Faulty seatbelts, fear, and car seats forever?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I watched this with the sound off and I really don't think I could bear to watch it again. Watch it however you will, or skip it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ

Don't you hate it when people send you forwards because they're scared and they want you to be equally scared? It's like those prank videos that scare you but people keep passing on the annoyance.

Here are my reactions to this video:

1. Seatbelts FAIL? No one ever told me this. I was forced to watch many informative scary videos in elementary school and no one ever said that seatbelts sometimes unlatch in collisions. I feel lied to.

2. Keep them in carseats for as long as you can....so are we saying that children can't risk death and injury but adults can? How come I don't get a f'n 5-point seatbelt?

While I'm on that rant...rear-facing carseats are now known as far more safe than forward-facing ones. They advocating to keep kids facing backwards as long as possible as well. Doesn't this mean that rear-facing seats for everyone would be far more safe? Shouldn't we be shaking in our boots because we're facing forwards? Shouldn't we be demanding to have our view entirely blocked, same as the kids' view?



Look, I'm not saying these people's story isn't tragic. It is. It's f'n heartbreaking. But all this safety crap doesn't make me want to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on carseats. It just proves to me that the rest of us adults are not going to put up with time-consuming safety restraints for us but we'll take forever to "protect the children". And that's just stupid.

Either we care about safety or we don't. Either we take time to be safe or we don't, regardless of age.

Anyone else have random thoughts on this stuff?

[innerSpaceman]

I think it's a perfectly mammalian impulse to offer special protections to children, unable to defend themselves and more than usually susceptable to death.


I know what you mean about the bleh of the ubiquitous "for the sake of the children." I'm sick of it, and would like most things in this world to be geared for adults ... with parents solely responsible for protecting their kids. But it's simply a mainstay of the custodial (motherly) role to protect offspring uber alis.

[Prudence]

Sometimes I think we have an unrealistic expectation of perfect safety. There's an idea that if we just follow the rules, nothing will happen to us. If we wear our seatbelts, make sure our smoke detectors work, and keep our kids from ever setting eyes on a peanut, nothing will happen to us or our families.

There are no perfect safety mechanisms that I'm aware of. Seatbelts fail. Sometimes people would have been better off if the seatbelt had failed.

I think the bigger problem is the assumption of safety. We trust that our seatbelts will save us and we don't do any research until after. We trust that other drivers will be coherent and act in their own best interest.

The best way to keep kids from being killed in car accidents is to keep them out of cars. Are we prepared to do that? And if we do that, keep them at home, what about the drunk drivers who crash into homes? Move far away from roads? But then frozen airplane waste could come crashing through the roof. The list of possibilities seems endless. The only way to ensure that nothing ever happens to your kids is to never have kids.

[Alex]

It's a tragic story (if it isn't viral marketing for the car seat; sorry to be cynical but a quick search indicates that the only ones saying seatbelt failure is common are PI lawyers).

Obviously I'm not a parent so it might all change if I were to become one, but this is true on other topics as well: You take reasonable precautions and sometimes **** happens. Reducing risk to zero is a fool's chase and most people suck at honestly evaluating risk and spend huge amounts of time, money, and worry avoiding relatively small risks while walking right into much larger ones.

Ran into this thread (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=8406) about the video at car-seat.org. Post #15, particularly, is of some interest (and the whole thread lays to rest the viral marketing concern).

[tracilicious]

I think that enough people are non-chalant about carseats to the point that they would put a very small baby in a forward facing seat in the front seat that carseat laws and campaigns are necessary.

Babies don't have the same muscle control of their necks, making rear facing seats very very necessary. In a wreck a four month old in a forward facing carseat would suffer much more injury than an eighteen month old in the same seat in the same wreck. Since some parents might look at their six month old that can now sit up and crawl and assume incorrectly that they would be safe in a forward facing seat, I think education campaigns are a good thing.

The recommendation is rear facing until one year old and 20 lbs, and as long after that as possible. Rear facing carseats generally have a weight limit of around 25 pounds, so as long after that isn't very long.

I'm all for whatever keeps kids safer in cars. I think that we've made huge progress from the lap sitting that our parents did. Cars go faster and people drive more and there are more people on the road. We need these precautions. My kids carseats cost $350 a piece (the same Britax seats in the video) because they are the best out there. They far outperformed other carseats in all tests. It's a small price for me to pay for the extra safety. I hope the seats will never be put to the test, but if they are I'll be glad I have the seats I do. Plus, they will be in them until they are five or six, so it's a small cost per year.

As far as adults not having the same protection, I think that if companies offered it then some people would use it. It isn't profitable for them to do so though, so they don't. Plus, cars and seatbelts are designed for an adult frame. An adult is significantly safer in a car than a child just by being much bigger. Not going to the extra trouble for children's safety means that kids are much much less safer in a car designed for an adult.

And none of this stuff takes forever. It takes me all of 45 seconds to buckle each child into a carseat. What would you rather the alternative be?

[Strangler Lewis]

We trust that other drivers will be coherent and act in their own best interest.


Who does? My operating assumption is that everyone on the road is a belligerent ass suffering from alcohol poisoning, testosterone poisoning or both. Especially those in the biggest, "safest" vehicles.

[tracilicious]

Obviously I'm not a parent so it might all change if I were to become one, but this is true on other topics as well: You take reasonable precautions and sometimes **** happens.


This is true. Sadly, many parents have to be prompted to take reasonable precautions. Re: the boy in the video. I think the video is giving the false impression that if only he was in a Britax he wouldn't have died. That may or may not be true. Like the thread you linked to said, he wasn't even in the booster seat properly. I know that if my three year old were in a seat that he could unbuckle he probably would. I think a better campaign would prompt parents to check for proper fit and weight limits. But there may have been absolutely nothing that would have saved his life.

That doesn't mean that others shouldn't take those same precautions though.

[CoasterMatt]

I wish cars would have the double latching seatbelts that newer Intamin coasters have (if you've ridden Xcelerator at Knott's - that's a double latching seatbelt).

[Prudence]

Who does? My operating assumption is that everyone on the road is a belligerent ass suffering from alcohol poisoning, testosterone poisoning or both. Especially those in the biggest, "safest" vehicles.

I've ridden (once) with plenty of people who do. I personally assume that everyone who's not me is a complete idiot - both on and off the road - but plenty of people assume the other person sees them and cares. Maybe it's a regional thing - we have the most passive-aggressive driving up here that I've seen in any state I've visited.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Visible Alex Mojo - thank you! Everyone needs to read that post.
However, if your seatbelt malfunctions, the tether on the top of the Regent (or any other forward facing carseat for that matter) is not going to be a back up.I thought so! Forgot to mention this in my OP. And as for the booster etc being used incorrectly - I hope that got back to the parents.

Traci, thanks for the info. I knew a parent would know more about this than I.
As far as adults not having the same protection, I think that if companies offered it then some people would use it. It isn't profitable for them to do so though, so they don't.See, that's just what I'm talking about. Passive restraint systems (multi-airbags) and collapsing bumpers are obviously very profitable. My theory is that adults do not care to spend the 45 seconds it would take to buckle themselves into a 5 point belt and would rather spend thousands of dollars on other measures. I'm not knocking any safety system or saying I even really want a 5 point belt, it's just amazing to me the discrepancy between perceived requirements for child and adult safety.

Good point though about cars being safer for adults in general...

[tracilicious]

See, that's just what I'm talking about. Passive restraint systems (multi-airbags) and collapsing bumpers are obviously very profitable. My theory is that adults do not care to spend the 45 seconds it would take to buckle themselves into a 5 point belt and would rather spend thousands of dollars on other measures. I'm not knocking any safety system or saying I even really want a 5 point belt, it's just amazing to me the discrepancy between perceived requirements for child and adult safety.


It's funny that they don't offer five point restraints for adults. It would probably take an adult five seconds to get it buckled. It takes me 45 with the kids because I have to get them in, buckle the buckles, and adjust everything.

It probably has something to do with comfort, as many americans are overweight, having a buckle between your thighs would probably suck. Also though, that as an adult I know the risk I take everytime I get in a car and I decide to take that risk. My kids obviously can't know the risks of riding in an automobile. I am choosing to take that risk for them. So, of course, I want to do whatever is in my power to lessen the risk. So my point is, that for most people a seatbelt is enough protection when faced with the fairly minimal risk of a car wreck. But like I said above, a seatbelt wouldn't be any protection at all for a small child, so we have to take much more drastic measures to protect them against the same risk.

Sorry, I'm rambly today.

[Capt Jack]

believe it or not, 5 point harnesses are NOT DoT approved, although I'd be hard pressed to say why that is. Im in the process of piecing together a bracket drag car. first thing I did was replace the seat belts...which is when I found out about the DoT thing (much to my dismay)

yes, Ive seen them fail although its not usually the belt itself, but the mountings.

[Strangler Lewis]

The way to get Americans to wear five point harnesses while driving is to pitch it as what fighter pilots do. In the same vein, drivers are told that their big SUVs and picksups are safer, but what they're really buying is a weapon.