Jimmy Carter Calls on Congress to Repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[SzczerbiakManiac]

In a statement issued to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (http://www.sldn.org/), former US President Jimmy Carter said:Originally posted by Jimmy Carter (http://www.sldn.org/templates/press/record.html?record=3936&section=2)
It is my long-held belief that every human being deserves dignity and respect. I often heard that phrase during my years at the United States Naval Academy, I carried it out as Commander-in-Chief, and it continues to animate my human rights work around the globe today. The nation's commitment to human rights requires that lawmakers revisit "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the current policy that prevents lesbians, gays and bisexuals from serving openly in our armed forces.Click here (http://www.sldn.org/binary-data/SLDN_ARTICLES/pdf_file/3936.pdf) to view his full statement as a PDF.

[innerSpaceman]

And it was the Navy which recently reinstated the service of an openly gay member, and when Stars & Stripes reported on that newsworthy occurrence - - he was promptly discharged again.


If I recall correctly, he was performing some sort of vital Arabic translating in the Middle East - where there is a shortage of competent translators - and was re-discharged because he is gay. Please let our commander in chief let the nation know that we are jeopardizing national security so that our servicemen and women won't get coodiefied by Teh Gay.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Jimmy has long been given a bad rap but I think it's entirely undeserved. I liked him as president, I like him as the negotiator and ambassador he is, and this last statement pleases me greatly.

DADT has long been a mistake. The ban on gay servicepeople is and has been a mistake, especially in this time of personnel shortages and the lack of translators.

Repeal it.

[Alex]

Where was he 15 years ago when taking such a stand would have been more noteworthy and courageous?

(That's not rhetorical; I have no idea. Maybe he's been campaigning against Don't Ask, Don't Tell the whole time.)

[Tref]

From what I read, Jimmy Carter tried to call on Congress, but they had changed their phone number and didn't tell him.

[scaeagles]

Jimmy has long been given a bad rap but I think it's entirely undeserved. I liked him as president, I like him as the negotiator and ambassador he is, and this last statement pleases me greatly.

While somewhat off topic, I can only think of disastrous actions and embarrassing policy decisions that damaged this country.

[innerSpaceman]

And how would you compare, oh pick one of those alleged Carter disasters, with the policy of Don't Ask Don't Tell which results in the dismissal of highly qualified service personnel in a time of maximum military deployment?

[JWBear]

Jimmy has long been given a bad rap but I think it's entirely undeserved. I liked him as president, I like him as the negotiator and ambassador he is, and this last statement pleases me greatly.

DADT has long been a mistake. The ban on gay servicepeople is and has been a mistake, especially in this time of personnel shortages and the lack of translators.

Repeal it.


While somewhat off topic, I can only think of disastrous actions and embarrassing policy decisions that damaged this country.

You know this country is seriously f*cked-up when we start waxing nostalgic for the Carter administration…

[innerSpaceman]

I'll take that from you, JW ... but, if I'm not mistaken, scaeagles was barely a teen during the Carter administration. Historical revisionism hindsight being so much greater than 20/20.

[Alex]

I don't think Carter was a bad president, just an ineffective one. (No, I didn't really experience first hand but did one pay $1,000 for the privilege of studying it.)

In terms of natural resources regulation he was generally full of very good ideas and just didn't have the political acument or power to follow through on them and then worsening political and economic crises forced him to throw those ideas under the bus for short term wins that were more politically necessary.

But for a very short window in 1977 and 1978 there was actually a chance that the president was going to stand up to the BLM and Army Corps of Engineers and rationalize our very broken water resource management and land use regulations. But the window closed and hasn't come close to reopening.

[scaeagles]

And how would you compare, oh pick one of those alleged Carter disasters, with the policy of Don't Ask Don't Tell which results in the dismissal of highly qualified service personnel in a time of maximum military deployment?


Honestly, I see it as relatively minor. I fully admit to not having done any research or having any sort of data, but when someone is dismissed for violating the policy, we seem to hear about it in the media. I don't recall hearing of that many. But truthfully, I've never liked the policy established by....well, you know....and have never voiced support for it.

Anyway...historical revisionism? Do I really need to list his blunders and outright idiocy while in office? Even now his continued diplomatic efforts where they are not sanctioned by the US government are an embarrassment, as well as his recent book full of lies regarding the Palestinian and Isreali conflicts.

No historical revisionism necessary.

[Tramspotter]

Jimmy has long been given a bad rap but I think it's entirely undeserved. I liked him as president, I like him as the negotiator and ambassador he is, and this last statement pleases me greatly.

Is he in your top 3? :rolleyes:

http://homepage.mac.com/wittywolf/mylinks/carter.hitler.jpg

[€uroMeinke]

Is that John Lennon?

[Tramspotter]

kein heir Chris, (quit looking in the background) aber Blickende bei, welcher Firma er ist.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

A bookstore? Color me confused once again...

[Scrooge McSam]

I think we're supposed to conclude that a picture in close proximity to another picture in a store window denotes some kind of connection.

[Strangler Lewis]

I think we're supposed to conclude that a Jewish group is not surprised to see an Arab bookstore grouping a Jimmy Carter book with Mein Kampf. I am not surprised that such a group is thus not surprised.

[wendybeth]

I think Tram has just committed a pictorial Godwinism.

[sleepyjeff]

Ich bin krank und mude. Tut mir leid aber mein Deautsch ist sehr shleck.

[Alex]

Without knowing what the book in the middle is I can't make a fair judgement of the booksellers intent in that particular display.

Because I'm pretty sure I can buy both Mein Kampf and Carter's book at my local Barnes & Noble.

[Strangler Lewis]

Sure you can. Even if you can't, you can make a fair judgment of the David Project's intent.

http://www.davidproject.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=224&Itemid=1

[Kevy Baby]

Ich bin krank und mude. Tut mir leid aber mein Deautsch ist sehr shleck.According to both Babelfish and other site:
I am sick and mude. I am is sorry however my Deautsch very shleck.

[Not Afraid]

Let lisafish translate.

I am sick and tired. I'm sorry but my German is very bad.

[lashbear]

According to both Babelfish and other site: I am sick & mude

well, I'm sick & nude.

[sleepyjeff]

Let lisafish translate.

I am sick and tired. I'm sorry but my German is very bad.

Lisa got it spot on.

[SacTown Chronic]

I think we're supposed to conclude that both Jimmy Carter and Adolf Hitler committed adultery and/or genocide in their hearts many times.

[Not Afraid]

Lisa got it spot on.

I'm amazed at how much German I can still understand. I just can't spell Auf Deutche.

[sleepyjeff]

I'm amazed at how much German I can still understand. I just can't spell Auf Deutche.

22 years out of High School and I still can speak and write it a little but when confronted with someone who is from Germany my attempts at understanding what they are saying always ends the same.....Wie bitte:rolleyes:

[Alex]

Can lisafish handle this one:

Я больн и утомлен. Я огорченн но мой немец очень плох.

[sleepyjeff]

I can't even find those symbols on my keyboard!

[Alex]

Very roughly transliterated:

Ya boln y ootomlen. Ya ogorchen no moy nyemetz ochen ploch.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Can lisafish handle this one:

Я больн и утомлен. Я огорченн но мой немец очень плох.

I recognize the Cyrillic characters but I don't speak Russian.

[Not Afraid]

Ich spreche nur ein bisschen Deutsch, un peu minuscule de Français, apenas Español and absolutely no Russian.

[Kevy Baby]

Free online translators (Babelfish, et. al.) always amuse me. I took NA's signature, translated to French, to German, to English and the results were:

The dogs entrindeten the apes, which strike the bears, danced the women, who keep loose

[JWBear]

Mae i siarad yn Nghymraeg, yn fach.

[€uroMeinke]

I still wonder how John Lennon fits in

[Kevy Baby]

I still wonder how John Lennon fits inHe is the translator.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

well, I'm sick & nude.The above is how lashbear lures his stoat into the bedroom...

[Tramspotter]

I think Tram has just committed a pictorial Godwinism.

I assumed Godwins law is null and void around here, as you in particularly are complicit in far too many Bush=Hittler hyperbolistc indulgances for me to count. :p

This is not a random book display but a best seller section. (that is all)

To answer EM's humerous derail bait, I don't care to discuss what F-ing red herring hippy icon he might or might not see in the background shelf.

If you think that carter is just an anti-zionist not an anti-semite then fine. If you wish to defend him or his views then fine.


The comparison probably goes too far for some comfort zones becaue if your all bent about it then you probably are either: 1.) A moral relativist or 2.) confused on the issue behind the dig on Carter being a useful idiot champion for a completely manufactured group of disenfranchised people.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Good jorb Trollspotter.

Speaking of derail bait, the OP was regarding "don't ask, don't tell." If you'd started a new thread, it would be so much easier to avoid.

The FCC says it's okay now to say "**** off."

[Alex]

But the board administrators don't.

[Not Afraid]

Well, we're a bit behind. ;)

[Kevy Baby]

I assumed Godwins law is null and void around here, as you in particularly are complicit in far too many Bush=Hittler hyperbolistc indulgances for me to count. :pWell, you would be 100% wrong. There are only two posts by Wendybeth that even have "Hitler" in them. And in both cases, it was in text she was quoting by another author (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=27549#post27549) - one of which is YOU (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=103450#post103450) making the comparison!

[mousepod]

Tramspotter,

Why do you bother?

[Tramspotter]

Good jorb Trollspotter.

Speaking of derail bait, the OP was regarding "don't ask, don't tell." If you'd started a new thread, it would be so much easier to avoid.

The FCC says it's okay now to say "**** off."

I didn't ask. :p

[Tramspotter]

Well, you would be 100% wrong. There are only two posts by Wendybeth that even have "Hitler" in them. And in both cases, it was in text she was quoting by another author (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=27549#post27549) - one of which is YOU (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=103450#post103450) making the comparison!

Why not create a boolian sentiment search?

[Tramspotter]

Tramspotter,

Why do you bother?

Why are you botherd?

[mousepod]

Troll.

[Tramspotter]

Well, you would be 100% wrong. There are only two posts by Wendybeth that even have "Hitler" in them. And in both cases, it was in text she was quoting by another author (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=27549#post27549) - one of which is YOU (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=103450#post103450) making the comparison!


I apologize you are completely right, I too did a bit of cross check searching. although Bush-Hitler hating is my term for high emotion based hatred of Republicans and wasen't ment to be taken literal I was just going on memory of WB positions and general bile toward Bush & Co, but your asumption is as good as mine, looking at some posts and recalling those I was put off by it's not Bush himself that's completely evil he's just an idiot pupet it's Cheney who is the real boogyman (Didn't do a carl Rove search though)

I think Cheney is truly evil personified

[mousepod]

The President and his team are lucky to have such an articulate troll to defend them in wonderfully creative non sequiturs. Bravo, Troll!

[Gemini Cricket]

Former Marine Officer Antonio Agnone Speaks Out Against 2008 Republican Candidates’ Debate
Wednesday, June 6, 2007
Hello, my name is Antonio Agnone. I’m a former officer in the United States Marine Corps.
Last night, the Republican candidates for president gathered together for a debate televised live to the world over CNN. They were asked on simple question — raise your hand if you support repealing the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. Not a single hand went in the air.
A little over a year ago, I finished my tour of duty in Iraq where I led a platoon of men to seek out and destroy IEDs — the weapon responsible for most of the casualties of American troops. In April, I chose to end my military service because of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”
To Republican candidates “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” clearly means an opportunity to score a few political points with an anti-gay base. To me, it meant the end of a career and a family legacy of service. To our country, it meant one less person on the battlefield doing his part to return America’s sons and daughters home safely.
Over 60,000 gay and lesbian Americans are currently serving on active duty around the world. It makes me think about the Arabic-speaking gay soldier on the streets of Baghdad. What must he think when he hears a candidate running to be commander in chief calls his life a “disruptive issue.”
On Tuesday, June 12, in Iowa, I'll join with other veterans to kick off the Human Rights Campaign’s national tour to repeal “Don't Ask, Don't Tell.” The tour starts in the battleground state of Iowa — at the epicenter of presidential politics. Because last night those candidates did more than just not raise their hand. They dishonored my service and the sacrifice of my brothers and sisters. And we’ll never forget.

Agnone is a “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” fellow for the Human Rights Campaign, and on Tuesday, June 12, 2007, in Des Moines, Iowa, he will join other veterans to kick-off a national tour to repeal “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”

(from the HRC website)

[JWBear]

But GC... Those fine, upstanding, defenders of morality and The American Way have a duty to protect our poor innocent troops from limp-wristed perverts who will ogle men in the showers and turn straight boys towards sexual degeneracy. :rolleyes:






(In case anyone doesn't know me by now, that was sarcasm.)

[Tramspotter]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][B]Former Marine Officer Antonio Agnone Speaks Out Against 2008 Republican Candidates’ Debate

Since you are for the most part preaching to the quire here (although hackles will be raised when I say) and for the most part a quire dis-favorable to military culture. (also note I withheld several "anti-gay" puns playing off of hymn's relating to said quire )

I ask you what would be some pitfalls of openly gay servicemen? And if you can identify any, how do you feel they should be alleviated without disruption.

Now imagine yourself doing such in a VFW bar... it's easy if you try.

[Tramspotter]

But GC... Those fine, upstanding, defenders of morality and The American Way have a duty to protect our poor innocent troops from limp-wristed perverts who will ogle men in the showers and turn straight boys towards sexual degeneracy. :rolleyes:



(In case anyone doesn't know me by now, that was sarcasm.)

Three Words: Precious bodily fluids

[Ghoulish Delight]

I ask you what would be some pitfalls of openly gay servicemen? And if you can identify any, how do you feel they should be alleviated without disruption.
It's an irrelevant question. What are some pitfalls of black servicemen? What are some pitfalls of really horny straight servicemen? What are some pitfalls of short servicemen? What are some pitfalls of servicewomen? What are some pitfalls of a half Italian, half German, American born serviceman named Klaus O'mally (the Italian side lived in Ireland for a couple generations and changed the name to assimilate) who's got one really short pinky toe and likes to collect baseball cards?

Who gives a crap if there are particulars that need to be figured out. Discrimination is discrimination and inviting people to start debating the minutia of exactly how to fix the moral outrage that is discrimination has no place in a discussion about whether to do away with said discrimination.

[JWBear]

Since you are for the most part preaching to the quire here ....

Why would one attempt to preach to a sheaf of paper?

[blueerica]

I'm just kind of annoyed with myself at the moment. Anything and everything I write just seems painfully obvious to me, so I keep backspacing it.

Out of the interest of my sanity, I'll just say for now that I agree wholeheartedly with GD - and furthermore - no first step when it comes to civil rights comes without opposition. Just as many were aghast when blacks and women began serving in the military, there will be many that are now. (again, obvious)

You also allude to the VFW likely not willing to accept gays. I'm not entirely sure why you chose them, since they aren't the ones who even need to be concerned with the sexual preferences of those out on the battlefield. I also tend to think that my views, and the views of a majority of the last couple of generations differ vastly from the views of the octogenarian set. I don't think anywhere in a repeal of the DADT policy is there the option for a soldier to behave out of order, whether he or she is straight, gay, or somewhere in between... so I guess I'm just not seeing the problem.

[Gemini Cricket]

Why would one attempt to preach to a sheaf of paper?
The words "quire" and "choir" are interchangeable.

[wendybeth]

Well, you would be 100% wrong. There are only two posts by Wendybeth that even have "Hitler" in them. And in both cases, it was in text she was quoting by another author (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=27549#post27549) - one of which is YOU (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?p=103450#post103450) making the comparison!

Hey, thanks KB!:cheers:

I don't mean to make light of whatever it is you were/are trying to say, Tram. Just trying to figure out what the hell you are saying is difficult enough.

[JWBear]

The words "quire" and "choir" are interchangeable.

When discussing archaic descriptions of Gothic architecture, maybe.

[Gemini Cricket]

When discussing archaic descriptions of Gothic architecture, maybe.
:shrug:
I got the info from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quire).
I've never seen it spelled like that so I looked it up.
:)

[Kevy Baby]

There is also a Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quire) definition as well.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It's an irrelevant question. What are some pitfalls of black servicemen? What are some pitfalls of really horny straight servicemen? What are some pitfalls of short servicemen? What are some pitfalls of servicewomen? What are some pitfalls of a half Italian, half German, American born serviceman named Klaus O'mally (the Italian side lived in Ireland for a couple generations and changed the name to assimilate) who's got one really short pinky toe and likes to collect baseball cards?

Who gives a crap if there are particulars that need to be figured out. Discrimination is discrimination and inviting people to start debating the minutia of exactly how to fix the moral outrage that is discrimination has no place in a discussion about whether to do away with said discrimination.<operatic voice> What...he....SAAAAAIIIIIIID! </opera>