I'm not sure this is legal.....what do you think?

[wolfy999]

Wolfette goes to a Private School here in Orange County, CA. This is a non-profit organization. We have already paid registration ($150.00 non-refundable) for 2008/2009 school year and also started the tuition payments (still refundable at this point).

I received this letter today in the mail and just don't feel right about it....it's even a possibility that it's not even legal.

Want to see what all of the you swank experts think about this.

Here is the main portion of the letter that just really irks me....

"The Parent Involvement Program (PIP) was recently approved by the Internal School Board to help promote parent involvement at the school. To encourage and promote involvement the PIP program has been designed and will be implemented in the 2008-2009 school year.

The PIP program requires that each family donate twenty (20) hours of involvement time through out the school year. Your family can be involved in a variety of ways, as outlines on the enclosed opportunity list. The PIP Opportunity Binder with all involvement opportunities available will be kept in the school office. Sign up quickly, and check the book often, because some opportunities have limited availability and new opportunities are always arising. We encourage you to be involved not only in your student's classroom, but in all areas of the school.

Each time you are involved in authorized PIP activity, you will be given a PIP Chip. This is a receipt of your involvement hours, what you were doing, and by whom it was authorized. Parents, you must hold on to your PIP chips. A charge of $200 will appear on your bill. If for some reason you are unable to be involved and complete your PIP involvement hours, the charge will remain on your bill and be due and payable. When all 20 involvement hours have been completed turn your PIP Chips into student accounts, to have the $200 charge credited to your account."

We have about 350 students total in the school, but with the math I've done, that works out to be 7000 hours in free labor for the school, if all parents get involved.....if not, $70,000 in additional funds.

What do you think about this?

[~MS~]

Private schools, their house their rules. I think it stinks that it wasn't in place before you made the decision to send her to that particular school but I'd say that while highly unethical (at least to sneak it in after the fact) it's legal.

[sleepyjeff]

My son's elemantary school ~a public school~ did something similar. Every parent is asked to donate 25 hours to the school or sponser a classroom(for $300). It's all voluntary but they do lean on you pretty heavily at the beginning of the school year. Most parents of kindergarten and 1st graders donate the time or money...but by the time their kids get into the 3rd or 4th grade they get tired of the heavy handedness of it all and elect not to volunteer either money or time(which is probably why the middle school in the same district doesn't even bother to ask).

Couldn't tell you if it's legal or not but I bet if it really came down to it you could get your deposit back if you threatened legal action.

[wolfy999]

She's been going to that school since she was two and a half (pre-school), so it wasn't a recent decision.

I also work there part-time (and of course get paid), am hoping there might be an exception for an employee...but I highly doubt it.

[lashbear]

I would refuse to pay the charge and refer it through to legal if they get heavy.

I would also ask to see the contract with your signature on it agreeing to this.


...having said that, law in USA my be different to that over here.

[LashStoat]

Dear Wolfy999,

I can see why this would make you feel uncomfortable. I can’t judge it from a legal viewpoint, but here are my thoughts (mostly to do with ethics and security) in no particular order:


The school should have made you aware of any “hidden” or “additional” costs at the time you signed up, so that you could make an informed decision. Whilst all organizations can introduce new costs, it is ethical to do it at the time of contract, not after signup.

I imagine that the PIP will occur during school hours, meaning working parents would have to take time off, annual leave or whatever to “do their duty”. That sucks.

How can they direct debit your account without your authorization? That’s got to be illegal. If they take it off a credit card, you could ring the Card issuer and reverse the debit.

Also does this mean that “unknown” adults are going to be wandering around the school, with no background screening, and engaging with your child – when they aren’t qualified teachers, and for all you know they could be pedophiles? To me, this is the most serious issue, and I think you could use it to scare the school on legal grounds – it would be a breech of school security. I’m thinking Columbine and Jonbenet.
…I’m thinking if points 1 to 3 doesn’t stop them, point 4 should make ‘em sit up. If they still push the point, insist on background screening for each and every participant. That would mean every participant would have to sign a consent form to be screened (ie: Police Check).

The strategy is to shift heavy legal responsibility onto the Principal (which I’m betting they won’t want to do). I’m also betting parents won’t want to consent (for civil/privacy reasons).

Hugs, and good luck,

The Stoat.

[wendybeth]

I think you could challenge it, for reasons Lash points out. If it's not in the contract you have with the school, then it's basically sort of extortion. It's also bull****- you already pay to have her in school, so why do you get charged again? If they want parental involvement, this is most decidedly not the way to go about it. (I'm pissed just looking at what they wrote- it's ridiculous.)

[wendybeth]

Great points by Stoat as well- I'm really interested in how this plays out. Keep us apprised, alright?

[LashStoat]

Dear Wolfy999,

Just another thought:

Does the register that folks are signing disclose details like phone numbers and/or other contact details that can be seen by other folks? If so, this is also a clear breech of privacy/security.

...and here's another biggy: What if one of the parents has an accident like falling down steps etc? Would they be legally covered? And in the same vein, what if a parent accidentally causes harm to a kid? What happens then...as they are a volunteer...who's liable?

...and what if a kid says "Mr Smith touched me on the weeny"? Even if he didn't, Mr. Smith's a gonner.

Cast that out to other parents - I'll bet a fear-storm ensues, and they'll march to City Hall.


Hugs,

The Stoat.

[wolfy999]

Good thoughts Stoat....I had to have a background check done, TB testing, certification in First Aid/CPR. None of these volunteer parents have gone through any of this, the school is just assuming they are OK, since their kids go there, but this is a poor assumption. Will be calling the school on Monday, to voice some of the opinions made here and see what they have to say.

I may be an employee, but I'm also a parent of a child that goes there!

[LashStoat]

Dear Wolfy999,

Since you work there, it may be wise to discuss the points I raised (please also read my post concerning personal liability) with other parents and get them to create the $hit fight, as I'd hate you to lose your job over $200.

Are there some other folks that could take up the cause?

Hugs,

The Stoat.

[wolfy999]

We also got a list of possible volunteer jobs....

Driving to sporting events with mutiple students (liability issue, if you ask me).

Running the elementary library (unassisted), with no training involved.

Pizza lunches (food safety issues).

Set up of theater for drama productions (heavy lifting involved).

I got 3 pages of suggestions....these are just a few of them.

[BarTopDancer]

Sounds like they are trying to cut the budget and have volunteers replace paid employees.

[LashStoat]

Dear Wolfy999,

Now I know your gender, I can say "Go Girlfriend".

See...you don't have to fight about the money - just use liability as a fvcking big stick.

"Hey kids, this is Mr. Ted Bundy...he's going to take you to netball practice. For those of you going bowling, you'll be riding with Ms. Borden. Those going to the Science Museum can join Mr Lector in his R.V."

Unbelieveable that they didn't think it through !!!

Please keep us posted...

Love and hugs,

The Stoat XXX.

[katiesue]

Lots of private schools and pre-schools have these sort of parental "committment" programs. Maddy's elementry school did almost all school field trips with parent drivers. But you had to carry certain insurance limits and give the office proof before you could drive.

[tracilicious]

From my understanding, this is quite common. It's usually set up as, "we'll give you this much of a discount if you do this much volunteer work," instead of how your school set it up.

[wendybeth]

Oh, lots of our area's private schools offer work/tuition reduction programs, but this is just outright extortion of time/money. They're requiring full tuition and time volunteerism, with an economic penalty if it isn't completed. Total merde, and the idiots who first proposed this scheme should go back to school themselves. I volunteered a lot when Tori was in public school, but I damn sure wouldn't have if they had pulled this crap on me. It isn't volunteering if it's forced.

[lashbear]

It isn't volunteering if it's forced.
No, that's Drafting.

[Strangler Lewis]

If it wasn't, it should have been stated up front. But other than that, it doesn't sound much different than being asked to make a contribution over and above the price of a decent theatre ticket.

Other than making sure they do background checks--which are quick and fairly cheap, if not free (Megan's law)--it's probably not worth the time involved to try to right this wrong.

[RStar]

Here is my take:

1) I loved doing what I could to be involved with my kids in school. It showed them how much I care. My wife was very active in the PTA and also was a Girl Scout leader. I know with working parents this can be hard.

2) I think it is very wrong to have something like this forced on people. What happend to our rights??!!

3) Check that list quick, and sign up for the thing you can do the easiest or the thing you would like to do. And complain later.

4) Where's Pru when you need her?

5) Good luck!

[wolfy999]

Where is Pru....???

[Not Afraid]

Psst, SL is also an attorney.

[BDBopper]

The private school my mom is the secretary for and that I volunteer with, The Special Needs Schools of Gwinnett has a very similar policy. Except that the fee for not doing your allotted time results in a lower fee (like 50 bucks). I will go ahead and say that parents who work at the school are covered because they are already doing their hours working for the school. If the Woflette's School is like ours (yes I am possesive of these wonderful kids I help out) than you should be fine.

While it seems that the school in question wants to cut costs and replace paid workers with volunteers the reasoning for doing the same at th Special Needs School is different. the aim of our game is to increase the bonds we have tiogether as a group. We really are a family of kindred spirits and go through the same things. It increases the sense of community. There really wasn't too much of a problem until tyhe school started getting a lot of new students because of the new vouchers for special needs children in the state of Georgia (a mell of a hess if you want my opinion on the matter...but that is another rant for another day)

[Chernabog]

If this were a public school, then I'd say, yeah there would be some serious legal issues.

But it isn't. Yeah it's crappy, but I'd bet that in the contract that is signed between you and the school, there is some sort of provision that you either have to abide by the policies of the Internal Board, or whatever. Or if it's a new contract signed every year, then they're basically saying "here are the terms, either you're agreeing to this by sending your kid here/signing the 2008-2009 contract, or you can find a different school." There may be an ethical issue here but I don't think there's a legal one.

Yeah, the school might be leaving itself open to liability issues by implementing this policy w/o doing background checks of the parents but again, you kid isn't being forced to go to the school either if you feel that uncomfortable with it.

[wolfy999]

Thanks everyone....I guess if we want to keep Wolfette at the school we just have to volunteer our hours. If not, we lose the $150.00 deposit and put her into Public School.

OK, they win!

[Alex]

I have no direct experience but stuff like this seems to be pretty common among friends with kids in private schools.

The only part that seems questionable is requiring volunteer work from a paid employee.

[wolfy999]

It does state in the letter "a family member", which would end up being my hubby if I'm not allowed to volunteer. He just doesn't have time, so another problem arises....!!

[Chernabog]

It does state in the letter "a family member", which would end up being my hubby if I'm not allowed to volunteer. He just doesn't have time, so another problem arises....!!

I came across as a bit harsh in my above post without intending to :)

However, I think that if the issue is "parent involvement" you can probably talk to them about your specific situation since you work at the school already. You're already involved, above and beyond the intent of the reason for having this PIP. However, if it's a situation where your regular paid work is forcing you to do volunteer work or risk getting ejected from your job (as opposed to, say just the $200), then that isn't kosher.

[cirquelover]

The school we were going to put Z in was the same way. They also had many other requirements that we decided it wasn't worth jumping through all their hoops after all.

Hopefully they will be willing to work with you, since you already work for them!