If a conservative had said it- they would demand his head

[Nephythys]

Apology Demanded

Two prominent African-American Republicans have demanded an apology from the new DNC Chairman Howard Dean for saying at a Democratic Black Caucus meeting last week, "You think the Republicans could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here."

And in a joint statement, Maryland Lieutenant Governor Michael Steele and former Oklahoma Congressman J.C. Watts say they are outraged over the insensitive and intolerable remarks. Adding, "This kind of backward thinking remind us of a horrible time in history, when blacks were seen as servants." But the chair of the caucus says Dean's remarks were well received, insisting they were, "A statement of fact" and Steele and Watts are blowing things out of proportion.


Uh huh- :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[sleepyjeff]

Few remember that the KKK was a Democratic Party organization with the express purpose of doing whatever they could to make sure Blacks did not vote Republican....just like the Rainbow Coalition :eek:

[scaeagles]

Hey Sleepy - maybe we should interview Senator Byrd and see what his recollections of the KKK are.

[Scrooge McSam]

Yeah Ask Guckert if you can borrow his press pass. I hear he doesn't need it any more.

[Darkbeer]

But the chair of the caucus says Dean's remarks were well received, insisting they were, "A statement of fact"



This really bugs me, President Bush has the a more diverse set of top advisers than any president in history.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-12-09-diverse-usat_x.htm



"Bush did not go out and say, 'I'm going to create an administration that looks like America,' which is how Clinton led off," says Paul Light, a political scientist at New York University who has studied presidential appointments. "He has just gone about recruiting a diverse Cabinet as an ordinary act. That's remarkable in the sense it sends to future administrations: 'This is just the way we're going to do business.' "

Even some Democrats grumbled during the presidential campaign that Bush had more African-Americans and Hispanics among his closest advisers than did Democratic challenger John Kerry, who won a majority of black and Hispanic votes.

"On the Democratic side, we see that and we say, 'Hmmm,' " says Donna Brazile, who was Al Gore's campaign manager in 2000 and is African-American. She credits Bush with instinctively believing that surrounding himself with able women and people of color helps him make better decisions — a lesson she says some Democratic officeholders and candidates have yet to absorb.



You know, not a bad idea, forget the person's race, gender, etc... and just hire the best person for the job. :cool:

[sleepyjeff]

This really bugs me, President Bush has the a more diverse set of top advisers than any president in history.


... forget the person's race, gender, etc... and just hire the best person for the job. :cool:

Hear, Hear!!!

[Nephythys]

Or going back to Dean- this guy, who hired no minorities in his administration while Gov. of Vermont, and his excuse? There are no black people in Vermont.

[Scrooge McSam]

Never been to Vermont, have you?

BlogsforBush dot com (Check your favorites. I'm sure it's there) tells us that there are 3,000 black people in the entire state of Vermont, 52 in Montpelier, the capital city.

[alphabassettgrrl]

The Democrats used to be the conservative party, and the Republicans the progressives. They have since flipped, and now it's the Democrats voting for changes, and the Republicans who like things as they are.

Unless my memory is faulty. It's been a while since my last history class.

[Gemini Cricket]

You know, I just decided something for myself.
I'm going to try not to feed into the media's whole blue versus red thing. Both sides represent one country. My country, our country. Instead of trying to take each other down, they should be working together to make us all stronger. The way these two ineffectual parties work can be likened to playground shenanigans. Phooey on both sides and phooey on the media.
:cheers:

[scaeagles]

This story reminds me of an event that happened when Ruth Ginsberg was going through confirmation hearings.

Sen. Hatch asked her if someone who had a staff of 50 with not one of those positions being held by a minority could be sued for racial discrimination. When she said that yes, she believed that there were grounds for a racial discrimination suit, he pointed out to her that she had a staff of 50 at her law practice and not one was a minority. He then let her off the hook by telling her he didn't think she was a racist.

[sleepyjeff]

The Democrats used to be the conservative party, and the Republicans the progressives. They have since flipped, and now it's the Democrats voting for changes, and the Republicans who like things as they are.

Unless my memory is faulty. It's been a while since my last history class.

Your memory is fine. They didn't actually "flip", but evolved away from what they were at one time. In essence you are correct.

[Nephythys]

Never been to Vermont, have you?

BlogsforBush dot com (Check your favorites. I'm sure it's there) tells us that there are 3,000 black people in the entire state of Vermont, 52 in Montpelier, the capital city.


I have no favorites that have anything to do with Bush actually-

So much for none in Vermont- ;) thanks for proving the point LOL

Your memory is fine. They didn't actually "flip", but evolved away from what they were at one time. In essence you are correct.


but we want change too- away from the way the libs want to take us ;)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

but we want change too- away from the way the libs want to take us ;)

Away from peace, away from prosperity, away from surpluses, away from...

;)

[Nephythys]

Away from peace, away from prosperity, away from surpluses, away from...

;)

away from socialisim, away from abortion on demand, away from higher taxes, away from a weak military, away from the need to kiss Europes ass for approval...heehee


LOL- love you anyway.... ;)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

away from higher taxes,


Interesting that you mention taxes. I just heard an interesting discussion on the radio about that very subject.

In his State of the Union address, Bush assured that he would not raise payroll taxes. Now, a mere few weeks later, he has said that he is open to removing the cap on social security, or in other words, a raise in payroll tax. When asked by a reporter about these two conflicting statements, Bush did what he does best and changed the subject.

But the best part was that it was a conservative talk show host who normally has nothing but praise for King George. Nice to see when Bush pisses off his supporters.

[scaeagles]

Speaking of which, in his State of the Union address, Bush assured that he would not raise payroll taxes. Now, a mere few weeks later, he has said that he is open to removing the cap on social security, or in other words, a raise in payroll tax.

Actually, he said he hadn't ruled it out. All he's doing is leaving options on the table, and I believe politically he is attempting to back dems into a corner by having them suggest it during formal negotiations regarding social security reform. He will not raise the taxes. If he does, feel free to quote me on it.

[Scrooge McSam]

No no no no no

Geez It's not an increase in taxes. It's a rollback on exemptions.

(Did I do that right, all my friends over there on the right?)

[Scrooge McSam]

he is attempting to back dems into a corner by having them suggest it during formal negotiations.

Bingo! Give that man a stuffed elephant!

I doubt very much though it's actually George doing the thinking here.

[Not Afraid]

away from socialisim, away from abortion on demand, away from higher taxes, away from a weak military, away from the need to kiss Europes ass for approval...heehee

Good to know I'm not a lib, I guess. ;)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Bingo! Give that man a stuffed elephant!



He prefers appliances. ;)

BTW, concerning the OP (which I didn't address earlier), I think it was a stupid thing to say.

[scaeagles]

No no no no no

Geez It's not an increase in taxes. It's a rollback on exemptions.

(Did I do that right, all my friends over there on the right?)

Actually, my dear Scrooge, if he signs a bill which included raising the ceiling I'll be screaming more loudly than anyone. It's not about party for me.....it's about certain things I believe in - and do not believe in. I do not believe in raising taxes, but in lowering them.

[scaeagles]

He prefers appliances. ;)

BTW, concerning the OP (which I didn't address earlier), I think it was a stupid thing to say.

Most certainly prefer appliances, yes. :)

Yeah, you liberal derailer - we're talking about the head of the DNC being a racist, not social security. :p

[Not Afraid]

Yeah, you liberal derailer - we're talking about the head of the DNC being a racist, not social security. :p

I just thought he was being wry and funny!

[scaeagles]

I just thought he was being wry and funny!

Actually, I agree with you 100%. The difference is that should a Republican have said it, which is the subject of the OP, the dems would be calling for his head because of the implication in what he said.

I am fully willing to say that I do not believe Dean to be a racist. However, there are such double standards in the area it amazes me. For example, Trent Lott can praise Strom Thurmond at a party in Thrumond's honor and be categorized as a racist who wants segregation, but Chris Dodd can praise Robert Byrd, a former leader in the KKK, and receive no such condemnation.

I am certain that if a republican said it, it would be a huge media story splashed all over the front pages of newspapers everywhere and be the lead story on the nightly news of the big three, and the thrust of the stories would be to have the individual resign his post and to reign condemnation on the republican party for promoting to leadership someone who thinks this way.

[Scrooge McSam]

I think it was a stupid thing to say.

Totally! In these times, I guess you do have to express EXACTLY how you feel about this kind of stuff, lest you get lumped into some pidgeonhole you don't fit.

Truth is I "could" have said the same thing just based on the few years I spent working hotels, restaurants and a cruise ship. Most of the staff was black or hispanic. That's just the way it was. But that was 20 some years ago and things may have changed. I don't know. But I don't think I WOULD have said it.

And I'm not a politician; someone who has to speak to all peoples' concerns all the time. I'd expect a politician to exhibit a little more polish.

So, yeah, I'm disappointed he said it. I had to stop and shake my head. Do I think it approaches what Lott said a few months back? No, not for me. But, that has more to do with my opinion of Thurmond.

[Ghoulish Delight]

But when in God's name would a Republican have an opportunity to make a statement like that?

[Not Afraid]

Actually, I agree with you 100%. The difference is that should a Republican have said it, which is the subject of the OP, the dems would be calling for his head because of the implication in what he said.



A Republican wouldn't have said it. You can't compare apples and oranges of these two parties. Certain parties have certain "reputations" that make for great fodder for jokes. What would be funny said about a republican would fall flat being said about a Dem and vice-versa,

[scaeagles]

But when in God's name would a Republican have an opportunity to make a statement like that?

Perhaps when talking about minorities in high level positions, like being in the cabinet or a top advisor. How about this - Bill Frist, immediately prior to the Senate vote on Condy Rice, says he's glad to see a minority nominated to the position by Bush because Bill Clinton only had minorities in the White House to serve hors d'oeuvres (sp?) at parties.

[scaeagles]

A Republican wouldn't have said it. You can't compare apples and oranges of these two parties. Certain parties have certain "reputations" that make for great fodder for jokes. What would be funny said about a republican would fall flat being said about a Dem and vice-versa,

You see, that's the problem. When Dean says it, it's a joke because he's a dem. If a rep says something similar, it's not a joke because, well, he's a rep.

And the funny thing is I can't see any minority in the dem party ever promoted up the chain of command or appointed to a prominent cabinet position.

Either it is racially insensitive or it is not. I do not think it is, like I said. But if a republican had said it, you can bet it would be portrayed as such.

[Nephythys]

Good to know I'm not a lib, I guess. ;)


**Smooch**
;)

[Not Afraid]

But, it's a joke of perceptions. That's why it's so funny. Actual reality may hove nothing to do with it.

[SacTown Chronic]

Yeah Ask Guckert if you can borrow his press pass. I hear he doesn't need it any more.

They're just being sloppy now...could be arrogance, I confuse the two.


Gleeful anticipation indeed.

[scaeagles]

But, it's a joke of perceptions. That's why it's so funny. Actual reality may hove nothing to do with it.

Exactly. To repeat, I am certain he was joking.

The problem is that these perceptions lead to political lynchings of some - a la Trent Lott - and free passes for others - a la Chris Dodd. This is not right.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm sorry if you don't see a difference between, "There are a lot of minorities in the service inudstry," and, "We'd be better off as a country with a segregationist as our leader."

[Jazzman]

That's just the thing.

A Democrat makes that comment and it's just a harmless observation that, “Hey, a lot of minorities seem to work in hotels.” No big deal....

Take the comment and verbatim copy and paste it into any speech given by any Republican at any time, and controversy swirls. "See! Republicans are racist! They think that minorities are too stupid to get real jobs!" is cried from the mountain tops.

It's an argument in hypotheticals, of course, because obviously the same exact words are never going to be uttered by members of both parties, so there are no control or test subjects. But looking at past incidents, it's pretty safe to say that a Republican would be strung up, burnt at the stake and thrown over a cliff for saying that comment.

[Nephythys]

exactly-

[scaeagles]

I'm sorry if you don't see a difference between, "There are a lot of minorities in the service inudstry," and, "We'd be better off as a country with a segregationist as our leader."

And I didn't make a direct comparison between Dean and Lott. I made a direct comparison between Lott praising a segregationist and getting destroyed in the media and being demoted, and Chris Dodd praising Robert Byrd, a former leader of the KKK, and nothing coming of it.

We're talking about the double standard. If a republican had said something similar to what Dean said - like my Bill Frist hypothetical before - he'd be a political pariah.

[SacTown Chronic]

There would be no bigger fuss if a republican had made these comments. Remember, Dean's words were said to a black audience and they were well received. This is a non-issue.

Now if Dean had made these type comments in a prepared speech to a more diverse audience, that would be something else entirely.

[Nephythys]

really? It's a non issue? That's a load of crap- there was protest from black people, but they're conservative, so are NON-persons to these people.

So, if you say something that sounds racist to some people but you say it to the ethnic group you are talking about, it's ok?

:rolleyes:

[SacTown Chronic]

So, if you say something that sounds racist to some people but you say it to the ethnic group you are talking about, it's ok?

Well, it wouldn't be okay if the group you said it to had a problem with your words.


I've cracked a million stereotypical jokes when hanging out with black friends. Comments I would never make in a million years to a non-black crowd. Now, I'm not a politician so things are different for me. I will concede that Dean should not have made these comments. But, yeah, it's a non-issue.

[Nephythys]

The Dean comment may be a non-issue, the fact that it would have been blown up into a major issue had a conservative republican said it, is not. There is a clear double standard, and it's insulting and wrong.

[SacTown Chronic]

The Dean comment may be a non-issue, the fact that it would have been blown up into a major issue had a conservative republican said it, is not.

You know this for a fact, do you?

[Nephythys]

You know this for a fact, do you?


yep- given historical behavior and events it is blatantly clear there are different standards and acceptable behaviors for liberals/dems vs conservatives/repubs.


Yes.

[Darkbeer]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050217/NEWS01/502170368/1002/NEWS

[SacTown Chronic]

During Bush's Privatize Social Security World Tour 2005 he told a black crowd that Social Security was inherently unfair to black men because their expected life span was shorter than that of white men.

Now this was intentionally misleading because Bush knows just as well as I do that the shorter life expectancy data of black men is skewed by the disproportionately high murder rate of black males under 30. Bush also knows that there is nothing he could do to Social Security that would allow black men under 30 to start receiving benefits.

This gibberish, this playing the race card when there is no issue (With regards to retirement. The high murder rate of black men is most certainly an issue.) is offensive to me. I find intentional deceit to be worse than an ill-advised joke. But I don't have the morals and values of our friends on the extreme right (Actually I do. I just refuse to play the whole "do whatever I want to my fellow man and repent to my lord and I'll be okay" game) so what do I know?

[Nephythys]

yeah- when Bush says something- it is offensive and inherently misleading and deceitful- when a dem does it.....it is not offensive, it's a statement of fact, either true or an honest mistake.

After all- the statements made by dems are never deceitful or just outright lies.

The failure to be able to admit the double standard is infuriating, but hardly surprising.

[SacTown Chronic]

The double standard does still exist. But I just don't think these comments, out of a republicans mouth to a receptive black crowd, would have created a firestorm. Sure, there would be a few partisan shots lobbed at the other side (like what happened here) but I think the stir would have been minor.

[Nephythys]

and I think, strongly suspect, no, I know, some partisan dem would have demanded their head.

[SacTown Chronic]

and I think, strongly suspect, no, I know, some partisan dem would have demanded their head.
Agreed (that's what happened to Dean, isn't it). But I say reaction from the public would be a collective yawn.

[Nephythys]

they want an apology and retraction, not his head.

[Disneyphile]

they want an apology and retraction, not his head.Well, only if they painted the blue states red, THEN we'd want his head.

Oh, they're painting the blue states red,
Painting the blue states red........

(I'm betting conservatives actually dream of this, dontcha? :p)

[sleepyjeff]

Well, only if they painted the blue states red, THEN we'd want his head.

Oh, they're painting the blue states red,
Painting the blue states red........

(I'm betting conservatives actually dream of this, dontcha? :p)

Oregon, California, Washington, Pennsylvania, and Michigan will go red in 08(along with all of the ones that got painted red in 04)---- :D

[Disneyphile]

Oregon, California, Washington, Pennsylvania, and Michigan will go red in 08(along with all of the ones that got painted red in 04)---- :DNo wonder there's a shortage of red paint at Wal-Marts across the nation. You all are stocking up! :p ;)

[scaeagles]

Pardon me - I shop for paint at the Home Depot.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Oregon, California, Washington, Pennsylvania, and Michigan will go red in 08(along with all of the ones that got painted red in 04)---- :D

Are wagers allowed on this board? ;)

[Not Afraid]

I'm just going to be Purple!

[sleepyjeff]

Are wagers allowed on this board? ;)

.............. :cheers:

[sleepyjeff]

I'm just going to be Purple!

Like Florida in 00'.......... :D