Michael Vicks Dogs - One Year Later

[Not Afraid]

Really great follow up article on the Pit Bulls rescued from Michael Vick's fighting operation. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/06/AR2008070602351.html?hpid=artslot)

[Snowflake]

That's a great story! Some good came out of the horrible tragedy.

That give me some warm fuzzies and hooray to all the rescue people who fostered and worked with these abused dogs.

I'd forgotten that Pete the Pup was a pitbull.

[JWBear]

Puppies! :)

[BDBopper]

How wonderful! :)

[wendybeth]

How cool. It sounds like these people know what they're doing- it's true that pits need a bit more supervision than most other dogs, but if you're aware and responsible they can be a great family dog. People ask me if our dogs bite, and I tell them they never have- but that doesn't mean they never will. I'm not a pit bull fan, but I don't like to see them destroyed because of human stupidity either. I love the fact that Vick has to pay for their maintenance- may they live very, very long lives!

[Alex]

Best Friends in Kanab is a cool shelter. If you're ever in the area it is worth a tour.

[Not Afraid]

Pit Bulls don't bit any more often than many other dogs. It's just when they do, it is more dangerous because of the strong jaws.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Rehabbing a dog is a big job, but I'm glad somebody is doing it for these guys. Dogs don't ask to be turned aggressive; they just want to be part of their pack and have some food and lovings now and then.

I love pits, but I don't want to deal with the liability that can come with owning one. Probably what, 99 of 100 dogs, will be perfectly fine, but it only takes that one to really mess up somebody's life. I'm glad to see some rational discussion about the breed, and people realizing that most of them are just like other dogs. Some dogs are gentle and good, others are aggressive, and others have certain circumstances that can set them off. My hubby had a terrier as a child that would go off on anyone wearing cowboy boots or leather gloves. The difference is that pit bull terriers are capable of doing a lot of damage. Then again, German Shepherds (I'm told) cause a lot of damage, bite a lot of people. So I'd say pit bulls deserve their chance at being adored pets.

[BarTopDancer]

That's a great story. Thank you.

[Disneyphile]

Love the outcome! Thank goodness they've been given a chance to live after spending so long imprisoned in hell. :)

Now, if only the prison would make Vick fight his fellow inmates and then electrocute him if he "doesn't win". ;)

[wendybeth]

Pit Bulls don't bit any more often than many other dogs. It's just when they do, it is more dangerous because of the strong jaws.

My MIL's ex used to raise pits- she remembers they always had sticks especially made to pry the dog's jaws open should they lock up when they bit. They can be more dangerous than other breeds because of the damage they do, but if one knows what they're doing and raises them in a calm, loving environment they can be pretty cool little guys. I've known more than a few people who had pitbulls and never had a problem with them, ever.

[Kevy Baby]

Pit Bulls don't bit any more often than many other dogs. It's just when they do, it is more dangerous because of the strong jaws.Same story with Rottweilers. We would love to get one (when we have space for it), but probably won't for liability reasons.

So I guess I will just have to get a Pug :)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I didn't read the story earlier but got to it later, and I'm glad I did. It's incredible that they were able to save nearly all of them. Hell of a story. I hope it goes a long way towards a reformation of the pit bull reputation.

[Gemini Cricket]

Whatever became of that f*ckstick Vick?
Did he go to jail?

[Kevy Baby]

Whatever became of that f*ckstick Vick?
Did he go to jail?From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick)
In 2007, a U.S. federal district court convicted him and several co-defendants of criminal conspiracy resulting from felonious dog fighting and sentenced him to serve a 23 month prison sentence. He is being held in the United States Penitentiary at Leavenworth, Kansas. Vick is also under indictment for two related Virginia state felony charges for his role in the dogfighting ring and related gambling activity. His state trial has now been delayed until he is released from federal prison, and he faces a maximum 10 year state prison term if convicted on both counts.

[Kevy Baby]

And he has announced that he is filing for bankruptcy (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDsEKkbHNcP7laksDZz0oHhhHOwAD91PNAH80):
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Imprisoned quarterback Michael Vick filed for bankruptcy protection while serving time for federal dogfighting charges, saying he owes between $10 million and $50 million to creditors.

Vick filed Chapter 11 papers in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Newport News on Monday. The seven largest creditors listed in the court papers are owed a total of about $12.8 million.

[Kels]

Great article! I'm very happy to see that so many of these four-legged friends were able to find happier lives.

Our Humane Society rehomes a lot of pit-bull's. I would venture to say that about 60-70 of all dogs in the adoption center are pit-bull's most of the time.

Some of the sweetest pups I've had the priveldge of knowing at the HS have been "bullies".

kels.

[scaeagles]

I realize many here will say "who the hell cares??? He deserves it!", but this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=3537577&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1) is sad. So many people took advantage of him when they saw his financial potential that he will have literally nothing when he gets out. Granted, he does deserves the fines he received, but these people who took advantage of his youth and lack of knowledge are reprehensible.

[Strangler Lewis]

Pit Bulls don't bit any more often than many other dogs. It's just when they do, it is more dangerous because of the strong jaws.

That's a big "just." Plus, I don't buy it. How many dogs do you have to worry about murdering you when they're in heat and around a mate? As with that poor kid who was killed in San Francisco.

I view pit bulls the same way I view certain types of firearms. You can talk all you want about training and responsibility, but the fact remains that these things exist because of their appeal to a certain type of irresponsible, violence loving person. The stupidest things I've ever heard human beings utter have been uttered by pit bull owners after their dog had mauled somebody. If all the pit bulls in the world were neutered and spayed, I would view it as no great loss.

[lashbear]

People ask me if our dogs bite, and I tell them they never have- but that doesn't mean they never will.
Ummm.... Do your dogs like Aussies ???? *gulp*

[wendybeth]

Our dogs love everyone, Lash- especially Bears.:)


As a matter of fact, Mellie is part Aussie Shep, part Akita, all lovebug. Give her a Scooby snack and she's your bestest buddy.

[Morrigoon]

Great article! I'm very happy to see that so many of these four-legged friends were able to find happier lives.

Our Humane Society rehomes a lot of pit-bull's. I would venture to say that about 60-70 of all dogs in the adoption center are pit-bull's most of the time.

Some of the sweetest pups I've had the priveldge of knowing at the HS have been "bullies".

kels.
My mom fostered a pit bull pup that her group had pretty much scraped up off the road. Somehow, he survived, she nursed him back to health. He was a super sweet dog, she had him for nearly a year... right up until he killed a puppy she was also fostering.

I feel for pit bulls, it's not their fault they are how they are. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and adopt one. They're sweet but they can turn literally on a dime. Even when you raise them right.

[lashbear]

Give her a Scooby snack and she's your bestest buddy.
Wow.. me too ! :D

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I realize many here will say "who the hell cares??? He deserves it!", but this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=3537577&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1) is sad. So many people took advantage of him when they saw his financial potential that he will have literally nothing when he gets out. Granted, he does deserves the fines he received, but these people who took advantage of his youth and lack of knowledge are reprehensible.Yes, people who take advantage of the stupidly wealthy are jerks, but he still deserves it.

[Not Afraid]

All dogs have the ability to bite and maim. Although i have a hard time picturing it, I'm sure even Thurston could cause some damage (I don't let him around the kittens unsupervised because I fear he would kill them). Most dogs are bred for a purpose and much of the time, that purpose is hunting. As a result, all dog bites can be nasty.

[Stan4dSteph]

There's going to be a special on the National Geographic Channel tonight on the dogs. I saw some clips on ABC News. Looks interesting and I wish I got that channel.

[Not Afraid]

LOL! A pug boutique has a new touy available. It's a Michael Vick Chew Toy.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-83625184470733_2028_99610326

[JWBear]

OMG! That's perfect!


(Let me guess what Thurston is getting for Christmas...)

[Disneyphile]

They should also sell Michael Vick puppy training pads. :evil:

[Ghoulish Delight]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Porter-on-Vick-All-it-was-was-dogs-?urn=nfl,123957

Joey Porter's a real winner.


"All it was was dogs. They act like they don't even like pit bulls anyway. That's the funny thing about it if you want to get back on that topic. I got pit bulls, I got to put them under a different breed just to travel. So you can't even fly pit bulls nowhere.

"It's a breed they don't care about. It's not like he was fighting cocker spaniels or something that they like. They don't really care too much about pit bulls."

Profootballtalk.com reported that Porter let his pitbull loose and it killed a miniature horse.

[Not Afraid]

Ummmm, I think he missed a point or two along the way.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Who cares, it's just Pit Bulls, right (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3718304)? (warning, semi-graphic descriptions ahead)

[Not Afraid]

Another really good, more recent follow up article about the dogs. (http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1150095/index.htm)

[bewitched]

Great Article, NA!

but the fact remains that these things exist because of their appeal to a certain type of irresponsible, violence loving person.

I agree with you 100%. However...that is hardly the breed's fault. Pitbulls have been around since the 19th century and usually refer to either purebred Staffordshire Bull Terriers/American Staffordshire Terriers or a dog that is mixed with one of these breeds. From early on, the breeds were well known to be very people friendly:

Dog fighting, which could be carried out under clandestine measures, blossomed. Since Bulldogs proved too ponderous and uninterested in dog fighting, the Bulldogs were crossed with English White and Black and Tan Terriers. They were also bred to be intelligent and level-headed during fights and remain non-aggressive toward their handlers. Part of the standard for organized dog-fighting required that the match referee who is unacquainted with the dog be able to enter the ring, pick up a dog while it was engaged in a fight, and get the respective owner to carry it out of the ring without being bitten. Dogs that bit the referee were culled.

As a result, Victorian fighting dogs (Staffordshire Bull Terriers and, though less commonly used as fighters, English Bull Terriers) generally had stable temperaments and were commonly kept in the home by the gambling men who owned them.

What I agree with is it is many of the people own these dogs and breed them with no regard to temperament (they just want a "cool" or "badass" dog) are irresponsible and often drawn to violence. They revel in their dog's ability to be vicious and often foster that ability.

I would (even with an 8yo child) own a "pitbull" that I knew to be well bred, by people who care about the breeds and know what they are doing with not an ounce of trepidation. On the other hand, Staffies are "advanced" dogs and I am what I would call a very experienced dog person...there are many breeds, no matter how well bred that someone who is inexperienced with dogs and/or has a submissive personality has no business owning. It is not the pitbull as a breed that concerns me, it is the individual pitbulls that come (at some point in their lives) from irresponsible fvcktards who have no business being near these animals.

In short, there are, unfortunately, some "bad" dogs (of all breeds) out there, but generally it's what dog people say all of the time about all "bad" dogs (because it's true), it is rarely the dog that is the problem (although that is the unfortunate, and eventual, outcome), it's the owners who are the problem.

[Strangler Lewis]

I'm not sure that not biting the dominant owner or the similarly dominant grown-up male referee qualifies as being people friendly.

Bewitched, your post surprises me because it sounds perilously close to a lot of the junk one hears from pit bull owners whose dogs have just attacked someone: "I can kick my dog's ass, so I'm shocked that it attacked a small child in the neighborhood."

[Morrigoon]

Bewitched:

I would have believed that too, but for the Pit mix my mom fostered with her rescue group. The dog was still a puppy when rescued. She had "Lucky" for several months, so basically "raised" him. Very sweet temperament.

... Until he killed a puppy she was also fostering.

Actually, there were signs of his aggression problem earlier, as he got into a couple fights with her beagle that resulted in a trip to the vet and stitches. But because of Daisy's personality, we assumed she'd picked the fight.

My point is, the pitbull danger is nature, NOT nurture. Even if it can be aggravated by nurture, they have innate aggression issues which you might not even be aware of most of the time because they're usually super sweet. But pits can turn ON A DIME.

[bewitched]

Bewitched, your post surprises me because it sounds perilously close to a lot of the junk one hears from pit bull owners whose dogs have just attacked someone: "I can kick my dog's ass, so I'm shocked that it attacked a small child in the neighborhood."

I in no way would claim that I can kick a pitbull's ass. That is not at all what I mean. Dogs are pack animals. The leaders of the pack don't lead by violence. They lead with calmness, assertiveness and simple discipline when needed. There are many people who love and own dogs who are not calm and assertive or "dominant" personalities. And there are some dogs who "need" a leader and will fill that role if need be. These type of people have no business owning these types of "advanced" dogs. Kicking a dog's ass does NOT make someone a leader-- it makes them an asshole who has no business owning a dog. When a dog bites, there can be many reasons behind it. When a dog "attacks" it is almost always due to the owners inability to control the dog.

Like you, I don't buy that it was a wonderful dog who did nothing wrong...ever. There were signs, maybe subtle...but there were signs. Maybe a slight growl when the dog was petted while eating. Maybe a rumbling in its throat when a child went past on a skateboard...to an inexperienced person with an advanced dog, this is grumpy day or such. Dogs escalate their behavior. They growl at another dog to see if you will do anything, they snap at another dog...whatever. The poblem with pits and Rotties and Dobermans (and other like dogs) is they poke a little and then they explode. This is the reason that many rescue groups won't take pits in particular and will refer to a pit specific rescue; these dogs need to be handled by someone experienced with the breed.

So don't misunderstand me. I would never excuse the owner of a dog that mauled anyone; the dog has only become what the owner has made (or allowed) him to be. And as heartbreaking as I find it to be, the only acceptable solution is to put a dog like that down. Again, for this I blame the owner.

Bewitched:

I would have believed that too, but for the Pit mix my mom fostered with her rescue group. The dog was still a puppy when rescued. She had "Lucky" for several months, so basically "raised" him. Very sweet temperament.

... Until he killed a puppy she was also fostering.

Actually, there were signs of his aggression problem earlier, as he got into a couple fights with her beagle that resulted in a trip to the vet and stitches. But because of Daisy's personality, we assumed she'd picked the fight.

My point is, the pitbull danger is nature, NOT nurture. Even if it can be aggravated by nurture, they have innate aggression issues which you might not even be aware of most of the time because they're usually super sweet. But pits can turn ON A DIME.

An excellent example of an "advanced" dog "escalating" behavior to see if (and when) the pack leader will reassert control (and who knows how many growls and snaps went on before that went unnoticed or were explained away). The pitbull problem is NOT nature except insofar as people have totally lost perspective and left out the "temperament" part of the equation in breeding (kind of like 2 people with a genetic disease having a child and then being surprised that the child has the same genetic disease*). Instead of breeding for calmness of temperament, people are breeding the "badass" factor. That is why, as I stated, I would never own a pit of unknown lineage with my 8 yo child around. I would however, not hesitate to have a well bred Staffordshire Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier (which is what pits generally are-- that or a mix with one of the 2) in my home.

And any dog can turn, "on a DIME". You just don't hear on CNN about the miniature poodle who bit its owner several times after being such a "sweet" dog for so many years.




*I am only stating this as an example, not as an opening for a eugenics argument and/or a commentary on my feelings, or lack thereof, regarding this statement.

[Morrigoon]

Okay, I see your argument there. I still won't ever have a Staffordshire in my family, but I can see why you feel comfortable doing so.

[bewitched]

Okay, I see your argument there. I still won't ever have a Staffordshire in my family, but I can see why you feel comfortable doing so.

And I totally respect and appreciate anyone who takes the time to know what kind of dog fits with their lifestyle and personality. :snap: , in my dog loving book for being responsible. Most dogs (pits in particular) end up in shelters/rescues because people don't take the time to see what kind of dog fits them (as opposed to the drug dealer wannabe down the street :rolleyes: ).

In any case, I don't see myself actually owning a Staffie anytime soon. We are at 4 dogs (including our Rat Terrier foster* who is driving me insane with his terrier personality :deep calming breaths: ) which is 2 past my personal limit. (We also have a Doberman/Lab mix, a Standard Poodle and a Setter/Lab mix). And frankly, even though I wouldn't refuse a Staffie a home (okay, right now I would ;) ), it is not a breed I would actively seek out as they don't rank very highly for me personally (not for temperament issues, mind you). (I adore Standard Poodles (great with kids!) and would love someday to have a Borzoi.)



*If anyone wants a poorly dog and people socialized (we're working on that!), fearful (that too), fear peeing :sigh:, likely former puppy mill resident, yet very sweet (in spite of everything) and cute Rat Terrier; please let me know. I might have the perfect dog for you! :D

[Strangler Lewis]

Okay, I see your argument there. I still won't ever have a Staffordshire in my family, but I can see why you feel comfortable doing so.

Even if one would feel comfortable having, say, a non-neutered male in heat in your own home while a female in heat was over the back fence, the other relevant question is whether it's appropriate to make your neighbors nervous by owning such an animal.

If my neighbor told me that his hobby was making bombs in the basement, I would not be comforted by his professions of mature expertise in the matter. I note that in recent attacks, the idiotic statements by the owners reflect the belief that the victims and/or those horrified by the attacks were insufficiently aficion on the subject of dangerous dogs. E.g., "What is she complaining about? She knew his triggers." and "What's the fuss? It's not as if he locked his jaws."

[alphabassettgrrl]

I'd love to have one of the big breeds- Rottweiler, bull mastiff, or a Staffordshire, I know I don't have the energy to give them the exercise they need. They're gorgeous, but I know I won't be fair to the dog if I have one. I'll stick to the basset hounds- they're more my speed. :)

I think it's horrible to "blame the victim" of a dog attack. The only time I would concede that is if someone is actively taunting a dog. Then you spank the human and work with the dog. But most of the time, when you hear about a dog attack, the humans have not been out of line. The owners of the dogs have been, but the victims have been minding their own business. If you own a dog that is likely to bite, whether that's a Chihuahua or a German Shepherd, you'd better make sure you have that dog under control every second.

That doesn't mean it has to be on a leash at your feet, just that you know where it is and what it's doing. Train the dog, socialize the dog, and be its pack leader so it knows it has to behave. Won't solve all problems, and this doesn't address the problem owners who *like* having a killer dog, but it will go a long way towards responsible dog ownership.

[bewitched]

Even if one would feel comfortable having, say, a non-neutered male in heat in your own home while a female in heat was over the back fence, the other relevant question is whether it's appropriate to make your neighbors nervous by owning such an animal.

First off, anyone who has a dog and is not breeding for show purposes or to further the breed standard has a moral obligation to have their dog spayed or neutered. It makes dogs better pets and stops totally preventable health problems from arising. Further, with the number of dogs this country puts to death every year, it is the height of irresponsibility, IMO to add to the pet population.

Having said that, there are lots of things that make neighbors nervous that are totally legal that are also outside their control. My neighbor's kids were afraid of any dog when they were younger. We had 4 dogs (a Lab, a Keeshond, 2 mutts), licensed and approved by the city. They were on my property, well behaved and frankly it was their problem, not mine. On the other hand, O's father lives in an apartment building where the guy above him smokes. If I think about it, it makes me nervous to think this guy could fall asleep smoking and start a fire which could injure my child, I deal with it.

As to the bomb making scenario, society as a whole has decided that bomb making in one's home is so unsafe as to be illegal. If I knew someone was making bombs, I'd call the cops. Further, if one of my neighbors had a known vicious dogs, I'd call animal control. And frankly, a lot of times people don't even know what they're looking at.

At one of our HOA meetings a few years ago, someone wanted to "warn" people that there was a pit in our neighborhood. The man who owned said "pit" was at the meeting. The dog was actually a Boxer/Lab mix and completely harmless. People get all in a tizzy over things they aren't really knowledgeable about, and for that matter aren't really the threat they perceive; your chances of getting struck by lightening are 5 times greater than being mauled by ANY dog. Unfortunately, the maulings make for much "jazzier" news stories.

I note that in recent attacks, the idiotic statements by the owners reflect the belief that the victims and/or those horrified by the attacks were insufficiently aficion on the subject of dangerous dogs. E.g., "What is she complaining about? She knew his triggers." and "What's the fuss? It's not as if he locked his jaws."

One unfortunately cannot control the rash of stupid people that populate our planet. Nonetheless, I think it is unfair and unjust to condemn a whole breed and/or any single dog because there are stupid people in the world.