Is YouTube....bad? [Archive] - Lounge of Tomorrow

Cadaverous Pallor

03-04-2007, 06:18 PM

In LSPE's wedding thread (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=123821#post123821) I got a bit derailed on a conversation with NA that I thought I'd bring out here.

To me, the fact that anyone from anywhere (who has an internet connection) can currently publish their creations in a format that anyone from anywhere (with an internet connection) can instantly see is beyond awesome. This includes - writing, painting, sculpting, filming, you name it.

Obviously if you allow the masses to be heard, there is going to be some crap in there. There are going to be plenty of people who feel talented who really aren't. But to me, that is only a minor side effect of the awesomeness of pure freedom of expression and the ability to be heard.

I was surprised to hear that people might think that totally democratized content was a bad thing. That because there's crap in there, YouTube is not great. As if Hollywood is made up of only wonderful projects? Never mind that you don't have to pay 10 bucks to just see someone else's (possibly crappy) creation.

Anyway - I want to know what you think. I don't think the free internet is to be taken lightly. I see it as a revolution of the most liberating type.

wendybeth

03-04-2007, 06:32 PM

Crap is such a subjective thing. I think any outlet for creativity is nearly always great, and YouTube is a wonderful way for people to put their stuff out there. I'm just waiting to see the first big breakthrough for an artist or director that stems from YouTube exposure.

Strangler Lewis

03-04-2007, 07:13 PM

I'm just waiting to see the first big breakthrough for an artist or director that stems from YouTube exposure.

I think this is not in the spirit of CP's point.

Alex

03-04-2007, 07:19 PM

As an outlet for creative product I think it is great.

However, I also think it is a further blurring of the line between the public and private spheres that I generally abhor. But since I only go to YouTube when pointed to it by someone else (I wouldn't have a clue how to track down my own "you must see this" posts) that half isn't really in my sphere of consciousness.

As a consumer of popular culture I am very much in favor of filters and passivity. In a couple very narrow areas I'm willing to do the work to find the quality things that are good fits for me, but otherwise I like to know that there have been several filters before a movie hits the theaters, or a TV show gets on air, or (more theoretical for me) a song gets on the radio.

A case could be made that it is also an extension of the decline of our attention span (though this is more perceived by me than having any evidence). I recently had a coworker say she liked watching YouTube videos because they're funny and TV shows are too long. She literally just watches YouTube **** whenever she has time. This means that for the most part she has cut herself off from narrative entertainment, hell even from entertainment with a context. The only actual contact with news she's probaby had recently is the video with the Krispy Kreme suck dick graphic.

But she is, I'm sure (and I really hope), and extreme outlier and I don't know if this would make YouTube bad.

But put in the context of an extensively "socialized," decontextualized and isolating online culture I can see it becoming a brick in a wall that is a bad thing for many people.

On the otherhand, as a tool for illegally recoving the electronic ephemera of our past, it is great. Except for the illegal part.

blueerica

03-04-2007, 07:50 PM

Oh, come on, Alex! The illegal part is what makes it juicy! I kid! I kid!

There's a lot of crap out there - and by crap, I mean crap as I define it for myself and not for anyone else. I filter what I watch, and usually what I watch is filtered for me by other people.

I had a friend once make a stupid video with him doing the peanut butter-jelly time dance with his friend because he knew we'd all find it funny to see it on YouTube. 99% of you guys would probably think it was retarded, but I thought it was really great that I was able to see that video without downloading some huge amount of content, without waiting for him to put it on a DVD or having him serve it somewhere. That he could do that was awesome, IMO.

Of course, none of this replaces going to the movies, renting DVDs or at least attempting to lead a healthy lifestyle.

Get down with what you get down with. If you like it, it's good, if you hate it, it's bad. It's true with everything, and that's probably the end of the story for me.

€uroMeinke

03-04-2007, 07:51 PM

In a moral sense? No

Quality-wise, my experience has been more bad than good.

I'm fine with people posting anything and everything on it, I just don't want to see most of it. Usually, I will only follow a link that's been posted by someone else, and then usually only if enough people have commented about it to make it sound worthy. (I generally also do this for posted links to websites.)

The problem I have with You Tube, is I haven't discovered how to easily skim the content as I would a blog or other textual document. Sure there are plenty of long winded boring blogs out there, but the nature of the written word makes it east for me to skim through the paragraphs to pull out any of the content I might enjoy. I can't seem to do that with video - or haven't figured out an analogous behavior yet.

I just wish people would describe links better so I knew whether I really wanted to click on it - "This is funny" doesn't work anymore. But that's my issue and no body else's - clearly people are cracking themselves up over these things and some is even making it to network TV. Honestly though, I confess this delivery method is much better than getting a "funny" video in an email.

I find still images easier to digest, rarely use the video feature of my camera, and when I do it's usually for one viewing before I delete it. Maybe if YouTube had porn I'd be more interested.

blueerica

03-04-2007, 07:53 PM

I think they have a PornTube - or something like that.

€uroMeinke

03-04-2007, 08:09 PM

I think they have a PornTube - or something like that.

And knowing the internet - that is where the technology for YouTube was probably developed and perfected ;)

Alex

03-04-2007, 08:28 PM

Now that I think about it, for many people spamming a friends list with a funny YouTube video is somehow once again acceptable. Just after they were all trained to stop sending me that crappy email joke of the day or the glurgy partriotic tribute or the latest "your couch could be killing" urban legend.

Ghoulish Delight

03-04-2007, 08:28 PM

And knowing the internet - that is where the technology for YouTube was probably developed and perfected ;)Surprisingly no, the porn versions are rather useless.

So I've heard.

Alex

03-04-2007, 08:31 PM

When it comes to amateur porn at least one layer of filters is a very good thing.

Just because two people are naked and rubbing bits is not enough reason to subject other people to it. There needs to be some minimum of skill and production value to the enterprise.

Or so GD's heard.

wendybeth

03-04-2007, 08:38 PM

I think this is not in the spirit of CP's point.
I get CP's point, but she did ask for our thoughts, and I think that it's very likely that someone (who might not otherwise have in 'in') will very probably produce something that will be taken notice of by .....oh, forget it. I have to say that I really don't care enough about You Tube to quibble over perceptions.

€uroMeinke

03-04-2007, 08:43 PM

Alex

03-04-2007, 08:56 PM

I think I might prefer the text version. Because as you say the description that accompanies the YouTube link is generally "you've go tto see this" or "Funny!"

And I feel kind of obligated to look on the off chance that it is the funniest thing since grandma broke her hip. At least with the stupid/glurgy/legendy emails I can read the first two lines see it is crap and then delete it.

Not Afraid

03-04-2007, 09:04 PM

Is YouTube "bad"? As Chris said, morally? No. But, there's a LOT of bad crap that ends up there - more bad than good IMO. Personally, I think it's a giant waste of time and, of all of the hundreds of links I've been pointed to on YouTube, I think maybe 5 were actually worth viewing. I just don't have the time nor the inclination to watch sub-par videos. I don't even watch TV because I can't seem to find anything that is worth watching in amongst all of the crap. I certainly don't want to spend my time passivly watching someone else's stupid pet tricks or whatever it is.

I'm sure there are good things on YouTube, but I'm not up for finding the needle in the very large haystack.

Now, if the Bruce and Norman Yonemoto, The Damaged Californians, Bill Viola, Hidja Keating posted their videos on YouTube, I'd be all over it, but that kind of thoughtful presentation doesn't seem to be available on YouTube.

blueerica

03-04-2007, 09:14 PM

I think I might prefer the text version. Because as you say the description that accompanies the YouTube link is generally "you've go tto see this" or "Funny!"

Well, I wasn't sure if he was referring to what was under the YouTube video itself. Oftentimes, descriptions in YouTube are keyworded properly, if you're lucky, or it's keyworded with stuff that isn't even relevant to the subject being viewed.

I use YouTube for refreshing my memory on certain work topics, I catch old commercials. Sadly, I have to sift through badly keyworded items because someone wanted to get more hits on their video of dumb skateboarding tricks.

mousepod

03-04-2007, 09:37 PM

Now, if the Bruce and Norman Yamamoto, The Damaged Californians, Bill Viola, Hidja Keating posted their videos on YouTube, I'd be all over it, but that kind of thoughtful presentation doesn't seem to be available on YouTube.

This is for you, NA. (http://www.ubu.com/film/)

Not Afraid

03-04-2007, 09:56 PM

This is for you, NA. (http://www.ubu.com/film/)

That's a great site! There used to something similar where I saw many a video - it may have been first generation of this. Love it. Thanks, Jesse!

(Oh, and nice la Chien Andalus graphic!)

flippyshark

03-04-2007, 11:24 PM

One thing I don't like about YouTube is that the video compression makes everything look extra-crappy. Convenience trumps quality a lot in this digital age, and YouTube is a pretty extreme case in point.

innerSpaceman

03-04-2007, 11:30 PM

I'm sure there are good things on YouTube, but I'm not up for finding the needle in the very large haystack...I don't even watch TV because I can't seem to find anything that is worth watching in amongst all of the crap.
And I abstain from TV for the same reason. But when many people whose tastes I feel akin to recommend a series, I'll eventually Netflix the DVDs. Most times, I've enjoyed those suggested shows.

Similarly, I wouldn't browse YouTube on my own, even if I had a clue as to how. But I watch most linked-to videos, and have rarely been too disappointed. Oftentimes, in fact, I've been very glad to have something pointed out to me that I wouldn't have otherwise seen.

I like our YouTubery thread here on the LoT ... and I'm glad when something is sort of "must see" that gets a separate thread outside of that (the recent George Takei thing comes to mine ... lordy I'm glad I saw that).

If I'm going to link to some YouTube thing, I try to give a hint as to what's on the other end. But I'll click on the generic "funny" if I trust the sense of humor of the link's creator. At worst, a bad YouTube video has wasted 3 minutes of my time. A television series on DVD has the capacity to waste far more than that.

Meanwhile, the inventors of YouTube were selected (indirectly) as Time Magazine's Men of the Year ... no small feat. Bad or good, YouTube has ratcheted-up the use of the internet in a revolutionary way. Personally, I don't feel like putting Day of the Mold out there for all the world to see ... but huzzah and good luck to all those who want to share their stuff (or other people's stuff) with the rest of the planet.

Ghoulish Delight

03-04-2007, 11:35 PM

Is YouTube "bad"? As Chris said, morally? No. But, there's a LOT of bad crap that ends up there - more bad than good IMO...I just don't have the time nor the inclination to watch sub-par videos. Yeah, but I used to feel, and to a large degree still feel, the same way about music. There's a lot of crap out there playing in bars and clubs and lame-ass coffee houses. And I'm sure somewhere in there is some great stuff that's totally worth seeing, even if they'll never bet big. But I never had the inclination to commit enough time and energy to checking out the local and underground music scene. Doesn't mean I don't completely appreciate the underground music scene for what it is. It give anyone a chance to give it a shot, it gives those that want to commit the time and energy to pay attention to find those great gems, and it acts as kind of a natural filter for stuff with broader appeal to get some air play.

I see YouTube as creating the same kind of culture and community for video. It's finally reached the accessibility that music has had for the last century or so. I spend little to no time at YouTube and allow blogs to be my guide. Much as I spend little to no time in bars or independent record shops and allow KCRW to be my guide.

flippyshark

03-04-2007, 11:36 PM

Day of the Mold? Dare I ask?

Oh, and my brother just uploaded a bunch of alleged comedy that he, I and a bunch of our friends did on Public Access TV twenty plus years ago. I haven't revisited any of it in a long time, but I'll post a link if there's anything that seems worth it. (Don't hold your breath. We were enthusiastic but not especially entertaining.)

Ghoulish Delight

03-04-2007, 11:45 PM

Personally, I don't feel like putting Day of the Mold out there for all the world to see ... but huzzah and good luck to all those who want to share their stuff (or other people's stuff) with the rest of the planet.
Of course, coinciding with YouTube's rise to power has been the increase in accessibility of individuals having their own hosting service. As Euro (blast the freaking symbol's annoying to do on a laptop) discovered when he began pondering a board of his own, it's dirt cheap to get some storage space and a url. And it doesn't take much skill to get a video uploaded and give people a link. So those who want to fly a little lower than YouTube's radar and just keep things between friends (without the hastle of YouTube's cumbersome procedure for sharing private videos) can do so with relative ease.

Not that I'm suggesting you post DotM (I don't particularly relish the thought of our old videos going out on YouTube, but if the rest of our 'cast' is amused by the idea, I don't mind), just made me realize that there are a preponderance of outlets for the amateur videographer these days.

wendybeth

03-04-2007, 11:46 PM

Yeah, but I used to feel, and to a large degree still feel, the same way about music. There's a lot of crap out there playing in bars and clubs and lame-ass coffee houses. And I'm sure somewhere in there is some great stuff that's totally worth seeing, even if they'll never bet big. But I never had the inclination to commit enough time and energy to checking out the local and underground music scene. Doesn't mean I don't completely appreciate the underground music scene for what it is. It give anyone a chance to give it a shot, it gives those that want to commit the time and energy to pay attention to find those great gems, and it acts as kind of a natural filter for stuff with broader appeal to get some air play.

I see YouTube as creating the same kind of culture and community for video. It's finally reached the accessibility that music has had for the last century or so. I spend little to no time at YouTube and allow blogs to be my guide. Much as I spend little to no time in bars or independent record shops and allow KCRW to be my guide.

Exactly what I wanted to convey in my prior post, only much better stated.:snap:

€uroMeinke

03-04-2007, 11:46 PM

Yeah, but I used to feel, and to a large degree still feel, the same way about music.

I totally get that, and I guess for me it's one of the ways in which I've discovered I'm more of an aural instead of visual person. Somehow, I find it easier to sort through music than I do video. You Tube tends to frustrate me in ways that music sites just don't.

But, I don't knock media, I did enjoy the choreographed Mentos & Diet Pepsi extravaganza, as well as the copyright infringing content.

Not Afraid

03-05-2007, 08:19 PM

I guess I have more of a "zest" for music, plus I can experience it while I'm doing other things, so I don't find it annoying and time consuming. Plus, no one has ever sent me an email saying YOU MUST LISTEN TO THIS BAND, THEY'RE SO FUNNY!!!!! That's a huge bonus to me.

Ghoulish Delight

03-05-2007, 08:21 PM

I don't really have the patience for either. I don't browse YouTube, preferring to trust the word of blogs and friends whose opinion has proven reliable, and I rarely spend time seeking out music. But I totally get why people would do either and I think both media benefit from having outlets of free expression.

€uroMeinke

03-05-2007, 08:26 PM

YOU MUST LISTEN TO THIS BAND, THEY'RE SO FUNNY!!!!! That's a huge bonus to me.

You know this give me pause to think it may have more to do with sense of humor than media. If I think about it, I love short subjects, enjoy vintage and foreign TV commercials, as well as Japanese game shows - by all rights, I ought to love You Tube. But I don't, despite my personal collection of videos I've snatched elsewhere on the internet (besides porn). So maybe it's that a lot of things that people find funny, really don't amuse me that much?

Not Afraid

03-05-2007, 08:41 PM

I think the concept of YouTube is great. I just find the actuality of it to be rather anoying and trying. I don't think my life improved too much with the addition of 300 possible television channels (which is probably why I don't subscribe to any additional channels) and I don't see much improvement with yet another way to view a lot of schlock. Sure, there's good stuff there amongst the crap - just like television - but I'd rather have a good conversation, read a book, or share newfound music. It's just a matter of personal preference.

RStar

03-05-2007, 11:50 PM

I think YouTube is great, just because of the opertunity it gives people. You can play with it, and accomplish little or a lot. It's up to you.

I don't brows, but links that are posted here I have usually enjoyed. Thanks to those that post them!

Also, with the advent of small video cameras and phones in combination with YouTube, it's much easier to force accountability on large companies, governent and Police, or rat infested resturants.

This can be a good thing, but yes, it can be abused. Spreading rummors, posting videos that were taken without consent, etc. can do alot of damage.

So much like nuclear power, it can do a lot of good, or a lot of bad.

€uroMeinke

03-05-2007, 11:54 PM

So much like nuclear power, it can do a lot of good, or a lot of bad.

I want You Nuke!

blueerica

03-06-2007, 12:05 AM

YouNuke would be pretty cool.

lashbear

03-06-2007, 06:08 AM

I think they have a PornTube - or something like that.

And knowing the internet - that is where the technology for YouTube was probably developed and perfected ;)

Surprisingly no, the porn versions are rather useless.
So I've heard.

http://www.xtube.com/index.php (Most indupitibly not safe for work, or with younguns around, but if you're over-age, then give it a poke.)

It's also free.

So.... thurrrrrrrrrrrr, ....the milkman! That's who! the Milkman told me. I've never seen it for myself. :blush:

innerSpaceman

03-06-2007, 08:16 AM

Plus, no one has ever sent me an email saying YOU MUST LISTEN TO THIS BAND, THEY'RE SO FUNNY!!!!! That's a huge bonus to me.
See, and feeling it's much more valuable to be turned on to good music than funny videos ... I would LOVE if friends would send me links to great songs ... and potentially turn me on to music I would never otherwise have enjoyed.

Stan4dSteph

03-06-2007, 08:30 AM

I'm in the habit of checking out the free singles of the week at iTunes on Tuesdays.

Snowflake

03-06-2007, 08:52 AM

I'm in the habit of checking out the free singles of the week at iTunes on Tuesdays.

I need to check that, but I never get the notification from iTunes on the free Tuesday stuff until Wednesday, which I can't quite figure out.

Stan4dSteph

03-06-2007, 09:26 AM

I need to check that, but I never get the notification from iTunes on the free Tuesday stuff until Wednesday, which I can't quite figure out.They're available all week. They just change over on Tuesdays. :)

Not Afraid

03-06-2007, 11:18 AM

See, and feeling it's much more valuable to be turned on to good music than funny videos ... I would LOVE if friends would send me links to great songs ... and potentially turn me on to music I would never otherwise have enjoyed.

What did you think of the 10 or so DVDs we burned for you? There's a lot more where that came from.