Survivor 14

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hey, did y'all know that Survivor's starting in 2 days?!

We didn't either until we saw the Super Bowl.

Yay!

Sticking with my usual strategy, I will be pre-rooting for whichever female contestant looks the most attractive in their headshots on the CBS website (at least until the show comes on and I decide that someone else is more attractive). Go Jessica!

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Wow, thanks for posting this. I wouldn't have known otherwise. And, miracle of all miracles, I just happen to be free on Thursday evening. I might actually see a season opener for once!

[Nephythys]

yup- all set.

My tv schedule is getting full- AI, Survivor, CSI, Grey's Anatomy, ANTM coming up- and the Amazing Race All Stars!

[Stan4dSteph]

I read through the bios, and no one stood out to me. No Stanford people this time around.

Lots of people from California though. That's kind of annoying. Not much geographic diversity.

[Mousey Girl]

Nickolas was alllllll excited when he saw the CBS spots. He loves Survivor and TAR. It is something he can really get into and at the same time something that I enjoy. We always make it a big deal. In past years didn't it premier right after the Superbowl or am I cornfussed?

[Mousey Girl]

Born in Miami, Florida, Lisette "Lisi" Linares lived on again and off again in New York City, taking college courses at New York University Film School before moving to Los Angeles. She currently works as a customer service representative for a psychic service company. She has previously worked as a reservationist and paralegal.



I am amused...

[Ghoulish Delight]

Nickolas was alllllll excited when he saw the CBS spots. He loves Survivor and TAR. It is something he can really get into and at the same time something that I enjoy. We always make it a big deal. In past years didn't it premier right after the Superbowl or am I cornfussed?They did that once. But the Super Bowl isn't on CBS every year so the opportunity isn't always there. Plus, I'm assuming the ratings weren't all that good for the year they did do it because they haven't it since (I believe CBS has had the Super Bowl twice since they did the right-after-the-game premier).


Lots of people from California though. That's kind of annoying. Not much geographic diversity.
At least one of them (Go Jessica!) is a transplant, having grown up and gone to school in New Orleans, only moving to LA recently.

ETA: Ah, I see Mousey Girl spotted another transplant.

[Prudence]

I will have to first root for the LARP geek, who will probably get booted in the first episode. Then I will root for the school bus driver, who will probably be the second off. Hopefully my third choice, the chick marine, will last longer.

[Mousey Girl]

At least the group isn't full of overly beautiful people, and somewhat reflects a more "natural" view of humanity.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I'm going out on a limb and saying that Alex or Mookie will take it*.

*this opinion subject to change without notice. Funny though, if my first impression were to turn out to be accurate.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

So, I'm the first one here?

Well, I thought there were some interesting twists.

* Tough break for the architect. She isn't going to be happy when she returns.

* Dre won't be around very long if he keeps talking all night while people are trying to sleep.

* Yau Man - Ah, someone with a brain for a change. He'll lose a challenge somewhere along the way and get the boot. Until then, he's got the "outsmart" part handled.

* Anthony - could be an promising contestant.

* Mookie - Not so much.

* Rocky - Dude, you look too much like Rocky. It distracts the hell out of me.

Oh well, should be an interesting season. Interesting that the idol is hidden somewhere in camp.

[scaeagles]

Hey GD....I don't think Jessica is going to win.

[Sub la Goon]

Boo to them for voting off Jessica! I am not watching next week!

Well, maybe a little. I have to see someone get hurt.

And Tribal.

All right, I will watch the whole thing.

But I won't like it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hey GD....I don't think Jessica is going to win.
If you need me you'll find me at the horse track cashing in on my prognosticating gift.

You know, if I ended up on the lap-of-luxury team, I think I'd feel a little gypped. Probably not enough to, like, eschew (sorry Rocky, is that word too big for you) the amenities, but still. If I signed up for Survivor, I'd want to play Survivor...living in a crappy lean-to, scrounging for food, etc. I wouldn't want the cushy experience.

Oh well, I'm not too upset about Jessica. As usual, the headshots fail to accurately portray the relative attractiveness. It's between Erica and Michelle now, though I think Erica's thinking too much too early. She should ditch the hat and just rock the fro.

[Strangler Lewis]

I'm assuming that the first time they lose a challenge, the resort is history. It'll either disappear during tribal counsel, they'll switch with the other team, the other team will get to tear it down or they'll have to tear it down themselves. Unless there's some typically blatant do-it-yourself sponsor tie-in that I missed.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

She should ditch the hat and just rock the fro.Funny, I found the fro totally distracting, and felt much better about her when she wore the hat. Rocky was annoying, not because he looked like Rocky, but because he wouldn't stand up for himself and say "call me James, damnit." He also seems to be one of those hotheaded Italian types and can I just say blech.

I am glad the mom stayed, and I like dorky Asian guy, of course. As usual, I can't tell any of the meaty men apart yet.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Funny, I found the fro totally distracting, and felt much better about her when she wore the hat. The fro just exudes confidence.

Okay, so screw whoever quit before they even got on the boat. WTF is that? How many hundreds (thousands?) of people try to get on the show and some wuss bailed before even starting?

I wonder how the team-picking would have gone if they had the full 20 people. 2 captains, each sent to exile island perhaps? Something completely different? You gotta wonder how much contingency planning they do.


Speaking of exile island, interesting twist with the immunity idol being at camp (I do seem to remember the teasers at the end of last season mentioning 2 hidden idols). Obviously Sylvia ain't going to tell anybody. That'll make for an interesting moment the next time someone on that team goes to exile and finds out. Will they talk to Sylvia about it, or will it remain an unspoken thing? And what kind of fireworks are going to go off when a few more have gone and it inevitably leaks out to those that haven't been to exile? Fun stuff.

Oh, and they all need to stop with the nicknames thing. This is turning into Survivor: Flavor of Love Edition

[Matterhorn Fan]

I assumed that they'd sent in an alternate and that they'd originally intended to start with 19 rather than 20. I was wondering who the alternate was.

I thought Sylvia should have fed that "clue" to a snake (or otherwise destroyed or hid it) so the next person on exile island wouldn't get to see it unless the producers put another one there.

[Mousey Girl]

Dang there were a lot of snake shots last night. I know the sea crate is poisonous, but non-agressive, but dang, too many for me to be able to watch comfortably.

Mookie is too arrogant to last the entire game. He really bugged me last night. It is as if he is trying to be like Yul from last season.

I see some surprises coming for the spoiled team. Something has to happen as soon as they become to accustomed to their lifestyle.

[Nephythys]

Our household is cheering for Stacey- she's local. Boulder CO-

(Just watched the premiere tonight)

[scaeagles]

I get too confused until it's whittled down a bit. Tough to keep everyone straight when you have to try to figure out who is who with 19 people and 42 minutes of viewing (or 44 or whatever it is). When it gets down to 14 or so I finally have figured out what name goes with what face, and you learn a bit more about them and they become much more intersting.

[Sub la Goon]

I am just curious to see if the campsites will switch back and forth, depending on who wins challenges, or if the first losing team is just SOL for the remainder of the game.

I also think Jessica got totally scapegoated on the last challenge. She was the one responsible for the third puzzle so it's all her fault? I call BS!

[Jughead P. Jones]

Let this be a lesson to anyone who applies to Survivor.

"DON'T TAKE ON A LEADERSHIP ROLE SO SOON".

Sylvia did, and look what happened to her...she ended up on Exile Island, and is joining the tribe that doesn't get to live in the shelter SHE HELPED BUILD!

Just because Sylvia got screwed over so much, I'm making her a sentimental favourite. :)

[Mousey Girl]

Yeah!!! Tonight is Survivor night!!

[Jughead P. Jones]

Okay...it's been long enough.

Erica (the girl who found the pineapples) got the axe over the ever-so-bossy Sylvia (though I actually don't mind Sylvia at all...I kind of like how she has to play her own game, which is the idea, after all).

Tough breaks for Boo, though. If he doesn't stop injuring himself, he might be the first Survivor to actually DIE!

[scaeagles]

Erica got lucky. It wasn't that she was off in some unexplored area of the island risking life and limb....she was just the first person to stop being incredibly stupid and look near the flippin' camp! I found it really amusing how those three (whichever they were) searched the entire island only to have the largest food source 50 feet from where they were sleeping.

Anyone who yells at her teammates during a challange to do it her way and that way is wrong...well...you get what you ask for. If you're going to assert yourself so emphatically you damn well better be right.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Anyone who yells at her teammates during a challange to do it her way and that way is wrong...well...you get what you ask for. If you're going to assert yourself so emphatically you damn well better be right.
And did you see her constantly looking over her shoulder at the other tribe? She was definitely panicking and someline like that is a liability.

Sylvia bugs the snot out of me.

I can't wait until they try an under-ripe pineapple.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Sylvia bugs the snot out of me.


It's okay, GD...she's gone now, and unless they bring back the Outcast twist that they did in season 7, she won't be coming back. :D

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Sylvia deserved to go. Her performance in the rewards challenge was pathetic.

Mookie is starting to really annoy me.

[Moonliner]

It's about time. One of the players FINALLY commented on the great social experiment that is Survivor 14. Last time around it was race. This time it's rich VS poor, haves VS have nots, developed vs third world...

So come on Moto's! Win more challenges for those of us who got something! Stick it to them underprivileged! Show them grumble bellies what a full tummy and a comfy bed can do! Boo ya!

[Ghoulish Delight]

You know, if Michelle hadn't started a fire herself, they STILL wouldn't have fire. CP and I could only recall one season where they went so long without fire that they just had to give up and give them fire before they died.

[Matterhorn Fan]

What kind of person hears "you're going to be on Survivor!" and then doesn't immediately go learn to make fire? This baffles me every season.

[Jughead P. Jones]

What kind of person hears "you're going to be on Survivor!" and then doesn't immediately go learn to make fire? This baffles me every season.

Case in point, Becky and Sundra from Season 13. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Babette]

You know, if I ended up on the lap-of-luxury team, I think I'd feel a little gypped. Probably not enough to, like, eschew (sorry Rocky, is that word too big for you) the amenities, but still. If I signed up for Survivor, I'd want to play Survivor...living in a crappy lean-to, scrounging for food, etc. I wouldn't want the cushy experience.
I'm not watching but I do watch Apprentice:LA. This is their "twist" this year as well. You don't sign up for Survivor to live in luxury and you don't sign up to live in tents while you are interviewing with The Donald. Sucks for the contestants to have it be so different, but that is reality TV for ya.

[mousepod]

What kind of person hears "you're going to be on Survivor!" and then doesn't immediately go learn to make fire? This baffles me every season.

The same kind of person who doesn't learn to drive a stick shift as soon as they find out they're on The Amazing Race.

[Stan4dSteph]

We got our first look at hot medics! Woohoo! Go medics!

No one is sticking out to me as someone to root for.

[Matterhorn Fan]

We got our first look at hot medics! Woohoo! Go medics!

No one is sticking out to me as someone to root for.Really? I think I'm gonna root for the medics. They'll be back this week.

[Stan4dSteph]

Really? I think I'm gonna root for the medics. They'll be back this week.I like your style! :coffee:

[Ghoulish Delight]

Rocky is a bully. A flat out ass of a bully. And seems to be a bit of a misogynist. Anthony may indeed be a whiny puss, but Rocky's a freaking meat headed jerk.

On the plus side, it means that next week, if it lives up to the promise of the preview, we get to see a good ol' fashioned Survivor looney fight! Hooray!

I'm rooting for Yao Man because he tore a freaking coconut open with his bare hands. That ruled.

[Stan4dSteph]

WTF vomiting snake? That was nasty.

[Nephythys]

WTF vomiting snake? That was nasty.

I thought maybe it was shedding? Dunno- that was totally gross!

[Ghoulish Delight]

WTF vomiting snake? That was nasty.
I believe it was shedding its skin.

[Jughead P. Jones]

I just want to know where the green tribe (Moto) left their brains.

I mean, yes, the green team was down by losing "Papa Smurf" (which was probably inevitable given his condition), but they still had an 8-member team, as opposed to a 7-member one on Ravu. You'd think that they would have done everything possible to keep their numerical advantage.

But, no...when given the choice, they choose to lose a tribe member over their nice comfy bed.

Personally, I'm torn. I think that they would have been better off keeping their numerical advantage over luxury. But, that's just me, I suppose.

One thing that I'm sure that we all agree on. Lisi is friggin' driving me nuts, and I want her off my screen YESTERDAY! My god, some of her comments on last night's show made me want to slap her until my hand hurt...and then slap her for making my hand hurt! And, she totally tanked the beginning of that reward challenge so much that I'm AMAZED that they ended up winning.

I'm definitely hoping that Yau-Man and Michelle can stick around. They've proven themselves to be very strong competitors. (after all, Michelle can start a fire herself, which is more than I can say for some people)

And, I'm looking forward to the Rocky/Dreamz confrontation. If we're lucky, they'll kill each other, and we'll never have to deal with either of them ever again.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I just want to know where the green tribe (Moto) left their brains.

I mean, yes, the green team was down by losing "Papa Smurf" (which was probably inevitable given his condition), but they still had an 8-member team, as opposed to a 7-member one on Ravu. You'd think that they would have done everything possible to keep their numerical advantage.

But, no...when given the choice, they choose to lose a tribe member over their nice comfy bed.
You know, I'm going to have to agree with their decision. With a team of 8, they can afford to lose someone and still be plenty strong. With Ravu yet to prove they can win crap, I think Moto made the right analysis that it's their full bellies and comfortable sleep that are giving them the advantage, not their numbers.

[Jughead P. Jones]

You know, I'm going to have to agree with their decision. With a team of 8, they can afford to lose someone and still be plenty strong. With Ravu yet to prove they can win crap, I think Moto made the right analysis that it's their full bellies and comfortable sleep that are giving them the advantage, not their numbers.

Given that explanation, you probably do have a point, but I've seen so many instances where tribes have fallen apart for unnecessarily sacrificing a tribe member. Look at what happened to the Aitu tribe in the last season. Thanks to them sacrificing Billy, only Ozzy managed to stick around. Granted, Ozzy made it to the final two, but I still feel that sacrificing a tribe member when you don't really need to isn't the best idea. It could lead to more problems down the road.

But, that's just me.

[Stan4dSteph]

Liliana trusted the wrong people. I hope the lot of them end up losing their precious camp anyway! Wouldn't that be awesome?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm sure they will eventually lose the camp. I wouldn't be surprised if they start giving the winning team that choice every week, at least for a little while.

[Mousey Girl]

Lisi doesn't grate on me like Dreamz. He is driving me nutso. I think they would have been better without his mouth. Unfortunatly they still need his strength.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Lisi doesn't grate on me like Dreamz. He is driving me nutso. I think they would have been better without his mouth. Unfortunatly they still need his strength.

I'd be happy if we could just take Lisi, Dreamz and Rocky and send them a one-way ticket to Exile Island. If Sue Hawk's prophecy rings true, the snakes will eat the rats, and we'll all be happy, happy, happy! :D

Ah, what the hell...let's send that bubblehead Stacy to join them! :evil:

GO YAU-MAN AND MICHELLE!!!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Good god, all that food has made them retarded.

Dreamz showed this week that, for all his mental instability, he's got more brains than at least 4 members of that tribe. I had an overwhelming urge to punch Stacey when she gave that ****-eating grin to Dreamz. "Staying strong as a team, right guys?" ****.

Anthony's worthless, but good for a laugh. I'm glad they voted Rita out instead, far more annoying.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Good god, all that food has made them retarded.

Dreamz showed this week that, for all his mental instability, he's got more brains than at least 4 members of that tribe. I had an overwhelming urge to punch Stacey when she gave that ****-eating grin to Dreamz. "Staying strong as a team, right guys?" ****.

Anthony's worthless, but good for a laugh. I'm glad they voted Rita out instead, far more annoying.

Had it not been for the fact that Alex and Edgardo were on Moto, I would have turned my back on that whole tribe once and for all. All this greed is getting to their heads, and it's making them look like horrible people. And, maybe when Mark Burnett implemented this twist, he was hoping for that effect. I find myself rooting for the underdog "Ravu" tribe. Come on, guys! Win SOMETHING!!!

But, if the previews for the March 21 show (of which I assume because of March Madness is why we're missing a week) are any indication, the tribes will be switched around...and I hope that Lisi and Stacy end up on the crappy camp...I REALLY, REALLY DO! :evil:

[Stan4dSteph]

That had to be the most pathetic showing at a reward challenge ever. The Ravu women gave up before it had even started! If you really want to win, then show some fierceness! I'm glad Rita got the boot. What a waste of space.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I hate Rocky and Mookie too much to root for Ravu. And right now I'm marveling at their spectacular losing streak. But I guess that's going to end with the tribe re-org next week. Having Rocky and Dreamz together for more than the 3 minutes we see them at challenges makes me shudder.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I'm no fan of Rockie or Mookie either, but I'm not enamored with anyone on the other tribe either. Yaoman, while certainly not perfect, is about the only one I like enough to root for. Lots of folks to dislike this time around, that's for sure.

Concerning the idol, if you are digging through dirt that is rock hard, chances are it isn't where the idol is buried. At least that seems logical to me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The whole idol thing is weirding me out. I had a friend in high school, wiry Asian dude with glasses, real bright guy. He spent most of his lunches in senior year digging a hole in a little patch of grass under a tree...using a Snapple cap. He'd dig all lunch, then fill it back in loosly.

Eventually it got big enough that he started putting the dirt in pillow cases so he could just pull that cases in and out instead of having to re-dig the loose dirt. He got someone to smuggle a couple pieces of would from wood shop to place over the hole and cover with dirt so no one would fall in. By the end of the year he could fit inside the hole.

I wonder if he can rip a coconut open with his bare hands.

[Matterhorn Fan]

Did the clues say the idol was buried? I think it would be funny if it were just hanging right above their heads this whole time.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Did the clues say the idol was buried? I think it would be funny if it were just hanging right above their heads this whole time.

I was just thinking that myself!

[Jughead P. Jones]

Just a reminder to all Survivor fans here on LoT.

Survivor is airing on Wednesday, March 21 due to the March Madness programming on Thursday night.

Times may vary based on location. :)

[Matterhorn Fan]

Will someone bump this thread tomorrow? Preferably before 8 PM Eastern time?

[Stan4dSteph]

Will someone bump this thread tomorrow? Preferably before 8 PM Eastern time?I'll try to remember. :cheers:

[Matterhorn Fan]

Thanks! :cheers:

[Stan4dSteph]

Survivor tonight at 8!

[Matterhorn Fan]

Thank you....I remembered when I saw you come onto YIM. ;)

[Jughead P. Jones]

One good thing about living on the East Coast is that I get to see it before all of you!!!

Of course, I won't spoil anything yet...but I must say that I was very happy with tonight's episode! VERY, VERY, HAPPY!!!

[Matterhorn Fan]

There are some of us who see it at the same time as you do.

So, how many people do you think doomed themselves tonight? I say 2.

[Jughead P. Jones]

There are some of us who see it at the same time as you do.

So, how many people do you think doomed themselves tonight? I say 2.


Oh, yeah...I forget that some people have east coast channels on their satellite dishes, or what have you. My apologies. :blush:

And, I must say that it looked GOOD on Lisi to not only go on Exile Island, but then end up AWAY FROM HER PRECIOUS LUXURY!!!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! !!:evil:

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh, yeah...I forget that some people have east coast channels on their satellite dishes, or what have you. My apologies. :blush: She's in Florida.

Okay, I'm both overjoyed and frightened at the results of this episode.

First off, I have no shame in admitting that I delight in seeing Rocky suffer. He deserves every bit of it. He's an ass. I earlier called him "a bit of a misogynist." It's now clear that it's far more than a bit. There's absolutely nothing likable about him.

Anthony, however, still sucks just as much in the opposite direction. Rocky may be a complete asshole and unable to frame his feelings about Anthony in anything but his twisted view of gender roles, but he's right that Anthony is spineless. The two of them are a couple of extreme personalities at opposite ends of a spectrum.


But I wish Rocky had gone. I know they need to win challenges and all that, but at least Anthony without Rocky would be quiet. He wouldn't be nearly as lame and annoying with Rocky not around. Whereas Rocky will continue to be a loudmouth ass. I mean, is anyone looking forward to Rocky and Lisi going at it? Ugh.

That challenge was awesome. I wonder if the designers expected it to get as physical as it did. That moment where Michelle hopped over the other tribe's rig was so pivotal. They were clearly being somewhat polite up to then, but the gloves were off at that point. It was awesome, but damn was I glad they won (take that Rocky!)

My virtual money is still on Michelle. She's still the hottest, and she made fire. She freaking made fire.

[mousepod]

I agree that the challenge was particularly exciting, and the Anthony basically didn't play the game to his strengths, allowing himself to be pigeonholed and basically forced out. Even so, the dynamic of the latter part of the show made me uncomfortable. Maybe it's because I was a nerd (band geek etc.), but I definitely had empathy for Anthony as he was bullied by his teammates.

The greatest irony of the episode for me was that they left Anthony behind... with the friggin' idol! Had he only known of its whereabouts...

[Ghoulish Delight]

Maybe it's because I was a nerd (band geek etc.), but I definitely had empathy for Anthony as he was bullied by his teammates.
As a fellow nerd (yes folks, I was a mathlete), I tried to feel for Anthony, and really would have rather seen Rocky go. But, in the end, Anthony plays way too much of the victim role

Oh yeah, I forgot my favorite part of the episode...Jeff sticking it to Lisi. He basically said, "Shut up with your whining that you got screwed. If you lose from this point, it'll be because you gave up, not because you didn't have a chance."

[Stan4dSteph]

She's in Florida.And I'm in NY. :)

I kept thinking that Anthony might stumble across the idol somehow while given so much alone-time at camp. Too bad he didn't have the clues.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Now that I'm caught up...

I would have much rather seen Rocky go. Getting rid of Anthony was the smart thing to do but getting rid of Rocky would have been the right thing to do. Then again, I've just known too many people like him and it drudges up some angry memories. Still, Anthony just didn't being anything to the table. I mean, even Yao Man seems the better competitor and Anthony could have made up for his physical deficiencies with a bit of social skills. It's Survivor and you gotta do something in the way of surviving.

Unfortunately, if they continue to lose, Lisi will go before Rocky. She pretty much dug her grave with that stupid little outburst. I love seeing Jeff not take any of that crap.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Yeah, I'd just like to say that Jeff Probst rocks regarding his treatment of Lisi. There's nothing Probie hates more than a competitor who quits (a.k.a. Osten from Season 7) without a good reason (a la Jenna M. from All-Stars). Absolutely the best moment in the season so far.

And, I'm going to miss Anthony...had the tribes been shuffled differently, he may have had a chance...but I'm looking forward to the episode where Rocky, Dreamz and Lisi kill each other on the beach. ;)

And, speaking of which, I found it awesome that the "weaker tribe" with Yau-Man, Michelle, Cassandra and Stacy beat all those big, strong men at the immunity challenge. Talk about underdogs!

Go Michelle and Yau-Man!!! And, what the heck, I'll throw in Alex and Edgardo for playing strategically all this time too!

[Jughead P. Jones]

Was anyone shocked at all that Rocky was voted off? I know I was NOT!!!

I have a strong suspicion that Lisi's days are coming to a close too...not that it breaks my heart if she does leave.

And, with Rocky on the jury...I can't wait to see him during the final tribal council!!!

[Alex]

I don't watch the show but with MC Jeff pretty much admitting (according to a TV blog that I read) that this season has sucked, are you regular watchers in agreement with that?

[Stan4dSteph]

Yes. There aren't any really interesting, standout personalities. I said it earlier on that I hadn't found anyone to root for.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Eh, there have been worse seasons, but it's not the greatest.

So Rocky is on the jury? Was that said (other than by Rocky in his parting whine) and I missed it?

[mousepod]

Eh, there have been worse seasons, but it's not the greatest.

So Rocky is on the jury? Was that said (other than by Rocky in his parting whine) and I missed it?

Yeah, you missed it. Jeff said "...and the first member of the jury...".

Weird.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Then I guess they're doing the same thing as last season. 9 jury members choosing between the final 3. It was pretty lame last time, I can't imagine it will be any less lame this time.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, YaoMan and Earl figured out within 2 or 3 clues exactly where the Idol should be. Lisi had something like 6 or 7 clues...and the best she can come up with is, "Uuuuh, it's somewhere on this island."?? And what the heck is she doing telling someone else?

[Matterhorn Fan]

She's stupid?

[Strangler Lewis]

Then I guess they're doing the same thing as last season. 9 jury members choosing between the final 3. It was pretty lame last time, I can't imagine it will be any less lame this time.

It wasn't lame at all. The third person was necessary to avoid the usual thing where the number 3 coattail rider gets taken to the finals and gets thrashed. Last season's vote was exciting.

[Jughead P. Jones]

She's stupid?

Nah...we've all known that since episode two!

I think it's actually a smart move to let at least one person know you have the idol, as long as it is the RIGHT person. Case in point, Yul using the idol to manipulate Jonathan last year...one of the greatest moves in strategic terms in Survivor history. Now, I'm not saying that Yau-Man is like Yul in any way, but I think he made a smart move by teaming up with Earl, and coming up with a way they can both benefit from the idol. Let's see if this holds true.

I actually find it hilarious that Lisi was determined to find that idol, yet in the previews, she's just snoozing away while the others are digging for it. :D

[Mousey Girl]

I laughed out loud when YaoMan buried a "fake" idol.

Up until the article Alex mentioned, Jeff had been saying that Africa was his least favorite cast/season. Since I didn't start watching until the middle of Amazon, I have no way to compare the two seasons.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think it's actually a smart move to let at least one person know you have the idol, as long as it is the RIGHT person. It's one thing to use it when you already have it. It's another thing to be the only person on an island that knows how to find it...and then just kinda tell someone else. Umm, freaking retarded. With Yao, Earl also had seen the clues, so they just combined knowledge, coopting the competition rather than battling him. Lisi had zero competition, but decided that creating new competition would be a good idea. Retarded.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I was cracking up when Yao was painting the fake idol and putting"I I" on it, just in case someone was too stupid to figure out what it was. Of course, it would have been so much better if had been able to pull off the same thing before they switched camps, so that the other camp could find the fake. Either way, I can't wait to see the look on someone's face if they do, in fact, happen to find, then try to use, the fake idol. :)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Heehee, that had us cracking up. There's sure to be someone on that island who would fall for it. Oh, I so hope. I can't even imagine what Probst would say to that.

I always wonder how much of the stuff at camp he sees. There's a lot of footage, and while I'm sure they start doing some rough cut stuff on the spot, it's not like they do the major editing until after it's all shot and they know what story they want to tell about the eventual winner. So it's entirely possible that he doesn't really pay much attention to the camp (I won't believe for a second that he doesn't have access to seeing it) and really does learn things while at tribal council. Or maybe he does get some sort of executive summary, a day's highlight. But sometimes I would also believe that he just loves it so much that he just spends all day every day watching as much of what goes on as he can.

[Stan4dSteph]

I have no doubt that Probst gets briefed before Tribal Council, at least to the effect that he can ask pointed questions to get the folks talking.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I have no doubt that Probst gets briefed before Tribal Council, at least to the effect that he can ask pointed questions to get the folks talking.
Yeah, that seems like the most likely to me too. But there has been a rare occasion that he seems surprised to learn something at council. But perhaps he's just good at feigning surprise.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Oh, Lisi, Lisi, Lisi...GOOD RIDDANCE!!!

Honestly, I needed an Excedrin just to try and understand her. Before the challenge, she was like "I don't take challenges seriously...we don't need food to be strong, blah, blah, blah." The minute they lose, and Earl sends her to Exile Island because she is the only one who has clues (well, until she blabbed them to Edgardo and Alex, that is), she's all crying, and like "Why am I on a team with losers...I wanna go home...waa, waa, waa". HUH?!?

Then, she's telling Alex and Edgardo to vote her out after they lose an immunity challenge, and then 10 minutes before the council starts, she decides, "if I'm staying in, we need to get rid of Dreamz". HUH?!?

Dreamz taking over tribal council was hilarious. He certainly showed no mercy for Lisi at all, and I'm admitting that Dreamz just shot up in my books for that alone.

And, the whole scene with Mookie finding the idol while Lisi slept. The most hilarious thing that I had ever seen!!!

Can you tell I'm NOT a Lisi fan? :)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow, I knew she was an idiot, didn't realize she was a lunatic. When you're sitting next to an ex-homeless cheerleading coach named Dreamz and people are thinking, "Hey, that dude's making a lot of sense,"...yeah Lisi needed to go.

[mousepod]

You're gonna have to get up really, really early to fool a cat like me.

The funniest line of the season so far.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

First Rocky, now Lisi - at least these guys know who has to leave. I was going to be very disappointed if Dreamz got even one vote after that amazing discussion at tribal.

I love me some Yao-Man! He actually USES HIS BRAIN when attempting challenges. When they stepped up with the spears I was immediately surprised that no one was attempting a javelin-style running throw. I mean, DUH. I've never thrown a spear in my life (maybe a carboard wrapping paper tube?) but I still say DUH. Seeing Yao-Man actually take a minute to survey the weaponry and think a bit before attempting it was soooo gratifying.....especially after some of the more manly men showed off some seriously limp-wristed action. :D

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Yao-Man rocked at that challenge. I loved when Jeff asked him what he could possibly be looking for and he replied "straightest arrow possible". Yeah, he pretty much owned that challenge.

Lisi- I wouldn't even know where to begin. What a character.

As soon as Mookie and Dreamz are gone, I will be a happy camper.

[Jughead P. Jones]

You know, if you thought Lisi was confusing before, check out this interview done by a reality television news site.

http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=4&article=article6892.art&page=1

WARNING: Have your pop-up blocker activated before viewing the site.

[Jughead P. Jones]

I am so upset that Michelle got the boot. I would have much rather have seen Stacy go. But, the previews for next week look promising, with Dreamz telling everybody that Mookie has the idol. :evil:

At least Yau-Man and Earl are a bit smarter in that aspect.

And, just to see how many people were complaining that all the Moto luxuries disappeared when they returned from Exile Island. Priceless!

[Matterhorn Fan]

I missed parts of it last night--were they given the choice between the two camps? And if so, does anyone think that had they chosen the other camp, that they might have returned to all those luxuries?

[Ghoulish Delight]

No choice given. They were told to head out to exile island, which made them all think they were going to be forced to live there. Instead they just found new buffs and a note to go back to Moto's island. So it turns out making them paddle their asses to exile was misdirection/a way to give the crew time to tear down the shelter.

[scaeagles]

I loved how they did the challange last night. I hope they continue to work it that way. It is not often something comes along that completely changes the way the game is played. If the tribe will be randomly divided into two groups for immunity challanges and the losing group goes to tribal, it has the effect of severely crippling (if not almost totally eliminating the influence of) alliances.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I loved how they did the challange last night. I hope they continue to work it that way. It is not often something comes along that completely changes the way the game is played. If the tribe will be randomly divided into two groups for immunity challanges and the losing group goes to tribal, it has the effect of severely crippling (if not almost totally eliminating the influence of) alliances.Indeed, and I did enjoy the twist, but if they keep doing this it will make the game almost completely "random" and take out all the strategy.

Michelle was the most likable person there. Dreamz is messed up in the head and watching him play the mental game is like watching a mentally challenged person try to play chess - painful and embarrassing for all parties. Mookie is an idiot. Alex is sane but allied himself with "the Four Horsemen" and is scheming way too much. Stacy has been a total bitch. Boo has no friends and apparently is not interesting enough to garner camera time. The guy with the accent seems a bit on the clueless side. The remaining black guy is somewhat likeable but no matter who wins this, I will say the same thing - "eh."

Without good people that I want to root for, it's all about watching strategy. When the producers aren't taking away their strategic abilities, the players themselves are making stupid mistakes. End result - I'm going to root for serious starvation. At least that's pretty entertaining.

[scaeagles]

Indeed, and I did enjoy the twist, but if they keep doing this it will make the game almost completely "random" and take out all the strategy.

I disagree. I think it simply changes the strategy necessary to win.

Since Richard Hatch, Survivor has been about the forming of alliances and how well you do it. If this changes - even on just the occasional challange - it completely alters how you have to play the game. No more will it be just to be alligned with the greater number of people, it will be about the ability to manipulate the entire group of people. No longer will the stupid be able to just be loyal to the power brokers and continue on in the game by simply doing what they are told, and no longer will it be enough to be the most dominant in individual challanges. No longer will wenches like Stacy be able to treat other people like dirt because they have the numbers on their side.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Well, it's too late for all that for this group, that's for sure.

[Prudence]

I like any rule shake-up that knocks the contestants out of their complacency. It seems like contestants go in with their plan because they know what to expect from watching it for umpteen seasons. I'm all for their plans and manipulations and alliances getting a little upheaval.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I'm still finding myself rooting for Earl or Yao-man, but losing Michelle was definitely a strategic blow. They will not be happy when the tribal counsel group returns. Dreamz is going to make things interesting when he spills the beans.

So far, I really think Yao is playing the strongest game. First to win the idol, devilish replacement of said idol with a fake, did fantastic at the last immunity challenge and pretty darn good at this weeks as well. And, nobody would want to face him in a firebuilding challenge. Of course, at some point he is going to be viewed as a threat and ganged up on, unless he continues to stay way under the radar, which he is done pretty well at thus far.

Interesting stuff going on. :)

[Stan4dSteph]

FYI, it's spelled Yau-Man.

Too bad Earl has lost one of his closest allies.

[Ghoulish Delight]

FYI, it's spelled Yau-Man.

Too bad Earl has lost one of his closest allies.Yeah, that puts Earl and Yau-Man quite a bit in jeopardy. But the fallout from Dreamz spilling the immunity beans could change that dramatically.

[scaeagles]

Yau-Man is really the only thing (besides the recent twist) that I have really enjoyed this season.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Just resurrecting an stagnant thread. Lots has happened in the last couple of weeks.

I really though Yau-Man might be going home last week and was surprised when they showed the votes at the end and it was unanimous. Still, I think he would be better served by not discussing his strategy openly, even among those in his alliance. Eventually, those are going to be his opponents.

Can I say how thoroughly I've enjoyed seeing Mookie and Alex get the boot. Their last few antics were quite entertaining, especially when they thought they were going to stick a dagger in Yau-Man by telling the tribe that he had the idol, only to find that nobody cared about said idol, only that they were going through his personal belongings. Talk about a backfire and he played it perfectly.

I'm still rooting for either Yau or Earl. At this point, I think they have played the game very well. If they are up against each other, though, that could be a tough decision.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Early reminder, new episode Thursday, and then finale on Sunday, Mother's Day.

[Nephythys]

:eek:

[Mousey Girl]

Meh'. I guess I would have felt differently if I actually cared about any of those who are left. Now I can go to bed early and not feel like I HAVe to wait up to see who wins.

[scaeagles]

OK - I don't buy for a second that Dreamz was playing Yau. He was agonizing over it too much and he said in on camera interviews during the show that he was going to honor his word.

Breaking your word on Survivor is pretty much part of the deal. At some point, if you are in an alliance of 5, someone in that alliance must be voted out. The difference with Dreamz is that he received payment to make his promise.

He ranks below Johnny Fairplay in my book.

[Gemini Cricket]

Dreamz... what a d!ck.

[mousepod]

The Dreamz thing sucked - even more so because I (and most of America, I'll bet) wanted Yau-Man to win.

What strikes me is that Dreamz and his behavior reminds me of a lot of people in the programs where I work. I think what's rough is that the people who get on the pulpit and shout "I've turned my life around" while still behaving like criminals - and they don't get it. It's just sad.

I'm fairly certain that Dreamz believes his own BS. Doesn't make him less of a jerk - just that more pathetic.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Here's what really sucked, IMO. Dreamz wasn't going to win, no matter who he was up against. He had already made too many enemies. And yet, had he kept his word, he would have retained his integrity and people would have been cheering him, rather than booing him, at the end.

I can't help but wonder what the rewards there might have been in the real world for showing some real integrity.

Earl, on the other hand, is so very lucky that Dreamz made that decision. And I must say that the final Q and A was about the most obnoxious display I've ever seen on the show. Lots of pissed off people this time around.

[Strangler Lewis]

I didn't follow the season much, but, yes, that was an obnoxious jury. Stop talking? Immature Christian? Eeny, meeny, miny mo? One must wonder if three white people would have been treated with such derision.

I liked Yau from what I saw of him, but I don't see what everyone's so upset about. Usually, we don't like to see people acting secure at tribal council because of some deal they made. Yau must have had an incredible reservoir of good will built up for his deal not to be seen for what it was: an attempt to buy success in the game. Buy with a capital $$$. Frankly, I'm surprised Survivor allowed the deal given that agreements to split winnings are prohibited. Yes, people have horsetraded votes during the final immunity challenges, given up family visits, etc., but giving somebody a $30-40,000 prize is a whole different animal.

I don't know about keeping his integrity, but if he had honored the deal, Dreamz could have told the jury, "I'm not afraid of this man, this man who bought his way in." Or something like that.

[Stan4dSteph]

Dreamz was in incoherent mess. Bleah. Rather lame ending.

Survivor: China should be interesting. Not necessarily a tropical paradise. Hopefully it will be better than their other experiment away from the island genre: Africa. I can't think they could possibly get a less interesting group of people than were on Fiji.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I didn't follow the season much, but, yes, that was an obnoxious jury. Stop talking? Immature Christian? Eeny, meeny, miny mo? One must wonder if three white people would have been treated with such derision.Eh, I really believe race had little to do with it. Pathetic delusions of grandeur, huge bunches of sour grapes, and bipolar disorder (hi Lisi!) were the order of the day. Completely painful to watch.


I liked Yau from what I saw of him, but I don't see what everyone's so upset about. Usually, we don't like to see people acting secure at tribal council because of some deal they made. Yau must have had an incredible reservoir of good will built up for his deal not to be seen for what it was: an attempt to buy success in the game. Buy with a capital $$$.Oh, no one saw it as anything but that. But that was what everyone respected about Yau, he played the game out in the open. He made no bones about the fact that he was playing the game to win. He did it respectfully and politely, but he was playing and playing hard. Despite the childish tantrum displays, I'd say that this season more than any other the players were willing to look at it as just a game and not get ridiculously pissed off that someone played it well and had to deceive and out maneuver them. The idiots who were pissed were probably only pissed because they thought they were smarter than Dreamz. Which, I can say quite honestly, they weren't. You've gotta be pretty dumb if Dreamz and Rocky make you look like immature idiots.

As for Dreamz, I said pretty much exactly what Yau said about two minutes before he said it. Dreamz isn't a complete idiot, he clearly is able to assess a situation and know what's going on around him. He just lacks the critical thinking ability to process that information and use it to his advantage. He can't think that 2nd or 3rd step ahead.

So when he said that he really never expected to have to make the decision to give it to Yau or not, I believe him. I'm pretty sure his thought process was, "I get a car? Oh hell yes, deal!" Shortly thereafter it was, "Oh wait, that was kinda bad...I need to get rid of Yau now, and here's how I do it." And it wasn't until that didn't work that he even thought about the moral dilemna of whether to break the deal or not. So while I don't believe that he was truly playing Yau the whole time, I am perfectly willing to believe that he neither planned on keeping nor breaking his word when he initially made the deal as that kind of forethought just doesn't enter into it for him.

[Strangler Lewis]

Well, of course, he was playing the game, but I think he crossed a not terribly fine line. He targeted the least well off person with a huge monetary bribe. That everybody on the jury seemed to think that the poor black guy should have been content to sell his birthright for a new truck and effectively withdraw from the game to me speaks volumes.

I didn't tune in until after the Warriors game ended. Did Dreamz have the chance to throw the challenge to Earl or Cassandra so that Yau could have been voted off without controversy?

[mousepod]

Nope - the last two standing in the endurance challenge were Dreamz and Yau.

I hear what you're saying - and if Dreamz hadn't been playing the sympathy card since day one, I'd agree with you. The fact that Dreamz constantly talked about how he was "basically homeless" invited game play around that "fact".

[Ghoulish Delight]

I hear what you're saying - and if Dreamz hadn't been playing the sympathy card since day one, I'd agree with you. The fact that Dreamz constantly talked about how he was "basically homeless" invited game play around that "fact".
Totally. And he played it right up to the end. There was a point before the final tribal, I'm forgetting exactly when, that he said he wasn't playing the sympathy card, that he told his life story simply because that's who he was and how he got to know people. But then right off the bat with his opening statement he said, "You all know my story, so you know I deserve the money." That was lame.

[Alex]

So, does Yau get to keep the truck after all or does Dreamz still get it?

I don't watch the show (though I've read episode recaps as they cycle through the TVgasm blog) so I don't know if Dreamz is a self-proclaimed nickname or an imposed one. If the former, I just want to say that anybody who would take such a nickname deserves neither a home nor to win Survivor. They need to live a life of squalor as an example to any impressionable young people who might otherwise follow a path towards a really stupid nickname.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, does Yau get to keep the truck after all or does Dreamz still get it?Yau could have kept the truck, but he has said that he's still giving to Dreamz.



I don't watch the show (though I've read episode recaps as they cycle through the TVgasm blog) so I don't know if Dreamz is a self-proclaimed nickname or an imposed one..I think he had the nickname beforehand. But it's hard to be sure. It seemed to me like the producers have started to encourage nicknames in response to the popularity of nicknames on other reality shows. The survivors seemed to be going out of their way to give nicknames to each other and, more annoyingly, their alliances. But with Dreamz, it did seem like he came pre-nicked.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Frankly, I'm surprised Survivor allowed the deal given that agreements to split winnings are prohibited. Yes, people have horsetraded votes during the final immunity challenges, given up family visits, etc., but giving somebody a $30-40,000 prize is a whole different animal.Meant to address this. Starting last season, they explicitly gave the winner of the car the option to give it away to someone else. That, in my mind, makes it a de-facto bargaining chip.

[Nephythys]

I didn't follow the season much, but, yes, that was an obnoxious jury. Stop talking? Immature Christian? Eeny, meeny, miny mo? One must wonder if three white people would have been treated with such derision.

Well, of course, he was playing the game, but I think he crossed a not terribly fine line. He targeted the least well off person with a huge monetary bribe. That everybody on the jury seemed to think that the poor black guy should have been content to sell his birthright for a new truck and effectively withdraw from the game to me speaks volumes.

I didn't tune in until after the Warriors game ended. Did Dreamz have the chance to throw the challenge to Earl or Cassandra so that Yau could have been voted off without controversy?

Honestly- why does race have to be the issue here?

DREAMZ made the deal. What in the world is wrong with expecting him to live up to his word?

He had killed himself with the jury a long time ago-that was just a final nail.

But dangling race as if it was an issue and if he had not been a black guy they would not have treated him the same??? Please-there were 3 african american's in the final three-what the heck does race matter? Buncha pissed off white people mad that they got one upped by a minority?

How insulting.

[Gemini Cricket]

I don't think race had anything to do with it. That jury was nuttier than a squirrel's breakfast.

The real issue is that GD and CP got me hooked on this dumb show. The last time I watched 'Survivor' was never.

Boo looked better shaved. Earl looked better at the reunion show. Cassandra actually looked better on the island... And Dreamz's newer hairstyle looked like a shower cap...

China, eh?


:)

[Strangler Lewis]

Yau could have kept the truck, but he has said that he's still giving to Dreamz.



Yet another example of why life--if reality TV is life--is a law school hypo. If the truck is really Yau's, and he gives it to Dreamz, he has to pay both income tax and gift tax on it. I would think that once they made the deal, they huddled with the Survivor producers to establish that Dreamz had officially earned the truck for income tax purposes. If it had not been established that the truck was Dreamz's, I think we would have heard about it. Like many people who win such things, Dreamz will probably have to sell it to pay the taxes on it unless he hits a post-Survivor windfall of paid appearances. Or unless the producers promise to pay his taxes, like they did for Richard Hatch.

Yau could, of course, sue Dreamz for breach of contract for either the value of the truck or the difference between fourth and third place. It would probably be too speculative to say his damages were a million dollars. However, based on his comments last night, it sounds like he's not going to.

[Prudence]

Of course, if the producers pay his taxes, wouldn't he then have to pay taxes on that payment, too?

[thecorndogwalker]

Boo looked better shaved.
:)


I liked Boo with a little scruff. But he is a Hottie regardless....

[Ghoulish Delight]

Of course, if the producers pay his taxes, wouldn't he then have to pay taxes on that payment, too?It's a tricky bit of accounting, but when I was given an ipod as a bonus at work, they added the cost of the ipod + a bit more $ to my salary that week. Then they took withholding out, then they deducted the cost of the ipod post-withholding, resulting in the same amount of take home pay. I tried to explain this to a coworker, but he still thinks they took $250 out of his salary because all he sees is the "-$250" line on the pay stub. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they do with the truck, and possibly even with the $1 million (though probably less likely with the $1 million as the taxes on that are pretty hefty). I didn't really follow the Richard Hatch case, but it's entirely possible that they gave him a large enough sum that after taxes would leave him with an even million and he read (or pretended to read it) as, "we've already paid your taxes," rather than, "We've given you enough money to cover your taxes, but you have to take care of actually paying them).

[Alex]

Of course, if the producers pay his taxes, wouldn't he then have to pay taxes on that payment, too?

Yes, but then they just pay more recursively until it works out to the appropriate amount. This is the way sales tax works in Hawai'i. Hawai'i's sales tax is actually an exise tax (a tax on business income) that business just pass directly to the consumer (and ends up looking like a sales tax). So they tack on 4%, which is then a 4% increase in business income, so that 4% is taxed at 4%, which is passed on to the consumer and becomes income which is taxed at 4% and so on until 4% is a very small amount.

The sales tax is itself taxed. So the 4% (when I was there) exise tax is really something like 4.17% when it gets added to a purchase price.

[Strangler Lewis]

Of course, if the producers pay his taxes, wouldn't he then have to pay taxes on that payment, too?

Unless tax law has changed since I took it. As I recall it, "The producers took care of it," was one of the defenses he put on or wanted to put on but which has no basis in law. It certainly wouldn't explain why he didn't pay taxes on a bunch of other income from the year in question.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The sales tax is itself taxed. So the 4% (when I was there) exise tax is really something like 4.17% when it gets added to a purchase price.Except that due to the properties of supply and demand, the purchase price ends up being lower than it would if there weren't a tax for any goods that are not perfectly inelastic (namely, everything). So something that would cost $10 in a non-taxed world would not cost $10.42 (which would leave the seller with $10 revenue after the exise), it would be somewhere in between $10 and $10.42. As long as there is elasticity in demand, the producer will always share some of the cost of tax with the consumer.

[Nephythys]

I don't think race had anything to do with it. That jury was nuttier than a squirrel's breakfast.

The real issue is that GD and CP got me hooked on this dumb show. The last time I watched 'Survivor' was never.

Boo looked better shaved. Earl looked better at the reunion show. Cassandra actually looked better on the island... And Dreamz's newer hairstyle looked like a shower cap...

China, eh?


:)

I don't think race was a part of it either- but SL seems to- but he has not explained it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Unless tax law has changed since I took it. As I recall it, "The producers took care of it," was one of the defenses he put on or wanted to put on but which has no basis in law. It certainly wouldn't explain why he didn't pay taxes on a bunch of other income from the year in question.Which is why I have my theory. I bet his contract said something along the lines of, "We're including extra cash to cover the taxes," and he played dumb. "They said they were covering taxes."

[Alex]

Except they don't. Everything you buy in Hawaii has (had, anyway) 4.17% added. I never saw anybody competing on price by eating some of the tax.

And industry wide I'd wonder as well since almost everything sold in Hawai'i in imported from somewhere else so that purchase price is dictated by forces outside of the tax structure in question.

But yes, there is undoubtedly some price suppression caused by the tax, but the point was to demonstrate the recursive taxing that turns a 4% announced tax into a 4.17% real tax. And that it would work the same way if you want to give someone $1 million, after taxes.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Except they don't. Everything you buy in Hawaii has (had, anyway) 4.17% added. I never saw anybody competing on price by eating some of the tax.In a system where the tax always existed, it's not really visible. If the tax were to suddenly disappear, I bet 4.17% of my income that prices would not simply fall down to the sans-tax level, they'd settle somewhere above it. How much so depends on the price elasticity of the product.


And industry wide I'd wonder as well since almost everything sold in Hawai'i in imported from somewhere else so that purchase price is dictated by forces outside of the tax structure in question.Surely an added wrinkle complicating things, but the importers and resellers still mark up the price from whatever they're paying to import. The amount of that markup is still subject to the laws of supply and demand.

But yes, there is undoubtedly some price suppression caused by the tax, but the point was to demonstrate the recursive taxing that turns a 4% announced tax into a 4.17% real tax. And that it would work the same way if you want to give someone $1 million, after taxes.
Yeah, I know. I just like to bring up that finer point of sales tax that most people aren't aware of. A X% increase in sales tax does not translate directly to an X% increase in prices to consumers.

[Alex]

Yeah, I'm aware of it, but if we want to get in the nitty gritty of it all, price elasticity isn't the only major factor to take into account. 2 applie pies at McDonald's are going to have a base cost of $1, no matter what the tax environment (and for reasons that have nothing to do with price elasticity; demand will not fall significantly if they charge $1.05 instead of $1.00). So in this case, the full tax weight is born by the consumer.

The more perfect the marketplace in question, and therefore the more perfectly margins have been driven out of pricing, the more perfectly the tax will be a direct burden on the consumer. So the price impact of taxes will vary quite a bit from product to product but will be most felt in low-margin products with rigid production costs.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, I know those are all factors. My only nitty point in the first place was that it's not quite a perfect parallel to the "We'll cover the taxes" situation because while the value of my ipod was guaranteed to be $250 no matter what extra money was paid to me to cover taxes, the price of a product to which sales tax/exise tax is applied stands the chance of being a moving target depending on the specifics of its S&D curves.

But yes, assuming the price stays stable and the full burden of the excise is passed to the consumer, the math is the same.

[Strangler Lewis]

Which is why I have my theory. I bet his contract said something along the lines of, "We're including extra cash to cover the taxes," and he played dumb. "They said they were covering taxes."

Except it didn't. He got $1,010,000 from the show. I guess the $10K was an appearance fee. He wanted to show, but I believe was not allowed to, that the producers agreed to pay his taxes if he agreed to keep quiet about them tampering with the game.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Except it didn't. He got $1,010,000 from the show. I guess the $10K was an appearance fee. He wanted to show, but I believe was not allowed to, that the producers agreed to pay his taxes if he agreed to keep quiet about them tampering with the game.
Ah. I didn't really follow it closely enough to know, I was just guessing. In that case, he's probably just a jerk.

[Alex]

Yes, and I was being nitpicky in response. Still don't think you're nitpick has anything to do with the example I was giving. Regardless of the price being taxed or the affect that the tax has on that price, the tax is itself taxed since the tax paid isn't directly a tax payment but income. By recursively applying the payment to account for the increased taxes you can achieve the true payment amount to cover the taxes on a given end amount.

But this is a really stupid thing to bicker about.

So, absent having actually watched the show let me just say that I am severely disappointed in the failure of any quality ogle-worthy boobies making it to the late rounds.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, absent having actually watched the show let me just say that I am severely disappointed in the failure of any quality ogle-worthy boobies making it to the late rounds.This we can agree on. Honestly I was disappointed in the overall lack of quality ogle-worthy boobies from the get go. Very disappointing.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Interesting. In looking to see if there's any info on a cast for China, I noticed a site that pointed something out. For only the second time in Survivor history, they didn't bring family members in. The other time was Africa. But that time they did a live satellite feed at least. Zilch this time, other than the letters. I suppose the most likely explanation is that the attempted coup that happened during filming made it impossible.

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't think race was a part of it either- but SL seems to- but he has not explained it.

Well, as far as Lisi goes, I think it's reasonably well known that one older version of the "eeny meeny" song uses the word "Ni**er" instead of "tiger." I think her demeanor was completely consistent with someone who was thinking, "Well, well, look what we have here: three undeserving black people."

The concept of "immature Christian" is common to, though not exclusive to, conversion. Paul discusses it a lot. To me, Boo's hectoring of Dreamz had a "ministering to the natives" tone that veered close to "boy" or "manchild" territory.

The others may well just have been nuts, and it could be they all fell entitled to abuse people they felt were weak because of how they played the game rather than because of the color of the skin. On the other hand, I think there is probably a conventional wisdom among contestants that black people do not do well at Survivor. I think this may have contributed to why there was so little, "Congratulations, you guys. You're sitting there. We're not."

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow, those are some pretty wild conjectures there. Let's start with the fact that I've never heard the "catch a n****r" version of eenie meanie, so I am rather skeptical of your "reasonably well known" claim.

As for Boo, considering that Dreamz and he had seemingly discussed religion, and Dreamz actually said, "I swear to God" and then went back on his word, I don't particularly blame him for jumping on that.

Beyond that, I saw nothing that indicated any racial motivations. 9 of the 12 people there at the end were minorities. None of them had expressed anything that would indicate racial prejudice.

Now, if you wanted to accuse Rocky of badgering Cassandra because she's a woman, that I'd buy. He did much through his whole time there to prove that he's a misogynist with zero respect for women. Show me anything that any of the others did that indicated that kind of prejudice re: race and you might have something. But I sure didn't see it.

[Jughead P. Jones]

In the end, while I wish Yau-Man didn't make that deal with Dreamz at all, which may have given him a better chance at winning, I'm really glad Earl won. He more than deserved it.

Now, the most important thing...

What the heck was Lisi on during that final tribal council? And, more importantly, where can I get some of what she had? ;)

(I should also note that in the beginning, they were initially going to break the tribes up into race again for this season, with 20 castaways, but one dropped out just before the series took place, and as a result, we had two tribes, 19 people, and four different racial groups. If the game had progressed initially, it would have looked like this...

TRIBE #1 - Jessica, Gary, Boo, Rocky
TRIBE #2 - Cassandra, Dreamz, Erica, Anthony, Earl
TRIBE #3 - Alex, Edgardo, Lisi, Rita, Liliana
TRIBE #4 - Stacy, Michelle, Yau-Man, Mookie, Sylvia

[Ghoulish Delight]

What the heck was Lisi on during that final tribal council? And, more importantly, where can I get some of what she had? ;)I think the better question is what should she have been on. I normally bristle at people like me making medical/psychological diagnosis with zero qualification and only a TV appearance as evidence, but it's hard to imagine any clearer evidence of some serious imbalance than the "I'm quitting/I'm trying/I'm quitting/you're losers/etc." she went through.

[Mousey Girl]

I have heard the Eenie Meenie thing before. I just didn't put it with Lisi's little speech thingy. It would make sense, though. I keep picturing her actions with the whole coffee incident with Stacie. She made it obvious she never liked Dreamz or Cassandra, that they were beneath her and not worthy of her assitance, just her ridicule.

[Alex]

I'd say the ****** version is reasonably well known though, of course, not universally so. Especially among younger people. Non-****** versions of the rhyme long pre-date, but it was the dominant form of the poem in American for quite a while.

It was one of three pop-cultural uses of the word "******" I grew up with (though only used when very young before I even knew what the word meant. My mom straightened me out pretty quickly (because of IHOP, actually).

****** knocking (knocking on a door and running away)
****** toes (Brazil nuts)
"catch a ****** by his toe"


But it is one of those things that every once in a while gets someone in trouble for using it without being aware of how it is perceived by many American blacks. A few years ago a flight attendant used the rhyme (a clean version) and black passengers sued because they felt humiliated (I believe they lost).

I have no idea what Lisi intended, but for PR purposes with an all black final three it was at best an unfortunate choice.

[Stan4dSteph]

I've never heard the eeny meeny with "catch a ****** by his toe." Is it a regional thing? I grew up in Upstate NY.

[mousepod]

I've heard most of those - I grew up in New Jersey.

It's interesting how nursery rhymes and the like get modified to fit current standards of acceptability. In 1939, Agatha Christie's novel "Ten Little N*****s" was published. By the time I was a kid, it was "Ten Little Indians". I wonder if even that title would be considered acceptable by today's standards.

[Alex]

Reading around, the unclean version (I'm at work now so just typing that work stops) was in Pulp Fiction though I don't specifically remember it.

[mousepod]

If I remember correctly, the Pulp Fiction usage was in the scene in the back of the pawn shop.

[Alex]

Yeah, I remember the scene (deciding which one to rape first) I just don't remember the specifics of the rhyme.

And according to Wikipedia, Tarantino must have a fondness for it because it also appears in Natural Born Killers, which he was involved with writing.

[Prudence]

By the time I was a kid, it was "Ten Little Indians". I wonder if even that title would be considered acceptable by today's standards.

I believe it's generally now called "And Then There Were None." (We read this in my fifth grade class. Or maybe it was sixth grade. Same teacher.)