View Full Version : White House Proposal Would Expand Authority of Military Courts
Betty
08-02-2006, 05:37 PM
OMFG! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101334.html
Here's a taste:
"A draft Bush administration plan for special military courts seeks to expand the reach and authority of such "commissions" to include trials, for the first time, of people who are not members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and are not directly involved in acts of international terrorism, according to officials familiar with the proposal. "
"Under the proposed procedures, defendants would lack rights to confront accusers, exclude hearsay accusations, or bar evidence obtained through rough or coercive interrogations. They would not be guaranteed a public or speedy trial and would lack the right to choose their military counsel, who in turn would not be guaranteed equal access to evidence held by prosecutors."
" John D. Hutson, the Navy's top uniformed lawyer from 1997 to 2000, said the rules would evidently allow the government to tell a prisoner: "We know you're guilty. We can't tell you why, but there's a guy, we can't tell you who, who told us something. We can't tell you what, but you're guilty."
So - let me see if I got this right. You don't have to be in the military or a terrorist to be tried by a military court where they don't have to present you with a lawyer, a speedy trial, any evidence they hold, or even have any valid evidence at all.
Even better it goes on to say "To secure a death penalty under the draft legislation, at least five jurors must agree, two fewer than under the administration's earlier plan. Courts-martial and federal civilian trials require that 12 jurors agree."
So - the administration that respects life in the womb so much that it won't support stem stell research - but will kill a guy when a majority of people don't think he's guilty, even after he hasn't necessarily rec'd a fair trial in the way most of us would think of one.
Discuss.
LSPoorEeyorick
08-02-2006, 05:42 PM
Oh, my. Just when you think your government can't get any scarier-- or stupider-- they take you by surprise again.
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 05:54 PM
I'm sure it's for our own good.
Again, nothing this man tries would surprise me. Maybe the Pope was right.
Scrooge McSam
08-02-2006, 06:32 PM
I'm sure it's for our own good.
You're getting it. Everything's gonna be fine. Half the population can't be wrong. It's not possible.
And we DON'T torture. I can't tell you how relieved I was to find that out.
Scotch? I know I've got some here somewhere.
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 06:41 PM
You know, the President does not approve of drinking.
scaeagles
08-02-2006, 06:45 PM
Just to be on record, I do not support this.
mousepod
08-02-2006, 06:46 PM
You know, the President does not approve of drinking.
Suuuuure (http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/63426).
BarTopDancer
08-02-2006, 06:46 PM
I just ordered this shirt. (http://www.glarkware.com/securestore/c181846p16412290.2.html)
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 06:46 PM
Scaeagels-
I didn't think you did. You're not insane.
innerSpaceman
08-02-2006, 06:54 PM
I love you all .... but I'm looking for a new country.
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 06:55 PM
Really, we're just going up to Victoria for a...visit. A nice, loooong visit.
Scrooge McSam
08-02-2006, 07:01 PM
I love you all .... but I'm looking for a new country.
Move here. I'll sponsor you.
LOL You'll think you're in another country.
SacTown Chronic
08-02-2006, 07:11 PM
Bush country, baby.
CoasterMatt
08-02-2006, 07:37 PM
I've been asked to move to Australia - but as cool as Lashbear is, they only really have 1 good rollercoaster in the entire country.
sleepyjeff
08-02-2006, 07:44 PM
Even better it goes on to say "To secure a death penalty under the draft legislation, at least five jurors must agree, two fewer than under the administration's earlier plan. Courts-martial and federal civilian trials require that 12 jurors agree."
So - the administration -----will kill a guy when a majority of people don't think he's guilty.
Discuss.
I think you may have misunderstood. It's not 5 of 12 but 5 of 5. Everyone on the jury will still have to agree that the death penalty is appropriate and the article doesn't say but I bet appeals will still be available.
scaeagles
08-02-2006, 07:44 PM
It would be very interesting to hear the justifications for this.
€uroMeinke
08-02-2006, 07:56 PM
I love you all .... but I'm looking for a new country.
Deutschland Deutschland uber alles...
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 08:09 PM
I think you may have misunderstood. It's not 5 of 12 but 5 of 5. Everyone on the jury will still have to agree that the death penalty is appropriate and the article doesn't say but I bet appeals will still be available.
You.....bet? That's not a bet I would make these days.
Doesn't the fact that you are unsure bother you?
innerSpaceman
08-02-2006, 08:19 PM
€uro's spiffy remark hits me with humor and horror all at once. The Nazis were able to do what they did because the populace allowed it.
We're nowhere near that yet, but I think it's beyond time to keep track and be ready to lay down our lives if necessary to prevent or protest or simply refuse to live in the fascist state those in power would create.
BarTopDancer
08-02-2006, 08:22 PM
Every day I become a bit more grateful for my Canadian citizenship as well as a place of residence in Canada. 4 bedrooms, 2 story house. In 3 weeks I can probably sneak everyone in. We're all good friends right?
€uroMeinke
08-02-2006, 08:29 PM
California, Uber Alles!
Hey - we're already making greenhouse emission agreements with England - let's make our own country.
sleepyjeff
08-02-2006, 08:41 PM
You.....bet? That's not a bet I would make these days.
Doesn't the fact that you are unsure bother you?
Not really. I am sure that if appeals were not going to be available that this article surely would have touched on that too. However; what I was really pointing out was that it would take 5 jurors out of 5 jurors, not 5 of 12 as was suggested, to sentence someone to death.
wendybeth
08-02-2006, 08:45 PM
California, Uber Alles!
Hey - we're already making greenhouse emission agreements with England - let's make our own country.
Didn't Berkley just vote to impeach Bush, or are considering it?
BarTopDancer
08-02-2006, 09:20 PM
California, Uber Alles!
Hey - we're already making greenhouse emission agreements with England - let's make our own country.
And we are one of the biggest economies in the world.
innerSpaceman
08-02-2006, 09:51 PM
Not kidding in any way .... i would join the Californian army tomorrow if we would announce our succession from the Union.
(even if it were not for the approaching American Fascist State, I am already so tired of progressive California being held back by the U.S. that I would have joined the succession army anyway.)
DreadPirateRoberts
08-02-2006, 10:09 PM
Not kidding in any way .... i would join the Californian army tomorrow if we would announce our succession from the Union.
Seceding from the Union doesn't have the best track record...
€uroMeinke
08-02-2006, 10:20 PM
If Latvia can do it why can't we?
DreadPirateRoberts
08-02-2006, 10:23 PM
If Latvia can do it why can't we?
Go for it (http://www.californiasecession.org/).
€uroMeinke
08-02-2006, 10:45 PM
Where's Governor Jerry Brown?
innerSpaceman
08-02-2006, 11:02 PM
Really, Brown would lead us to victory.
And feh, succession hasn't been tried in like forever.
Sure, the U.S. has an invincible military, but for 1) we in California possess a HUGE chunk of that military - - which we will take over on Day One of La Revolusion and 2) even today, it's been PROVEN that the U.S. cannot conquer a guerilla insurgency.
Um, what are we waiting for!!!!?!?!?!?
sleepyjeff
08-02-2006, 11:03 PM
http://www.jeffersonstate.com/
What would you do with these guys?
scaeagles
08-03-2006, 06:12 AM
ISM - why don't you move to Texas? I believe they are allowed to secede at any time, as was part of the agreement when they joined the union.
That way you can do it without any nasty bloodshed.
Gemini Cricket
08-03-2006, 06:16 AM
"Do you hear the people sing?
Say, do you hear the distant drum?"
Viva La Resistance! Now let's all go to Starbucks after a trip to Disneyland's fry cart.
:D
I'm not leaving. I'll stay and fight. That's the Boston way. This is my country, too. Tea in the harbor, baby! Where's my Native American war paint?
innerSpaceman
08-03-2006, 07:36 AM
Hahaha, we get Disneyland when we take California out of the fascist equation!
Secede on unfriendly terms and Los Angeles ceases to exist in anything like its current form.
58% of your water comes from the Colorado River and Arizona and Mexico would love it if you stopped taking it.
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 08:33 AM
ISM - why don't you move to Texas? I believe they are allowed to secede at any time, as was part of the agreement when they joined the union.
They also are allowed to split into 5 seperate States if they so desire too..........can you say 8 more Senators and an end to the fillibuster instantly?:)
Nephythys
08-03-2006, 08:34 AM
Really, Brown would lead us to victory.
And feh, succession hasn't been tried in like forever.
Sure, the U.S. has an invincible military, but for 1) we in California possess a HUGE chunk of that military - - which we will take over on Day One of La Revolusion and 2) even today, it's been PROVEN that the U.S. cannot conquer a guerilla insurgency.
Um, what are we waiting for!!!!?!?!?!?
I only have one quibble with this- you have Disneyland- otherwise- go ahead.:p
Ghoulish Delight
08-03-2006, 08:36 AM
Suddenly I have visions of the US Army rolling in and toppling the partners statue.
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 08:38 AM
I believe part of Disneyland belongs to the State of Missouri.....;)
JWBear
08-03-2006, 08:42 AM
Secede on unfriendly terms and Los Angeles ceases to exist in anything like its current form.
58% of your water comes from the Colorado River and Arizona and Mexico would love it if you stopped taking it.
All the pumping stations will be on our side of the river :evil:
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 08:44 AM
All the pumping stations will be on our side of the river :evil:
Dam!
JWBear
08-03-2006, 08:45 AM
Suddenly I have visions of the US Army rolling in and toppling the partners statue.
Why do I suddenly have this mental image of thousands of APers standing in the Hub, waving banners and singing Freebird as the tanks roll up Main Street.....
JWBear
08-03-2006, 08:46 AM
Dam!
That's in Nevada.
All the pumping stations will be on our side of the river :evil:
And if secession is on unfriendly terms, how long do you think that will last?
It also probably isn't good that up to 30% of California's electricity comes from out of state. And another 30% is produced in the parts of Northern California that probably wouldn't be interested in sessesion.
Ghoulish Delight
08-03-2006, 09:05 AM
And if secession is on unfriendly terms, how long do you think that will last?
It also probably isn't good that up to 30% of California's electricity comes from out of state. And another 30% is produced in the parts of Northern California that probably wouldn't be interested in sessesion.
Damnit, I'm sick of this reliance on foreign sources of energy. We need to start digging wells and drilling for oil in Disneyland.
Energy Independence for California!
JWBear
08-03-2006, 09:06 AM
And if secession is on unfriendly terms, how long do you think that will last?
It also probably isn't good that up to 30% of California's electricity comes from out of state. And another 30% is produced in the parts of Northern California that probably wouldn't be interested in sessesion.
Party pooper!
DreadPirateRoberts
08-03-2006, 09:08 AM
We need to start digging wells and drilling for oil in Disneyland.
There is lots of real estate for solar panels on top of all the dark ride buildings.
Gemini Cricket
08-03-2006, 09:37 AM
There is lots of real estate for solar panels on top of all the dark ride buildings.
No no no. We can't do that. Because if we take over Disneyland, I want to theme that area to look like the roofs of the buildings. I'm theming that because I'm also going to put back the Skyway.
:D
The solar panels have to go somewhere where no one goes or no one sees. Like Innoventions...
:D
€uroMeinke
08-03-2006, 10:20 AM
And if secession is on unfriendly terms, how long do you think that will last?
It also probably isn't good that up to 30% of California's electricity comes from out of state. And another 30% is produced in the parts of Northern California that probably wouldn't be interested in sessesion.
There's easily space at San Onofre for another Nuc now that Unit One is shut down. And we can dust off plans for that Huntington Beach combined Nuc and and de-sal plant.
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 11:28 AM
No no no. We can't do that. Because if we take over Disneyland, I want to theme that area to look like the roofs of the buildings. I'm theming that because I'm also going to put back the Skyway.
:D
The solar panels have to go somewhere where no one goes or no one sees. Like Innoventions...
:D
I think solar panals on all the roofs of TL would actually look nice.
Adventureland....not so much;)
JWBear
08-03-2006, 01:36 PM
I think we should bulldoze Fresno and turn it into a giant solar farm. It's not being used for much anyway.
Morrigoon
08-03-2006, 04:08 PM
Every day I become a bit more grateful for my Canadian citizenship as well as a place of residence in Canada. 4 bedrooms, 2 story house. In 3 weeks I can probably sneak everyone in. We're all good friends right?
Don't have to sneak me in dear... I just have to apply at the consulate to claim my dual citizenship.
This is really, REALLY scary. It's like... Castro scary.
mousepod
08-03-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm glad I married a Canadian!
Not Afraid
08-03-2006, 04:45 PM
And, my husband needs to persue his duel citizenship tout suite. Or, maybe that should be sofort.
Motorboat Cruiser
08-03-2006, 04:58 PM
As far as the water thing goes...
We just have to withhold broadcasting "American Idol" until the pumps are turned back on. The rest of the country will freak and we'll have our water back before you can say Ryan Seacrest.
Gemini Cricket
08-03-2006, 04:59 PM
...tout suite.
A musical morsel supreme!
Toot Sweets!
Toot Sweets!
The candies you whistle, the whistles you eat.
Toot Sweets!
Toot Sweets!
The eatable, tweetable treats!
I'm soooo gay.
:D
JWBear
08-03-2006, 04:59 PM
As far as the water thing goes...
We just have to withhold broadcasting "American Idol" until the pumps are turned back on. The rest of the country will freak and we'll have our water back before you can say Ryan Seacrest.
Hee!
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 04:59 PM
I'll help divert the Columbia River to California myself if you guys would just stop American Idol;)
Gemini Cricket
08-03-2006, 05:01 PM
I'll help divert the Columbia River to California myself if you guys would just stop American Idol;)
Yes, stop American Idol.
Not Afraid
08-03-2006, 05:17 PM
A musical morsel supreme!
Toot Sweets!
Toot Sweets!
The candies you whistle, the whistles you eat.
Toot Sweets!
Toot Sweets!
The eatable, tweetable treats!
I'm soooo gay.
:D
So, what's my excuse?
I'll help divert the Columbia River to California myself if you guys would just stop American Idol;)
On a semi-serious note, if you never have you should read Cadillac Dessert a history of water policy in the American West. It goes into some detail on the actual proposals for diverting the water from the Columbia and Klamath rivers for use by Los Angeles and the Central Valley.
That book is my version of Silent Spring (or, more recently, Fast Food Nation). I get so angry every time I read part of it.
sleepyjeff
08-03-2006, 08:27 PM
On a semi-serious note, if you never have you should read Cadillac Dessert a history of water policy in the American West. It goes into some detail on the actual proposals for diverting the water from the Columbia and Klamath rivers for use by Los Angeles and the Central Valley.
That book is my version of Silent Spring (or, more recently, Fast Food Nation). I get so angry every time I read part of it.
Although I have not read that book I have listened to years of local talk radio regarding that very subject......it does make my blood boil.
€uroMeinke
08-03-2006, 08:45 PM
Pardon me while I hose down the driveway...
And of course, the title is Cadillac Desert.
Sub la Goon
08-03-2006, 09:15 PM
As always, the Onion comes through with another hilariously stinging headline:
Bush Grants Self Permission To Grant More Power To Self
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51140
Gemini Cricket
08-04-2006, 04:09 AM
And of course, the title is Cadillac Desert.
I just thought of the desert scenery in 'Cars'.
:)
Morrigoon
08-04-2006, 01:53 PM
I love the Onion.
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