NewHotels,LittleMermaidRide,New "E-Ticket" 4 Tomorrowland,GoldenDreams 2 B Demolished [Archive]

Alex

08-28-2007, 12:40 PM

The only way I can read that sentence to make sense is that it strengthens the presence of San Francisco in the park by creating an attraction that will actually cause people to notice the Palace of Fine Arts building as opposed to it just being the backwater ignored by most people on their way to the bathrooms that it is now.

If there is a San Francisco connection to a Little Mermaid ride itself I don't know what it is.

Isaac

08-28-2007, 12:44 PM

I'm not too keen on the idea of putting The Little Mermaid ride in DCA instead of DL but I know that TDA has been interested in putting Ariel into that park for a long time. A few years ago, there were plans to put a spinning Ursula ride in the Paradise Pier area, and don't forget the rebranding of Avalon Cove to Ariel's Grotto. I think The Little Mermaid ride should go where the Fantasyland theater is located in Disneyland, but if it ends up in DCA I won't be completely dissatisfied. The fact that the ride may FINALLY be built is good enough for me. EuroDisneyland never got the money to build it, Disneyland got ToonTown instead, and HongKongDisneyland cheaped out & only built Winnie The Pooh. It's about time this ride became a reality.

innerSpaceman

08-28-2007, 12:51 PM

Yes, the synergy with a 1989 movie is astounding in its speed and efficiency.

That said, of course, it remains a classic Disney film well beloved by the world. And in fact, a Broadway show (competely panned in yesterday's Variety) is soon to open. I guess, um, better late than never???

As for the theme - - er, San Francisco is a port, and Ariel saved Eric from a shipwreck. Yeah, that's it!!

Isaac

08-28-2007, 12:53 PM

Ariel saved Eric from DCA ?

;)

Isaac

08-28-2007, 12:56 PM

New 'rumor' just popped up (again, it's only rumored, not confirmed):

The Submarine Voyage will be closed in October to add additional scenery/effects/(characters?) and general refurbishment.

Prudence

08-28-2007, 01:05 PM

Oh sure. We finally plan a trip to see the subs and they might be closed.

Bornieo: Fully Loaded

08-28-2007, 01:35 PM

Route 66 area is going away for a new attraction and Beer garden. Cool, but do we need more drunk people in DCA??

LIttle Mermaid attraction does not belong in DCA. It needs to go where the old Motorboat Cruise is or that crappy Princess Fair. It's got no business in DCA - That just sucks. I hope they stick with what was on the DVD because if they go "Pooh" on it, I'll be pretty upset. :)

Muppet's needs to stay because MIckey's Philharmagic BELONGS in ToonTown. WTF? That's lame.

CoasterMatt

08-28-2007, 08:06 PM

I still want a 'Escape from Rehab/Papparazzi Chase' dark ride - we almost had it with Superstar Limo

alphabassettgrrl

08-29-2007, 09:13 AM

Ariel in California? Odd. Generic ocean setting, yes, I could see, but California is kind of specific.

And gods, yes, put something where that stupid Princess faire is! Something else, just about anything else. Such a waste of space.

I realize that a big ride is hard to build, and isn't going to be moved, but really, Indy does belong in Hollywood and Ariel in Fantasy.

Off to read miceage after I finish here with the LoT. :)

Prudence

08-29-2007, 09:16 AM

I am sort of excited about the DCA changes. I'm a sucker for the underdog, I guess. I wonder about the Hollywood area shops, though. Will they still sell generic plush? Because there are so many area-themed things they could offer.

Mary Blairiffic

08-29-2007, 09:30 AM

Really cool things being planned. I'll be curious to see what new things they add to the HM, especially. I wonder if they'll add back the closed-off portion of Alice. I'm okay with the refurb on the DLH, but please don't rip up the waterfalls and the koi pond!!!

alphabassettgrrl

08-29-2007, 09:42 AM

Ok, I'm really excited to see what they do with the Hollywood Backlot. Those changes sound really really great. Actually theming it to California in the twenties and thirties- cool. Yeah.

Rt 66 being removed- on the one hand, yes, it's ugly, make it go away. On the other, route 66 is the Mother Road, the road so many people drove just for the adventure of it, it's really part of the mythology of California.

But I am very pleased to hear they will be putting stuff in the empty spaces, including the row houses! I'm happy to have the space used. It seemed kind of useless, to have this pretty little row of houses, and there's nothing there. Sure it's Disney promoting Disney, but still. There will be something to see, which hopefully will change once in a while as thing get updated.

Snowflake

08-29-2007, 09:52 AM

Well, I hope something good does pan out for Tomorrowland, too. I'd love to see the PeopleMover rehabilitated in some form, but I am sure there needs to be testing on the track and also re-routing due to Buzz and other spots, right?

All the changes do sound exciting for DCA, maybe I should wait and not go to DCA until all the changes are in place and experience it fresh? ;)

Mousey Girl

08-29-2007, 10:58 AM

My only problem with what they are doing in the row houses is that it brings back memories of all the promo hype they did with DCa when it was being planned. We got all excited about it, based on the plans and concept art that we saw. It was just a let down to see that 90% of the ideas had been scrapped.

Chernabog

08-29-2007, 10:59 AM

I still want a 'Escape from Rehab/Papparazzi Chase' dark ride - we almost had it with Superstar Limo

Almost? It was the prophecy of Lindsay Lohan's Dark Crystal. Starring Whoopi as Aughra, Cher as a Skeksis, and Drew Carey as a podling.

innerSpaceman

08-29-2007, 01:00 PM

Ok, I'm really excited to see what they do with the Hollywood Backlot. Those changes sound really really great. Actually theming it to California in the twenties and thirties- cool. Yeah.
Meh, I don't think putting stores inside those same storefronts will make much of a difference to the feel of that area. The fact that they are not planning on making the whole, exceedingly boring and concrete-plaza-era area near Monsters Inc. part of the "real Hollywood" re-theme is exceedingly disappointing. Fixing up the Hyperion Theater is a good idea, but everything else planned for the Hollywood area seems like very little is to change.

My only problem with what they are doing in the row houses is that it brings back memories of all the promo hype they did with DCa when it was being planned. We got all excited about it, based on the plans and concept art that we saw. It was just a let down to see that 90% of the ideas had been scrapped.
Well, to be fair, the one inside Disneyland way-back-when was almost always full of "Coming Soon" models and materials for attractions and areas that never materialized.

If that's what the new one ends up as, it will be continuing a grand tradition!

RStar

08-29-2007, 03:32 PM

I remember the corner of those row of houses being used twicw- once for an arcade durring the X-games, and once at Christmas durring Illiminaria for the Christmas cards made by kids durring the show.

Kevy Baby

08-29-2007, 10:53 PM

When I think of Route 66 (the road), I do not think of California (yes, I know it runs through and terminates there). I think of it more as a "Discovering America" kind of ideology.

RStar

08-30-2007, 07:01 AM

That's true, most of Rout 66 wasn't even in California.

I think this plan of "Walt Disney's" California Adventure could work out to be the best thing that has ever happened to the parking lot since they first ripped it up. They're pumping a lot of money into it, and trying to add magic to the mix this time. Focusing on Walt could bring people to Anahiem to see just that park! Imagine that!

But where will the APs hang after they take out our lounge?? Kinda sucks for us APs when both parks will be packed to the gills. But that's what it takes to get change. And if this works, we could see the third gate open some time.

But all this success has ruined one thing for me......

The off season. There doesn't seem to be one any more. To go and stroll around the park with very little traffic, to walk on any ride in 10 minutes or less. Those days seem to be gone. I haven't really seen them since Indy opened.

innerSpaceman

08-30-2007, 07:16 AM

Is Walt Disney going to be a character roaming the new park?

If not, I don't see where the Walt aspect comes in. "California as Walt would have seen it" is kinda vague. Even if they throw in a replica of the old Hyperion Studio Bldg., I don't think that makes the lame California thing any more that 0.000002 Walt. And I don't think anyone will fall for it.

Cosmetic improvements are not going to "fix" DCA. And, as we've already seen, big attractions are not going to fix it either. The entire concept is flawed at the core.

Yes, prettier would be better. Yes, better rides would be better. A better DCA will still be DCA.

Don't throw away your AP Lounge membership just yet.

Gn2Dlnd

08-30-2007, 08:00 AM

What fixes DCA then? Complete bulldozing? I'm serious, how do you take what's there and create a compelling Disney theme park experience? I know how I'd do it, looks like John Lasseter and the gang are going in a different direction. How would you do it?

I'm on my way to Century City to sell the cheez today, when I get home I'll post what I've always thought would be an easy and elegant fix. Not that they're coming anywhere near using my version of a good idea, but I'll post it anyway.

LoTters, what's your good idea?

Kevy Baby

08-30-2007, 09:34 AM

But where will the APs hang after they take out our lounge??Same place we always have: the Grand Cal

RStar

08-30-2007, 09:52 AM

Same place we always have: the Grand CalOh, ya. That's right!

Is Walt Disney going to be a character roaming the new park? That's an idea I was just discussing this morning. I hear the Disney family won't allow an AA Walt, but how would the public react to a ride about Walt with him as an AA in it I wonder?

If not, I don't see where the Walt aspect comes in. "California as Walt would have seen it" is kinda vague. Even if they throw in a replica of the old Hyperion Studio Bldg., I don't think that makes the lame California thing any more that 0.000002 Walt. And I don't think anyone will fall for it.I'm not so sure. There are a lot of fans of Walt out there, and that just may be the connection needed to make the California theme relitive to a Disney theme park.

But Walt or no Walt, the biggest complaint of the park (other than lack of E-Ticket rides) is the lack of "Magic". The magic is in part being transported to another time or place. As DCA stands it neither. Bringing it into another time should at least help that. Combine that with more rides and a better looking park, and it just may work. A complete fix that will skyrocket it's popularity past that of Disneyland? Of course not. I guess what our expectations are is what sets our level of success in the remake of this park. Right now I liken it to the same level as DtD or The Block of Orange. If it can reach the level of Knott's I'd be happy ;) .

innerSpaceman

08-30-2007, 10:02 AM

I don't think even another time period in California is enough of a transport to a different time or place. Sure, California 50 years ago is better than just plain California - - for a park located IN CALIFORNIA.

But I think an entirely different theme is the necessary starting point. The tourist mix is never going to be optimal for a California park in California, and I don't even think that kind of thing works for tourists anyway. If I go to France, a theme park about France is not going to substitute for me seeing France.

The idea, I'm sure, was for the park to substitute for visiting the rest of California ... and that is simply insulting on top of being absofreakinglutely boring.

At this point, if I were to bulldoze DCA and not put up a parking lot, I'd have to stick with Disney tried and true ... and either go with Disney Seas or a concept worked-on forever, like Disney's America. Personally, if going for the proven rather than the gamble, I'd flood most of DCA, and build World Showcase West.

FYI, neither World Showcase nor Disney Seas are long on attractions. They are little more than stunningly beautiful environments ... and I think California Adventure would come a long way if it weren't just so damn ugly.

Having a nonsensical layout doesn't help either. Heheh, WorldShowcasicizing it would solve that right quick.

RStar

08-30-2007, 10:48 AM

I agree there. California theme in CA in just plain dumb. If they theme it to JUST Walt then perhaps it would have a chance. So this could inlude his time in MO on the farm (Bountiful Farms area), but anything else before that would be boring. Would you follow the exploits of a young Walt delivering newspapers in Kansas as a dark ride? Or in France durring the war? The rest that is interesting about Walt happened in CA. But that's not to say CA has to be pushed. Walt could be the main attraction. Heck, if Dolly Pardon can do it, why not Walt? Waltworld anyone??

But, as we all know, they will not start all over with a new theme park. They won't claim failure. I agree with you that it won't completely fix the problem 100%, but if it takes it from 30% to 80%, that worth doing. Plus, I'm hopeing Disney Seas becomes the third gate! ;)

Alex

08-30-2007, 12:35 PM

I can't say it is entirely accurate but my experience talking to the casual Disney consumer is that for the most part while the idea of Walt Disney is nice they really don't give a rats fart about him as an actual person. Heck, for most he is simply a mildly-interesting modern myth.

So while I can see an attraction or exhibit doing somewhat well, the man himself doesn't strike me as a strong idea for centering an entire park. That's not to say there isn't a very large body of people who do care intensely about the man himself, just not - in my view - enough to support a park.

I also wonder if a park about America in America is any less odd than a park about California in California.

SacTown Chronic

08-30-2007, 12:38 PM

I hear the Disney family won't allow an AA Walt, but how would the public react to a ride about Walt with him as an AA in it I wonder?Or how about a statue that, when viewed at a certain angle, gives the impression that Walt Disney had a giant crank?

innerSpaceman

08-30-2007, 02:51 PM

Well, I just had a preview of Gn2Dlnd's proposals for DCA as I ran across him slinging cheese in Century City ... and I think you'll like them. ;)

* * * *

As for a park about America in America, I'll grant it would do better in an area (such as originally proposed) where tourists - especially American tourists - flock to grok some American History.

California is hardly best for that .... but I think that park deserves to be built, and we've got a turkey park that needs a complete re-do (imo).

Isaac

08-30-2007, 05:20 PM

Is Walt Disney going to be a character roaming the new park?
Sorta. Bunson & Beeker will be wheeling a cart with his frozen head under glass.

:D

Yeah, I agree that the Walt's aspect idea is too vague & not gonna help.

Adding "Walt" to "Disney's California Adventure" is like adding milk to a cup of mud.
It may taste better but it's still pretty awful.

What fixes DCA then? Complete bulldozing? I'm serious, how do you take what's there and create a compelling Disney theme park experience?
You can't.
That's why DCA won't succeed unless it were to change into a completely different theme park.

Alex

08-30-2007, 05:23 PM

What is the threshold for "success" in our eyes? Does it have to be good enough that when we hit the esplanade we are equally torn as to which park we should go to or is there some lower bar that could be met where we'd say "it's good enough"?

innerSpaceman

08-30-2007, 05:59 PM

For me, yes, I have to be torn. Not equally torn. (And, ya know, not torn at all ... since I can go back and forth between them faster than I can go from one end of Disneyland to the other).

I have to be excited about the prospect of going to either park. It has to be a place I enjoy being in. I don't have to enjoy it as much as Disneyland, necessarily. But neither can it be a dog when compared to the Park footsteps away.

Gn2Dlnd

08-31-2007, 08:38 AM

For a very long time I've thought that DCA could be fixed by splitting it into two separate parks. One, to the East, being a full-blown Hollywood themed park. Expand out into the Esplanade and the Timon lot, and connect to the strawberry fields with your glamourtram tour. Or, better yet, a Glamorail! Use the Hyperion as a legit concert venue, and finish the Studio Park Lite as a full-fledged Disney Studio blow-out.

The other side of the park is my favorite. A True-Life Adventure themed park. You keep the Pacific Northwest, high desert, and farm areas (with, of course, enhancements) and Paradise Pier is either scrapped and turned completely into the ocean themed section of the park, or you fit your ocean themed exhibits into a bustling, turn-of-the-century seaside amusement park. I miss the educational elements that used to permeate so much of Disneyland, wouldn't it be nice to bring that back in a park with that as its focus?

I started thinking about this when I bought my 50th anniversary CD set. Listening to the Rainbow Caverns mine train reminded me how much I loved that attraction, and how much of a sister attraction it was to the Jungle Cruise. A recent Al update indicated that a similar attraction may be added to the Grizzly River Rapids area of DCA, I hope it's true.

After today's cheez-fest (333 S. Hope, downtown L.A.), I'll tell you how animatronic Walt fits into Tomorrowland. Again, an idea that's been rattling around in my head for years.

Gn2Dlnd

09-01-2007, 02:07 PM

Did I kill the thread?

CoasterMatt

09-01-2007, 02:25 PM

The Commodore doesn't kill threads, he swanks them into Cheesetopia...

(I type this as I'm devouring a delicious grilled cheese and apple slice sammich)

RStar

09-01-2007, 04:37 PM

What is the threshold for "success" in our eyes?
That we like it better? That's a good question! I don't know, I suppose I'd have to say when they get the numbers in the gate that they first expected.

Adding "Walt" to "Disney's California Adventure" is like adding milk to a cup of mud.
It may taste better but it's still pretty awful. Sure, if that's all they planned to do. But they plan to rework the look and add rides as well. So now you can take the mud, add milk, and add honey as well! Yum!

For a very long time I've thought that DCA could be fixed by splitting it into two separate parks. One, to the East, being a full-blown Hollywood themed park. Expand out into the Esplanade and the Timon lot, and connect to the strawberry fields with your glamourtram tour. Or, better yet, a Glamorail! Use the Hyperion as a legit concert venue, and finish the Studio Park Lite as a full-fledged Disney Studio blow-out.

The other side of the park is my favorite. A True-Life Adventure themed park. You keep the Pacific Northwest, high desert, and farm areas (with, of course, enhancements) and Paradise Pier is either scrapped and turned completely into the ocean themed section of the park, or you fit your ocean themed exhibits into a bustling, turn-of-the-century seaside amusement park. I miss the educational elements that used to permeate so much of Disneyland, wouldn't it be nice to bring that back in a park with that as its focus? Tha's actually a very interesting idea, and a natural flow of the already laid areas. But would the land of the Timon lot be enough for that park to be worth a gate of it's own? I suppose if they get rid of the Lion King tram service and put the drop off in the little temporary parking lot off Harbour, it may work. But connecting to the land on the other side of Harbour is going to be a feat in itself....

Did I kill the thread? Almost, but we saved it in the nick of time!

(I type this as I'm devouring a delicious grilled cheese and apple slice sammich)Wow, that sounds great! A nice Bre would go great on that!

RStar

09-01-2007, 04:42 PM

What is the threshold for "success" in our eyes?
That we like it better? That's a good question! I don't know, I suppose I'd have to say when they get the numbers in the gate that they first expected.

Adding "Walt" to "Disney's California Adventure" is like adding milk to a cup of mud.
It may taste better but it's still pretty awful. Sure, if that's all they planned to do. But they plan to rework the look and add rides as well. So now you can take the mud, add milk, and add honey as well! Yum!

For a very long time I've thought that DCA could be fixed by splitting it into two separate parks. One, to the East, being a full-blown Hollywood themed park. Expand out into the Esplanade and the Timon lot, and connect to the strawberry fields with your glamourtram tour. Or, better yet, a Glamorail! Use the Hyperion as a legit concert venue, and finish the Studio Park Lite as a full-fledged Disney Studio blow-out.

The other side of the park is my favorite. A True-Life Adventure themed park. You keep the Pacific Northwest, high desert, and farm areas (with, of course, enhancements) and Paradise Pier is either scrapped and turned completely into the ocean themed section of the park, or you fit your ocean themed exhibits into a bustling, turn-of-the-century seaside amusement park. I miss the educational elements that used to permeate so much of Disneyland, wouldn't it be nice to bring that back in a park with that as its focus? That's actually a very interesting idea, and a natural flow of the already laid areas. But would the land of the Timon lot be enough for that park to be worth a gate of it's own? I suppose if they get rid of the Lion King tram service and put the drop off in the little temporary parking lot off Harbour, it may work. But connecting to the land on the other side of Harbour is going to be a feat in itself....

Did I kill the thread? Almost, but we saved it in the nick of time!

(I type this as I'm devouring a delicious grilled cheese and apple slice sammich)Wow, that sounds great! A nice Bre would go great on that!

RStar

09-02-2007, 11:33 AM

Did I kill the thread?

Ok, so now I killed this thread! :D

innerSpaceman

09-02-2007, 09:33 PM

Eh, not really. Weekend killed the thread. Heheh, whilst no one was posting in this thread, a whole lot of us swankers were at Disneyland, of all places, giving a Frenchman the air-conditioned bar tour of the resort.

Relax, it's a 3-day. LoT will be dead on such long weekends, even deader than on regular ones.

We'll return to saving DCA after Labor day.

And it will be quite a labor to save DCA.