Tom Sawyer Isle Getting The Axe !?

[Isaac]

From Al's latest update:


The Burbank bigwigs have Tom Sawyer Island in their sights, and if the budget gets approved later this fall that 50 year old piece of Disneyland history will go the way of the Skyway and the House of the Future. What Burbank has proposed is an ambitious plan to restructure and retheme the island into a pirate playground, where Captain Barbossa and Davy Jones would displace the less than blockbuster Huck Finn and Becky Thatcher.
The current proposal calls for over 28 million to be spent this winter rebuilding and rebranding the Tom Sawyer themed attraction. Gone would be the treehouses, trails and caves referenced in the literary works of Mark Twain and originally designed for the simpler audiences of the 1950's. In their place would be snazzier pirate themed activities designed for the kids of the 21st century who have grown up with extreme sports and Super Mario Brothers instead of barrel hoops and Tom Sawyer. The current lush wooded landscaping would also presumably be substantially altered, as tropical islands don't quite match the southern American landscape.



The article: http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al100306a.htm (http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al100306a.htm)



I hope this is not happening.

[blueerica]

WHAT?!?!

[Disneyphile]

I don't see how it can happen, because they'd also have to re-theme the RoA.... and the Mark Twain would hardly look right "sailing the Caribbean".

[Isaac]

Who's to say they'll keep the Mark Twain ? They could just keep it in dry dock, only use it for Fantasmic, and retheme the Columbia to The Black Pearl.

[Capt Jack]

ok, even I...as big a PotC fan as I am, really dont need to/want to see the entire park rethemed for one set of movies.

(even if I do think the Columbia would look great as the Black Pearl)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Oh, I hope not. What a bummer! My namesake's headstone would be removed.

That aside, it's such a nice, peaceful respite from the rest of the park, just the way it is. Dammity damn!

[Stan4dSteph]

Pirates is the it thing right now. I'm not surprised. I hardly ever go over there anyway. I didn't get the reference to Super Mario. Are they going to install video game consoles? Will it be Innoventions West?

[katiesue]

This would just suck.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I wouldn't mind an overhaul..but pirates? Geez, find something new to theme it to, you lazy asses.

[Snowflake]

No! :(

[Prudence]

I don't blame them for following the money. I'll be sad to see TSI go, but I understand why. I'm most disappointed in the underlying condition: people (in general) don't read American classics any more. Parents have griped and complained about musty ol' tomes they consider inappropriate and gosh, we have to always give kids flash and whizz-bang every single time or we'll crush their precious widdle spiwits and we've lost our history. Heck, some kids don't even know how to play in an area like the current TSI. They're so used to interactive displays and touch screens that caves are just dirty and maybe a little smelly. And I can see this is turning into a "kids these days" on my part, so I'm going to go somewhere else and feel old.

[Disneyphile]

Who's to say they'll keep the Mark Twain ? They could just keep it in dry dock, only use it for Fantasmic, and retheme the Columbia to The Black Pearl.Sssssh! Don't even give them the idea!!! :mad:

[Strangler Lewis]

The last time we were there it was closed, but I will miss it if it goes. I always liked it when I was a teenager even if it wasn't as high tech as Pong.

I don't think it's "Kids these days," so much as "Parents these days." So far, our house is GameBoy, X-Box, and Pokemon card free. It's not hard. If they ever come in, they'll be tightly controlled.

I admit to certain prejudices. When my young nephews come over, it's like pulling teeth to get a word out of them. Usually they're buried in their GameBoys. I don't know that it would be meaningfully different if they kept their nose in a book or spent the entire visit playing chess, but somehow I feel that it would.

Hello, Kitty! gives me seizures.

(Salon Kitty is another matter.)

[Gemini Cricket]

There putting too much emphasis on those films. It's overkill, just like the overkill with 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire'. They showed that show several times a week, made a park attraction of it and then what happened? People lost interest and it disappeared. Overkill!
There's too much pirates in the park as it is. Merchandise everywhere, the stage show, the enhanced ride... Ugh.
Granted the retheme would improve traffic on the island, but it's not going to last long.
The idea of getting rid of the treehouses makes me nauseous.

[wendybeth]

The last time we were there it was closed, but I will miss it if it goes. I always liked it when I was a teenager even if it wasn't as high tech as Pong.

I don't think it's "Kids these days," so much as "Parents these days." So far, our house is GameBoy, X-Box, and Pokemon card free. It's not hard. If they ever come in, they'll be tightly controlled.

I admit to certain prejudices. When my young nephews come over, it's like pulling teeth to get a word out of them. Usually they're buried in their GameBoys. I don't know that it would be meaningfully different if they kept their nose in a book or spent the entire visit playing chess, but somehow I feel that it would.

Hello, Kitty! gives me seizures.

(Salon Kitty is another matter.)
How can you resist the cuteness that is Pikachu, SL?
http://www.asia.msu.edu/Study%20Units/graphic%20for%20study%20units/original%20image/q-pikachu-dt2_upd.jpg

[Strangler Lewis]

How can you resist the cuteness that is Pikachu, SL?
http://www.asia.msu.edu/Study%20Units/graphic%20for%20study%20units/original%20image/q-pikachu-dt2_upd.jpg

Gurgle.

Swallow tongue.

Thud.

[wendybeth]

Quick, Pikachu! Apply a Lightening Strike to Strangler's chest, stat!

[Scrooge McSam]

*officially worried about Wendybeth*

[Strangler Lewis]

Quick, Pikachu! Apply a Lightening Strike to Strangler's chest, stat!

Bring it on.

[Gemini Cricket]

Here be my avatarrrr at MiceChat:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/braddoc310/barbossaisland.gif

[wendybeth]

Bring it on.


Don't make me bring in Charmander.......

[Snowflake]

Gosh, I hate to be a stick in the mud about this. My mapping logistics for DL is pretty poor, but this does bisect Frontierland, right?

Why not redo Ft. Wilderness and make that a museum to the wild west and the expanding frontier. Anything wrong with keeping or expanding the wild west theming?

Failing that, I'd vote for a Louisana Bayou Island, with maybe a partially themed pirate area, like pirate caves. A snack shop serving beignets (get rid of the McD's french fries, wildly popular as they may be) It would leave the Mark Twain a logical part of the Rivers of America and they could re-theme the Columbia with a pirate museum, in the hold.

I find the piratization idea to be a little overkill, NOS is not only about pirates.

I loved TSI as a kid, I admit it. The whole Ft. Wilderness with the guns to shoot and all the caves and the keel boats, loved it. Yes, I'm a permanent resident of Yesterland in this regard.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Here be my avatarrrr at MiceChat:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/braddoc310/barbossaisland.gif


Did you not notice? That be the same little island that we made you governor of on our last little trip

[Not Afraid]

I have to say I'm torn about this. I don't go to TSI very often part;y because it's a PITA to get to and partly because there's not much to "do" as a adult over there. If there was a nice meadow to relax in away from the maddening crowd, I may go there more often.

I would be more pleased if the area became more like Skull Rock and company at DLP. That is a great place to explore for adults and children alike. But, that whole themed area is wonderful - incorporating Swiss Family Treehouse, a Pirate Ship, the Island, and POTC.

I think what I fear most is that they will just install "off the rack" playgrond equipment and theme it with Pirate garb. The place will lose it's sense of wonder at that point. Dinoland anyone?

[Matterhorn Fan]

Just to set the record straight:

I grew up with Super Mario Bros., classic literature, AND barrel hoops, you out-of-touch Burbank executives.



TSI seems more visited at WDW (even though it's hotter on TSI in FL than it is in CA). Could it be--perhaps--because things are in great shape over there and there are things to do? We've got rifles in our fort, escape tunnels, barrel bridge, dark caves, and a place where they used to sell food but usually now don't (it's not a meadow, but it's quiet and there are rocking chairs). Hmmm....

I hope they really think this idea through (if it's something they're actually thinking about).

[mistyisjafo]

Honestly, I haven't been over on the Island in ages. Its smelly, grubby and seems themeless to me since Tom Sawyer's Island is rather out of date. I like the pirate theming. I believe the Island is do for something new!

[Gemini Cricket]

Did you not notice? That be the same little island that we made you governor of on our last little trip
Will there be rum buried somewhere then? If so, I know a few pirates on this board who would dig that.
:D

[Betty]

I know this isn't the popular opinion - but something should be done with TSI. They've cut back the island to the point where there isn't much to do...if they are going to pour some money into it I hope they do make it a new classic. I love the pirate thing myself - but that was long before the pirates movies came out. POTC won me over when I was just a kid. It's a classic in that respect. I think they have the potential to make it something really great and I really hope they do.

Something great as a pirate themed area vs. as is and not being improved?

I'll take pirates any day.

Think of how many people that land could suck up with a well done new island! Think of the fun things they could do - still using caves to store treasure in and keeping that aspect - while adding pirate treasure hunts (and RUM! :cheers: I'm not all that creative but I'm counting on them to be.

[belleh5]

Who's to say they'll keep the Mark Twain ? They could just keep it in dry dock, only use it for Fantasmic, and retheme the Columbia to The Black Pearl.


NO!! Why did you say that?!:eek: You know "they" read all the Disney message boards.

[keith - SuPeR K!]

i'm also torn on this... while i enjoy the stuff that is there and have spent half my day just getting lost in the caves, i do feel that they are correct in assuming that kids don't have any clue who tom or huck are... while i love love love pirates and most anything pirate, i'm not sure if i am ready for pirates to forever take over that huge real estate unless they were really going to do it right... i also fear the re-theming will break up the cohesiveness of end of the park...

i guess i am undecided until more information comes around...

[tracilicious]

I don't blame them for following the money. I'll be sad to see TSI go, but I understand why. I'm most disappointed in the underlying condition: people (in general) don't read American classics any more. Parents have griped and complained about musty ol' tomes they consider inappropriate and gosh, we have to always give kids flash and whizz-bang every single time or we'll crush their precious widdle spiwits and we've lost our history. Heck, some kids don't even know how to play in an area like the current TSI. They're so used to interactive displays and touch screens that caves are just dirty and maybe a little smelly. And I can see this is turning into a "kids these days" on my part, so I'm going to go somewhere else and feel old.


Honestly, this sounds really out of touch with actual "kids these days." I think some of you are getting your information from tv or something. Every time we go to TSI we see loads of kids having a blast. Lots of these kids probably play video games, and read books! The horror! Oh wait, I did the same thing when I was a kid. No wonder I turned out so poorly!

[Isaac]

What kills me about the proposal is the idea that children are too ignorant to know who is Huck Finn because they won't read a book, yet they'll know Jack Sparrow because they've been to the AMC Theater. I admit reading books is not my favorite hobby but even I know Huck & Becky. What does that say about the education of our children ? Are kids not getting a real education in school ? Are parents responsible for not picking up the slack ?

Aside from that, my other major gripe is that this retheming would make the island part of New Orleans Square, removing it from the Frontierland attraction roster. To me Tom Sawyer Island sorta helped bridge the gap between Frontierland and Critter Country. Giving the island a pirate makeover would make it look like a lost section of Adventureland. Know what I mean ?

Pirate movies may bring in big $$$ today but that doesn't mean portions of Disneyland need retheming. Disneyland has been successful without Jack Sparrow in the past and will be successful without him in the future. Rather than spend money on even more pirate crap I prefer Tom Sawyer Island be restored to it's original glory. Even if kids today don't know who the characters are, I prefer they just let their imaginations wonder rather than plug Orlando Bloom's latest movie.

Disneyland will never be complete as long as there is imagination left in the world but that may be soon if all we allow our kids to dream about is Johnny Depp, Eddie Murphy and 2-disc special edition for only $19.95.

[Prudence]

Honestly, this sounds really out of touch with actual "kids these days." I think some of you are getting your information from tv or something. Every time we go to TSI we see loads of kids having a blast. Lots of these kids probably play video games, and read books! The horror! Oh wait, I did the same thing when I was a kid. No wonder I turned out so poorly!

I "get my information" from people who work with kids and who aren't permitted to teach Tom Sawyer, in the specific, and who frequently report on a general decrease in freeform play. But it's a given that any of my sources are per se incorrect.

[Sub la Goon]

If I try to put myself back into "kid" mode, I can remember loving the stuff you could do and explore on TSI. My brother and I used to get ourselves lost from the parents for hours. Fort Wilderness was great to climb and shoot the guns and do all that crazy stuff.

But I must admit that adding pirates to the equation sounds like even more fun. The poor fort has been a ruin for a while and the latest "improvements" just seem kinda half-hearted. I just hope they keep the suspension and barrel bridges.

Throw in a couple of pirate wenches and I am totally sold! :argghh:

[SacTown Chronic]

I can't get high with N****r Jim on a fvcking pirate island.

[Alex]

One of the reasons we frequently look to Tom Sawyer Island for MouseAdventure (though rarely end up using it for various reasons) is that is a large patch of land with a relatively low density of people.

I'd heard about this proposal (though not in the detail Al offers) and I'm not going to get too worked up one way or another until the budget is funded and actual plans are in place so I know for sure what I'm complaining about. But if they really do try to pull it off in less than seven months I wouldn't have high hopes for the quality of product.

[innerSpaceman]

On the plus side ... I feel a really good Goodbye TSI meet coming on.

Remember what fun we had when we thought they were going to get rid of the Suspension Bridge??? Well, this will be 10x as fun as that!!!


Another good thing is that, if they wanna go all copy-cat cause they're rushing this thing, Disneyland Paris has an amazingly fun version of TSI that's vaguely pirate-themed.

To me, the worst part is the loss of the dirt roads. From Al's update, it sounds like wheelchair accessibility is going to be catered to ... and that means the decidely un-bucolic paved walkways of Florida's Tom Sawyer Island.

I also bemoan the loss of a Frontierland icon ... but frankly feel that it's been gone for decades anyway. The tip of the island that used to be reeds and a wheelhouse gave way to the Frontierland Stage and then the even-more-massive Fantasmic stage. The south end of the island that fronts almost all of the guest-accessible riverbend has been unfrontierlandish, to my mind, for over 20 years.

I'm all for updating things a little bit for an area that's designed for kids, but I have my misgivings about piratizing this entire area of Disneyland. Still .... they already started wrecking TSI when they eliminated all the potentially boo-boo-causing play areas, and condemned Fort Wilderness. With the devil in the details, I guess I'm willing to see what they come up with ... since the current state of Tom Sawyer Island is a pathetic shadow of its bygone glory.

[lashbear]

I'm going to have to have at least one meet at TSL in that case. I love injun joes cave ! We can pack a roll of astro-turf for NA to sit on and have a picnic !! :D

[flippyshark]

Dang, I have had so many different reactions to this today, but I keep having to remind myself that it isn't real news yet. (Until the green light is given, nothing is certain at WDCo.) If they are really looking to complete this idea in seven months, it's going to suck. On the other hand, if they take time to create something as nice as the Paris pirate area, I would be happy to give it a chance. (Will pirate-mania die out after next year? I'm betting yes.)

I do dread the hideous hodge-podge that FrontOrleansCritterPiratePoohLand could well become.

[€uroMeinke]

I'd love it if they gave it the DLP treatment - and they have to do something, half the caves are closed, as is the fort, no refreshments anymore, etc. I wonder if they could tunnel under the RoA - maybe even link criter country to the big Thunder trail that way, eliminating that dead end and better populating the island - there's be pleny of room for some DLP style fun that way. Of course, as a kid, part of the fun of TSI was the fact that you had to take a raft to get there.

[Kevy Baby]

I don't see how it can happen, because they'd also have to re-theme the RoA.... and the Mark Twain would hardly look right "sailing the Caribbean".It wouldn't be any stranger having a paddle wheeler cruising the Carribean than it is having a sailing ship of the high seas plying the Mississippi.

[mistyisjafo]

I can't imagine retheming the Mark Twain. It still works if you think about it.

Course we'll all just have to wait and see. Maybe it'll never even happen!

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I have mixed feelings. Like most of us here, I have memories of how it used to be, I miss the secret tunnel to the fort. I enjoy the lack of crowds and the views. We like to feed the ducks, early in the morning. This is another classic Disney dilemma, how do you add new things with out upsetting us old geezers. My kids love running around the place, just like I did. I think there is unrealized potential that could be tapped into, if it's done right. I hope they don't go the way NA suggested they might, with off-the-shelf equipment. I talked to my 5 year old son about it, he said he likes TSI just the way it is, probably because he's used to it. I'm sure if he grew up with the pirate themed island, he would feel the same way about it if it was changed.

[tracilicious]

What kills me about the proposal is the idea that children are too ignorant to know who is Huck Finn because they won't read a book, yet they'll know Jack Sparrow because they've been to the AMC Theater. I admit reading books is not my favorite hobby but even I know Huck & Becky. What does that say about the education of our children ? Are kids not getting a real education in school ? Are parents responsible for not picking up the slack ?


When I was in school (not all that long ago) Mark Twain was still taught in like seventh grade. I doubt you will run into any small child that has read Huck Finn. And no, I don't think kids are getting a real education in school. And I think that many parents try to pick up the slack, but with school days lasting seven hours and then an hour or more of homework, when is all the slack picking up going to happen? Only 15 minutes of every hour in school is spent on actual instruction, and the rest on classroom management/bathroom breaks etc., so teachers don't have a ton of time either. There is a ton wrong with schools, but I don't blame the kids for it. Or the parents, honestly. Most of them are just doing the best they can.

I "get my information" from people who work with kids and who aren't permitted to teach Tom Sawyer, in the specific, and who frequently report on a general decrease in freeform play. But it's a given that any of my sources are per se incorrect.

First of all, I don't know why you would say that it's a given that your sources are incorrect. I happen to disagree with you this time, but I certainly don't automatically discount your sources.

And I do agree that the mass marketing aimed at kids is harming their minds and imaginations. But, I think you need to go past video games and movies. Go to Target and try to find an open ended toy. It will be tough. Most toys are centered around characters, or are electronic in some way. You have to do your research now to find good toys whereas fifty years ago no one was pushing Dora (or Mickey) so hard on kids.

I just don't think that kids have changed much. I think they aren't being provided with enough oppportunities or stimulation, but I hardly think it's a "kids these days" issue. Or a "parents these days" issue. I think on the whole it's a lot tougher to be a parent in the age of technology. Marketing is everywhere. We don't watch TV with commercials or play with characters or wear them on our cloths, but even with all those things the marketing aimed at kids is impossible to avoid.

I definitely think someone should be attacked for this, but I think it should be Hasbro and Mattel and not the mom and dad who you see with a kid with a gameboy. Chances are they both work and perhaps don't have the time or the means to research better options. Or it may be that the kid has been at home reading classics all day and he just happens to be playing a video game now.

And I don't really care if they make it Pirate Island, but I hope they do it in a general way and not movie themed.

[scaeagles]

Some adults here in Phoenix have tried to get Twain banned from schools because he dared to use the "N" word in his writings. Who cares the theme is that racism is abhorrent, but these adults are hardly literate anyway.

Can I make a request when/if this is done? Build a freakin' bridge from the Hungry bear across to the Island and over to Frontierland. Granted there would be some problems making sore it was high enough to allow for the ships to pass, but I hate the congestion at Splash Mountain. Only one way into and out of Critter Country sucks.

[Scrooge McSam]

Can I make a request when/if this is done? Build a freakin' bridge from the Hungry bear across to the Island and over to Frontierland. Granted there would be some problems making sore it was high enough to allow for the ships to pass, but I hate the congestion at Splash Mountain. Only one way into and out of Critter Country sucks.

I was thinking tunnel (under ROA) instead of bridge, but I couldn't agree more.

[Gemini Cricket]

A tunnel or a bridge would be a huge undertaking. I doubt they will do either.

[RStar]

What kills me about the proposal is the idea that children are too ignorant to know who is Huck Finn because they won't read a book, yet they'll know Jack Sparrow because they've been to the AMC Theater. I admit reading books is not my favorite hobby but even I know Huck & Becky. .
I never read the books. Yet I know the story of Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer. How do I know them? I saw the movies. If these kids know about Jack Sparrow through movies, why can't they know Tom & Huck from them as well? In fact, wasn't the movie "Tom & Huck" a Disney movie?

Besides, a good way to get the kids to know about these stories is to promote them by having attractions at Disneyland. Rebuild the fort, add new technology and infrastructure, and better bathrooms and a store and snack area. Have a story time there so the kids get to know who they are as well. But don't ignore the island and do a half-assed rehab on it and wonder why no one goes over there.



A tunnel or a bridge would be a huge undertaking. I doubt they will do either. I thought about that as well, but then that would spoil the mystique of the "Island" if you could walk to it. Although a CM tunnel would be good for supplies and staffing if they put in more services. And a bridge would be an eyesore to the river, and a pretty big undertaking.

Also, I wonder if they could keep the Indian Village if the Island becomes part of the Caribbean?

[innerSpaceman]

Don't forget, they also need a time portal ... because the time of Caribbean piracy is NOT the time period of New Orleans Square or Frontierland.






(Oh, but Frontierland and NOS are not the same time period as each other. nevermind)

[lashbear]

Put in a tunnel and have it as a "En-Masse Secret" entrance to the fort

[Gn2Dlnd]

It wouldn't be any stranger having a paddle wheeler cruising the Carribean than it is having a sailing ship of the high seas plying the Mississippi.

Actually, the Columbia River (a River of America, don'cha know) is named for the ship which traveled up it!

From Wikipedia:
"On May 11, 1792, Captain Robert Gray became the first European to sail into the Columbia River. Gray traveled to the Pacific Northwest to trade for fur in a privately-owned vessel named Columbia; he named the river after the ship."

[Alex]

That's true (as I was forced to learn year after year in elementary school), but the Sailing Ship Columbia is named after the first American Naval ship to circumnaviate the globe. The U.S.S. Columbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Columbia_%281836%29). Also started the tradition of the Navy having a U.S.S. Columbia (there have been seven, plus the space shuttle Columbia).

[Gn2Dlnd]

There was, in fact, the first U.S.S. Columbia, but she was preceded by two other U.S. Navy ships named Columbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Columbia). One of which was captained by Robert Gray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gray) (Captain Robert Gray) who had previously captained her sister ship, the Lady Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Washington), a replica of which some of our dear readers have seen in person, and has had a featured role in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. This Columbia is, in fact, the model for the ship at Disneyland, or, as the man says, "An exact replicer of the first American vessel to completely circle the globe." I think he means by sailing, otherwise, well, let's just say that would be a pretty big ship.

[blueerica]

Well... here's the LA Times article on the rumored changes (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sawyer5oct05,1,2668579.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true)...

Still just speculation, though...

[Alex]

You know, I have a very solid memory that the plaque at the loading dock says that the ship is designed after the U.S.S. Columbia rather than Robert Gray's ship (both circumanvigated the globe, Gray's was the first to do it under U.S. flag and the Navy's was the first U.S. Navy ship to do it) but in poking around the usual sources I find that they all say I'm wrong.

Oh well. However, most of them (including Dave Smith in Disney A to Z) also say that the Columbia (whichever one) was the first ship to circumnaviate the globe, which is also wrong. That honor goes to the Victoria, the only one of Magellan's original five vessal fleet to make it all the way around the world in 1521.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Oh well. However, most of them (including Dave Smith in Disney A to Z) also say that the Columbia (whichever one) was the first ship to circumnaviate the globe, which is also wrong. That honor goes to the Victoria, the only one of Magellan's original five vessal fleet to make it all the way around the world in 1521.

In the speal on the Columbia, they say it is first US ship to circumnavigate the globe, but I think it's the first US Navy ship to circumnavigate (in 1838). According to the state of Utah, both are right: (http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2003/bills/hbillint/hcr012.htm)

"... WHEREAS, the space shuttle Columbia was named after the Boston,
Massachusetts-based sloop captained by American Robert Gray, who on May 11, 1792
maneuvered the Columbia past the dangerous sandbar at the mouth of a river extending more
that 1,000 miles through what is today south-eastern British Columbia, Canada, and the
Washington-Oregon border, which river now bears the ship's name;
WHEREAS, this same 18th century sailing vessel became the first American ship to circumnavigate the globe;
WHEREAS, the first United States Navy Ship to circle the globe also bore the name Columbia"

[Alex]

Yeah, I knew both ships circumnavigated the globe. I just had it my head that the story that it was modeled after the earlier of the two was a misconception.

Apparently I wrong. In poking around more I've found an interview with Ray Wallace, the architect behind the Sailing Ship Columbia and he is quite explicit that the Columbia Rediviva (the earlier Robert Gray ship) was the model.

[Babette]

Yesterday, on KROQ morning radio's Kevin & Bean Show they started off the Ralph's Showbiz Report with "Sad news for diehard Disneyland fans". He told about the planned changes to TSA and then went on to quote an article from a popular Disney fan website.

[innerSpaceman]

The Disneyland Columbia spiel also says the "mighty Columbia river" was named for the counterpart of the Disneyland vessel. Is that a wrongity?

[Alex]

No, as I explained above, I apparently got some incorrect information lodged in my brain (and I'm strill trying to figure out how it got in there).

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

My .02.

I don't mind changes, I just don't like dumb changes. ;)

[MickeyLumbo]

Well... here's the LA Times article on the rumored changes (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sawyer5oct05,1,2668579.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true)...

Still just speculation, though...


while no "official" announcement was made today, the front page of the portal did link to an article in The Orlando Sentinal about the rumors from "a popular fan-based web site".

:cheers:

[€uroMeinke]

No, as I explained above, I apparently got some incorrect information lodged in my brain (and I'm strill trying to figure out how it got in there).

It's one of those faux free will artifacts

[Alex]

No, this time I chose to be wrong.

[scaeagles]

I've been wrong exactly once in my life. It was back in 1988 when I thought I was wrong about something but actually wasn't.

[Gemini Cricket]

Having past experience being a captain on the Rivers of America, I should know the answers to the above, but I'm afraid I don't.

Signed,
Former Official Mark Twain Captain Brad

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Having past experience being a captain on the Rivers of America, I should know the answers to the above, but I'm afraid I don't.

Signed,
Former Official Mark Twain Captain Brad

Former Official Mark Twain Captain Brad,

It has some to our attention that your training is woefully inadequate. Please report back for further training asap.

Former Official Mark Twain Captain DreadPirateRoberts

[Gemini Cricket]

Former Official Mark Twain Captain DreadPirateRoberts,

I did not see your name in the Official Disneyland Mark Twain Log of Captains. I may just report you to our very own Gn2Dlnd Commodore Toot.

Former Official Mark Twain Captain Brad

:D

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Former Official Mark Twain Captain DreadPirateRoberts,

I did not see your name in the Official Disneyland Mark Twain Log of Captains. I may just report you to our very own Gn2Dlnd Commodore Toot.

Former Official Mark Twain Captain Brad

:D


I am the Kaiser Sose of Mark Twain Captains.

[Strangler Lewis]

I am the Kaiser Sose of Mark Twain Captains.

From the movie character spelling police: Keyser Söze

[Gn2Dlnd]

Commodore Swank recognizes both yon seamen, and has absolutely no interest in inspecting their logs.

Now where's my dinghy!

[DreadPirateRoberts]

From the movie character spelling police: Keyser Söze

That's how they want you to think it's spelled... :)

[Kevy Baby]

Now where's my dinghy!In your underwear.

[lashbear]

Commodore Swank recognizes both yon seamen, and has absolutely no interest in inspecting their logs.


Me! Me!! Pick me !!! I can do it!!