OFFICIAL Kings Canyon Camp Swank Thread

[Not Afraid]

We have a date - JUNE 5 - 8
We have a location - Kings Canyon National Park - Sheep Creek Campground
We have a Wiki Here (http://lotcamping.pbwiki.com/)

What you need to do: Go to the Wiki and place your name on it and mark the days you will be staying.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR EDITING THE WIKI SPREADSHEET

Choose Log In at the upper right hand corner.
Wiki Password / Invite Key = 123456
Name
Email

Then return to desired page and simply double-click on the cell you wish to change in the lists and be sure to click the disk icon in the upper left corner to save your changes.
Please do not edit the Wiki pages themselves - only the spreadsheets.
If changes or additions need to be made, please PM Not Afraid or Disneyphile.

When you are done LOG OUT

The First Page is where you sign up and indicate which days you will be .

The page titled Site Mates / Teams (http://lotcamping.pbwiki.com/Site+Mates+Teams) is where you need to add who you will be sharing your site with and who will be on your cooking team. This is also where you add WHICH meal you will be preparing for the group and any dietary restrictions you have.

Happy Planning!!!!!!

[Gemini Cricket]

I'm in.

[wendybeth]

Sheep Creek?




Should they be nervous?;)

[Capt Jack]

anyone know if theres really a creek and if theres fishing allowed?

[Not Afraid]

There's really is a small creek which flows in the REALLY big, fast moving river. I've seen people fishing in the Kings River but not near the campground - it's moving way to fast for fishing.

Here's an article about fishing in the area. (http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_national_park/ca/fish_sk.htm) Zumwalt Meadow is about 6 miles (or 3/4 of a mile if you believe me) from the campground. I'm sure you have to have a current license.

The store at Cedar Grove sell fishing supplies as well.

[Gemini Cricket]

Fishing? Great! I'll bring my rifle.
:D


Is anyone going to bring a hammock?

[Alex]

If you guys didn't last time, consider stopping at the little gas station (Kings Canyon Lodge) on the way into the canyon for a light bite.

They have an operational antique double gravity gas pump (http://www.flickr.com/photos/obfusciatrist/16821384/) and there's nothing as appetite inducing as eating your grilled cheese surrounded by dead animals (http://www.flickr.com/photos/obfusciatrist/16821996/in/set-409156/).

[Not Afraid]

In all of the times I've been down the canyon, I've never stopped there.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Anyone wants to carpool with me, let me know.
Anyone wants me on their meal team, let me know.
Anyone wants to share a campsite, let me know.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm excited. It's been about 7 years since we've been to King's Canyon.

[Kevy Baby]

I wonder how my teammates will feel about the name I chose?

[Not Afraid]

HA! How are you going to explain that to Daddyphile?

[innerSpaceman]

Seeing is believing.

[Disneyphile]

I wonder how my teammates will feel about the name I chose?You were more direct. I would have called us "Church of the WereDick". :p

HA! How are you going to explain that to Daddyphile?

I believe iSm has answered that. ;)

Seeing is believing.

Thankfully, my dad's certainly not a prude. I already warned him that there might maybe possibly will be some random acts of nudity. He laughed. ;)

[Gemini Cricket]

Oh good. I'm glad we don't have to be TVG for your pop.
:D

[Morrigoon]

Heheh... wait till he discovers you're not kidding!

Borneio: you are of course welcome on our team. Carpooling could be a different matter - last time we barely got Cherny and I and our stuff in my matrix.

[Morrigoon]

Hey, I finally found a piece of camping equipment D-phile and/or Kevy do not own:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7857646
I half expect to see it run by a 150-watt lightbulb

Haha... and then there's this: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4809689 ... just because :cheers:

[Disneyphile]

Hey, I finally found a piece of camping equipment D-phile and/or Kevy do not own:*drool*

Oh, that's a must-have.

[Capt Jack]

actually that 2nd one I could use at home.

[Kevy Baby]

Thankfully, my dad's certainly not a prude. I already warned him that there might maybe possibly will be some random acts of nudity. He laughed. ;)Isn't he the one who went to duplicate the proposal DVD and was amused that the name of the disc was "Miscellaneous Porn"?

Hey, I finally found a piece of camping equipment D-phile and/or Kevy do not own:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7857646Hmm... may need to look into it though!

[NirvanaMan]

In!

[Kevy Baby]

In!So that we can have it here (and I have moved myself to the END of the list so that Bornieo would stop complaining):

Susan
Not Afraid
Euro
Audra
Nirvanaman
Capt Jack
Morrigoon
Sohrshah
Ghoulish Delight
Cadaverous Pallor
innerSpaceman
BTD+ 1
Disneyphile
FrodoPotter
Daddyphile
KatieSue
Borneio
Alex?
Gemini Cricket
Ponine
Kevy

As always; if you are going to add, subtract, or modify, just copy the list and repost it modified.

[Gemini Cricket]

I've named me and innerSpaceman's team. Team Discovery Channel!
Anyone who wants to join in, join in.

"Hark to the tale of Nelson,
and the boy he loved so dear.
They remained the best of friends
For years and years and years."

[Not Afraid]

My Bro and SIL are not in the least bit prude either. Just don't pull my brothers finger.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Damnit, am I going to be picked last for teams?

[Gemini Cricket]

My Bro and SIL are not in the least bit prude either. Just don't pull my brothers finger.
I'll pull it. I won't be able to smell it.
:D

[Not Afraid]

I probably should confirm that my Bro is going to join us. Because, if they are, they should probably be on our team.

[Disneyphile]

I suggest that the latecomers try to team up with early folks so they can get their sites.

[Gemini Cricket]

If anyone can play the guitar, they should bring it.
:)

[Capt Jack]

cant. no where to plug in my amp

[BarTopDancer]

I'm WikiChallenged. I can't get it to save :(

[Not Afraid]

Did you log in?

[Kevy Baby]

I'm WikiChallenged. I can't get it to save :(You have to log in to be able to make/save changes.

[Morrigoon]

Oooh, Discovery Channel... that puts an idea to mind... I wonder if we should rename our team from "Where the rum has gone" to "Deadliest Sn@tch"? (you know, like Deadliest Catch?) j/k ;)

[Disneyphile]

Oooh, Discovery Channel... that puts an idea to mind... I wonder if we should rename our team from "Where the rum has gone" to "Deadliest Sn@tch"? (you know, like Deadliest Catch?) j/k ;)Well, it'd go along with the theme like "Black Junk" does. ;)

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

If anyone can play the guitar, they should bring it.
:)

I brought on last year but no one could play it. I'm sure it will be along this time too.


Borneio: you are of course welcome on our team. Carpooling could be a different matter - last time we barely got Cherny and I and our stuff in my matrix.

Ok - no prob. I fit my stuff and NirvanaMan's crap in my Explorer just barely.

So that we can have it here (and I have moved myself to the END of the list so that Bornieo would stop complaining):


Can you put a few spaces between everyone elses name and mine? Thanks...

[Morrigoon]

Well, it'd go along with the theme like "Black Junk" does. ;)
True, but I was kinda diggin' the pirates theme, and I don't think anybody would want to join our team with a name like that ;) (Poor Borneio!) So I think for now, or at least until we have a full team to discuss it, we'll stick with our working title.

Oooh... Working Title... one of my favorite production companies, that wouldn't be a bad name either! Hmm.... have to consider that.

[Morrigoon]

Damnit, am I going to be picked last for teams?

Wait, we have to pick people? You mean they don't automatically sign themselves up? ;)

Are you guys coming early? We could use some early-comers to lay claim to our site.

[Ghoulish Delight]

We're still only a 80% sure we're going. Once that gets closer to 100 we'll see if that means we'll be there thursday.

[Morrigoon]

Fair 'nuf.

Oh, love the avatar... that bunny is disturbingly cute.

[Not Afraid]

I talked with my SIL and they are unsure about coming and not ready to make a "team commitment" so I'm going to stick with the Huevos if that's OK with the man. If they do join us, they will be driving a big ass RV and will be parked somewhat away from us. However, Breakfast is a specialty of my Brother's AND they have a coffee maker in their RV. I already told them they will be making pots and post of coffee.

I also told my SIL there may be tit-sightings (and to pass that along to my Bro as encouragement). I also explained the importance of Bacon and warned them about Kevy's Big Black Dick. :)

[Kevy Baby]

...and warned them about Kevy's Big Black Dick. :)I will do my best to ensure that they experience it via legend only and do endure visual testimony.

And I don't think "big" should be part of the legend. I would hate to be misleading people.

[Disneyphile]

Here's a travel blog with some more info and pictures of Sheep Creek:

http://www.maryjomellado.com/Camping_2002/2002_sequoia_01.htm

(Be sure to check the other "camp" links on the left of the page to view more site photos.)

This includes how to pay/"reserve" your site upon entry. However, sites are now $18 per night, according to the official park site (that info is on the "Key Information" page in the Wiki).

Tip: for those who want to save extra money, try to plan on the maximum of 6 people in your site (maximum of 2 cars) so you only have to pay $3 per person per night. 5 people in a site runs $3.60pp, 4 people at $4.50pp, 3 at $6.00pp, and 2 at $9.00pp. And, sometimes, that extra space is worth the extra money, so it really depends on personal comfort level.

[Morrigoon]

Team "Where the Rum Has Gone" could still use some early arrivers...

[Not Afraid]

Cedar Grove Hikes

Roaring River Falls 5 min Begins at parking area 3.0 miles east of the Village turnoff. A refreshing and shady walk leads you to a forceful waterfall rushing through a narrow granite chute

Zumwalt Meadow 1.0 .4.5 mi east of the turnoff to Cedar Grove Village One of the most scenic in Kings Canyon. It affords magnificent views of high granite walls, a lush meadow, and the meandering Kings River. A booklet for the self-guiding nature trail is available at the Visitor Center book store or at the trailhead Don Cecil Trail This trail climbs the relatively cool north-facing slope of the canyon. This historic trail was the major access route to Cedar Grove prior to the completion of Highway 180 in 1939.

Sheep Creek Cascade 2 mi* A moderately strenuous hike up the forested Don Cecil Trail provides views of the Monarch Divide and leads to a shady glen on Sheep Creek. This takes about 1.5 hours and gains 600' in elevation.

Lookout Peak 13 mi* Continue beyond Sheep Creek. The climb to Lookout Peak provides an incredible panorama of the park's backcountry. This strenuous, all-day hike climbs some 4000' to the summit.

Hotel Creek Trail The cool of the morning is the best time to hike this trail, which climbs up the relatively dry, south-facing side of the canyon.

Cedar Grove Overlook 5 mi, The trail switchbacks up through chaparral to a forested ridge and a rocky outcrop. This strenuous hike will reward you with a gorgeous view up and down Kings Canyon. A 1200' elevation gain, this hike takes 3-4 hours to complete.

Hotel Creek - Lewis Creek Loop 8 mi If you continue 1.25 mile past the turn-off to Cedar Grove Overlook, the Hotel Creek Trail drops down to join the Lewis Creek Trail. This area was burned in 1980, in one of the largest fires these parks have experienced in recent years. The last 2 miles, from the Lewis Creek Trailhead back to your starting point, follow a trail above the roadway. This trip takes an average of 5 hours and gains 1200' to the highest point.

Mist Falls 8 mi This sandy trail follows the glaciated South Fork Canyon through forest and chaparral, past an impressive show of rapids and cascades, to one of the largest waterfalls in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks. The first part of this trip is relatively flat; during the last mile to the falls, the trail gains 600'. The average time for this trip is 4 to 5 hours.

Horse Trail Hikes
There is also a pack station at Cedar Grove where you can rent horses or mules and go on a guided hike.

[Not Afraid]

This includes how to pay/"reserve" your site upon entry. However, sites are now $18 per night, according to the official park site (that info is on the "Key Information" page in the Wiki).


At $18 a night, we can get as many sites as we feel like it. That's CHEAP!

[Disneyphile]

At $18 a night, we can get as many sites as we feel like it. That's CHEAP!Exactly. People can team up or spread out as they like.

Anyway, I'll add a "Things to Do" page to the Wiki so folks can plan hikes or other activities. I'll find out more about the horseback info and add the hiking trail info too. :)

[Kevy Baby]

Tip: for those who want to save extra money, try to plan on the maximum of 6 people in your site (maximum of 2 cars) so you only have to pay $3 per person per night. 5 people in a site runs $3.60pp, 4 people at $4.50pp, 3 at $6.00pp, and 2 at $9.00pp. And, sometimes, that extra space is worth the extra money, so it really depends on personal comfort level.We base the costing of common expenses on an overall average. For example, the total cost for all sites for all nights becomes a lump cost spread evenly over all participants. It is based on an average of four persons per site.

And like NA said, $18 per site per night is dirt cheap.

[Not Afraid]

There's also Boyden Caverns (http://www.caverntours.com/BoydenRt.htm)to visit.

Also, on the drive in from Fresno is Cat Haven Wild Animal Park. (http://www.cathaven.com/)

Another thing to watch for are the fruit stands on the Highway 180. Some of the best fruit I've ever had in my life came from the orchards behind the fruit stands. It's worthwhile to stop and pick up a few bits of what's in season.

[Disneyphile]

We base the costing of common expenses on an overall average. For example, the total cost for all sites for all nights becomes a lump cost spread evenly over all participants. It is based on an average of four persons per site.

And like NA said, $18 per site per night is dirt cheap.Then, we need to collect funds prior to going and one person pay for all sites once they get there.

If someone wants to organize that, great.

According to the current tally, we'll have 19 people, which means 5 sites. 5 sites x $18 x 4 nights divided evenly is $18.95 per person for the whole trip. :)

[Morrigoon]

That's an amount that can be managed :)

[Not Afraid]

We base the costing of common expenses on an overall average. For example, the total cost for all sites for all nights becomes a lump cost spread evenly over all participants. It is based on an average of four persons per site.

And like NA said, $18 per site per night is dirt cheap.

Since the sites are not done by advance reservation and people may want to spread out if we have that possibility, I think that people or groups should be responsible for their own site fees. That way, I can choose 5 nights at $18 if I want or split the cost with another person, group, vehicle or whatever.

It also keeps the mess of accounting down to a per campsite transaction.

[Disneyphile]

It also keeps the mess of accounting down to a per campsite transaction.It also means the person collecting all the funds needs to arrive early enough to get all sites and also set up stuff in each site to "reserve" it until everyone else gets there.

That's precisely why I'm not volunteering. ;)

[Capt Jack]

Anyway, I'll add a "Things to Do" page to the Wiki so folks can plan hikes or other activities. I'll find out more about the horseback info and add the hiking trail info too. :)

oooh, never been on a horse. sounds fun.

[Not Afraid]

oooh, never been on a horse. sounds fun.

I believe if you're over 200 pounds, you'll have to ride a mule. (Not saying that you are or anything, but just a warning note.)

[Disneyphile]

Heh. In that case, I'll need a clydesdale. ;)

[Kevy Baby]

Then, we need to collect funds prior to going and one person pay for all sites once they get there.

If someone wants to organize that, great.If persons pay for individual sites on their way in and I know about it (it is recorded), it all works out in the end.

That is, as long as no one has a problem with me handling the accounting.

Another thing to watch for are the fruit stands on the Highway 180.There are gay bars with no stools?

[Disneyphile]

If persons pay for individual sites on their way in and I know about it (it is recorded), it all works out in the end.But, it still requires that person to get there early (probably before 10am), and set up gear at each site.

[Not Afraid]

The other thing to account for when budget planning is the per vehicle charge to get into the National Park - $20 per vehicle for a 7 day pass.

[Not Afraid]

If persons pay for individual sites on their way in and I know about it (it is recorded), it all works out in the end.

That is, as long as no one has a problem with me handling the accounting.



Is there really a need to do any accounting except between people who are sharing a campsite? The only accounting that really needs to be done with through a person at a campsite and the national Park Service.


OH! And, since no one travles with a checkbook any longer, it might behoove you to bring one along. It's much easier to slip a check for the correct amount into the envelope than to try and have exact change.

[Disneyphile]

The other thing to account for when budget planning is the per vehicle charge to get into the National Park - $20 per vehicle for a 7 day pass.
Or, drive up with someone who has an annual pass. :)

[Disneyphile]

OH! And, since no one travles with a checkbook any longer, it might behoove you to bring one along. It's much easier to slip a check for the correct amount into the envelope than to try and have exact change.Since we'd probably be the early arrivers for our site, I was just going to drop the envelope with our full amount, and then make Kevy & GusGus dance off their share later. :evil:

But, I also think my dad gets 50% off the site he stays in with his senior annual pass, so that throws a wrench in a bit too.

[Disneyphile]

We totally need this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0899971326

[Disneyphile]

As for a map of the campground, this is the best I've been able to come up with so far:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b80/Disneyphile/map_grizzly.jpg

The large blue line is the river.

And, I believe here is the desired sites (right on the river and huge), according to NA:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b80/Disneyphile/CampSwank.jpg

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Or, drive up with someone who has an annual pass. :)

OR! Drive up late at night when the rangers are asleep so you don't have to pay. hehehe:evil:

[Kevy Baby]

OR! Drive up late at night when the rangers are asleep so you don't have to pay. hehehe:evil:They're supposed to be cruising the grounds each day to make sure every car has a valid pass on it - I wouldn't chance it. Even if you got away with it last time, it does not guarantee future success. YMMV

[Deebs]

OK you guys, I don't even like camping, but this sounds fun.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

They're supposed to be cruising the grounds each day to make sure every car has a valid pass on it - I wouldn't chance it. Even if you got away with it last time, it does not guarantee future success. YMMV

Yes - dash my hopes and dreams....

[Gemini Cricket]

While standing in line for GRR, I came up with a list of things I should bring to camp. That list contains 413 items.

[Not Afraid]

We totally need this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0899971326

I have it. Along with a few others.

[Kevy Baby]

While standing in line for GRR, I came up with a list of things I should bring to camp. That list contains 413 items.It can easily be pared down to 410: you don't need to bring an entire year's worth of condoms.

[Capt Jack]

OK you guys, I don't even like camping, but this sounds fun.

you might learn to love it on one of these trips

truly

[Disneyphile]

OK you guys, I don't even like camping, but this sounds fun.Join us. :D

Besides, I don't camp. I homestead. ;)

[Kevy Baby]

Join us. :D

Besides, I don't camp. I homestead. ;)She does too - it is impressive.

[Disneyphile]

She does too - it is impressive.Yeah, but I can't rival the fact that you two seriously bring the kitchen sink.

[Deebs]

you might learn to love it on one of these trips

truly

That's what I was thinking. Good company could make all the difference. The last time I camped, wow, like 14 years ago? I was with my then future in-laws and because I had to work late on the day we left, we had to choose a campground late at night in the dark. Of course, when we woke up we found ourselves right next to the outhouses. Awesome. As the day warmed up... you know.

Join us. :D

Besides, I don't camp. I homestead. ;)

:snap: And your dad is going? I like your dad!

Yeah, but I can't rival the fact that you two seriously bring the kitchen sink.

This just keeps sounding bettah and bettah.

[Disneyphile]

This just keeps sounding bettah and bettah.Here are photos from last year:

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147987&postcount=1287

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=146950&postcount=1195

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147098&postcount=1224

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147099&postcount=1225

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147101&postcount=1226

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147103&postcount=1227

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147106&postcount=1228

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147121&postcount=1229

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147173&postcount=1233

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147174&postcount=1234

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147178&postcount=1235

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147215&postcount=1240

http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showpost.php?p=147305&postcount=1242

[Not Afraid]

This just keeps sounding bettah and bettah.

Come! You can meet my inner lesbian and see Kevy's black dick.

[Disneyphile]

Come! You can meet my inner lesbian and see Kevy's black dick.We could charge admission! ;)

[Not Afraid]

Freak show camp!

[Deebs]

Come! You can meet my inner lesbian and see Kevy's black dick.

Who could say no to that?

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I tried...

[Ghoulish Delight]

C'mon people settle down. You've already gone and got the thread sticky.

[Disneyphile]

Freak show camp!And perfect inspiration for my upcoming animated feature, "Curse of the WereDick!" :eek:

[Sohrshah]

I signed up. :)

[innerSpaceman]

It can easily be pared down to 410: you don't need to bring an entire year's worth of condoms.
Actually, he needs bring none. According to G.C., I will be doing the raping.

And the rape of Gemini Cricket has been moved to Kings Canyon from Yosemite. We've cancelled the extension for lack of interest ... and we'd both rather go there with more peeps if and when there's ever a peeps a'going.




SO .... that brings me to my questions about snagging campsites (which are indeed the ones indicated on Disneyphile's map up above).


How is it done? What is the CURRENT procedure? The procedure changed so often at Yosemite that we sometimes got screwed out of great sites when we camped soon after the procedure changed.

Is there really no ranger/entry station at Sheep Creek? You leave your money in a slot somewhere that's not manned? How would you get the car tag that rangers then supposedly cruise around and check for?

More important, are we sure that turnover of campsites is made privately by the previous occupant directly to the new occupant? Or are sites assigned officially at a certain location?

This is a vital distinction. We need to know whether we are proceeding directly to the desired sites and inquiring of campers whether they're leaving that day ... or if we're lining up at some Ranger station somewhere for assignments of sites that become available that day.

We need to know this, and it's not wise to simply assume it's going to currently be the way it used to be.




In any event, it seems to me ... with a noon check-out time, a team of early LoT arrivers should be on the scene by 10:00 a.m. Thursday morning. So instead of a Yosemite extension, I propose a glorious FRESNO ADD-ON ... because unless you're really ready to leave L.A. with your car all packed for camping at 4am, you're not going to make it in time.


So, a few of us should probably leave just after L.A. rush hour on Wednesday night head out for a thrifty lodging place in beautiful downtown Fresno, and meet up for a late night snack. Have an early breakfast togther and try to beat it out of town by 7:30 a.m.



To make up for my rash impertinence in trying to lure people away from the first day of Swank Camp, I hereby volunteer to be among the early arrivers to leave at 7:30 am from Fresno "base camp." We'll need at least two others, I think. Any volunteers? If you insist on lagging behind, and all that.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Camp sites are reserved in King's Canyon by filling out an envelope with your info/campsite info, putting money in the envelope, and putting the envelope in a box. You get the car tag at the park entrance, but that's separate from the campsite. Sites are entirely first-come first-served and not assigned by rangers.

[Not Afraid]

OMG, ISM. I couldn't make it through your post. It's simple. You go the the campsite you desire, drop off stuff, go back to the kiosk at the front, put money in an envelope and drop it in a slot.

[innerSpaceman]

And the source of this information? Determined when?


Sorry for my inquisitiveness ... but the information must be both authoritative AND current.



In either case, if people are leaving at noon, our advance guard should be there a couple of hours before to cruise the campground and figure out who's leaving that morning.




ETA: N.A., are you assuming that all the cool campsites are there for the plucking? Just lying there empty? Those four grand sites that are going to be the most coveted?

I think that's a poor assumption. If any sites in Sheep Creek are occupied when we arrive, it's likely to be those. I think it's much safer to assume that some sites will be becoming vacant that morning than assume they will just be empty and waiting.

[Not Afraid]

What the hell? Chill out!


The coveted sites may or may not be available but there's not much we can do about it. We get there and find the best sites we can and then start camping.

As for the quality of the information.....if you have questions and don't believe our answers, call the national park yourself

[Kevy Baby]

We could always use the (not so) Big Black Dick to clear spaces.

[innerSpaceman]

Lisa, can I ask what is UP WITH YOU?


I didn't say I didn't believe anyone. I just asked where and when the info was gotten, because things CHANGE.


I'm not the one who has to chill out. This thread is here and it's about planning. It's 3 months from now, so this thread exists to chat about stuff until then. We can chat about food, bears, mountain lions, hikes, gear .. and also about getting cool riverside campsites with no reservations.


Sheep Creek may not be as popular as Disneyland, but the handful of good campsites may not be handed to us on a platter. They may require a little advance planning and an early arrival. It's true of almost anything desireable in this world.

No one is forcing anyone to get to King's Canyon early in the morning. You don't have to. I'm just suggesting it's advisable, and I'm volunteering to do it.

So why are YOU making a big deal about that? Please chill out your own self.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's been like that for at least half a century, I don't think it's changed in the few years since I was there last.

[Not Afraid]

If you want to get there early, then get there early. Campsites may be available or they may not. There's really no strategy involved. The Canyon is pretty empty the weekend after Memorial Day and we won't have a problem getting 4 or 5 sites together. If they are the "most" desirable ones, then we'll be lucky. If they are not, there will be plenty of other ones to choose from. There's not much we can do about it.

I've camped at this site probably 10 times and NEVER had a problem getting sites - and the reason I KNOW about the desirable ones is that I was able to get them without a problem.

And, if by some fluke the entire campsite is filled, there are 3 more campsites to choose from.

There's just no reason to be in a frenzy about this.

As far as change goes.....call the ranger station if you have doubts.

[Disneyphile]

Wow! It's like I can already hear us singing "Kumbaya" by the fire!

[Morrigoon]

Well, there's always some stress in hashing out the details. Better now than at Swank Camp, right? :cheers:

[Disneyphile]

Well, there's always some stress in hashing out the details.True, but there are really no details to hash out. It's not difficult at all - find people to camp with, drive up, get/pay your site, cook your one meal, and hang out with friends. It's really not that difficult of a concept. There's only one thing to really plan - the meal, and that's it. Why we need to add more stress to it is beyond me.

[Morrigoon]

Speaking of which... our team is looking decidedly small. Anybody here not on a team yet? We could really use some more folks...

[Disneyphile]

Speaking of which... our team is looking decidedly small. Anybody here not on a team yet? We could really use some more folks...How about combining with Team Discovery Channel which only has 3 people? They're going up early, and it will also save money by reducing the group down to 4 sites instead of 5. :)

[innerSpaceman]

I don't know why there's stress at all.

It's been that way for centuries is, by the way, famous last words.


It was that way for centuries at Yosemite until the day it wasn't. Just as we had done for six or seven years, we got to Lower Pines and found the campsites we liked that people were vacating that day. We made arrangements with them to turn the sites over to us, and then went to the Ranger station to inform them ... as had been done for centuries.

Lo and behold, that was the year the system was changed. There was already a significant line of cars at the Ranger station to be assigned empty sites per the brand new procedure that we did not bother to become aware of because we assumed things would be as they were for centuries. We lost the cool sites by the river.

A few years later, increased popularity resulted in a further change, and sites are now assigned at the time of reservations.

Those were, by the way, the reservations that now sell out in under 4 minutes. Do you suppose the other 464,000 thousand people who want to go camping in Yosemite simply cancel their plans entirely? Or do you think a few of them might go elsewhere in the Sierras, increasing the popularity of other parks and forests?



Sheesh. I have no idea why I am getting grief for trying to work things out in advance so we can have the most pleasant time possible. Is anybody harmed by discussing this?


If you don't happen to agree that those four riverside campsites won't likely be ready and waiting for people who arrive from Los Angeles at 5pm, you can just say so without asserting that I'm somehow freaking out or bringing up absurd subjects like campsites when we should be talking about meals.

[Kevy Baby]

Wow! It's like I can already hear us singing "Kumbaya" by the fire!If we're singing, I'm not going.

How about combining with Team Discovery Channel which only has 3 people? They're going up early, and it will also save money by reducing the group down to 4 sites instead of 5. :)Since the rates are not too high, I think we would be better off with the extra site.

[Disneyphile]

Since the rates are not too high, I think we would be better off with the extra site.Who's going to stay at the extra site until the latecomers arrive then? The NFS confiscates all gear left in an unoccupied site after 24 hours.

Actually, I have a better idea - why don't you and GusGus switch to Goon's team, and then that evens the sites out more and resolves the issue of having an unoccupied site. :) (Be sure to make the change on the Wiki.)

Ken, my dad, and I can handle ourselves, and will just pay for our own site when we get there. It's just much easier than trying to split costs, coordinate who is bringing what gear, reserving what site, etc. Also, that means those who want to even out costs only have to worry about 4 sites still, thus making it cheaper or more "fair" for those who want to go that route. We'll still sign up to serve a meal as planned.

We'll see ya all at the campout. I'm done planning now. :)

[Morrigoon]

edit: Nevermind, apparently I was responding to a hypothetical suggestion.

[Disneyphile]

Ok, I'm done letting off steam now.

KB, I'm certainly not casting you and GusGus away from the team - just frustrated at what seems to be a bigger mess than it even needs to be.

*breathe*

[Disneyphile]

edit: Nevermind, apparently I was responding to a hypothetical suggestion.
I didn't see your response at the time I wrote mine. *sigh*

I'll happily remove the three of us from the pot, since I did say it, and I'll honor what I said to avoid hurting your feelings.

See you all there. We'll just take whatever meal spot is left. I'm done.

[Kevy Baby]

Might I make a suggestion to all participants: No planning or discussion of planning for a few days, either on the board or off. All pending questions and issues are easily resolved and can be dealt with when we all have cooler heads.

There is nothing that needs to be taken care of today (or tomorrow) and certainly not with this level of contention.

[Morrigoon]

T: I'll not mess with the status quo. K&S can team up with whoever they wish to. I had just expressed a willingness if they chose to follow your suggestion.

Kevy's right, none of this is worth getting our shorts in a knot over :)

[katiesue]

There are still a few "maybes" so I'm sure things are going to shift around a bit anyway. No need to stress about anything yet.

[innerSpaceman]

If we can't discuss things we may not see precisely eye-to-eye on without calling it contention, we shouldn't be in the same forest together.

I don't see what's wrong with suggesting things, having those suggestions disagreed with, counter-points made, tangent issues raised, etc. ... all without calling it an argument, or making personal attitude assumptions about the people discussing stuff.


Speaking of discussing stuff, I wonder why my team decided on Saturday breakfast without discussing it with me, particularly since we saw each other day before yesterday and discussed potential meals.

So, I unilaterally moved it to Friday breakfast ... because the breakfast plan we discussed involved things best prepared earlier in the schedule.


There ... I'm talking about meals. It's happy pappy fun. FOOD! Yay!

[Not Afraid]

There's nothing to discuss. We've got dates, a place, and a wiki to plan teams and meals. Beyond that, you're on your own to enjoy the experience however you'd like. I will share what I know about things to do in the area and you can plan to do these things or not and that doesn't need to be decided until we get there - or, at least I'm not deciding on that until I get there.

[Gemini Cricket]

Well, I'm going to have fun no matter who goes, where we are or who makes what for any meal.
:)

And, as god as my witness, I will not be eaten by a mountain lion.
:D

[Chernabog]

And, as god as my witness, I will not be eaten by a mountain lion.

No respectable lion would eat someone with 8000 posts!!! Woot you are so an octoloser! ;)

[Not Afraid]

And, as god as my witness, I will not be eaten by a mountain lion.
:D

No, you won't. But, I can't guarantee you won't be mauled by a bear.:D

I think I should take this picture, cut it out and project the shadow in the side of GC's tent in the middle of the night. Thurston can probably muster some good grumbles for sound effects.

This could be fun!

http://www.yardshadow.com/YS145146.gif

[innerSpaceman]

Ghost Stories this time! With requisite flashlite face effect.

[Gemini Cricket]

Oh, I can tell a ghost story. Oh yes, I can. Mark my words. I can.

[MouseWife]

Aw man, you guys are gonna tell ghost stories???????

I haven't had a real good night of ghost stories since I was about 12.

Damnt it.

Well, I won't even say how many years it's been since but it has been a while.

[innerSpaceman]

But we must decide which stories in advance, and who will be telling them in what order. :p


So ... did i miss the decree that meal teams must pitch their tents on the same site?

That wasn't the case last year and it turned out just fine. Perhaps others did it for some sense of one-mealtime cohesion, but I simply picked my favorite available site when I arrived, and pitched my tent.

It just so happens my teammates made camp in an adjoining site, but that was complete coincidence. For the sake a preparing one meal together, I don't think we need a guideline that meal teams should occupy the same site. Let tentmates pick out the site they like out of what's available when they arrive.

If a personal preference is to be near your meal-mates, so be it. You might also have a preference to camp far from the loudest snorers, or far from (or near to) the loudest copulators. :cool:


Disneyphile was right in that nothing needs beyond personal planning except one single meal. Personally, I don't think it goes as far as Not Afraid's declaration that there's nothing to discuss. This thread is here, so we might as well use it to chat, i.e., discuss.

But I hope we can do it without ruffling feathers. Meal teams are not like Dodge Ball Teams, and I hate to think people are feeling hurt for not being "picked." As it happens, we have only five teams for what will really be six meals together, so I don't think further team consolidation is the best way to go. But whatever.

:cheers: Dinner on Sunday can, like breakfast on Monday, be a mish-mash of everything left-over.



And if two people are, perhaps unfairly, left to create a meal all by their lonesome ... they can treat everyone to a classic breakfast of cereal and milk! :)

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Speaking of discussing stuff, I wonder why my team decided on Saturday breakfast without discussing it with me, particularly since we saw each other day before yesterday and discussed potential meals.

So, I unilaterally moved it to Friday breakfast ... because the breakfast plan we discussed involved things best prepared earlier in the schedule.

There ... I'm talking about meals. It's happy pappy fun. FOOD! Yay!

That was me. I understood since both of you don't cook and I might/ might not be there on Thurs and Friday is up in the air that Saturday would be the day. I understood that no one really cared what we did. We can do Friday but there is a slim chance I might not be there to cook it. :)

[innerSpaceman]

oh, then we should switch back to Saturday. I just didn't want to go an extra day counting on the odds that a bunch of those eggs wouldn't break.

Oh, but I'd have thought Gemini Cricket would have mentioned that he can't eat eggs when we were talking about stealing Alex's last year idea for a design-your-own-omelette bar.

Maybe we should reconsider everything.

[Kevy Baby]

We have to tell stories about Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore?

Is someone bringing clay and a potter's wheel?

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

No problem-o. I was just laying the foundation. I have some ideas and when I collect them I hope to discuss that with you dudes in our secret club. :)

[innerSpaceman]

Let's build a tree-house at Swank Camp for our secret club meetings.

And, ick, NO GIRLS!



BTW: NOTE TO WIKI POWERS: Um, isn't it "Swank Camp" and not 'Camp Swank'???

[lashbear]

Might I make a suggestion to all participants: No planning or discussion of planning for a few days, either on the board or off..
Fine !! then I won't discuss who's camp I'll be in then. In fact, I'm not even going now. So there.


....even if there's bacon.

[Kevy Baby]

BTW: NOTE TO WIKI POWERS: Um, isn't it "Swank Camp" and not 'Camp Swank'???You're just never happy, are you?

The title of this thread includes "Camp Swank", the poll thread that YOU posted was Camp Swank Poll - Reply ASAP (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/showthread.php?t=7469).

I say Camp Swank.

Now go get yourself a hobby!

[innerSpaceman]

I have one.




It's Annoyance.

[Sohrshah]

Wow. Maybe I won't go on this trip after all.

[€uroMeinke]

I plan on doing some reading, maybe some witting, and mixing cocktails

[Gemini Cricket]

I'm going to buy a hammock. And then, I'm going to sit in the hammock.

[€uroMeinke]

We're getting a fvcking hammock

[Disneyphile]

Sorry, but I won't be able to contribute to the bar. I already drank it all while reading this thread. ;)

[Gemini Cricket]

We're getting a fvcking hammock
Yes. Lisa and I are starting Hammockland USA at one of the campsites.
:D

[Disneyphile]

I've already got a two-person hammock that is great for snuggling with my honey, but I so want a hammock chair. Gonna check in the Mexico ports in May. :)

[innerSpaceman]

I'm gonna rise with the dawn, go watch dear frolic in a meadow, hike to a waterfall, come back to camp for breakfast, go climb a mountain, hang out by the river, enjoy dinner with friends, sit around the campfire with a drink in my hand for about an hour and then plummet back to sleep.

If there's a HammockLand, I'll try sitting still in one for 15 minutes if I can.


I've got excess energy. Nature seems to exacerbate that, not calm it.


But, it still requires that person to get there early (probably before 10am), and set up gear at each site.

So I will be getting to Sheep Creek before 10am on Thursday (hmmm, thanks for the advice, Disneyphile) and -- to the extent anyone will lend me their tents - - I'll try to populate four beautiful, riverside campsites.

[Morrigoon]

So I will be getting to Sheep Creek before 10am on Thursday (hmmm, thanks for the advice, Disneyphile) and -- to the extent anyone will lend me their tents - - I'll try to populate four beautiful, riverside campsites.

Okay, so are Sohrshah and I joining your team then? Works for me...

[Kevy Baby]

I plan on doing some reading, maybe some witting, and mixing cocktailsI've been sitting here trying to decide if this is a typo or a clever play on words
I'm going to buy a hammock. And then, I'm going to sit in the hammock.You might enjoy the hammock more if you take it out of the box and hang it up before sitting (or lying) in it.

[Disneyphile]

Okay, so are Sohrshah and I joining your team then? Works for me...That's probably best, since they're arriving before you and the rangers confiscate stuff left to "reserve" campsites within 24 hours.

And, if this thread pisses me off today, I have some booze handy to keep my hands too occupied to type. ;)

[Morrigoon]

Perhaps someone from Team Discovery Channel would be kind enough to shoot me a pm and let me know if that's okay with them before I change us over in the wiki?

[innerSpaceman]

Well. after a unilateral choice of meal was made by one member of Team Discovery Channel, I hesitate to speak for the team without consulting my mates.

But here's my thoughts:


Pro: I'd love to have Goonie and Shawshank on my team. Why the hell not? Well, see Cons below.


Cons:
A) We already have two tents on our campsite. Our physical campsite is full. That's ok, because I am not buying into the fiction that meal teams must occupy the same site simply because they are preparing one meal together. Just like last time, I will camp at whatever available site tickles my fancy, without regard to what tickles my mates' fancies.

But, of course, that doesn't help "save" you guys a camp site for arriving late. I'm sure, however, there will be enough spare junk among the lot of us to fake-up an occupied site for any latecomers.



B) We already have two pot-luck meals because we don't have enough teams as there are group meals. So I don't particularly see the point of consolidating that even more. But, ya know, whatever. It's all good.

As of now (and we have plenty of time to work this all out, without argument or hurt feelings) that either leaves us with two meal teams consisting of 3 and 2, or one team with 5.


Personally I don't care. Neither G.C. or I can cook worth a damn, so if Goonie or Shawshank have any mad food prep skillz, we'll likely welcome them with open arms.


But it's already looking like Sunday dinner AND Monday breakfast are kitchin-sink meals ... and I have ZERO problem with that (last year's last day breakfast was one of the --- if not THE --- best meals at Swank Camp).


Let's see what the other Team Discovery Channel boyz chime in with.

[Disneyphile]

Don't forget us disciples of the Black Junk who haven't signed up for a meal slot yet. :p

Or, forget, and we'll serve up chopped liver. :p

[innerSpaceman]

Technically, we haven't either. In fact, I have to check the Wiki. Borneio said he unilaterally picked Saturday breakfast because he wasn't sure he'd be there by Friday morning.

In which case, we can hardly do Friday breakfast. I'd go back and change it to Saturday, but if we are teaming up with M & S, I like their meal a whole lot better and would rather join in the fun of that.

I think I'm going to, for now, clear Team Discovery Channel from the meal section of the Wiki.

[innerSpaceman]

Aaaand ... looking at the amended Wiki as it now stands, M&S have the ONLY scheduled meal with the Big and Girthy Weenie Roast.

Well, as Goonie (and several others) can attest, I fit in perfectly with anything lableled "Big and Girthy Weenie" ... so the fates are looking more and more like we should all be one big meal team!

[Morrigoon]

I can personally attest to the fact that Shawshank has MAD food prep skillz! Me, I'm okay I guess.

The big, girthy weenie roast will most likely consist of a variety of gourmet sausages, which you will get to cook yourself over a roaring fire (unless you'd like us to butterfly and pan-fry it), served with either rolls or baguettes, some sauteed onions and peppers to top them with, possibly some other toppings, and a few rockin side dishes (of a vegetable nature) as yet to be determined. At least that was what I had in mind.

I'm more concerned with the campsite squatting, but if at least one person can pitch their tent (Kevy, get your mind out of the gutter, dear!) on a 5th space, then it'll probably all work out in the end.

Which reminds me, has BtD joined a team yet?

[BarTopDancer]

BTD has not joined a team yet because BTD is still not sure she is going. If BTD does go, she will be on team Garth Brooks.

All this obsessive planning and catfight drama is really making BTD not want to go. Camping is supposed to be chill.

[Morrigoon]

It is chill. Was last year :)

[BarTopDancer]

It may have been, but this thread is sure not giving that impression. All I see is a battle of the wills, arguing, obsessive planning and drama about things that aren't even occurring for 3 months.

If I go, I'll join a team and update the wiki.

[blueerica]

Well, I haven't been keeping up with this thread in any form - but it was pretty bad last year, too.

[blueerica]

The planning aspect, that is.

[Morrigoon]

I just figure some discussion and hashing out of details is a natural part of the planning process. People disagree, eventually the answer makes itself clear, and we all end up enjoying the hell out of ourselves in the end, in part because we bothered to work on the planning.

I had an awesome time last year.

[innerSpaceman]

I have no clue why people are interpretting this thread of planning as a fight. In discussing options, we - BY NATURE - have to be offering different opinions and then we proceed to discuss their benefits and pitfalls.

It's not an argument ... it's called planning. As you can see, if you read the thread, it's mostly fun talk about bears and hammocks and big black dicks.

Sheesh, we do have to talk about campsites and meals and teams and stuff. It's not a big deal, and I don't know why people are getting their pre-moistened panties in a knot.


Granted, Lisa and I were indeed fighting yesterday. I still to this minute have no idea why she is against me getting to the campsites by 10am. When Teresa suggested the very same thing earlier in the thread, she got no grief about it.


But be that as it may ... yes I happen to be more concerned with actual planning than with fun talk. That's just me. I like to plan a trip in the early stages ... and then completely forget about it until a week before. (Camping needs at least a week of physical prep time for me).


It now occurs to me that a) M&S most likely wanted to join Team D.C. to snag a campsite, and that would do them no good ... though I remain happy to try and procure them a site; and b) if I join up with them for the perfectly fitted Big & Girthy Weenie Roast, that leaves THREE non-team meals, not two. Again, I DON'T CARE. The Team thing worked out swell last time in terms of easy living, but I still maintain that maintaining multiple camp kitchens is a little impractical. It's not a biggie either.

But Team Meals are not the be-all and end-all of Swank Camping, and we'll all do fine if three meals are more pot-luck, or even feed-yourself.


But these ARE things that have to be worked out. I'm trying my best to work them out without ruffling feathers. That's really not my intention. My intention is just to work things out.

And I'm happy to talk about bears and hammocks and black dicks, too.

[Kevy Baby]

All this obsessive planning and catfight drama is really making BTD not want to go. Camping is supposed to be chill.

It may have been, but this thread is sure not giving that impression. All I see is a battle of the wills, arguing, obsessive planning and drama about things that aren't even occurring for 3 months.I encourage you to go - ignore all the crap that has been flying around this thread. Some feel the need to hyper plan things now that don't require this level of "discussion" - now or later. The actual trip is worth it.

[BarTopDancer]

I encourage you to go - ignore all the crap that has been flying around this thread. Some feel the need to hyper plan things now that don't require this level of "discussion" - now or later. The actual trip is worth it.

You just want to see my boobs and try to get another shot at undoing my bra :p

[Kevy Baby]

You just want to see my boobs...Well that's a given
...and try to get another shot at undoing my bra :pI've accepted the fact that this is a long lost (on me) talent.

[Morrigoon]

iSm: I'm just trying not to be on a 2-person team because of the financial burden. (Well, and the site-snagging. But I've no doubt of your site-snagging skills ;))

Splitting the cost of a site plus the cost of the meal between only two people is much more expensive than splitting between 4 or 5 people, and neither Sohrshah nor I are all that well off financially, so I'd much rather be part of a larger team, sharing the costs more ways. The extra $50 each of being a 2-person team may not sound like much to some, but to us it's a lot.

If the meal thing is a concern, why don't we as a 5-person team pull off the weenie roast plus breakfast the next day. There are a lot of economies of scale that we could take advantage of, such as buying the gourmet sausages in bulk, and using additional ones as part of breakfast the next day, not to mention shared kitchen resources like stoves and pots & pans. We have a lot to offer as teammates, between her mad cooking skillz, my stove, pots & pans, a table, etc. It'd be kind of like your group kitchen concept, except just within our site for 2 meals.

I'm guessing 3 tents to a site is not a problem since 2 other teams will probably be doing it (if I'm guesstimating that right)

I'm sorry that some think this is hyper planning, but to me, sorting out the cost is a big deal that I don't want to leave till the last minute when there are no options left to solve the problem with.

[Kevy Baby]

It keeps getting said, so hopefully it sinks in soon:

The trip is almost three months away. It is too soon to be worrying about making group, meal, or site plans.


There are many people sitting on the fence and not everyone (myself included) have settled when exactly they are heading up. Let this rest a while and we can address it when the date gets closer.

Sheesh.

[katiesue]

I agree with Kevy. I understand budget concerns, but there is still a lot of leeway in who's going and when. General plans and ideas are great but I don't think it's possible to firm things down at this point. Situation fluid.

I like ISM's Wednesday night Fresno plan. And hopefully schedule permitting I can possibly help out with that.

[Nephythys]

Hint- for the next three months- put the money is a safe place instead of buying a latte, ice cream, or any other small goodie.

In three months it will add up- :)

(wish I could join in)

[innerSpaceman]

If the meal thing is a concern, why don't we as a 5-person team pull off the weenie roast plus breakfast the next day. There are a lot of economies of scale that we could take advantage of, such as buying the gourmet sausages in bulk, and using additional ones as part of breakfast the next day, not to mention shared kitchen resources like stoves and pots & pans. We have a lot to offer as teammates, between her mad cooking skillz, my stove, pots & pans, a table, etc. It'd be kind of like your group kitchen concept, except just within our site for 2 meals.

I love this idea. What think you, fellow boyz Team Discovery Channelers?


But as for the site sharing. Ugh, I just don't want 3 tents on our site. As goes my package, so goes my tent (especially when my package is in that tent-ish mode, ya know). In other words, if you will recall, my tent is HUGE. We call it the Sydney Opera House.

Still ... I am personally in favor of splitting the campsite costs evenly among all participants ... regardless of how many tents to a site and how many nights each person stays.

I guess that's harder to do this time, since no campsite monies are required in advance. And people not staying the entire time might be glad to not be subsidizing those who are. But for lord's sake (and not to make light of anyone in financial straights - - there are several at least currently unemployed campers in the mix), the campsites are ultra cheap. Let's just add-up the costs and split it evenly!

If we have an odd number of tents, it's really not quite fair to force the last people to arrive to spend the most money for their tardiness (i.e., not have a campsite to share).

[blueerica]

Same here, Nephy!

I have inputs that are still in my brain from last year's botched attempt to attend the camping trip, but since I'm not going, I'm not officially siding.

I really need to go camping this summer. Hey, maybe we could go together, Nephy. I suspect we don't live all that far apart anymore!

[Morrigoon]

Whoa, okay guys, seriously, I'm discussing things in this thread because it's a discussion thread.

I'm not the one arguing or getting upset at anybody, in fact, I've tried on a couple of occasions to diffuse the vigor of arguments actually taking place. Why I am suddendly being told to "chill" is beyond me, since I am not arguing with anyone and merely attempting to solve some issues/questions in a calm and reasonable manner.

Frankly, if I don't at some point state that hey, I want to be on a bigger team, then who exactly is going to take the initiative to join up with us? And if I wait until the week before, when everyone else has already teamed up (oops, too late already!), you'll tell me I should have asked around earlier.

So I'm asking. I'm not yelling, I'm not snapping at other people, I'm not typing in huge letters or sending out bad mojo. I am merely stating the problem I'm hoping to solve, and trying to solve it with other people who are also interested in planning things out.

Consider this my apology to those who have apparently misinterpreted my tone.

[Alex]

Tents are about the easiest thing in the world to move. So isn't it easy enough to move them around as necessary to hold spaces and preserve individually desired private space?

[Morrigoon]

iSm: let's take this conversation to PM.

[innerSpaceman]

And consider this my BUTT THE FVCK OUT to anyone who's misintpretted our right to discuss the camping trip in the camping trip thread.

As it happens, Kevy, I like to plan things way in advance and then forget about 'em. It keeps the adventure fresh and unanticipated for me. If it were any easier an adventure than camping, I wouldn't think about again till a day or two before I left. Camping requires a little more prep, so I'll pick it up about a week out.


That's just my personal style. And anyone's mileage may vary.



But let's stop all this nonsense about there being arguments and fighting in the planning.

It seems the only arguments are about whether to use the planning thread to plan or whether to use it for complete (but fun) bullsh!t.


How about we do both, and not get on each other's cases for not having the exact same brains and DNA and styles and hair-do's. OK???!

[Nephythys]

Same here, Nephy!

I have inputs that are still in my brain from last year's botched attempt to attend the camping trip, but since I'm not going, I'm not officially siding.

I really need to go camping this summer. Hey, maybe we could go together, Nephy. I suspect we don't live all that far apart anymore!


I will be driving through Utah Saturday :)

[Disneyphile]

****. I'm almost out of booze now. *hic*

[BarTopDancer]

I will be enjoying some wine and crepes in about 90 minutes.

[Not Afraid]

2 vehicles and 6 people maximum per site.

[Disneyphile]

I'm bringing some arm floaties in case I fall in the river.

I'm also bringing 10 years worth of Spam so I can survive if a mothership lands on the main highway. I refuse to let damn road-blocking aliens jeopardize my very being.

[Capt Jack]

any recall of how close the vehicle parking is to the actual camping areas? sort of like last time?

[Disneyphile]

any recall of how close the vehicle parking is to the actual camping areas? sort of like last time?According to the pics I've seen, it's similar to last year's sites.

[innerSpaceman]

BUT ... for only $18 per night, we can buy Separate CampSites For Our Cars!! And keep them out of sight, but sorta nearby!


OR ... we can buy yards and yards of camoflauge netting for the vehicles.


Which would work out cheaper??

[Disneyphile]

I think the camo netting is the way to go. It will also hide us from any air raid assaults.

[Gemini Cricket]

If we get the camo netting, can we play Band of Brothers? I get to be Capt. Lewis Nixon.

[Disneyphile]

If we get the camo netting, can we play Band of Brothers? I get to be Capt. Lewis Nixon.Only if we can vote you off at Camp Council. :p

[Not Afraid]

Depending on where we end up, the sites at SC are comparable of not larger than the ones at Dorst. It also depends on where you put your tent. The river sites are pretty large.

You can't tell where the cars is here, but that's Sheep Creek in the background. This is one of the site on the far right of the campground.

[Ghoulish Delight]

They're right at the site. Depending on the size and layout of the site, it's a longer walk for some sites than others, but it's never more than 20 yards or so.

[Not Afraid]

Here's another. Boy Scout Not Included.

[Sohrshah]

Who is this... Shawshank?

[Ghoulish Delight]

God I need to rescan these photos at a decent resoultion:

(okay, these are technically at Crystal Springs or Azalea or Sunset in the Grant's Grove area, but hey, it's a good excuse to embarrass myself)

[€uroMeinke]

Perhaps we should take a cue from Survior (what follows is hewresay since I've never watched it) and divide into two tribes - One for the planners (Team Anal Retentive?) who can plot out exact car to tent to camper ratios as well as detailed financial spreadsheet including projected losses or gains from attracting last minute campers and forcing them to pay a premiium.

The other tribe (Team Laissez faire?) may or may not show up, won't make any plans in advance, might bring enough food or booze, but might not - they'll arrive unexpected, maybe early, maybe late - and will leave unannounced (when the food & booze run out?) They might even end up in Yosemite instead.

At the end of the trip (if it can be determined) both tribes will post stories and pictures and a disinterested third party (Todd?) will announce a winner

[Gemini Cricket]

I like it. I really do. I'm tellin' ya that. I say, I'm tellin' ya that.

[Ghoulish Delight]

That's patently ridiculous.

Todd is anything but disinterested. :evil:

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Just FYI - planing can go on without me. Something came up for those dates. If things change I will let ya'all know.

[Kevy Baby]

Do the sites have enough room for this tent?

http://homepage.mac.com/kelder/.Pictures/Potrero%20War/DSC00612.jpg

[Morrigoon]

Duuuude... are you seriously thinking about bringing it? haha...

[Capt Jack]

that'd be fantastic!!! we could be the sultans of swank!

[Kevy Baby]

Duuuude... are you seriously thinking about bringing it? haha...No

It requires a trailer to transport (which I could do, but won't) and requires about four people during parts of the set up, which takes about three hours, and the tear-down and packing is about two hours.

It's a bit much.

Although Susan and I will be purchasing something like this (from Panther Primitives (http://www.pantherprimitives.com/medieval.html)) in the near future (but not before this year's swanking):

http://www.pantherprimitives.com/products/tent5.jpg

[Morrigoon]

Wow, yeah, that'd be a bit much for a short weekend. (the set up and tear down, I mean)

[Capt Jack]

http://www.pantherprimitives.com/products/tent22.jpg

me want!!!

[Prudence]

This is the style of tent we have. (http://oldhome.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/sca/tents/kuijt.article/) I highly recommend it. It's plenty big enough for two queen-sized slat beds and lots of stuff. Canvas is breathable so you can actually sleep past dawn, if you choose. And it's tall enough to stand up in. Most important - small enough to easily transport and set-up, and no guy wires to trip over.

Now y'all just need to plan a Camp Swank: Northwest edition to be able to see it.

[blueerica]

Perhaps we should take a cue from Survior (what follows is hewresay since I've never watched it) and divide into two tribes - One for the planners (Team Anal Retentive?) who can plot out exact car to tent to camper ratios as well as detailed financial spreadsheet including projected losses or gains from attracting last minute campers and forcing them to pay a premiium.

The other tribe (Team Laissez faire?) may or may not show up, won't make any plans in advance, might bring enough food or booze, but might not - they'll arrive unexpected, maybe early, maybe late - and will leave unannounced (when the food & booze run out?) They might even end up in Yosemite instead.

At the end of the trip (if it can be determined) both tribes will post stories and pictures and a disinterested third party (Todd?) will announce a winner

If this happens, I'd try to go. And I'd be on Team Laissez-faire. Cuz that's how I roll.

[innerSpaceman]

With all due admiration for €uro's astute and hysterial synopsis of the competing camp styles, I have to point out that it's some of the biggest purported Laissez-faire proponents who have established the need for anal-retentive planning ... namely the TEAM STRUCTURE that's the most frelling anal-retentive camping thing I've ever come across in my life.

That's not to say it isn't successful. I'm a planner and I appreciate it. But nothing comes closer to €uro's satire, and I find it pleasantly ironic.

How about we drop the "edict" of who camps where and with whom, and furthermore forego the anal-retentive planning of meal team members and what they will be cooking?



What's that you say? It allows for much more leisure time on the camping trip? Why, so it does. That's what advance planning accomplishes.


:cheers:


If we're going to build Medieval Pavilions, btw ... that's gonna require a lot of planning.

Will there be jousting??

[Kevy Baby]

Wow, yeah, that'd be a bit much for a short weekend. (the set up and tear down, I mean)We join them (and get one of the two rounds) at the Potrero (SCA) War over Memorial Day weekend and Imperial War over Labor Day weekend. Set it up on Friday and tear down on Monday.

We also set up a communal kitchen/pantry used by three families. The photos are too large to post here, but you can see pix here (http://homepage.mac.com/kelder/PhotoAlbum14.html) (the kitchen and pantry photos are the last five).

[innerSpaceman]

So, um, how come you can't set up Thursday and tear down Monday? It's not like you wouldn't have plenty of help.


It would be so damn cool. :snap:

[Morrigoon]

I could spend days on some of those medieval pavilion pages. Wow.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm reading a book called Here Comes Everybody, about how the Internet's social groupings have changed how groups work.

He details how hard it is to get people together to accomplish things, as we're well aware.

In one part he talks about how easy it is for 2 people to go see a movie, and how it gets harder the more people you add into the mix, due to the exponential math involved.

By the time you want to go to a movie in a group of ten, waiting for forty-five separate agreements is pretty much a lost cause. You could sit around discussing the possible choices all day, with no guarantee you'll get to an agreement at all, much less in time for the movie. Instead you'll vote or draw straws, or someone will just decide to go to a particular movie and invite everyone else along, without trying to take all possible preferences into account. These difficulties have nothing to do with friendship or movie-going specificially; they are responses to the grim logic of group complexity.

Hence, groups designate leaders, or committees, or a hierarchical structure, or something to make these sorts of things work. (The point of the book is that a lot of these problems disappear in Internet groups. It's when we venture into the real world that we get in trouble, isn't it?)

My point? Eh, don't really have one, was just reading and realized it fit in with this thread. The transactional rules are there. Either you obey them or you have nervous breakdown.

[Kevy Baby]

So, um, how come you can't set up Thursday and tear down Monday? It's not like you wouldn't have plenty of help.


It would be so damn cool. :snap:The foot print is about 18' x 40'. I have very serious concerns about finding a spot large enough to place it on.

Also, it is a complicated set up. I would be very worried about trying it without the owner of the tent being there (it is not mine in case I didn't make that clear - it belongs to some friends of ours).

[Kevy Baby]

I could spend days on some of those medieval pavilion pages. Wow.Going to an SCA (or Adria) War is an amazing site. Literally hundreds of pavilion style encampments. It is not only the tents, but all the extras (furniture, etc) too.

[Alex]

My last camping trip I just bought random food on my way at 7-11 and showed up for two days. Ate cold food and shared whatever stray food other people had and slept under my car (I didn't have a tent with me so slept outside, least rocky area was by the parking area, didn't want to get run over by rangers stopping for some reason so slept under the car).

Least planning, most leisure. Still plenty fun (the camping trip before that I slept on the bench of the sites picnic table, waking up every time I was about to fall off).

So I'd be in the "Fully Laissez Faire Camp" and risk going hungry or realizing I forgot my camp stove.

[Gemini Cricket]

I guess you'd just have to make sure your car doesn't leak. Nothing like waking up in the morning with car oil in your teeth...
:D

[Alex]

Well, my car isn't high enough to really sleep under it (especially at my size). More like I was crammed under the driver's side as far as I could get without leaving a permanent crease.

[Not Afraid]

I'm reading a book called Here Comes Everybody, about how the Internet's social groupings have changed how groups work.

He details how hard it is to get people together to accomplish things, as we're well aware.

In one part he talks about how easy it is for 2 people to go see a movie, and how it gets harder the more people you add into the mix, due to the exponential math involved.



Hence, groups designate leaders, or committees, or a hierarchical structure, or something to make these sorts of things work. (The point of the book is that a lot of these problems disappear in Internet groups. It's when we venture into the real world that we get in trouble, isn't it?)

My point? Eh, don't really have one, was just reading and realized it fit in with this thread. The transactional rules are there. Either you obey them or you have nervous breakdown.

Exactly.

Being a professional events planner for almost 20 years has taught me that the "big group decision making process" accomplishes nothing, is frustrating, and does not foster excitement for the event and, in fact, it often alienates people. I MUCH prefer to work with a small planning committee, present the plan to the larger group and move on to accomplish the goal from there. That's the way I work in my professional life and that's the way I prefer to work in my non-professional event planning life.


I've already made a decision that, IF we have a camping event next year, I will either be involved in planning with a small group or I will not be involved at all. This process is too frustrating and maddening for me to take part in. While I love doing things as a group, I like to make solid plans and make them work. If that can't be accomplished with LoT events, I cannot, for my own sanity, be a part of them. I'm too busy to waste time spinning wheels.

[innerSpaceman]

:) What I don't get is why Laissez-Fairies don't just laiss? There's no need to get involved if you don't want to. Certainly not with anything other than the very small group of people you'd be preparing one single meal with.

We didn't even have to make the decision to do meal teams. It was something we liked from last year, and so it was a given without any decisions at all.


:confused: The decisions of where to go and when were a drag at times, and could not be made by a recommendation committee. We wanted to take into account the schedules of as many as possible, and so we conducted a vote. As it turned out, only two solid options of date and location were even presented, so the vote was as easy breezy as could be.


€uro was right that there really need nothing be done by those who want to do nuthin' but show up with your stuff. And the only plan needed is to arrange a single meal with 3 other people.


If other people want to plan what teams they are on, when to arrive, what stuff to make for dinner .... the fact that such discussion goes on in broad daylight where others can read it should not intimidate others into thinking there's too much planning for their tastes. Reading other people's plans is not planning.


:cool: Let's all relax. Laissez-faire means, in large part, let be what will be. So just let those who want to make plans make them. And those who don't want to simply should not.


:cheers: There's no stress, no mess. It's all in the imagination. Now, stand back, 'cause I'm about to make some planning ...


Morrigoon: seeing as Mark may have dropped out (waaaaaa!), it's looking more and more like Rum Gone and Discovery Channel should join forces. The fates are looking kindly to this union ... look at it this way: Gemini Cricket and I were two people who did not witness the Morrigoon Melt-Down at last year's Swank Camp, so we have no prejudice.

And who could be more suited for a Big & Girthy Weenie Roast but me?! :iSm:

[Morrigoon]

(and with any luck, Goonie won't be having her monthly visitor visit her on meal prep day ;))

[Disneyphile]

We'll add Midol to the First Aid kit and/or a sledgehammer to the tool kit, just in case. ;)

[Sohrshah]

Going to an SCA (or Adria) War is an amazing site. Literally hundreds of pavilion style encampments. It is not only the tents, but all the extras (furniture, etc) too.

At Pennsic, there are 14,000 people. the tent city stretched for more than a MILE....

[Not Afraid]

So.....what if we have an earthquake while we're up there? What if it snows? What if a bunch of snow melts and the river floods the whole canyon and we're trapped? What if the Scientologist decide that June 4th-10th is the dates for the Annual Scientology Camping Trip to Kings Canyon? What if Cindy starts her period and we don't have any tampons and the store is closed? What if I decide to start drinking? What if someone "falls" into the rushing river? What if we forget to pack clothes? What if I don't bring poop bags with me? What if the squirrels band together and attack? What if someone get bubonic plague from a squirrel bite? What if Al Qaeda flies a plane into Muir's Pulpit? What if there's an Alien Abduction? Who would they take? What if the country is placed in a state of marshal law? What if we only have white wine and we're serving red meat? What if our cell phones won't work (they won't). What if there's a power failure and all of the ice cream in the general store melts? What if we don't have exact change for the shower? What if Chris finds himself aroused by Kevy's Black Dick? What if it turns out that Kevy's black dick isn't really black but a darn purple? What if NirvanaMan stays sober the entire weekend? What if we get crabs? What if there's no toilet paper? What if there's an accident on the 5 and none of us can get there? What if the campsite has been turned into a development of luxury condos? What if a bear sh!ts in the communal kitchen? What if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it?






(Thanks to Chris to his input and inspiration.)

[Disneyphile]

Four hours and no posts! OMG. We're running out of time, people!!!!


;)

[Sohrshah]

I've been talking about sex on another thread. Sorry.

I could say something ridiculously stupid and llama drama-esque, but seeing as I think most of you still kind of like me, I'd rather keep it that way.

So all that said. I plan to show up with some food and some booze and have a swanking good time, even if just with myself.

[wendybeth]

Hmmmm......I wonder who the aliens would take.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Hmmmm......I wonder who the aliens would take.

Not me, that's for sure.

[Gemini Cricket]

The aliens would take me. Or should I say, take me back.

[Capt Jack]

I plan to show up with some food and some booze and have a swanking good time, even if just with myself.


yeah, that about says it :cheers:

[wendybeth]

Not me, that's for sure.

I dunno- if you wear a lumberjack outfit, they might. Every alien abduction story up here always begins with a big lumberjack guy on some primitive logging road........

(Same for Sasquatch stories).

[Disneyphile]

I dunno- if you wear a lumberjack outfit, they might. Every alien abduction story up here always begins with a big lumberjack guy on some primitive logging road........

(Same for Sasquatch stories).Well, there's our safeguard, then.

We dress Sasquatch in lumberjack attire and he gets abducted while we continue to camp without worry!

Oh, and we totally need these (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Product.aspx?baseno=99725&cdf=TopSeller).

And Thurston needs this (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/413,98889_ABO-Gear-Sleeping-Bag-Canine-Cuddler-For-Pets.html).

[Gemini Cricket]

I think we should start planning the Japan trip tomorrow.









I kid.
:D

[lashbear]

I think we should start planning the Japan trip tomorrow.

I kid.
:D
Why kid ? So, which karaoke bar do we hit first ? ;)

[Morrigoon]

Oh, and we totally need these (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Product.aspx?baseno=99725&cdf=TopSeller).


You kinky girl, you! ;)

I kid, I kid...

[Disneyphile]

You kinky girl, you! ;)

I kid, I kid...I don't kid. ;)

Although, with my dad around, we'll definitely have to coordinate with the other tent at our site to drown out our own sounds like they did for us last year......:evil:

[Not Afraid]

Just when i though I had all of the camping equipment I needed.......I get a dog who needs camping equipment.

[€uroMeinke]

Aww Thurston would be so lonely sleeping in his own bag

[Not Afraid]

You know, STP has an ENTIRE pet section!

[Disneyphile]

You know, STP has an ENTIRE pet section!Yes. And I think Thurston needs one of everything in it. :evil:

[Not Afraid]

For GC:

Cougar Information
Mountain lions, or cougars, roam throughout Sequoia National Park. Your odds chances of seeing one of these secretive animals are low. The likelihood of encountering an aggressive lion is very remote. People are more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by a mountain lion.
Nevertheless, it is wise to be prepared. Avoid hiking alone. Watch children closely. Do not let children run ahead of you on the trail. Hikers in particular are encouraged to read these tips carefully. Following them will allow both you and mountain lions to enjoy the parks safely.
The reclusive behavior of mountain lions and their tendency to live in remote areas explain why we know relatively little about these graceful cats. They once ranged from northern Canada through South American and from coast to coast. Probably no other land mammal in this hemisphere had a more extensive range. Due to hunting and habitat loss, mountain lions have been limited primarily to the West since the 1920's.
For many, the mountain lion is the quintessential symbol of wilderness: a large animal ranging freely in wild areas independent of human interference. Cougars are the largest carnivore in the north coast redwood parks. Cougars are at the top of the food chain and therefore serve as an indicator of the ecosystem's health. When in mountain lion habitat, it is critical to understand the behaviors that cats use to survive. You can then act accordingly to protect yourself and these animals in their native habitat.
Hiker Safety Tips
Don't run. Mountain lions are likely to chase things that run, since they associate running with prey.
Do not bend over or crouch down; try to appear as large as possible. Attempts to hide are likely to be unsuccessful; mountain lions see most people long before people spot them.
Hold your ground or move away slowly while facing the lion.
If you have little children with you, pick them up without bending over.
If the lion behaves aggressively, wave your hands, shout, and throw sticks or stones at it.
If attacked, face the cat and fight back.
Report any lion sightings to a ranger immediately.

[Disneyphile]

Kitties!!!! :D

I'm bringing some large balls of yarn for them to play with.

[Gemini Cricket]

Kitties!!!! :D

I'm bringing some large balls of yarn for them to play with.
Or, if I've read NA's article correctly, we should bring children with us and have them walk in front of us during hikes...
:D

[Disneyphile]

Or, if I've read NA's article correctly, we should bring children with us and have them walk in front of us during hikes...
:DNah. Those won't be needed. I'm planning on scenting the balls of yarn with Eau de Gemini Cricket. :evil:

[wendybeth]

Don't worry, GC- just smack some sticks together; that'll drive them away!;)

[Gemini Cricket]

Nah. Those won't be needed. I'm planning on scenting the balls of yarn with Eau de Gemini Cricket. :evil:
Boy, if my esophagus gets removed by a wild cougar on this camping trip, you're going to feel mighty guilty, I'm tellin' ya that. I said, I'm tellin' ya that.
:D

Surely, iSm will want to lead all hiking trips, won't he?
:D


On a less serious note, I got a backpack today at Costco. It's a camel something that hold water on long hikes. It's spiffy. It's not too expensive either. Get yours tomorrow!

[innerSpaceman]

Not only lead them, I will be tempting many a mountain lion when I likely hike alone in the morning.

I'll be carrying those Eau de Gemini yarn balls, tho.



Oooh, I'm glad you got a camelback, G.C. That's the way to go. That's big-time hiking stuff. If I wake you up early, will you go hiking with me?


(That way, I won't need the yarn balls)

[Gemini Cricket]

Don't worry, GC- just smack some sticks together; that'll drive them away!;)
It's always about sex with you, isn't it, wendybeth?
:D


Oh ho, but Joanna Barnes didn't get eaten by a mountain lion, did she? At least not in the released U.S. version. I hear the director's cut of the 1961 The Parent Trap shows her being mauled by a mountain lion...

:D

[innerSpaceman]

Don't worry, GC- just smack some sticks together; that'll drive them away!

It's always about sex with you, isn't it, wendybeth?

Who let lashbear in the room?


Oh wait, G.C.'s gonna be my tent buddy.



Ok, stick smacking it is! :evil:

[Gemini Cricket]

Who let lashbear in the room?


Oh wait, G.C.'s gonna be my tent buddy.



Ok, stick smacking it is! :evil:
lol! :D

I'll go hiking with you. And if we run into a mountain lion, you yell at it. Just pretend it burned all of the campfire wood. I bet it'll run away. j/k
:D

For the record, I'm not really afraid of wild animals. But it's fun to joke about.

Speaking of sticks, I need a walking stick or staff. Hmmm.

[Mousey Girl]

I have totally enjoyed reading this thread. I wish I could do the whole weekend thing. I still may come up for the day, but that is still pending. Knowing me, I will talk myself out of it.

[innerSpaceman]

G.C. I have two really nice walking sticks which are at your disposal. One's a modern, pro-hiker's walking stick that's got the requisite bounce and is collapsible. The other is a beautiful wooden stick in green with yummy woodgrain stripes that is vaguely Mosesish. They're yours for the duration.


I found them more of a hinderence than a help, but your mileage may very well vary, and it would be nice if they didn't go to waste. They'd love to get out of my closet.




sticks, closets, how many gay entendres can we make from this post??

[Capt Jack]

If attacked, face the cat and fight back.


oh yeah, its on now

http://members.cox.net/capt_jack/image/Picard.gif

[Not Afraid]

Hey, GC. Come up and see me sometime.....

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Robert-Barber/Winking-Cougar-Print-C10054490.jpeg

[€uroMeinke]

My vacation request was declined for the camping trip - so either I'll just come out for the weekend or stay home and mind the boards.

[innerSpaceman]

There's some kind of avian bird flu that is due to arrive from across the pacific in early June, on a friday i think.

[BarTopDancer]

Crete is off (stupid dollar is so stupid low) but I still need to wait and see when we're pushing our software.

[Capt Jack]

My vacation request was declined for the camping trip - so either I'll just come out for the weekend or stay home and mind the boards.

:(

[katiesue]

I can write you a note.

[Not Afraid]

Total suckage.

[innerSpaceman]

So ... um, we don't have reservations. Why don't we just move the camping trip to dates €uro can go??

[Not Afraid]

ALL vacation is being declined for several months to come. He barely squeked by for Coachella at the end of April. I think September is when things open up again.

[Capt Jack]

or we could write THEM a note


wE HaVE ChrIS

sEND $1 MiLLION to kIngs caNyon aND nO one gEts hURT


:argghh:

[Not Afraid]

No, because the next note would be:

Chris and Lisa respectfully request the honor of your presence at the worlds largest garage and home sale. Everything must go because we're TOTALLY BROKE due to loss of job.

[Not Afraid]

So, I have never gone camping by myself. I won't be alone and Thurston will be with me, but can I handle it?

And, who's going to make coffee?

[innerSpaceman]

Pfft. Who's going to make martinis????

[Capt Jack]

I will make all the coffee you can stand my dear.

[Morrigoon]

Can we get any other German philosophers on short notice?

(j/k)