1? Meh. 2? Humm, 3? Wait a sec, 4? OK problem...

[Moonliner]

We are now up to FOUR (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/fourth-undersea-cable-cut-near-uae-suspicions-rise/) undersea cables being mysteriously cut. While not wanting to seem alarmist, this is getting suspicious.

So what do you think:

A) Eh, it's just coincidence

B) It's terrorists I tell ya, terrorists

C) It's them USofA black Ops folks. They're tapping into the cables and not sealing them back up correctly.

D) Whales fight back!

E) Could you explain the difference between B and C?

[Alex]

Seems unlikely to be a coincidence but beyond that I have absolutely no idea.

[BarTopDancer]

It's the megaladons.

[cirquelover]

I'll have to agree with Alex. That many cables seems way too much for a coincidence. Can't they tell if they were sliced with a sharp object versus wear and tear from the ocean floor?
I wouldn't think terrorists would slice their own communication lines, but then again what do I really know about terrorists? Mostly what my government tells me;)

[Alex]

It's possible they haven't even seen the site of the breaks yet to make guesses as to cause. If you're interested in how they fix these things, this article (http://www.slate.com/id/2183693/) might be of interest.

[scaeagles]

I doubt terrorists would have the necessary tech to cut such cables, but then again I have no idea how deep he portion of the cables were that were damaged.

Cables have been submerged in the oceans for a long time without having wear and tear issues, and while I suppose that the cabling could be substandard, I doubt it.

Suspicious indeed, but I really have no thoughts about who would be behind it or why.

[cirquelover]

Thanks Alex, that was very interesting.

[Kevy Baby]

It was me: I did it.

[Moonliner]

Cables have been submerged in the oceans for a long time without having wear and tear issues, and while I suppose that the cabling could be substandard, I doubt it.


The first two cables cut were latest, greatest so age is probably not a factor.

I doubt terrorists would have the necessary tech to cut such cables



A grappling hook, A few thousand feet of rope and an acetylene torch? Not terribly hard to come by.

[Alex]

It occurs to me that if there is malicious intent behind it that the really mean thing to do would be to make two cuts, several miles apart and then drag the segment away (this would be more cable than the repair ships have on hand). And also drag the cut ends away so that they are harder to find.

[Kevy Baby]

A grappling hook, A few thousand feet of rope and an acetylene torch? Not terribly hard to come by.Nope. I just used a hacksaw (although it did take about three blades on each cable).

[Moonliner]

That's it!

Kevy, in a boat with the Hacksaw! Colonel Mustard is innocent!

[Disneyphile]

I blame terrorist whales.

It really brings new depth to the "war on terror". I have this sinking feeling that whales will start taking hostages, according to the audible blubber that has been intercepted.

I swear this world is becoming quite the dive.

[scaeagles]

Well, again, how deep are those cables? Fishing with a grappling hook and rope sounds like a whole bunch of trial and error if the cable are several hundred feet down. Of course cutting them isn't the problem....getting them to cut seems to be the issue.

[Disneyphile]

Well, again, how deep are those cables? Fishing with a grappling hook and rope sounds like a whole bunch of trial and error if the cable are several hundred feet down. Of course cutting them isn't the problem....getting them to cut seems to be the issue.Not too hard, really. If you know the approximate location and the direction the cable runs (say north-south), then drop a grappling hook to the sea floor and drag it east-west until you hook it.

They need to start looking for suspicious boats carrying mass amounts of rope and a grappling hook. But, most ships do carry stuff like that, so it would be really hard to catch the culprit(s).

[Scrooge McSam]

Hmmm If I wanted to re-direct internet traffic for an entire region through another location where there were listening devices located, how would I do it?

How how how?

It is a puzzler.

[Not Afraid]

I didn't know we were up to 4! Suspicious indeed!

[Moonliner]

Hmmm If I wanted to re-direct internet traffic for an entire region through another location where there were listening devices located, how would I do it?

How how how?

It is a puzzler.

Naww that can't be it. The main place getting extra traffic routed through it due to the cuts is the USA......

[€uroMeinke]

I'm just pleased that grappling hooks are involved

[Moonliner]

Well, again, how deep are those cables? Fishing with a grappling hook and rope sounds like a whole bunch of trial and error if the cable are several hundred feet down. Of course cutting them isn't the problem....getting them to cut seems to be the issue.

Typically the cables are buried in a meter deep trench out to a depth of ~1000 feet. After that it's just laying on the floor of the ocean.




Note: "Depth" makes a great hangman word. No one ever gets it.

[BarTopDancer]

So apparently the country it affects the most is Iran.

Not sure if it will effect India and all those outsourced call centers.

So it's either our government, Israels government or disgruntled IT employees.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Sounds like a botched Ivy Bells (http://www.specialoperations.com/Operations/ivybells.html)

Why go out in the middle of the ocean when you could follow the cable on land?

[BarTopDancer]

Maybe the Others cut it

http://www.losthatch.com/images%5Cscreen_captures%5CS1E09_Sayid_Cable.jpg

[cirquelover]

That's it, BTD solved the mystery! Visible mojo, that was a good one!

[Mousey Girl]

I was thinking aliens from the Abyss...

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Visible Sayiid mojo

[Kevy Baby]

Is that a Lost character? Cuz it's going right over my head.

[JWBear]

Maybe there are 4 islands out there with castaway professors on them.

[BarTopDancer]

Is that a Lost character? Cuz it's going right over my head.

Yes. That is Sayid with an underwater cable that he found. It goes to the Looking Glass.

[Morrigoon]

Naww that can't be it. The main place getting extra traffic routed through it due to the cuts is the USA......
I believe that may be the implication

[Snowflake]

It occurs to me that if there is malicious intent behind it that the really mean thing to do would be to make two cuts, several miles apart and then drag the segment away (this would be more cable than the repair ships have on hand). And also drag the cut ends away so that they are harder to find.

Stop giving Kevy ideas.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Well, the Tagruato deep-sea drilling company (http://tagruato.jp/index2.php) has been having troubles of late. Seems a likely link:

Our newest and brightest oil rigging development, Chuai Station, was attacked by a terrorist environment group called Tidowave. They released a series of explosions on the station, causing the loss of life and bringing the rig down into its knees. Tagruato has faced threats from this group for many years and has, with the help of our friends in the police forces, fought off many prior attacks. This blow, however, was too strong to miss us. The Chuai Station was damaged.

Link to news report (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfTWm1nCgLc).

[Capt Jack]

hacksaws? hooks and cables?? oh please. a decent GPS, 1 remote control submersible with a camera or two and some C4...


you could hide that in a rowboat

[Jazzman]

Duh, haven't you guys learned anything? Obviously it was George Bush who did it and now Michael Moore is going to have to make a shockingly revealing documentary about Bush's ties to extremist underwater cable cutting monkeys, followed by an enlightening Al Gore documentary warning us about the dangers of cable warming and catastrophic fiber optic change. It might even be so bad that Sean Penn will have to get a photographer and a row boat and paddle out to repair the cables himself!

Damn you George Bush! Damn you to hell!!!!

[JWBear]

I have to admit... that was kinda funny.

[Not Afraid]

I was probably feeling - or hearing - the effects of increased activity on remining cables when I talked to Amazon support in India on Sunday. Not only was the connection VERY bad (like in the old days when you got an overseas call) but the hold music was Indian and the CS guy asked if he could hold me for a second.

[Ghoulish Delight]

and the CS guy asked if he could hold me for a second.
Wow, yeah, the slow porn access is making 'em kinda desperate.

[Moonliner]

Another Day, Another cable. The total now stands at Five. (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/02/06/1431206#)

http://www.ilovebonnie.net/cablecuts.jpg

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wow.

[cirquelover]

This is getting kind of freaky. Are they trying to cut all incoming communications, besides phones I would guess?! How much can they redirect before it all just comes to a screeching halt?!

[BarTopDancer]

crazy!

[Kevy Baby]

Another Day, Another cable. The total now stands at Five. (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/02/06/1431206#)

http://www.ilovebonnie.net/cablecuts.jpgDid anyone else notice that Turkey is spelled Turkiye on this map? It appears to be a regional spelling rather than a typo (they have "Turkey" right under it). Just something I noticed.

They also have a different spelling of Greece, but I do not feel like hunting down those characters.

[Moonliner]

Did anyone else notice that Turkey is spelled Turkiye on this map? It appears to be a regional spelling rather than a typo (they have "Turkey" right under it). Just something I noticed.

They also have a different spelling of Greece, but I do not feel like hunting down those characters.

This is the website (http://www.ilovebonnie.net/2008/02/06/apparently-ships-can-drag-anchors-from-egypt-to-malaysia/)I pulled the map from (it was linked to from the slashdot article)

[BarTopDancer]

These are all logical explanations for this:

* U.S. Government
* Israeli Government
* Aliens
* Underwater Monsters
* The Cloverfield Monster
* Rudy Giuliani

[Moonliner]

I like this guys thinking:


“The idea is, you cut the cable at point ‘A’, and make it look like it was an accident (ship anchor, etc). Then, before they fix the cable, you trot on down the cable a few (tens of) miles to point ‘B’ and cut the cable there, too. But now you splice in a repeater that copies everything sent over that cable and sends it …to you! When the cable is fixed at the original spot, comm traffic starts up, and no one is the wiser.”

[Kevy Baby]

Damnit; they are letting everyone in on what I was doing :mad:

[BarTopDancer]

Damnit; they are letting everyone in on what I was doing :mad:

You're the Cloverfield monster?

[Kevy Baby]

These are all logical explanations for this:

* U.S. Government
* Israeli Government
* Aliens
* Underwater Monsters
* The Cloverfield Monster
* Rudy Giuliani You forgot Chuck Norris.




.

[Kevy Baby]

You're the Cloverfield monster?No. I am a sock puppet for Rudy Giuliani.

[Disneyphile]

I hope this doesn't mean something massive is coming. Sounds like a mob scenario - they create distractions for a little while and then make their big hit.

[Alex]

Did anyone else notice that Turkey is spelled Turkiye on this map? It appears to be a regional spelling rather than a typo (they have "Turkey" right under it). Just something I noticed.

Türkiye is the Turkish spelling of Turkey. Notice that Greece, China, and Thailand are also labeled in their native languages. Why they're the only three to get such treatment I have no idea.

As for it being an effort to tap those lines, that doesn't make sense to me. They could easily be tapped elsewhere and if the owning companies were involved (as the article implies) then they could probably do it in such a way to have no unexplained downtime.

But what do I know. I still think we landed on the moon so I'm obviously credulous.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Coincidentally (or not), I've been having slow interwebs for a few days. Today it didn't want to load e-mail.

So, if the tubes collapse, and take celphones with them, how fast can we revert back to landline, letters, and Indian runners? And when the mandatory digital switchover happens with television, and this scenario occurs, how do we disseminate information?

srsly. I'm askeard.

[Moonliner]

Coincidentally (or not), I've been having slow interwebs for a few days. Today it didn't want to load e-mail.

So, if the tubes collapse, and take celphones with them, how fast can we revert back to landline, letters, and Indian runners? And when the mandatory digital switchover happens with television, and this scenario occurs, how do we disseminate information?

srsly. I'm askeard.

Radio, DirecTV, Newspapers, Satellite Phones, XM, Sirius.... There are a lot of ways to get information out.

Also even if every single undersea cable was cut it would still not "collapse" the tubes. Here in the USofA things would be fine. In fact performance might even improve if all the traffic from those foreign devils downloading naughty photos of our women was blocked.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Well, radio (for now), and newspapers aren't digital, although a newspaper is hardly instant and late-breaking. My concern gets raised over things like the NSA having secret rooms in ATT and such. A narrowing of the information pipeline, if you will, that can be easily controlled. I'm not worried about the foreign devils as much as I'm afraid of the homegrown ones.

[Moonliner]

Well, radio (for now), and newspapers aren't digital, although a newspaper is hardly instant and late-breaking. My concern gets raised over things like the NSA having secret rooms in ATT and such. A narrowing of the information pipeline, if you will, that can be easily controlled. I'm not worried about the foreign devils as much as I'm afraid of the homegrown ones.

I'm having trouble following you on this one...

Are you worried about:

A) The collapse of the Internet and/or other means of communications.
B) The monitoring of your communications by entities foreign or domestic
C) The Clovefield Monster?

[blueerica]

I am worried about the collapse of teh intrawebs and the Cloverfield monster.... so?

[Kevy Baby]

This is the website (http://www.ilovebonnie.net/2008/02/06/apparently-ships-can-drag-anchors-from-egypt-to-malaysia/)I pulled the map from (it was linked to from the slashdot article)I noticed (for whatever it's worth) that in the comments section, one of the responders put:
First off, only four cables have been cut. The other was powered down for some reason.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I'm having trouble following you on this one...

Are you worried about:

A) The collapse of the Internet and/or other means of communications.
B) The monitoring of your communications by entities foreign or domestic
C) The Clovefield Monster?

Teh "funny" answer: All of them!

The real answer: Not "A", but close. The control of the Internet and/or other means of communications, by enemies both foreign and domestic. I don't think there's enough manpower to monitor everything, therefore, just control the flow.

[BarTopDancer]

But what happens when the Cloverfield monster and the Lost monster meet. And what if they... shudder... mate?

[Gn2Dlnd]

There's a LoT monster?!?

[Moonliner]

There's a LoT monster?!?

He's (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/member.php?u=34&highlight=monster) kinda hard to miss.

[Gn2Dlnd]

And what if they... shudder... mate?

Wha' if they shudder, mate? Don' monsters 'ave the same righ' as any of us to a weaverproof 'ome? Oi!

[JWBear]

Coincidentally (or not), I've been having slow interwebs for a few days. Today it didn't want to load e-mail.

So, if the tubes collapse, and take celphones with them, how fast can we revert back to landline, letters, and Indian runners? And when the mandatory digital switchover happens with television, and this scenario occurs, how do we disseminate information?

srsly. I'm askeard.

Via the fastest means of communication known to man... The office grapevine.

[Moonliner]

Wha' if they shudder, mate? Don' monsters 'ave the same righ' as any of us to a weaverproof 'ome? Oi!

Believe it or not, this is not the first time this subject of monster reproductive rights (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=6176&highlight=KevyTheLotMonster) has come up here at lot.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Oi! Wha' reproductin? Oim talkin' abou' puttin' up shudders ta keep ou' drafts!

[Kevy Baby]

He's (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/member.php?u=34&highlight=monster) kinda hard to miss.Hey!

Believe it or not, this is not the first time this subject of monster reproductive rights (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=6176&highlight=KevyTheLotMonster) has come up here at lot.HEY!!!

The second one because I saw the "highlight" text

[Moonliner]

Hey!

HEY!!!

The second one because I saw the "highlight" text

Oh yeah, and speaking of Hey!'s

I just noticed the typo in your second tag line. It makes me look bad. Could you fix that? Thanks.

[Moonliner]

Damn it! I really hate it when the voice of reason (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/who-cut-the-cab.html)mucks up a perfectly good conspiracy theory.


two more cables failed in the same area, one in a segment connecting Qatar to an island in the United Arab Emirates, and another in a link between Oman and the UAE. The former wasn't even a cut -- it was a power failure

some news sites are even reporting incorrectly that Iran is cut off from the Internet, and claiming that there's a fifth cut, which turns out to be an unexceptional cable failure from weeks ago.


Once those failures sensitized a conspiracy-happy net, it was natural that other cable failures would be found to feed the frenzy, because they occur all the time.

"Cable cuts happen on average once every three days," Beckert said. There are 25 large ships that do nothing but fix cable cuts and bends, Beckert adds.

[Kevy Baby]

I just noticed the typo in your second tag line. It makes me look bad. Could you fix that? Thanks.I shouldn't, just to make you look bad. But since the typo is mine, I shall fix it.

[Moonliner]

I shouldn't, just to make you look bad. But since the typo is mine, I shall fix it.

You are a man of true moral fortitude.

[Kevy Baby]

You are a man of true immoral fortitude.Yep

[Disneyphile]

Damn. And I was all ready to write the screenplay about terrorists cutting off all form of internet communication and all of America dying of boredom!

[Prudence]

Damn. And I was all ready to write the screenplay about terrorists cutting off all form of internet communication and all of America dying of boredom!

Why not a radio play, a la War of the Worlds? As people rediscover radio broadcasts? Meanwhile ham radio operators (ba-dum ching!) become revered resistance leaders.

-... .- -.-. --- -.!

[Kevy Baby]

As people rediscover radio broadcasts?I LOVE old radio dramas. In Southern California, KNX 1070 AM used to have their "Drama Hour" every night (except Sunday) at 9:00. I was often known to stay at work just a little later just so I could be driving home at that hour. I also have a large collection of cassette tapes (purchased at the Museum of Radio and Television in LA (http://www.mtr.org/)) of these old dramas. If I had the patience, I would capture them and put them on my iPod.

[Prudence]

I grew up with LPs of The Shadow, Fibber McGee and Molly, and the Great Gildersleeve.

[Not Afraid]

Oh well. Today's conspiracy theory is shot to hell. On to Heath and Brit. I wonder what the conspiracy is there?

[Disneyphile]

News at 11: Britney Spears found severing underwater cables with electric razor, thus rerouting all internet traffic to her website.

[Moonliner]

Oh thank God!

Just in time! We have a worthy replacement for the cable cutting story....


A Perpetual Motion Machine (http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/300042#t)with a twist. It works.


Comments?

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Why not a radio play, a la War of the Worlds? As people rediscover radio broadcasts? Meanwhile ham radio operators (ba-dum ching!) become revered resistance leaders.

-... .- -.-. --- -.!

-- --- .--- ---

[Alex]

If it is well designed I expect what will happen is what always happens, they'll find that there is unrecognized energy input into the system.

If poorly designed I expect what will happen is what always happens, they'll realize that the machinery was so complicated as to mask what's really happening.

If scammily designed I expect what will happen is what always happens, they'll realize that the inventor is intentionally hiding the energy input.

And there's a very, very small chance that what the man has done is not invent a perpetual motion machine but rather to have found a way to transfer energy that doesn't require currently known energy inputs. After all, a solar powered toy car would appear a perpetual motion machine if you were unaware of electromagnetic radiation.

But I feel extremely confident saying he hasn't invented a true perpetual motion machine that consumes less energy than it produces.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And there's a very, very small chance that what the man has done is not invent a perpetual motion machine but rather to have found a way to transfer energy that doesn't require currently known energy inputs. After all, a solar powered toy car would appear a perpetual motion machine if you were unaware of electromagnetic radiation.

But I feel extremely confident saying he hasn't invented a true perpetual motion machine that consumes less energy than it produces.

From the article:

D Day. Heins has modified his test so the effects observed are difficult to deny. He holds a permanent magnet a few centimetres away from the driveshaft of an electric motor, and the magnetic field it creates causes the motor to accelerate. It went well.Errr, isn't that the basic principal of any electromagnetic motor? Not that I need any more reason to be suspect of claims of perpetual motion, but the utter lack of details in this article doesn't help.

[Alex]

Plus, the newspaper article is really poorly written, offering no evidence of perpetual motion.

It is well known that magnets can cause motion and acceleration. Even permanent magnets (acceleration is generally done with changing fields requiring a constant input of energy). But that bleeds the magnetism out of the magnet. In other words, there is no mention of measuring the magnetic field of the permanent magnet before and after the demonstration (or if demonstration of energy was sufficient to cause a measurable decrease in the magnetic field if one were happening).

Magnets are a very popular source in supposed perpetual motion machines with lots of overlooked energy inputs and outputs.

If the MIT guy is both qualified and truly uncertain then I'm sure this was all accounted for at the demonstration but not explained in the article.


[ETA: Yeah, GD said it before me]

[Moonliner]

From the article:

Errr, isn't that the basic principal of any electromagnetic motor? Not that I need any more reason to be suspect of claims of perpetual motion, but the utter lack of details in this article doesn't help.

Which of course is what makes this story a worthy successor to the Cable cut story. Lot's of drama, not many facts.

[mousepod]

There are some interesting links from the thread at the JREF forum (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=105563).

[Ghoulish Delight]

There are some interesting links from the thread at the JREF forum (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=105563).
Love this post...

Of course, you have to pretend you don't have any degrees or real experience with electronics. This way you can just shrug your shoulders when asked for details on how the device works.

[Pirate Bill]

Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

[Moonliner]

Hold it! We're not dead yet....

The Undersea cable cutting might have been the work of nefarious agents (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080218163315.psfe6g65&show_article=1)yet unnamed.

Personally, I'm still betting on Britney and the paps working together.