Idiocracy

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Just to rebel from the Misc Mushy Mingle thread, I'm actually starting an individual thread about a movie we just saw on DVD. :eek:

Idiocracy. (http://imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) Never heard of it? Neither had we. Saw an ad for it being released to DVD. Mike Judge made another movie?! After reading the plot outline I had to see it:
Private Joe Bowers, the definition of "average American", is selected by the Pentagon to be the guinea pig for a top-secret hibernation program. Forgotten, he awakes 500 years in the future. He discovers a society so incredibly dumbed-down that he's easily the most intelligent person alive.

The movie delivers a horrifyingly possible - nay, probable! - future. It was funny and ridiculous but man, it was scary more than anything. I probably won't see it again but it was an entertaining flick.

I recommend it for popcorn stupidity. You may come away wanting to procreate and fill the world with smarter children.

"What are you tryin' to read that word for? What are you, a fag or somethin'?"

Random searches around the net tell me that the studio squashed this movie. Even the DVD release is in lame-ass January and costs way too much. I even found amusing posts (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=853502) that claim that Idiocracy was far more plausible than Children of Men.

Anyway, worth a Netflix evening. :snap:

[innerSpaceman]

You may come away wanting to procreate and fill the world with smarter children.

Please excuse me, I have a Jew egg to care for.


So .... IS this an announcement??

[Babette]

or an argument for government regulated reproductive rights

FUnny movie. Product placement and endorsements will be out of control in the future.

[NirvanaMan]

I recommend it for popcorn stupidity. You may come away wanting to procreate and fill the world with smarter children.

Hmm, well I took away a rather different twist on the same idea. I felt the strong urge to have the entire population neutered. Reproduction rights can be reinstated after registration, licensing, and a thorough background check including psychological evaluation and proof of financial stability.

Although that's nothing different than what I thought before the movie, but it just reinforced it...in a very eerie creepy way.

And now....the cupcake and memorial smilies. :babette: :decap:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

So .... IS this an announcement??Dude, you just have to see Borat and Idiocracy. Just because I've been seeing movies with reproductive themes doesn't mean there's a hidden message here. Why does every gay boy I know seem to be relying on ME to populate the world? :rolleyes: :p

[Not Afraid]

Why does every gay boy I know seem to be relying on ME to populate the world? :rolleyes: :p

Because they've all given up on me. ;)

[Babette]

and they know my boyfriend

[Not Afraid]

And, someone's GOT to have a kid soon because we have a unused, brand new, Bellini Crib in storage. That, alone, is reason to procreate, right?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

And, someone's GOT to have a kid soon because we have a unused, brand new, Bellini Crib in storage. That, alone, is reason to procreate, right?Could you hold onto that for just a few years longer? Thanks. ;)

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Why does every gay boy I know seem to be relying on ME to populate the world? :rolleyes: :p

And no female would touch me... :p

[NirvanaMan]

And, someone's GOT to have a kid soon because we have a unused, brand new, Bellini Crib in storage. That, alone, is reason to procreate, right?

Well, while I do enjoy a fine Bellini and I do hate all children in general, I must say that I find it wholly inappropriate to put a newborn in a crib made of champagne and peach puree.

[Alex]

That, alone, is reason to procreate, right?

There are no good reasons to procreate. Unless you traffic in the human slave trade. Then it is pure profit. That's the only time. And it's wrong.

[Prudence]

jiminy christmas. If someone here has a kid do you organize a pancake hit or just give them negative mojo?

[wendybeth]

Too many Spring Breaks at the Park, Pru. That, and they hate sharing A Bugs Land with the little ones.;)

[BarTopDancer]

Because they've all given up on me. ;)

And they know I'm nowhere responsible enough to care for a kid - if I even wanted one.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

There are no good reasons to procreate. Unless you traffic in the human slave trade. Then it is pure profit. That's the only time. And it's wrong.YOU need to see this movie. Although you'll probably end up with NirvanaMan's "snip 'em all" reaction.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Because they've all given up on me. ;)

and they know my boyfriend

And no female would touch me... :p

There are no good reasons to procreate. Unless you traffic in the human slave trade. Then it is pure profit. That's the only time. And it's wrong.

And they know I'm nowhere responsible enough to care for a kid - if I even wanted one.

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)

I'm with you CP! You guys will make great parents.

[Strangler Lewis]

Too many Spring Breaks at the Park, Pru. That, and they hate sharing A Bugs Land with the little ones.;)

One reason not to have kids is having to go to Disneyland.


Uh oh.

[NirvanaMan]

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)


Eh, many/most new parents tend to ostracize themselves just fine...ditching their old friends prefering to hang out with other parental units so they can spend all day talking about the little s#its and how cute the poopey they made yesterday morning was.

Hmm or maybe they are ostracized from their old friends and forced to seek out other like-minded parents becuase they insist on spending all day talking about the little s#its and how cute the poopey they made yesterday morning was.

But I think it's the former. Either way, kids are still totally not allowed in my house...unless it's in a bucket. They are not allowed in my cars, even with said bucket. Well, I guess I could tow them behind in a bucket on wheels.
But of course, YMMV.

[Strangler Lewis]

One reason not to have kids is having to go to Disneyland.


Uh oh.

Make that, "One downside to having kids . . .

Bring it on.

[Alex]

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)

Of course you won't be ostracized, not by me at least. I'm a libertarian and people are free to do stupid things* to their heart's desire.

I'm sure I'll see Idiocracy at some point but you're the first person I know who has seen it (admittedly not many) and said good things about it so it isn't high on my list.


*Tongue in cheek of course. Like religion, the urge to procreate is a biological imperative that our lord savior forgot to give me. I've weighed the pros and cons and haven't yet thought of anything for the pro column. Most of the pros for other people end up, at best, in an imaginary third "meh" column. So long as people are intelligent about their baby-making and don't try to force me to give a damn about the birthday of a four-year-old then I wish you all the best.

[Prudence]

Remind me never to post a birth announcement here...

[cirquelover]

You can all talk big about not liking rugrats but I have seen some of you with Wendy's daughter and my son! So maybe, it's just as long as they aren't yours, that you can tolerate them.
Of course it's more fun when they aren't yours. You spoil them, do things they aren't supposed to, get them all hopped up on sugar and then return them to the parents when you are done! That was my favorite thing to do with my nephew!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm with you CP! You guys will make great parents.Actually, what I meant by "help" is for others to have kids too, not just moral support. :) Remind me never to post a birth announcement here...Don't sweat it Pru - they talk a big game but I've seen these lugs with kids. Except Alex. NirvanaMan has actively played with visiting kids. Not that I'd let him babysit or anything...

[wendybeth]

Cirque's absolutely right, and I nearly posted the same thing. You all have been great with our kids when we've been visiting, something I've very much appreciated.:)

CP- when you and GD do have children, you are going to be awesome parents!

[Alex]

There's a difference between not understanding why anybody in the world would want kids and being mean to them.

I'm perfectly nice and friendly with children and can play with them and they all seem to like me just fine.

I just can't fathom why you'd go get one.

[innerSpaceman]

And perhaps it's unfathomable until you do it, and experience it.


Sort of a Catch-22, but that's why the biological imperative exists. There's not much logic to it.

[Alex]

Most people seem to see the appeal of haing children before they actually have them.

But I neither see the appeal nor have the imperative (and no longer the ability) so for me it is all moot.

I do find it interesting that all three of my major social circles (work, Disney, and another) are all almost entirely populated by people without children. That seems particularly unlikely with the Disney crowd. I certainly haven't conciously arranged things so.

[Strangler Lewis]

Nobody should be criticized for not having children except family values conservatives (Buchanan, Coulter, L. Dole).

By the way, this thread started with CP's observation, often considered alarming, that if the wrong people keep having all the babies, civilization as we know and love it will go down the toilet.

True? Not true?

[Alex]

The same argument is made (and generally rejected) that the Western nations need to boost their birth rates so that it isn't left to those ignorant Muslims to populate the world. It is an old fear that has surfaced many times through history as demographics and ethnic geography shift.

The response is generally down one of three channels:

1) Promote genetic isolationism to avoid dilution of community and power (Jews marrying Jews as an internal isolationism; anti-miscegination laws as an external isolationism)

2) Ethnic cleansing. Physically prevent the growth of the "undesirable" population through murder, relocation, or forced sterilization.

3) Absorption. Force/convince the others to give up what makes them "other" and accept your view. This could be brutal as forced religious conversion or general educational/health/economic improvements that are strongly correlated with attitude and behavioral changes.

Maybe the "wrong" people will eventually take over the world but I'll be dead so I won't really care.

[BarTopDancer]

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)

You guys will make great parents when it happens. And there will probably be a baby shower like no other. Really, how many baby showers have a Paramedic rumor mill there?

And for the *help* - I'm sure one of these days I'll have a kid or two. It's just not anything I'm thinking about now, or in the near future. Let's just hope I don't misplace it in Costco or anything. ;)

You can all talk big about not liking rugrats but I have seen some of you with Wendy's daughter and my son! So maybe, it's just as long as they aren't yours, that you can tolerate them.
Of course it's more fun when they aren't yours. You spoil them, do things they aren't supposed to, get them all hopped up on sugar and then return them to the parents when you are done! That was my favorite thing to do with my nephew!

Oh I love kids. As long as I can give them back. BlueErica's sisters, my other friends baby. Spoil em rotten, give them back.

But I also know that I am way to selfish right now and not nearly responsible enough to have kids right now. I had cats that I had to give away (mainly because I was allergic) but I wasn't home enough to give them the attention they wanted/needd.

[Not Afraid]

I don't have kids because it wasn't in the cards for us. We gave it the old college try but life turned out differently. Now that I'm highly unlikely to actually concieve at this point in my life, I don't think that the way things turned out is so bad. I don't mind children but I'm not necessarily fascinated by them for long periods of time. And, there are times that I actually dislike being around certain children. I don't have the patience and tolerance, so maybe it's a good thing we don't have any of our own.

I much prefer cats and dogs. And travel. And freedom. And no responsibility. ;)

More than anything, I'm relieved that it is OK to make whatever choice about having children that you want to make. That is progress in a good direction.

[NirvanaMan]

NirvanaMan has actively played with visiting kids. Not that I'd let him babysit or anything...

Hmm, I think perhaps you mistook my attempt to 'drown' children in '5 gallon buckets'...for 'playing'.

\~:gnome:~~/
..\____/


You are wise to not request my babysitting services...

[innerSpaceman]

Most people seem to see the appeal of haing children before they actually have them.
I don't know where in the world you're getting that, Alex. But if it's anecdotal on your part ... best to consider the 3 realms of childless folk you admit to be at least partially limited to.



Anecdotally on my part, far too many prospective parents seem to want to wait for conditions in their married and financial lives to be "perfect" before having kids ... and too many of them also forget to compute the age they will be when they must deal with the VERY trying teenage years of their offspring whose creation they are putting off.

[Alex]

I didn't think there would be anything controversial about saying that most people see good things in having children before they actually have them.

So I'm not sure where in the world you are getting the opposite. I don't see many people dragged kicking and screaming at the horror of parenthood, driven only by their biological imperative and then to magically realize the beauty and benefits of procreating once they have the little bag of weeds.

[innerSpaceman]

Sorry, Alex ... but I simply disagree - based completely on my own observations (and I know MANY couples with children). It's not that people don't see any appeal beforehand, but rather they primarily foresee tons of downside, scary responsibility, loss of freedom, fear of failure, tons of work ... and they are right on every count. The brain seems to fear having children, but the heart (plus other DNA-influenced elements) have cravings that tend to overcome the mind's worries.


Since it can't be grokked until it's happening anyway, it's a leap of faith no matter what. And a leap I daresay would be taken far less often were it not for the unfathomable biological imperative to jump.






.

[Alex]

Then our experiences are different. I too know a lot of people with children and most of them jumped into it happily, young, and with a feeling that they'd figure it out as they went along.

But I suspect that most of them are in the class of "idiots" that the movie fears will take over the world.

[Not Afraid]

I think it is more of a social imperative rather than a biological one. The biological imperative is to have sex. Deciding to procreate is a different desire - at least it was to me.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Well, like with everything else in this world, its screwed up no matter what you think. People who want kids can't have them, for whatever reason. People who don't want kids have them and either give them up, murder them or neglect them. There are People who accidentally have them and abort them - thousands of Orphans - abandoned in the streets. Its all a garbled mess and a complete roll of the dice. It seems like it shouldn't be like this, but it is - sadly.

Me, I want kids, etc. etc. I've just never been afforded the opportunity to do so. I suffer from the "Ugly, not good enough, goal-less, loserdom" and it really, really sucks.

But on a different note, I have my neices and nephews who I can borrow and spoil and when the barf, crap thier pants and cry, I send them back to thier parents. :D

[NirvanaMan]

Uh gotta agree with Alex on this one ISM. I have found that most people feel like they want kids. In fact, when they find out they I do not, I get 1 of 2 responses:

1. "You'll grow out of it." As if everyone MUST want kids. And you will hit this magical age where you suddenly will realize that you need kids. It is this societal trend that I am constantly bucking.

2. "what's wrong with you?" As if not wanting kids and realizing that you are not parental material is somehow immoral or they feel bad for you as if they realize that your life will not and could not possibly be fullfilling or complete without offspring. I think that most with this reaction don't even bother thinking about it and analyzing whether or not it is the right thing to do or if they are in the right place in their life and have fulfilled everything that they want to accomplish on their own before adding this incredible burdon. They just assume that they have to do it....and of course they want it and need it, otherwise they would be weird.

The response that I nearly never get is "oh ok that's cool" or "yeah me either".

[wendybeth]

I had never planned on having kids either, and I was fine with that. I loved being an aunt and spoiling the kids rotten, then sending them home. The Girl was a total surprise, but once we got over the shock she became the best surprise we ever had. I can't imagine my world without her. Whether or not a person has children does not define them, but there is no denying that it is a life-changing event.

[Strangler Lewis]

I understand, NM. You're afraid.

[Prudence]

I used to not want kids - in large part because I don't want to be a stay-at-home mom. And I worry about not having the funds to provide for them the way I think they should be provided for. Or the "right" home, the "right" job, whatever. Marrying someone who wants to be a stay-at-home dad changes the playing field a bit. Plus, I confess that I'm curious to see what the spawn would look like. And there's the nagging worry that if I don't do it soon I'll run out of time.

[Babette]

Jeez people. Can I get some help here? At least Traci and Wendy know what's up. I just hope we're not ostracized when it does happen ;)When people have kids they tend to no longer be availabe for social situations. When they are available, they have to get home to relieve the sitter, or bring the kids along. This drastically changes the kinds of activities, parties and socializing they do. People with kids tend to phase out their childless friends, not on purpose, but they do. They have play dates, dinner at chuck e. cheeses and bounce house parties. Clubs, fancy restaurants, psychadelic museums, and big people slumber parties become a thing of the past. They are not ostracized, just common interests change.

It is not good or bad, just fact. People choose to live the single or family lifestyle. Both have their pros and cons, I am not knocking either one. They just don't always go together.

Anecdotally on my part, far too many prospective parents seem to want to wait for conditions in their married and financial lives to be "perfect" before having kids ... and too many of them also forget to compute the age they will be when they must deal with the VERY trying teenage years of their offspring whose creation they are putting off. This is the point of the movie Idiocracy. The responsible, smart people are making money and no longer having kids, while the dumb, poor, irresponsible ones are over-reproducing and on welfare. The dumb, poor, irresponsible genes carry on while the smart, responsible ones die out. Scary future.

[Not Afraid]

And there's the nagging worry that if I don't do it soon I'll run out of time.

And, time does run out - and shyt happens. Having a baby is not as easy as it seems like it would be. Especially as you get older.

frrrrrrrrgdddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd ddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

(Teaching your kitten to not walk on the keyboard is also a challenge.)

[Alex]

The dumb, poor, irresponsible genes carry on while the smart, responsible ones die out. Scary future.

Of course, this assumes that poor and irresponsible are genetic predispositions which is unlikely. And the evidence that dumb is genetic isn't very strong either.

I certainly hope the movie doesn't make a genetic claim for these.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I certainly hope the movie doesn't make a genetic claim for these.It doesn't really specify whether it's genetics or environment. Either way works for the picture.

[tracilicious]

When people have kids they tend to no longer be availabe for social situations. When they are available, they have to get home to relieve the sitter, or bring the kids along. This drastically changes the kinds of activities, parties and socializing they do. People with kids tend to phase out their childless friends, not on purpose, but they do. They have play dates, dinner at chuck e. cheeses and bounce house parties. Clubs, fancy restaurants, psychadelic museums, and big people slumber parties become a thing of the past. They are not ostracized, just common interests change.


I think a balance can be had. It requires a juggle but we manage to have cool non-mainstream grown up interests in the midst of bounce house parties and the like. Granted, we don't hang out with your average parent, so many of our parent friends are into really cool things too. I think if all sides are willing to be flexible, old friendships can remain just as strong, only different.

[Kevy Baby]

We have some very good friends that have three kids that we hang out with quite often.

Susan and I really want kids of our own. After so many years of trying (short of medical intervention which I don't want to do except for possible testing*), it appears that it is not in the cards for us. We have talked about adopting, by haven't done anything on that front in a couple of years.

But I also wonder what if we haven't become too adjusted to being SINK's - would the transition to parenthood (especially if we adopt an older child) become too much of a shock.

But as many a parent has told us; no matter what, you are never ready for parenthood. Yet somehow it all works itself out.

* I am NOT looking forward to wacking off into a cup at some cold, sterile clinic. That's just too much f'n pressure!

[Morrigoon]

Actually, what I meant by "help" is for others to have kids too, not just moral support. :) Don't sweat it Pru - they talk a big game but I've seen these lugs with kids. Except Alex. NirvanaMan has actively played with visiting kids. Not that I'd let him babysit or anything...

Don't worry, you're not the only breeder-in-training here. We were actually just talking about it the other night and set a target date of firstborn by 2010 (because I really think I should have my first by the time I'm 33 - getting old and all that). But first, I need some hardware on the hand, you know?

[Morrigoon]

To those who want kids but haven't, for whatever reason, been able to come by them in the traditional manner, there is always adoption. Not just the tedious, expensive, American kind, but international adoption too.

(slightly off-topic alert)

I've been following the blog of a lady in the valley who adopted two boys from Russia just over a year ago, and it's been really eye-opening. Of course adopting from America is great too, but something about taking kids out of desperately awful conditions in other countries and giving them a shot at being in the lucky 3% of the world population fortunate enough to live in this country... it just makes adopting a kid that much more appealing. Given my choice, I'd like to have two and adopt one, probably from abroad. Unfortunately my mate of choice isn't so hip on the whole adoption thing, so I probably won't get to, but I think it's really great.

Anyway, that blog is: http://kaufmanfamily2.spaces.live.com/
If you go back to the first posts, they go through the whole adoption process, trip to Russia, etc.

[Kevy Baby]

Don't worry, you're not the only breeder-in-training here. We were actually just talking about it the other night and set a target date of firstborn by 2010 (because I really think I should have my first by the time I'm 33 - getting old and all that). But first, I need some hardware on the hand, you know?If you want to get PG, the hardware should be somewhere else besides your hand.

[Kevy Baby]

To those who want kids but haven't, for whatever reason, been able to come by them in the traditional manner, there is always adoption. Not just the tedious, expensive, American kind, but international adoption too.Also, you can avoid the expensive portion of adopting an American kid by working with Social Services. If you live in Orange County (CA), you are fortunate enough to be in the area of one of the best Social Services agencies in the country. This is where we know that we will go once we get things in gear. Yes, we know that we are probably getting into a special needs situation, but this is okay with us.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Just gotta say - a lot of people keep saying "you'll be a great parent" both here and in mojos, as if Alex and NM are somehow saying the opposite and I need to be reminded of it. Huh? I know that those that say that they don't want to be parents are not dissing me. They just don't want to be parents. I'm totally cool with that.

I also know perfectly well that I'm going to be an amazing parent. :)

[Morrigoon]

I'm going to be totally creeped out the first time I participate in a diaper rash discussion on this board... haha.

Heheh... we're getting old...

[Not Afraid]

I'm going to be totally creeped out the first time I participate in a diaper rash discussion on this board... haha.

Heheh... we're getting old...


Hmmmmmm, that may be time for another board split. ;)

[Strangler Lewis]

I'm going to be totally creeped out the first time I participate in a diaper rash discussion on this board... haha.

Heheh... we're getting old...

I don't think anyone on this board is old enough to be wearing a diaper.

Kevy, I did my business at the doctor's office to prove my vasectomy had taken. No sweat. (But, for one of the finest institutions in the country, UCSF sure has crappy porn.)

If you're looking at an older child from a foreign country, you're at risk for a child with attachment problems due to the whole orphanage thing. On the other hand, I recently heard about a woman with two older kids who adopted a one-year-old girl from China. The adoption is not yet final, and she wants to return her. Doesn't like her. Says she has conniving eyes.

[wendybeth]

Just gotta say - a lot of people keep saying "you'll be a great parent" both here and in mojos, as if Alex and NM are somehow saying the opposite and I need to be reminded of it. Huh? I know that those that say that they don't want to be parents are not dissing me. They just don't want to be parents. I'm totally cool with that.

I also know perfectly well that I'm going to be an amazing parent. :)


I didn't think either Alex or NM were saying that, and my comment was purely spontaneous. If it makes you feel better, I'll take it back.

(I still think you'll be great parents, though).

[Kevy Baby]

I don't think anyone on this board is old enough to be wearing a diaper.Are you sure you are aware of everyone's proclivities? :evil:

[JWBear]

...If you live in Orange County (CA), you are fortunate enough to be in the area of one of the best Social Services agencies in the country...

On behalf of my coworkers and myself, Thank you!

[Kevy Baby]

On behalf of my coworkers and myself, Thank you!I did not know that's where you worked JW.

Susan and I went through all of the adoption training through the county, but did not follow-through because we wanted to make one more effort to conceive (although the folks were VERY interested in having us adopt because of our backgrounds - they envisioned adopting siblings!!!). I think it is time to revisit the topic as we ain't got no bun in the oven.

When we started (looking at adoption), we did some research and that's when we discovered how good the department was.

Kudos to you and your co-workers!

[Alex]

Here's my view on "you'll make great parents."

I have no idea. Many incredibly nice people make for horrible parents and plenty of otherwise rotten people make for great parents. People who manage to produce one great kid will find that the other one turns out rotten even though they were exposed to the same parenting.

So with all the friendly emotion I can muster I say "If you become parents I'm sure you'll work hard at it."

[€uroMeinke]

* I am NOT looking forward to wacking off into a cup at some cold, sterile clinic. That's just too much f'n pressure!

So do it at home and bring in the sample

[Not Afraid]

I think there are several men on this board that have had the "cup experience".

[CoasterMatt]

I think there are several men on this board that have had the "cup experience".
It was one film in college, and I was paid well, ok?

[wendybeth]

Here's my view on "you'll make great parents."

I have no idea. Many incredibly nice people make for horrible parents and plenty of otherwise rotten people make for great parents. People who manage to produce one great kid will find that the other one turns out rotten even though they were exposed to the same parenting.

So with all the friendly emotion I can muster I say "If you become parents I'm sure you'll work hard at it."
My criteria for what might make a good parent are the following: intelligence, patience, ability to think outside the box, stable home environment, belief in the value of a good, well-rounded education and the ability to keep a pet alive for more than three weeks. Oh, and it's good to actually like children.

I'd say they fit that description.

[lashbear]

I think there are several men on this board that have had the "cup experience".


OK. (adding one cup to packing list for USA...)

[Alex]

I was able to do the cup from home, but for me it wasn't important that the make it to review alive, just that there be none in the cup to begin with.

wendybeth, I know plenty of people who fit your description but really aren't that great as parents. I have every reason to expect that GD and CP would be good parents, but then I had every reason to expect that my uncle and his wife would be good parents. It's a crapshoot to a certain extent, no matter how good the intentions.

[innerSpaceman]

Good parents being one thing ... raising good kids being almost entirely non-dependent. Oh, I'll grant that crap parents likely make for nasty kids ... but I've known good parents who've already raised good kids to then raise a devil spawn.


Kids are people. They will be what they will be. No need to add bad parenting to the mix ... but good parenting is a guaranty of nothing.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Here's my view on "you'll make great parents."

I have no idea. Many incredibly nice people make for horrible parents and plenty of otherwise rotten people make for great parents. People who manage to produce one great kid will find that the other one turns out rotten even though they were exposed to the same parenting.

So with all the friendly emotion I can muster I say "If you become parents I'm sure you'll work hard at it."

Good parents being one thing ... raising good kids being almost entirely non-dependent. Oh, I'll grant that crap parents likely make for nasty kids ... but I've known good parents who've already raised good kids to then raise a devil spawn.


Kids are people. They will be what they will be. No need to add bad parenting to the mix ... but good parenting is a guaranty of nothing.Visible mojo for both of you. Well said. :snap:

At some point I'd like to discuss the probability of a future filled with stupid people - but not now, I've got a nice beer buzz and Evangelion to watch.

[innerSpaceman]

Um, that future is now. Have you been outside your house lately?


The world is almost to the breaking point with stupid people.

[Alex]

After having spent some time studying history I'm pretty convinced that we are, on average, no stupider than ever. It is just that history tends to ignore the "lower classes" of ordinary people. But in reading cultural history after cultural history that focuses on the lives or "ordinary" people the same themes of "people are idiots" keep coming to the surface (see, for example, Richard Darnton's The Great Cat Massacre and Other Episodes in French Cultural History; though for a view of what occupied the intelligentsia I can also recommend Darnton's more academic Forbidden Bestsellers of Pre-Revolutionary France).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Um, that future is now. Have you been outside your house lately?


The world is almost to the breaking point with stupid people.No, dude, I'm talking about serious stupidity. See the movie.

After having spent some time studying history I'm pretty convinced that we are, on average, no stupider than ever. It is just that history tends to ignore the "lower classes" of ordinary people. But in reading cultural history after cultural history that focuses on the lives or "ordinary" people the same themes of "people are idiots" keep coming to the surface (see, for example, Richard Darnton's The Great Cat Massacre and Other Episodes in French Cultural History; though for a view of what occupied the intelligentsia I can also recommend Darnton's more academic Forbidden Bestsellers of Pre-Revolutionary France).What about the concept that no matter what, smarter people will complain about dumber people, no matter how many there are, or how wide the gap is?

My current POV regarding other metrics, like percentage of the world population that has access to leisure time, health care, education, etc, is that probably (I have no proof of this, just my own POV) it's about the same as it ever was. I also believe that there are many factors that keep the percentages stable.

My POV on percentages regarding smarts was basically the same. But now I've thought way too much about it due to this movie and realize that the shockwave that The Pill has caused is incredible. It's only been around for what, 60 years or so? Already the effect is dramatic and totally measurable. Like a stand up comic once said - there's a reason it's called The Pill. They invented medicine that has nearly eradicated polio, but they didn't call THAT The Pill.

It's frightening, but at this point, I'm really starting to believe that Mike Judge's crazy scenario is completely plausible.

[wendybeth]

When I refer to 'good parent (ing)', I do not mean the end result- I mean the apparent ability to do so. No one can truly predict the outcome of any parenting attempt; one can only go by certain criteria and hypothesize as to the level of success. There are far too many variables in both the parent (s) and the child's life to state with any real certainty the outcome. Having been raised by a lunatic, I can safely say that sometimes things work out better than they should have. I also have a very dear, sweet friend who is currently raising a female version of Damian, through no real fault of her own. (The kid truly is evil).