Lord God Angry Over Taxi Drivers Decision to Return Money

[Tref]

The Lord God Father Almighty was reportedly "miffed" by Taxi Driver Iluminado Boc's decision to return $17,000 left, by His will, in Boc’s taxi. According to celestial witnesses, God, through the intercession of Mama Mary, had granted the prayers of poor Taxi driver Iluminado Boc to pay for the medical expenses for his sick wife.

"It was not mine," Boc was quoted as saying, defying the will of the easily angered & vengeful creatour of the universe.

God, speaking through his angel Gabriel, noted that the money was left in the taxi by the matriarch of wealthy family, who would have, “not missed it at all.” Gabriel was dismissive of the good deed, noting, “The rich do not have a camel’s ass chance of getting through the gates of Heaven. Maybe after 50,000 years spent in Purgatory, but it’s not my call, anyway.”

“He (Boc) has been praying, along with his poor wife, for a windfall of money for ten years. I decided to grant this prayer after Mary (Virgin) interceded on his behalf and pleaded his case to Jesus, who in turn came to me.

For Boc to simply return the graces I gave him is a major affront to me. He will rue that decision. I will make sure of it!”

To read story, click here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6751145,00.html)

Photo of God, click here (http://z.about.com/d/urbanlegends/1/0/-/7/eye_of_god.jpg)

[wendybeth]

God kind of resembles Sauron.

I'm just saying....;)

Oh, and $32 for returning $17,000? I hope God kicks that woman's ass.

[Alex]

Why should he have received even $32 for doing the right thing? I wouldn't have accepted even that (haven't read story).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The story is a paragraph long, Alex.

I say he should have received far more than $32 - out of gratitude. Just saying "thanks" isn't enough when you get money like that back.

[blueerica]

Well, if you're going to give a reward, I would hope it would be comparable to the item being returned. If $32 is the average week for a Filipino taxi driver, then ~$130 is a full months pay, so I suppose it's just the scale that throws us off compared to what we're used to.

I still think the amount offered should have been more. Just because of how much money was returned (it would be, like, $200,000 to us, or something). Then the driver can choose to take the reward or not.

[Capt Jack]

The Lord God Father Almighty was reportedly "miffed"...
quoted for posterity

For Boc to simply return the graces I gave him is a major affront to me. He will rue that decision. I will make sure of it!”



yeah, hes toast


http://members.cox.net/capt_jack/image/angry.gif

[Alex]

I disagree. Giving nothing but thanks is the only appropriate response. And doing the right thing without expectation of reward is the only appropriate behavior. But how much would have been the "correct" amount? Is it proportional to the amount returned? What if he had turned in the bag without opening and therefore didn't know what he was returning. Does this diminish his just reward?

But that was how I was raised. I once asked my mom why I didn't get money for good grades like most of my friends. "Because you're just doing what you're supposed to," was her response.

Also not mentioned is the relationship of the money to the woman (for example, maybe taking the day's receipts for a store to the bank). It may very well not have been hers to be giving it away as thanks.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Alex, I'm sure your boss will appreciate that report card story next review cycle.

I personally wouldn't expect a reward, and would likely refuse one were it offered. But if she felt the need to offer, $32 seems a paltry amount.

[katiesue]

My family was of the you don't get rewarded for what you're expected to do as well.

[Alex]

Again, what is the right amount?

And work is a different thing. I only do the things I do because I am paid. We have negotiated what that is. The reason they give me raises is to keep me from finding someone else willing to pay me more for doing the same thing. Completely different.

He was rewarded a week's pay. That seems like a lot, and as I said the article makes no mention of her relationship to the money. For all we know she was so grateful that she gave every disposable dollar she had. Maybe things are different in the Philippines but at least here you generally aren't walking around with that much cash unless it is committed to something.

But I am curious, if by losing something I am obligated to pay for its return, what is the correct price?

[wendybeth]

Gratitude, perhaps. If you ever lose something of value and do not have it returned, you might be willing to pay for it's return. It's simply returning a kindness with another, but I guess not everyone sees it like that. You don't have to pay a reward, but it generally is nice to offer one. It's no big deal- you either offer one or you don't.

[Alex]

Yes, I agree with that. I don't care if a reward was offered or not. But it appears from the other comments that not only is a reward de rigeur but that there is a certain minimal level of reward.

I'm curious what the rules are? Does the appropriate award amount go up with the dollar amount? Would $17,500 get $5 more than $17,000? Does it matter if the taxi driver knew what he was returning and therefore did or didn't suffer temptation? Does it matter if he is an independently wealthy retiree who hacks because it keeps him busy between visits with the grandchildren? Does it matter if his reasons for turning it in were not altruistic? Say he would have kept it but knew the money would be tracked to his cab and he'd likely be fired and still lose the money? Does it matter what "a lot" is in the local economy? Does the situation of the person who lost the money matter?

Is there a time limit before the need to give a reward kicks in? If he had noticed the money in his basket before leaving the curb and called her back what is the obligation? Before he got to the end of the block and manages to run back to her? 30 minutes later?

I'm honestly curious, this isn't snark. Since it seems people are certain $32 was not enough, what would have been enough and what goes into determining that? Because there are a lot of details that story doesn't give before we decide god should kick her ass.

[wendybeth]

It's certainly subjective, but my idea of a reward would be proportionate to the value of the item I've lost. Do you struggle with the concept of tipping as well? Just curious.

[blueerica]

I think that it's only the scale of how much $32 means in the Phillipines that is shocking. What is paltry to most American's is probably quite a lot to someone else. It's hard to say, really, what the appropriate amount should be.

If the money wasn't hers to begin with, I don't know why she offered her own pocket money at all (perhaps embarrassment). In terms of how much the value of the lost money would be in the U.S., I'd guess it would equate to anywhere between $170K and $200K, so I couldn't even imagine myself in a situation where I'd be responsible for that much cold, hard cash, and if I was, I would would like to think that I would have taken better care of it.

So, um... yeah. I have no idea what the right amount would be.

Better suited question for Americans might be "What would you pay a reward for something that has a street value of $175,000?" take that, and boil it back down. But I still wouldn't know. I don't have anything of that much value.

The whole situation is strange.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hmm, it somehow completely escaped me that this was the Philippines. That certainly alters my perception of the size of the reward. I guess my feeling is that, while I don't believe a reward is by any means mandatory, if you're going to offer a reward it should be an amount that doesn't seem to indicate, "I'm doing this out of obligation, here's some bare minimum." Yes, I realize the utter circular conundrum that presents, but if someone handed me $30 in America for returning something of large value, it would feel to me the equivalent of leaving a $1 tip for a $100 meal. Better to just not offer anything but thanks.

Obviously my reaction is not the same taking into account the economic differences between here and the Philippines.

[Alex]

It's certainly subjective, but my idea of a reward would be proportionate to the value of the item I've lost. Do you struggle with the concept of tipping as well? Just curious.

I think the fact that tipping exists is beyond stupidity (why I'm obligated to cover someone's inability to negotiate a proper wage I simply don't understand). But no, I don't have a problem doing it or how much to tip.

But again, for that situation society has decided that there are somewhat strict rules on what the appropriate tip for certain situations are.

So, what are the rules here? What is properly proportionate? I'm am not really contesting that a reward is reasonable (though I don't think it is for the situation described) just the certainty that $32 was somehow insulting.

A cabbie making a reasonable effort to return something left by a fare in the car, is to me, just as much a part of the expectation of that job as a waiter giving me another fork if I drop mine on the floor.

The one time I did leave something valuable enough in a cab to try and track it down (in Minneapolis) I didn't give the cabbie a "reward" at all (and by the standard implied in this thread I owed him many (tens of?) thousands of dollars since it had a value to my company of almost $1 million). I paid and (generously) tipped him for transporting the item to me just as if I'd been a fare in that cab.

[Alex]

I realize I'm coming off as more severe than I intend. Trying to work on that.

I'm just honestly curious what would be considered the range of a reasonable amount.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I realize I'm coming off as more severe than I intend. Trying to work on that.

I'm just honestly curious what would be considered the range of a reasonable amount.The world isn't black or white, Alex. I'd say this is an incredibly subjective issue. Even if the facts were totally clear, you'll get a different answer for every person you ask. There are no rules. Just a gut feeling, based on your own values, which are based on your own experiences and what you were taught growing up.

Add to that the fact that we know very little about this specific case. Was the money just pocket change for the lady? Was it for some necessary surgery, scrounged out of her mattress? We don't know, and to me, these issues change how I personally feel she should reward the man.

If a neighbor helped you move your coffee table into a flat bed truck, would you give him something to show your gratitude? Would you give him a glass of lemonade, or bake him a pie, or drop a thank you note in his mailbox? Or maybe a handshake would suffice? Perhaps, instead, you'd "owe him one", and when he wants help with moving his daughter to college, you'd do a little extra work for the cause? What are the rules, what is the answer?

Personally, in the specific case of the cabbie - if the money is somewhat disposable, I'd reward the guy at least a grand. Don't ask me any further justification - that's just how I feel.

[Alex]

Of course the world isn't black and white. But a black and white pronouncement on the appropriateness of the $32 was made. 8,000 miles away we're making fun of the woman for giving too little when we know almost nothing about the circumstances.

Why assume the worst?

As for my neighbor it would depend. If I didn't know the person I wouldn't let them help me. If they were a friend I'd say thanks and that would be the end of it, I don't think there's a balance sheet to be balanced at some point. Though, since they're obviously at my home they are welcome to anything in they'd like from the fridge whether they move the coffee table or not.

Personally, giving someone nine months ($1,000) pay for simply doing their job does seem excessive (and, to me, insultingly so).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Personally, giving someone nine months ($1,000) pay for simply doing their job does seem excessive (and, to me, insultingly so).Like I said, it depends. If that's nine months pay, it means he found 12.75 YEARS of pay. If you earn 50 thou a year in our wonderful country (to pick a nice round number) the equivalent is $637,500 dollars. I'll take that down to another nice round number and say that if I returned $500,000 (in somewhat disposable income, as I stipulated earlier) to someone, then yes, I would feel a tiny bit miffed if all I got back was one week's pay (little less than a thousand bucks). I would probably feel fortunate that it was me that found the money, and therefore, got paid something for pure happenstance, and so I'd accept the gift graciously. Still, one percent ain't much in my very subjective opinion.

To me, it doesn't matter what the guy makes, it's about percentage of the amount the owner had thought they'd lost. Again, I'm not going to have a perfect rationale why I feel this way, it's just my gut.

Don't get me wrong - if I find a quarter on the floor at the library I turn it in at the desk for the day, and if no one claims it, it goes in the donation box.

[Alex]

Just a difference then. Because I wouldn't want a reward and would be mildly miffed if one were offered (as if my honesty were sufficiently in doubt that it need be coached out of me). But then I didn't like Halloween when I was a kid because begging the neighbors for food seemed degrading.

[mousepod]

I'm not going to post my opinion, but I would hope that Lashbear reads this thread and shares his "lost and found in Japan" story here.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Just a difference then. Because I wouldn't want a reward and would be mildly miffed if one were offered (as if my honesty were sufficiently in doubt that it need be coached out of me). But then I didn't like Halloween when I was a kid because begging the neighbors for food seemed degrading.And I trick-or-treated well into my 20's.

[wendybeth]

If your ire was raised by my joking about God kicking the woman's ass, then I invite you to re-read the OP and hopefully come to the realization that the comment was a joke on and well within the context of the first post.


And now, I realize I've once again let you draw me into a cranky contest, and I respectfully withdraw.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

As my husband said earlier - he disagrees. If $500,000 seems like a hard figure to wrap one's brain around, I pitched the idea of leaving $500 in a cab - what would the reward be? He said he'd offer nothing. Not even one dollar. I would totally pay the guy - probably, hmm, $25? Again, pulled that out of my ass, but that's probably what I'd pay him.

[Alex]

And now, I realize I've once again let you draw me into a cranky contest, and I respectfully withdraw.

Well, if it is any consolation, you win. I'm not even a little bit cranky.

Obviously it was a joke. I'm sorry if discussing the issue raised by the joke makes you cranky. Just trying to have some conversation out of another of Tref's attempts at his own version of SNL Weekend Update.

And in doing so I was much more interested in CP's first post than in your joke, though that did raise the topic for me.

[cirquelover]

As my husband said earlier - he disagrees. If $500,000 seems like a hard figure to wrap one's brain around, I pitched the idea of leaving $500 in a cab - what would the reward be? He said he'd offer nothing. Not even one dollar. I would totally pay the guy - probably, hmm, $25? Again, pulled that out of my ass, but that's probably what I'd pay him.

OT- I always find it funny when some odd topic comes up and I discuss it with my husband, only to find out we have totally different views! But it is always interesting to find out what others think. That's why I like it here:)

My only experience with finding a fist full of money in a cab was in SF. We went to get in the cab and I saw the money. I grabbed it and yelled at the guy who had just got out and was across the street. I yelled a few times before he noticed and I gave it back to him. He handed me money, I said no thanks. He said I wish I could give you more but please take it. My husband grabbbed it, said thanks and we got in the angry drivers cab. He actually was mad that we had given it back. He was trying to drive away as we got in!

Anywho... he gave us like $3 for a for returning a fist full of cash and I wasn't angry, mad or sad. I was glad he had his money back! I can't imagine getting to the club or whatever and realizing I'd lost everything!! It was nice that he offered but I didn't expect him to. Now if I found a case full of diamonds maybe I'd think differently, you never know;)

[Jazzman]

Appropriate compensation for honesty aside, I'm curious as to how a paragraph in a British newspaper about a cabbie turning in money inspires a snark infused diatribe making God look bad?

Has anyone invented the term Godophobic yet?

:confused:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Appropriate compensation for honesty aside, I'm curious as to how a paragraph in a British newspaper about a cabbie turning in money inspires a snark infused diatribe making God look bad?

Has anyone invented the term Godophobic yet?

:confused:Jazzman - haven't seen you in a bit, hey there :) - Tref is known for his wit. I found the OP funny and not phobic in the slightest, and I believe in God.

[SacTown Chronic]

Humorphobe

[Tref]

Appropriate compensation for honesty aside, I'm curious as to how a paragraph in a British newspaper about a cabbie turning in money inspires a snark infused diatribe making God look bad?

Has anyone invented the term Godophobic yet?


You convince me that the writing is "Godophobic" or that it makes God look bad and I'll turn in my Opus Dei membership.

[Jazzman]

Jazzman - haven't seen you in a bit, hey there :) - Tref is known for his wit. I found the OP funny and not phobic in the slightest, and I believe in God.
That's cool, I'm not trying to be a killjoy. I was just curious. The article had no religious slant at all so I wondered where that angle in the OP came from. No worries, though. Carry on.

:)

[Tref]

"I never explain anything!"
M. Poppins

Amen, Amen, I say to you. Since I have all ready broken my rule of defending my own post, I guess there is no harm in continuing (but that's it!)

My point was only to ponder the nature of what dictates Gods Will in terms of an 'answered prayer', especially when it involves money. One might pray for wealth, but how could God deliver on this prayer if not by taking it away from somebody else? So, here was a man who desperately needed money to provide for his sick wife and lo, it was delivered. But then, as we know, the taxi driver returned the money. Assuming God had actually granted him these graces, then the money was his to use as he pleased. And by declining the money, it can be argued that he also refused the will of God.
It was just another way of looking at his actions. Obviously, I don't even know if he is Catholic, but since he is from the Philippines, I'd say its a safe bet.

I tell you the truth, in his situation, I would have kept the money. I would have also offered a portion of the money (as a tithing) to the Church & clergy, but there is no doubt in my mind what I would have done with the rest. Especially in light of his spouses condition.

[tracilicious]

I found the OP to be full of Trefish hillarity, but I think the explanation Tref posted is really interesting. I think if my spouse were gravely ill and my rent was overdue I'd most likely have kept the money as well.

As for Godophobic - isn't fear of God the fuel that fires religious fervor?

[Jazzman]

That explanation actually does provide some good food for thought. Thank you for breaking your rule Tref, I appreciate it as you've proposed something interesting to ponder.

[Capt Jack]

As for Godophobic - isn't fear of God the fuel that fires religious fervor?

Magneto, X-men 1 Are you a God fearing man, Senator? It's such a strange phrase. I always thought as God as a teacher. As a bringer of light, wisdom and understanding.

a strange phrase indeed

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Tref, please promise to never explain yourself again! <shudder>

[Alex]

One might pray for wealth, but how could God deliver on this prayer if not by taking it away from somebody else?

Took me about five seconds to think of half a dozen ways.

[Tref]

Tref, please promise to never explain yourself again! <shudder>



Never.

[lashbear]

Again, what is the right amount??

Interestingly, the Japanese seem to have a system that works for this.

When we lost a pouch containing about $3000 worth of Yen in Japan, we thought we'd never get it back, but we didn't reckon with the Japanese Honour System.

The pouch was found and handed in at the local police station, where it was itemised, and a reciept issued to the finder.

The police called us and advised that the pouch was found, and gave us contact details for the finder.

We then had to meet face-to-face with the finder, pay a 10% finders fee to him, and he would in return give us the reciept, which we could use to get our pouch back.

Needless to say, the finder didn't want to take the $300.00 reward (which we had put in a beautifully decorated envelope for him) but did let us pay for his coffee.

...and that's how it works. Finder gets met and thanked, and 10% (or more if the owner sees fit) as reward.

[lashbear]

I'm not going to post my opinion, but I would hope that Lashbear reads this thread and shares his "lost and found in Japan" story here.

Honest To God, I read this post AFTER I made the post above !!!!

**Spooky** :cool: