CA Supreme Court to rule on Gay Marriage today (5/15) at 10:00am

[Gemini Cricket]

Patrick said he would repeal it. I remember hearing that when he was campaigning while I was in Boston.
Let's hope he keeps his word. Then again, he is a politician...

[Kevy Baby]

I'm relieved, but confess to being a tad miffed California's economy won't have the lock on out-of-state gay weddings.


Frankly, that was going to be an argument in favor of putting the kibosh on Prop. 8.


Money talks.I doubt that would have any significant impact on this issue. I don't see a lot of the religious right suddenly setting aside their beliefs because it might have a little positive impact on the state economy. If anything, it could work against the "No on 8" movement as the proponents of the amendment would just use as a "look at how weak the "No" argument is - they have to rely on this silly detail."

[JWBear]

I hate the initiative process, and I always have. There’s a reason the founding fathers decided against a direct democracy.

[Kevy Baby]

Lest it be interpreted otherwise, my comments were in no way meant as a slight on the "No on 8" movement. Unless I find something drastically wrong which changes my mind, I shall be voting no on 8. I was just making some observations on the process.

[innerSpaceman]

And this should not be interpreted as a slight on the No on 8 movement, but I'm quitting Love, Honor, Cherish.


There's nothing I've been able to contribute, and going to their meetings just gets me depressed. Mooning over the guy I'm attracted to, who's way out of my league, doesn't help matters either ... but I'm quitting because I have zero to contribute.


Bah.

[Chernabog]

^^ What about doing the phone banking stuff? Theres other avenues to take, that isnt the only game in town.

Also, I thought you volunteered for a few things @ the last meeting, whats up with that?

[Gemini Cricket]

This is awesome!
The House today voted 118 to 35 to repeal a 1913 state law that prevents gay and lesbian couples from most other states from marrying in Massachusetts.
The measure, which the Senate passed earlier this month, will head to the desk of Governor Deval Patrick, who is expected to sign it into law. The move will clear the way for out-of-state couples to marry in Massachusetts, making it the second state to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry regardless of their place of residence.
"I'm glad we finally did it," said Representative Byron Rushing, a Boston Democrat, who described the repeal on the House floor as a "question of fairness and … a question of equality."
Source (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/07/house_expected.html)

[alphabassettgrrl]

Sweet!

Who's next??

[Morrigoon]

HA! Jerry Brown changed the language on Prop 8 (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/07/28/20080728gaymarriagecalif0728-ON.html):

Petitions circulated to qualify the initiative for the ballot said it would amend the state constitution "to provide that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

Last week, in a move applauded by same-sex marriage proponents, Brown's office changed the language on the ballot title and summary of Prop. 8 to say that the measure seeks to "eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry."

Good on him for making it clear what people are voting to do.

[innerSpaceman]

definition of teh awesome

[JWBear]

That'll get the bible thumpers' panties in a wad!

[Tenigma]

Governor signs bill to let out-of-state gay couples marry (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/politics/view.bg?articleid=1110268):

Gay couples from outside Massachusetts are now free to marry in the state.

Gov. Deval Patrick signed a bill today repealing a 1913 law that barred couples from marrying in Massachusetts if their union would not be valid in their own states.

Massachusetts has allowed gay marriages since 2004, but the move to repeal the law makes the state equal with California, which recently became the only other state to legalize gay marriage and has no residency requirement.

Out-of-state gay couples can marry as soon as today, since lawmakers included a provision to make the repeal go into effect immediately.

More at the link.

[Gemini Cricket]

I think that's awesome. So glad that Mitt is no longer Gov of Massachusetts...

[BarTopDancer]

Good for MA!

[Alex]

What's the minimum age you can get married in Massachusetts? Will it become a hot destination for young lovers who live in states with higher limits?

(Not that this would be an argument against what happened, just curious)

[Gemini Cricket]

What's the minimum age you can get married in Massachusetts? Will it become a hot destination for young lovers who live in states with higher limits?

(Not that this would be an argument against what happened, just curious)
Legal age to marry is 18 per the MA gov't website...

[Gemini Cricket]

I saw this commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhhD6Gqz34) last night during the Olympics. I thought it was effective.

[Morrigoon]

I love that ad! It's so cute (for what it is)

[innerSpaceman]

What it is ...


is Awesome.

[BarTopDancer]

I just saw it on ABC Family (during Full House).

It is teh awesome!

[Gemini Cricket]

I mean, they must have spent some dough to show it during the Olympics for CA viewers...

[BarTopDancer]

Totally!

I'm really interested to see where else it shows up. Are they going for the children badgering their parent demographic by having it on ABCFamily?

[innerSpaceman]

Now I'm glad I quit that penny-ante organization Love Honor Cherish, aren't you, GC?


Where do we sign up for Let CalifOrnia Ring? And will they have cuter boys there?

[Morrigoon]

Hallmark's jumping on the bandwagon :)

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26328361/?GT1=43001
Most states don't recognize gay marriage — but now Hallmark does.

The nation's largest greeting card company is rolling out same-sex wedding cards — featuring two tuxedos, overlapping hearts or intertwined flowers, with best wishes inside. “Two hearts. One promise,” one says.

[BarTopDancer]

Can someone direct me to the wording of Prop 8? It needs to be a scholarly or recognized media source (wikipedia and ballotpedia don't count). I found a ballot prop/initiative database but it doesn't list 8.

[Alex]

Accessible from the California Secretary of State's web site (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/vig_11042008_public_display.htm).

Link to the specific text (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/bp_11042008_pres_general/prop_8_text_law.pdf). But here's the entire text:

Section 7.5 Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in the California.

[Alex]

By the way, the docs on that page are draft copies and may change before election day.

[Morrigoon]

I thought the wording WAS changed?

[Kevy Baby]

I thought the wording WAS changed?It was. Previously the text was:

"We don't want none of dem homos gettin' hitched in Caleefornyu."

[Alex]

No, the title (which is the discretion of the Secretary of State, so long as it is accurate) was changed after the state supreme court allowed same sex marriages.

The title now in place ("Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry (http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/bp_11042008_pres_general/prop_8_titlesummary.pdf)") was listed as Limit on Marriage when the petitions were approved. A recent court ruling sided with the secretary of state.

[Gemini Cricket]

Dagburn hummersexuals! Always comin' by and copulating on my lawn! Dagnabbit! And now they wanna get themselves hitched? Not in Yermo, they don't!

[katiesue]

I had a discussion with my cousin about voting no on it. She doens't see why she should bother as she's stratight and none of her gay friends are in serious relationships. So it "doesn't affect her". :rolleyes:

I hope it turns out I'm adopted.

[BarTopDancer]

Thanks! Though I was informed that a ballot proposition isn't the same thing as public policy. I'm going to have to read a bit and email the teacher.

[Chernabog]

Woohoo! My mom dad and I are in a public service announcement on Proposition 8 :) My mom gave the best little chat so she's the one talking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEONx9X1RxA

[Tom]

You have an awesome mom.

[Gemini Cricket]

Woohoo! My mom dad and I are in a public service announcement on Proposition 8 :) My mom gave the best little chat so she's the one talking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEONx9X1RxA
Awwww. Our Chernabog is in this PSA. Soooooo cute!
:)

[innerSpaceman]

How'd they get him to shut up for 2 minutes?:p






C'mon ... that was adorable and all ... but have you ever seen Joe be that silent for that long?

[alphabassettgrrl]

That's awesome!

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Visible Mojo to Mama & Papa Cherny!!
That is so awesome!

[wendybeth]

Cherny, that was awesome. Your parents rock.:)

[Morrigoon]

Brad Pitt contributes to the cause: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx/?news=331142

[innerSpaceman]

So, in the home stretch, I'm wondering if there's anything I can do.

I became disenchanted with LHC because there was nothing for me to contribute. And they were all about fundraising for Equality For All, and I'm disenchanted with what they're doing with the money. That TV ad was cute, but it kind of irked me they felt the need to portray a straight wedding ... unless it was part of a larger campaign, but I haven't seen any further ads. (Of course, um, I don't watch any TV).


Still, I feel very creepy sitting on the sidelines. I want to do something not involved with raising money to advertise. I want to do something directly to convince people on the fence of the right thing to do.


Of course, I've taken on a big project for October that's going to involve all my spare time. But if the election is lost and I haven't done more to affect the outcome, I will feel unbearably guilty.



(I wonder if seeing Brad Pitt's new movie counts as effort.)

[Morrigoon]

Well, what if we organize an effort to reach out to college students and make sure they vote?

[innerSpaceman]

ok!

[BarTopDancer]

Woohoo! My mom dad and I are in a public service announcement on Proposition 8 :) My mom gave the best little chat so she's the one talking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEONx9X1RxA

I was finally able to watch. Good job!

[BarTopDancer]

That TV ad was cute, but it kind of irked me they felt the need to portray a straight wedding ... unless it was part of a larger campaign, but I haven't seen any further ads. (Of course, um, I don't watch any TV).

I think the straight wedding was portrayed to show all the roadblocks that people who are gay are facing. The woman was stopped every step of the way and he was restrained at the end - giving the message what if you had to face all these roadblocks only to be told sorry, you can't get married at the end of the line.

While I have no statistics, I think the hetero population is larger than the homo population in CA and they need to appeal to the hetero population to do what is right and shoot down the prop.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, it was a GREAT commercial. Absolutely terrific in its point and in its application. But if they haven't followed up with anything else (especially for all the money they've raked in), and something that actually depicts gay marriage ... i'm gonna think they cinically calculated that gay would just turn voters off too much.


And then what's the point? If we have to win by losing?



So i just wanna see some gay in their campaign. (But i still don't wanna watch TV)

[Morrigoon]

iSm: I understand what you're saying, but I think they have the right strategy. But as we get near the vote, I think they should change the reference to where instead of referring people to the website, they just put "Vote No on Prop 8". Because the clueless vote too.

[BarTopDancer]

New ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dBUCi32c8) that just played during House. I like that this one appeals to parents (different demographic then the wedding one).

[innerSpaceman]

Thanks BTD. Not nearly as entertaining, but at least they said what the issue was.


I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Polls have the Evil Measure losing by a close margin of 55% against it. But just as Obama may end up losing because, in the privacy of their non-questionnaire souls, too many white people just won't vote for a ni ... a ni ... ya know, the sheriff is a ni...

... well, it just may turn out that more statistically sampled Californians don't like faggots than will admit to it on the telephone.

[Gemini Cricket]

Clay Aiken came out of the closet.
No surprise there.
But he's on the cover of People with his child. "Yes I'm Gay" is printed on the cover in big letters.
I wonder if this will have a positive effect for the No on Prop 8 camp. I hope so.
:)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Clay Aiken came out of the closet.
No surprise there.
But he's on the cover of People with his child. "Yes I'm Gay" is printed on the cover in big letters.
I wonder if this will have a positive effect for the No on Prop 8 camp. I hope so.
:)Well, that should lock up the 57 year old, never-married women ;)

[Chernabog]

But he's on the cover of People with his child. "Yes I'm Gay" is printed on the cover in big letters.


It should have said "Yes I'm Creepy Beyond All Reasonable Belief (But I Have A Cute Profile on Manhunt.net!)" .... or something similar :D

[Chernabog]

Best Yahoo News comment on Aiken coming out:

13. hollaatrgurl - Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:18pm PDT
It's like Michael Jackson all over again...without the monkey, or child molestation, of course.

:D lmao... the interwebs are funny!!!

[Moonliner]

FYI...

Wikileaks has this (http://wikileaks.org/wiki/LDS_Church_Proposition_8_anti-gay_campaign_notes)about the LDS church and prop-8

[Ghoulish Delight]

LA City council had a procedural vote yesterday that set their official position as against Prop 8.

[BarTopDancer]

Thanks BTD. Not nearly as entertaining, but at least they said what the issue was.

I think it will be effective for the demographic they were aiming for, and it was more of a political ad then an entertainment ad (hope that makes sense).

Sadly, my dad is weirded out by "gay marriage" though he's adopted one of my friends as his "gay son". I've tried to use that (and the what if I was gay, you wouldn't want me marrying the person I love just because it wouldn't be a guy" analogy) on him. His issue is with the term "marriage". While "marriage" may have started out as a religious thing, it's turned into a verb, like Google.

I was happy to see another ad on the issue, during primetime, on Fox and I hope it reaches the inner cockles of the parental generation and helps them relate, as parents to the issue.

[Kevy Baby]

I have been meaning to look this up, but I just don't have the time.

I was listening to some people who say that if Prop 8 passes, that their church can be sued if they refuse to marry homosexuals. On the surface, this sounds like hogwash, but I can see some potential (legal) validity to this.

Anybody got any info on this?

[Morrigoon]

The government cannot interfere with the free practice of religion. I can't walk in wearing a reversed cross and a "love satan" t-shirt and expect them to want to baptise me, KWIM?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Um, I assume you mean if Prop 8 doesn't pass. If it does pass, it will be against the California constitution for people of the same sex to get married, so I can't imagine having it pass would lead to church's getting sued.

If you meant if it doesn't pass, then that's the situation we're in now, where the state recognizes same sex marriages. In that case I don't know what the case would be, but the supreme court of the state ruled that the state must recognize marriages between same sex couples, not that anyone would be forced to perform the service so I can't imagine anyone winning such a suit.

[innerSpaceman]

No of course that's hogwash, Kevy. And blatant LDS propaganda.


Government officials will have to mary queers, churches will not.



By the way, I will be coming out of wedding officiant retirement to perform gay weddings if Prop 8 fails. But I can't be sued for not performing straight weddings. :p

[Morrigoon]

Hmm... I wonder if enough people will make the mistake in our favor in the voting booth?

Better make sure everyone on the "no" side knows to vote no though!

[Ghoulish Delight]

I have been meaning to look this up, but I just don't have the time.

I was listening to some people who say that if Prop 8 passes, that their church can be sued if they refuse to marry homosexuals. On the surface, this sounds like hogwash, but I can see some potential (legal) validity to this.

Anybody got any info on this?
But now that I think about it, tell them that they're right. That if prop 8 passes, their church will be overun by the gay and they will all go to jail if all members of the congregation don't immediately begin having gay sex.

No on 8!

[innerSpaceman]

What was it only altar boys that got to have sex with Catholic priests? I've always wanted to do that, in the confessional booth.

Hmmm, so if Prop 8 fails, maybe I'll be able to sue for my chance! :evil:

[Kevy Baby]

Um, I assume you mean if Prop 8 doesn't pass.DOH! Yes, you are correct.

No of course that's hogwash, Kevy. And blatant LDS propaganda.I figured as much, but I wanted wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind (okay, that DID happen a long time ago). And I know that one of the two callers I heard did specifically say they were LDS.

[Alex]

I can see a slim argument if church weddings are considered a public accommodation.

But churches are currently allowed to refuse to perform plenty of otherwise legal marriages (a Catholic Church is free to refuse to marry people who are previously divorced) so I don't think anyone is likely to make the argument.

[JWBear]

I read one legal opinion (I'll try and find it again later, when I have more time) that no such lawsuit would stand. However, if there is a church that routinely rents out their facilities to non-church members, it is a public accommodation, and has to allow gays (or anyone, for that matter) to rent the facilities for weddings.

[Gemini Cricket]

I have been meaning to look this up, but I just don't have the time.

I was listening to some people who say that if Prop 8 passes, that their church can be sued if they refuse to marry homosexuals. On the surface, this sounds like hogwash, but I can see some potential (legal) validity to this.

Anybody got any info on this?
-
There is an important difference between religious marriage and civil marriage. Religious groups and clergy members have a constitutionally protected right to recognize or refuse to recognize religious marriages based on the tenets of their particular faith. That has not changed and will not change (if Prop 8 is voted down). But the government can't treat same-sex couples differently when issuing civil marriage licenses or solemnizing civil marriages.

[katiesue]

I don't think they could force churches to perform the ceremonies. If you're not an LDS Church member you can't even attend a wedding in the Temple in Salt Lake. If you're not Catholic you can't be married in a Catholic Church or be married without going through their counseling. I don't see how performing or not performing a gay marriage would be any different than the restrictions on a hetro one.

[Pirate Bill]

If you're not an LDS Church member you can't even attend a wedding in the Temple in Salt Lake.

LDS bishops do, on occasion, perform marriages outside the temple. These marriages (as well as any other legally recognized marriage between one man and one woman) are currently recognized by the church.

[Ghoulish Delight]

LDS bishops do, on occasion, perform marriages outside the temple. These marriages (as well as any other legally recognized marriage between one man and one woman) are currently recognized by the church.
That's not what is at issue, however. The point is that the church of LDS retains the right to refuse to perform a marriage if they don't want to.

[Gemini Cricket]

My eyes went crossed for a second. I went over to MP to look through a thread where I posted a Letter to the Editor that I wrote. I went through a loooong thread about SSM. It made it to 1000 posts without being closed. I thought that was cool. It was civil and intelligent. Anyway, I found what I was looking for.
Flashback-o-rama!
:D

[Kevy Baby]

-There is an important difference between religious marriage and civil marriage. Religious groups and clergy members have a constitutionally protected right to recognize or refuse to recognize religious marriages based on the tenets of their particular faith. That has not changed and will not change (if Prop 8 is voted down). But the government can't treat same-sex couples differently when issuing civil marriage licenses or solemnizing civil marriages.Thank you. While it is not an official, cited source, it does provide a solid answer.

That's not what is at issue, however. The point is that the church of LDS retains the right to refuse to perform a marriage if they don't want to.To be honest, I believe that churches (not just LDS) should be able to retain the right to refuse to perform a Constitutionally legal marriage.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I never said I disagreed with that.

[innerSpaceman]

Neither did I. We said just the opposite, and all along. It's a canard raised by churches as a fearmongering tactic to protect a friggin' word.

[JWBear]

If 8 passes (Goddess forbid!) I think we should start a petition to get an initiative on the ballot to change all government sanctioned marriages into Domestic Partnerships in the state of California. Make it law that only churches can call them "marriages". That preserves the religious use of marriages being only one man and one woman; and it makes sure that all couples, be they gay or straight, are treated equally under the law!

(Did that make any sense? I'm sleepy, and I re-wrote it 3 times.)

[Andrew]

If 8 passes it will immediately (the same day) be challenged and enjoined in court. I seem to recall there is a problem with the language that makes it a Constitutional revision, not an amendment, which may not be done through the initiative process.

Ah, found it (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=California_Proposition_8_(2008)#La wsuit_filed_to_strike_from_ballot). That effort seems to be on hold right now but be assured it will be mounted again should the initiative actually pass.

[Gemini Cricket]

Thank you. While it is not an official, cited source, it does provide a solid answer.

It is from the No on 8 site.
Source (http://www.noonprop8.com/about?id=0004)
I also emailed one of my friends with Equality California. His answer was the same.

[Kevy Baby]

It is from the No on 8 site.
Source (http://www.noonprop8.com/about?id=0004)
I also emailed one of my friends with Equality California. His answer was the same.Even better; it is now an official cited source! Even more thanks!

[BarTopDancer]

New ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6dBUCi32c8) that just played during House. I like that this one appeals to parents (different demographic then the wedding one).

They just aired this ad on NBC (literally just before the opening debate credits)

[blueerica]

Just caught this. (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-position-on-californias-no-on-8.html)

I heart Google.

[Strangler Lewis]

Some of the pro-8 pieces I've seen lately, including one on Farmer McGregor's web site, seem to have abandoned arguments about the sanctity or definition of marriage in favor of an attack on gay parenting.

[Gemini Cricket]

The Log Cabin Republicans released this commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwoVtFIBBpc) urging Republican voters to say No on 8.

[blueerica]

HAHA, I just realized that my above link came from GC via Facebook...

Gotta love my friends! ;)

[BarTopDancer]

Some of the pro-8 pieces I've seen lately, including one on Farmer McGregor's web site, seem to have abandoned arguments about the sanctity or definition of marriage in favor of an attack on gay parenting.

I saw one pro-8 commercial last night. I believe this is it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKn5LNhNto)

Idiots.

Well no sht Sherlock. If you had accepted it to begin with you would have been tolerant!

[Moonliner]

Just caught this. (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-position-on-californias-no-on-8.html)

I heart Google.

I keep checking to see if LoT makes it on their list of links to the blog. No luck yet.

[Gemini Cricket]

HAHA, I just realized that my above link came from GC via Facebook...

Gotta love my friends! ;)
And I think I got it from CP!
:D

[Morrigoon]

I saw one pro-8 commercial last night. I believe this is it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKn5LNhNto)

Idiots.

Well no sht Sherlock. If you had accepted it to begin with you would have been tolerant!
Disabled text comments, but not video responses... Hmm....

[Morrigoon]

Somebody probably got their butt fired for this (http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/what-is-disneys-involvement-with-gay.html).

Honestly, how stupid do you have to be to use your Disney.com email address to promote your hate campaign (or any other political use)?

[Kevy Baby]

Somebody probably got their butt fired for this (http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/what-is-disneys-involvement-with-gay.html).

When did Greg start working for Disney?
When did he get a sex change?
Is he really in favor of Prop 8?I'm very confused.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I saw one pro-8 commercial last night. I believe this is it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKn5LNhNto)And a video rebuttal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY) to it.

[innerSpaceman]

That's pretty good. Just on YouTube, or will it be airing on TV, too???

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I imagine just YouTube.

[Snowflake]

I heart Cherny's (all of them)

737

738

Love, Honor and Cherish is right, dammit! (I mean left, no right, correct)

[Gemini Cricket]

Awww. So cute.
:)

[innerSpaceman]

I'd do him.

[Kevy Baby]

I'd do him.Haven't you?

But then again, who hasn't?

[innerSpaceman]

um, me.



Yes, I'm one of five gay men in the greater Los Angeles area.









OMG, poor Cherny and his not entirely underserved reputation!

[Isaac]

I'm just amused that he has a bf called BJ. How fitting :D

I didn't know Cherny did a video for prop. 8.

[BarTopDancer]

I didn't know Cherny did a video for prop. 8.

against.

[Gemini Cricket]

Hmmm. Can I be just a tad bit offended for Cherny on his behalf?
Thanks.
;)

[innerSpaceman]

Eh, I think he knows we jest about his rep, and that it's just a cover for how jealous we are that he seems to attract men like moths to flame.



Which in his case, is too appropriate, if I may return to snark.






I'm also sure the irony of a boyfriend named BJ has not eluded him. ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Irony? I've been assuming his name isn't "BJ" at all, but that Cherny's just taken to calling him that for convenience sake.

[Isaac]

against.
I know ;)

[Morrigoon]

It was a good joke back in high school too, but you're all going to love him.

[Isaac]

Hey, can someone link me to Cherny's clip ?

[innerSpaceman]

Hmmm, I can't find the the individual one ... but This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEONx9X1RxA) is a pastiche of the various PSA's produced by LoveHonorCherish, and Joe's is in the mix, including the cutie patootie head shot of Cherny posted above.


(Joe didn't say much during the full version ... I think it was the quietest I've ever seen him be.)

[lashbear]

Government officials will have to mary queers
Best. Typo. Ever. :snap:

Haven't you?
But then again, who hasn't?
I tried to at the Roosevelt Hotel over dinner, but I knocked over the bottle of Fuzzy water and got NA all wet.

...sorry, what did you say?

[Snowflake]

Hey, can someone link me to Cherny's clip ?

Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEONx9X1RxA&eurl=http://lj-toys.com/?journalid=5380095&moduleid=90&preview=&auth_token=sessionless:1223006400:embedcontentiurl =http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/qEONx9X1RxA/default.jpg)

[Not Afraid]

I tried to at the Roosevelt Hotel over dinner, but I knocked over the bottle of Fuzzy water and got NA all wet.

...sorry, what did you say?

Oh, is THAT what happened? I just thought it was because I was sitting with all of these handsome men! :giggle:

[Gemini Cricket]

According to the poll, likely California voters overall now favor passage of Proposition 8 by a five-point margin, 47 percent to 42 percent. Ironically, a CBS 5 poll eleven days prior found a five-point margin in favor of the measure's opponents.
Source (http://cbs5.com/politics/proposition.8.poll.2.834082.html)
Something to think about.

[innerSpaceman]

Or, in my case, something to lose sleep about. Something to feel guilty about.

[Moonliner]

Source (http://cbs5.com/politics/proposition.8.poll.2.834082.html)
Something to think about.

Not being in Cali, I have not been following this very closely. Are you saying that a vote of 'Yes' means you are against gay marriage and 'No' means you are for it?

Brilliant! All those mouth breathing inbreads that come in to vote against gay marriage ain't a gonna say 'Yes' to it they is gonna vote 'Hell no'.

[Gemini Cricket]

"No" means you are against a same-sex marriage ban.
"Yes" means you are for a same-sex marriage ban.

[Moonliner]

"No" means you are against a same-sex marriage ban.
"Yes" means you are for a same-sex marriage ban.

Ahh! So that is what you are saying. Again, Brilliant!

I'll bet the measure picks up at least a 20% boost from morons who thought they were voting 'No' to gay marriage.

[Kevy Baby]

Something to think about.Hopefully, all it means is that polls are inaccurate.

[Moonliner]

Hopefully, all it means is that polls are inaccurate.

Unfortunately I doubt that. Polling has shown that polls are always accurate.

[BarTopDancer]

Unfortunately I doubt that. Polling has shown that polls are always accurate.

Depends how they phrase the question.

[JWBear]

Well... 100% of the people I just polled think McCain is a war mongering doodoo head; so it must be true. right?

[Ruthie]

No wonder I keep getting mixed up on which vote, yes or no, is for NOT banning gay marriages. I easily flip numbers too.

No worries about me voting the wrong way though, I am not in CA.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Gender Auditors (http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/noonprop8)

[Gemini Cricket]

I recently had a civilized yet lengthy discussion with someone from London over at YouTube about gay marriage. He was against the use of the word "marriage" when referring to the gays. I explained that I would be happy if all unions in the eyes of the gov't were called "civil partnerships" (or whatever) and leave it up to the religions to decide what is and isn't "marriage" in their eyes. We agreed on that...

[alphabassettgrrl]

I could vote for that, too, cricket.

[BarTopDancer]

I recently had a civilized yet lengthy discussion with someone from London over at YouTube about gay marriage. He was against the use of the word "marriage" when referring to the gays. I explained that I would be happy if all unions in the eyes of the gov't were called "civil partnerships" (or whatever) and leave it up to the religions to decide what is and isn't "marriage" in their eyes. We agreed on that...

My co-worker, who is a mix of super Christian let go and let God and for the love of all things who cares if the gays can have a legal union is along those lines. Apparently the Christian's have a huge issue with the word "marriage". I explained that "marriage" has become like a verb, like Google. It seems to have sunk in, with her at least - people don't want to undermine religion, they just want the same rights. She's voting No.

[mousepod]

Breaking news: Connecticut Supreme Court Overturns Ban (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27117467/).

[Morrigoon]

Heh, I was just coming here to post that :)

[Andrew]

Breaking news: Connecticut Supreme Court Overturns Ban (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27117467/).
That makes me so happy I can't adequately express it in words. Three down, 47 to go?

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Do you think Utah or a Southern state will be last?

[Morrigoon]

I think those final states will not be resolved unless there is a battle at the Federal level

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I agree Morrigoon. There's no way the theocratic states will accept this reality until forced to do so.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, yes, this makes me so happy ... but I gotta say I'm also deathy afraid Prop H8TE is moving towards passage in California, and it will take many more years of court battle to reverse that.


Legal Gay Marriage in the United States as a whole is decades away. I many not live to see it. :(

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I do not think I will live to see it. Too many people need to die off for that to happen.

[Morrigoon]

People aren't going to give up a right now that they're getting it. The fight will continue until it's won.

[Chernabog]

The EQCA is coming out with a series of 3 ads to counter the lies of the Yes on 8 people (you know, the ads where they talk about how children will be taught gay marriage in kindergarten, how clergy will be sued for not performing gay marriages, etc.).

People are so stupid... first off, we HAVE gay marriage in California already, and NONE of those things are happening, so that might tip one off that the ads are lies. Not to mention the fact that neither the education code nor the proposition states anything about teaching gay marriages. Or that the CA Supreme Court decision specifically says that clergy do not have to perform gay marriages. Or that the other things that they are saying in the commercial were going to be in the ballot description, but were ruled off the ballot by a judge because they weren't true. (Unfortunately, they can say whatever the f they want in a commercial)

These fVcking Mormons (sorry people, gloves are off, the Mormon Church can suck my left testicle, I have as much respect for them as I do the KKK) keep talking about these "activist judges" that make these "homosexual agenda" decisions...

Ummmm excuse me?

Who wrote the California ruling? Chief Justice of the California Supreme Court, Ronald George, a conservative Republican is now an activist judge? Interpreting the State Constitution isn't "making law" it is... interpreting the constitution. Which is what judges are supposed do do.

I'm going to a fundraiser this Sunday. I need to do more, because if we lose the right to marry and I don't do more than I've done, I'll feel horribly guilty about it.

Sorry, but someone saying they're voting yes is like calling me a faggot to my face.

[BarTopDancer]

There is a No on 8 fundraiser at the old Boom Boom Room in Laguna tonight. I don't know any more than that though.

[innerSpaceman]

Two of the nicest people I know in the world are Mormons, and they are in fact 2 of my 3 co-hosts at an upcoming major event. I haven't said a word to them, because I seriously fear their answers might mean that I might not be able to bear working with them on this mega-project, and I just cannot chance that happening right now.


But ... being that weddings figure in a little bit to this event, and that this event happens just a few days before election day ... I'm probably going to say a few words at this event designed to influence the vote of these two people in particular. And if hard feelings ensue between us as a result, then at least the project and event will be over ... and I hope our friendships won't.


But seriously, if I learn of anyone I know voting Yes on Proposition H8TE, i will be hard-pressed to be their friend thereafter.

[Morrigoon]

I know an ex-Mormon who is getting infuriated by the "yes" stuff she's getting from her Mormon friends, and she's responding encouraging them to vote "no". Yay!

[BarTopDancer]

The decision marks the first time that a court rejected civil unions as an alternative to granting gay couples the right to marry.

From here (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icO-Xd9Mq4OlFVbLsg9-JGqaWUegD93NTDLG0)

First time that seperate but equal by name is not has been recognized.

[lashbear]

He was against the use of the word "marriage" when referring to the gays.
I think that if Prop h8te succeeds, we should ban ALL non-marriage uses of the word Marriage.

No longer is Chef Blahblah's Amuse Bouche a "Perfect Marriage of Tuna, wasabi & chantilly cream" - sorry, they're not Man & Woman, and there's three of them. That's NOT a real marriage at all. Stop abusing this fine word, folks.

[BarTopDancer]

The EQCA is coming out with a series of 3 ads to counter the lies of the Yes on 8 people (you know, the ads where they talk about how children will be taught gay marriage in kindergarten, how clergy will be sued for not performing gay marriages, etc.)

Here's (https://www.kintera.org/site/c.krLRKXPBLqF/b.4630765/apps/ka/sd/donor.asp?c=krLRKXPBLqF&b=4630765&en=otLSIYOMIdIKJ7MTLeJKJZMELjI5KaMMIoJWK9NRImI3LdO ULxE) one of the new ads. Just saw it on Discovery during MythBusters.

[Chernabog]

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/08/30/six-big-lies-the-freedom-haters-are-spreading-about-proposition-8/

Read that. It is a REALLY good breakdown of all the lies of the Yes on Prop 8 people. It is long but very well written.

[blueerica]

I am soooo excited to get my absentee ballot this year!

BUT - when will it finally get here?!?!?!

[blueerica]

Marriage, 6-year-old Nolan Alexander said Friday, is "people falling in love."
It means, he added, "You stay with someone the rest of your life."

Full story here. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/11/MNFG13F1VG.DTL)

While I could see that it iscontroversial, I'll assume that no one forced anyone's child to go on this field trip, negating what I'm sure the Prop H8TE people are sure to be saying about it.

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't see any problem with the field trip, but I don't like see kids used as props in political campaigns. The six-year-old kid quoted above wasn't born trailing clouds of glory with intuitive knowledge about marriage. He was told that by someone I happened to agree with. They could quote some pro-8 kid about God's plan for man and woman, and I'd disagree.

[blueerica]

I think you mean Pro-8... right?

[alphabassettgrrl]

California Education Code permits school districts to offer comprehensive sex education, but if they do, they have to "teach respect for marriage and committed relationships."

So far so good.

As is the case with all field trips, parents had to give their permission and could choose to opt out of the trip. Two families did. Those children spent the duration of the 90-minute field trip back at school with another first-grade class, the interim director said.

Sounds like a good plan. I'd say it would be a problem if it was done in secret, but if everybody knows what's going on, I don't see any problem at all. Like somebody in the article said, teacher's marriage is legal.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, but why take kids on a field trip to a wedding? From the article, it seemed as if the teacher is claiming there was a legitimate civil rights issue being taught, but it seems to me the kids were a tad too young for that sort of thing.

[Morrigoon]

Because experiences outside the classroom are enriching, and because it was a darn nice thing to do. Isn't it time we taught kids to do nice things?

:)

[BarTopDancer]

Not done in secret, correct. Yet unless they take students to a straight wedding too they just played into the most recent Yes on 8 commercial. Now, this took place in SF, which is way more 'gay friendly' then the Central Valley probably is. Yet, the Central Valley people are going to read about it and go omg, those Yes on 8 commercials are right! My kid is going to be forced to learn about gay weddings. I better vote to take away these rights! Why won't someone think of the children!?!?

I despise children being used as a political props, and in this case it applies. Nice idea, yes. Timing is terrible though.

As horrible as it is, this race is very close. I see more and more yes on 8 signs in car windows and on lawns then I do no on 8 signs. People really need to watch their actions to not scare those borderline voters, who really are undecided. Or those voters who are against gay marriage for whatever reason but aren't against taking away rights. It it time for firmly walking on eggshells, not "whether you like it or not!" campaigning and behavior. The in your face/deal with it is just going to backfire.

[innerSpaceman]

Yep, it was a nice thing to do ... but so unbelievably stupid. And frankly it was age-inappropriate for any purported educational value. And sorry, but teachers are not supposed to take kids on field trips because it's "nice."

[MouseWife]

I agree they are too young for this. Perhaps high school kids and have them go to both types of weddings?

Reminds me of when my son was in 6th grade and they wanted to take them to the Museum of Tolerance {many may remember this} and I said they were too young. They felt it was appropriate with the many Hispanics in our school and the issues surrounding that fact.

When it came down to it, the museum itself would not allow them to go through the Holocaust part of the museum because of their age.

I was a bit ha! because I was one of the only parents I knew of to say it was wrong and the museum actually backed me up when the principal and teachers would not.

But, yeah, I agree with BtD. I may have just played into their hands. I hope we are not seeing too many 'No On 8' signs just because people are being private.

I was telling a friend that all of this is that when this is over, I am going to have a hard time looking at those 'Yes On 8' people and like them. It is wrong to deny people their lives, essentially. A partner, someone to share their lives with? Wrong. To give them rights {which actually even heterosexual couples have problems with, right? Didn't Sandra Bullock have issues when her boyfriend was in the hospital and they wouldn't let her see him or let her make certain decisions? I'm not sure but I know it was something.}

I spoke with someone yesterday who said their church had requested they fast for Prop 8? I heard a big church, the Rock church, also asked for that.

Such love. :rolleyes:

'And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, yes they'll know we are Christians by our love..... :(

[alphabassettgrrl]

I see a difference between taking the kids to "a" wedding, and taking them to "their teacher's" wedding.

I do agree that children shouldn't be used as political props.

My neighbor just put up a "yes" sign; I need to ask husband if it's ok to put up a "no on 8".

[JWBear]

According to the article, it was one of the parent's idea - not the school's.

[Gemini Cricket]

Kids are used as political props all the time. There were several parents who brought their kids to hold "Protect Traditional Marriage" signs in Boston and Honolulu.

I see no problem with parents deciding that their kids should attend their teacher's wedding. And the other people who disapproved of seeing kids there need to butt out.

If I had children, I would let them go to a gay wedding. Totally.

[BarTopDancer]

If I had children, I would let them go to a gay wedding. Totally.

I would too, and I hope to do so. I just think that something nice for their teacher turned into something it shouldn't have purely based upon the timing.

It is their teachers wedding. It just so happens that their teacher is a lesbian. What turned into a fun surprise is being turned into this class went to their lesbian teachers wedding.

[MouseWife]

That is a point, I don't want to read the article, but, was it during school hours? If it wasn't, why was it even called a field trip? How about just that they were invited? Why was a teacher married during school hours?

And, yes, you are right. I have seen kids saying so many things that you know they had to have learned it from someone. Certain things are not just in their minds. You don't learn hate from Sesame Street and Sponge Bob.

Aw, GC, you would be a wonderful parent.

[innerSpaceman]

It was at noon. It was nice. It was stupid.

[BarTopDancer]

At least it was a private charter school.



Saw this today

http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/ellen-degeneres-portia-derossi-our-mere-existance.jpg?w=400&h=600

[Ghoulish Delight]

A couple images from the Griffith Observatory parking lot yesterday:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/2943816233_bb94e917fb_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2943817547_40968e7cfe_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/2943822623_839c63d513_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2944684228_58e5fde192_b.jpg


:snap:

[Kevy Baby]

A couple images from the Griffith Observatory parking lot yesterdayWas this a particular event?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Seemed like a wedding. Don't know if it was just for show, pre-wedding photos, or what. We just noticed a bunch of people dressed in cool outfits as we were getting back to our car, then I saw the "No on 8" sign on the bike.

[BarTopDancer]

I belong to EQCA on Facebook and they sent out this message the other day. It's basically a beg for donations email but it has some interesting numbers.

It's long.

Dear Members,

The latest tracking polls show that if the election were held today among voters who have seen both our ads and the other side’s ads that we would WIN!

Unfortunately, we don’t have sufficient funds to get our ads seen by all the voters who’ve seen the other side’s ads. So it’s that simple…without more funds we’ll lose.
But we will win if we have enough money to reach voters. So DONATE NOW!

A powerful array of motivated groups have organized against us. Yesterday’s Sacramento Bee reported that:

“Mormons…have emerged as the leading financial contributors to the controversial Nov. 4 ballot measure. Church members have donated about 40 percent of the $22.8 million raised to pass the initiative since July.”

What is also unfortunate is that only 30,000 people have donated to the No on 8 campaign compared to the 60,000 who have donated to the other side.

In a state with about two million LGBT people, in a country with millions more and tens of millions of straight allies, we have to get everyone to support this fight. If every LGBT person donates we can win!
Yesterday’s Sacramento Bee also reported on the sacrifices being made by members of the Yes on 8 campaign:

"That's why Auburn resident David Nielson, 55, is giving…He and his wife, Susan, live on a budget. The couple donated $35,000, he said, "because some things are worth fighting for." The couple will forgo a vacation for the next two years and make other sacrifices to pay for their donation, he said.”

So, what is your equality worth to you? What is your equality worth to your friends and family? How much will you sacrifice for your own freedom?

We are running out of time. We need your support now. We need the support of your friends and family now. DONATE NOW! FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL OF YOUR CONTACTS!
In solidarity,

Geoff Kors
Executive Director
Equality California

You can donate here:
https://secure.ga4.org/01/unfair

[SzczerbiakManiac]

A great video rebuttal for the Yes on H8 commercial with that Pepperdine jack@ss:
http://milkfat.com/proph8.htm

[katiesue]

There have been people with Yes on 8 Signs out on my way to work. One sign says Yes on 8 = Free Speech. I don't get it. What does 8 have to do with free speech?

[Morrigoon]

Just needs the tagline "For the privileged few"

[Morrigoon]

Just got an idea for a political cartoon. Group of Klansmen in full sheet, holding "Yes on 8" and "Free Speech" signs

[Gemini Cricket]

Just got an idea for a political cartoon. Group of Klansmen in full sheet, holding "Yes on 8" and "Free Speech" signs
If only we knew someone who could draw... Hmmm.

[Morrigoon]

I almost threw it together on MS paint, but then decided that would be a bad drawing to do on a work machine, despite the lofty intentions.

[Strangler Lewis]

I think there should be bumper stickers that say "Protect Marriage: No on 8" or "No on 8: No Special Rights."

[Morrigoon]

SL: I agree, especially on the Protect Marriage one. Hadn't thought of the "no special rights" one, but I like that a lot too!

[BarTopDancer]

Equality CA is offering a match on donations to No on 8 (http://www.eqca.org/site/pp.asp?c=kuLRJ9MRKrH&b=4026385).

Philanthropist Steve Bing and Equality California are offering a ONE MILLION DOLLAR CHALLENGE GRANT so this ad can reach California’s undecided voters.

For every dollar donated between now and Sunday at midnight your gift will be matched dollar for dollar.

[Isaac]

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_field31.e07797.html?npc


Prop. 8 support growing


GAY MARRIAGE BAN: "It's a close call," says a Field Poll official. Still, those likely to vote no are in the lead.

SACRAMENTO - California's ballot battle over same-sex marriage will go down to the wire, a new poll suggests, with those who want to ban the practice closing the gap among a deeply divided electorate.
The nationally watched fight has topped $90 million in fundraising and split the state by region, ideology, religion and other grounds, a Field Poll released today shows.
Forty-four percent of likely voters support Prop. 8, which would outlaw same-sex marriage in the state constitution, the survey found. That is up from 38 percent who said they backed it in a Field Poll last month.