Chastity Rings

[3894]

Will you be wearing one of these? (http://www.purityrings.com/)

[Ghoulish Delight]

I remember reading at least one study that showed that kids who went through an abstinence program that included this kind of chastity/promise ring were MORE likely to have premarital sex than those who didn't.

[3894]

Hmmm, a couple of hundred dollars for a purity ring or a new pair of cute shoes? Oh, how will I ever decide!

[mousepod]

You wear it on your finger? Where's the fun in that?

[Not Afraid]

When I touch one, it burns my hand!

[SacTown Chronic]

Good thing I saw this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070309/sc_livescience/youcanttravelbackintimescientistssay) before I wasted money on a chastity ring for Crystal.

[Ponine]

When I touch one, it burns my hand!

I'm with NA, I certainly can't wear one.
But what an interesting idea.

Though I also think GD is right... in my personal experience, those young people who are 'saving' themselves, are no different than the others really.

[€uroMeinke]

I think the belts are probably more effective

[Capt Jack]

Im of the mind 'get that thing away from me!'...so yeah, likely I'd burst into a firestorm.

"Abstinence is the only true perversion" comes to mind. heard it eons ago...dont recall where or why, it just sort of stuck in my head. not that I agree with it entirely, but perhaps the church would have fewer 'incidents' if the clergy were allowed to let that part of their lives find release rather than (fail in trying to) suppress it.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Why spend it on a ring when I look like I do?

[Ponine]

"Abstinence is the only true perversion" comes to mind. heard it eons ago...dont recall where or why, it just sort of stuck in my head. not that I agree with it entirely, but perhaps the church would have fewer 'incidents' if the clergy were allowed to let that part of their lives find release rather than (fail in trying to) suppress it.

I dont think the point is to ask the clergy to wear them Capt'.

[Nephythys]

doesn't anyone have any honor or respect for kids who actually exercise self-respect and self-control?

[Alex]

Sure. Less so, though, for people who feel the need to put it on display.

[Ghoulish Delight]

doesn't anyone have any honor or respect for kids who actually exercise self-respect and self-control?
As someone who himself waited a long time, of course I do. What I don't have respect for is inane "systems" and "programs" that preach ignorance or rely on some sort of weird external symbolism rather than actually teaching kids to make intelligent decisions for themselves.

Like I said, at least one study has shown that these stupid rings and the message that goes with them make things worse. Just as many studies have shown that "abstinence-only programs" have had a similar non effect or negative effect (even when the text books distort the facts to make sex seem more dangerous than it even is in reality).

Honesty and knowledge are parents' and society's best weapons. I wish they would be used more.

[Strangler Lewis]

I would think there'd be nothing hotter than to think that the stranger watching you through the slanted blinds was God.

[Nephythys]

Sure. Less so, though, for people who feel the need to put it on display.

Is a wedding ring for display? Or a symbol of a promise?

Those rings are not meant to say to the world "lookit me, I'm saving myself"- they are for the person to look at and remember a promise they made to themselves.

Funny how that works- it's ok to save yourself, it's ok to believe in something- but keep it to yourself.

I'm conservative- I encourage my kids to wait. But I don't make them live in the dark about the reality of the topic. If one of them chose to wear one of those rings I would be pleased to support them in their choice.

[Disneyphile]

I have one, but it's really tarnished and won't polish up for some reason. ;)

(On a side note: I have a friend in her late 20's who has made that decision for herself, but it's not faith-based at all. I've always supported her. :) )

[Nephythys]

Not all choices like that have anything to do with faith- they have everything to do with self-respect, self-love and a choice to wait until something it exactly as you want and need it to be.

-and self-control but I know that's not "cool" these days.

[Alex]

Is a wedding ring for display? Or a symbol of a promise?

Mostly the former, in my opinion. Symbols of promises are silly.

[Nephythys]

Mostly the former, in my opinion. Symbols of promises are silly.

ah-

I don't believe so. Not that one needs a ring to remember the promise- but the symbolism clearly means something to most people- or else the wedding ring tradition would be dying off.

[innerSpaceman]

Hey, I'm all for reminders of whatever. Since the string around the finger is the classic reminder, a ring sorta makes sense.

I once got a tattoo as a reminder ... and I often wish I'd just picked some jewelry.

[Nephythys]

Do we dare ask? :)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

VAM - Visible Alex Mojo on guns vs sex.

GD referred to the fact that we waited. In fact, we waited until we made a similarly symbolic promise to each other.

I have no problem with many of the concepts behind the Chastity Ring. I myself wasn't ready for sex in high school. I knew I should wait and I'm sure plenty of other kids know this too. I don't care if it's born of religion or common sense. Yet I can't believe that EVERYONE needs to wait until the exact same stage in life.

What gets me is the concept that people who have sex are not pure. The words chastity and chaste also carry meanings involving being virtuous (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chastity) or free from obscenity (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chaste). The idea that sex is "obscene" is offensive to me. The idea that these supposedly chaste kids are being taught that those that do have sex are being obscene is very, very offensive to me.

[tracilicious]

I recently read an article about continuum parenting/tribal cultures. The article cited a study that showed that tribes that didn't have tabboos on premarital sex were the least violent. Maybe the gun/sex thing goes together more than we know. Maybe those rings encourage violence. :p

[scaeagles]

My daughter has a chastity ring. Not one of those in particular - something we purchased at a jewelry store that isn't a "chastity ring", but just a ring she liked.

We didn't give it to her to say "sex is a horrid thing and we don't want to talk about it, just don't do it." When we had "the talk" (both of us with her), it wasn't that sex was bad - quite the opposite (much to her dismay). It was primarily about the mechanics and emotions involved.

It was also about consequences, both emotional and physical.

What can a parent do but instill value in their child, and what values do I have to instill in my child except my own? If I did not think they were best, I would not have them as my values. We happen to think (for reasons far too numerous to share, religious reasons among them) that waiting until marriage is best.

The ring she wears isn't about some sort of taboo...it's a reminder to her of what we've talked about and to hang on to what is special.

When she is on her own, she will make her own choices. I cannot be sure that she will do what we think is best. All we can do is try to teach her what we think is best, and that ring is a small symbol of what we've talked about.

[tracilicious]

What can a parent do but instill value in their child, and what values do I have to instill in my child except my own? If I did not think they were best, I would not have them as my values. We happen to think (for reasons far too numerous to share, religious reasons among them) that waiting until marriage is best.

The ring she wears isn't about some sort of taboo...it's a reminder to her of what we've talked about and to hang on to what is special.

When she is on her own, she will make her own choices. I cannot be sure that she will do what we think is best. All we can do is try to teach her what we think is best, and that ring is a small symbol of what we've talked about.


I think that's a really beautiful story. I've been thinking about sex a lot lately. Particularly as it relates to my kids. Im not sure what information I want to convey to them on the subject.

While I certainly don't want them having sex until they are ready, I'm not sure if no sex before marriage is ideal. Did you wait until you were married to have sex? Anybody else here? I did. Nearly everyone in my social circle back then did. I don't recommend it. While it is nice knowing that we've only been with each other, it isn't that big a deal. I've known so many people that got married rashly or too young because they wanted to have sex. I've also known people who got married and had a really rough start at a sex life because sex had been put on this very high pedestal. Sex is somewhat clumsy at first I think, at least for two people that are completely inexperienced. That can get a marriage off to a rough start.

I wouldn't want my kids making a commitment because of sex, nor would I want them staying in a relationship because of sex, but on the other hand they'll probably feel a great deal more fulfilled if they feel a commitment to the person they're having sex with. So while I don't want them to treat it casually (at least not at first), I don't want to make it this huge all important thing either.

[lashbear]

I didn't need any jewelry - I "saved myself" for years.

...then I realised I wasn't generating any interest......

Now I'm spending myself willy nilly and I qualify for lower fees and charges.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

scaeagles - I totally respect what you're going for for your kids. I'm going to have a very similar talk with my future children. I'm not going to push waiting until marriage but I am going to push waiting until they're ready.

However, I've got a question - are there any other conversations with your kids that require jewelry to remind them of? Do you get them bracelets for not using drugs or a necklace for not playing with guns? Or maybe another ring will remind them to look both ways before crossing the street?

Yeah, I'm being a bit over the top but the point is salient. The deal with the Chastity Rings usually is an "I'm married to God until I marry someone else because I want to remain Pure" kind of deal. If that's not the point of the ring, then what is? A visual reminder to be good? Or an actual bribe?

Again, I mean no disrespect but I do not get this concept outside of the "sex is dirty" context.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't really have a problem with this kind of thing coming from the parent. It's the "programs" that are pushed that bug me. And before anyone can say, "You support sex ed from schools, why not this?" the message of proper sex ed is, "If you do X or Y, these are the facts you should know," not, "You better promise to do X or Y (or not do X or Y)." Big difference, imo.

Along the lines of CP's post, this had me thinking of DARE. I generally liked DARE as a kid. I agreed with the message, and it really did help me stay completely away from drugs through school. But I HATED when they'd do any sort of ribbon or bracelet thing (like tying ribbons to the school fence). Even as an elementary school kid, I saw that as completely pointless and insulting. What exactly was wrong with the actual information I was getting that I needed some stupid ribbon to really make it count? I distinctly remember that while the majority of my classes took the actual education part of DARE pretty seriously, we would openly mock the stupid ribbon events.

[Strangler Lewis]

The deal with the Chastity Rings usually is an "I'm married to God until I marry someone else because I want to remain Pure" kind of deal. If that's not the point of the ring, then what is? A visual reminder to be good? Or an actual bribe?

Again, I mean no disrespect but I do not get this concept outside of the "sex is dirty" context.

At my wife's old church, one of the women in the choir grew tired of singing year after year about how Mary was free from defilement. She complained and the relatively openminded priest and gay choir director agreed to change "defilement" to "corruption." This was counted as a victory. Sex was still dirty, but corruption implied that the woman was complicit in the dirt. Defilement implied that she was a passive empty vessel, but stained nonetheless.

[AllyOops!]

I'm going to go all Mombo (read: Mom-like) here: I like those rings, and even more so the message behind them. Plus, those rings aren't an obnoxious proclamation. What I'm trying to convey here is that they are rather elegant and discreet. I think they are lovely in design and message. Certainly one wears a wedding band as a reminder of one's wedding vows. I mean, it's not a belly tee-shirt that says in monster glitter letters "ASK ME ABOUT MY INTACT HYMEN AND WHY".Y'know?

If you know me, I kid around ALOT. Especially sexually. I'm quite upfront. However, in real life? I'm quite the opposite and shy. But that wasn't the question here, was it? I certainly don't judge anybody's sex life. I keep my inflatable sheep to myself and hope others do the same. :p

Sigh. It looks like I'll have to keep wearin' my ruby encrusted "popped cherry" knuckle rock. ;)

[wendybeth]

Lol, Ally!:D


(Just this afternoon I saw a Hello Kitty toy and thought of you- good to see you!)

[Capt Jack]

once again, a classic line I shall refrain from adding to quotes

[BarTopDancer]

once again, a classic line I shall refrain from adding to quotes

:evil:

[scaeagles]

However, I've got a question - are there any other conversations with your kids that require jewelry to remind them of?

I wear a wedding ring. That is a symbol of my commitment to my wife, and among that is sexual relations with only her. So in that way it is similar - it is a wait until marriage symbol.

Jewelry has all sorts of different symbolism. My three girls (being my wife and daughters) have add a pearl necklaces that gets a pearl added every birthday. There are many other examples.

I suppose it's just what you choose to commemorate with jewelry.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I wear a wedding ring. That is a symbol of my commitment to my wife, and among that is sexual relations with only her. So in that way it is similar - it is a wait until marriage symbol.

Jewelry has all sorts of different symbolism. My three girls (being my wife and daughters) have add a pearl necklaces that gets a pearl added every birthday. There are many other examples.

I suppose it's just what you choose to commemorate with jewelry.

I'm thinking about designing a chastity toaster.

[wendybeth]

I'm thinking about designing a chastity toaster.


Perfection.:snap:


:D

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I wear a wedding ring. That is a symbol of my commitment to my wife, and among that is sexual relations with only her. So in that way it is similar - it is a wait until marriage symbol.

Jewelry has all sorts of different symbolism. My three girls (being my wife and daughters) have add a pearl necklaces that gets a pearl added every birthday. There are many other examples.

I suppose it's just what you choose to commemorate with jewelry.Let me see if I have this right. You are commemorating the conversation. Having a birthday - or, by extension, graduating from high school or retiring from work - are milestones to be counted alongside "had the sex talk".

I find that interesting, mostly because I knew about sex as soon as I knew about anything else in this world and learned the details gra. As for lessons on moderation, each thing in it's own time, politeness and modesty and love....I got those every single day as well. I could never attribute my stance on sex from one conversation with my parents, or one moment of "decision".

You could try counter by saying weddings and wedding rings are the same deal, but a wedding really is a change, a turning of a corner. If you were sexually active and decided to quit getting laid (and I do mean "decided"), that would make more sense to me as a "jewelry moment". Much how like AA members celebrate their "birthday".

[wendybeth]

Omg- I Googled 'Chastity Toaster' and got a Frat Blog (http://www.monash.edu.au/halls/farhalls/newsArchive.php).

Uhm, Scaeagles? I think you have some explaining to do......:evil:

[SacTown Chronic]

Last week I taught my daughter that all you can do is get your chips into the pot with the best hand and the rest is beyond your control so don't sweat it. We commemorated this lesson with a pinkie ring with the ace of spades engraved on it.

Yesterday I explained that it is tacky to "upgrade" your drink when someone offers to buy the next round. I bought her a minature shot glass necklace that she is to wear as a constant reminder.




Now where's my FOTY trophy and Applebees gift card?

[Snowflake]

Hmmm, a couple of hundred dollars for a purity ring or a new pair of cute shoes? Oh, how will I ever decide!

No question, shoes, my dear.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Someone pointed me to a study that's probably the one I was thinking of in my earlier post.

The results were...mixed:

* Students taking a pledge of virginity were indeed more likely to delay sexual activity (by an average of 18 months)
* It was most effective for students between 15 and 17 years old, and had no effect on students over 18
* While the delay until initiation of sexual activity was about 1/3 longer among those that took the pledge...they were 1/3 less likely to have protected sex once they did become sexually active
* Only 12% of the participants remained abstinent until marriage
* The effectiveness of the pledge decreased when a larger percentage of a school's population took the pledge.

link (http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2001/nichd-04.htm)

[Alex]

As with everything else we do, the important thing is to mean it, not just do it because the people around you are. A contract made under (social) duress is void in the eyes of the signer.

[Nephythys]

As with everything else we do, the important thing is to mean it, not just do it because the people around you are. A contract made under (social) duress is void in the eyes of the signer.

Peer pressure is anything but void.

[Alex]

in the eye of the signer, I said.

There may be very good reasons for the peer pressure but if the person who goes along with it only does so because of the pressure (not because they believe in the reasons) then they aren't going to feel particularly bound by the commitment.

The reason why you commit is more important than the commitment. Believing that it is best to wait until marriage and not explicitly making the promise is likely (in my view) to be more effective than not really believing it but making the promise anyway (which would explain why effectiveness goes down as a "program" induces more kids in a population to do it; when a small population does it, it is the kids who already have internalized that idea but as you expand you get the kids who just want a piece of jewelry or are doing it because Susan is doing it).

[Not Afraid]

The problem with chastity rings is that chasity is not something to be proud of. sorry people, but sex is NOT a bad thing!

[scaeagles]

I'm not saying sex is a bad thing. Neither are guns. Nor drugs. Nor alcohol. Things are not bad in and of themselves, it is the usage of such things that is...bad, or better said, inappropriate.

Sex for my 13 year old daughter would, in fact, be bad. I say this without hesitation and unapologetically.

And I'm not sure why these rings are offensive or even made fun of, really. I don't see the big deal.

CP, what makes a birthday more special than any other day of the year? Seriously. It is simply the same as any other day. Simply a passage of time. It is just something that is chosen to be comemorated. What makes a bar mitzvah special? Is the turning of 13 supposed to magically make you a man? Different cultures, religions, people groups, whatever, have different tradtitions and things they place value on. This is something we place a high value on.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

CP, what makes a birthday more special than any other day of the year? Seriously. It is simply the same as any other day. Simply a passage of time. It is just something that is chosen to be comemorated. What makes a bar mitzvah special? Is the turning of 13 supposed to magically make you a man? Different cultures, religions, people groups, whatever, have different tradtitions and things they place value on. This is something we place a high value on.On the topic of the specialness of holidays and celebrations, I feel that people are a forgetful species and often the day-to-day can blind us to the passage of time. Constructs like birthdays and holidays force us to stop and take notice. My younger brother brought up the subject the other day saying "why give gifts on bdays? It's such a phony construct. Why not just give a gift to someone you love on some other day, just because?" My response was "because people won't."

Again, I'd like to bounce this back to you. You place a high value on the fact that you taught your child a valuable lesson. To me, this lesson is the same as any other valuable lesson we teach our children. I could list 25 equally important lessons off the top of my head and I'm sure if I had time I could come up with hundreds. Why does this one get jewelry, or require a physical reminder, or however you want to phrase it?

If you want to compare a Bar Mitzvah to this, I have to say again that they are different things. A Bar Mitzvah is a change, a turned corner. It's a graduation from Hebrew school. It's a culmination of skills in Hebrew and understanding the Torah. You are treated as an adult in the synagogue and perform multiple adult-only good deeds in front of the congregation for the first time. It's an achievement, a graduation into the adult world, and from then on the 13 year old is treated as an adult in the congregation.

I'm not saying sex is a bad thing. Neither are guns. Nor drugs. Nor alcohol. Things are not bad in and of themselves, it is the usage of such things that is...bad, or better said, inappropriate.

Sex for my 13 year old daughter would, in fact, be bad. I say this without hesitation and unapologetically.

And I'm not sure why these rings are offensive or even made fun of, really. I don't see the big deal.I obviously agree that your 13 year old shouldn't be having sex. As I said before, I will have similar talks with my kids. The offensive part is the concept of "chastity".

What if I wore a ring to show that I was "Pure" because I didn't drink alcohol? Or one to show that I've never touched a gun? "I've never been sullied with weaponry" I'd think to myself. I'd also have a Purity Ring because I had promised to eat only foods that were high in nutritional value.

The connotation is that those that eat fatty foods are bad. That those that choose to use guns are bad, that those that drink socially are bad, and that those that have sex before marriage are bad. IMHO, this is closed-minded thinking.

I will tell my child, both explicitly and implicitly, how I feel on these issues. "We choose not to own guns because we don't like guns. We choose to drink alcohol socially. We chose to have sex before marriage but not until we were engaged. This is how we view the world and we present you with our values. You are not better than people that use guns or drink more often or have sex earlier. We feel that these are better choices, and while we strongly urge you to follow them from our own experiences, in no way do we claim that we know everything."

[innerSpaceman]

Sex for my 13 year old daughter would, in fact, be bad. I say this without hesitation and unapologetically.
You're perfectly within your rights to feel when sex is appropriate for your daughter.

And yet, I have to wonder what's objectively wrong with sex at 13 when nature clearly designed (most) humans to be quite ready for sex at 13 (and well, because I was having sex at 13 ... and the girl was somebody's daughter).

[scaeagles]

CP, you're right - there are innumerable valuable lessons. For us, the linking of the ring to the sex talk is because we link sex to marriage, and marriage typically involves the exchange of rings.

The whole concept of "pure" relates to the biblical concept of sexual purity. This is the standard the we (speaking of my family) try to live up to but inevitably fall short of. The knowledge of failure does not mean the goal of acheiving it is any less important. I'm just not capable of doing it...I find myself rabbit trailing into doctrine, which is not my goal whatsoever.

And to bring up ISM's point, age has a lot to do with it. We didn't talk to our daughter about it when she was 4. We talked about it when her physical body was mature enough. Many cultures throughout history have had marriages (or something similar) at much younger ages. In that way, CP, it was much like a Bar Mitzvah. It was a change for her in physical maturity and the responsibility associated with it.

If wearing a ring or some such thing as a symbol that you don't drink alcohol, and to you that is related to some concept of purity, more power to you. I guess I don't understand why this is a problem for anyone.

I do agree with you that there are certain stigma associated with behavior. More and more so on all sides of the spectrum, and often this is because of what is deemed in the "public interest". Smoking has a huge stigma associated with it that I think is ridiculous (spoken as a non smoker who does not enjoy being around it). What I fear isn't that people don't like it, but that society as a whole deems something as unacceptable too costly to society and therefore systematically criminalizes it (which is what smoking has becoming and fatty foods will at some point). That's my concern....not that someone chooses something important to them - whatever it may be - to mark in a special way, be that with a ring or a tattoo.

[3894]

And yet, I have to wonder what's objectively wrong with sex at 13 when nature clearly designed (most) humans to be quite ready for sex at 13 (and well, because I was having sex at 13 ... and the girl was somebody's daughter).

Lots of cultures would agree with you (pre-marital sex - often promiscuous - for young teen girls and boys).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

CP, you're right - there are innumerable valuable lessons. For us, the linking of the ring to the sex talk is because we link sex to marriage, and marriage typically involves the exchange of rings.Off the top of my head - concepts that, to me, are just as important to healthy marriages/relationships as good sex habits: Trust, sharing, commitment, empathy, responsibility, honesty. I still don't get why "not having sex until marriage" is the one that gets the ring.

The whole concept of "pure" relates to the biblical concept of sexual purity. This is the standard the we (speaking of my family) try to live up to but inevitably fall short of.Ok, right there is the problem that you're not getting. You're saying you try to live up to this purity concept but "fall short". From that we infer that other people that decide to have sex earlier are definitely "falling short". This in turn says that people that have sex when they feel they have reached the correct point to do so are UNPURE. This insults all those people and I think that's wrong.

This is my last post on this - I don't think I could make it any more clear than that.

[tracilicious]

Ok, right there is the problem that you're not getting. You're saying you try to live up to this purity concept but "fall short". From that we infer that other people that decide to have sex earlier are definitely "falling short". This in turn says that people that have sex when they feel they have reached the correct point to do so are UNPURE. This insults all those people and I think that's wrong.


This is the bible's stance on it. I disagree, and largely think the bible is full of crap. But that's what it says.

[Alex]

Eh, we all have areas where we've established what we think should be universal standards of behavior towards which everybody should strive. And we think them failures (at minimum, sometimes we think the failure should be punished) if they don't.

Different people just include different things in that category.

There really isn't any way to say (whether publicly or within a community of similar thinkers, or just to yourself) "there are standards of behavior that are good for reasons completely external to myself" without being viewed as judging the people who don't live up to it, even if they don't agree in the first place.

I do agree that it seems to odd (I'm judging scaeagles for falling short of my view of ideal behavior) to commemorate this one point in what he tries to teach his children. But then I think celebrating birthdays is wildly narcissistic, wedding rings are odd (yes, I wear one but only because it is important to Lani and that makes it important to me), hanging your high school graduation tassel from your rear view mirror mildly pathetic, tombstones kind of creepy, and war memorials shallow gestures.

All in all I find the personal and societal urge to look backwards and to publicly proclaim the private to be a pathology to which I'm immune (and, yes, I recognize that technically it is not society that is pathological but me that is too some degree sociopathic).

I don't really care that other people do these things (I find it odd, but they aren't hurting me so I don't really care) and don't view any of it as a judgment on me, even if it is. I'm sure that I do many things scaeagles would consider immoral and I'm pretty sure he does at least one thing I consider immoral.

Maybe we should all wear jewelry professing all our beliefs and behaviors so that we can properly and immediately judge everybody else. Or maybe stop making public declarations of our personal beliefs and behaviors so we don't feel compelled to judge and be judged.

[SacTown Chronic]

We to try to teach our children lessons that will stick with them for life, so chastity rings make no sense to us. Sex talks with our children tend to be focused more on the "who" than the "when".


Now a ring that serves as a promise to not date dickheads of questionable character might be something I'd be interested in.

[3894]

Yes but are chastity rings really intended as a symbol for the wearer or an identifier to others? That's my main question in this.

[SacTown Chronic]

My feeling is that they are an identifier to others.

(As is my wedding ring. I'm with Alex on this one.... I don't wear a ring for me, I wear it for my wife. My druthers would be to wear no jewelry at all.)


A true promise made to oneself without the forces of external pressure would, imo, probably be something more private and discreet than a ring displayed to the world.

[Not Afraid]

Yes but are chastity rings really intended as a symbol for the wearer or an identifier to others? That's my main question in this.

It it probably an identifier to others. Sort of like the "Slut Ring" I wore when I was younger. ;)

[Nephythys]

I think it is a symbol to the wearer.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It can be either and I'm sure it means different things to different people.

Like I said before, I don't take issue with this kind of thing stemming from parents' approaches to communicating with their children. It's not a technique I would use, nor would I wait until they've reached puberty to begin educating my children, but that's not my decision to make for others.

What irritates me is the pushing of the rings in the context of some sort of program or in an effort to get the kids to identify with some sort of collective pledge or promise. And I think the results of that study to a very good job of illustrating why it irks me.

[scaeagles]

I doubt anyone who sees the ring my daughter wears would give it a second look. It's not for others, it's for her. It's just a ring. Why would this be seen as some huge outward proclamation?

I honestly do not understand why the personal standards of anyone could be offensive to others unless I am shouting from the rooftops that anyone who doesn't share my standards is abhorrent. It isn't as if my personal standards are to walk naked down the street or that it is acceptable to beat a puppy. No one is harmed, no one knows the difference.

[Kevy Baby]

Would it be inappropriate to wear a chastity ring in a piercing in the nether regions of one's body?

[tracilicious]

Would it be inappropriate to wear a chastity ring in a piercing in the nether regions of one's body?

I think this would be most appropriate. See this ring? It's off limits!

[innerSpaceman]

Which is what I think the main purpose of a wedding ring is anyway. I don't think it's a symbol so much to the wedded couple, but a signal to everyone else ... a marking of territory, if you will .. that this person or that is unavailable - - - so keep your mitts off.

[Strangler Lewis]

It can be both. We know what wedding rings and engagement rings look like and the finger they are generally worn on, so, yes, they are public symbols.

We also recognize other styles of rings, jewelry, etc. that are not related to marriage. Chastity rings probably fall within this category, at least to my untrained eye. The commitment they embody to the wearer would be entirely personal and private, much like the cilice worn by the albino in The DaVinci Code.

[Alex]

Yes, it certainly can be both. I used to wear a ring that had a very specific symbolic meaning to me, it was publicly displayed but I was the only person in the world who knew of its significance.

I know my sense of the dividing line between public and private is overdeveloped but private symbols worn externally aren't private unless there is a similarly small circle of people who know what it means.

Even if it is unrecognized by 99% of the people, I don't know why you'd openly profess your BDSM predilection on a car bumper sticker (and once you know the sticker you see quite a few of them out there) nor why you'd openly profess that you've vowed to wait until you get married to have sex.

To me, it is not that these things are shameful, just that they are private.
It seems to me that part of our societal change over the last 40 years has been the idea that the only reason to keep something private is shame and therefore to not be ashamed requires making it public.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I think everyone should be required to have a sex date stamp.

"Getting some since 1976"

[3894]

New LoT swag possibility?

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I think everyone should be required to have a sex date stamp.

"Getting some since 1976"

I think a McDonald's type sign would be more informative, "Over 5 million served".

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Even if it is unrecognized by 99% of the people, I don't know why you'd openly profess your BDSM predilection on a car bumper sticker...

Hmm. I'm google-stumped.

[Alex]

Hmm. I'm google-stumped.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Leather%2C_Latex%2C_and_BDSM_pride.svg/300px-Leather%2C_Latex%2C_and_BDSM_pride.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_Pride_flag)

Click on the picture for Wikipedia (work safe) details.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I think a McDonald's type sign would be more informative, "Over 5 million served".

Thats more like a warning label... Then there are the side-effects...

[mousepod]

Alex,

I thought you were talking about the Triskelion...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/BDSMrightsFlag166x100.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM_Rights_Flag)

It always seems so oddly "above ground" when a giant "Leather Flag" flies from the flagpole on the corner of Castro and Market....

[Alex]

I could have, but that is much less widely adopted and figured I'd present the image that most people are likely to have seen but not recognized for what it was.

(And I just stumbled upon the corporate filter by unintentionally clicking a link that goes to bdsmrights.com so I'm not going to search any more for a triskelion photo.)