View Full Version : 300,000,000
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 06:01 AM
Ok, that's it. There are three hundred million of you out there now and I need to have a little chat with about 289,000,000 or so of you....
It is no longer 1960. Gone are the carefree days of old where you could take you own sweet time with everything ok? Now here in the O's there are people in line behind you. Always, everywhere, no matter what you are doing. At the grocery store, get your credit card out and swipe it WHILE the checker is scanning your groceries. Do NOT wait until everything is scanned and then start digging in your wallet or purse for it. On the highway, keep up with the person in front of you and for god's sake turn right on red when there is no traffic coming from your left. Also when making a left, it's OK to pull out into the intersection while waiting for traffic to clear. Remember we are all in this together and you need to step up your game. Thank you.
scaeagles
10-17-2006, 06:42 AM
I was having a chat at work about cultural differences in terms of personal space and general tempo.
One guy is from NJ where you don't look at people, keep a certain amount of space between you, and if you aren't moving fast enough, everyone behind you lets you know it loud and clear.
Another guy is from the outskirts Atlanta and it is completely the opposite. Southern mentality....slow pace, ultra friendly, and if you don't greet everyone you see you are considered to be rude. No one much seems to care how long something takes. My father in law, who spent a large portion of his life in Hawaii, said it's pretty much the same there.
Yet another is from South Africa, where apparently there is not much of a concept of personal space. Think Seinfeld "close talker" episode.
It's amazing how this varies by region and country. I find myself to be more like Moonliner described (having grown up in CA).
Cadaverous Pallor
10-17-2006, 07:46 AM
Yet another is from South Africa, where apparently there is not much of a concept of personal space. Think Seinfeld "close talker" episode.Interesting - my mom is from SA and in my visit there I didn't sense this. Granted, I was 14 at the time and probably far too distracted by the racial relations down there to notice anything else.
Easy-going, slow-moving strangers that want to tell you their life stories bug the sh.t out of me. Get out of my face and get a move on! :p
innerSpaceman
10-17-2006, 07:53 AM
Hahaha, to the New Yorker in me, So. Cal is about as mellow as I can handle.
Now, move it, granny ... that means you!.
Always, everywhere, no matter what you are doing. At the grocery store, get your credit card out and swipe it WHILE the checker is scanning your groceries.
It's funny. 20 years ago we bitched because the person didn't start writing their check until after everything was wrung up. This took a 2 minute payment transaction and turned it into a 4 minute payment transaction.
Now that a 20 second payment transaction is turned into a 40 second payment transaction by similar thoughtlessness we still bitch just as much.
In a decade when instanteous debiting is widely available we'll probably bitch just as much at the person who is too slow and makes 5 seconds take 8.
I'm more in the opposite direction. I hate having to make small talk with strangers but otherwise am pretty laid back about such things. The more you're in a hurry the slower it feels like you're getting there. If I get stuck behind a slow car in the fast lane, oh well, they'll move eventually. As things get crowded I think we need to be become more tolerant of the standard deviation in human behavior because we are more likely to run into the extremes, not increase the pressure for everybody to conform, which just increases the tension.
The other day at Safeway I ended up in line behind a woman from Europe somewhere who was experiencing some confusion about how to pay for with her credit card and there were communication problems that caused more delay. I swear, if the guy behind me in line had a nuclear bomb he would have used it to release the anger he was feeling at this horrible injustice to his time.
Plus, if you honk at me for not driving the way you want me to drive (which generally isn't entirely legal or safe), I guarantee I'm about to make your live much worse. Flash your highbeams at me because I'm passing someone on 5 at 85 miles per hour rather than your preferred 187 miles per hour and I'm likely to experience a sudden loss of power that results in me exactly matching the speed of the car I'm passing. It could take several miles to resolve depending on how insistant you are.
sleepyjeff
10-17-2006, 09:22 AM
I was at Safeway the other day too. I had only 4 items and was just hopping into the fast lane when some guy with a crazed look about him shows me his 1 item and pretty much jumps in front of me(I guess he just assumed that since he only had one item it was ok to line jump....whatever). He gets up to the cashier, starts rapping his fingers rapidly on the counter and asks her, not too nicely, "where are the .33 cent candy bars?" She tells him and he leaves the line, comes back with 6 bars(he was quick, but still...:mad: )
Piece of work.
Bornieo: Fully Loaded
10-17-2006, 09:30 AM
I wonder if they specified who the 3 millionth person was? And did they get a free churro?
Nephythys
10-17-2006, 09:31 AM
bwa ha ha!
I hear there is a birth ever 5-6 minutes- but what is the death rate?
You heard wrong. The US Census statistic is a birth every 7 seconds and a death every 13.
What I've hated about the 300,000,000 is that news agencies don't seem to understand (or don't care to convey) the difference between a statistical probably and an actual event.
So on the news last night I had to hear about how the 300,000,000th American would be a white boy born in Los Anges County this morning. Hell, they probably staked out the hospitals so that they could see if a star shined over the annointed one.
They have no idea exactly how many people there are in the country and when or where the 300,000,000th was born. It is a statistical model. When they did the 2000 census they found that their statistical model was off by 7 million people though they've since made changes to improve it, as we get farther away from the decennial census it becomes a fuzzier picture.
As an interesting aside, if I fly to Iraq tomorrow I will still count as one of the 300,000,000. But when a serviceman (such as my brother-in-law) is deployed to Iraq s/he is removed from the rolls until returned to the States. So we would have hit 300,00,000 a couple months earlier if it hadn't been for the massive deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. So think of those wars as Bush's pandering to the anti-population growth people.
Nephythys
10-17-2006, 10:02 AM
The 5-6 minutes may have been a Colorado #- a birth every 5-6 minutes here.
From 2005 (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/vs/2005/Colorado_2005.pdf) Colorado live birth and death numbers:
68,922 births
29,521 deaths
That is a birth every 7 minutes, 40 seconds. A death every 17 minutes, 48 seconds.
The ratio of births to deaths is 2.2:1 much higher than the national average of 1.85:1.
Prudence
10-17-2006, 10:58 AM
Hahaha, to the New Yorker in me, So. Cal is about as mellow as I can handle.
It could be worse - you could be up here in the feel-good PacNW where we're forbidden to ever make someone feel uncomfortable by asking them to respect boundaries.
Like my new cubemate, for example, who is so traumatized by her move from the lofty heights of office world to our lowly cube farm that we are not to ask her to stop humming along with her iPod All. Damn. Day. In fact, rather than inconvenience her but asking her to behave like a proper cube dweller, we will permit her to build her own little office of sorts with double-high cube walls and a "door" right in front of our shared window, thus blocking all our light and breeze (no AC). Because she wants it, and we can't say no because then she might not be our bestest friend any more!
No, conflict anywhere can not be tolerated, so whatever someone wants you have to give them. Otherwise you're infringing on their rights.
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 10:58 AM
Now that a 20 second payment transaction is turned into a 40 second payment transaction by similar thoughtlessness we still bitch just as much.
Let's see...
20 Waisted seconds per transaction
With say an average of 6 lines per store
open twelve hours per day
with an average of 5min/check out
at 445,110 (http://www.answers.com/topic/grocery-store-1)grocery stores nationwide
(((12*60)/5)*6*20)*445,110 = ~243 Years / day waisted in this country by people too lazy and inconsiderate of others to simpley pay attention. That's more than the lifetime of Walt Disney, MLK, and Bob Bell combined.
sleepyjeff
10-17-2006, 11:07 AM
It could be worse - you could be up here in the feel-good PacNW where we're forbidden to ever make someone feel uncomfortable by asking them to respect boundaries.
It's funny cuz it's true:)
You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Prudence again.
And that's not very much. More time is probably wasted every day by a moment of indecision as to whether McDonald's or Burger King will be the lunchtime destination.
But yes, when you are the one that has to way 243 years to buy your groceries then I can understand you being upset. When you only have to wait an extra 20 seconds you should simply calm down, relax, at enjoy the world around you. The potato chips won't go stale in the extra 20 seconds it takes you to get them home.
And your 243 years number is horribly inflated by the assumption that every transaction has this unacceptable delay built into it, which is not remotely true, but if it were then it becomes the societal norm and you are being even more unreasonable in getting upset.
It is also inflated because the page you link says there are 163,000 grocery stores in the United States, not 445,110. Add in 81,900 convenience stores, 56,700 superettes, and 80,600 specialty food stores (such as butchers) and you still have only 382,200. Correct for these inflated numbers and it seems there is even less to complain about.
It could be worse - you could be up here in the feel-good PacNW where we're forbidden to ever make someone feel uncomfortable by asking them to respect boundaries.
My Pacific Northwest training must have been inadequate then because I would have no problem at all telling her to knock it off.
sleepyjeff
10-17-2006, 11:19 AM
You Vantuckians have always been a bit different.
Prudence
10-17-2006, 11:30 AM
My Pacific Northwest training must have been inadequate then because I would have no problem at all telling her to knock it off.
I still have a little soupçon of east coast left in me and thus I was able to tell the woman who was singing last week - not humming, but singing, loudly - to knock it off. (and she looked at me like I'd grown a second head, as clearly no one had ever asked her to curtail anything she felt like doing ever.) But there's not much I can do when the office manager arranges for facilities to wall off our window.
Yesterday my east coast granules had the day off so I engaged in properly authorized PacNW passive aggressive techniques. (Specifically, using my headphones that bleed sound and playing Disney themepark music. Guaranteed to drive the non-fan crazy.)
Prudence
10-17-2006, 11:33 AM
It's funny cuz it's true:)
Can I get an "Amen"? But not too loudly, because we wouldn't want to make any non-believers uncomfortable by forcing them to acknowledge that religious beliefs exist.
If you truly wanted to avoid discomfort you'd simply stop having religious beliefs.
Give me your co-workers office number. I'll call her and ask her to kindly stop humming along to her iPod. It will be untracable.
sleepyjeff
10-17-2006, 11:43 AM
Funny stuff you guys!
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 12:08 PM
It is also inflated because the page you link says there are 163,000 grocery stores in the United States, not 445,110.
Oops, my bad. I read the NAICS code number as the count. I stand corrected.
you should simply calm down, relax
Interesting. So far all I've done is request, in a considerate way, that people to pay attention to their surroundings. I've never made someones life "much worse" becuase they were slow in the checkout line. Do you just assume that everyone is as militaristic in their reactions as you seem to be? As far as I can tell you are the only one flipping out by suggesting it's OK to block traffic (in apparent disregard to how many others might be effected) and threatening to make peoples life "much worse" in response to minor indiscretions. Perhaps your "calm down" advice would be more appropriate if aimed in a sightly different direction?
Oh, I'm always calm about it, I'm probably the least excitable driver you'll ever encounter.
And I don't think I am making their life much worse, they think I am making their life much worse. Also, when I'm already going 15 miles over the speed limit, I don't consider myself to be blocking traffic, and if you want to go faster than me I'll happily move over as soon as I finish passing. It is only when one insists that I move as fast one wants me to move that it is necessary to remind one that there are worse things in the world than politely waiting for someone.
You're the one so bothered by 20 wasted seconds, be it at the cash register or the stop light, that you needed to post about it. It not only bothers you at the moment, but apparently well after the fact. So much so that when someone suggests you just not be bothered by it that you have to try to spin it up into a much larger sociological problem with a catastrophic impact on the GDB and shortening the lifespan of American heroes.
It must be difficult to live with the constant aggravation of people not behaving exactly the way you want them to. However, if you aren't bothered by the minor delay, then the advice obviously isn't directed at you but rather the people who waste time complaining about the minor inconveniences of life.
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 01:20 PM
Oh, I'm always calm about it, I'm probably the least excitable driver you'll ever encounter.
And I don't think I am making their life much worse, they think I am making their life much worse. Also, when I'm already going 15 miles over the speed limit, I don't consider myself to be blocking traffic, and if you want to go faster than me I'll happily move over as soon as I finish passing. It is only when one insists that I move as fast one wants me to move that it is necessary to remind one that there are worse things in the world than politely waiting for someone.
You're the one so bothered by 20 wasted seconds, be it at the cash register or the stop light, that you needed to post about it. It not only bothers you at the moment, but apparently well after the fact. So much so that when someone suggests you just not be bothered by it that you have to try to spin it up into a much larger sociological problem with a catastrophic impact on the GDB and shortening the lifespan of American heroes.
It must be difficult to live with the constant aggravation of people not behaving exactly the way you want them to. However, if you aren't bothered by the minor delay, then the advice obviously isn't directed at you but rather the people who waste time complaining about the minor inconveniences of life.
Ahh I see. So it's OK to screw with other people by doing such things as deliberately slowing down next to another car and blocking all traffice as long as you stay calm. Right-o. I'm sure the world would be a very different place if everyone followed that type of advice.
If on the other hand people would do as I ask, and simply keep their minds on where they are and what they are doing I wounder what difference that would make in the world.
None, except you'd not be so angry. Do you really think you're life would be better if you got through the grocery line 20 seconds faster? Princess, meet the pea.
Also, I didn't say my behavior is ok so long as I stay calm, just that I am calm, in opposition to your claim otherwise. My level of agitation has no impact whatever on the appropriateness of my behavior. Similarly, your level of agitation has nothing whatsoever to do with the appropriateness of when someone decides to take the check card out of their wallet.
And I certainly don't hold up traffic. If there are other people behind the jerkishly impatient person then I move on as I originally intended.
Ghoulish Delight
10-17-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm with Alex on this one, Moonie. I don't reward people for being impatient jerks. If someone's riding my ass in an attempt to get me to get out of their way, I'm not going to just roll over and let them. I will continue to drive calmly as I am driving (usually, as Alex, already over the speed limit). If they want to freak out, that's their problem. If someone's flailing their arms, mouthing obscenities, and hitting their horn because I coasted up to the set of brake lights in front of me rather than gunned the accelerator in bumper-to-bumper traffic, I'm not going to then lurch forward like they want me to the next time. Perhaps they'll figure out that going 10 feet at 20 mph only to stop isn't going to save them time, perhaps not. But I'm not going to waste gas and brake life to make them happy.
On the flip side, I will admit to an occasional bit of impatience while waiting in line, though I'm usually far more impatient when the result of the hold up is an employee who's too incompetent to their job efficiently vs. a customer who can't always be expected to know a store's procedure (do I slide my club card first? do I sign the screen or a real recipt? do I sign at all?).
Strangler Lewis
10-17-2006, 01:32 PM
I was having a chat at work about cultural differences in terms of personal space and general tempo.
One guy is from NJ where you don't look at people, keep a certain amount of space between you, and if you aren't moving fast enough, everyone behind you lets you know it loud and clear.
Another guy is from the outskirts Atlanta and it is completely the opposite. Southern mentality....slow pace, ultra friendly, and if you don't greet everyone you see you are considered to be rude. No one much seems to care how long something takes. My father in law, who spent a large portion of his life in Hawaii, said it's pretty much the same there.
Yet another is from South Africa, where apparently there is not much of a concept of personal space. Think Seinfeld "close talker" episode.
It's amazing how this varies by region and country. I find myself to be more like Moonliner described (having grown up in CA).
With that in mind, stop me if you've heard this one:
An Israeli, a Russian, an Ethiopian and an American were walking down the street: A pollster stops them, saying "Excuse me, what is your opinion of the meat shortage?"
The American says, "What's a shortage?"
The Ethiopian says, "What's meat?"
The Russian says, "What's an opinion?"
The Israeli says, "What's 'Excuse me.'?"
You can probably substitute the South African for the Israeli.
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 01:41 PM
I'm with Alex on this one, Moonie. I don't reward people for being impatient jerks.... "
A quite resonable response, but tell me in response to an aggresive driver would you "guarantee I'm about to make your live much worse" or "experience a sudden loss of power that results in me exactly matching the speed of the car I'm passing" and would you "take several miles" to express your anger feelings?
Not Afraid
10-17-2006, 01:46 PM
An agressive drive can go around me. It's their heart attack, not mine.
Ghoulish Delight
10-17-2006, 01:47 PM
A quite resonable response, but tell me in response to an aggresive driver would you "guarantee I'm about to make your live much worse" or "experience a sudden loss of power that results in me exactly matching the speed of the car I'm passing" and would you "take several miles" to express your anger feelings?If they're being sufficiently jerky, yes I've been known to be purposefully obstinant.
What is the reasonable response to unreasonable impatience?
Does it matter that it is something I have only done twice in my life in response to stupendously assholish behavior?
As I said, by forcing a driver to slow down (but still be speeding) for a few minutes, I don't think I am actually making their life worse, just that they will think I am making their life worse.
Will you tell me that you've never been driving on the long boring stretch of I-5 (or some other two lane freeway) and been passing traffic on the left only to have some guy come speeding up in the right lane to try and squeeze in between you and the car you are passing? You've never sped up just a little bit to make sure he won't make it?
And if we're both (me and the othe driver) are being jerks, then why are you so bothered by my side of it?
Strangler Lewis
10-17-2006, 01:53 PM
Maybe it's how I'm wired, but I never felt the need for speed as a driver.
Even as a teenager.
Drunk or sober.
Not Afraid
10-17-2006, 02:06 PM
Maybe it's how I'm wired, but I never felt the need for speed as a driver.
That's because the Justy couldn't make it past 60 mph. ;)
Strangler Lewis
10-17-2006, 02:19 PM
That's because the Justy couldn't make it past 60 mph. ;)
The Justy made it over the Grapevine to San Francisco packed with belongings and two sedated cats. It reached speeds of nearly 75 in the flats. In San Francisco, it easily (ok, eventually) made it up almost every hill. Most importantly, it was never broken into.
The Duster was what I mostly drove in high school, then later, the Volare wagon. The Duster rattled violently when it got to around 85, and it overheated frequently.
Moonliner
10-17-2006, 02:27 PM
And if we're both (me and the othe driver) are being jerks, then why are you so bothered by my side of it?
What makes you think your driving record matters to me at all? You brought the subject up when you broadened the topic of this tread from “Hey people please pay attention” to “What annoys me”. OK, you don’t like aggressive drivers. Check. I won’t bother to take a poll to see how many people support that view.
And, No. I’m not fixated on lines at grocery stores. I was just giving an example most people could relate to in order to make my point. I could as easily have used ordering at fast food chains (decide before you get to the counter), ticket booths at theme parks, ATM’s, or a thousand other similar situations. I am also not really expecting 289,000,000 people to read this thread, slap their heads and say “Doh! Of course I should pay more attention”. And one more time, No. This is not a thread of earth shaking importance like some we have had here. I’m not expressing darkly repressed feeling or ultimate truths. I’m not trying to bend you or the rest of society to my will, I’m just trying to make people think a bit about what they are doing and it looks like I’ve done that. At least in one case.
Ghoulish Delight
10-17-2006, 02:39 PM
And, No. I’m not fixated on lines at grocery stores. I was just giving an example most people could relate to in order to make my point. I could as easily have used ordering at fast food chains (decide before you get to the counter), ticket booths at theme parks, ATM’s, or a thousand other similar situations. I am also not really expecting 289,000,000 people to read this thread, slap their heads and say “Doh! Of course I should pay more attention”. I think Alex's point is that when it comes to making the world a better place, you'll have much more luck focusing on your own behavior than worrying about the behavior of others. i.e., instead of hoping and praying that the annoying people who can't decide until they're standinga the McDonald's register will change their ways...try just not being annoyed by it. Instead of hoping that everyone who drives slower than you vanish from the road, just try not being annoyed by slow drivers. I strive to follow such a philosophy. If it's not in the realm of my control, there's no sense in being annoyed by it. And, when it comes to the kind of "I'm completely unaware of my surroundings" annoyances you describe, pointing them out to the offender rarely accomplishes a thing since, by and large, a certain lack of the ability to be self-aware (and thus alter their behavior) is what leads them to be fumbling for their ATM card to begin with.
Strangler Lewis
10-17-2006, 03:24 PM
I think you all overestimate the ability of people to function in society. I pick up prescriptions at Long's on a regular basis for asthma and allergies. I am usually in line behind the elderly and those on the edge. Every single one of these people has a problem with their prescription, their insurance, etc. I also spend a lot of time in Kinko's and at the post office. My nightmare day will be to see the same old lady hogging a machine while she seeks help with copying a letter and then wind up behind her in line at the post office while she ruminates over which stamp to buy.
That said, I don't think we should too readily concede the propriety of living in a fast paced society. The absolute worst drivers on the road are people who drive for a living, be they cab drivers, plumbers or bike messengers. They drive like that because s*** flows downhill, and they need the money for necessities or, perhaps, tattooes and ass waxing. I hesitate to say that someone's hamster wheel is not spinning fast enough. It also goes without saying that if people didn't buy half the crap in their baskets, everyone would be out of the store in half the time. I'm resigned to gobbling my lunch at my desk like a dog, but any day that winds up at McDonald's is a failure.
katiesue
10-17-2006, 03:46 PM
I'm excessively impatient. And stupid people annoy the heck out of me. But I do reailze that most people aren't doing it on purpose just to destroy my day.
That said, the people who make me the most bonkers are the inconsiderate ones. If you forgot to pick up something and you're already checking out then put the groceries in your car and go back for the missing item. Don't hold up the whole line. If you realize at the last minute you need to make a left on Elm instead of a right, don't try to cut across 4 lanes of traffic and block two. Go down and make a U-turn and go back. And if you're doing 45 in the fast lane get the he-double-hockey-sticks out of my way!
Yes, GD said it better than me but that was the point of my first post in this thread.
As things get crowded I think we need to be become more tolerant of the standard deviation in human behavior because we are more likely to run into the extremes, not increase the pressure for everybody to conform, which just increases the tension.
The rest that followed and led us down a horrible, emotionally painful path, was just meandering ponderings on unreasonable impatience and how frequently impatience just makes things even worse, both perceptually (just ask MouseAdventurers just how awkward and slow the crowd seems when hurrying for a quest versus the rest of the time) and realisically (by inspiring obstinance in those you're trying conform to your preferences).
So, Monorails advice to an increasingly crowded society was to be more aware of how you can make the the cogs of social interactions work faster. I can agree with that, and in all the things he mentioned I am confident he would find me a model citizen. But I think the more valuable advice is that when a person doesn't do that, learn how to go with the flow without stressing on it.
SzczerbiakManiac
10-17-2006, 04:30 PM
If you realize at the last minute you need to make a left on Elm instead of a right, don't try to cut across 4 lanes of traffic and block two. Go down and make a U-turn and go back.SING IT SISTER!
That behavior drives me freaking BATTY! Come on Mr/Ms Bonehead, an extra block isn't going to kill you, but your dip-shït maneuver just might kill someone else!
tracilicious
10-17-2006, 05:01 PM
I'm going to have to agree with GD and Alex here. Getting annoyed over a few seconds (or even a few minutes) seems silly. Big deal if they get their card out before or after their stuff rings up. I try to plan my activities so that the extra 20 seconds won't make me unreasonably late for anything. Better to be pleasant and focus on enriching others lives than be grumpy and spoil your own mood.
€uroMeinke
10-17-2006, 07:40 PM
300 Million - well Hell, I think we need to go to China or India and do some benchmarking on their populations to make sure we're scalable.
Kevy Baby
10-17-2006, 08:29 PM
Plus, if you honk at me for not driving the way you want me to drive (which generally isn't entirely legal or safe), I guarantee I'm about to make your live much worse. Flash your highbeams at me because I'm passing someone on 5 at 85 miles per hour rather than your preferred 187 miles per hour and I'm likely to experience a sudden loss of power that results in me exactly matching the speed of the car I'm passing. It could take several miles to resolve depending on how insistant you are.I usually have a sudden desire to test the effectiveness of my braking system.
Prudence
10-17-2006, 11:19 PM
I usually get my car out of the way, as I've had the unpleasant experience of suddenly realizing that another motorist in a much larger vehicle is actually trying to force my car off the road - and into a concrete retaining wall. At freeway speed.
wendybeth
10-18-2006, 12:01 AM
Guns are real fun as well, Prudence. Let's just say I don't flip people off quite as frequently as I used to....
sleepyjeff
10-18-2006, 12:05 AM
There was a made for tv movie(name escapes) I saw some 20-25 years ago in which a man had a child(I am not even sure if the child was a boy or girl) who had a terminal disease. In the childs last hours a request was made for a bottle of soda. The man went to the store, frantically looked for the beverage, finally found it and then got into line. The woman in front of him saw that he was in a hurry and deliberately took longer to finish her transaction in order to teach him a lesson in patience(she didnt say anything to him, but it was implied that this is what she was doing)....a lesson he didn't need for he said not a word to her.
It was just a movie I had totally forgotten until this thread. Not likely that someone your holding up on purpose is in any kind of similar situation but still...................
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