On the subject of Goofy

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, we were watching the Westminster Dog Show and we noticed something.

Goofy is a coonhound. Dunno if that's more common knowledge than I realize, but I never really knew, or thought too much about, what dog Goofy might have been patterned after. But one look at a black and tan coonhound and it was patently obvious. Observer.

Goofy:

http://www.boolsite.net/images/previews/DessinsAnimes/Disney/_prev/Goofy.jpg


Black and Tan Coonhound:
http://www.puppyfind.com/breed/black_and_tan_coonhound/m_247045.jpg


That lead to some Goofy research and I came across this gem on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofy). Spcifically, the Concept and Creation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofy#Concept_and_creation) section.

Some choice excerpts:


His brain being rather vapory, it is difficult for him to concentrate on any one subject. Any little distraction can throw him off his train of thought and it is extremely difficult for the Goof to keep to his purpose. Yet the Goof is not the type of halfwit that is to be pitied. He doesn't dribble, drool or shriek.
He is in close contact with sprites, goblins, fairies and other such fantasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy). Each object or piece of mechanism, which to us is lifeless, has a soul and personality in the mind of the Goof.The improbable becomes real where the Goof is concerned. He has marvelous muscular control of his fanny.

[RStar]

It just goes to show the amount of work, developement, and background thought goes into each character.

Thanks GD!

[Not Afraid]

And, Pluto is a Bloodhound.

http://www9.yatego.com/images/42a7e7c00da2d8.7/07-0591.jpg

http://images.clix.pt/canais/arcadenoe/races/1/bloodhound.jpg

[Alex]

Yeah, but would Goofy fight a mountain lion to the death to protect Billy Colman?

[innerSpaceman]

Sorry, but Goofy is not a dog at all. He is a dog-faced man. I have it on good authority.


zapppop and I have quite the running disagreement about this. But I always wondered why Pluto was such a complete dog (even though he had a mouse as a master), while Goofy was so totally anthropomorphized.


So I asked the ultimate authority ... Art Babbit, the creator of Goofy. And Mr. Babbit told me, told me himself, that Goofy was, and I quote, a "dog-faced man."


There you have it.

[mousepod]

Well, iSm, that's 20/20 hindsight for Babbit. When Goofy was first introduced, he was, of course, known as "Dippy Dawg". Much later, in the "how-to" series of films, he was known as "Mr Geef" and was often portrayed without his ears. In between, he was sometimes a dog, sometimes a man, and even occasionally a horse (I have an audio recording of Pinto Colvig from WWII where he introduces himself as "Goofy Horsecollar" - I kid you not).

Goofy is the most confusing of characters. That's why I love him so....

[Alex]

And even if he is just a dog-faced man, one can wonder what dog he has the face of.

[innerSpaceman]

True ... but, c'mon ... he doesn't have the face of a tan coonhound. With all due respect to the O.P., that's quite a stretch. (Heheh, he probably spoiler-tagged the comparison images for a reason. They don't pan out as a match ... sorry).


Goofy's history as man, horse, dog and dog-faced man is quite the genesis. Seeing as my conversation with Art Babbit happened when hindsight was likely 93% of his sight ... I'll grant that his analysis was a wrap-up of the Goof's tortured history. I don't see how that makes a difference. No one claims Goofy's a horse just because he was one at some distant point.

But the fact remains that the Goofy established as a major character was not a dog. He existed in the same immediate world as Pluto ... and even allowing for cartoon reality, it just doesn't gel that both characters are dogs.

Synopsis or not, the man who - by and large - was Goofy's creator told me in his own words. No better or further truth can be found. :cool:

[Ghoulish Delight]

True ... but, c'mon ... he doesn't have the face of a tan coonhound. With all due respect to the O.P., that's quite a stretch. (Heheh, he probably spoiler-tagged the comparison images for a reason. They don't pan out as a match ... sorry).

I spoilered it because they took up too much space.

And, as Alex said, even if he is a "dog-faced man" and not a dog, that dog-face was patterned after something.

Unfortunately, the best drawing of Goofy I found on the 'net that showed the similarities wouldn't show up properly. Say what you want, but CP and I took one look at the dog's ears and face on the dog show and simultaneously came to the same conclusion.


This is just payback for my clock cynicism, isn't it?

[innerSpaceman]

No ... it's that, from the pictures at least, I see only the slightest similarites. Sure, the ears. Uh-huh. But not the face.

And it's just that this has become one of my pet peeves. Like I said, it was a running disagreement with zapppop ... and, while I'm usually cocksure about my knowledge (whether I make it up or not) ... I've rarely had something as authoritative as my conversation with Art Babbit. Now I'm sorry I never asked him where the dog-faced man got his face.



ETA: Oh, you and CP came to the same instant and instinctive conclusion about something? You two who've been a couple for decades? Pfft! It's more notable when you don't think alike at this point.

[mousepod]

Just to add fuel to the fire... did Babbitt create Goofy? He certainly perfected the character and defined the personality - but Goofy appeared in several cartoons before Babbitt got a hold of him, didn't he?

[RStar]

Yeah, but would Goofy fight a mountain lion to the death to protect Billy Colman?
But what I want to know is would Goofy win in a fight with Pluto?

[Alex]

And there are real mice in the same "universe" that contains Mickey Mouse.

Some characters were human analogs and some weren't. Even if they were the same basic species.

But since the original appearance by Goofy was just as a throwaway character in a crowd scene (it was the laugh that caught Disney's tradition) things probably weren't well examined and then future designs were just based on the previous ones.

Here's Goofy in his first appearance:

http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/characterstandard/images/a06b3b.jpe

Notice the human pig, goat, cow, and dog, with the more natural looking cat and dog. Ultimately I'd say that the "dogness" of Goofy is immune to logical consideration.

[innerSpaceman]

And no, Art Babbit is not the originator of Goofy in his original form. Many artists came to "create" Goofy over a span of some years, but Babbit is credited with having had far and away the most input, and thus he is deemed the primary "creator" of Goofy, even though it's acknowledged to have been a group effort.


I still don't think Goofy's face look's anything like any actual dog. It's just generally dog-like, in a cartoonish way that matches no actual canine facial anatomy.

[Nephythys]

The argument that "it doesn't make sense" just won't hold up.

The human-like animals in the Disney world eat other animals (turkey at Thanksgiving etc)

Donald is ALWAYS "nude" on the bottom- but when you take off his shirt he covers his lower body.

It doesn't have to make "sense".

[mousepod]

Donald is ALWAYS "nude" on the bottom- but when you take off his shirt he covers his lower body.

I was just thinking that when I was rewatching "Donald Gets Drafted" last weekend.

[Not Afraid]

The Pants Optional aspect to most cartoons always amuses me. Practical Pig wears pants while the other two do not. Pants are practical, I guess.

[innerSpaceman]

It would indeed be practical for a certain genre of "pig."


But that's a subject for another thread .... on a different message board. ;)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

No ... it's that, from the pictures at least, I see only the slightest similarites. Sure, the ears. Uh-huh. But not the face.Funny, that's what clinched it for me. Look again. The muzzle on both of them is tan, and the area around the eyes is black (minus eyebrows, which Goofy does not have). Add that to the overly long, thin and floppy, completely black ears, and I'm convinced.

I won't tell people the coonhound was the inspiration, but I'll believe it myself, regardless of grumpy detractors. ;) Oh, and yeah, nothing makes sense in cartoons.