Star Wars Legacy revealed

[Ghoulish Delight]

Any catch this on the History Channel last night?

We tried to watch it. I had to turn it off within the first 10 minutes. I hadn't seen anything about it, didn't know about it until TiVo started recording it. What a steaming pile of crap.

There were essentially two things wrong with it.

* It was filled with talking heads that had absolutely nothing to do with Star Wars. Psychiatrists, philosophy professors, sociologists. Not a single primary source, it was nothing but, almost literally, "I once read that George Lucas read a book that mentioned Carl Jung. I know a lot about Carl Jung."

* It might still have been interesting despite that, but they were insisting on equating the prequels with the trilogy. It was total propaganda for the prequels, trying pathetically to show that Anikin's story paralleled Luke's story, therefore all 6 movies are part of some great modern myth.

Maybe it got better after the first 10 minutes, but I didn't have the stomach to sit around and find out.

[Capt Jack]

as I feared. :rolleyes:
the commercials alone seemed to tout is as 'where our new religion began' sort of thing.
I mean....even with its following....it WAS just a movie(s), wasnt it?

glad I decided to pass.

[blueerica]

Well, from what I understood (was reading about mythology and story types a few years ago), George Lucas was influenced by the writings of Joseph Campbell when Star Wars was created. In addition, Campbell's writings about mythic archetypes has influenced a number of directors, writers, etc - in that mythology relates to life challenges, struggles, lessons, etc, not just Lucas. While a movie is a movie, and a book is a book, often we reach to the heroic, the mythic and beyond for inspiration. It wasn't about likening Star Wars to a religion or the beginning of time, but to show how these stories carry through time. Father-son issues, etc.

The History Channel's special on it featured a number of directors - off the top of my head, Kevin Smith was on it, as was Peter Jackson, and a couple of others I just can't think of right now. What I didn't care for was that it was a bit over the top with some of the academics that were featured - they went on and on and on about the same thing, which got a little old. Influencing someone is one thing, but dissecting each and every single moment was just bleh. I liked how they related it to Greek tragedy and classic storytelling models, but it was tiresome.

I turned it off about halfway through. Not because I didn't like it (I like comparisons and connections), not because it was hooey (the Joseph Campbell stuff is true, at least)... but because it was stuff that's been acknowledged for decades and I knew a lot of it already. I watch the History Channel to learn, not re-hash stuff I knew already.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I turned it off about halfway through. Not because I didn't like it (I like comparisons and connections), not because it was hooey (the Joseph Campbell stuff is true, at least)... I'm not saying the stuff was hooey, it was just shaping up to be such a pointless, surface level analysis masquerading as brilliant insight.

[blueerica]

In relating to your first post - I should say, the stuff that bothered me the most was how they related the story lines from the prequels. I think there was an attempt (failed, in my opinion - whether that was bad acting or bad directing, I don't know, nor do I care any longer) to show the parallel story lines, but it just didn't pan out.

The special, in fact, focused more on the prequels than I would have liked. The mythic stuff was really in full-play for the original trilogy. Plus, it was blah blah blah blah - if you someone was really into mythology and classic story telling, they probably knew a lot of it and got bored - if they weren't into that stuff already, then they were probably bored from the start.

[innerSpaceman]

I heard there was also a big segment about the technological possiblities of StarWars-postulated technology ... that bothered to focus large attention on the fact that, with no atmosphere in space, X-Wing fighters could not really maneuver like airplanes.

D'uh.


I'm glad I didn't bother to watch.

[BarTopDancer]

I heard there was also a big segment about the technological possiblities of StarWars-postulated technology ... that bothered to focus large attention on the fact that, with no atmosphere in space, X-Wing fighters could not really maneuver like airplanes.

And unless they discussed it after I left my friends house, they didn't bother to explain how Luke (or anyone) could breathe in space. But I'm focusing on Luke in Empire after Darth comes clean about paternity and he's hanging on for dear life. In space.

[mousepod]

I really think that the whole idea that Lucas was influenced by Joseph Campbell is a case of history rewriting itself. If you look at any of the early Star Wars scripts, the story is very different than the one we eventually saw on the screen. If anything, Georgie cribbed from movies more than anything.

Darn! I meant to rewatch "The Hidden Fortress" over the weekend.

[Capt Jack]

they didn't bother to explain how Luke (or anyone) could breathe in space.

while not what one could call the biggest SW fan on earth, when was this?

[mousepod]

Maybe there was air all around the Cloud City, so that maintenance crews didn't have to carry oxygen.

[Tref]

Be it as it may, here is a preview of the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars

http://starwars.com/video/view/000478.html

[Ponine]

while not what one could call the biggest SW fan on earth, when was this?

I would surmise that she is reffereing to the moment when Luke is clinging for life after/during his fight with Darth Vader.
He is in fact, in space.

[mousepod]

Be it as it may, here is a preview of the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars

http://starwars.com/video/view/000478.html

I'm not scared of the animated series. Actually, Episode 2.5 (the cartoon network series) was my favorite of the second trilogy.

There's a great fanedit that takes all of the short episodes and strings them together (minus opening and closing credits) - it's a satisfying movie.

[Capt Jack]

I would surmise that she is reffereing to the moment when Luke is clinging for life after/during his fight with Darth Vader.
He is in fact, in space.

oh...ok. I thought that was just really high up in the atmosphere.

Be it as it may, here is a preview of the animated series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars

http://starwars.com/video/view/000478.html

with as much CGI as there was in the last few they might as well just go all ani.

this actually didnt look bad

[Amberosia]

It lost me when they started comparing the journey of Anakin/Darth Vader to that of Lucifer/Satan. I mean, as far as films go, there's no question that Star Wars is an epic tale. But to compare it to the Bible?? And by that logic, shouldn't that have meant that there was a Jesus figure as his good counterpart? Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I can't recall anyone dying for the sins of the Rebel Alliance. Maybe an argument could be made for Obi Wan Kenobi, but that's a stretch.

[Chernabog]

So when are they re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re releasing the movies for the 30th anniversary DVD?

(Lucasfilm: "Oh my GAWD we found the Masters from Georgie the Hutt's vaults!!! Now the originals finally are cleaned up, and you lucky people can pay $150 for it all, don't you feel lucky that you have the HONOR of paying for Georgie's next high-carb meal!")

[innerSpaceman]

Nope, they let the 30th come and go with a big yawn.


BUT - Cloud City is on Bespin, which has a breathable atmosphere, even at that altitude. People are shown outdoors on Cloud City all the time. What are you smokin', BarTopDancer?

Similarly, spaceship cockpits can have oxygen in them. They are a sealed environment.

Those are two of the most plausible techno elements in Star Wars. The self-terminating beams of lightsabers, interplanetary and nimble maneuvering capabilities of small fighter craft, and light-speed capabilities of larger craft are far more outlandish.

[CoasterMatt]

BTW iSm - There is an entirely seperate History Channel show called "Star Wars Tech" - that was hundreds of times more interesting than the Legacy revealed snoozefest; they compare Star Wars technology with what's available in our universe, and how some fields are rapidly approaching what's available in Star Wars, and how some others are completely unreal.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The only moment I know of when characters are in outer space and should die is when the Falcon lands inside an asteroid (really, inside a large creature) and decide to go see the inside of the asteroid wearing nothing but an oxygen mask. That's always bugged me as a huge oversight. There is no atmosphere on an asteroid, and without pressurized suits, they would explode.

One could (poorly) argue that there's an atmosphere inside the creature...but the fact that the creature exists in space pushes the whole sequence into complete fantasy territory. Once you've got that, well, why not have X-Wings that act like planes?

[€uroMeinke]

The only moment I know of when characters are in outer space and should die is when the Falcon lands inside an asteroid (really, inside a large creature) and decide to go see the inside of the asteroid wearing nothing but an oxygen mask.

Reminds me of a favorite scene in Flesh Gordan, when Flexy Jerkoff steps out of the ship, takes a deep breath, and declares, "Good, there's oxygen on this planet."

Oh and I love deconstructing myth in contemporary fiction

[Kevy Baby]

There is no atmosphere on an asteroid, and without pressurized suits, they would explode.Actually, wouldn't one implode? I for one would like to see that!

[BarTopDancer]

Nope, they let the 30th come and go with a big yawn.


BUT - Cloud City is on Bespin, which has a breathable atmosphere, even at that altitude. People are shown outdoors on Cloud City all the time. What are you smokin', BarTopDancer?

Nothing - maybe that's the problem ;)

Those are two of the most plausible techno elements in Star Wars. The self-terminating beams of lightsabers, interplanetary and nimble maneuvering capabilities of small fighter craft, and light-speed capabilities of larger craft are far more outlandish.

But I totally bought the lightsabers, small fighter craft capabilities and light-speed! Are you telling me those aren't real?? :(

[Kevy Baby]

But I totally bought the lightsabers, small fighter craft capabilities and light-speed! Are you telling me those aren't real?? :(No. And neither is Santa Claus.

[BarTopDancer]

No. And neither is Santa Claus.

WHAT?! Next you'll be telling me the Easter Bunny isn't real :(

[CoasterMatt]

The Easter Bunny is real, real YUMMY! :evil:

[Gemini Cricket]

It didn't get better after the first ten minutes. It was a weird doco.
I mean, interviewing Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelosi about SW? WTF? Who the hell cares?
They also said weird things that weren't proved in the movie like the Speeder Scouts navigated the forests so well because their helmets enabled them to do so. Huh? They crashed a lot.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Actually, wouldn't one implode? I for one would like to see that!Neither (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html). Though explode is the more plausible guess due to the extreme pressure differential.
(http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html)

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I thought it was an interesting choice to have something on the film and not interview the "principles" of the whole thing. But, for the most part, it was a big Duh! I would almost call it propaganda but since I didn't spell that right - I'll just say crap. I did like hearing about Joseph Campbell. How about a 2 hour program on how he influances SW? Or better yet, just watch the multi-hour PBS interview he did before he died.

[lizziebith]

There was a show on the technology of SW before it which I think iSm was referring to (and missed). It was far superior.

I was contacted by the History Channel to be a part of this special, but was told later that they'd "refocused." I'm glad I wasn't a part of it, because even this die-hard fan tuned out after an hour while they tried to elevate that sad second trilogy to high art. I've heard all the tired Jos Campbell rehash a thousand times. What a waste of time. It was like watching some sad pimply kid's high school essay brought to docu-life. And I'm a True Believer. *shakes head*

[mousepod]

If it be Star Wars documentaries you're after... you should check out the "babyhum" series. The collection represents a fan's attempt to preserve TV specials that would have otherwise disappeared. The releases (so far) are:

bh001: Clapperboard - The Empire Strikes Back Special
bh002: Horizon - How To Film The Impossible
bh003: The Mythology Of Star Wars
bh004: From Star Wars To Star Wars: The Story Of Industrial Light & Magic
bh005: The A-Z Of Star Wars Episode II: Attack Of The Clones
bh006: When Star Wars Ruled The World (DigitalFreakNYC version)
bh007: Star Wars: Heroes & Villains
bh008: Star Wars: Feel The Force
bh009: Star Wars Trilogy: Special Edition Audio/Visual Press Kit
bh010: The Official U.K. Fan Club Behind The Scenes Of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
bh011: Omnibus 'George Lucas - Flying Solo'
bh012: Omnibus 'A Long Time Ago...'
bh013: AFI Lifetime Achievement: A Tribute To George Lucas
bh014: Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace: The U.K. Premiere
bh015: Star Wars Episode II Attack Of The Clones: The U.K. Premiere
bh016: Star Wars Episode III Revenge Of The Sith: The U.K. Premiere

[innerSpaceman]

How the hell are you hooked into all this stuff, mr. mousepod?!?

[eeyore19]

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I can't recall anyone dying for the sins of the Rebel Alliance.

Jar Jar died for somebody's sins, but not mine.... ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

And by that logic, shouldn't that have meant that there was a Jesus figure as his good counterpart? Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I can't recall anyone dying for the sins of the Rebel Alliance. Maybe an argument could be made for Obi Wan Kenobi, but that's a stretch.I think you're confusing inspiration and mimicry. Heck, I think Lucas and the History channel were confusing the two in regards to the prequels. Whether or not you can pinpoint perfectly analogs between Star Wars and the bible, I think there's no doubt that the motivations and message were influenced by it.

The mark of a good epic/mythic tale is that it draws from themes that resonate through our shared folk history and presents them in relevant, interesting, and hopefully unique ways. The mark of a bad epic/mythic tale is that it simply regurgitates old news. The original Star Wars did a lot more of the former than the prequels did. Heck, the construct of this stupid History channel show, showing the parallels between the two trilogies, kinda proves my point that they were entirely derivative, nothing new to offer.

[Gemini Cricket]

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I can't recall anyone dying for the sins of the Rebel Alliance.
In Jedi, Mon Mothma says that many Bothans died to find out information for the Rebel Alliance... does that count?
:D