Dishwasher mayhem

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, as most of y'all know, we're replacing our kitchen counter. We're also replacing the ancient diswhasher, but we have bit of a dilemna.

The previous owners put pergo flooring in the kitchen. The flooring (and the pad underneath) was set on top of 2 layers of tile (it's like a linoleum ice-core. Kitchen floors through the decades), so there's a good inch and a half of elevation difference off the slab. That made removing the old dishwasher...challenging. Basically had to pull off the counter top and some moulding. That would make getting the new one in after the new counter is installed even more challenging.

The counter installers (who won't do any sort of plumbing) said it's cool if the dishwasher is already in place when they install. Okay, awesome, we'll get it delivered the day before.

Here's my question. Noting that I'm a total plumbing novice, is there any reason I would need to have a plumber come in to slide the dishwasher into place before the counter gets installed? i.e., does anything behind the dishwasher need to be hooked up or adjusted before sliding it in, or should I be able to have everything that needs to be hooked up accessible from underneath the sink when the plumbers come to hook the whole shebang up? Because once it's in, and once the counter is on, it won't be coming out.

I've glanced at some diy info and it LOOKS like all that would be required is attaching a hose or 2 and maybe a bit of electircal connecting. There even seems to be some "dishwasher kits" that are available with all the hoses and adapters one might need. If it's really that simple, I can definitely do that. Any one have actual experience?

[Not Afraid]

I have lots of experience calling in a professional. ;)

[DreadPirateRoberts]

So, as most of y'all know, we're replacing our kitchen counter. We're also replacing the ancient diswhasher, but we have bit of a dilemna.

The previous owners put pergo flooring in the kitchen. The flooring (and the pad underneath) was set on top of 2 layers of tile (it's like a linoleum ice-core. Kitchen floors through the decades), so there's a good inch and a half of elevation difference off the slab. That made removing the old dishwasher...challenging. Basically had to pull off the counter top and some moulding. That would make getting the new one in after the new counter is installed even more challenging.

The counter installers (who won't do any sort of plumbing) said it's cool if the dishwasher is already in place when they install. Okay, awesome, we'll get it delivered the day before.

Here's my question. Noting that I'm a total plumbing novice, is there any reason I would need to have a plumber come in to slide the dishwasher into place before the counter gets installed? i.e., does anything behind the dishwasher need to be hooked up or adjusted before sliding it in, or should I be able to have everything that needs to be hooked up accessible from underneath the sink when the plumbers come to hook the whole shebang up? Because once it's in, and once the counter is on, it won't be coming out.

I've glanced at some diy info and it LOOKS like all that would be required is attaching a hose or 2 and maybe a bit of electircal connecting. There even seems to be some "dishwasher kits" that are available with all the hoses and adapters one might need. If it's really that simple, I can definitely do that. Any one have actual experience?

I don't see why you would need a plumber. A dishwasher requires 3 connections:
1. Hot water In
2. Dirty water Out
3. Power

I normally plumb them so that you have enough extra hose to hook them up while the dishwasher is "out" and you slide the whole thing in.

I've done an install with a pergo floor, and it can be a pain. Most dishwashers have adjustable feet to level them. Measure the rough opening and see if you can get the dishwasher to slide in if you slide the adjusting feet all the way in the retracted position. It may take some angling of the dishwasher.

I'd be leery of doing an install where you can't get the dishwasher out, what will you do in 5/10 years when the dishwasher goes south? Can the new counter be raised enough to give you clearance?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'd be leery of doing an install where you can't get the dishwasher out, what will you do in 5/10 years when the dishwasher goes south? Can the new counter be raised enough to give you clearance?Unfortunately, it is what it is, and hopefully in 5-10 years it will be the new owner's problem :evil:

We'll see just how easily adjustable the new one's leveling feet are. It may turn out that they can lower it enough to allow clearance. But I'd rather not risk leaving it out before the counters are installed in case it won't go in. I'd rather have it in and ready to go, and if it'll slide out after the fact, I'll consider it a bonus.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Unfortunately, it is what it is, and hopefully in 5-10 years it will be the new owner's problem :evil:


Remember that if you decide to keep this place as the start of your real estate empire. :)

[Jughead P. Jones]

I wish I could help you out, but my two dishwashers are completely different from yours...

I call them Left Hand and Right Hand...

[Capt Jack]

I don't see why you would need a plumber. A dishwasher requires 3 connections:
1. Hot water In
2. Dirty water Out
3. Power

I normally plumb them so...

I pretty much have to agree with all of this. The two I did awhile back were done with extra lengths on each of the feeds/outgoing just so it could all be slipped in after it was completely hooked up. Just be careful not to cause a bind in any of it as youre sliding the dish hider in place.

I also wouldnt worry too much about the Pergo. Go find a few pieces that match what you have and keep them around. if anything should require you to pop part of it out, it should be a (literal) snap to replace the pieces so you could never tell. Pergo is pretty forgiving that way.

[Promo-Man]

With your base cabinets removed I would laydown some plywood to fill the void. Then when your new base cabinets are installed you will have a level floor. Note: that most times when new base cabinets are installed they don't go in the exact footprint of the old ones so you are going to have to fix your floor.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We're not installing new base cabinets, just a new counter.

[Promo-Man]

If the lip of your counter top is thick enough to hide it you might want to put in some furring strips to raise your counter top so that your dishwasher will clear the counter top. I would still try to fill the gap in the floor height if possible.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If the lip of your counter top is thick enough to hide it you might want to put in some furring strips to raise your counter top so that your dishwasher will clear the counter top. I would still try to fill the gap in the floor height if possible.
Of course leveling the floor would be ideal, but simply not feasible at this point. And the counter edge is bullnose, so it does't exten bellow the level of the counter. Now, it may be that the new counter sits a little and we can get away with it, but at this point it's a crap shoot and the safest thing for me to do to guarantee an installed diswhasher is to get it hosed up and into place before the counters go in. Yes, the best thing to do would be start from scratch to be sure it can be removed in the future, but time and budget concerns at paramount at this point.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Now, it may be that the new counter sits a little and we can get away with it, but at this point it's a crap shoot and the safest thing for me to do to guarantee an installed diswhasher is to get it hosed up and into place before the counters go in.

GD, after the dishwasher is installed, will you have access to its water valve, so you could isolate it, should a hose burst or leak (without removing the counter)?

We maybe overthinking this, I bet the dishwasher will fit. Did you ever get a chance to take a measurement of the proposed opening?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, the cutoff valve is under the sink, access shouldn't be a problem.

Considering that I don't have the dishwasher yet, no, I haven't done measurements. Once the unit arrives, I'll do some eyballing to see if I might be able to get away with it...but I'll still put the thing in first. The absolute worst thing would be to assume it'll slide in post-counter only to find out it won't. I'd rather worry about how to get it out 7 years later when I'm leaving than how to get it in when I'm going to have to live with it for 7 years.

[Alex]

And if it won't come out later, you just completely dismantle it through destructive force with it still in place.

Also had to remove a couch once (it came with the apartment and then we bought a new one) where the easiest thing to do was tear it to pieces in our living room and take it out as lumber and springs (we have no idea how they got it into the arpartment to begin with, which is why it came with the apartment).

[Tramspotter]

Best install if the counters are standard hight from the top new floor and not the slab.

Use thinset and wonderboard not plywood to level the floor if you go that way. Diamond blade on a 4" grinder scores it nice so you can break it off to fit. Thinset Needs 24 hours to dry before full streangth though. You would need two 1/2 " pieces but you could cut them out of one 4 X 8 if the dimensions work out. Just keep the two layers of mud to 1/2" and your all set.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Best install if the counters are standard hight from the top new floor and not the slab.Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've already said that that's not an option. The base cabinets are staying as is and the counter edge would leave any sort of shim or furring strips that would raise the counter by the necessary 1.5" or so visible. So, once again, I'm left with very little option other than to make due with what I've got.

[Betty]

What if you install a little bit of base board or some sort of trim that would cover the edge and at least camoflauge it a bit. I know nothing about construction and floors - but I do know a bit about cabinetry and molding - so I have no idea if that's even feasable with that thinset and wonderboard stuff (again, I have no idea what that is.)

[Tramspotter]

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've already said that that's not an option. The base cabinets are staying as is and the counter edge would leave any sort of shim or furring strips that would raise the counter by the necessary 1.5" or so visible. So, once again, I'm left with very little option other than to make due with what I've got.

So you have a non-standard countertop hight or it was standard but net to the concrete slab? So the whole line of basecabs sit on slab too is that correct?

And your countertop guys can"t face in a nice matching strip of wood to bring the counter up to standard hight? what kind of counter are you getting laminate, tile, solid surface (ie corian) granite/marble?

If your dishwasher/trashcompactor whatever ****s the bed the world of hurt to replace anything but laminate. And if its a nice install for the latter materials they should raise you up with furring and a nice faceboard that matches your installed wood. A laminated facia board woulden't be that big a deal either if they are doing the laminating carpentry on site, if prebuilt perhaps a bigger deal. The leveling of the floor isn't their problem but if installing a counter they should be able to raise it more so if its custom made in anyway. then you can level the floor and install the dishwasher or whatever else at your leisure.

[Kevy Baby]

I wish I could help you out, but my two dishwashers are completely different from yours...

I call them Left Hand and Right Hand...So, you have a digital dishwasher?

[Ghoulish Delight]

So you have a non-standard countertop hight or it was standard but net to the concrete slab? So the whole line of basecabs sit on slab too is that correct?

And your countertop guys can"t face in a nice matching strip of wood to bring the counter up to standard hight? what kind of counter are you getting laminate, tile, solid surface (ie corian) granite/marble?

If your dishwasher/trashcompactor whatever ****s the bed the world of hurt to replace anything but laminate. And if its a nice install for the latter materials they should raise you up with furring and a nice faceboard that matches your installed wood. A laminated facia board woulden't be that big a deal either if they are doing the laminating carpentry on site, if prebuilt perhaps a bigger deal. The leveling of the floor isn't their problem but if installing a counter they should be able to raise it more so if its custom made in anyway. then you can level the floor and install the dishwasher or whatever else at your leisure.Yes, all of that could be done, but as I also said elsewhere, time and budget are primary considerations at this point. We're already over budget and off schedule on this install, any custom modifications (and we're going through Home Depot, so I can't even guaratnee the lazy/litigation-fearing twerps will do it) are out of the question.

All I want to do is have the counter installed and the dishwasher where it should be. And all I needed to know is if there's anything other than hooking a few hoses and a power cord up to feed through under the sink before sliding it into place. If not, then my problems are solved.

[jdramj]

What brand are you getting? Is there adjusting feet on it? You might find that you are just fine. If height is a concern after the countertops are in, I know that Maytag has a better reputation for fitting in better than any other brand, assuming you are concerned about 5-10 years out (I did see your comment about your hopes that it is the "new" owners problems then).

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's a GE. I believe it does have adjustment feet. I presume that the rear ones would be accessible somehow even after the unit has been slid in??

[Not Afraid]

I know! Install hydrolics so that the thing can be lowered and raised on command. Maybe you can modify one of those penis pumps.

Damn, I'm brilliant. ;)

[Tramspotter]

It's a GE. I believe it does have adjustment feet. I presume that the rear ones would be accessible somehow even after the unit has been slid in??

I woulden't presume it. Cheapo ones will just be screws with feet on them very (inaccessible) once your all installed with counter over top and built up floor covering the gap to the floor

Some very nice appliances have long screws that go to the rear and a gimble which changes the direction on the force to the rear feet so you can do it all from the front. You can put it in measure it and take it back out to level it off.

Good luck

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I know! Install hydrolics so that the thing can be lowered and raised on command. Maybe you can modify one of those penis pumps.

Damn, I'm brilliant. ;)

Yeah! make it hop like a lowrider around the kitchen.

[Drince88]

When they installed my new dishwasher, replacing the original-to-the-house-avocado-green one, the plumber/installer did have to do some extra stuff because the drain line in the new dishwasher was differently placed than the avocado green one. (Not that the color is important, but it does pretty accurately date the old dishwasher ;) )