he's still visible there when he's also poking out of a barrel, being in two places at once and destroying any illusion that he somehow moved at the speed of bullit propulsion from one place to the next.

Maybe it's supposed to be Jack Sparrow and the Disneyland atmosphere double who reportedly will be prowling New Orleans Square to the delight of squealing, teenage girls.

[RStar]

I'm not a teenage girl, and I like Captain Jack Sparrow. I am a movie buff, and a Johnny Depp fan of his work. I think Johnny did a fantastic job with Jack. Also, the POTC movie was a smashing success. I have't seen the ride yet so I can't give an opinion, but from what I've heard the majority like it. I'm not sure I would call it "Dumming down". Walt may have very well call it "Plussing". He always looked for a way to improve things, and while the ideas may not be pulled off by WDI as well today as Walt may have, I find it presumptuous to assume he is spinning in his grave because of a ride update IMHO. I know some people don't like when people mess with the rides Walt had his hand in, but at least (from what I hear) they removed the PC part of the ride that was so poorly instituted a few years back!

~Bob

[Ghoulish Delight]

...they removed the PC part of the ride that was so poorly instituted a few years back!

~BobThey didn't remove it, they altered it slightly and it remains PC and lame.

As for the alterations as a whole, while I still find it an enjoyable ride, I fear that iSm may be right in that it has been altered to a point where it's lost its capacity to be a lasting experience. You just don't mess with perfection. There's a certain amount of tweaking that's fine to do (witness the continual improvement of the Auctioneer over the decades). Upgrade an effect or two, add a small, interesting element. But they can't lose track of what the essential elements are that make it a memorable classic. It's no coincidence, as iSm pointed out elsewhere, that two of the most beloved attractions in theme park history (Mansion and Pirates) share (or shared) the quality of having plausible sources for all the music and sound.

There's an undeniable difference in impact between "Holy crap, I'm in the middle of a pirate battle, all I hear is pirates yelling and cannon fire" and "Holy crap, I'm watching a Pirate battle, it's so exciting!" It's subtle, but there, whether the average guest is aware of it or not. There are thousands of theme park rides that people enjoy, but don't have the nostalgic power that Pirates has. So just because people are saying the still enjoy the ride doesn't mean that it hasn't lost that essential spark that made it ageless.

EDIT: Aw crap, this is the WDW thread. Sorry.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not sure that WDW ever had the curse that sends you back through time. Perhaps it's not necessary when, as in Paris, the land the ride is situated in is not specifically a century or two later than the days of pirates and their pillaging.

Nevertheless, Walt's method of getting around that was brilliance. Perhaps it isn't "necessary" to have it, but it's a loss when it's missing and a mistake in thinking it was just a way to get around a particular problem.

Case in Point - WDW's very own Haunted Mansion. No berm, no need for a stretch room. So, no decending feeling as their ceiling simply rises above you. The room may have been designed to solve a problem that does not exist anywhere else, but it's an integral part of the Haunted Mansion experience nonetheless.


Paris seems to have solved many of the mistakes learned from the DisneyWorld adaptations. Phantom Manor was placed on a hill - - in part so that the stretch room could be used to return guests to ground level. But their decision to go chrono-forward in Pirates is, imo, a lesser bit of coolness than Disneyland's backwards time travel.





btw, I love Johnny Depp, admire 90% of his work, and adore Captain Jack Sparrow. It was the Disneyland doppleganger face character whom I referred to as being present primarily to delight squealing, teenage girls. :iSm:

[Ghoulish Delight]

See, that's why, while I'm wary that iSm may be correct, I'm not assuming doom, I'm more in a wait and see mode. Because when we went to Paris, I had no idea what the differences between the Parisian and Anaheimian versions of Pirates and Mansion were. So I really experienced them as new-to-me attractions. And I thoroughly enjoyed them, and felt that they lived up to their conuterparts. The differences were executed with quality and good creative thought. So I know it's possible for it to be different, yet still excellent.

But I'm a little worried that the recent changes are a little too slap-dash to stand the test of time. Wedged into an existing ride like that, it could disrupt everything. It's one thing to build the ride from the ground up with those kinds of differences. It's another to make major alterations to an existing attraction. Much higher chance of creative clash in that case.

In the park, we had discussed the question of whether "new is good", "new is always good", "classic is good", "upgraded is good", etc. In the end, we realized there was only one statement that holds true 100% of the time. "Good is good." New or old, upgraded or replaced, if something is done well, it's going to show. I worry that these changes rely too much on a "new is good" concept vs "good is good".

[Not Afraid]

I love Phantom Manor and the Paris version of Pirates. They are both unique, well thouht out attractions that differ from the originals in highly creative and pleasing ways. They aren't clones but siblings with wonderful unique qualities.

I think what bothers me MOST about the new Pirates is the "commercial product placement". I don't WANT to see a commercial when i go to DL. I think that, more than anythin else, is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think what bothers me MOST about the new Pirates is the "commercial product placement". I don't WANT to see a commercial when i go to DL. I think that, more than anythin else, is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.Eh, that's not so much an issue for me. The castle was a commercial for Sleeping Beauty. Heck, the whole park was a commercial for the company's products. I don't believe for a second that Walt didn't see the revenue possiblities of a life-size, full sensory advertisement. What separates the good from the bad is, is the advertisement value coming from "Let's get it in front of their face as much as possible for brand recognition," or is it coming from, "Let's make it as good as we can so that they'll want more."? It's that latter type of advertising that once distinguished Disney.

[innerSpaceman]

I beg to differ. The Matterhorn was not a commerical for Third Man on the Mountain. And though the Fantasyland Castle was hastily renamed for an upcoming release, only one of the Fantasyland dark rides was tied in to a remotely recent movie, and none to anything upcoming.

Since then, during Walt's time, there were - count 'em - zero product placements in attractions and structures (though entertainment had plenty of proto-synergy).

Swiss Family Treehouse was well after the fact. There were no other movie tie-ins, period.


Even post-Walt ... Star Tours, Indiana Jones and Splash Mountain were years, ahem - decades - after the films they tied in with.


Sorry, but the product placement of Commericals of the Caribbean is a Disneyland first!

[Not Afraid]

Thank you ISM.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I wasn't claiming that each element was an advertisement for a specific product. But Disneyland as a whole is and was a marketing piece for the Disney brand as a whole. Walt wasn't stupid.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Since then, during Walt's time, there were - count 'em - zero product placements in attractions and structures (though entertainment had plenty of proto-synergy).To bring up just one example - Monsanto? What am I missing here? The ride was one big commercial.

Don't even try to tell me that because the Fantasyland rides didn't come out when the movies did that that means they weren't advertising. The movies were relased in theaters over and over again. Proto-synergy my ass - this was real-deal-in-your-face-see-it-again-buy-the-toy-synergy.

I cannot comprehend how anyone could claim that Walt was not aware of the inherent ads, backwards and forwards and sideways between all his various products, and didn't use it to his full capabilities. Yes, he wasn't an idiot - and he did it all without allowing it to hamper the experiences and products.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[CoasterMatt]

A big part of why Pinocchio got such a big ride in the "New" Fantasyland was an impending rerelease.

[flippyshark]

I been workin' on DERAIL-road, all the livelong day ...

s'okay, guys. The topic may have morphed, but it's an interesting discussion.

[CoasterMatt]

WDW got a "Reader's Digest" version of PotC because the original just kicked so much ass... there, thread back on topic :)

[RStar]

You guys definatly bring up some good points about the POTC update. As ISM pointed out, the original goes back in time, but stick Captain Jack in there and- "wait a minute! I saw him at the theater last week!" It's a slap in the face to bring you back to the present. I'm with GD, I'll wait and see.

And as far as the product synergy, it's the reason Disneyland has it's charm. Think about the themeing of any other ride in any other park, it doesn't have the charm, heart, or memorability that the rides at DL have. It's not meant to simply sell product though there is that side to it (look at the shops at the end of the ride for that ;) ). It's so you can experience the movie while on the ride. Otherwise we would all be going around in circles on roller coasters and ferris wheels and calling it a ride.

~Bob