*sigh* teenagers

[Nephythys]

...as in two of them "gettin' some" upstairs.

:eek:

Davis and his girlfriend may have the radio on- but they are louder than they think. The other day he flashed his back and she had clawed the hell out of him.....

Now today- heavy breathing, moaning and bed springs-right over the kitchen where we are making dinner.

Oh my God help me......:eek:

How do I cope with this? I mean- I am not going to go mental on his relationship or his sex life (ewwwww) but damn.....luckily the other kids are all out of the house. R and I are getting a huge laugh out of it- but I still feel a tad icky.

ahhhhhhh- *shudder*

[Kevy Baby]

Honestly? Just have a simple matter-of-fact conversation with him about "appropriateness". Once the sex has started, it ain't gonna stop, but I believe you can have an adult conversation with him that it isn't appropriate to be doin' it within earshot of others.

[Nephythys]

Honestly? Just have a simple matter-of-fact conversation with him about "appropriateness". Once the sex has started, it ain't gonna stop, but I believe you can have an adult conversation with him that it isn't appropriate to be doin' it within earshot of others.


Good advice.

*sigh*

[Capt Jack]

or record it and play it back for the two of them. the mortification should be more than enough to at least make them more descrete

[tracilicious]

I'd just turn a radio on downstairs too. Or maybe a casual, "Hey could you two keep it down up there," if it's really bugging you. I think it's a sign that he feels really comfortable in his own home (not too common for teenagers) to be doing it while you're there. I wouldn't want to make him so uncomfortable that he feels he needs to hide his sexuality. It's totally normal.

[Not Afraid]

You know, I'm just glad I don't have kids. I wouldn't know how to handle this at all.

[€uroMeinke]

You know, I'm just glad I don't have kids. I wouldn't know how to handle this at all.

"This is a condom..."

[Not Afraid]

Oh. Yeah. I did that to the nieces, didn't I?

[RStar]

Yeah, I had the same problem with my son. As much as I laid down the ground rules he would still break them. Sex, drugs, booze, it all went on under my nose. As he got older it seemed he didn't even try to hide it. I tried to deal with it cause I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable at home. When he started selling it out of my house I finally had to kick him out. He was 18 at the time, and he's living out of motels.

Good luck. But please remember, you can raise kids right all you want. They decide what to do with it, and if it turns out wrong you did your best.

[Alex]

How old is he?

[Isaac]

I'd go upstairs and say " Oooh Davis! Go bake yourself a cake cause you're turning up the heat! "

....but that's just me :)

[BarTopDancer]

Personally, while the sex isn't going to stop, it's up to you if you will allow/encourage it in your house to begin with. Why is he allowed in his bedroom with a girl with the door closed? Teens will be teens. They still need guidance and they will sneak around do to what they will - but do you really want to encourage him?

Leave a box of condoms on his bed. That way he knows you know and he has no excuse to not use protection.

[wendybeth]

Yikes! This is a tough one. Without knowing how old he is, I am operating on the assumption that he's of legal age. As such, he has the right to engage in such activities, but he also has the obligation to abide by your house rules so long as he lives there. If he is discreet it might not be a problem, but it sounds like they are.....well....not being so discreet, and that makes others uncomfortable. If they don't realize how loud they are being, chances are they'll be mortified, but if they do and they don't care, then it's your house and your rules- break out the tape recorder!

[Nephythys]

How old is he?

17

I'd go upstairs and say " Oooh Davis! Go bake yourself a cake cause you're turning up the heat! "

....but that's just me :)

heh- I need a laugh after all this- thanks :)

Personally, while the sex isn't going to stop, it's up to you if you will allow/encourage it in your house to begin with. Why is he allowed in his bedroom with a girl with the door closed? Teens will be teens. They still need guidance and they will sneak around do to what they will - but do you really want to encourage him?

Leave a box of condoms on his bed. That way he knows you know and he has no excuse to not use protection.

I don't see how I am encouraging him by not going up and causing a fight. I chose to approach it quietly after she was gone. He was mortified- and said it would NOT happen again. If it does- I step up my level of intervention.

We did discuss condoms and birth control- he knows I know. He knows we heard. He knows I am unhappy and he knows one of my biggest issues is the message it sends his sister and brothers. Thankfully they were out of the house and did not know-

Yikes! This is a tough one. Without knowing how old he is, I am operating on the assumption that he's of legal age. As such, he has the right to engage in such activities, but he also has the obligation to abide by your house rules so long as he lives there. If he is discreet it might not be a problem, but it sounds like they are.....well....not being so discreet, and that makes others uncomfortable. If they don't realize how loud they are being, chances are they'll be mortified, but if they do and they don't care, then it's your house and your rules- break out the tape recorder!

He is 17- in CO both of them are legal. Even when he turns 18 they are still age of consent (oh yeah, I checked)

When I told him flat out that we had to talk about his noisy sex he tried to play dumb- when I told him we had heard most of it he was totally embarrassed.

I guess at this point if it happens again when I or R or the other kids are in the house- I will intervene in a more abrasive manner. For now keeping peace while letting him know it was NOT ok was the best start.

I got almost no sleep- my brain is going a million miles an hour.

[Nephythys]

Yeah, I had the same problem with my son. As much as I laid down the ground rules he would still break them. Sex, drugs, booze, it all went on under my nose. As he got older it seemed he didn't even try to hide it. I tried to deal with it cause I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable at home. When he started selling it out of my house I finally had to kick him out. He was 18 at the time, and he's living out of motels.

Good luck. But please remember, you can raise kids right all you want. They decide what to do with it, and if it turns out wrong you did your best.

Luckily no drugs or alcohol- parole will likely keep it that way and then I will after that. (as best I can)

I know he is going to make his choices- and I know I had to let him know I know. I am not going to allow him to think I am oblivious to it- that's for certain.

[3894]

Not telling anyone how to handle their own kids, just what we do. Our daughters are 15 and 17.

These be the rules for how they behave in our house, no exceptions:
1. No boys in bedrooms, doors open or closed. You invite a boy over, you entertain him in the "public" spaces of our house where someone could walk in on you at any time - living room, family room, kitchen, garden.
2. No boys in the house if mom or dad isn't home.

[Nephythys]

I am having an internal battle with myself- would I do this differently if it was Rose?

I think I have to say yes- and then examine why.

If it had been Rose I bet I would have walked in on them- but did not when it is my son. I know my main motivation was not to cause a scene and be able to discuss it without a fight- but I also suspect that our volatile history has alot to do with it. I do not want conflict- but I also do not want him to walk all over me.

*sigh* my head hurts-

I am trying to go into this as calmly as I can. In the old days I would have stormed in guns blazing- which was never to my benefit and did not encourage him to cooperate. I suspect we have to have another talk-and establish a few more guidelines of respect in the house.

* His door stays open and or unlocked when she comes over and the family (any of us) are in the house. His privacy is subject to being invaded at any time- and should it be otherwise or he violates his word that it won't happen again then he can count on people barging in.

*Should this continue in a manner that disrupts the household then she either can not come over (which I do not want to do) or I take other action- like removing his door completely, or talking to her parents.

I was in shock- and stunned yesterday. I am trying to handle it calmly for all our benefit.

I also have to question how I would have handled it if it had been Rose- and if I am being honest I would say I would have done it differently.

Davis is a test subject being the oldest- even now I am still learning.

*sigh*

[3894]

Davis is a test subject being the oldest- even now I am still learning.


Listen, we're all learning all the time. You are setting the limits you're comfortable with in your home.

People do tell me that kids do appreciate all we do, once they're in their 20s. It does get better ... or so they say.

Hang in there, Nephythys.

[~MS~]

I think that the first born is almost always a test run....and we make the most "mistakes" with them .... having said that it sounds like you're going at this in a manner that is most comfortable for you and only you know Davis well enough to know which approach is going to be effective. I agree that you won't stop the sex but you can at least set the guidelines for what you will accept/allow to happen in your home.

[Nephythys]

...and that is the conclusion I finally came to after many *headdesk* moments and a little sleep-

[Snowflake]

Hang in there Nephy, you're doing the best you can. At least you are making yourself plain in your displeasure.

I'm just so glad I'm not in your shoes, I would not be doing so hot, I'm sure!

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Oh. Yeah. I did that to the nieces, didn't I?

Please keep practicing. I may need your help in about 12 years.

Nephy, I don't have any wise sage advice, other than to do your best.

[cirquelover]

I'm not looking forward to your situation, but I think you are handling it in a good manner for you and your family. I don't envy you in the slightest! As long as you're setting boundaries and he is following them, it's the best you can do.
Most people wouldn't be honest enough to say they would do it different if it were their daughter. Except my husband, which is why we stopped after one boy. He would have locked a girl in the closet at puberty and not let her out until she was 40!!!

[katiesue]

My parents had the same rules as in Helen's house. No boys in your room, ever. Even when we were older no sleeping in the same room unless you're married - doesn't matter if you live together no wedding seperate rooms.

Nephy what if you think of it like this - what if it were Rose at her boyfriends house in the same situation? What would you want his parents to do?

[Morrigoon]

I think you showed Davis a great deal of respect by not barging in on him. I think you would be wise to point that out to him - you were discreet because you respect the fact that he is of legal age, however, he also needs to respect you enough to be discreet.

And warn him (gently and respectfully) that if they do it with you in the house again, you WILL interrupt them and it will be terribly embarrassing for both of them.

[sleepyjeff]

I think you showed Davis a great deal of respect by not barging in on him. I think you would be wise to point that out to him - you were discreet because you respect the fact that he is of legal age, however, he also needs to respect you enough to be discreet.

And warn him (gently and respectfully) that if they do it with you in the house again, you WILL interrupt them and it will be terribly embarrassing for both of them.

Yep. I like this advice.

[BarTopDancer]

Next time, open the door and go "can I join in?" :evil:

Probably would get rid of the gf too.

[Nephythys]

Bwa hahahahahaha! :) Day-um BTD- good one

I like that advice too Goonie-

Katiesue- I honestly have NO idea what I would do or think in that situation. I can admit I would have reacted differently if it had been Rose yesterday- but then I consider that his GF is someone's daughter too- so what would I do?

I don't know.

[BarTopDancer]

They are probably doing this at your house because her parents make it to hard to do at hers. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should. And doesn't mean that any set of parents needs to make it easy for them. If they want to, they should do what the rest of us did. Sneak around in cars and places where it's not all that comfortable ;) Or wait till parents aren't home. Nothing breaks the mood faster than seeing the headlights of the parental car in the driveway.

[katiesue]

Right, what BTD said. Yes they will find a way but you don't have to make it easy for them.

And just FYI - dry creek beds are not the best idea - just sayin' (I think I still have bruises).

[BarTopDancer]

Sand is not a lubricant.

[Nephythys]

Ok- here is my "plan"- thus far....

First a conversation with him to discuss:
-Risks
*pregnancy
*STD's
*Risks to her
-If he cares about her, as he says he does, he would not put her health and future at
risk by continuing with this behavior.

-Rules in the house
*Open/unlocked door policy- subject to surprise visits at any time
*Violations will lead to more restrictions
*There will be NO sex in my house
-If he wants to continue this he can move out at 18 and get on with his adult life

I am gathering information- her full name, hopefully some into on her parents (they live near mine)- and if the discussion with him yields poor results I will talk to her as well-then escalate to parents.

I am unprepared to go running to her parents immediately- but it is an option as well. One I need to prepare myself to take.

Something occurred to me that I missed last night when I was upset-I was taking my daughter to her grandparents to spend the night- and his GF lives near them but she would not allow me to take her home and they acted suspicious about it all. I suspect they did not want me to take her home because her parents may either not know where she is, or may not approve of my son for some reason- maybe this one- I don't know.

[Morrigoon]

Ahh... now there's an interesting point

[BarTopDancer]

Sounds like a great plan Nyphy!

One of the best things (now) that a boyfriends parents ever did was speak to my parents before I was allowed in the house. Even though they had a "stay in the public areas rule" they still wanted to know that my parents knew where I was. Either they spoke before I came over or if I came over after school they would call my mom at work.

[Strangler Lewis]

Personally, I plan on a huge double standard between my son and daughter.

I think.

As to your son--and here's the lawyer talking--the most important thing you can do is find out how old the girl is. There are some jawdropping statutory rape laws on the books in this country, some of which mandate trial as an adult and lengthy prison sentences.

[Nephythys]

Personally, I plan on a huge double standard between my son and daughter.

I think.

As to your son--and here's the lawyer talking--the most important thing you can do is find out how old the girl is. There are some jawdropping statutory rape laws on the books in this country, some of which mandate trial as an adult and lengthy prison sentences.

Colorado

The unfettered age of consent in Colorado is 17, however there exist in the legislation close in age exceptions which allow those at least 15 and less than 17 to engage in acts with those less than ten years older.
18-3-402(1) Any actor who knowingly inflicts sexual intrusion or sexual penetration on a victim commits sexual assault if: (d) At the time of the commission of the act, the victim is less than fifteen years of age and the actor is at least four years older than the victim and is not the spouse of the victim; or (e) At the time of the commission of the act, the victim is at least fifteen years of age but less than seventeen years of age and the actor is at least ten years older than the victim and is not the spouse of the victim

right now she is 16, he is 17-legal. She will turn 17 the same month he turns 18- still legal

My dad is a lawyer- I get the lawyer thing :)

[RStar]

* His door stays open and or unlocked when she comes over and the family (any of us) are in the house. His privacy is subject to being invaded at any time- and should it be otherwise or he violates his word that it won't happen again then he can count on people barging in.

*Should this continue in a manner that disrupts the household then she either can not come over (which I do not want to do) or I take other action- like removing his door completely, or talking to her parents.This is a great start. I would further define the beedroom door policy. "Open" only if I we you. I think not going completely bullistic, going to her parents and all helps gain his trust. If you trust him, give him the shot with these rules. Write them down, and have him sign it as well. This solidifies the rules. The thing is, you can't be there 24/7 and teens will do what they want when no one is around to watch them. If they know the rules, they can't argue with the punishment when they get caught, and they now where the boundries are.

Then just go on with your life......

Ok- here is my "plan"- thus far....

First a conversation with him to discuss:
-Risks
*pregnancy
*STD's
*Risks to her
-If he cares about her, as he says he does, he would not put her health and future at
risk by continuing with this behavior.

-Rules in the house
*Open/unlocked door policy- subject to surprise visits at any time
*Violations will lead to more restrictions
*There will be NO sex in my house
-If he wants to continue this he can move out at 18 and get on with his adult life
I'm sure she was suppose to be somewhere else with someone else.

These rules are great. But I think I would go one step further. I didn't know for years that my son was doing drugs/alcohol/ciggarets. It might be a good idea (if you do write them down) to add all rules like the drugs, alcohol, and curfue if any, chores, school work, general behavior, etc.

Tell him you love him, but you were dissapointed in his behavior. He knows it was wrong because it said he'd never do it again. My guess is that is was not the first time, and it won't be the last. At least if you let him know the rules, you've done your job and anything that happends is his fault.

[Nephythys]

He's on parole- all those other issues are covered and duplicated already

[Kevy Baby]

I don't see how I am encouraging him by not going up and causing a fight. I chose to approach it quietly after she was gone. He was mortified- and said it would NOT happen again. If it does- I step up my level of intervention.Actually, in reading this whole thread, I believe you have reacted beautifully! It is a very difficult situation for you. I think most of us know the history you've had with D and in reading how you have handled this, I can honestly say that I see TREMENDOUS growth in you from just a couple of years ago. Kudos to you!!!

[BarTopDancer]

Only on LoT can a group of non parents dispense advice about a situation involving kids to a parent and not be ridiculed/talked down to because they don't have kids.

Cool.

And people say LoT is snobby/pretentious. :rolleyes:

[blueerica]

So, I'm having my own teenaged crisis at the moment. I currently have two teenagers in my possession, and plans I have paid for tonight. Yikes!

The issues have too many specifics to get into, but... **SIGH**

Can I *headdesk* now?

[BarTopDancer]

If they want to move furniture, boxes and clean I'll take em ;)

[blueerica]

Oh that's right. I think you can have them this weekend...

[BarTopDancer]

That was last weekend... I just meant tonight.

This weekend I will be doing things that they are not yet old enough to partake in.

[Kevy Baby]

We're lucky: when the Rent-A-Child visited with us over the summer, she paid her rent by cleaning. It was wonderful!

[Tref]

One word: saltpeter.

[Nephythys]

Actually, in reading this whole thread, I believe you have reacted beautifully! It is a very difficult situation for you. I think most of us know the history you've had with D and in reading how you have handled this, I can honestly say that I see TREMENDOUS growth in you from just a couple of years ago. Kudos to you!!!

Thanks-my efforts at talking to him today did not go well (more on that later when I am not emotionally fried)- but in the old days I would have persisted it right into a fight. Today I let him go after saying some of my mind- and I stepped back to cool off because I am really upset right now.

I'm trying-is it November yet? I need some Disneyland-

Only on LoT can a group of non parents dispense advice about a situation involving kids to a parent and not be ridiculed/talked down to because they don't have kids.

Cool.

And people say LoT is snobby/pretentious. :rolleyes:

Sometimes being a small close community is a good thing (ok, I think it IS a great thing) and I am glad to be a part of it. Really- thanks- everyone!

I need a nap :(

[Mousey Girl]

Only on LoT can a group of non parents dispense advice about a situation involving kids to a parent and not be ridiculed/talked down to because they don't have kids.

Cool.

And people say LoT is snobby/pretentious. :rolleyes:


You've never been married/divorced either, but you have helped me a great deal. :)

[tracilicious]

Honestly? I think you might be overreacting. Sexuality is a very normal part of being human. Even though legally he is still a minor, he already has adult sexual urges. I think by forbidding it you might add an element of shame that our culture could really do without.

I understand that you might like him to be more discreet. Though, in that situation I think I would want to do some soul searching as to what was making me uncomfortable. My kids coming into their own (no pun intended)? Shame my parents downloaded onto me? Concerns for safety/risk? Is it that he isn't married/my own views of how sex "should" be?

How would you feel about him having sex in your house if he were 20 and visiting home with his girlfriend? Why is it different because he is two years younger and living at home?

I think that Kevy was right in saying once sex has started it isn't going to stop. Taking an authoritarian stance and forbidding it is only going to promote sneaking around. I think I would want honest communication. Let him know that he isn't wrong, the desire for sex at his age is completely normal, and have an open talk about the risks and how best to avoid them.

[Nephythys]

Honestly? I think you might be overreacting. Sexuality is a very normal part of being human. Even though legally he is still a minor, he already has adult sexual urges. I think by forbidding it you might add an element of shame that our culture could really do without.

I understand that you might like him to be more discreet. Though, in that situation I think I would want to do some soul searching as to what was making me uncomfortable. My kids coming into their own (no pun intended)? Shame my parents downloaded onto me? Concerns for safety/risk? Is it that he isn't married/my own views of how sex "should" be?

How would you feel about him having sex in your house if he were 20 and visiting home with his girlfriend? Why is it different because he is two years younger and living at home?

I think that Kevy was right in saying once sex has started it isn't going to stop. Taking an authoritarian stance and forbidding it is only going to promote sneaking around. I think I would want honest communication. Let him know that he isn't wrong, the desire for sex at his age is completely normal, and have an open talk about the risks and how best to avoid them.

I have not forbidden sex- but I can certainly forbid it in my house if I am not comfortable with it- especially with the younger kids. In fact I said explicitly that I do not want lies and sneaking around- but again- it's my home and if I want him to be more discreet and certainly not do such things when we are home- I can ask that.

So far the discussion has been about risks etc- very open- but today tense and unpleasant.

Nothing about me is authoritarian-

[blueerica]

I think it's right that you at least said that you were uncomfortable and had some concerns. To say nothing would have been the same as asking him to call you Doormat, and that's no good.

Unfortunately, through my mom, I've seen parenting gone awry. There's a whole story that continues to this very afternoon that would take too long to relate, but I've come to believe that success will come when there's consistency and honesty and it sounds like you're on the path to building that with him. If I could give you a hug, I'd give you one, because I need it. I mean, you need it, too. ;)

I'm just glad my sisters aren't at that sexual phase yet. Heaven help me!

[BarTopDancer]

My parents house? My parents rules. No sex under their roof. Did I? Yup, but they made it hard to do so. Even at 20 it was a battle (that they eventualy gave up because I was paying rent) about no boys in the room with the door closed. Their house, their rules. I was free to leave.

It's her house, and her kids should respect her rules as long as they live under her roof.

There are also a number of reasons 17 y/os should not be having sex that don't involve what a parent thinks. Emotional maturity is a the top of the list.

[Morrigoon]

Nephy, I think your relationship with your son has come a VERY long way when you are able to handle this as well as you have.

Only you can decide if you are going to allow it in your house. But FWIW, there can be some distinct advantages to knowing where and when he's doing it. (Being that you have more ability to control the where, when, and how)

If you would like to consider allowing it, you can lay some ground rules for him, like the following:
1. Never when anybody else is home - anybody. Especially the other kids.
2. Protection MUST be used every time, all the time. It is to be disposed of properly.
3. He must wash his linens afterward.
4. No telling his siblings about your arrangement. As far as any of them know they'd better wait till they are 18, and you expect his support in that.

This will help him develop a sense of how to go about his private business responsibly and appropriately.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

You make some really good points, Morrigoon.

Nephy, what the hell do I know about raising kids but - my guess is that when you approached him calm and collected, he might not have known how to respond in kind and therefore, did what came naturally and became defensive. It's always a shock the first time your parents actually treat you like an adult - maybe he just didn't know how to respond to that.

Personally, I think that what would bother me the most is him going into performance mode when there are younger kids in the house who can hear the show. It seems perfectly reasonable to put a halt to that. Beyond that, I think it comes down to whether you would like to know what is going on or not know. Putting your foot down too hard seems like it may just lead to less communication and that seems to be the opposite direction from where you want to be with your son.

Like I said, I don't know anything about raising kids. Just offering my first impressions. I don't envy your situation and I recommend lots of deep breaths.

[RStar]

{{{{{{{Nephythys}}}}}}}



I know what you are going through. Hang in there.




~Bob

[wendybeth]

I recommend tequila. I plan on having a full bar when Tori hits that age. Geeesh, the kid has had crushes on boys since kindergarten! Actually, I think you really are handling it well and I commend you- this is a tough one.

[tracilicious]

I have not forbidden sex- but I can certainly forbid it in my house if I am not comfortable with it- especially with the younger kids.


But why are you not comfortable with it?

[Nephythys]

But why are you not comfortable with it?

Because I, as his mother, have no desire to hear the moans, thrashing and bed springs going a mile a minute over my head when I am trying to do things in my home. I sure as hell would not want his brothers and sister to hear such things-

I mean come on- do kids appreciate listening to their parents?

This isn't sharing time-it's quiet and discreet and if they can not do that then they won't do it anywhere near my house.

[3894]

This isn't sharing time-it's quiet and discreet and if they can not do that then they won't do it anywhere near my house.

I've been thinking a lot about this, Nephythys. It's a tough situation and I think you deserve :snap: for being really clear with your son.

This is only how I would see it with my two girls. They know very well how much noise carries in our house. They know that they need to whisper upstairs about who "borrowed" whose clothes and didn't return them, if they don't want mom to hear. I would definitely think that if I overheard one of them having sex, that daughter was testing me, maybe even "asking" me to rise to the occasion and set/reaffirm the boundaries appropriate for our family.

[Morrigoon]

Excellent point, 3894!

And Nephy, ya rose to the occaision when you had a "little talk" with him. Well done!