Minority Report

[Ghoulish Delight]

To stop the derail.

To be perfectly honest, I hated the movie so much that I can't even recall even a fraction of what I hated about it. All I really remember is that about 1/3 of the way in, CP and I both naturally turned to each other and gave the mutual, "Is it just me or is this utter crap?" look.

I'm looking around at reviews, and it's refreshing my memory some. There are, of course, the plot holes, but my disdain for the movie began long before the plot got far enough to have any holes. I abhored the entire style of the movie. Gimmicky technology, cheeseball editing, bizarro establishing shots with idiotic slapstick bits seen through windows.

And then there's the jetpack cooking a burger scene. W....T....F?!?!

I'm well aware I'm in the minority, but I don't really care. It was a painful viewing experience that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

[scaeagles]

I hated it too. Like with most movies I hate, I don't care to remember enough about it to talk about why I hated it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Damnit Speilberg! You've made me agree with scaeagles! Oh, the evil you have wrought!!!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I will jump into the fray and be contrary.

I do remember two scenes. One involved an eyeball and one involved a billboard that spoke directly to you and knew your life/purchase history/etc.

But I can't be contrary about the quality. I hated it.

[JWBear]

...a billboard that spoke directly to you and knew your life/purchase history/etc....

Unfortunately, I see this in the not too distant future. :rolleyes:

[Deebs]

It has its own thread now, GD? GD! Well, now I guess I'll have to see it.

[mousepod]

I think I'm going to have to watch Minority Report and A.I. as a double feature this week, because I have no memory of either of these movies being bad at all, much less the stinkers that some of my friends seem to think they are.

This won't be an official casa de mousepod© screening, but if anyone wants to join me, lemme know.

I have a short list of films that I wish I had walked out on: Tank Girl, The Addiction, In The Realm of the Senses, Yessongs all spring to mind. But these... I remember really enjoying 'em.

...we are due for a screening though, aren't we?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Gaaah, I'm beginning to wonder how we can possibly get along so well. Tank Girl?! I LOVE tank girl. I mean, it's hardly cinematic genius, but I always have a ton of fun watching that movie.

[Deebs]

Why do I have to live where I live?

Grrrrrrr.

A.I. was different and better than I expected it to be. It's been a long time since I watched it though.

[scaeagles]

Damnit Speilberg! You've made me agree with scaeagles! Oh, the evil you have wrought!!!

My new goal is to agree with you as much as possible.

[Ghoulish Delight]

My new goal is to agree with you as much as possible.
A worthy goal that all should aspire to.

[Deebs]

Minority Report sucks.

How am I doing, GD?

[JWBear]

My new goal is to agree with you as much as possible.

Including voting for Obama? Good man!

[innerSpaceman]

And I LOVE Minority Report.

Though I didn't when I first saw it. First, the trailer had given away all but one of the action setpieces, definition of "Spoiler." I also was bothered that the whodunit was obvious, when what was not-so-obvious was that the movie is a prime example of style over substance.


It's a brilliant homage to noir filmmaking, with no less hackneyed a plot than the myriad films it salutes.


I loved the blue/white, washed out cinematography and art design that perfectly conveyed both Noir and Future, capturing the essence of Philip K. Dick's mileau.


I even, lord help me, enjoyed Tom Cruise's performance, was enthralled with Samantha Morton's, and don't much care if Colin Farrell reads the phonebook. Spielberg's proficient directorial flair was on display throughout.

It had a neat sci-fi, moral-dilemma gimmick concept, and a fun Noir film wrongly-accussed man-on-the-run plot. Well-executed in every department. I daresay far better than most of the films it cribbed from.



I have no idea what's not to like about this movie ... except, of course, that I didn't much like it when I first saw it. I'm glad something persuaded me to give it a second chance. It's easily one of my favorite hundred films.

[scaeagles]

Including voting for Obama? Good man!

Let me rephrase.

For rhetorical purposes of bringing GD pain, I will pretend to agree with GD as often as possible.

[mousepod]

GD - my guess about our respective feelings about Tank Girl:

You saw the movie cold. For what it was, a schticky, silly mess of a post-apocalypse fantasy flick, it might not be too bad.

I saw the movie after having been a HUGE fan of the comic book. The original Jamie Hewlett/Alan Martin was fantastic, unlike any other comic I'd ever read. The movie was not only a crappy adaptation, but singlehandedly killed a potential franchise. I wept.

[Mousey Girl]

Minority Report is one of the many dvds that I own, but have yet to watch.

[Tref]

I love MR. Indeed, when my neighbor and I get together and play scenes from our favorite films (see recent MM thread) we always play one or two scenes from MR. I would say, from the moment the ball rolls out inscribed with John Anderton's name to the moment John drives away from the bad guys in the new car there is not a single dull moment; and some of the very best actions set pieces in any movie I have ever seen.

And I am a guy what loves action movies. My first question when recommended a new movie: does it have karate?

[mousepod]

Why I still subscribe to The New York Times:

'Minority Report,'' [is] a muscular and dense exercise of skill and verve.
... 'Minority Report'' may be the most adult film Mr. Spielberg has made in some time. It's about the bloody blurring of passion and violence: a compassionate noir.

'A.I.'' is the best fairy tale -- the most disturbing, complex and intellectually challenging boy's adventure story -- Mr. Spielberg has made.

"Tank Girl" is a comic-based movie with the flashy pop style of a real comic book, but that's a mixed blessing. It's a comic book that takes an hour and three-quarters to read, for one thing. And its storytelling isn't moved forward by anything better than an occasional need to turn the page.

[Alex]

I enjoyed Minority Report well enough until the end. When the big cover up is revealed the logic of it is so flawed that it destroyed the entire movie for me (story wise).

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, that was my first reaction, too. But in an homage to a certain genre, do you defy that genre by being smarter than it?





I decided otherwise. Dick and Spielberg apparently did, too (though, to be honest, I've never read the book).

[Boss Radio]

I enjoyed Minority Report for the pure sci fi thriller joy of it, and was able to overlook most of its flaws. Besides the enormous Tom Cruise-shaped drain in the pre-cog's bathtub, the part where the Chief got the tiny antique gun with tiny bullets that actually still worked was kind of a Scooby Doo ending.

I appreciated AI for what he tried to do, but it was kind of hard to watch.

I also liked the non-Spielberg Bicentennial Man, but thought it was about an hour too long.

They should release a cutdown called Centennial Man.

[Deebs]

I enjoyed Minority Report for the pure sci fi thriller joy of it, and was able to overlook most of its flaws.

Now that I have read this whole thread, I'm trying to decide if I even need to see Minority Report. I don't like Tom Cruise. I don't hate, but I don't-a like either.

I appreciated AI for what he tried to do, but it was kind of hard to watch.

We definitely agree about that. I wasn't expecting something so sad and uncomfortable to watch. I really kind of love Jude Law and would make excuses for him all day long, but AI was hard to watch.

Weren't we just talking about the Blue Fairy, you and me?

[Not Afraid]

Minority Report gets PK Dick points. I'm not sure if these points are then taken away by the negative points given for T. Cruise.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Now that I have read this whole thread, I'm trying to decide if I even need to see Minority Report. I don't like Tom Cruise. I don't hate, but I don't-a like either.You need to see it, so you can complain along with us. :D


I remember the acting being poor, the lines being silly. The effects were spectacular but I just didn't buy this future. When they showed the holographic computer "screens" and Cruise moving really fast using it, I couldn't help but think, um, does he have some sort of speedy implant in his brain? Just because the visuals float instead of sit on a screen, it doesn't mean we can work faster. :rolleyes: The plot holes regarding whether the machines can see your retinas or not were inexcusable...

I think it just comes down to not buying it, which is a nebulous sort of quality. After the first 15 min of a movie, you're either in or you're out. We just saw Crank and I was completely sucked in to the concept. Even when the girlfriend character wrecked the 2nd act, I still felt committed, and still felt satisfied. That movie had a pretty far-fetched concept, but it worked for me.

GD and I had a meeting of eye-rolling during the part where Cruise goes to the eyeball replacement guy. I remember feeling the whole bit was stupid. The guy's lines, his attitude, his overly-set-decorated-color-corrected room...it smacked of trying too hard and was nearly laughable. We discussed stopping the movie then, but continued. Again, it's been a while, but that's what I remember.

Regardless, I'm never seeing that again. It was one of very few movies where I wish I had those hours back and my memory erased. Indy 4 wasn't that bad...

[innerSpaceman]

Well, I hated Tom Cruise before Minority Report. Still not my favorite of actors, but I actually liked him in this, much to my astonishment.







ETA: Whether they were used consistently or not, the future hard and software depicted in Minority Report was the most realistic future imagining ever done for any motion picture in history. The research team was comprised of actual industrial futurists, and none of it was far-fetched for 20 years from now.

[Alex]

I'd say driving up the sides of buildings was pretty far fetched.

My recollection was that a lot of it seemed technically reasonable but still unlikely. Lots of things that were predicted became technically feasible but it just turned out nobody wanted them.

And I don't hate Tom Cruise. Of the big megalithic actors of the last 20 years he is hardly the most questionable of them and I like quite a few of his movies.

Collateral, Magnolia (an ensemble but I still liked his role), Born on the Fourth of July, Mission: Impossible, The Firm, Far and Away (I know, but I liked it) are all decent to good movies.

[Boss Radio]

And he was awesome in Rain Man.

[Boss Radio]

Weren't we just talking about the Blue Fairy, you and me?


Yes. And it was quite a derail from the original topic, which was about a hypothetical lesbian civil service.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, btw, he's opinion-changing FANTASTIC in Collateral.




Yes, I agree the technology in MR is more of a feasible variety than what will be accepted in the Marketplace. I'm sure corporations want to regale you with personalized advertising everywhere your retinas go ... but I don't know if the public will quite go for that. Eh, maybe most people like the recommendations of Amazon and Netflix today. I hate that kind of stuff. But it's not my preferences that usually control ... as there's less money-making in them.



Yeah, the cars up the sides of the building was pretty far-fetched from the rather mundane Smart Cars freeway premise, but I'll grant it as dramatic license for a fun action scene. But in this case, I do see it as something future people of nearly 100% high density dwellings would desire.

[Not Afraid]

I do like TC in Eyes Wide Shut.

[MouseWife]

I don't know if I've already posted to this thread.....


I love 'Far And Away' {I think I may watch it tonight, just 'cause} and I also loved 'Collateral'.

Never saw 'Eyes Wide Shut'.

And, I would vote that I like Tom Cruise. I am in a minority on that, it would seem, with a lot of folk but around this house, he is one of the top favs.

[Deebs]

You need to see it, so you can complain along with us. :D

I think you are right.


And he was awesome in Rain Man.

The wire running between our brains is freakishly long. 400 miles long? Not to agree with everything that comes out of your mouth, but... I usually do. I almost said earlier that Rain Man is the only reason I don't hate Tom Cruise. If not for that role, which I think he played perfectly, I can safely say I'd be a hater.

Yes. And it was quite a derail from the original topic, which was about a hypothetical lesbian civil service.

Lesbians, fairies. For us to implement our plan I think you'd have to have a procedure, the outcome of which I'm pretty sure your lovely wife would find highly objectionable. You might not like it either. But it was a good hypothetical plan.

I do like TC in Eyes Wide Shut.

I thought he was in way over his head there. I just did not buy him as a doctor, at all.

[€uroMeinke]

I liked Minority report - but it may be transference of my P.K.Dick love.

Never saw A.I.

And Eyes Wide Shut is a film I seem to love more and more with each viewing

[Deebs]

And Eyes Wide Shut is a film I seem to love more and more with each viewing

I watched it once and never gave it another chance. Maybe I should try it again.

[Tref]

Why so much hate against Tom Cruise? (Actually, its I hate TC, except in ____ and _____ and ____)

I happen to think Tom Cruise is a great actor, especially in the action genre, though, no matter what film, TC brings an intensity that few can match. He was great in the MI films (it wasn't his fault MI:II sucked. Blame John Woo), Collateral, Rain Man, War of the Worlds, Eyes Wide Shut, The Last Samurai, Interview with a Vampire ...
man, I could go on and on ... A Few Good Men, Born on the Fourth of July and that is still leaving off another half dozen good films.

Oh yeh, and Minority Report!

[Gemini Cricket]

I liked Minority Report.
:)

[Boss Radio]

I like Tom Cruise. I saw him jump up and down at the Chinese Theater before WOTW.

And for all you TC haters, I have two words:

Tropic Thunder.

He'll blow your mind.

[Strangler Lewis]

I think Tom Cruise is a very good actor.

What he is not is sexy. He radiates zero testosterone. (My wife agrees with me on this.) His best roles are where he plays a dweeb who thinks he's cool but is in way over his head.

[mousepod]

A few years ago, I came to the conclusion that I really enjoy Tom Cruise in the movies. His public persona creeps me out to the point that I forget how talented he is. He's the anti-Ben Affleck (his charming off-screen persona makes me think he'll be good in every movie, yet he disappoints again and again).

When Cruise finally launched his official website this month, I watched the video montage on the main page - if you doubt the man makes good movies, you really need to check out the video - you'll be surprised at how many movies you loved him in.

One caveat - for some reason, when you click the movie link on at least two of my computers, firefox crashes. Works fine on Safari, though.

[€uroMeinke]

the secret...

[mousepod]

I just finished watching Minority Report. What a great flick.

[innerSpaceman]

Hehehe, this thread inspired a screening over the weekend for me, too. It's not the perfect film. It's got a few cringe moments, a few tonal oddities. But I don't know what the naysayers are on about. Great Movie.


Stranger Lewis is right though. Tom Cruise has no sex appeal. OMG, is that ever highlighted when, as in MR, he's in a film with Colin Farrel - who oozes sex from every pore. But Cruise can be a great actor ... he's quite good in Minority Report.


Even better in the Spielberg/Cruise follow up - War of the Worlds - which I also watched over the weekend. Fantastic Movie that. Plenty of naysayers there, too. And, likewise, I just don't know what they're on about.

[Ghoulish Delight]

WotW was mediocre. Didn't hate it, but it didn't particularly wow me.

[Alex]

Just as Minority Report was ruined by the illogic of the reason for existing revealed at the end, War of the Worlds was enjoyable until it was ruined by the schmaltz of having the son alive at the end.

[Gn2Dlnd]

War of the Worlds? Oh yeah, what was it I said...(cue swirly back in time memory music)
War of the Worlds is a vomitous dog turd of a movie. I haven't been this livid about spending money on a movie since the last crazy with a religious agenda, Mel what's-his-name. Literally acres of blood and guts. Imagery that deliberately evoked 9/11. Plot holes beyond belief. WTF is wrong with Spielberg? I was really looking forward to this movie. :( I need to review H.G. Wells book to see if ANY of this crap is actually from the original. I read it years ago, and I don't think it is.

Please don't spend your money on this piece of sht.

This week, I invite you to not spend your money on "The Happening."

'Cause it ain't.

[innerSpaceman]

I don't think it's schmaltz to have a happy ending. Why have the daughter live? Was it schmaltz to not have her pulled into the liquifier and then sprayed all over the landscape? Was it only not Schmaltz because Tom Cruise saved her onscreen, but schmaltz if the son survived off?


Perhaps you're not aware how closely Spielberg's War of the Worlds echoed the George Pal version, but if both had a happy ending with all characters "miraculously" surviving, it's simply item 83 that the stories have in common. The fact that the stars of the George Pal version appear (as the grandparents) a moment before the happy ending is revealed simply serves to underscore this fact.


Of course, everyone's free to want a sad ending if they choose. It frankly would have made more sense for the Martians to have worked out some artificial immunity or defense to Earth microbes, but then the story wouldn't have been War of the Worlds either.

[mousepod]

Back to Minority Report. I'm interested to know what Alex thinks is wrong with the logic of the ending. Clearly any time-travel story (and predestination is close to time travel) is going to have weird logical twists, but I'm not convinced that something that particularly happening at the resolution of the film made it go flat. What am I missing?

[innerSpaceman]

Stop interrupting my screed on War of the Worlds in a thread about Minority Report:p .


I haven't had a chance to take on Gn2Dlnd yet. He's the second person I know (after Gemini Cricket) to have a problem with War of Worlds, a disaster film taking place across the River from Manhattan, evoking remotely connected imagery of 9/11.

First of all, I think it's all in their heads that the imagery is of 9/11. Disintegration Ray Guns were in the 1953 version of War of the Worlds and are, of course, stereotypical staples of Martian invasion movies. The fact that they were presented more realistically, with humans having "residue" instead of disappearing altogether, does not make it a 9/11 reference when Tom Cruise and other characters have human residue on them.

That was not human residue on 9/11. But ok, yeah, that's where we (Americans) became visually aware that people in a disaster zone end up with residue all over them (people in other parts of the world have known this for a much longer time).


Let's say, just for argument's sake, it was a 9/11 visual cue. What's the problem with that? Cloverfield used dozens of such visual cues, specifically because, since 9/11, they've become part of our visual dictionary for large-scale disaster.

Where is the problem?


* * * *


As for plot holes, in either of the Spielberg/Cruise match-ups, what are some? I've seen each movie a dozen times or so ... and yeah, maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't know what they are. Please fill me in, and fill in some of those gaping holes.


Oh, I'll grant there are some major implausabilities in the two SCIENCE FICTION movies, but I don't know of any plot holes, per se.

[Alex]

He went to great lengths to be able to murder someone without getting caught by the psychic things. The movie establishes that they only operate within a certain relatively small geographic range.

I would have to watch it again to state with certainty my case against the ending so there may have been more detail than this but if Max Von Sydow had simply driven the psychic's mom 50 miles out of town and then killed her it could have been done with simple old-fashioned impunity.

That may not be quite right but I remember that my complaint was that the entire movie ending up being a Rube Goldberg device when a very simple alternative was available. In certain types of movies I go along with that but this one was trying hard to be smart in so many other ways and it bothered me.




On War of the Worlds, yes, for me it crossed some line of schmaltz and, to me, betrayed the tone of what had come before. But yes, there were other big logic flaws and they will always exist in something remotely true to the book, but I'd still love to see one set in Victorian England so I could ignore them more easily.

But that was something that bothered me (and it certainly is subjective) from a story perspective. The son should have died or been left missing.

[innerSpaceman]

Where did they establish the range of the precogs in Minority Report???

They established their "jurisdiction," not their range. In fact, the system was all set to go national. Um, but there were no more precogs. Seems the 3 would have to expand their range considerably.


And, of course, I think it makes perfect sense that the precogs have such a psychic connection with their own mother that you couldn't murder her on Mars without them knowing about it.





(And of course, if something bugs you, it just does. I can certainly see how it seems off kilter in WotW for the ending to be quite so sappy, and slightly less but still off kilter in MR for things to wrap up so neatly. It's the connection to the general and specific source material that make those elements work for me in both those movies. But I'll admit, that kind of thing should not be necessary .... audiences should not have to be aware of source material or genres.)

[Alex]

They established their "jurisdiction," not their range. In fact, the system was all set to go national. Um, but there were no more precogs. Seems the 3 would have to expand their range considerably.


Like I said, I would have to rewatch the movie to rebuild my case against the ending. But it was established that somehow the crimes detected (or maybe just the crimes reported) were filtered to just the test area. So even if it technically would have been known of outside the area, if no alarm goes off, it still doesn't matter.

But, that's the best I can do at a several year remove from seeing it. All I know is that was the general of it, that I explained to quite a few people at the time, all of whom said something "yeah, that makes sense." I also recall that I generally had a lot of problems with the nature and weirdly arbitrary nature in which the crimes were detected and reported but that gets more into the "general difficulties of time travel" issues and I ignored them more easily as a movie creating its own rules. I'm fine with that, I just remember thinking that the logic of needing the complex cover-up didn't make sense even within the framework of the arbitrary rules the movie had established.

I'd consider watching it again to better hold up my end of the discussion but by the time I got my hands on it and was prepared I'm sure this thread will be well dead.

[Pirate Bill]

I liked Minority Report. I only saw it once though and don't recall catching any plot holes. I enjoyed the action, the acting, the plot, the scifi-ness. Now you've all got me wanting to watch it again, but my Netflix queue is so full of things I haven't watched yet... ah, I'll add it anyway but not at the top.

I'm not a big fan of Tom Cruise, the man. But Tom Cruise the actor is awesome. No man crush (I'm saving that for Nathan Fillion). I like every movie I've seen him in, and in a large part because of him.

I loved AI, but probably because I was so hooked on the internet game that preceded the movie. That game had a great story that really sucked me in. So when the movie came out I was already engrossed in the AI universe. I just watched it again a few weeks ago and still really like the movie.

[Alex]

Where the hell did that cake come from?

[innerSpaceman]

I'll really have to give AI another shot. But I cringe even just thinking of watching it.

Perhaps I should have a weekend of the films I've supposed to give another shot to.



If I hadn't done that for Minority Report, I would still not like it. And truly I can see the logic in Alex's dislike for the ending. Logically, it seems that it would be easier to hide the murder from the precogs. But I think the key here is that it's the murder of a precog's mom ... and that's just going to be real difficult to hide. That's why I give it a pass, but individual mileage may always vary.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

When the son showed up at the end of WotW I actually uttered an "oof" as if someone had punched me in the stomach. Even though it was totally expected, I was hoping against hope that the kid would die. I mean, come on, he ran into a hoary battlefield unarmed "to help out", right? :rolleyes: Ridiculous. Even if you want to root for him, his actions were retarded, so I was rooting for his death.

The rest of that film was rather good, I thought. I know I'll get riddled for this but I LOVED the 9/11 imagery. I fully believe that scary movies should reflect the fears of society. What's more scary these days (and especially back then) than a crashed plane, ashy remains, etc? Part of the point of the movie is to scare you, and it did it's job.

[Alex]

Did it win any sound related Oscars? Several years on the noise the aliens made still rings in my mind, even as many of the details have faded from memory.

[mousepod]

I didn't have any problem with the way the murder was committed in Minority Report. Had he taken the woman out of the precogs jurisdiction, he would have had to deal with a potential murder investigation. By doing it the way he did, there's no trial, therefore no investigation. Plus, his hubris would have led him to believe that he could easily fake a system that he basically controlled and created.

The only thing that troubled me plot-wise about the flick was the way Anderton's character gets into the "Temple" again and again. Initially, he makes a point of telling Witwer that no officer ever goes into the Temple because "We keep a strict separation so that no one can accuse us of tampering." Moments later, Anderton's iris scan gets him right in.
Then later in the movie, once Anderton being pursued as a pre-murderer, his irises still work to open the door. In such a high-tech world, you'd think they'd do a better job of protecting their only pre-cogs.

[mousepod]

I also wondered how they were planning on creating more pre-cogs once these three became ineffective (i.e. died).

[Gn2Dlnd]

I should probably watch Minority Report. It seems to me that I did, but remember nothing of it except a really cool magnetic "highway in the sky," or I'm confusing it with something else, or I saw an extended trailer. Oh and Tom Cruise manipulating an holographic computer screen. Maybe I did see it.

[mousepod]

Anyone up for an evening screening of A.I. sometime in the next few days? Tuesday-Thursday this week all look good...

[innerSpaceman]

I had the same major big bug with MR ... the zero security of The Temple. I'm ok with Anderton being allowed access during his tenure (even if it was his practice not to use it), but how could they have not changed the access requirements once he went on the lam ... with a kidnapped precog no less?!

That was a groaner for me. And I almost couldn't get over it. But it was just the silliest of a few silly things, and I eventually decided to forgive it ... but never forget its stupidness.