Man kills 3-year-old boy for being a "sissy"!

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I think I may have posted the initial news report on this a while back, but I couldn't find it on a search. It may have been on another board.

Since the report is pretty disturbing (though I would describe it as work safe), I'm going to spoiler it. Proceed with caution.Originally posted by The Press Enterprise (http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_rmikey15.1ba554a.html)

Son's death brings 6-year term

STATE PRISON: A judge sentences the mother to the maximum term for child endangerment.

3:40 PM PDT on Tuesday, August 15, 2006

By SANDRA STOKLEY
The Press-Enterprise

RIVERSIDE - Two days after what would have been Michael "Mikey" Vallejo-Seiber's fourth birthday, his mother learned she will spend six years in prison for failing to protect her son from the men who now stand accused of torturing and beating the boy to death.

Despite Pamela Seiber's tearful pleas for leniency, Riverside Superior Court Judge Janice McIntyre sentenced the young woman to the maximum sentence for child endangerment. Her name is spelled Sieber in court documents.

"If I could change anything in my life, I would change when I met Alex," Seiber, 23, sobbed. "My son was my best friend."

Alex Mendoza is her former boyfriend, a 27-year-old Inland rapper charged in Mikey's death. Also charged in the boy's death is Richard Daniel Cox, 20.

Seiber and Mendoza brought the boy, who was not breathing, to Riverside Community Hospital on Aug. 28.

After he was resuscitated, Mikey was transferred to Loma Linda University Medical Center, where he died Aug. 29 of massive internal injuries.

An investigator in the case testified earlier this month that Mikey was kicked, burned with a lighter, dropped on his head and forced to eat his own feces on the night of Aug. 27-28 before Mendoza put him to bed.

Seiber was at work at the time.

Cox and Mendoza have been charged with murder with the special circumstance of torture and assault on a child resulting in great bodily injury or death, meaning they are eligible for the death penalty if prosecutors request it.

Mendoza is charged also with abusing his now-deceased father, Marcellino Mendoza.

After three days of testimony that started last month, Judge Elisabeth Sichel said she would announce at 4 p.m. today whether to hold the two men for trial.*

During a courtroom break after Seiber's sentencing, paramedics were called to treat the woman for an anxiety attack. Seiber is fourth months pregnant.

Bill Seiber, Pamela Seiber's father, called the sentence "excessive."

"She recognized that she bore responsibility," Seiber said, noting that his daughter had voluntarily entered a guilty plea in May. The boy's father, Francisco Vallejo, is in state prison.

After the break, a handcuffed Seiber took the stand to testify at the preliminary hearing for the two men.

Calmly, Seiber recounted how she had met Mendoza at Fantasies, the strip club where she performed in July 2005. In early August, Seiber and her son began spending time at Mendoza's Rubidoux home.

Seiber said Mendoza was openly critical of her child-rearing methods, calling Mikey "a sissy" who needed to be toughened up. Mendoza said he wanted to make Mikey "a soldier" and at one point urged him to beat up his Elmo doll, Seiber said.

Five days before her son was admitted to the hospital, Seiber said, she broke it off after she saw Mendoza slapping her son on the back of the head.

"I told him not to hit my son," she said.

But she returned when Mendoza promised to be more affectionate with the boy.I am simply stunned that anyone (I can't even imagine Fred Phelps doing this) in the world could be so intensely stupid. I haven't the vocabulary to describe how vile this man is.

I think Alex Mendoza deserves to be slowly tortured to death over the next 20 years. However, without knowing the exact details of her involvement (or lack thereof), I'm not so sure Pamela Seiber deserves a prison sentence. I am sure she deserves a total hysterectomy. (Yes, I know, unconstitutional, blab blah blah....) What do y'all think?


*Judge Sichel has ruled that there is sufficient evidence to try Alex. (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid35696.asp)

[Capt Jack]

20 years of torture is a waste on such a walking POS.

a .22 in the base of the skull and call it a day. even then its a waste of ammo on such a piece of human fecal matter. I also find it pathetic that this person saw it as 'making a real man' out of him when he so obviously lacked that quality himself.

her...thats a tough one. yeah, she failed to protect her son from this monster but prison I dont think will help her any. shes lost her son for her inaction...thats a pretty high price in its own right.

[Nephythys]

This is the second story like this I have heard- the other was a woman who stood by, in the same room, while her boyfriend beat her toddler daughter to death because she ate the guys sausage.

No- those women have NOT suffered enough.

[tracilicious]

Yeah that. If someone beat my kids to death I highly doubt I would care if I spent the next six years in jail. But sadly, women stay with abusive men all the time. She probably really believed that he wouldn't touch the kid again. Doesn't mean she's not an idiot.

I do think this is different from the story sixish months ago where the dad was afraid the three year old would turn out gay and beat him. The kid was in shock for three days and stopped eating and going to the bathroom before he died and the mom didn't even take him to the hospital. These people make me wish I believed in hell.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Riverside is the sh!thole where I grew up.

And my mom wonders why I hate driving out there.

[Nephythys]

Yeah that. If someone beat my kids to death I highly doubt I would care if I spent the next six years in jail. But sadly, women stay with abusive men all the time. She probably really believed that he wouldn't touch the kid again. Doesn't mean she's not an idiot.

Someone lays a hand on my kids and they're the ones who will end up damaged. I would die to protect mine- what the HELL us wrong with a mother who wouldn't?

These people make me wish I believed in hell.

I believe enough for both of us.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Sheesh- there are worse things to grow up than being a sissy. Guy deserves a whole lot of bad coming his way.

Mom probably believed the boyfriend when he said he'd be nicer to the kid. Not real bright. Certainly not smart to leave the guy alone with your kid while you go to work but maybe she didn't have many options. He was just a kid so she couldn't leave him alone.

[Jughead P. Jones]

One thing is for certain...there's a spot in hell that is reserved for these sick and twisted individuals.

I can't even fathom why anyone would do that to a child.

[Strangler Lewis]

20 years of torture is a waste on such a walking POS.

a .22 in the base of the skull and call it a day. even then its a waste of ammo on such a piece of human fecal matter.

Having read my share of probation reports, I'd hazard a guess that the two men grew up in homes that were fairly similar to the one the poor kid lived in.

[tracilicious]

Having read my share of probation reports, I'd hazard a guess that the two men grew up in homes that were fairly similar to the one the poor kid lived in.

BFD. We all choose what kind of people to become. Having lived through hell is not an excuse to put others through hell.

[Strangler Lewis]

BFD. We all choose what kind of people to become.

We do? I guess my black, Latino, white trashy and generally fatherless clients who started abusing alcohol and serious drugs at age 12 just made bad choices stemming from a weak character.

We do? I guess my San Francisco Russian Hill neighbors who did not regularly bust liquor bottles in the street and shoot each other made better choices and had better character than my San Francisco Western Addition housing project neighbors who did.

We do? Good, then I've got my evenings back.

I've been a crime victim, I didn't care for it, and I believe that people need to be protected. However, we should approach criminal justice with sadness and humility. The conservative spin on that is "There but for the grace of God go I."

[Ponine]

BFD. We all choose what kind of people to become. Having lived through hell is not an excuse to put others through hell.
I said I would stay out of this thread..... why didnt I listen to myself???

Do you think that "living through hell" does not predispose you to create it?
That what a child lives through, they might not always see as wrong? or that they oculd be predisposed the behavior because its what they lived with?

Now I can see that the child of an alchoholic can "make a choice" to not be an alchoholic, but in the right socio-economic situation, what if they see no other alternatives?
What if they see the exact same life just come to play before their eyes...
and in part, because there was no one there to point out the differences.

The young woman that was just found after ten years 'in captivity' is now 18. She was given access to a radio, she had magazines, but she didnt have exposure to other teenagers from what we hear. No peer pressure.
All the ideas she came to beleive, were from one person, and herself.
She didnt get to make a choice as to whether or not to be a drug addict, she didnt have access.

Much the same as a teenager with constant access to drugs might not understand there is a choice.
I'm rambling... but you have me curious T.

[Ghoulish Delight]

BFD. We all choose what kind of people to become. Having lived through hell is not an excuse to put others through hell.
I think you're mistaking "explanation" for "excuse". No one's trying to excuse this scumbag for what he's done, but it's important as a society that we recognize the factors that create such scumbags. Very few people with stable upbringings suddenly choose to become child-beaters. The vast majority of the time, people who perform this kind of violence on children had similar childhoods. And the further we move as a society towards understanding that causality, the further we move towards breaking the cycle.

[Not Afraid]

BFD. We all choose what kind of people to become. Having lived through hell is not an excuse to put others through hell.

Yes, as an adult, you have the ability to make choices, but most of the time these choices are based on what you've learned throughout your life. If beating, molesting, alcoholism, drug use and crime are the norm for you then why wouldn't you continue doing these things as a normal human being would?

There may not be an excuse for people like there, but there sure as hell is a reason.

[€uroMeinke]

In theory though, those who kill their offspring should ultimately end that particular cycle of violence.

[tracilicious]

Argh! You guys all make very valid points. I actually agree with all of you. I generally can see people's motivations and feel compassion for them. But I have zero sympathy for a guy that beats a three year old to death. None whatsoever.

And at what point does personal responsibility come into play? There are those that are abused as kids that come out of it as wonderful parents. They learn from what their parents did to them and they do the opposite. Why do people that perpetuate the cycle get their behavior written off as ingrained?

I understand that it is difficult to change a pattern of behavior. But there are parenting classes, therapy, books they could read, and any number of other things they could choose to do to enable them to become parents that don't beat the sh!t out of their kids. Even the lowest income parents have access to a library. There are free parenting classes.

I don't understand people ever hitting a child. But beating them because they are a sissy? That's just horrendous.

[tracilicious]

I think you're mistaking "explanation" for "excuse". No one's trying to excuse this scumbag for what he's done, but it's important as a society that we recognize the factors that create such scumbags. Very few people with stable upbringings suddenly choose to become child-beaters. The vast majority of the time, people who perform this kind of violence on children had similar childhoods. And the further we move as a society towards understanding that causality, the further we move towards breaking the cycle.

I especially agree with this post. Just wanted to acknowledge that in an Alex Stroup approved manner. :p

[tracilicious]

We do? I guess my black, Latino, white trashy and generally fatherless clients who started abusing alcohol and serious drugs at age 12 just made bad choices stemming from a weak character.

I understand what you are saying. But at some point they are going to have to decide what kind of life they are going to live. They may not be able to do that at 12, but at some point there has to be some personal responsibility.

Kids that are molested often molest other, smaller kids. If an eight year old that has been sexually abused molests one of my kids, I'll do my best to help him and his parents get the help they need. If that same person turned 30 and molests one of my kids, I'm going to try to chop off his balls. The reasons for the action haven't changed, but the accountability has.

We do? I guess my San Francisco Russian Hill neighbors who did not regularly bust liquor bottles in the street and shoot each other made better choices and had better character than my San Francisco Western Addition housing project neighbors who did.

So what is the difference between the two? I'm not familiar with the areas.

I've been a crime victim, I didn't care for it, and I believe that people need to be protected. However, we should approach criminal justice with sadness and humility. The conservative spin on that is "There but for the grace of God go I."

I agree. Perhaps it's that this particular issue is too close to my heart, because I really have no compassion for people that hit kids. Even if I understand (but don't excuse) why they do it.

[Strangler Lewis]

Argh! You guys all make very valid points. I actually agree with all of you. I generally can see people's motivations and feel compassion for them. But I have zero sympathy for a guy that beats a three year old to death. None whatsoever.

And at what point does personal responsibility come into play? There are those that are abused as kids that come out of it as wonderful parents. They learn from what their parents did to them and they do the opposite. Why do people that perpetuate the cycle get their behavior written off as ingrained?

I understand that it is difficult to change a pattern of behavior. But there are parenting classes, therapy, books they could read, and any number of other things they could choose to do to enable them to become parents that don't beat the sh!t out of their kids. Even the lowest income parents have access to a library. There are free parenting classes.

I don't understand people ever hitting a child. But beating them because they are a sissy? That's just horrendous.

This was the boyfriend. The biological father was in prison and, judging by the last names, probably was not married to the boy's mother. The two guys who did the killing probably have fathered kids that they're not looking after very well; most of my young clients have.

I think there are low income people, mostly women, who attend parenting classes, but I don't think this generally happens unless the system is involved in some way and they are threatened with the loss of their children.

Speaking of choices, you'd think women would not need a class to teach them not to get involve with violent men, men who won't use birth control, etc. And yet . . .

[tracilicious]

[quote=Ponine]
Do you think that "living through hell" does not predispose you to create it?
That what a child lives through, they might not always see as wrong? or that they oculd be predisposed the behavior because its what they lived with?[quote]

I guess I don't completely get why people don't make see the behavior that caused them so much suffering and go to extra effort not to cause that suffering for others. That obviously doesn't happen often. I just don't know why it doesn't.

[Not Afraid]

I guess I don't completely get why people don't make see the behavior that caused them so much suffering and go to extra effort not to cause that suffering for others. That obviously doesn't happen often. I just don't know why it doesn't.

Probably because what we call suffering is just normal to them. We all continue to do things that are normal to us that others think are crazy, mostly because we are used to doing them. Fortunantely, most of the crazy things we do aren't so heinous. A person can't get help until they realize there is a problem, abd admitting that YOU have a problem is always the hardest part.

[katiesue]

I agree with a lot of the points Traci has made. I do understand that people are victims of their circumstances. But at some point you have to take personal responsibility for your actions. I know that most people in these circumstances are lower income, little or no education and I agree they aren’t going to go to parenting classes unless forced (for the most part). I just sometimes feel that people use their circumstances to excuse their own bad behavior, not all of course but some.

I don’t know what the solution is actually. Education certainly. Easy availability of birth control would be helpful. Some change in the thinking that it’s ok to have multiple kids, with multiple partners. Maybe there are too many safety nets. It’s just easier to do what you want, instead of taking some responsibility for your actions. There are many programs to help you get housing, food etc. I’m not saying that this is an easy way to live just that maybe if it weren’t given it might not be so abused. It just seems to me that a lot of people end up in these circumstances because they can. On the other hand you can’t just let people starve etc so I don’t know what could be done. It’s a huge problem and it only seems to be getting worse.

A friend was teaching at our former high school. We had a couple of girls either visibly pregnant or had already had kids by graduation. So this wasn’t shocking. But what she found with the kids currently attending was that it was almost cool to have a kid. A mini fashion accessory. The parents help them out so it doesn’t crimp their style much. My parents would have killed me. Well maybe not actually but I lived in fear of it, therefore used my brain a bit so they wouldn’t have any reason. Maybe it was better when it was shameful to be a teenage parent? Obviously not really but how can we have teenage birth rates higher than third world countries?

As I said I have no solutions, and it’s a very complicated problem. But there has to be something that can be done. Right?

[Alex]

But there has to be something that can be done. Right?

Yes there is. You say "that's a very sad story and I'm sorry you didn't find it in yourself to either be better than your upbringing or get help in controlling your impusles. But you killed somebody so off to jail with you."

[Strangler Lewis]

Yes there is. You say "that's a very sad story and I'm sorry you didn't find it in yourself to either be better than your upbringing or get help in controlling your impusles. But you killed somebody so off to jail with you."

I assume you say this in a Graham Chapman voice to make it extra funny.

[wendybeth]

I assume you say this in a Graham Chapman voice to make it extra funny.
Sorry, NA- I simply cannot let this pass.

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/compdiff/colonel.jpg

[Strangler Lewis]

Sorry, NA- I simply cannot let this pass.

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/compdiff/colonel.jpg

All's right with the world.









Dirty books, please.

[Alex]

I assume you say this in a Graham Chapman voice to make it extra funny.

I assume you assume I know who Graham Chapman* is. I don't see why it would need to be funny. Making jokes as you send someone off to jail seems unnecessarily harsh.



*wendybeth's response leads me to assume he is a Monty Python person.

[Stan4dSteph]

*wendybeth's response leads me to assume he is a Monty Python person.Yes. He's the dead one.

[wendybeth]

All's right with the world.









Dirty books, please.
http://static.flickr.com/41/123918264_1a9e163a8f_m.jpg

[Alex]

Yes. He's the dead one.

Then I hereby declare him the current holder of "funniest of the bunch."

[Not Afraid]

Although Strangler has known me for years, he does not know of my aversion to Python. HOW'D WE GET ANOTHER ONE? DAMNIT.

[JWBear]

Although Strangler has known me for years, he does not know of my aversion to Python. HOW'D WE GET ANOTHER ONE? DAMNIT.
It's a plot of Python fans world wide to assimulate you. Resistance is futile!

[wendybeth]

Then I hereby declare him the current holder of "funniest of the bunch."

Somehow, I get the feeling you don't care for Monty Python.

[Alex]

Well, even if I think Monty Python the funniest thing since hernia surgery you would be hard-pressed to argue that any of its former members are currently doing anything to successfully promote humor.

John Cleese, with his willingness to do anything for a paycheck is a negative force in comedy these days (when the funniest thing you've done in a decade is a TNT commercial where you hit a man in the balls with a ball you're not doing well).

Terry Gilliam is doing good things still but just not funny good things.

Eric Idle's last consistent work in comedy was as a recurring character on Suddenly Susan. When you're up against the comedic stylings of Brooke Shields and Judd Nelson it is safe to say you're not swinging for the fences.

Terry Jones hasn't had a role where the character is big enough to get a name since 2000 and that was in a Danish animated film.

Is that all of them? My comment was just a throwaway line, but now that I investigate it further, I think I'm going to have to stand by it. Graham Chapman is currently the funniest of the former Monty Python players.

[Not Afraid]

I love me a good thread derail. ;)

[wendybeth]

Yeah- way to derail a thread, Alex.

[Strangler Lewis]

Eric Idle's last consistent work in comedy was as a recurring character on Suddenly Susan.



Word is "Spamalot" was good for a laugh. You forgot Michael Palin.

[wendybeth]

Gee, I dunno. A search of the troupe's doings sort of belies Alex's statement:

Eric Idle (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Eric+idle&page=1&offset=1&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D1 ca43c519ec63fe0%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3DEric%2Bidle%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%25 2Fwww.imdb.com%252Fname%252Fnm0001385%252F%26invoc ationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Fname%2Fnm00 01385%2F)

Michael Palin (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=michael+palin&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D1 375360ee8b4372b%26clickedItemRank%3D3%26userQuery% 3Dmichael%2Bpalin%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252 F%252Fwww.imdb.com%252Fname%252Fnm0001589%252F%26i nvocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Fname%2Fnm00 01589%2F)

Terry Gilliam (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=terry+gilliam&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D1 858c884ce85db97%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3Dterry%2Bgilliam%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252 F%252Fwww.imdb.com%252Fname%252Fnm0000416%252F%26i nvocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Fname%2Fnm00 00416%2F)

John Cleese (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=John+cleese&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D1 858c884ce85dc3d%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery% 3DJohn%2Bcleese%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F% 252Fwww.imdb.com%252Fname%252Fnm0000092%252F%26inv ocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Fname%2Fnm00 00092%2F)

Terry Jones (http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=terry+jones&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3De 6aa57848046b628%26clickedItemRank%3D3%26userQuery% 3Dterry%2Bjones%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F% 252Fwww.imdb.com%252Fname%252Fnm0001402%252F%26inv ocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Fname%2Fnm00 01402%2F)

I know a few actors who would kill to have their resumes.

[Alex]

Yes, but Spamalot is just regurgitated Monty Python and we've already established around these parts that Monty Python is not funny (if I say it often enough it will become accepted truth).

I'll take your word for it that somebody named Michael Palin was once a Python. But his current career seems to be making travel shows and documentaries. It is possible that these are extremely funny as indicated by the fact that the funniest (and almost only funny) book by Douglas Adams was Last Chance to See which is essentially a travel book.

So, you've beaten me. I'll add an asterisk.

Graham Chapman: Currently the funniest formor Monty Python player*.




*Pending viewing of Michael Palin's Hemingway Adventure.

[Alex]

wendybeth, I want to be very clear. I make no claim that they are starving and lacking in means of passing the time. Simply that they aren't currently doing anything very funny.

And to keep this on topic, I'm pretty sure I heard a rumor that Eric Idle beat his children to death when one of them saw Dad cut himself on a broken glass and said "it's just a flesh wound." Query: was this violence caused by his horrible upbringing or was it a silent call for a more public discussion of the ravaging affects of alcoholism on today's youth?

[wendybeth]

Only here could a thread derail so completely.:D

(Good attempt at rerail there, Alex!)

[tracilicious]

And to keep this on topic, I'm pretty sure I heard a rumor that Eric Idle beat his children to death when one of them saw Dad cut himself on a broken glass and said "it's just a flesh wound." Query: was this violence caused by his horrible upbringing or was it a silent call for a more public discussion of the ravaging affects of alcoholism on today's youth?


And more importantly, is the violence excusable in a case like that?

[Prudence]

And more importantly, is the violence excusable in a case like that?

I think we have to accept that violence is inherent in the system.

[wendybeth]

Good one, Prudence!!!:cheers:

[katiesue]

But what about the children?

[wendybeth]

But what about the children?

Well, they'll have to be sold off for medical experiments, of course!


Unless you're Protestant, that is. *



*The statements above are derived from MP's "The Meaning of Life" and may or may not reflect the opinion of the poster.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Wow, I never expected to see this go off base so fast! From a poor defencless dead 3-year-old to Monty Python kicks. Wow. ;)

All I can add is that the mother should have protected her child. If the boyfriend cheats, beats, or hurts the kid once, they're going to do it again. Plain and simple. Odviously from her "track " record, her "Knight In Shining Armor" seems to be always "White Trash in a Wife Beater." Try to find something other that "Criminal record" in the next suiter. Maybe romantic walks along the beach perhaps???

[wendybeth]

Oh, I agree, Bornieo. There are just so many 'should haves' in this picture. I have to admit that to a certain extent I am with Traci on this one- I have always felt that those who have been abused in the past should suffer double the punishment for committing the same offense. They know how much it hurts, and for how long. No excuses allowed- the price is simply too high. And before I get flamed, let me just say that in this particular area I happen to know more than anyone should. I still say they should know better, and anyone who kills a kid is done as a human being.