New TV config decissions

[Ghoulish Delight]

Our new 40" LCD tv arrived today, which means all I can think about sitting here at work is setting it up. I need some advice.

First off, we have no HD components right now. I refuse to commit to either BlueRay or HD-DVD, the Wii doesn't do HD, and we'd have to buy a pricey new TiVo. Reviews of the TV we bought said it does an excellent job of displaying an SD signal, so I'm crossing my fingers.

I'd like to make sure we get the best quality SD video on it. Right now our set up is as as follows:

Cable connected through TiVo via coax to the RF input of our TV
DVD player connected w/S-video
Wii connected with standard composite RCA video

I'm thinking I'll probably want to get away from the coax RF from the TiVo to the TV.

The new TV has several options. If I'm reading the manual correctly (won't be positive until I get home), it's got 2 composite inputs, 2 s-video inputs, and 2 component inputs. I'm thinking I'll stick with S-video for the DVD. I believe the player has component video out as well. Would I gain much going component instead? And can I get away with standard RCA cables if I do?

As for the TiVo, the docs online seem to indicate that it's only got either RF or composite, no s-video or component. That's unfortunate. If that really is the case I'll go with the composite, it should be a better signal than the RF.

Of course, the other consideration is an HD antenna. The TV's got a built in tuner. I've seen some reviews online for indoor antennas that make it seem like a viable possibility. And I could very easily locate the antenna upstairs for improved reception, possibly even in the attic if I get really ambitious. I'll just have to make sure that if we do buy an antenna, that there's a good return policy in case it sucks. Anyone one have any experience/recommendations?

[mousepod]

If I were you, I'd go to radio shack and grab an off-the-air HD antenna for <$50. If you're in the right place, you'll be able to get most of the off-air network HD programming.

Or......

If your TV is cable-card ready, you could get a card from your cable TV provider for minimal extra cost - you can't record the shows, but at least you can watch them "live" in HD.

(Note: once we went HD, we dumped the TiVo and went with Comcast's HD-DVR box, which, compared to TiVo, sucks. However, it does allow time-shifting of all programming.)

I'm also not about to choose between HD-DVD and BluRay either, so we bought an Oppo player, which upscales SD DVDs to HD. The reason that the Oppo is the best SD DVD player, IMO, is because it will also convert from PAL->NTSC, and play DiVX files. Since your TV is on the smaller side, you could get the DV-970HD.

And as far as component cables go, you might get away with using analog audio RCA cables for component video, but since component video needs 75 ohm and analog audio cables can vary from 50-110 ohm, your mileage may vary.

[Not Afraid]

This cartoon comes to mind:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/larson_what_dogs_hear.jpg

[DreadPirateRoberts]

If I were you, I'd go to radio shack and grab an off-the-air HD antenna for <$50. If you're in the right place, you'll be able to get most of the off-air network HD programming.


I don't do HD yet, but isn't an HD antenna just a UHF antenna?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't do HD yet, but isn't an HD antenna just a UHF antenna?
More or less. It's gotta be a digital UHF antenna, and there are 2 different digital signals (SD and HD). It's not quite like the color/b&w standard where there's one signal with the b&w info biggybacked on the color. But yes, for the most part any digital UHF antenna can receive both SD and HD digital signals.

There's no way we're giving up the TiVo for Time Warner's piece of crap. It's more expensive and orders of magnitude worse functionally. Plus we've paid for 3 years of TiVo service up front so we're (willingly and happily) locked in. We'll most likely live with standard digital cable through this TiVo until such a time as we feel like paying for an upgraded HD TiVo + HD programming, which at this point is not within our affordability.

[Snowflake]

This cartoon comes to mind:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/larson_what_dogs_hear.jpg

Get out of my head NA! ;)

[Kevy Baby]

There's no way we're giving up the TiVo for Time Warner's piece of crap. It's more expensive and orders of magnitude worse functionally.TW's DVR is not more expensive for service or equipment - not by a longshot.

However, I cannot argue with its absolutely sucky functionality. I got it so that I could have an HD DVR. But it only has 20 hours worth of HD capability. And, yeah, it sucks. But we kept our Series Two TiVo (240 Hours capacity, Lifetime Service) and have a separate feed (SD) going into it. But once you have HD, it is hard to go back to SD.

The DirecTV (which probably isn't as good as TiVo either) has 50 hours capacity on HD. The HD TiVo only has 32 Hours of HD recording capacity (I really don't care that it is THX certified - nothing broadcast is, so why do I care if the DVR is?!?), and it costs an arm and a leg ($800 straight from TiVo, I have seen as low as $650, but I have heard lower).

But the way I looked at it, I HAD to have an HD DVR - it was simply an issue of taking the least painful route. I would have preferred to have had the DirecTV option, but there were other mitigating issues (there was a long and painful thread on the subject).

[Ghoulish Delight]

TW's DVR is not more expensive for service or equipment - not by a longshot.Yes, it was. I did the math and that's why we ended up with the TiVo. It was helped by the discount we got by getting 3 years of service upfront, but it ended up costing us ~$5/month less to go with TiVo and get rid of the Time Warner box. No brainer.

So, any advice on s-video vs. component? Is there a significant enough difference to justify 2 extra cables? Is there any reason a standard RCA cable wouldn't be good enough to carry component signals?

[mousepod]

So, any advice on s-video vs. component? Is there a significant enough difference to justify 2 extra cables? Is there any reason a standard RCA cable wouldn't be good enough to carry component signals?

For SD - go with S-video.

For HD - go with HDMI (but not from Best Buy) or DVI (which is basically HDMI without audio).

If you want to go the component route, see my first reply.

[Alex]

It'll be crap unless you buy $70/foot cables at Magnolia Hi-Fi. So make sure you do that.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If you want to go the component route, see my first reply.

Oops, missed that in your first post. I've since done some research on my own. I can get decent component cables for ~$20 which isn't bad, but with no component option for the TiVo and already having s-video for the DVD, I don't see much justification for it. Unless I find out that the TiVo does have s-video out, it looks like I can get away with the same cabling that's in place now. Which is good because I didn't relish the prospect of bunny-proofing a bunch of new cables.

[Kevy Baby]

Yes, it was. I did the math and that's why we ended up with the TiVo. It was helped by the discount we got by getting 3 years of service upfront, but it ended up costing us ~$5/month less to go with TiVo and get rid of the Time Warner box. No brainer.I took it from a different route. When we were getting the HD service, the DVR was only $5 per month additional. TW still sucks, but for us, it was the only real option.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I took it from a different route. When we were getting the HD service, the DVR was only $5 per month additional. TW still sucks, but for us, it was the only real option.Oh, we also got rid of one of our cable boxes. We weren't watching any of the digital channel anyway so it was pointless. We still have one cable box because they won't let us just pay for digital service and not rent a box, but it's sitting in a closet. I suppose it's good to have around in case they move a channel we actually watch onto digital at any point. But we were paying $25/month for one DVR and one non-dvr box. By getting rid of the TW DVR ($15/month) and getting TiVo (box+3 years of service worked out to $10/month), we saved $5/month.

[Kevy Baby]

FWIW, I do have to say that setting up the TW service was quite painless for us. We live in a condo. there is only a single coax line leading from the satellite/cable closet outside out building to inside of our unit. For DirecTV, they needed three coax lines. Running additional lines into our unit was the big problem.

TW was able to use the single lead to feed the HD DVR, a second box back in the bedroom and a third (no box) lead into the TiVo. I may move the box to feed the TiVo because there are a few channels I would like to be able to TiVo that I cannot get without the box.

But none of this is important to you - sorry for the hijack.

[mousepod]

Did I mention that if you have a cable-card slot on your TV you don't need a box? And that you can enjoy digital TV? Digital HD TV?

[Ghoulish Delight]

No cable card slot. That'll have to wait until we decide to upgrade to the series 3 TiVo.

[Kevy Baby]

Did I mention that if you have a cable-card slot on your TV you don't need a box? And that you can enjoy digital TV? Digital HD TV?But no DVR.

[Ghoulish Delight]

But no DVR.
Yeah, but at somewhere around $2/month, it wouldn't have been a bad option to be able to flip things on in HD.

[Tramspotter]

Get real 75ohm nice shielded cables X3 (all the same length) Something like Belden 1504 or pre-molded if you must and go component everywhere possible ie. DVD player. Hack your Tivo to get at it's component output (if available on-board) and or build a HDTV MythTV. Then sit back and wait out whats next Problem solved.

[mousepod]

Good call, Tramspotter. I completely forgot about MythTV. You could build a nice Linux box for HD MythTV for a lot cheaper than TiVo. I'll probably do that when we move...

[Kevy Baby]

I just spoke with GD a little while ago. He is knee deep in TV config land

[CoasterMatt]

The difference on SOME tvs can be quite drastic between s-video and component.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh the difference actually having the equipment in hand makes.

Okay, translating from documentation world to real world here's where things stand. The TiVo DOES have s-video. Bonus. While the tv documentation lists "2 composite AND 2 s-video" inputs, in realty, that's a total of 2 inputs, not 4 (each one can be either of the 2 formats).

So: TiVo is now s-video. Wii takes one of the composite slots. The DVD player will take one of the 2 (separate from the composite/s-video) component slots once I get cables (doing some reading, it just makes sense to spend $20 and get component-specific cables). Had the TiVo had component outputs I'd have used them, but it doesn't.

Antenna will likely be forthcoming. There's a Dodger game on channel 9 in HD on Friday...

Okay, logistics out of the way, cables are connected, the verdict is...

:D :D :D :D :D

I'm watching the Dodgers right now, in SD, through the TiVo. And it's beautiful. Just beautiful. I also spent an hour playing Tiger Woods Tour '07 on the Wii (in widescreen mode). Droooooool.

So

freaking

happy


ETA: You better believe Munchkin's lovin' the 40" cardboard boxes!

[Not Afraid]

You missed dinner. ;)

[FEJ]

I also spent an hour playing Tiger Woods Tour '07 on the Wii (in widescreen mode). Droooooool.



I want to come play TW07. I can bring Wario World to be goofballs with.
:)

[Ghoulish Delight]

We've got Wario also. That game is crazy fun.

[FEJ]

I can't wait for Harry Potter!

Also Mario Party 8!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Have you seen Super Paper Mario?

[Ghoulish Delight]

TV update. Picked up some component cables yesterday for the DVD player. The picture looks fantastic, but there's a problem.

The screen is 16:9. There are 4 options for the mode of display. 16:9, 4:3, "zoom1" and "zoom2". We popped in our Lord of the Rings DVD which is 1.33:1. In the standard 16:9 screen mode, the TV stretches the image. Flipped to "zoome1". That did the trick. The image wasn't stretched, nothing was cut off. It still leaves a bit of letterboxing obviously the ratio isn't exact, but that's fine.

All is good right? Well, we then put Marry Poppins in. Marry Poppins is 1.66:1. Once again, 16:9 stretches it. Switched over to Zoom1...it cuts off the top and bottom of the image :(

Lost was coming on, so I didn't have a whole lot of time to figure things out, but I couldn't find any way to resolve this. Are we doomed to avoid any DVD with a 1.66:1 ratio? Might there be a setting on the DVD player or perhaps some option on the TV I'm missing?

[mousepod]

It depends which DVD player you have. On my Oppo, for example, I have a setting called "Wide/SQZ". Since the Oppo always outputs 16:9, it will output a 16:9 image in 16:9, and will add bars to the sides of 4:3 source material, therefore always preserving the aspect ratio of the original disc.

You also might check the settings on your TV - on my Toshiba, for example, "zoom 1" stretches the picture more horizontally than vertically, so while the screen is more "filled", the AR is screwed, while "zoom 2" stretches both horizontal and vertical to the same degree, resulting in a more severe crop on the top and bottom, but still keeping the picture from appearing stretched. This works especially when an SD channel presents a widescreen movie in letterbox. The resulting zoom just gets rid of the black bars on the top and bottom.

By the way, the first edition of the Mary Poppins DVD is not anamorphic, while the current 2-Disc special edition is.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'll have to check the player docs when I get home to see what it's doing and what I can change. I'm guessing it outputs at 4:3, which would be why 16:9 is stretching it. Both zoom1 and zoom2 on the TV seem to be simply scaled up 4:3, with zoom2 just being a closer zoom. With the 1.33:1 it works great since the smaller aspect still doesn't fill the screen at zoom1. But with the 1.66:1, it zooms in too much, cutting off a good inch from top and bottom.

Hopefully I'll be able to find some config options on the player. If not, I guess we'll be watching Marry Poppins on 4:3 (ugh) and joining :ism: and become aspect-ratio-snobs.





Or buy a new DVD player....

[FEJ]

Have you seen Super Paper Mario?

Not yet. Ralph Wiggum has it but I need to borrow it.