Tell me about your town

[Prudence]

I'm applying for clerkships now throughout the ninth circuit area (and beyond.) I know little to nothing about life in these various cities. But you guys do!

So, if you see someplace on this list you know something about, please share. Is it great? Is it a bulging red pimple on the nose of the universe? Is it a fabulous place you want to keep safe from the likes of me? Is it too damn expensive and I'd better prepare to live in a cardboard box?

Here's a list of the cities currently under consideration:

LA
San Fran
San Diego
Pasadena
Reno
Las Vegas
Phoenix
Tucson
Sacramento
Spokane
Portland
Medford
Honolulu
Santa Ana
Fairbanks
Boise
Billings
Anchorage
Juneau
Riverside
Woodland Hills
Fresno
Oakland
San Jose
Missoula

And if your city isn't on the list but you think it's the best place to live and I should consider it - tell me! There are circuits beyond the ninth.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Woodland Hills

Grew up there. The good: Upscale and a generally safe part of Los Angeles (with pockets of unsavoriness, and even those are tame in the grand scheme). Ventura blvd is an entertaining stretch of road with some darn fine restaurants and shopping. Los Angeles is accessible...when traffic cooperates.

The bad: Traffic doesn't cooperate. It gets bloody hot. Ventura blvd gets old. Housing is bloody expensive, no matter what part of LA you end up in.

Santa Ana
The good: Disneyland close, LA close, moderate temps. If you're willing to handle a commute, "affordable" housing can be had further inland

The bad: The commute's pretty gnarly from "affordable" housing. Santa Ana itself is largely ghetto-ish (though there are plenty of alternatives to actually living IN Santa Ana). Orange County kinda sucks, ya end up driving to LA a lot.

[innerSpaceman]

There are circuits beyond the ninth.
Bite your tongue!


There are plenty of good towns and cities on your list. No need to go clerking for some barbaric circuit operating on some 19th century version of justice and jurisprudence, Prudence.

[Capt Jack]

San Diego
in alot of ways, see GD's post. pockets of bad surrounded by a majority of decent areas. traffic isnt what I'd call LA level, but it sure aint great and gets worse as the years go by. housing is pricey(period). I think the mid level for housing is from 400 to 500k. it can go way the 773H up from there without seeing alot of difference from the 400k versions. just location. gas is about as high here as anywhere in the US, considerably above the national average...so take that into account for sure

pretty laid back compared to some equally dense cities.
weather is hard to beat. it gets hot, but only maybe a week or two out of the year its really sucky. the rest is pretty tollerable depending on what micro climate you live in.

[BarTopDancer]

The commute's pretty gnarly from "affordable" housing.

Where is this affordable housing you speak of?

I agree with GDs assessment of Santa Ana. However there are a lot of areas that you can live in if you don't mind driving. Santa Ana has some nicer areas but most are ghettoish. Fullerton, Orange and Anaheim are right around Santa Ana. They have nice and bad areas. As does all of the state.

[Prudence]

(FYI: Seattle's pretty bad for traffic and housing too.)

[Alex]

I know I'll get laughed at, but of the cities with which I have any familiarity, I'd put Oakland up near the top of the list. While parts of Oakland are pretty much as bad as the reputation this is hardly true of the majority of the place and it is centrally located to all of the good things about the Bay Area without having to actually live with the people who think that San Francisco or Berkeley are evidence of God's beneficence.

The courthouse (which I presume is where you'd work) is well located for daytime dining and entertainment (not so much for evening as Oakland has not really had much success with revitalizing its downtown) and there are several nice and reasonably affordable (by local standards) neighborhoods within short driving distance. If you still want to live farther out in the suburbs it benefits from allowing you to skip the worst parts of the commute from many destinations.

As far as SF, I assume you won't be making much money and will end up commuting in from outside the city anyway, so you might as well go with Oakland.

So of the Bay Area choices, I'd rate it on top (without knowing anything about what makes a specific court better or worse for working; and knowing that the SF people will likely be appalled).

If you can handle the extremes of daylight and long winters then Anchorage is nice.

Reno is a place I like to go to gamble but I can't imagine why anybody would want to live there unless you really want proximity to good winter sports. It is boomtown that has busted. It lost the development war with Vegas and feels like it.

I saw earlier that you'd rejected Honolulu and I don't know why. Personally I found it a great place to live except for two things: I'm not a fan of tropical climate and I get island fever something awful. But otherwise I'd move back in a heartbeat.

If you're wanting something that is like Seattle but not actually in Seattle then Portland is your place. Imagine Seattle as a smaller town and you've pretty much got it.

Sacramento: Long stretches of 100+ degrees in the summer are not uncommon and it is a humid hot. That is a disqualifier for me but if not for you then it is only 80 minutes away from the best of the Bay Area, a couple hours from good skiing and is going through a boom that is bringing some culture to the area but with room for growth keeping prices somewhat down.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Medford but what I have the place felt like a suburb without any nearby city. If you're big into theater, the Oregon Shakespeare Festival has its seasons in nearby Ashland. The worst winter weather on the west side of the Oregon Cascades.

[wendybeth]

I see Spokane is on the list, but I know you are far too smart to even consider it. I concur with Alex about Portland- nice place, not too big but still plenty to do and fairly progressive. Housing is expensive, but it's getting that way nearly everywhere.

[Gemini Cricket]

San Diego
Honolulu
Pasadena

I vote for those.

[Prudence]

San Diego
Honolulu
Pasadena

I vote for those.

Might you perhaps have more information for me than a vote? I've never been to those three places.

[Prudence]

I see Spokane is on the list, but I know you are far too smart to even consider it.

I am desperate, and thus I am actually considering it.

I did, however, leave Yakima off the list. I do have some standards, low though they might be.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Where is this affordable housing you speak of?
I didn't say affordable, I said "affordable".

(FYI: Seattle's pretty bad for traffic and housing too.)To work in Santa Ana and live anywhere that you can actually purchase a home for under $500,000 (if you want to live near Santa Ana, you're lucky to get a condo in a decent neighborhood for $400k), you have to endure a commute over a distance that, without traffic, would take ~20-30 minutes but with normal rush hour traffic can take upwards of 90 minutes - 2 hours. And, seeing as you're likely to want to come into the heart of OC or go up to LA more often than not for entertainment, you'd be making that drive. A lot.

Don't get me wrong, if you can afford the outrageous prices to either purchase or rent, and/or you can deal with abominable traffic, it's got a lot to offer. But it's hard to understate those two issues here.

[Prudence]

There are plenty of good towns and cities on your list. No need to go clerking for some barbaric circuit operating on some 19th century version of justice and jurisprudence, Prudence.

As much as I would love to stay within the ninth circuit, the unfortunately reality is that it is one of the three most competitive circuits for clerkship positions (the other two being the second and D.C. circuits.) And while I might have a wall full of awards and a ranking near the top of my class, the reality is that I will not have a degree from a top 12 school, and thus there are many judges who will send my resume directly to the round file. Hence, I have to cast a fairly wide net.

[AllyOops!]

I vote L.A. or Woodland Hills, because....



<---------- You can hang out with this! Now, if that ain't incentive, I don't know what is. ;)

[BarTopDancer]

I didn't say affordable, I said "affordable".


Ok, where is this "affordable" housing you speak of.

Affordable, "affordable". When talking OC it's the same thing - not.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ok, where is this "affordable" housing you speak of.

Affordable, "affordable". When talking OC it's the same thing - not.Corona/Riverside. Had we been willing to live there and commute, we could have afforded a single family home for what we paid for our condo in Orange (Santa Ana adjacent).

[Snowflake]

San Francisco is expensive, the rents are outrageous. I only skirted by because I moved back into my old rent-controlled apartment.

That said, the entire Bay Area can be such fun, heck, the entire state of California can be such fun.

I'm sorry Pru, I can't be of any real help except thinking that CA is a good move, it would be a pleasure just knowing you are in the same state. Might havea better chance of crossing paths! :cool:

[Strangler Lewis]

As much as I would love to stay within the ninth circuit, the unfortunately reality is that it is one of the three most competitive circuits for clerkship positions (the other two being the second and D.C. circuits.) And while I might have a wall full of awards and a ranking near the top of my class, the reality is that I will not have a degree from a top 12 school, and thus there are many judges who will send my resume directly to the round file. Hence, I have to cast a fairly wide net.

When I was in law school, the joke ran that there were twenty top ten schools.

My vote is that if you're applying for one year clerkships as opposed to permanent staff attorney positions, local quality of life should not be a consideration. I would think that a Ninth Circuit clerkship for a judge based in Anchorage would be as valuable to a firm, wherever it's based, as one for a judge based in Los Angeles or San Francisco. There might be some variance for district court clerkships, but I doubt it. You should ask your career guidance counselors what they think. If they're not on break.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Anchorage is a great town.

[katiesue]

I grew up in Northern CA (not the bay area keep going north). Sacramento isn't bad. My sister lives there and likes it. It's close to the bay area and the sierra's.

Reno was the closest city to us growing up. It's grown a lot in the last few years with a lot of new business and developments. Yes they lost the casino wars but then we never really went to any of the casino's anyway. It's pretty affordable and traffic isn't bad. And it is the "Biggest Little City in the World".

[katiesue]

Anchorage is a great town.

I agree.

[3894]

It's a college town far from the bright lights. The cost-of-living is lower than on the coast, of course. The weather is harsher. Scenery is purtier. You've got your micro-brews, your cowboys, and your trout streams in abundance.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh hey, Anchorage is actually on your list.

I don't know if I could live there for an extended period of time, but if you really are looking at this as just a short term thing, and springboard elsewhere, you might want to jump on the opportunity to live in Anchorage. Food and other goods can be pricey, but land is cheap, there's no state tax, and you get a couple thousand dollars of oil revenue sharing money every year. Of course, I haven't experienced winter there, there's no denying that it's harsh. But if you even glanced at our absurdly large photo album from our trip last May you know just how astoundingly beautiful it is there. It's a whole other world, a life experience you can't possibly get anywhere else on that list. Except maybe Fairbanks...but it doesn't have the ocean to keep things at least partially moderate, weather-wise. As I understand it, that 300 mile difference is a big one.

[Prudence]

I'm a little torn about the temporary/permanent thing. I'd really like to do a federal appellate clerkship at some point, which will likely mean at least one year at the district court level first - or two years at state court. So, that's up to three years clerking. Assuming any federal appellate judge would have me, considering the lack of prestige associated with my institution of higher learning.

I'm also torn on the term/career clerk decision. I'm not sure I would be happy in a conventional firm. I might be happy, however, clerking for a number of years and moving into government or policy work. Which means I might end up staying put for awhile.

Plus, I hate moving, so I'd like to do it as little as possible.

So, I guess I'd rank places that are nice to live long-term over places that would be tolerable for a year.

Alaska does rate somewhat high on my list for its potential to involve not having neighbors so close I could lean out my kitchen and smack them. But it's pretty far away from anyone I know, any family, and anything we like to do. Conversely, California is closer to people I know and the weather wouldn't prohibit family visiting for Christmas, but damn there are a lot of people.

(That's why Sacramento was on the list, actually - in California, close enough for driving vacations to places we like to go, but housing seemed relatively affordable - which makes me wonder what's wrong with Sacramento.)

[Snowflake]

(That's why Sacramento was on the list, actually - in California, close enough for driving vacations to places we like to go, but housing seemed relatively affordable - which makes me wonder what's wrong with Sacramento.)

It's effin hot in Sacramento.

[blueerica]

I didn't say affordable, I said "affordable".

To work in Santa Ana and live anywhere that you can actually purchase a home for under $500,000 (if you want to live near Santa Ana, you're lucky to get a condo in a decent neighborhood for $400k), you have to endure a commute over a distance that, without traffic, would take ~20-30 minutes but with normal rush hour traffic can take upwards of 90 minutes - 2 hours. And, seeing as you're likely to want to come into the heart of OC or go up to LA more often than not for entertainment, you'd be making that drive. A lot.

Don't get me wrong, if you can afford the outrageous prices to either purchase or rent, and/or you can deal with abominable traffic, it's got a lot to offer. But it's hard to understate those two issues here.

My mom got a condo 4 years ago that's a stone's throw from Santa Ana in Costa Mesa off Fairview and South Coast. It was $350 K (I think), and in a great neighborhood. The plus-side to that place is that you can get into any area of Santa Ana (traffic or not) within 20 minutes without speeding or running red lights. ;) Just don't get on the freeway there from 7AM to 11AM or from 2PM to 7-8PM.

Hahaha.

[Alex]

(That's why Sacramento was on the list, actually - in California, close enough for driving vacations to places we like to go, but housing seemed relatively affordable - which makes me wonder what's wrong with Sacramento.)

Housing has stayed mostly affordable in Sacramento because unlike many other big California cities it is not geographically restrained. It has room for physical growth in pretty much every direction. Downtown is starting to heat up.

Plus, it's effin' hot in the summer.

[JWBear]

My mom got a condo 4 years ago that's a stone's throw from Santa Ana in Costa Mesa off Fairview and South Coast. It was $350 K (I think), and in a great neighborhood. The plus-side to that place is that you can get into any area of Santa Ana (traffic or not) within 20 minutes without speeding or running red lights. ;) Just don't get on the freeway there from 7AM to 11AM or from 2PM to 7-8PM.

Hahaha.

The key words here are "4 years ago". Housing prices in OC have risen dramatically since then. I doubt you could get anything decent in CM for that now.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, and it's effin' hot almost year round anyplace you could afford to buy a house in Southern California ... plus those locations do not have what we like to call "air," but rather a compustible mixure of pollutants that the body's lungs will grudgingly accept .... until they prematurely don't.

[katiesue]

Every area has it's drawbacks. You just have to figure out which ones you can live with. Sacramento is hot in the summer, but maybe heat doesn't bother you. LA area has traffic but maybe a few hours alone in your car every day is ok with you.

I have a former co-worker who moved to Chicago from San Diego, huge change there. They love it. They love having so much to do nearby, easy public transportation and as long as you don't stand around outside in the winter it's not so bad.

One of my best friends lives in Portland because she can't stand heat. Another lives in Phoenix cause she can't take the cold.

Personally I'd rather move somewhere smaller. But unfortunatley I'm stuck here for another 7 years so just have to make the best of it.

[Not Afraid]

My vote is that if you're applying for one year clerkships as opposed to permanent staff attorney positions, local quality of life should not be a consideration. I would think that a Ninth Circuit clerkship for a judge based in Anchorage would be as valuable to a firm, wherever it's based, as one for a judge based in Los Angeles or San Francisco. There might be some variance for district court clerkships, but I doubt it. You should ask your career guidance counselors what they think. If they're not on break.

I just remembered you guys were thinking about moving to Ketchikan Alaska!

Pasadena
Woodland Hills
LA
Santa Ana

You've got a lot of living options living in the "greater LA area". Traffic can be nasty, but everyone drives (unless you have a train option, whcih is fantastic but small). Santa Ana is central to a lot of areas and you can get there fairly easily from the coastal communities (where I prefer to live). Pasadena is a great town with lots of cool little communities surrounding it. Woodland Hills is a mystery - as is most of the Valley.

ALL of these areas have both good and bad neighborhoods within easy commute and 2 have public transportation options (depending on where the court is is LA).

Portland
Portland is a nice city, but smaller in feel than Seattle. I wouldn't be opposed to living there, but it is not in my top 5.

Honolulu
At least it is on the Big Island so the island fever would be less. I'm not sure I could live on an island, though.

Fairbanks
Anchorage
Juneau
I've never been to Alaska, but I think it would be a nice adventure.

Oakland
San Fran
San Jose
The bay area is expensive but nice.

Missoula
Boise
Billings
More adventure. Hell, for a year or two, I'd move just about anywhere.

[Strangler Lewis]

I just remembered you guys were thinking about moving to Ketchikan Alaska!


Ah, yes, the year of exploding job offers in the early 90s recession. The firm that had offered me a job fell apart. I then accepted a clerkship offer from a superior court judge in Ketchikan, which would have meant another year of long distance relationship idiocy with my wife, who had a job in San Francisco. But we were prepared to do it. Then, the judge called me and said that because the price of oil had dropped, there was a real danger that the position would be eliminated. Unemployment was something I couldn't gamble with, so I got a research attorney job that came up at the San Francisco Superior Court. A year later, a law school friend of ours who had been laid off got the Ketchikan job, went up there for a year and had a great time.

[blueerica]

The key words here are "4 years ago". Housing prices in OC have risen dramatically since then. I doubt you could get anything decent in CM for that now.

Wow, and here I thought things were leveling out. :(

Shows how much I know. Makes moving away all that much more appealing.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow, and here I thought things were leveling out. :(.They are, but that only started about 8 months ago (you know, right when we put ourselves in massive debt to buy our place).

[Kevy Baby]

(you know, right when we put ourselves in massive debt to buy our place).Yeah, I did that back in '92 - bought right before a big dip :(

[cirquelover]

I would be miserable if I had to move to Medford, OR. It is hot, dingy and the politics are not something I would want to be in the middle of. It is near nothing of any importance except the Shakespearean Festival. The mountains are nice but you can find mountains anywhere. The only reason we ever go down there is when my husband races his car, which thankfully we haven't had to do this year!!

Please mark that one off of your list.

[3894]

It is near nothing of any importance except the Shakespearean Festival.

A college roommate was from Medford via Santa Clara, CA. The Shakespeare Festival is IT which, for the townies, means getting to know people like David Ogden Stiers. Also, let's not forget that Harry & David is hq'd there and has an outlet. Shakespeare and Pears You Can Eat with a Spoon at off-price - not too shabby.

[Stan4dSteph]

I like the CA Bay Area, but most of it is very expensive. Alex summed it up pretty well in his posts.

Is the Northeast pretty much out?

[Alex]

Honolulu
At least it is on the Big Island so the island fever would be less. I'm not sure I could live on an island, though.


Honolulu is on Oahu, not the Big Island. A grand circle trip around Oahu is about 70 miles (though that requires taking some surface streets so you can delude yourself it is longer since it will take longer.

[Prudence]

Is the Northeast pretty much out?

At the moment I'm concentrating on west coast and places where I have family (Des Moines and Orlando) and actually spent time. Anything 2nd circuit area (New York) faces the same competition challenges as the 9th.

But, that's why I'm also looking for recommendations. If there's some place not on the list that you think is amazing, please tell me what it is and why it's amazing.

In a normal job search process I'd apply various places, go on interviews, and if I got an offer, take a few days to consider it, explore the area, etc... If I get a clerkship offer, I won't have that luxury. One is expected to accept any offer if one is given - and they can come as early as during the interview. It's considered bad form to even take 20 minutes to call your family. So I have to be absolutely okay with living in any of the cities to which I send applications.

[Alex]

Most of the Seattle area people I know who have made the move end up really loving Chicago (once they get used to the idea of extreme summers and winters).

To name a place not on your list.

[Morrigoon]

LA - too big an area to summarize, could be anywhere. Plenty of choice on great places to live, almost all with a significant commute.
San Fran - what, in the City? High cost of living, but if you're near a BART station, you can actually live across the bay as far away as Concord and Walnut Creek or down the peninsula a bit from the City, which would also work. Bay area people loooove the Bay area. NoCal isn't for me though, so the question is, are you the NoCal type or the SoCal type?
San Diego - Chernabog loved it when he lived there. Easy access to lower-priced areas, but San Diego made a recent list of most overpriced (compared to avg income) cities in America. So did LA. Not OC though :)
Pasadena - Beautiful. South Pasadena gets a bit sketchy, but for the most part Pasadena is awesome
Reno - Haven't lived there. Haven't heard anyone rave about living there. Prices will be quite decent though, and you're close to skiing in Tahoe.
Las Vegas - Like SoCal, only REALLY far inland. Not quite as nice a place to live as it was 5 years ago because it grew so much, but I loved it there. Avoid Summerlin unless you like HOA interference level set to "Nazi". However, that whole west side, up the hill from the strip is a great place to live. A lot of the new stuff on the southwest end should be great. Prices have been declining a bit, but they gained a lot beforehand. Still, compared to CA, much more affordable.
Phoenix - Saw a LoT of growth in the boom. Sellers suffering now. Could probably bargain and pick up a deal from over-invested speculators
Tucson - no idea
Sacramento - Depends. Some nice rural and suburban areas. Not far from Tahoe, but not as close as Reno
Spokane - no idea
Portland - no idea
Medford - no idea
Honolulu - Well hey, it's Hawaii. Prices are high though. But... it's Hawaii.
Santa Ana - You wouldn't wanna live *in* Santa Ana necessarily, but plenty of great areas within close commuting distance, and it's near Disneyland! You'd have LoTers near you in Garden Grove, Orange, Lake Forest, Costa Mesa, just all around you!
Fairbanks - Alaska? Gorgeous landscape and about 8 men to every woman (as they say, "The odds are good, but the goods are odd.") Actually, I don't know, I've never been there myself.
Boise - I keep hearing buzz about Idaho. It's probably nice.
Billings - no idea
Anchorage - Alaska?
Juneau - They really want you in Alaska, don't they?
Riverside - "The I.E." It's where people move to when OC is too expensive. Really grown in the last few years. The area gets mixed reviews, some love it, some don't.
Woodland Hills - it's like, The Valley, okay? I grew up in Chatsworth, not far from there. Nice place, but I see the Valley as a declining area. Still, would be a decent choice to start with.
Fresno - growth area. No longer "dee ends of dee urt" like it once was. Some folks say it's quite nice.
Oakland - no. Okay, not "no", but you'll want to commute in. Like San Fran, consider coming in from Walnut Creek
San Jose - Not wholly familiar with the area, but probably alright. Dot com boom had an effect on prices. Pixar is near there.
Missoula - I have one friend in Montana... she can't wait to leave. She's in Missoula. However, she does like the wild areas.

[Morrigoon]

The key words here are "4 years ago". Housing prices in OC have risen dramatically since then. I doubt you could get anything decent in CM for that now.
However, you CAN get something nice in Lake Forest at near that price :)

[Alex]

Oakland - no. Okay, not "no", but you'll want to commute in. Like San Fran, consider coming in from Walnut Creek

Not to get argumentative but unless you really love suburban living, advocating living in Walnut Creek is just mean. Are you familiar with Oakland or just going off the reputation because I'd move back to the Grandlake, Rockridge, Monte Vista, or Jack London areas in a heartbeat.

[Kevy Baby]

Rockridge...Rockridge? Do they have cardboard standees of all of the residents?

[Alex]

No. But since I'm obviously missing a reference I figure I'll ask.

[Kevy Baby]

No. But since I'm obviously missing a reference I figure I'll ask.Blazing Saddles (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/).

In an attempt to defend the town of Rock Ridge, the townspeople build a false front replica of their town and populate it with standee replicas of themselves.

[Morrigoon]

Not to get argumentative but unless you really love suburban living, advocating living in Walnut Creek is just mean. Are you familiar with Oakland or just going off the reputation because I'd move back to the Grandlake, Rockridge, Monte Vista, or Jack London areas in a heartbeat.

Well, I do like suburban living, and I think Walnut Creek is a neat little city. However, I will fully admit that that is the closest I've come to living in Oakland, and if you say there are nice parts, I'll take your word for it. But bear in mind Prudence will be working in the court system, which means going to work, well, where the courts are. In most cities that's not the nice part. Admittedly I'm going off a lot of assumptions there. Beyond Jack London Square, I have not seen much to recommend Oakland. But again, that's my experience, YMMV.

To be honest, I wouldn't recommend living in NoCal at all if I didn't recognize that there are some folks whose personalities are more suited to it than SoCal. I've lived up there twice and both times couldn't wait to get back to SoCal, despite living in some pretty nice areas (Danville, Benecia). For me the Bay Area is a nice place to visit. But it wears out its welcome. I figure people are either NoCalers or SoCalers, and I'm a dyed-in-the-wool SoCal girl.

[Prudence]

So, what's the difference between a NoCaler and a SoCaler?

[Morrigoon]

Hard to say. You're just one or the other. NoCalers generally dislike living in SoCal, and vice versa.

[Alex]

The courthouse is right on Lake Merritt and I used to run near there all of the time at night. No it isn't the nicest downtown in the world but it isn't the worst either.

But yeah, it is hard to know what Prudence's temperament is for city living (I don't know where she lives in Seattle). And while I can tolerate Northern California (though don't really like it) I find the thought of living in Southern California abominable. I also can't fathom liking suburban life so we're definitely going to be giving difference viewpoints.

[Morrigoon]

Which is what's so awesome about this board :)

For me, while I like being near lots of stuff and excitement, I don't want to do it if I can't find parking. So needless to say, I don't like super dense areas.

[3894]

So, what's the difference between a NoCaler and a SoCaler?

That's a thread in itself.

[Moonliner]

The ninth circuit?

Oh please! Everyone knows the 9th is a bunch of dweebs.

Anyone who's a hoopy frood is chilin with the Fourth Circuit. Yeah, that's where you belong!

[Morrigoon]

I have no idea what he said, but he sounded cool doing it.

[Moonliner]

I have no idea what he said..

That's OK. As long as you know where your towel is at you can hitch with me any day.

[Kevy Baby]

So, what's the difference between a NoCaler and a SoCaler?Depth perception

[Strangler Lewis]

So, what's the difference between a NoCaler and a SoCaler?

Politics, for one thing.

Beyond that, I'm not sure it's that simple. Northern or southern, I tend to group people by the degree to which they feel they're not alive unless they're rumbling around in some vehicle. Once you get beyond SF/Oakland/Berkeley in the Northern California region, this disease is just as prevalent as it is in southern California.

All the livable cities articles state that the requirement of a livable city is good public transportation and a nice walkable downtown that's not too far removed from residential areas. I think more northern California cities fit that bill than southern California cities which are more heavily populated with strip malls.

[Not Afraid]

There are certainly generalities attributed to N. Ca and S. Ca but it seems to depend on how close you are to the coast. The Northern coastal part of the state is generally considered more liberal than the Southern part (where coastal access doesn't seem to matter too much in political leanings). The South is a LOT more populous than the North with more development, more people, more freeways, more housing tracts, more strip malls, etc. Not too far north of San Francisco you hit pretty rural areas fairly quickly. The entire northern part of the state is relatively empty (compared to the populous south). Inland, Central California can get pretty redneck in places and downright conservative - at least the rural places my siblings have lived.

[Jughead P. Jones]

My town is filled with 21,000 people...and our largest building is a mental hospital. You figure it out from there...

[Moonliner]

My town is filled with 21,000 people...and our largest building is a mental hospital. You figure it out from there...

What a coincidence, that's true of my town too (http://www.highrock.com/WashingtonDC/Capitol%20reflecting_b.jpg)!

[katiesue]

My hometown is 15,000 and our biggest building is a prision. Well there are two actually and that accounts for a good chunk of the population as well.

Being from North Eastern California, Lassen County specifically it's a whole other world up there. Very conservative, very redneck.

[Jughead P. Jones]

Wow...there are more of us "normal" people in crazy towns than I thought. LOL!

[Prudence]

Anyone who's a hoopy frood is chilin with the Fourth Circuit. Yeah, that's where you belong!

Oh, the spousal unit would *love* that. He'd put Virginia in his top 5 states. Me, I'm not sure that would be such a good idea.

[Gemini Cricket]

What about Shelbyville? They have yellow fire hydrants...

[~MS~]

My hometown is 15,000 and our biggest building is a prision. Well there are two actually and that accounts for a good chunk of the population as well.

Being from North Eastern California, Lassen County specifically it's a whole other world up there. Very conservative, very redneck.



Not trying to derail the thread but wowzers Katiesue! 25 years in Janesville, worked at CCC for my brief career as a Corrections officer before the birth of Miss B. Husband has lots of extended family still up there, we have good friends but I don't miss the place other than a very short (did I mention SHORT) list of close friends who haven't left the area yet. I doubt they will considering they are horse/mule folks and need the acres to support their animals.

BTW to get back on track, I totally agree about the rural/redneck/good ol boy system up there, we won't even go into the lack of decent medical care....

[Alex]

If you're going to live in small town Northern California doesn't a juvenile sense of humor pretty much require that you live in Weed?

[SacTown Chronic]

Sacramento has whales. Who doesn't love whales?



So, what's the difference between a NoCaler and a SoCaler?NorCal has superior weed.

[~MS~]

If you're going to live in small town Northern California doesn't a juvenile sense of humor pretty much require that you live in Weed?



LOL Alex! seriously Weed is bigger than Janesville, it would have been a "step up" population and amenities not to mention being on a major highway vs 395/36....big trips to either Reno (70 miles one direction for us) or down to the Redding area...about 120 from my driveway....Weed would have been a total 'step up'

[Jughead P. Jones]

What about Shelbyville? They have yellow fire hydrants...


Yellow fire hydrants are pretty...:cool:

[Alex]

I've always wanted to do the drive north from Reno on 395 all the way to Canada (the closest I've come is 95 south from BC through Idaho to Reno).

I know nothing about Weed other than having driven through it on the 97 route from Oregon (and, of course driving by it many times on I-5). But just the name puts it in the top 12 "small town living possibilities."

Boring, Oregon, is on that list (though should probably be removed for having been eaten up by Portland.

[ozron]

I generally consider everything north of Santa Rosa not so much Northern California but really deep Southern Oregon.

[~MS~]

The 395 North run is very very pretty Alex, you and Lani would enjoy it...not a lot of 'heavy' traffic, LOTS of small towns to drive thru...but be wary, lots of 'speed trap' level law enforcement unfortunately.

[katiesue]

Not trying to derail the thread but wowzers Katiesue! 25 years in Janesville, worked at CCC for my brief career as a Corrections officer before the birth of Miss B. Husband has lots of extended family still up there, we have good friends but I don't miss the place other than a very short (did I mention SHORT) list of close friends who haven't left the area yet. I doubt they will considering they are horse/mule folks and need the acres to support their animals.

BTW to get back on track, I totally agree about the rural/redneck/good ol boy system up there, we won't even go into the lack of decent medical care....

I think I'm 5th or 6th generation on my Dad's side from Lassen county. Three of my grandparents and both my parents graduated from LUHS. It's home. Even if it's rural and redneck. Mecial care you just go to Reno. I still have lots of family there. Most of my friends have moved. My mom still lives in the same house we bought from my grandmother. Great now I'm homesick.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/kathyteater/496575825203_0_SM.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/kathyteater/225655825203_0_SM.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/kathyteater/202285825203_0_SM.jpg

[~MS~]

Yeah all of Brandys specialist were in Reno, Hubby spent some time at St. Marys when he trashed his Harley out by the dairy...all 3 of our kids were born at Lassen community before the new hospital was built...all 3 graduated from LUHS....go Grizzlies!

Oh man I just noticed your pics!

LOVE em!

[Prudence]

I'm so conflicted about Alaska.

On the plus side - much less populated, cheaper real estate, and they have no law school so there are no "locals" to compete with. (Actually, based on the summer in Alaska program operated from my school, we sort of are the locals.)

On the minus side - darkness. Not so much a problem for me (although I'm kind of getting in to gardening) but definitely a potential problem for the spouse, who already has problems with winters here, much less further north.

California and Arizona have the sun going for them. Sun = more gardening for me (I'm getting obsessed with growing my own veggies) and better moods for Ryan. I'm also throwing Orlando into the mix, as I have family there. (And if I can't be near DL, I could at least be part of the WDW welcoming committee.) And I've been to Orlando and I actually like it. I can stand the heat. And my asthma actually does much better with some humidity.


Which means I'm also curious about: Ocala, Miami, Tallahassee, Pensacola, Panama City, West Palm Beach, and Fort Lauderdale.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Sun = more gardening for me (I'm getting obsessed with growing my own veggies) and better moods for Ryan. Don't forget the consolation for 4 months of near-constant darkness is 4 months of near-constant sun. I understand they have an incredible marij growing season as a result.

[sleepyjeff]

Boring, Oregon, is on that list (though should probably be removed for having been eaten up by Portland.

My Grandfather built the Baptist* church in Boring...it's still fairly rural out there although housing developments are starting to crowd the main highway.







*No, I am not. Lutheran if you must know

[katiesue]

So as happens in all small towns. Turns out MS's hubby's sister C is married to my cousin J. There is no escaping the small town. But then that's the beauty of it.

[~MS~]

Six degrees...never ceases to amaze me LOL

[Drince88]

Which means I'm also curious about: Ocala, Miami, Tallahassee, Pensacola, Panama City, West Palm Beach, and Fort Lauderdale.
If you're anywhere that's not equal distance to the Gulf and Atlantic (and I think all of these are on one coast or the other), you have to deal with hurricane preparedness (which is a PITA and the season 'starts' Friday :rolleyes: )

[Prudence]

I forgot that I also have family in North Carolina, so that state is now also on the list. (And I feel pretty silly about forgetting that, since it's my one relative who's an attorney.) Anyone have info on Raleigh or New Bern?

Oh, and for the middle-of-the-country people - Cedar Rapids? I've been to Des Moines enough times to have my own opinion there, but I don't think I've ever been to Cedar Rapids.

[ozron]

I've thought long and hard about answering this without overselling Portland.

Just come visit. You'll fall in love.

ron

[Prudence]

I'm a little freaked out by the competition in the 9th circuit (judges receiving over 900 applications!), so I'm casting the net a little wider.

Any first-hand info on:

Santa Fe
Las Cruces
Denver
Charleston (WV, not SC)
Macon
Atlanta
Syracuse
Lawrence (KS)
Cleveland
Baltimore
Philly
Pittsburgh

????

More later, probably.

[Morrigoon]

Pru: to stand out from the crowd, how about sending "just a notes" to the judges you most want to work for (eg: small greeting cards, which you can probably get from vistaprint.com)

[katiesue]

One of my good friends lives in Macon and LOVES it. They've been there about 8 years now. Housing prices are great and she loves the people.

She formerly lived in Denver and hated but another friend lived there for years and totally loved it.

[Prudence]

Pru: to stand out from the crowd, how about sending "just a notes" to the judges you most want to work for (eg: small greeting cards, which you can probably get from vistaprint.com)

That falls into the category of Things That Are Not Done. I might stand out, but not in a good way. Many judges state right in the description that you're not to contact chambers for any reason, except to withdraw from consideration.

I'm already bucking the rules by including actual content in my cover letter, when most schools advise sending something that is more like

"Dear Judge Smith:

I am applying for a position in your chambers for the 2008-2009 term. Enclosed please find my resume, law and undergraduate transcripts, writing sample, and letters from:

Professor X
Professor Y
Professor Z

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Jane Q. Student."

Seriously. No actual content. (Of course, as my adviser notes, when you come from Harvard, you don't need content.) Persuasive letters are frowned on by most everyone, but I'm not a typical candidate, so I have to say more.

In short: my cover letter may get derisive comments from individual judges, but they likely won't phone up their colleagues to talk about the idiot from Seattle. Sending something to the judges, on the other hand, might.

[Morrigoon]

Seriously? Notecards would actually be bad?

Wow... strange profession. Then again - it is the government.

[Matterhorn Fan]

I suspect sending a notecard would be viewed as "cutesy" and/or unprofessional--along the same lines as pink perfumed resume paper.

Pru, please don't use pink perfumed resume paper.

[Strangler Lewis]

Didn't it work in "Legally Blonde?"

[Prudence]

Pru, please don't use pink perfumed resume paper.

Oh, of course not. Mine is more of a periwinkle.






:p

[Matterhorn Fan]

Didn't it work in "Legally Blonde?"
I think you can only get away with that kind of thing if you go to Harvard.

[Prudence]

I think that if you went to Harvard you could get away with sending in a used napkin with "Harvard graduate" and your phone number scribbled on it in crayon and you'd get an interview. For the mere mortals, it's some sort of nightmare cotillion where you're wearing a hand-me-down dress, your escort is missing, and if no one asks you to dance your white picket dreams will be shattered.

[Kevy Baby]

Santa FeI have visited there twice - both times on Christmas Eve. We walked through the Old Town section that is lit up with thousands of luminarias. You can walk from bonfire to bonfire (it is usually butt-cold) and enjoy carolers. Definitely one of the best Christmas spirit experiences I have ever had.

[Stan4dSteph]

SyracuseUh oh. You probably don't realize how much the weather SUCKS in Syracuse. Like way sucks. Also, I don't think there's much to do there.

Any reason why you singled out Syracuse in the 2nd Circuit? I grew up in the Rochester area. The weather there can be crummy too, but I like the city as a whole. I live in the Albany area now. The housing market here is inflated IMO, but it's close to NYC, Boston and Montreal.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Pru, you need to do some major traveling and visit some of these places. Nothing like seeing a town for yourself.

[Alex]

Seriously? Notecards would actually be bad?

Wow... strange profession. Then again - it is the government.

I don't work in government and while getting secondary communications wouldn't be "bad" they generally would be ignored and thrown out.

[alphabassettgrrl]

LA- I live in suburbia and I like it.
Pasadena- Cute place. Lots of shopping. Seems compact enough to be within bicycle distance of things. On the Metro train line.
Las Vegas- parts are sketchy. Nearly affordable housing is still to be had I understand. Good night life. The Strip has a bus system that in my limited use seems pretty logical.
Boise - not a lot going on here. Cold winters, decent summers. Your commute shouldn't be too bad here. You might have to deal with rednecks though.
Billings - same. I visited Billings once and it was nice. Rednecks again though which can be a problem sometimes. If you can blend, you'll be fine. I couldn't blend.
Missoula- more of a hippie town, so the political atmosphere might be a little nicer. Weather's nicer than a lot of other parts of MT.
Denver- A little more liberal than the rest of the area. It's a real city, so you'll have things to do. They do have winter though which is really cold and really long.

[Prudence]

Uh oh. You probably don't realize how much the weather SUCKS in Syracuse. Like way sucks. Also, I don't think there's much to do there.

Any reason why you singled out Syracuse in the 2nd Circuit? I grew up in the Rochester area. The weather there can be crummy too, but I like the city as a whole. I live in the Albany area now. The housing market here is inflated IMO, but it's close to NYC, Boston and Montreal.

Because a) it's as far north as the spousal unit will go, b) it's not as prohibitively expensive as NYC, and c) there's a judge there with an opening. If more judges post openings in other cities in the 2nd circuit, I might consider them. Also, I'm more willing to go somewhere somewhat unpleasant for a court of appeals (such as here) than I am for district court.

[Prudence]

Pru, you need to do some major traveling and visit some of these places. Nothing like seeing a town for yourself.

I'd love to, but there's no way I could afford to go see all those places. Actually, with the current state of affairs, I can't afford to go see any of those places. If I apply and get an interview, likely that interview would be the first chance I had to scout out the area, and there would be a reasonable possibility of getting an offer on the spot, which I would be obligated to accept.

I can learn a little bit from the glorious wikipedia, but since I can't actually go to all these places myself, the next best thing is hearing from others who have been there.

[Stan4dSteph]

Because a) it's as far north as the spousal unit will go, b) it's not as prohibitively expensive as NYC, and c) there's a judge there with an opening. If more judges post openings in other cities in the 2nd circuit, I might consider them. Also, I'm more willing to go somewhere somewhat unpleasant for a court of appeals (such as here) than I am for district court.The one nice thing about Syracuse: at least you'll be able to shop at Wegmans.

[Matterhorn Fan]

The one nice thing about Syracuse: at least you'll be able to shop at Wegmans.That is a selling point.

[blueerica]

In my Business Law class (version 4.0) we were talking about clerkship, and I immediately thought of you. I'm crossing my fingers and toes for you - keep keeping us updated!

[Prudence]

In my Business Law class (version 4.0) we were talking about clerkship, and I immediately thought of you. I'm crossing my fingers and toes for you - keep keeping us updated!

I actually met with the Dean today to talk about her experiences clerking. I am waiting for a batch of hard copy reference letters to be ready (40-some) and then I'll be sending out some applications for judges that don't follow the hiring plan (as they could hire at any time) and some others that accept applications by mail. Which means I really need to draft my district court cover letter this weekend.

Then it's the "big push", with about 100 online applications.

And I may not start to hear anything - assuming I do hear anything - until September.

[Prudence]

Minor update - nothing exciting or worth a new thread.

So, it's been ups and downs. The hiring plan people changed the rules and I can't apply for hiring plan jobs now until 9/4. But they're not all hiring plan jobs, so I'm sending out some apps now.

So far, apps have been officially sent to the following cities:

Fairbanks, AK
Birmingham, AL
Montgomery, AL
Tucson, AZ
Pasadena, CA
Fort Myers, FL
Miami, FL
Orlando, FL
Pensacola, FL
Atlanta, GA
Albuquerque, NM
Santa Fe, NM
Reno, NV
Charleston, SC
Greenville, SC
Norfolk, VA

Tomorrow two more are going to:

Savannah, GA
Portland, OR

[alphabassettgrrl]

Ooooh, good luck! Come to California and play with us. :)

[sleepyjeff]

Crossing my fingers for your Portland app:)

[blueerica]

So no Idaho? I'll be all alone in northern Utah come next year.

Think of ME.... me me meeee! :)

*sniffles*

Good luck, really... I mean it. ;)

[Prudence]

Thanks for the good wishes - and blueerica - both Idaho (I can't believe I'm considering Pocatello) and Utah will be represented in future apps.

[NickO'Time]

Redlands is pretty cool, from what I hear and what I have visited. Redlands Bowl on Thursday nights is fantastic.
I live in Modesto, rated the worst city in the United States. Don't move here, you will regret it.

[sleepyjeff]

.
I live in Modesto, rated the worst city in the United States.


You're just being modest:D

[libraryvixen]

I live in Modesto, rated the worst city in the United States.


Worse than Stockton? I think not! lol I fear shopping in Stockton and I travel to Modesto instead.

[Matterhorn Fan]

I'm hoping the Orlando application is successful, for purely selfish reasons.

[Prudence]

There are a number of Orlando applications online, but I can't activate those until 9/4

[Prudence]

Just finished prepping another batch of applications:

Montgomery, AL
Los Angeles, CA
Santa Ana, CA
Denver, CO (x2)
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Miami, FL
Cedar Rapids, IA
Reno, NV
Alexandria, VA
Charleston, WV

[Kevy Baby]

Just finished prepping another batch of applications:Might I put in a vote for two locations:
Los Angeles, CA
Santa Ana, CA

[Prudence]

Might I put in a vote for two locations:

Then if you should encounter Judges Guilford or Matz (who wrote a really amusing order involving a French phrase), please feel free to discuss the highly qualified candidate from Everett, WA.

[Kevy Baby]

Unfortunately (for you), I make it a point to avoid judges - it never turns out good for me.

[Prudence]

It was a rather productive evening. 20 packets completed. And the cities are:

Phoenix, AZ (x2)
Los Angeles, CA
Pasadena, CA (x2)
San Francisco, CA (x2)
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Jacksonville, FL
Miami, FL (x2)
Albuquerque, NM
Portland, OR
Allentown, PA
Easton, PA
Philadelphia, PA (x3)
Memphis, TN
Nashville, TN

[Snowflake]

It was a rather productive evening. 20 packets completed. And the cities are:

Phoenix, AZ (x2)
Los Angeles, CA
Pasadena, CA (x2)
San Francisco, CA (x2)
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Jacksonville, FL
Miami, FL (x2)
Albuquerque, NM
Portland, OR
Allentown, PA
Easton, PA
Philadelphia, PA (x3)
Memphis, TN
Nashville, TN

fingers crossed for SF (or in a pinch, LA)

[Prudence]

Got another 20 finished today.

Several repeat offenders (Phoenix, LA, SF, Santa Ana)

plus:

San Diego, CA
San Jose, CA
Louisville, KY
Owensboro, KY
Chattanooga, TN
Austin, TX (x2)
Lynchburg, VA
Norfolk, VA (x2)
Richmond, VA (x4)

Now, I'm officially out of reference letters. (Although I'll be requesting at least 8 more on Monday.) Time to start drinking! :cheers:

[Matterhorn Fan]

Out of reference letters? You can't send copies?

[Prudence]

They have to be addressed individually, with signatures across the flaps, so that I won't have committed some kind of reference fraud. :rolleyes: So, I have to send a new spreadsheet of names/addresses to the various secretaries.