Irvine fire [Archive] - Page 2 - Lounge of Tomorrow

Morrigoon

10-24-2007, 10:18 AM

Not too sure about the air here in GG, but it looks nasty out the window. I'm purposely staying inside today with the air purifier on.
Wise woman.

I, on the other hand, along with Mommygoon, painted Kilz primer on my kitchen walls last night. So we get to choose between unventilated paint fumes, or paint fumes ventilated with smoke.

(we went for smoke)

BarTopDancer

10-24-2007, 10:32 AM

According to the OCFA website, the fire is 50% contained. YAY!

And for some reason (maybe air quality?) Mile Square park is closed.

Kevy Baby

10-24-2007, 10:47 AM

Not too sure about the air here in GG, but it looks nasty out the window. I'm purposely staying inside today with the air purifier on.

And they still won't let you leave, eh?Interesting pair of posts to read in succession.

BarTopDancer

10-24-2007, 11:02 AM

Now I am pissed.

The only reason they are not letting us leave is because of the nastygram we got from the Prez yesterday. So we're sitting her choking on smoke coming in from the fire out in the foothills and they tell us to wear a mask. When you have to wear a mask it's time to leave.

Disneyphile

10-24-2007, 11:06 AM

A mask?

That sounds like a work hazard to me.

Ghoulish Delight

10-24-2007, 11:24 AM

And for some reason (maybe air quality?) Mile Square park is closed.I believe it. I work not far from Mile Square and this morning, while the smoke smell had completely dissipated at home in Orange (closer to the fires), it's still dark, smoky, and ashy here in the South Coast Metro area. Seems the winds are converging right around here.

Hope it's better by tomorrow when I'm supposed to play soccer at Mile Square.

Morrigoon

10-24-2007, 11:30 AM

BarTopDancer

10-24-2007, 11:41 AM

Morrigoon

10-24-2007, 11:53 AM

I mean, can't someone call OSHA?

Betty

10-24-2007, 01:42 PM

Just say you're not feeling well (cough cough) and need to leave.

alphabassettgrrl

10-24-2007, 03:24 PM

The only reason they are not letting us leave is because of the nastygram we got from the Prez yesterday. So we're sitting her choking on smoke coming in from the fire out in the foothills and they tell us to wear a mask. When you have to wear a mask it's time to leave.

Hmmm... yeah, sounds smarter to me. Dumb to keep you there- the company's liable for any lung issues that arise later.

Wear a mask? I'm not impressed. If it's that bad it is definitely time to get the heck out of Dodge.

BarTopDancer

10-24-2007, 04:08 PM

I'm home. We had some power surges and our battery back-ups were failing. Took care of that and finally left. Not sure if I am going in tomorrow.

NirvanaMan

10-24-2007, 05:33 PM

Hello. I'm back.

And...WOW! I am absolutely blown away by the tremendous response and amount of support offered by everyone in this thread. After the emotional roller coaster that would have been exciting even for CoasterMatt, I am quite frankly, moved. I don't know what to say other than thank you. Thank you all.

I know many offered support, others went so far as to come to the rescue (not knowing at the time they had shut down my street to incoming traffic. It is appreciated and then some.

Kevy and NA were in regular contact but I didn't realize they were kind enough to constantly update the board. Also BTD and I had a few txt exchanges and helped me out immensely yesterday as well.

So more to come, including a full "trip report" with a few shots I managed to capture. But I am at work now and need to get back to that. I will get my PC out of my Lightning tonight and hook it back up, try to get the house back in order.

Again, you are all amazing.

Moonliner

10-24-2007, 05:36 PM

I will get my PC out of my Lightning tonight and hook it back up, try to get the house back in order.

Again, you are all amazing.

I'm just happy you have a house to get back in order. :snap:

cirquelover

10-24-2007, 05:47 PM

Ditto what he said! I'm glad you're ok and your house is still there!

€uroMeinke

10-24-2007, 06:36 PM

So I heard on NPR this morning that as a result of these fires and weather patterns Long Beach has been setting records for poorest air quality - I think we now have an answer as to why Not Afraid's been feeling like crap lately.

wendybeth

10-24-2007, 07:03 PM

Glad to hear from you, NM!:cheers:

JWBear

10-24-2007, 07:09 PM

Not Afraid

10-24-2007, 07:14 PM

I have a date with my aiy purifier tonight. I'm frelling misreable!

Scrooge McSam

10-24-2007, 07:25 PM

NM, it was touching to watch from here, as well.

I'm glad everything worked out as well as it did.

alphabassettgrrl

10-24-2007, 08:04 PM

Glad you're back in your house NM! Glad you have a house to come back to...

Cadaverous Pallor

10-24-2007, 08:20 PM

Party at NM's house

DreadPirateRoberts

10-24-2007, 08:34 PM

Party at NM's house

A house warming?

Not Afraid

10-24-2007, 08:35 PM

All you punny people are going to burn in hell.

Disneyphile

10-24-2007, 08:37 PM

All you punny people are going to burn in hell.Yay! SoCal is also my destined afterlife!

Gemini Cricket

10-24-2007, 08:49 PM

A house warming?
lol! :D
Good one.

DreadPirateRoberts

10-24-2007, 08:50 PM

All you punny people are going to burn in hell.

Disc inferno. At least I won't be alone. :D

Kevy Baby

10-24-2007, 09:54 PM

All you punny people are going to burn in hell.Can one go to a place one does not believe in?

Alex

10-24-2007, 09:55 PM

Apparently, I have been to Amarillo.

CoasterMatt

10-24-2007, 10:32 PM

Burn in Hell is one of my favorite Twisted Sister songs.

That's all I've got to contribute to this thread at this point.

BarTopDancer

10-24-2007, 11:19 PM

All the schools in RSM are closed due to poor air quality.

I think I am going to email the bosses.

Morrigoon

10-24-2007, 11:28 PM

This is wild, I'm up here at El Toro and Painted Trails, just a block and a half below the police barricade, and there are at least 10 cars of people stopped along the side of the road here, just watching the fire. It's kinda moving in this direction, so it's totally fascinating. (don't worry, still a safe distance)

I'll have photos when I get home to upload.

Morrigoon

10-25-2007, 01:02 AM

Okay, I've got photos uploaded. First, last night found me back up at WalMart getting paint. Tried to get photos, but the fire was not as bright because at that time it was blowing away from the area, and down the canyons.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060316.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060318.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060319.jpg

Smoke over my parking lot this morning, about 8:40am

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060330.jpg

From the office (Aliso Viejo), the smoke was so thick today that you could no longer see where it was rising from (probably a good thing, because it meant the wind had died down)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060333.jpg

Tonight, I could see the fires up on the hills as I was driving up El Toro, and couldn't resist driving up a bit to see what I could see. Got up above Saddleback Church and got these pics:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060340.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060341.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060343.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060355.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060371.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/morrigoon/fire%20near%20home/P1060382.jpg

Kevy Baby

10-25-2007, 07:43 AM

All the schools in RSM are closed due to poor air quality.

I think I am going to email the bosses.Try not to get hot under the collar. You might get burned.

Gn2Dlnd

10-25-2007, 07:52 AM

What he said.

Moonliner

10-25-2007, 07:56 AM

I have to say, I'm a bit burnt out on all these fire puns.

DreadPirateRoberts

10-25-2007, 08:06 AM

I have to say, I'm a bit burnt out on all these fire puns.

Give it time, maybe you'll warm up to them.

BarTopDancer

10-25-2007, 08:19 AM

I emailed my bosses and I copied HR. I also emailed HR to express disappointment in how the situation is being handled. And that is all. They are going to do what they are going to do.

But my bosses are in IL and TX and HR is in TX, so they aren't here to make a truly informed decision.

Morrigoon

10-25-2007, 09:36 AM

I'm tellin' ya... call OSHA.

BarTopDancer

10-25-2007, 10:22 AM

HR called me back. I am working from home and anyone who wants to can leave and work from home. The Prez realizes he did not do good with his nastygram and they are monitoring the situation and may close the office. HR realizes that since they aren't there they really don't know how bad it is. There are maybe 10 people in the office.

SzczerbiakManiac

10-25-2007, 10:47 AM

Can one go to a place one does not believe in?Apparently, I have been to Amarillo.visible mojo Alex!

Kevy Baby

10-25-2007, 11:49 AM

I have to say, I'm a bit burnt out on all these fire puns.Sounds like you are really burning up inside!

Morrigoon

10-25-2007, 01:31 PM

He just needs to see a spark of creativity in these puns, otherwise he's going to kick our ashes.

DreadPirateRoberts

10-25-2007, 01:32 PM

He just needs to see a spark of creativity in these puns, otherwise he's going to kick our ashes.

You better stop. You don't want him to get steamed.

Moonliner

10-25-2007, 01:35 PM

If we don't douse this soon it will get out of control.

Disneyphile

10-25-2007, 01:37 PM

I think all of you are just blowing smoke. What a way to ignite a perfectly decent conversation. Geesh.

blueerica

10-25-2007, 01:41 PM

<insert the rolling of eyes here>

:D

Morrigoon

10-25-2007, 01:44 PM

If you think that roar of disapproval is going to extinguish the conversation, you're wrong.

blueerica

10-25-2007, 01:46 PM

LMFAO!!

BarTopDancer

10-25-2007, 01:55 PM

Tastes like ash

blueerica

10-25-2007, 02:14 PM

Better than tasting like a$$

Not Afraid

10-25-2007, 02:15 PM

I'm burning up with loe for you all.

BarTopDancer

10-25-2007, 02:28 PM

What's loe?

Morrigoon

10-25-2007, 02:30 PM

Is it like roe? Because I don't do fish eggs.

Disneyphile

10-25-2007, 02:51 PM

Maybe it's roe soaked in lye?

Eggs ala lutefisk. ;)

Kevy Baby

10-25-2007, 03:05 PM

Maybe it's roe soaked in lye?I don't think she was lying.

Disneyphile

10-25-2007, 03:09 PM

She might be. We all know NA's caustic. ;)

JWBear

10-25-2007, 03:10 PM

Let sleeping dogs lye?

BarTopDancer

10-26-2007, 10:41 AM

$250,000 reward for the jackhole who started this fire.

Capt Jack

10-26-2007, 10:56 AM

it was Kevy...

pay up.

Kevy Baby

10-26-2007, 11:16 AM

I'm willing to take the fall if you split the reward with me.

blueerica

10-26-2007, 01:10 PM

LOL, I was just saying that to another friend...

BarTopDancer

10-26-2007, 09:45 PM

Tuesday on the left and Thursday on the right. Same time of day (mid afternoon)

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7440/beforeafterfl2.jpg

Moonliner

10-31-2007, 06:29 AM

Arson is now the definite confirmed cause.

If I ran the world, I'd catch the arson, hand him a bucket and garden hose, and drop them into the middle of the blaze and wish them luck.

It turns out that at least one of the fires was started by a kid playing with matches (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/fire.california/index.html). So now what do you do?

If the kid is 9? 12? 15? 17?

Stan4dSteph

10-31-2007, 06:50 AM

The kid definitely needs to see some personal consequences.

Snowflake

10-31-2007, 07:51 AM

Wow, just read this thread since I missed it all. What an incredible bunch!

NM, so glad you & yours and all your cars and bikes are safe.

Freakin scary, scary thing.

LoT, what a great community. :cheers:

Snowflake

10-31-2007, 07:52 AM

The kid definitely needs to see some personal consequences.

Absolutely, as do the parents if the kid is a real young-un.

BarTopDancer

10-31-2007, 08:20 AM

Moonliner

10-31-2007, 08:22 AM

This wasn't the Irvine fire. This was the Buckwheat fire up in LA.

The Santiago Fire (Irvine fire) is still arson.

It would be funny if a little rascal started the "Buckwheat" fire, but this was the Buckweed fire.

BarTopDancer

10-31-2007, 08:25 AM

It would be funny if a little rascal started the "Buckwheat" fire, but this was the Buckweed fire.

Quoted for all eternity, but fixed in my post :p

Disneyphile

10-31-2007, 10:22 AM

It turns out that at least one of the fires was started by a kid playing with matches (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/fire.california/index.html). So now what do you do?

If the kid is 9? 12? 15? 17?I'd make him gather up all of his stuff, and make him light it on fire and watch it burn. But, that's if I were the parent, because then I wouldn't buy replacement items either - he'd have to earn money via really hard chores and other things, and the process would be slooooooow, since at least half of all his earnings would be donated to the relief funds, with a personal apology letter written to each family affected (whether they were just evacuated or suffered damages). The little brat would be rebuilding his/her own life for a looooooong time.

I'm sure some folks would think that's cruel though.

If I were the authority, I'd drag the parents into court, and make them pay into the relief fund and community service. Which, in turn, I would hope encourage the parents to do exactly what I just posted.

Morrigoon

10-31-2007, 12:40 PM

But if the parents have to work extra hours in order to pay damages, doesn't that leave their kid that much less attended to?

Kevy Baby

10-31-2007, 12:51 PM

The kid should just get a stern talking. That is all he needs.

Seriously, there is only so much one can do to punish the kid. They have not released his age, but since he was playing with matches, I would venture to guess he was under 12. Harsh punishment (such as Juvenile Hall) would only damage the kid and serve no positive function to society as a whole (it would probably only create another lifetime criminal). However, there are things that could be done to punish the boy and teach him the severity of his crime. If it were up to me, taking the kid to some of the homes that were burned up and talking to people who lost all of their possessions would be one thing that comes to mind (pre-screened people who wouldn't yell at the kid - just highlight how this tragedy affected their lives and discuss some of the things they lost).

The parents are, I believe, technically liable, both criminally and civilly for the fire (including the cost to fight it and property loss).

Gemini Cricket

10-31-2007, 12:52 PM

In the spirit of Halloween, they should remove his fingers so he can never play with matches again.

I'm joking, of course.
:D

Morrigoon

10-31-2007, 01:04 PM

The parents are, I believe, technically liable, both criminally and civilly for the fire (including the cost to fight it and property loss).

They are... I'm just pointing out how silly that is, since we all know that the entirety of their families fortunes cannot account for a drop in the bucket of the actual costs incurred, and that financially devastating the family, while it may feel good and just to the fire victims, will serve no useful purpose other than to make it that much harder for the child to receive the supervision he obviously requires.

But I can't suggest we change the system either, because the last thing we need is a world in which parents feel they can let their kids run wild with no consequences.

... oops, too late.

BarTopDancer

10-31-2007, 01:09 PM

The Griffith Park fire was started by teens playing with lighters.

No charges were filed.

Moonliner

10-31-2007, 01:13 PM

I suppose a lot would depend on the exact circumstances. Who among us has played with matches at some point? I know I have and I know my kids have. It's fairly normal for a kid to play with matches.

It's just that most kids don't start fires that burn down multiple dwellings. So what really happened? Did the kid see the other fires on TV and say WOW that looks cool, followed by running into the brush and setting a dozen different bushes on fire?

Or did the kid just sneak out behind the house to light a match or two and things got horribly out of hand? It's easy for a kid to think that once they blow out a match, it's out and not to know what can happen if you toss that extinguished match into some dry brush.....

Cadaverous Pallor

10-31-2007, 01:57 PM

Or did the kid just sneak out behind the house to light a match or two and things got horribly out of hand? In that case I can't even imagine being the kid or the family involved. They must be horribly distraught, and I'd probably handle it much the same way they handled the father who left his baby in the car by mistake (he never usually dropped the kid off at daycare, so he completely forgot the sleeping kid was in there and just drove to work) and the kid died - the guy was so destroyed by what he had done, no punishment from the gov't was needed.

Disneyphile

10-31-2007, 02:15 PM

Ok, being less harsh, at a bare minimum, I'd make the kid personally hand all his belongings to the fire victims to replace a bit of what they lost. He needs to experience the loss for himself.

Morrigoon

10-31-2007, 02:36 PM

Actually, I liked the idea of burning the kid's belongings. I know that sounds weird in light of my other comments, but in that case, the punishment fits the crime.

NirvanaMan

10-31-2007, 02:46 PM

I blame Beavis and Butthead.

katiesue

10-31-2007, 02:47 PM

I think dontating them to kids that lost everything would have more direct impact. And maybe meeting with some families or helping with some clean up would give a close up perspective on exactly what you'd done.

Kevy Baby

10-31-2007, 05:22 PM

Ok, being less harsh, at a bare minimum, I'd make the kid personally hand all his belongings to the fire victims to replace a bit of what they lost. He needs to experience the loss for himself.I disagree. It will only leave a negative (non growth) impact on the kid. The parents will then replace the stuff and leave the kid with the impression that what he did was okay (since the people who lost all of their possessions would be getting all new stuff as well).

Let the parents deal with the kid; society deals with the parents.

Actually, I liked the idea of burning the kid's belongings. I know that sounds weird in light of my other comments, but in that case, the punishment fits the crime.That's a terrible idea. It becomes about vengeance and not about punishment.

BarTopDancer

10-31-2007, 05:31 PM

If it was truly an accident I think that the kid should help with clean-up and maybe help with fund raising for the efforts. Accidents do happen, and this was truly a horrible accident (if it was one). But vengeance (burning), and giving his stuff away isn't going to make an impact. We also have no idea how old the kid is. No, he shouldn't have been playing with matches. Perhaps he should have been better supervised, perhaps his parents knew what he was doing. We don't know the full story. But as long as this was an accident and not arson burning his stuff, making him give his stuff away isn't going to help him realize what he caused. And for all we know he already does know and realize.

Can I ask that someone with power move this discussion to the LA fires thread since that this (the accident) was what started one of the LA fires and not the Irvine fire?

lashbear

11-01-2007, 02:50 AM

The Griffith Park fire was started by teens playing with lighters.

No charges were filed.

Why ?? :confused:

BarTopDancer

11-01-2007, 08:11 AM

Why ?? :confused:

Stupid, dumb accident. That's not to say that they won't be hit with a clean-up bill. But the kids aren't going to jail.

blueerica

11-01-2007, 09:00 AM

I guess I have little faith in kids today - and that's in large part due to the attitudes of my sisters and their SoCal/Orange County/Big Attitude friends that don't see the repercussions to any actions they might take. Talking to kids seems to do little, especially since they're largely dismissive. Of course this is a case-by-case situation; some kids listen better than others. I don't believe that kids today take responsibility for their actions, especially when the blame gets passed around things are fixed with money. I think that's why, and it's not necessarily what I would do, I rather liked the idea that the kid needs to go through something as drastic as losing some of his or her possessions. Something more drastic than a "talking to" anyway - because to me, this is only a peak in a long string of kids getting away with crap - it's a sign of parents and money solving issues that teens and pre-teens need to learn to feel accountable for.

I think something I would look at would be mandatory community service either related to the SoCal fires or with any other non profit that deals with this sort of scenario.

Oh, and I'd move the threads, but I'm short on time and I am too lazy to weed out which threads go where.

Kevy Baby

11-01-2007, 09:55 AM

I maintain that most kid attitude problems starts with parents in general. Yes, one could say that kids learn attitudes from other kids, but I believe a lot of parenting today is WAY too permissive.

Just my humble $0.02 worth.

Oh, and I'd move the threads, but I'm short on time and I am too lazy to weed out which threads go where.Eh... no need to move anything IMO. It's just splitting hairs.