Hollywood's Writers' Strike

[Gemini Cricket]

I thought this would be a good topic for a thread.
Your opinions?


The strike has finally struck.
After an 11th-hour 11-hour-long (go figure) meeting between the Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers flamed out Sunday, the pens that power Hollywood are taking to the pickets.
According to the writers' union, scribes plan on picketing 15 Los Angeles locations, along with NBC's Rockefeller Center studios in New York, in four-hour shifts beginning at 9 a.m. Monday, every day until a new deal is reached.
Source (http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=3b1113ca-7b0f-4aca-bce2-5e044ddaa2d7&sid=fd-hot1-txt)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Are they allowed to write picket signs?

[Kevy Baby]

They stockpiled them before the strike began. They didn't want to have to use scab picket-sign writers.

[BarTopDancer]

I think the writers should be compensated for the work they do on direct to internet shows and the contracts should include compensation for the dvd sales. These things were not around or not projected to become what they are when the contracts were written.

I am not aware of what they are asking for, so I can't form an educated opinion if it is reasonable or unreasonable.

[Disneyphile]

Ok, I'm being extremely selfish about this one - this strike couldn't have come at a better time for me, and I'm thankful for it. Because of this, investors are "chomping at the bit" right now to find shows that aren't affected by this. The show I'm working on is a prime candidate for those investors. ;)

[Morrigoon]

The temptation to try and become a scab writer is very strong. Anything to get out of this dead end I'm in.

(having a good day, can you tell?)

T, I did think of you when I heard this... GREAT news for your project!

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think the writers should be compensated for the work they do on direct to internet shows and the contracts should include compensation for the dvd sales. These things were not around or not projected to become what they are when the contracts were written.A commentary I heard pointed out that they will be stupid to focus on DVD revenue. Yes the failure to predict that relevance of that at the time of the last contract has cost them big over the last several years...but that's the last several years. DVD's aren't going to last forever and they'd be smarter to not make that they're main sticking point, but try to get a contract written that will account for the emerging new media distribution methods, otherwise they'll find themselves in the exact same position with DVD sales disappearing and not getting a cut of whatever takes its place.

[Gemini Cricket]

There was a lot of traffic on Alameda this morning as I was driving to work. Picketers in front of NBC, Warner and Disney.

[Morrigoon]

A commentary I heard pointed out that they will be stupid to focus on DVD revenue. Yes the failure to predict that relevance of that at the time of the last contract has cost them big over the last several years...but that's the last several years. DVD's aren't going to last forever and they'd be smarter to not make that they're main sticking point, but try to get a contract written that will account for the emerging new media distribution methods, otherwise they'll find themselves in the exact same position with DVD sales disappearing and not getting a cut of whatever takes its place.

Excellent point. Worth repeating.

[BarTopDancer]

A commentary I heard pointed out that they will be stupid to focus on DVD revenue. Yes the failure to predict that relevance of that at the time of the last contract has cost them big over the last several years...but that's the last several years. DVD's aren't going to last forever and they'd be smarter to not make that they're main sticking point, but try to get a contract written that will account for the emerging new media distribution methods, otherwise they'll find themselves in the exact same position with DVD sales disappearing and not getting a cut of whatever takes its place.

That is a great point. I should have said (because it's what I meant) was that the new contracts should include dvds now as well as new media (because who knows how things will be in 10 years).

An ideal contract would account for all new media distribution methods.

[BDBopper]

Ok, I'm being extremely selfish about this one - this strike couldn't have come at a better time for me, and I'm thankful for it. Because of this, investors are "chomping at the bit" right now to find shows that aren't affected by this. The show I'm working on is a prime candidate for those investors. ;)

Woot Woot!

[BDBopper]

I can't help it. I have to quote Animaniacs...

"Our Writers flipped. We have no script! Why bother to rehearse?"

[Morrigoon]

I wonder though... would being a scab writer get you blacklisted in the future? Probably.

[Gemini Cricket]

I wonder though... would being a scab writer get you blacklisted in the future? Probably.
Probably... I'm not for certain, though.

[Ghoulish Delight]

My biggest worry in all of this is what it will do to Lost. I know they've got a lot of the scripts done and have begun shooting episodes, but with that show in particular, there's a lot of writing that's not done until they're very close to starting shooting, or even while they're shooting.

This must put actor/writers in an awkward position. As I understand it, if you do both for a show (e.g. B. J. NovaK on The Office), you are allowed to continue to act if they have scripts already written, but if they want to do a rewrite, no go. That's got to lead to frustration. And I wonder how much they'll try to get away with "ad-libbing" instead of "Writing" changes into scenes.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I dunno. Anybody see tv shows now-a-days? They have writers????

[innerSpaceman]

Keep up with the news, folks. The Writers Guild dropped their demand for an increase on DVD revenues over the weekend. The sticking points is the revenues on new media.

And because the Producers' Alliance had the writers agree in their last contract negotiations to a paltry DVD percentage because it was a new media, only to now refuse to give them an increased percentage now that it's an old media ... is precisely the reason why the writer's shouldn't budge on their current new media demands. Fool me once, shame on me ... and all that.


I was so pleased to see picket lines all around Sony Studios on my way to work this morning. I hope individual teamsters exercise their conscience rights to honor those picket lines.


Neither side has been a shining beacon of civility and reason during the negotiations ... but the writers are the initial creators of the work which, from that point and that point only, goes on to provide every single job in the entertainment industry. Whereas the producers and studios have proven themselves time and again - and in some very recent court rulings for good measure - to be dishonest, greedy bastards who won't honor their legal committments and will cheat everyone they can sucker.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I wonder though... would being a scab writer get you blacklisted in the future? Probably.

For certain, I'd say.

And yes, Mark, there are some damn fine writers on TV right now.

[Morrigoon]

That brings up a good question (keeping with the theme of cheating greedy bastards), I wonder if there are picket lines in front of Disney today?

[Kevy Baby]

I dunno. Anybody see tv shows now-a-days? They have writers????I believe there are some very good writers on TV today, both on episodic TV as well as late night (Leno, Letterman, etc.)

Keep up with the news, folks.Where's the fun in that?

Seriously though, this is one of the rare times I support a union. Normally, I am not a big fan of them, but this time, they are right.

And yes, Mark, there are some damn fine writers on TV right now.OK, so you beat me to it.

[Alex]

We're in a golden age of television dramas (and have been for half a decade).

I'm generally anti-union and that holds for the WGA as well. But since that is the form everybody involved has settled on things like this are the inevitable result. It's a marketplace. There isn't really any "fair" except for when the producers fail to meet their contractually obligated payments (which is common).

To the extent my sympathies matter they lean towards the writers (pretty much everybody I know actively in the industry is on the writing end of things). Sucky or good they'll eventually reach a settlement and if both sides agree then it is "fair." I'm not dramatically impacted however it goes.

[innerSpaceman]

And yes, there are picket lines around Disney today. And every major studio facility in town.

[Alex]

I meant to go by the Pixar campus today to see if there was anything there. I know that WGA only covers some animation and am not sure if that includes Disney or not.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I believe there are some very good writers on TV today, both on episodic TV as well as late night (Leno, Letterman, etc.)

seriously though, this is one of the rare times I support a union. Normally, I am not a big fan of them, but this time, they are right.

OK, so you beat me to it.

Seeing that 90% seems to be reality show, there is a very small percentage, but I've yet to see it. I guess that whole "Cavemen" thing really killed my desire to watch tv anymore. :( Everytime I turn on the tube its "Kidnap your favorite 5th Grader" or "The Bachlor."

That aside - I agree the writers deserve so much more than they get. Its sad and unfair and I hope they succed.

[Kevy Baby]

Seeing that 90% seems to be reality show, there is a very small percentage, but I've yet to see it. I guess that whole "Cavemen" thing really killed my desire to watch TV anymore. :( Every time I turn on the tube its "Kidnap your favorite 5th Grader" or "The Bachelor."Might I suggest either (sticking to non-pay channels - there are a lot of good shows on HBO & Showtime) House or Bones (which both happen to be on Fox). Also, Gray's Anatomy has picked back up this year (it got a little off-kilter last year).

Another fun show is Meerkat Manor on Animal Planet (OK: this isn't a writing showcase, but it is a good show to watch).

I will leave it with these suggestions: I am sure others will throw in their choices as well.

(And why does Firefox not recognize "Meerkat" and suggest "Ekaterina"???)

[Gemini Cricket]

I'm just hoping that they'll bring "Small Wonder" back.

[Kevy Baby]

Oh, and a GREAT show, albeit old, that one can find on Universal HD is Northern Exposure. Yes, this is an old show, but it had some of the best writing on TV. That it was shot on film (hence, why it is on HD) only adds to the wonder of it.

[Disneyphile]

I thought "Small Wonder" grew up and became the premise for "Weird Science"? ;)

Actually, I think we should write a whole new remake of "Small Wonder" - this time, about a guy who builds a new penis for himself by combining some of the drugs/techniques he receives in various spam emails, but it "comes alive" and forms a mind of its own, and plots to take over the world.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

You're clearly not watching the right shows, then. We watch 0% reality TV (except the kind of show that Tom edits, which is instructional/educational reality TV like Alton Brown's Good Eats) but our plate is full of cleverly written shows - my favorite of which, right now, is Tina Fey's 30 Rock.

In recent years, The Office, Veronica Mars, Lost, House, The Daily Show and The Colbert Report have been regulars on our TiVo and the writing staffs are brilliant; we'd be proud to be a part of them. Even this season, Pushing Daisies has shown promise and I bet you'd like it.

The key is: ignore Cavemen and the other bull****. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

And if we're going old, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (if you'll get past the stigma from the horrible original movie and your preconceived notions) was one of the best things ever written.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Horrible original movie?

Horrible original movie?!

Them's fightin' words.

[Kevy Baby]

Another recommendation: Eureka! on Sci Fi

[Kevy Baby]

And if we're going old, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (if you'll get past the stigma from the horrible original movie and your preconceived notions) was one of the best things ever written.

Horrible original movie?

Horrible original movie?!

Them's fightin' words.I'm with GD on this one. While the movie was different (particularly, it was much darker than the series), it was good. Not great, but still quite good.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Horrible original movie?

Horrible original movie?!

Them's fightin' words.

OK, so it's not horrible. (Just not my favorite.) But talk to me when you've seen the first three seasons of the TV show and we'll see which you think is superior.

[Alex]

I'll take the LPSE side.

Also the first season of Heroes was incredibly well written (the book is still out on Season 2). Battlestar Gallactica, The Wire, The Shield, Arrested Development, Deadwood, The Sopranos, etc., all are recent examples of great writing.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I'm with GD on this one. While the movie was different (particularly, it was much darker than the series), it was good. Not great, but still quite good.

Darker? I don't see that at all, really. Less funny, that I see. But even in its comic moments, the series was pretty dark, too.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I watched the entire first season. Admittedly, that's not the first 3 seasons, but it was enough for me not to watch season 2.

[Alex]

Never seen an episode of the show but the movie was a stinker.

[BarTopDancer]

Good shows:

Lost
Heros
Jericho (coming back in Jan. All episodes are already filmed)
Gray's Anatomy
Private Practice (Gray's spin off)
House
Bones
The 4400
The Office
My Name is Earl
L&O SVU
30 Rock
Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip and Arrested Development(until they were prematurely canceled)
I'll still put 24 up there even if it is predictable now.

The one positive about the strike is that shows are being given a chance to air before they are yanked. Perhaps a few new shows will now have time to develop an audience; instead of being pulled after 3 weeks and so-so rating.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I'll take the LPSE side.

Also the first season of Heroes was incredibly well written (the book is still out on Season 2). Battlestar Gallactica, The Wire, The Shield, Arrested Development, Deadwood, The Sopranos, etc., all are recent examples of great writing.

I'll see your Arrested Development and I'll raise you Freaks and Geeks.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I watched the entire first season. Admittedly, that's not the first 3 seasons, but it was enough for me not to watch season 2.

I'm not a big season 1 fan, actually. Seasons 2 and 3 are my favorite seasons of television, ever.

[BarTopDancer]

I'll see your Arrested Development and I'll raise you Freaks and Geeks.

Oh Freaks and Geeks was awesome! I hear that is on DVD now.

[Ponine]

OK, so it's not horrible. (Just not my favorite.) But talk to me when you've seen the first three seasons of the TV show and we'll see which you think is superior.

Let me just say, I vote for the movie.
I hate the show.
BUT... before you blast me... I also detest all things/movies scary. I cannot watch a scary movie. And the show gave me the heebie jeebies.

[JWBear]

No mention of Ugly Betty?! Just about the funniest thing on TV!

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I need to get some clips from the episode of Buffy I was an extra in.

Thought it was a neat show - I only watched a few episodes - Really liked the film. Paul Rubens was hysterical.

30Rock is a great, GREAT show.

[Kevy Baby]

Good shows:

Private Practice (Gray's spin off)I forgot about that one. But they keep having these shows that just rip me apart emotionally.

No mention of Ugly Betty?! Just about the funniest thing on TV!Thank you for that one - VERY good!

I need to get some clips from the episode of Buffy I was an extra in.Susan has every season of both Buffy and Angel on DVD. You can peruse her collection. Which episode was it?

I was sold on Buffy in the episode (I think it was first season) where a zombie regenerates and Buffy makes a comment to the effect of "I've SEEN the movies" as she stakes him a second time. The comic relief of the show is part of what kept me interested (I normally don't like the "horror" genre - you've seen one zombie, you've seen 'em all).

[Disneyphile]

I loved the musical episode of Buffy. Now that was brilliant! :snap:

[Gemini Cricket]

I've never seen the following shows:

CSI - any of them
Any of the new Law and Order spin offs.
Heroes
Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie and series.
The Wire
The Sheild
Smallville
24

[Morrigoon]

Horrible original movie?

Horrible original movie?!

Them's fightin' words.

Thank you!

I was never able to get into the series (though I never put much effort into it either), but the movie was a triumph of silly comedy.

[Morrigoon]

Oooh, GC: 24 is really good. I've only caught like 2 episodes of it ever, but it's really good. You just have to catch on that the whole series is time based.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Susan has every season of both Buffy and Angel on DVD. You can peruse her collection. Which episode was it?


It's season 2 episode 2 - called "Some Assembly Required" - some dead football player Frankenstien type dude is trying to assemble a "bride" from some cheerleaders. I'm at the football game when someone gets kidnapped and everybody looks concerned. :)

derail over.

[Chernabog]

24 is fun, when I am at my parents' house using the treadmill it is perfect to watch.

My faves are still Ugly Betty and Desperate Housewives. Pushing Daisies (a hot male lead plus Kristin Chenoweth PLUS Ellen "Suddenly Semour" Greene? So wonderful) is cute too (ABC done good these days!).

[Stan4dSteph]

30 Rock is even funnier if you work for GE.

[innerSpaceman]

Weeds has some of the best writing on TV.


I thought the first season of Heroes was pretty well written. I'm not gonna talk about stuff that's gone off the air, but there's been good writing on some recently departed stuff (Alex mentioned some, and I particularly agree on the HBO shows)


I don't watch TV ... but I will rent series DVDs of highly praised series. I just finished Heroes, and I may try some Smallville (though, not having seen any, there's too many seasons to catch up on). I'm not sure if I'm gonna bother with the 3rd season of Lost - I hear it went seriously south.

Someone suggested I stream Pushing Daisies from abc.com, but it means I'd still have to keep up with episodic TV. I much prefer to simply wait, and watch an entire season over a few days on DVD.


So keep the recommendations coming folks.


What seasons of 24 should I skip??



* * * * *

Obviously the writer's strike won't affect a non-TV watcher like me ... but I'm also glad that some series will get more than a week or two on the air to develop a style and perhaps a following before they are unceremoniously yanked from the schedule. A product shortage could be just the thing to ironically result in some good television.

[Gemini Cricket]

Some of the picketers at Disney were wearing Mickey gloves.
:D

[CoasterMatt]

We had some people at Universal today who were surprised that the theme park was open, because the news kept saying that all the studios are shutdown, and the sky is falling.

[Kevy Baby]

It's season 2 episode 2 - called "Some Assembly Required" - some dead football player Frankenstein type dude is trying to assemble a "bride" from some cheerleaders. I'm at the football game when someone gets kidnapped and everybody looks concerned. :)I will have to look for that.

[swanie]

Having just caught up on all 6 episodes from season 2 today...I have to say one of my favorite dramas on TV is Brothers & Sisters. With the exception of the pilot episode, the writing has been wonderfully done and the sibling banter is as smart and funny as anything on TV.

It also isn't suffering from Heroes' sophomore slump...which is/was our other favorite new show last year. It just seems to be getting better and better.

swanie

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Weeds has some of the best writing on TV.


I'll second that - I adore that show. I also love "The Riches" with Minnie Driver and Eddie Izzard, although they are on hiatus right now and probably for a bit longer now.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm not sure if I'm gonna bother with the 3rd season of Lost - I hear it went seriously south.Actually it got much better as season 3 went on and by the end I was a full fangirl once more - a great recovery over the suckitude towards the end of season 2.

[innerSpaceman]

ok, maybe I'll check it out.


Oh, and despite our reputations, MBC and I like Weeds because it is a great show ... not merely because it's about one of our favorite pastimes.

[Stan4dSteph]

What seasons of 24 should I skip?None

Actually it got much better as season 3 went on and by the end I was a full fangirl once more - a great recovery over the suckitude towards the end of season 2.Just wait for the zombie season!

[Gemini Cricket]

Oh, and despite our reputations, MBC and I like Weeds because it is a great show ... not merely because it's about one of our favorite pastimes.
Gardening?

[CoasterMatt]

My two favorite tv shows are Modern Marvels on History Channel, and Sunrise Earth on Discovery HD Theater.

[Matterhorn Fan]

Even this season, Pushing Daisies has shown promise and I bet you'd like it. Another plug for Pushing Daisies! Watch this show!

This is the only new show this year I really like, and one of the few I bothered to watch the pilot for. The writing is great, the cast is great, the look is great. I just worry it's too good, and it'll be canceled.

[innerSpaceman]

Ugh, I watched an episode of Pushing Daisies last night .. and while I love the concept and the art direction (and the lead is a cutie pie of unstandard type), I hate the forced quirkiness of the show and the strained zany tone.

Too bad, I had high hopes for this one. I can see why people like it ... but shows that try to be quirky (as opposed to just being quirky) really repulse me.



But whew, I was almost back to watching TV again. Dodged a bullet.

[mousepod]

After watching the first couple of episodes of every new scripted TV show this season, I have now deleted the TiVo season passes to all but three of them: Chuck, Life, and Dirty Sexy Money.

I will be sad when they run out of new episodes. Let's hope this strike doesn't last too long.

[Gemini Cricket]

Rumor has it that a few actors and voice talent folk may be joining the strike.
Could be interesting.

[NirvanaMan]

What seasons of 24 should I skip??




I would say all but the first. That was really the only must-see. Season 2 is fine. After that it started going downhill and last year was terrible. I don't think I can watch it this season.

[Prudence]

It's silly fluff, but I'm still watching Reaper.

[CoasterMatt]

Sabado Gigante is always good for laughs, too.

[BarTopDancer]

After watching the first couple of episodes of every new scripted TV show this season, I have now deleted the TiVo season passes to all but three of them: Chuck, Life, and Dirty Sexy Money.

I will be sad when they run out of new episodes. Let's hope this strike doesn't last too long.

I don't have high hopes for Dirty Sexy Money. I really like the show - but I don't think it will develop the fan base needed to maintain.

After the 2nd season 24 became really predictable. Then again I've only seen part of the 1st season. They will need to shake it up again. Though Keifer is still hot.

[Kevy Baby]

It's silly fluff, but I'm still watching Reaper.Susan too

[innerSpaceman]

I saw the first season of 24 when it was first aired. It's one of the reasons I stopped watching television. In those pre-Tivo days, I actually had to leave whereever I was on Tuesday nights (yeah, I went out on weeknights in those days) and rush home to watch 24 ... because you could not miss a single minute of a single episode.

I don't like being that hooked.


Anyways, I started watching Season 2 when it aired, and it was horrible. I heard the show got better again at some point, before getting worse.



I've heard nothing but good about Dirty Sexy Money. Do they stream it anywhere?

[BarTopDancer]

Not sure. Here is the page (http://abc.go.com/primetime/dirtysexymoney/index)

[lashbear]

Foo on all the shows and the writers.

Bring back re-runs of "Little House On Ther Prairie", "The Golden Girls", "The Brady Bunch" and "I Love Lucy".

[Boss Radio]

Best show on TV:

Mad Men.

[Morrigoon]

Lash: we actually get reruns of Little House on cable TV. I've spent many a sick day enjoying LHotP mini-marathons on TBS or whatever channel it's on.

[BDBopper]

Lash: we actually get reruns of Little House on cable TV. I've spent many a sick day enjoying LHotP mini-marathons on TBS or whatever channel it's on.

TBS used to show it but not anymore. It's on the Hallmark channel now every morning.

[Gemini Cricket]

Ooooh. Almanzo Wilder.
:)

[Disneyphile]

I love LHotP - I grew up watching it with my mother, and she loved it. (And still does.)

At the time, I used to think it was lame and sappy, but now I love it, because it totally takes me back to some good memories with mom. :)

[Gemini Cricket]

I just heard from a client that drivers are getting tickets from police if they honk for the strikers outside the 20th Century Fox lot. (Disturbing the peace.) Apparently, the Fox mucky mucks are not happy with the support. From what I hear, the honking can be heard in the executive offices at Fox.

[innerSpaceman]

Where's the Fox Studio? I'm gonna make a point of driving by there with my horn blaring ... and I'll fight any ticket in court.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Heh. I honked my horn outside of Fox yesterday. (They're on Pico, iSm.)

[Kevy Baby]

Honk if you're horny

[Disneyphile]

Kevy, you told us your horn was just "stuck". At least now we know the truth whenever we hear you blaring down the highway.

[blueerica]

Before I read Page 2 of this thread....

You guys liiiiiked the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie???!?!?

Mediocre at best, it prevented me from watching the first season of Buffy until I taped it for a friend toward the end of the season. And even then I didn't want to like it. It was okay - but.. bleh! I can't believe I hang out with you guys! ;)

Buffy did go on to become one of my all-time favorite shows.

I'm pretty much on the LSPE bandwagon, and it makes sense since we have a similar sense of television and movie tastes.

I don't know if anyone else has been watching it, but I've become a pretty big fan of Chuck on NBC. I pretty much can't miss an episode any more. Deadwood was one of my faves, as well as a number of other shows I'm feeling too lazy to list out.

Regarding the OP, I tend to be anti-union, though as Alex said, it's how things are run down here. I'd like to see them get a few drops off the new media teet. I don't know if anyone else here has gone online to watch episodes that have been missed, but it's good stuff and it's got advertising that can't be zipped and zapped through. They making major moolah off it. Same goes for all the shows available for purchase online, etc - there's gotta be something they can do for the writers. Sure, it's easy to say you "don't know what will happen with the future" with these new formats, but it seems as though if it fails, they have nothing to lose by throwing it into the contract, and if it's wildly successful everyone will be pretty happy. Heck, they'd have been better off keeping them happy and keeping the pundits out of it, because they would probably end up better off in the end (the producers, distributors) and they'd save a lot of face on it.

OK, back to reading the rest of the thread.... And you guys liked the original Buffy movie? I gotta sit on that one for a while..

[blueerica]

OOoh! So glad someone else likes Chuck! Go MP! ;)

Regarding 24, I'm with NM on that one - he's on the money. I have Season 1, and I should have Season 2, though it may be in a box in my closet... Not sure on that one. Halfway through Season 3, I stopped watching out of annoyance.

[innerSpaceman]

Heh. I honked my horn outside of Fox yesterday. (They're on Pico, iSm.)

Oh, duh. I work in CENTURY City, which used to be part of the 20th CENTURY Fox lot. Um, the Studio (what's left of it) is two seconds from my office. A Honking I Will Go.

[Morrigoon]

I didn't know that, iSm! Thanks for the new tidbit.

(I only ever think of Century City as that place where the Schubert USED to be)

[Gemini Cricket]

Eva Longoria: actress, model, pizza delivery girl (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7082456.stm).

[Kevy Baby]

Eva Longoria: actress, model, pizza delivery girl (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7082456.stm).But, Domino's?!?

[Chernabog]

Dammit when Ugly Betty and Desperate Housewives stop showing new episodes in December due to no new scripts, I'll only have video games, the Internet, netflix, disneyland, the movies, live theatre, a Bjork concert, holiday shopping and my friends with benefits to turn to for entertainment. Oh the humanity!

[Kevy Baby]

My condolences Cherny

[Gn2Dlnd]

I need these occasional breaks in production to catch up on old episodes.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think the writers' guild is going to get creamed. TV and moovie execs have plenty of options, even if they have to put some shows out to pasture. There's no telling what the cattle drag in as cheap, unscripted replacement mooterial. I don't expect the union will be able to milk them for much of anything.

Wait, what thread is this?

[innerSpaceman]

Nope, the Writers are going to come out way ahead. Showrunners are showing unanticipated support, in hopes of ending the strike quickly by shutting down production a lot faster than was expected.

If that support continues beyond the token stage, there will be no new tv shows within a few short weeks. The Producers Alliance cannot hope to end the strike even on the terms the Guild would have settled for beforethe strike.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I think the writers' guild is going to get creamed. TV and moovie execs have plenty of options, even if they have to put some shows out to pasture. There's no telling what the cattle drag in as cheap, unscripted replacement mooterial. I don't expect the union will be able to milk them for much of anything.


I concurd.

[Disneyphile]

Who needs writers anyway? There's plenty of good material right here on LoT. ;)

[Chernabog]

I concurd.

Oh GD and Cheesestick, you guys crack me up.

[Kevy Baby]

Oh GD and Cheesestick, you guys crack me up.Yeah, it's pretty Gouda stuff

[Disneyphile]

Oh, this is cheesing me off.

[Gemini Cricket]

I'd love to write for a sitcom or hour long drama. I think it would be fun.
:)

[Alex]

Nope, the Writers are going to come out way ahead. Showrunners are showing unanticipated support, in hopes of ending the strike quickly by shutting down production a lot faster than was expected.

If that support continues beyond the token stage, there will be no new tv shows within a few short weeks. The Producers Alliance cannot hope to end the strike even on the terms the Guild would have settled for beforethe strike.

But on the other side, media consolidation and ownership by megaglobalcorporates means that the movie and TV business tends to be a relatively small part of the overall financial picture. On the one hand this could lead to them caving faster because it isn't that big of a deal but it could also lead to them taking a long strike in stride since it isn't that big of a deal.

As an example in Q3 2007 (http://www.ge.com/files/usa/company/investor/downloads/webcast_10122007/ge_summary_of_operating_segments_10122007.pdf), NBC Universal contributed 8.9% of GEs revenues and 8.6% of the overall profits. News Corp. isn't quite as extreme but still hardly relies on movies and American TV for its survival. But things are even more extreme at Sony.

Admittedly the vast majority of the members of AMPTP make their nut from movies and TV but the big six could practically take a year off and not hurt too much. CBS is probably the worst off in that regard.

[Morrigoon]

Defile: I dunno... can you have an entire TV series dedicated to bacon?

(Oh who'm I kidding, if we can carry an entire thread to over 600+ posts, there's got to be enough for at least the first season, right? right?)

[Gn2Dlnd]

All cudding aside, writing good ain't all that easy. Desperate Housewives, Ugly Betty, Battlestar Galactica, 30 Rock, The Office, Pushing Daisies, Lost, these all have great relationships written in, which is what makes a good show. Compare Pixar's stuff to the latest Dreamworks, and you'll find that the main difference is that you care about the relationships between the characters.
600 one liners about bacon, and, soon to be just as many about falling cows, is diverting, but not good relationship writing. The Smoking Gun is a good example of highly important interweb entertainment making forgettable television.
There's lots of stuff on TV, just not lots of good writing.

[Prudence]

I'd love to write for a sitcom or hour long drama. I think it would be fun.
:)

Speaking of threads merging, I read this as "hour long llama."

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Which is not to say that there aren't good writers with the potential of greatness here on LoT. The Inspiration threads look nothing like a punfest (no offense to punfests; they serve their purpose) - but if you haven't checked them out yet, I highly suggest you do. Jennie and Audra among others... the list of heartfelt, clever pieces of writing (and yes, about relationships) has grown and grown.

[Gemini Cricket]

I would love to write for a sitcom or an hour long llama. I think it would be fun.

[Not Afraid]

Is this damn strike going to effect Project Runway? If so, it must end immediately.

[blueerica]

Well, you know - there could be a sitcom where bacon plays a significant role. They could be breakfast meats manufacturers... pig farmers... workers in a diner that is known around the world for their bacon... you never know. ;)

Hehehe

[Morrigoon]

I was thinking it could be a Food Network show called "Love Me Some Pig", and have it be all around foods made from pork.

[BarTopDancer]

Day 7 of 24 is postponed. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/ap_en_ot/hollywood_labor24;_ylt=AhpgD2IFVmaMZ43848Ix1TFxFb8 C) Looks like Jack will be able to get some more rest before having another very bad day.

[Gemini Cricket]

The Warner Brothers strikers need to organize a little bit. They're sloppy picketers. Too bunchy and too busy talking to each other and gabbing on their cellphones.

[CoasterMatt]

The strikers at Universal have given some people the impression that the strike affects the Theme Park. It has the positive effect of letting more guests see Wisteria Lane, since production is shutdown there now.

[Gemini Cricket]

The Disney picketers are pretty organized. They get into a long line and cross back and forth. Pretty neat. They don't wear the Mickey gloves much any more.

The NBC group is pretty good, too.

From the Burbank facility here you can hear the honking for the Warner Brothers picketers.

[Stan4dSteph]

Day 7 of 24 is postponed. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/ap_en_ot/hollywood_labor24;_ylt=AhpgD2IFVmaMZ43848Ix1TFxFb8 C) Looks like Jack will be able to get some more rest before having another very bad day.MOTHER****ER! Did you see the preview for it? DAMN IT!!!

[BarTopDancer]

MOTHER****ER! Did you see the preview for it?

Nope. But maybe Keifer will do his jail time now and get it over with.

DAMN IT!!!

DRINK!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Office writers on the strike. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hqP0c0_gw)

[Disneyphile]

Wow.

It's like all of Hollywood is shut down.

I'm very torn - I support the stance on this, but I am also thankful that I'm non-union right now, in that this can actually help me get paying work.

Ugh. Personal dilemma. :(

[CoasterMatt]

Wouldn't that be Disney PicketEARs?

[Alex]

I will say it is interesting to see that at least among the people I've talked to up here the response is much the same as for a sports strike.

That everybody involved are whiny people and that they should feel privileged to have the cushy lives of luxury they have and all they have to is provide a few hours entertainment for the masses.

Of course, unlike with a baseball players strike the assumption that everybody involved is megarich is a misapprehension. I think if you asked the average person they'd think that a writer on The Soup is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Even though I know better I'll admit to not really having any idea of how much many people involved make (not that is really matters to the question of whether that amount is fair within the industry). For example, Katherine Hegl's character in Knocked Up is a on-air personality for E! but still lives in the back yard guest house of her sister. That implies not much pay but I have no idea if that is right or not.

[Disneyphile]

Normally, I don't support unions, because I feel that if people are unhappy with their jobs, no one is stopping them from finding a new one.

However, with this, the money is going to the big-wig execs who don't do anything but sit on their asses, planning which new yacht they want to add to their current existing fleet. I do think the writers should be paid for duplication of their work, regardless of the medium in which it is duplicated.

Being self-employed, I would be mighty upset if someone bought a production from me and went to duplicate it on their own, considering I don't charge much to begin with. Now, if I raised my prices, I probably wouldn't care what they do with it. But, I charge about 25% of the normal market prices for services, including post (editing). With that, my clients are usually understanding in buying additional copies from me for $5-$10 each, depending on how they're packaged.

[Kevy Baby]

However, with this, the money is going to the big-wig execs who don't do anything but sit on their asses, planning which new yacht they want to add to their current existing fleet.Why do people think that "big wig execs" do nothing? Yes, they often make more money than seems reasonable (certainly more than you or I), but why does that mean they are lazy and just sit around?

I doubt that there are many people who got into a position of power in a major company without having worked their way there (yes, there are exceptions, especially with nepotism). They have worked their butts off to make things happen and make them happen successfully. Often these people put in tremendous hours. Their jobs are often far less secure than many of the people on strike and they are scrutinized much more than most.

Argue that they make too much money if you want, but don't say they are lazy.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

It's more likely getting funneled into parent companies, anyway.

But no, writers do not make as much as people imagine. Screenwriters sometimes do, depending on their popularity - but the number of those are pretty small. They're picketing for the $30,000 a year staff writers on union cable shows. They're picketing for the people who aren't big-name big-wig writers.

[Disneyphile]

Fair enough, KB. I just get agitated at seeing people buy multiple yachts and "summer homes", where the people who make that opportunity happen for them are barely making their rent or mortgage on their only residence.

There just seems to be no consideration of the "team" aspect to making things happen.

[blueerica]

Now, I forget who got interviewed by one of the channels yesterday, but he's a director who was once a writer. He said it's not even the staff writer who works consistently, but the guy or gal that gets a job here and there when they're available. The people who are just starting out... someone he was just four years prior to today.

[Ghoulish Delight]

My sister gets to cross a picket line, ironically for a meeting about a topic very closely related to what the Office writers were talking about (great clip that was, btw).

She works for a company that makes software that can identify video clips by a sort of video signature. Their initial market was advertisers wanting to monitor broadcast signals and make sure the ads they paid for were aired correctly (in the time they paid for, not cut off, etc.). Recently, they've turned toward the networks as customers and their software's been used to comb YouTube (and other video sites) for copyrighted material to pull. But now they're hoping to change that model and instead of letting the networks know when their shows are on YouTube so they can demand they be taken off, they'll let them know so they can get a cut of the ad revenue that Google sells.

It's a better model for everyone than pulling the videos, and it's something concrete that the writers should be keeping an eye on in terms of the kinds of new-media revenue streams they should be working into their contract.

[swanie]

I think if you asked the average person they'd think that a writer on The Soup is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Even though I know better I'll admit to not really having any idea of how much many people involved make (not that is really matters to the question of whether that amount is fair within the industry). For example, Katherine Hegl's character in Knocked Up is a on-air personality for E! but still lives in the back yard guest house of her sister. That implies not much pay but I have no idea if that is right or not.

Having worked for E! what seems like a lifetime ago....I can completely and totally see Heigl having to live in her sister's guest house. ;)

Unless something had radically changed, most of the writers and production staff make enough to get by, but they won't get rich doing it. When I was there most of the staff was young, eager and just looking for a break into the business. Those are exactly the kind of people that would benefit the most from the new deal.

swanie

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Alas, E!'s writers are non-union.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Alas, E!'s writers are non-union.
They will likely benefit indirectly from any advances the union makes with its contract. In most industries that employ both union and non-union, eventually non-union compensation at least someone mimics union compensation because the employers do need to keep their pay competitive.

[lashbear]

Eisner's got his own point of view on the strike:

Ex-Disney (http://disney.go.com/index) CEO, Michael Eisner, blasted the WGA strike at the Dow Jones/Nielsen Media and Money conference yesterday. According to an article in The Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3ic692fe6f506d121933f96140532bd06f?imw=Y), the former studio head quipped, "For a writer to give up today's money for a nonexistent piece of the future -- they should do it in three years, shouldn't be doing it now -- they are misguided they should not have gone on the strike. I've seen stupid strikes, I've seen less stupid strikes, and this strike is just a stupid strike." He also suggested that the writers weren't placing blame on all responsible parties -- such as Apple -- saying that, "The only real winner here is Steve Jobs. They should be striking up at Cupertino or wherever he is."

:rolleyes:

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Wow, someone's bitter.

[Gemini Cricket]

There were no strikers out at NBC and Disney this morning.
I wonder what was up?
(I didn't go by Warner to see if they were there or not.)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

They're all at Fox.

All of them.

[Gemini Cricket]

They're all at Fox.

All of them.
Really?
Wow!
:)

[Morrigoon]

Why Fox, particularly? Or are they making the rounds?

[Kevy Baby]

Eisner's got his own point of view on the strike:What a freakin' idiot!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hmm, then my sister might have lucked out and not had to actually cross a picket line at the studio she was meeting at today.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, no picketers at Sony either, the last two days. What's up at Fox that demands all the writers in Los Angeles be there?

[Morrigoon]

Maybe they lke the publicity? (it woudl be just like Fox to enjoy it...)

j/k

[Gemini Cricket]

One of the things I adore about the BBC news is when they do things like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7092571.stm). Every so often, they put things in a nutshell for their readers to get everyone up to speed with what's happening instead of assuming everyone is current with the particular event of the moment. It's like a 101 summary of what's up. I like it.


Today, there was one, count 'em, one striker at NBC. Poor guy. There was a truckload of them at Disney.

[BarTopDancer]

Some of the writers for one of the soaps (I think it was Y&R) have gone back to work.

[Snowflake]

Yeah, no picketers at Sony either, the last two days. What's up at Fox that demands all the writers in Los Angeles be there?

Bill O'Reilly?

[mousepod]

My only issue with the BBC article is that it doesn't go into numbers.

The two that resound with me the most is that:
1) the writers' residual on a sale of a DVD is less than a nickel
and
2) the total combined amount that the writers are asking for is less than the average bonus of one of the major studio CEOs.

I'm not a huge union guy... but c'mon people!

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Have you seen the youtube explainer, Why We Fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk)?

[Alex]

I never got around to it, but is it correct that it compares the writer's cut to the retail price of DVDs rather than to the profit margin of DVDs?

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I never got around to it, but is it correct that it compares the writer's cut to the retail price of DVDs rather than to the profit margin of DVDs?

I think you are correct.

[mousepod]

In the music business, artists are paid royalties based on the list price. It's not unheard of - in fact, it's typical.

[Alex]

Yes, it is the reasonable basis for calculating the royalty paid. But in a comparison of what the artist makes versus what the label makes it is profits that is important.

There is a large quantitative difference (if not qualitative) between "writer's make $0.08 on each DVD while the studios make $19.00" and "writer's make $0.08 on each DVD while the studios make $4.75."

I don't know if $4.75 is the right number but I vaguely remember reading somewhere that about 75% of the DVD price goes to overhead. There's also the fact that a studio loses money on an unsold DVD but the writer doesn't.

Not that this makes the writers any more or less on the sight of good and honor. I'm just picky about seeing people use numbers that make sense for the argument being made.

[Ghoulish Delight]

There is a large quantitative difference (if not qualitative) between "writer's make $0.08 on each DVD while the studios make $19.00" and "writer's make $0.08 on each DVD while the studios make $4.75."What about a writers' overhead? Sure they get a check for that $0.08, but that doesn't account for their costs in writing it, while the $4.75 (or whatever the figure is) does account for the studios' cost in producing it. Comparing the $0.08 to either extreme (gross sale or net profit) tells an incomplete story.

[Alex]

That still doesn't make using gross when talking about how money money the studios make off DVDs of any sensible value.

If you want to include writer overhead (though writer's have no overhead specific to the production of a DVD) that effects the $0.08 side but doesn't give any additional value to the gross number.

[Snowflake]

Just got an e from a friend at Universal, strikers in droves.

Are the writers targeting one studio a day in sheer numbers to show strength and unity? I would guess so.

[CoasterMatt]

They're also hiring extras to fill up the lines for the cameras.
I get to see them everyday, and every morning somebody makes a snide remark to me about working at Universal, and every morning I remind them that they're about a block away from the actual studio gate. I just want the strike to be over, so they can go back to writing terrible TV, and getting ripped off by bigwigs.

[Disneyphile]

That's why I don't support most strikes. I don't mind if a picketer wants to tell me his side of the story or what they're striking for, but I've experienced way too many picketers tossing out insults and rude comments that I will purposely cross lines when they do that.

I did just that in the last grocery strike. It was late at night, and I needed a carton of milk. I stopped at the Albertson's just 5 minutes away. On my way out, a guy with a bullhorn decided to shout right in my ear with it, and called me a "fat cow" and then proceeded to "moo" through the horn while I was walking to my car. I was so ticked, that I put the milk in my car, and turned right back around, grabbed a cart, and said, "Thanks for making this my number one place to shop now. That reminds me - I think I need to stock up on more stuff instead of going to the other stores like I've been trying to do this whole time." and I walked right in, and purchased an entire cartload of groceries, and grinned at him on my way out.

[RStar]

What about a writers' overhead? Sure they get a check for that $0.08, but that doesn't account for their costs in writing it, while the $4.75 (or whatever the figure is) does account for the studios' cost in producing it. Comparing the $0.08 to either extreme (gross sale or net profit) tells an incomplete story.
Wouldn't their costs, including overhead, and proffit be made from the original sale of the script? I thought the DVD sales were royalties akin to bonuses, or gravey. I agree they should get a piece of the pie, however. And they deserve it just as much- if not more- than the actors, IMHO.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Extras! I don't get residuals on any of the shows I did. I'm sure with the sale of DVD's and all the repeats that have been on I might've gotten some fairly good cash.

Oh well...

[RStar]

Extras! I don't get residuals on any of the shows I did. I'm sure with the sale of DVD's and all the repeats that have been on I might've gotten some fairly good cash.

Oh well...
I think extras fall under the catagory of "props" which don't get residuals....;)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I know someone who was an accidental scab. But she didn't mean to get involved! And she's not going to do it again.

[Gemini Cricket]

One guy striking in front of NBC again.
Someone should youtube him. It's would make for a funny clip.
:D

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Not the Daily Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRHlpEmr0w&eurl=http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/) is a terrific funny explanation of the incongruent arguments from the media conglomerates.

[CoasterMatt]

I don't think the Writers are gonna get much public sympathy/support if they only picket when there's a TV camera around- I ran into more of them at Starbucks/Carl's Jr. today than at the picket line. They're doing a wonderful job of reinforcing the image that they're a "whiny" strike, kind of like a pro athlete's strike.

[Alex]

They'll get much public sympathy because the press is biased on this one. Every journalist thinks of themselves as a writer. Writer's stick together.

Admittedly, the bias is in the direction I agree with, but I don't think the writer's need to worry about their public presentation unless the strike goes really long and the media has that inevitable realization of "oh, we're slanting things, we must immediately overcompensate in the opposite direction!"

[Gemini Cricket]

I think the sympathy will peak during the holidays. All it will take is a couple of strikers in Santa hats to get the press to take a photo of them.

The lone striker was at NBC again.

Are they all still at Fox?

[innerSpaceman]

Recent polls indicate lots of support for the writers. A Pepperdine poll shows support at 69% and SurveyUSA poll shows it at 63%. Journalists may be writers, but most coverage to date has been pro-producers. It's not working.

The producers received only a smattering of support in those two polls, coming in at 4% and 8%, respectively. This according to today's Variety.



Hmm, oddly there's an insert for Ratatouille in that paper today that has a recipe for Parmesan Crisps on the back. Someone better alert Parmesan Jim. The rat's horning in on his territory.

[Morrigoon]

Oh hell, Giada already did. Or was it Rachel Ray?

[LSPoorEeyorick]

United Hollywood has started a really great campaign called Speechless.

The most recent video confirms what I've always thought: I would listen to Patricia Clarkson read the phone book (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1321306333/bclid1323280446/bctid1328166657).

[Gemini Cricket]

United Hollywood has started a really great campaign called Speechless.

The most recent video confirms what I've always thought: I would listen to Patricia Clarkson read the phone book (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1321306333/bclid1323280446/bctid1328166657).
Wow. My brain went blank for a second on who Patricia Clarkson was. Thank goodness for imdb.

Speechless is getting a lot of buzz around here.
:)

[Chernabog]

Hahaha those are brilliant!!!!!

[Disneyphile]

Actually, the phone book reading is better than some shows these days. ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Actually, the phone book reading is better than some shows these days. ;)
Honestly, I'm a little confused about their point with that one. I mean, if their whole message is, "Entertainment doesn't exist without writers writing scripts," that clip kinda proves otherwise, no?

[Chernabog]

Honestly, I'm a little confused about their point with that one. I mean, if their whole message is, "Entertainment doesn't exist without writers writing scripts," that clip kinda proves otherwise, no?

Well, the whole thing does. But I wouldn't want to watch that ALL the time ;)

[BarTopDancer]

I really like "what's on the page?"

[Moonliner]

As the writers strike enters into it's second calendar year, how is everyone holding up?

I have to say that without the occasional news report on the subject I doubt I'd even know there was a strike. How about you?

[Stan4dSteph]

We'll definitely notice when we have no new shows to watch. However, since I'm moving to France I actually won't feel too bad because I won't miss much. Except for Lost. I am bummed about that. I'll have to catch up with the DVDs.

[Morrigoon]

Haha, that was great.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I heard that Leno etal were back on the air - where's the backlash? I'm not hearing about any.

[Alex]

Backlash from whom? The writers? They'll be picketing Leno/O'Brien and Stewart/Colbert but not Letterman and Ferguson (since Worldwide Pants reached a separate agreement, an option not available to Leno/O'Brien since NBC owns those shows).

I imagine Leno will get the brunt of it since he's in LA and the others are in NY. It'll be interesting to see what the unwritten shows do and how funny they are (and if they're funny they're going to run into charges of being written under the table).

I'm still not clear on exactly what The Colbert Report is going to be like. Leno/O'Brien/Stewart are themselves on the show and call fall back on that. But the Stephen Colbert of the show is a character and one that is, in my opinion, weakest when he's not scripted (such as in the interviews). The Word is out as a segment. Tip of the Hat/Wag of the Finger is out. Threat List. Except for a 5 minute interview at the end, the entire show is and pretty much must be scripted. I can see Stewart massively expanding the interviews but I really don't want to see Colbert doing 20 minute interviews, at least not in character.

[Kevy Baby]

I heard that Leno etal were back on the air - where's the backlash? I'm not hearing about any.Leno and O'Brien go back on the air tonight with picket lines out front (Leno will have Huckabee as a guest tonight and he will have to cross the picket line).

Letterman and Ferguson will be back without picket lines as Letterman's company, Worldwide Pants, reached a separate settlement with the writers, so there will be no picketers (WWP also owns Ferguson's show).

[madmonkeygirl]

Don't even get me started on the trailer for this season of LOST. After 3 full episodes to get resuced off the island "some of the stranded passengers" then to have to go back to the island you spend how much time on? Stupid if you ask me. I could so have written this better than the blasted writers...ugh...not sure i'm gonna watch this season at all...hopefully i'll be working the night it comes back on the air...

[Morrigoon]

My understanding is that they're not holding Leno himself responsible for it, since he's been very supportive of them. But we'll probably see a whole lot of politicians and other non-actors, as they're discouraging members of SAG from appearing on the shows.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the Oscars. It's not like the Academy is who the writers have the grievance against, and most of the dispute involved television and related media, not so much movies. But they it's the most visible platform SAG will have. Will the union encourage members not to show up for the show, even if nominated? It would certainly send a strong message, but that's gotta be a tough decision to make. People like Diablo Colby, writer of Juno who is likely to be nominated, would be in a really difficult position. Who knows if you'll ever have that kind of success again?

[innerSpaceman]

They are denying a waiver for, and will be picketing the Golden Globes in two weeks. Some schools think a better way to send a message is to have tons of acceptance speeches mention the strike and writers' plight, plus not put a damper on something which celebrates and rewards the writers' art.

But, in the end, I have to agree with the current decision. A strike is a strike, and if it is to have teeth, you boycott and picket the most high-profile events and shows. The Globes and Oscars are a BIG revenue stream for the TV networks that air them. It's kind of a drag, but making nominees and presenters cross a picket line is unfortunately part of the war with greedy film and television producers.

[mousepod]

Golden Globes Televised Awards Show Cancelled (http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1579150/story.jhtml)

wow.

[Snowflake]

Well, I echo mousepod here, wow.

I understand the reasoning, most certainly, but wow just the same. All those poor designers, make up people, the crew for the Kodiak (etc.), valet, limo drivers, security, etc., not going to be a good season for them, I guess.

Guess I had better check the netflix queue to load up on nominated films anyway.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think the writers are starting to get the upper hand. Letterman (World Wide Pants) agreed to all of their terms. CBS now has a show in a pivotal time slot with writers and no picket lines. That's gotta put a lot of pressure on the other networks, and the guild now has a leg to stand on when saying their demands are reasonable ("Letterman signed the contract.").

And now this. It's gotta have people shaking in their boots to picture the Oscars going the same way...

[Disneyphile]

That's why I can't stand unions, and will usually cross picket lines.

I'm sorry, but to put others out of work for the strikers' gains is ridiculous and selfish, IMHO.

When the big grocery strike happened, my choices were to cross the lines or drive about 10 miles to a non-union store that didn't even carry everything I needed. Sorry, but I wasn't about to waste my gas money and inconvenience myself because some people had issues with their job. Their problem was not my problem, nor was I going to make it so.

I know I don't hold the popular opinion about it, but I firmly stand by it.

[Alex]

Except almost none of the issues in contention play any role for the late night talk shows. It is very easy to agree to the terms when you don't have to pay any of the money.

For PR purposes it may be too subtle a point (since most people I speak to are barely aware there is even a strike going on) but it is kind of like saying that taxes on orange trees are reasonable because Maine agreed to them. (I'm on the writer's side on these but the Worldwide Pants agreement isn't real evidence of reasonableness; even if the demands were horribly unreasonable they wouldn't effect Letterman much to agree to them).

I don't believe Worldwide Pants currently has any sitcoms on the schedule (Knights of Prosperity was canceled) but does anybody know if the side agreement would apply to their sitcom work or just narrowly applies to the two late night talk shows?

I certainly won't miss the Golden Globes (who are the HFPA and why do I care what movies they think are good?) so I'm all in favor of an annual early January strike.

[Gemini Cricket]

Part of me wonders if Letterman knows something. Like that the writers are going to get what they want...

[Alex]

I doubt he has any particular inside knowledge (more than us, but no more than other minor producers and big WGA members). It just didn't cost him anything much to agree to the terms and the side agreement has a clause saying that when a final agreement is reached Worldwide Pants will automatically switch to it. So it cost him little to agree to everything and ultimately he'll have agreed to even less than that.

[innerSpaceman]

As "wow" as I am, too ... I continue to strongly support the Writer's Strike and I support their decision to picket the show.

Yeah, um, too bad about the limo drivers and party planners and caterers. They don't have any god-given "right" to a big party night, and nominated talent has no similar right to be lavished with kudos for their work.

What's the point of a strike if you let the big targets have a pass? Cancelling the Globes is Big News (big entertainment news anyway) and the "real" jobs lost in the industry as a whole make a mockery of gigs that will be lost for a single awards night.

Yes, the strike has serious economic impacts. D'uh. That's the point. The collateral damage is regrettable, but can't be avoided for its own sake.

[Disneyphile]

Yes, the strike has serious economic impacts. D'uh. That's the point. The collateral damage is regrettable, but can't be avoided for its own sake.I don't like it when it affects other people. Just as the drivers, caterers, etc. have no "right" to work, the strikers don't have a "right" to put others out of jobs either.

When I've worked in "unfair" conditions, I've moved on to a different job or company. I didn't try to make an "impact" by forcing my "misfortune" onto others.

To me, it's a very selfish thing to do.

[Strangler Lewis]

Why do you blame the union? Why don't you blame the studios?

[Kevy Baby]

Why do you blame the union? Why don't you blame the studios?Because it is easier to blame "The Man" and assume the common working folk are innocent victims.

[BarTopDancer]

If the studios had agreed to look at the 'new media' options and the lack of compensation the writers were getting from it instead of pulling "their too bad so sad what always was will always be" card I doubt we'd be where we are today.

Instead, the studios decided that the writers shouldn't get reasonable compensation for their work that was distributed in 'new media' format (while the studios make profit off of it). So the writers aren't going to work. If the writers all found other jobs no one would be left to write the shows.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Whether you are currently a member of a union or not, we all owe a good portion of the high standard of working conditions in America to the union movement. And while there might have been an argument a decade ago that the movement was approaching irrelevancy, in today's climate of conglomeration and near-monopolization in industry-after-industry, the need for a unified voice of the worker is growing strong again. What good is a "I'll just take another job" philosophy when all other jobs are controlled by the same people who forced you to start looking in the first place?

[BarTopDancer]

Unions aren't inherently evil and strikes aren't inherently selfish. It depends what the union is striking for.

[Alex]

I'm not a fan of unions and would be in the camp of thinking they are mostly an idea whose time has passed.

That said, the union structure of Hollywood is the format in which all of the players have agreed to play and it is the structure in which compensation issues are supposed to be worked out.

And yes, it sucks if other people are financially harmed by my decisions but I don't think it is selfish of me to refuse to work for compensation I consider insufficient. Yes, compared to what the average person makes I am pretty rich. And that would be true even if they refused to give me raises and bonuses for three years running. And the fate of the administrative assistant who might be fired if I were to leave the company would not play a role in my decision on whether to stay or not.

[Disneyphile]

So the writers aren't going to work. If the writers all found other jobs no one would be left to write the shows.Um, there are plenty of non-union writers who are just as good as union ones. That's one of the main reasons I believe it's selfish - I have no problem if someone wants to strike, make their voice heard, or whatever they choose to do. But, if someone comes in to happily work the job they're unhappy with, then those non-union "scabs" should have the same "right" to work, and the union folks have a "right" to strike.

What good is a "I'll just take another job" philosophy when all other jobs are controlled by the same people who forced you to start looking in the first place?I've worked for some wonderful companies - my last corporate job was one of them. We were well paid, enjoyed a nice amount of time off, and our managers were very lenient on scheduling around personal issues. (I only quit because it wasn't exactly my career choice. ;))

And yes, it sucks if other people are financially harmed by my decisions but I don't think it is selfish of me to refuse to work for compensation I consider insufficient. That is absolutely not selfish. By all means, people should stand up for themselves. They just shouldn't take others down with 'em, like the non-writing staff for the GG Awards. ;)

I know of someone who has edited a show that the union editors striked. She had to work in a "secret" location to avoid harassment and threats from those who were striking. To me, it is the epitome of selfish to say, "I don't like my job, but I will hurt you if you do my job."

[innerSpaceman]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Disneyphile. Striking is a very important right in this world, maybe now more than ever. And beating the crap out of scabs is an important part of the process. ;)

[Disneyphile]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Disneyphile.Most certainly. :)

And beating the crap out of scabs is an important part of the process. ;)"Scabs" are just people trying to make a living too. ;)

[innerSpaceman]

If they are willing to take the commonly-known risk to bodily harm (at worst) and severe harassment (at best), all the more power to 'em.


But it can't simply be risk-free for anyone to try and replace a striking worker. That would undermine the strike, and - for the sake of ALL workers everywhere - cannot be allowed.

[NirvanaMan]

"Scabs" are just people trying to make a living too. ;)

Agree. That is what capitalism is all about. I would never knock someone for attempting to capitalize on the greed and/or stupidity of others.

[Morrigoon]

If they are willing to take the commonly-known risk to bodily harm (at worst) and severe harassment (at best), all the more power to 'em.


But it can't simply be risk-free for anyone to try and replace a striking worker. That would undermine the strike, and - for the sake of ALL workers everywhere - cannot be allowed.
What do you mean, cannot? In a truly capitalist system, it can. And if there are people around to gladly take their jobs, then they weren't bargaining from a position of strength to begin with.

[innerSpaceman]

Um, there are ALWAYS people willing to take any job for less money. That rush to the bottom will leave ALL of us STARVING.


Sure, they can try to cross my picket line. They'll find a heavy sign embedded in their skull.


I can make myself no clearer.


But, yeah, that's part of capitalism, too.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I'll also have to agree with iSm here - and I also want to note that the writers are striking for their union, but since they're the first to negotiate contracts and challenge the miserable state of affairs, they're not just striking for themselves, but for all of the other industry unions. If they cave now, then the DGA, and the SAG, and all of the other unions, will have trouble fighting. If the WGA keeps holding on, then all of the people who are currently out of work may have an easier time getting a fairer contract.

And there's no doubt about it - the non-union writers aren't treated fairly in the industry. Ask the reality writers; they're underpaid terribly and they don't have any way to fight the system. The writers who are scabbing are being underpaid, too.

[NirvanaMan]

Sure, they can try to cross my picket line. They'll find a heavy sign embedded in their skull.


I can make myself no clearer.



Murder is a crime. Working is not. At least not in America.

Capitalism does not give one the right to murder, maim or otherwise harm those with whom you disagree. But alas, this is a shining example of the union mentality that I saw first hand crippling the automotive industry in this country.

[Alex]

Um, there are ALWAYS people willing to take any job for less money. That rush to the bottom will leave ALL of us STARVING.

With unskilled labor, perhaps. But not so much with skilled labor. There will always be someone willing to write TV shows for less money than the people who are currently doing it. However, at some point the studios will not be able to find anybody capable of writing TV shows for the money they're offering. And then they'll increase their offer.

That's how the jobs got to be reasonably high paying in the first place. That's why I'm really not a big fan of unions for skilled workers (for unskilled or minimally skilled labor I still see an important role) and is why I essentially said "**** off" the one time I worked somewhere that had talk of organizing project managers (I'm perfectly comfortable negotiating my own wages/benefits/employment on my own efforts and merits).

But, like I said, Hollywood as an entity decided guild unions were the way to go, so this is how the game gets played. If you create a secondary business dependent on the participation of the guild unions, strikes like these have to be part of your business plan as sucky as it may be.

[NirvanaMan]

Um, there are ALWAYS people willing to take any job for less money. That rush to the bottom will leave ALL of us STARVING.

Sure. But they won't get the gig unless they are just as good as those currently employed who are making more money. If you excel at what you do, regardless of the industry, then you can command a price premium in the market. That is the beauty of capitalism. All things generally have a way of sorting themselves out in the free market, including employment.

If there are a slew or writers that are just as good and can earn for their corporation a similar amount of revenue for less compensation, that means that the current staff is overpaid. If not, then said employer will be forced to pay more for more experience or more talent.
Not everything needs to be regulated.

I'm not sure what experience you have in hiring individuals, but if you have any then I am sure you have experienced this first hand. Personally speaking, there are lots of people willing to take a job I have in my department for a lot less money than I am expecting to pay. However, I need talented and experienced people working for me, therefore, I need to budget enough to pay for it. I can't expect to get someone with uber skills and 15 years experience in the industry and pay them the going rate of someone fresh out of college. Wise talented people already understand this and exploit it to their benefit. People are not commodities. They should not be treated as such.

The value of the unions at the dawn of the industrial revolution clearly cannot be understated. However, their worth and power in todays business environment is of significant concern and should be reevaluated. Not to say they should all be abolished (though I would dance a happy dance if that were to happen) but perhaps they have become to powerful and too demanding for their own good.

In closing, you will only be STARVING if you suck at what you do or are lazy. So long as you are hard-working, talented, and your skill set is deemed to have value to an employer then you will continue to be well compensated. In fact, you will almost always be worth more to an alternative employer than your current one, within reason.

Fear not.

[Strangler Lewis]

That is the beauty of capitalism. All things generally have a way of sorting themselves out in the free market, including employment.


If the market were entirely free, there'd be no need for antitrust laws. The government may not care, but price fixing is alive and well.

And now, Steinbeck:

"And the migrants streamed in on the highways and their hunger was in their eyes, and their need was in their eyes . . .. When there was work for a man, 10 men fought for it -- fought with a low wage. If that fella'll work for 30 cents, I'll work for 25.

"If he'll take 25, I'll do it for 20.

"No, me, I'm hungry. I'll work for 15. I'll work for food."

Perhaps not entirely apt when the subject is Hollywood writers, but I always liked it.

Oh, and on the violence subject, strikers have endured no end of violence at the hands of the owners. Don't make me start singing "Joe Hill."

[Sohrshah]

I wonder though... would being a scab writer get you blacklisted in the future? Probably.

I would imagine so, yes! Unless you used a psuedonym... then you could still try to write under your own name later.

[Alex]

Well, John Stewart was pretty obviously written last night. He may have ad libbed more but you can talk to a sequence of graphics (some static, some with timed changes) without having done some writing in advance.

Colbert seemed a little more spontaneous but I have to wonder what he is going to do in a couple days when he can't just fill the first 15 minutes with strike jokes and has to start talking about other things. Jokes about not knowing what you're going to say are going to get old pretty fast.

Also thought Stewart, when talking about the WGA making deals with some people but not with others, was a bit disingenuous in not mentioning that to give him and Colbert a deal would require the WGA letting one of the major producers (Viacom) begin a process of piecemeal bargaining. There is a big difference between making a deal with Worldwide Pants (total current productions: 2) and Viacom.

[Sohrshah]

And yes, it sucks if other people are financially harmed by my decisions but I don't think it is selfish of me to refuse to work for compensation I consider insufficient. Yes, compared to what the average person makes I am pretty rich. And that would be true even if they refused to give me raises and bonuses for three years running. And the fate of the administrative assistant who might be fired if I were to leave the company would not play a role in my decision on whether to stay or not.

Administrative Assistants are not fired because their bosses leave. They often make more money than you think they do, and when you leave, guess who's keeping your things in order for the next guy? :cool:

[Morrigoon]

Visible mojo to NM :snap: since I'm supposed to spread it around first

[Alex]

Yes, sometimes administrative assistants get fired when someone leaves (because people aren't always replaced). And I know how much they make and what they do because I used to be one.

But that is beside the point I was making, which is: when making decisions about adequate compensation for your work, the secondary dependencies who may be affected by your decision not to work aren't really a factor.

[Ghoulish Delight]

That is the beauty of capitalism. All things generally have a way of sorting themselves out in the free market, including employment.
[SNIP]
People are not commodities. They should not be treated as such.
Umm, huh? Those two statements are kinda contradictory, aren't they? By saying, "Let the market sort it out" you are precisely suggesting that people should be treated as commodities.

[Sohrshah]

Yes, sometimes administrative assistants get fired when someone leaves (because people aren't always replaced). And I know how much they make and what they do because I used to be one.

But that is beside the point I was making, which is: when making decisions about adequate compensation for your work, the secondary dependencies who may be affected by your decision not to work aren't really a factor.

Point taken, though in my experience if someone is not being replaced, the company is reorganizing or downsizing, and the admins are usually among the first to be let go (excepting high level admins, who are sometimes the last)

I agree with you that when making decisions for yourself, the collateral damage cannot be a factor, though my tendencies towards compassion would make that a very difficult decision. I don't think I would sleep well at night knowing that my decision is negatively affecting someone else. Simultaneously, I have never been in a life situation where I could AFFORD to be out of work for weeks and weeks. I wonder how hard this strike is on writers who don't make 100K+ a year? I imagine the union subsidizes them to some extent, but it can't be nearly what they were making before...

[NirvanaMan]

If the market were entirely free, there'd be no need for antitrust laws. The government may not care, but price fixing is alive and well.


Sure, which is why I used the term "generally" as opposed to language that would be more absolute in nature. But generally, I believe the government needs to butt out of such things as well. In time the market generally finds a way. There are of course exceptions, especially prevalent at the dawn of the prior century.

There are exceptions to every rule, but they are just that. I challenge anyone to find anything that is perfect in life outside of the following:

1967 Corvette Stingray convertible with a 427 and side pipes
Boiled Maine lobster fresh off the boat eaten at a picnic table out of a paper basket with lemon and melted butter
Boobies
Tacos
Fireflies
That which is the "Glorious Maximus"

[Cadaverous Pallor]

There are exceptions to every rule, but they are just that. I challenge anyone to find anything that is perfect in life outside of the following:


1967 Corvette Stingray convertible with a 427 and side pipes

That which is the "Glorious Maximus":eek: Mentioned in the same breath as the Stingray?? :eek:

[NirvanaMan]

Umm, huh? Those two statements are kinda contradictory, aren't they? By saying, "Let the market sort it out" you are precisely suggesting that people should be treated as commodities.

No, I'm not at all. I can't even see the correlation. My opinion is quite the opposite in fact.

Unless you are suggesting that the only items traded or dealt with in a free market are commodity goods.

[BarTopDancer]

I challenge anyone to find anything that is perfect in life outside of the following:


Boiled Maine lobster fresh off the boat eaten at a picnic table out of a paper basket with lemon and melted butter


Change that to boiled Nova Scotia lobster and your list will be golden.

Crap. Now I want lobster!

[JWBear]

Umm, huh? Those two statements are kinda contradictory, aren't they? By saying, "Let the market sort it out" you are precisely suggesting that people should be treated as commodities.

Unfortunately, the employees of many big corporations can only wish they were treated as well as commodities.

[Strangler Lewis]

Boobies?

The word, sir, is "tits."

I agree with the part about the lemon and melted butter.

And the picnic.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

The word, sir, is "tits."


I prefer "dirty pillows" or "happy bags."

[Ghoulish Delight]

No, I'm not at all. I can't even see the correlation. My opinion is quite the opposite in fact.

Unless you are suggesting that the only items traded or dealt with in a free market are commodity goods.Perhaps not "commodity" in the strict sense of no quality differentiation, however I dislike the concept of treating people's livelihoods as so much merchandise to be bought and sold at the whim of supply and demand. Sure, an employee may hold a modicum of power in the deal with the ability to walk away for a better deal, however that's not a luxury that everyone can afford and, as I mentioned earlier, industry is becoming more and more consolidated, whittling away options and imbalancing power towards those making the salary decisions. Unionization provides a check against that trend.

[Morrigoon]

Unionization doesn't help independent contractors much, which is what many companies are turning to in order to release themselves from any obligation to care for their workers.

[Sohrshah]

Unionization doesn't help independent contractors much, which is what many companies are turning to in order to release themselves from any obligation to care for their workers.

And in turn, contractors and employees alike lack loyalty. I think turnover rates would be sky high if recommendations were not still such a big part of the hiring process - always the hardest part for me!

[Kevy Baby]

Boobies?

The word, sir, is "tits."Not around these parts. The word is "Boobies"

I prefer "dirty pillows" or "happy bags."Hooters
Gazambas
Sweater Puppies

[NirvanaMan]

however I dislike the concept of treating people's livelihoods as so much merchandise to be bought and sold at the whim of supply and demand.


Ah well then this is a point upon which we can most assuredly disagree good sir. I believe in personal responsibility in all things, including the control of ones livelihood. I don't believe it is up to the collective, society, government or unions to protect me or anyone in such things. It is up to the individual to ensure their skills and talents with which they chose to pursue a career are kept fresh and relevant enough to have value to an employer who will compensate them at a level commensurate with the expectations of said individuals lifestyle of choosing.

It's not so much a matter of treating people in such a way as it is in people bettering themselves in the pursuit of happiness be it inner fulfillment or material goods or experiences. Instead of waiting for someone to give you what you feel it is you need or deserve, it is the individuals responsibility to earn it and take it. If that is not an option with your current employer than one should seek alternative options.

Back to the commodity point briefly. I would argue that above most other forces in the employment world, it is unions that commodities individuals. Therefore, the beef should perhaps be with them. The unions don't negotiate on an individuals behalf (though they can defend one in certain proceedings) but rather negotiate and arbitrate for the masses. They roll everyone up to their job title be it writer, Welder I, Chassis Sub-Assembler or what have you. It is precisely this commoditization that in the case of unskilled labor removes the incentive to excel. I don't believe this is necessarily the same case with skilled talent, but the argument could still be made I am quite sure.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Sweater Puppies

That is my new favorite! I believe I'm making a very valuable contribution to this thread. My intellectual prowess is astounding!

[JWBear]

Ah well then this is a point upon which we can most assuredly disagree good sir. I believe in personal responsibility in all things, including the control of ones livelihood. I don't believe it is up to the collective, society, government or unions to protect me or anyone in such things. It is up to the individual to ensure their skills and talents with which they chose to pursue a career are kept fresh and relevant enough to have value to an employer who will compensate them at a level commensurate with the expectations of said individuals lifestyle of choosing.

It's not so much a matter of treating people in such a way as it is in people bettering themselves in the pursuit of happiness be it inner fulfillment or material goods or experiences. Instead of waiting for someone to give you what you feel it is you need or deserve, it is the individuals responsibility to earn it and take it. If that is not an option with your current employer than one should seek alternative options.

Back to the commodity point briefly. I would argue that above most other forces in the employment world, it is unions that commodities individuals. Therefore, the beef should perhaps be with them. The unions don't negotiate on an individuals behalf (though they can defend one in certain proceedings) but rather negotiate and arbitrate for the masses. They roll everyone up to their job title be it writer, Welder I, Chassis Sub-Assembler or what have you. It is precisely this commoditization that in the case of unskilled labor removes the incentive to excel. I don't believe this is necessarily the same case with skilled talent, but the argument could still be made I am quite sure.

With all due respect, hogwash!

Companies nowadays want one thing, the cheapest labor they can find. They have no interest, whatsoever, in your personal fulfillment. Having the proper skills and talents, no matter how up to date they are, will not guarantee good wages for you if there is someone who can do it for less pay. Corporations don’t give a damn about their employees, only profit.

Unions aren’t perfect, but they are a hell of a sight better than giving in to the mega corps, and becoming the virtual slaves they would have us be.

[Kevy Baby]

Companies nowadays want one thing, the cheapest labor they can find. They have no interest, whatsoever, in your personal fulfillment. Having the proper skills and talents, no matter how up to date they are, will not guarantee good wages for you if there is someone who can do it for less pay. Corporations don’t give a damn about their employees, only profit.With all due respect, hogwash!

I deal with FAR too many people whose only interest is to see how little they can get away with in their jobs. Far too few people are held personally responsible. And I believe that this is MUCH truer on the employee level than it is on the upper management level.

I have experienced very few people who, when they make an effort to make themselves valuable to their employers, are not compensated. Just showing up is not of value to an employer - actually using your brain is. No, it is not a guarantee, but it is certainly gives one a MUCH higher probability of success. In the industry I am in (the printing industry: one of the largest in terms of sales volume in the US and the world), there is and has been a severe shortage of skilled employees. Consequently, the people who DO have the skills in their respective fields are well compensated. Those who chose to not keep their skills up-to-date are finding themselves making less and having a harder time finding work.

The laws on the books today are very much to the benefit of the employee. The employer is so handcuffed today, it makes it extremely difficult to "abuse" an employee in any way.

Most employees don't give a crap about their employers. They would leave at the first chance they got.

Would you pay the same price for a lower quality item?
Would you take a job that pays less if everything else is the same?

[Not Afraid]

I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. Writers and tits. Strikes and boobies. Is there a connection?

[Kevy Baby]

I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. Writers and tits. Strikes and boobies. Is there a connection?Yeah, I have been enjoying the dichotomy!

[Strangler Lewis]

Kevy, I agree that many employees are as you say. However, I disagree that the laws strongly favor employees. While there are surely cases where people claim discrimination where none exists, my sense is that there are far more cases that are ignored by people who don't want to carry the stigma of having sued their employer.

[Moonliner]

I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. Writers and tits. Strikes and boobies. Is there a connection?

Ultimately just about everything is somehow connected to tits and/or boobies.


isn't it?

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Some writers have tits...

[Pirate Bill]

I have worked for a company that put profits over workers and that company is currently failing. It's suffering from one downsize after another. There is severely poor morale. Everyone is overworked and underpaid. Those who wise up to how poorly they are being treated and feel they can find something better are leaving. I left after 1 year employment there. When I tried to renegotiate my wages they tried to convince me I was being paid what should be expected for my level of experience and that I wouldn't find better anywhere else. I'm positive they are telling the same lies to everyone else. Fortunately I knew better and left.

I'm currently working for another company that appreciates skill and knows how to compensate fairly. They know they need to pay well to keep the skill from leaving. I'm now getting paid more than what I was asking my last employer for.

Seeking the lowest price over quality is a recipe for disaster. You really do get what you pay for.

That goes for boobies too.

[Morrigoon]

GD, NM, I think we can find some middle ground here. In a perfect capitalist economy, where everyone has all the information they need about pricing, their own personal value, etc., there is no need for unions. However, since it is nearly impossible for everyone to have all the information available to them, people make choices that they "logically" shouldn't, because they don't know that someone out there will pay/treat them better. The companies, likewise, do not always know that they're underpaying, and certainly if people who don't know any better are willing to work for a wage, then the companies have no motivation to pay more.

I guess Unions are the market's attempts to right itself.

Not saying I like unions, but I can see the role they play in trying to even the score.

[Kevy Baby]

That goes for boobies too.Amen brutha!

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't endorse unionization for all situations. But in industries where the majority of the hiring decision is funneled into a very small pool of tight-knit players, it becomes the only tool available to the worker.

[blueerica]

I had a business law professor explain it as the difference between tigers and kittens. Some people are more aggressive than others, and likely don't need the kind of help. More nurturing professions, such as nursing and teaching, often benefit the most from having these. Without a strong union presence.. let's be honest.. many of them would roll over because they care so much about the people they're taking care of. Many creatives have the same problem too -- and until someone points out that there's something they're getting screwed on, many would gladly continue just doing what they love without seeking greater benefit.

I don't consider myself pro-union, nor do I consider myself anti-union. I just see it as just the way things are. There are many aspects to unionization that I don't care for, especially how long and arduous negotiations can be, the whole "vote this way" attitude - but there are others that are positive, bringing voices to people that might not always speak up.

I really like the way that LSPE put it, for I think that's a huge part of the issue on why this is taking so long.

I'm going to be doing pretty well for the duration of the strike as I now have about 150 movies I haven't watched before sitting on shelves to my right. Plus, there are probably a bajillionty awesome classic movies I have yet to see.

Oh, and I've got a kitteh.

[NirvanaMan]

I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. Writers and tits. Strikes and boobies. Is there a connection?

So long as I am involved in the discourse, yes.

[Prudence]

There's also an assumption here that those in charge of hiring decisions care about the long-term cost/benefit to the company. In my experience that isn't the case.

The last time I worked for a company during layoffs, the financial wizards literally picked the 4 employees earning the highest salaries because it would have the biggest immediate effect on the bottom line and therefore benefit the financial wizards in the short term. I've been on hiring committees where the most qualified candidate, who would have been a tremendous asset, was rejected in favor of someone who would do a so-so job, but cost a lot less. Heck, in the past few months I've listened to my boss tell me how lucky they are to have someone as skilled as yours truly doing what I do for the salary they pay me.

It's my experience that price trumps quality most of the time. Some might call it the Walmart effect. The benefit to the bottom line can be admired on a spreadsheet right away, while the detrimental effects of lesser skill can take longer to manifest. (And many managers figure that by that time they'll have advanced out of the responsibility zone.)

[Gemini Cricket]

All I can say is that everytime I pass the CBS, WB and Disney strikers I think the same thing: "Not a good-looking one in the bunch." Call me shallow but, hey, we all see what we want to see or don't see.
:D

[Ghoulish Delight]

All I can say is that everytime I pass the CBS, WB and Disney strikers I think the same thing: "Not a good-looking one in the bunch." Call me shallow but, hey, we all see what we want to see or don't see.
:D
Hey, why do you think they're writing, not acting?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

You're all right, you're all wrong, everything is true and false at the same time to some degree. Some companies strive for excellence in their employees, some look for inexpensive yet crappy labor. Some unions do great work, some are extorionists. Some strikers deserve to be canned, some are pleading for fair treatment. Saying that's it's all one way or all the other way is, with all due respect, hogwash. It's all very depressing. Someone bring me some drugs.

[Gemini Cricket]

Hey, why do you think they're writing, not acting?
lol! :D
"You have a face for radio." - That's a quote from a film. I don't know which one...

[LSPoorEeyorick]

It's Quiz Show.

[Capt Jack]

oh wow...is this still going on?

:p