SHUT UP and enjoy the Park

[innerSpaceman]

According to the lastest Al's Update (sorry no link, miceage not working right now - maybe overwhelmed with outrage) ...

Disneyland City Hall will no longer be accepting written complaints, comments or cast member compliments of any kind. Verbal complaints and compliments only from now on.

Supposedly, your comment will be relayed by telephone to the appropriate personnel ... but under no circumstances will any written record of a guest comment be allowed.


If you make a stink, you will be given the snail mail address of Disney corporate headquarters ... where an even more insideous and certainly draconian process will make sure your written comment goes nowhere.

Human drones will be opening all the mail and eyeball-scanning it for any mention of a visit to a Disney theme park or resort. Upon finding the first such mention, the letter will be closed and then returned to sender.


Whoa.


The twisted reasoning behind this is to keep down legal costs in connection with people who've been suing for compensation when their written suggetions have been adopted by Disney (e.g., someone writes it would be a good idea to bring Soarin' Over California to Epcot, and then sues for consultancy fees when that happens - using his comment card as evidence.)



I can barely contain my outrage at this absurd and gofucyourself policy.



Am I making mountain of molehill? Verbal comments are still allowed, but I never trusted them and would always -- the few times I have felt the need to comment -- insist on putting it in writing. And if you'd like to compliment a certain CM ... just fergetabout it.




Sad, sad and sad. :(

[Isaac]

Maybe it's their way of going green.
Less paper= more trees :)

[scaeagles]

But somewhat understandable. I read it. Even legal nuisances still cost money. It is outrageous, but I blame the legitious society we live in rather than anything else.

But is does seem like a simple disclaimer on any form filled out would be adequate - like "Disney is under no circumstances financially obligated should any of these suggestion become reality whether as a result of comments written and submitted to us or otherwise.".

[Alex]

I've actually mentioned in the past being surprised that Disney was willing to in any way accept ideas for park improvements from guests. It's the same reason your unsolicited ideas for an Alias reunion movie will get returned unread.

Though if Al's description of the process is accurate I can certainly think of better customer facing ways to handle the issue.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I'll write my complaint on the end of a baseball bat. Weeeeeee

[Not Afraid]

Good for Disney. I think this is a stellar practice that they're implemented. I'm sure they get lots of complaints from people who think they are entitled to something or other. While a good 5% of the complaints might be worth something, the other 95% are a waste of time.

[CoasterMatt]

I wonder if they're doing this in advance of eliminating free FastPass for something more akin to Front of the Line passes at USH?

[BDBopper]

I can definitely understand why they are doing this for complaints and that it is probably the right thing to do. However what about for compliments? At least if they write those down and make a note of them I guess this is okay.

[Isaac]

Me being serious for a moment:

There are TONS of ridiculous 'concerns' from park guests every day. I've heard people complain about everything from "I didn't know the park was closing @ 6pm today and I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow", "All the rides look awful, especially Splash Mountain; it was gloomy", to "The Haunted Mansion & Pirates Of The Caribbean are both way too long. You need to make them shorter." So to some degree I can understand why written complaints are no longer accepted.

I feel bad for the CMs in City Hall cause now those park guests who would rather just write on paper what's bothering them will now be yelling @ the CMs and demanding that THEY do something about those guests concerns.

Esh!

[innerSpaceman]

The thing is ... the reasoning behind this is not to be rid of the admittedly absurd ton of STUPID complaints ... but to avoid trouble with lawsuits from suggestions that were so in synch with Disney's concept of good ideas that they were actually implemented.


I understand the analogy, then, to rejecting unsolicited scripts. But a simple disclaimer on the comment forms would accomplish just as much, without what I consider a guest relations nightmare of insisting a guest's verbal comment will somehow get to the right party to address or consider their concern.

The problem with a disclaimer, of course, is that it doesn't prevent lawsuits from being filed. Those suits can be gotten rid of quickly enough ... but not without paying lawyers to do it. I guess Disney feels that no written comment means less people will feel confident enough to file a suit absent the "evidence" of the "consulting" work they did for Disney when they suggested less salty popcorn.


But it's throwing out the baby with the bath water, imo. Returning mail sent to corporate headquarters if they so much as mention a Disney resort visit is disgusting. Most of the feedback may be garbage ... but to have a theme park and resort company whose policy is to refuse all written comment from paying customers seems pretty antithetical to the Disney (as in Walt) and Disney (as in land) philosopy of guest relations.

[BarTopDancer]

How are you supposed to leave compliments? If you leave verbal there is no guarantee the CM will remember to relay it. If you mail it in, and it mentions the visit it's returned to sender.

[Isaac]

Don't worry too much.

I still have Al Lutz' email and phone # ;)

One false move & it'll end up on MiceChat/ or MiceAge.

[Gemini Cricket]

If the CMs won't be getting compliments, they certainly won't be hearing about complaints either. I predict chaos. I predict unruly CMs who now have a blank check to Mickey thugs without fear of disciplinary repercussions.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Meh. People were overloading a system that was never designed to accomplish the goal that the guests were attempting to use it for. It's a system that was designed to get some feedback on individual job performance. That's it. The kind of feedback that I saw it used for, while may have been perfectly reasonable thoughts (I'm sure some of it had to be, right?), was nothing but off topic datapoints. So in the end all you had were managers annoyed that they were unable to sort out the feedback that would help them do their job, and guests getting increasingly frustrating at being ignored becuase they were, well, being ignored. Lose, lose.

[NickO'Time]

Maybe it's their way of going green.
Less paper= more trees :)

I realize this is sarcasm, but there are companies going this direction.

I'm not happy with this Go-f yourself policy either. It's another example of growing mediocrity at Disney.

[NirvanaMan]

Are you mad at Disney or at our ridiculous legal system that gives credence to absurd complaints?

[NickO'Time]

Are you mad at Disney or at our ridiculous legal system that gives credence to absurd complaints?

I see where Disney is coming from on a legal level,(which the legal system is a mess) but I still feel there isn't the same level of excellence there once was at the park. Tomorrowland for starters(that's a whole other subject)

Don't get me wrong, I have a good time at the park either way and don't nitpick the park apart when I am there.

[€uroMeinke]

I presume you can still send comments in an email? Or even write a letter if you need it to be on paper.

[NirvanaMan]

How many of our politicians are former lawyers?

[Stan4dSteph]

I presume you can still send comments in an email? Or even write a letter if you need it to be on paper.Yep.

David Koenig also reported on this on August 1 on MP (http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=mt080801dk). You have to scroll down to the section called "Say What?" below the section on Universal.

[innerSpaceman]

I presume you can still send comments in an email? Or even write a letter if you need it to be on paper.

Yep.

Um, that's Yep on email, but NO on letters.


The freaky part is the teams of drones who will scan your letter for any mention of a Disney resort visit, then immediately close your letter and return it to you ... apparently with a form letter explaining their new policy.


Interesting about email. But how do you get an appropriate email address?


* * * * * *
BTW, the legal system is designed perfectly well to be rid of the nuisance suits this policy is designed to discourage. Disney can "demurrer" to each one of them, and the cases will be thrown out of court pretty quick. But that is something lawyers do, and lawyers charge for.

The human system is what's broken. But Disney has to deal with the current human system when it decides to charge each current human $100 to enter the parks. (One-Day Hopper just went up to $94.)

Telling your paying customers they can't complain or comment in writing is a poor way to respond to the current human system. It may be efficient, but it's insulting to your so-called "guests." Remember, Disney is supposed to treat its visitors as guests, not as customers. And this is a lame way to treat even your customers, much less your guests.

[Ghoulish Delight]

And this is a lame way to treat even your customers, much less your guests.
If every time you had your good friends over as guests to your home, and you had a tradition of having cards that say, "Please tell me what you thought of the meal so I can work on the recipe to make it even better," they left a written note telling you how much your curtains sucked and that you should go back to your old curtains, and then left another note pointing out the bit of baseboard in your bathroom with a chip on it, and then a note detailing why you're a horrible homeowner, etc. What kind of guests does that make them?

[Gemini Cricket]

Yeah, but I don't charge my friends $70 per person to come see me. $94 if they go to both of my houses in the same day.

[scaeagles]

I don't charge my guests $70 to come to my house for the day, and they don't pay for the meal either. There is no line to jump in my pool that you have to wait an hour for and then only stay in for 3 minutes.

[Gemini Cricket]

I don't charge my guests $70 to come to my house for the day, and they don't pay for the meal either. There is no line to jump in my pool that you have to wait an hour for and then only stay in for 3 minutes.
Ew. Don't agree with me. It gives me the shivers.

:D

[scaeagles]

I gave you the shivers the other night, too, and you liked it....oh, wait. That was a secret. Sorry.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be some outlet for the guests to give feedback. But the City Hall comments system was not that outlet. All anyone was doing was pissing off leads who wanted some idea of who their good employees were and who their bad employees were. No one was accomplishing any part of their goal on either side. The system had to go.

[Alex]

Really, they should just have continued the current system and trained the City Hall CMs to round file the comments that would be inappropriate for passing onward. And put a disclaimer on the comment card.

Then "CM Gustav did a [fantastic|horrible] job" comments can be passed on, "CM Gustav did a [fantastic|horrible] job and you should paint Mark Twain orange" comments can be redacted and passed on and "you should paint Mark Twain orange" comments can be shredded.

The customer leaves happy they got to vent their spleen, secure in the knowledge that nobody in power would ever see it (which I'm sure is the assumption even under the old system). And the pissed off customer has an outlet where they can go rather than taking it out on front line CMs out in the attractions/stores/restaurants.

The only difference this will really cause is that the City Hall CMs have to sit there and listen to the angry people and then probably send them away angrier.

[innerSpaceman]

So tell me, Mr. Delight ... what's the current system, and how does it not involve City Hall?. In fact, now it exclusively involves City Hall. That's the ONLY place you can register a comment of any kind ... you just can't do it in writing.


And Mr. Cricket already nailed your houseguest analogy. Disney charges extreme amounts of money to be their "guest," so taking away a guest's ability to submit a written comment about their experience is beyond rude.


You may not expect a written comment from your houseguests, but would a thank you card be unheard of? If they dared to write that your recipe for ghoulish goulash were too spicy, would you send it back unread?



And yes, Alex, I pity the poor City Hall CM who's going to listen to me vent EVERY SINGLE TIME I'M AT THE PARK until this policy is reversed.


Fortunately for them, that won't be often.

[Not Afraid]

I know! I think Disney should just read the myriad of complaints that are written on MiceChat and use that for their complaint system.

Oh wait.

[innerSpaceman]

Heheh, but they do that already.


In fact, that's brilliant. We'll just post all complaints on micechat. Disney's prying eyes are all over it!

[Fab]

The thing is ... the reasoning behind this is not to be rid of the admittedly absurd ton of STUPID complaints ... but to avoid trouble with lawsuits from suggestions that were so in synch with Disney's concept of good ideas that they were actually implemented.


I understand the analogy, then, to rejecting unsolicited scripts. But a simple disclaimer on the comment forms would accomplish just as much, without what I consider a guest relations nightmare of insisting a guest's verbal comment will somehow get to the right party to address or consider their concern.

The problem with a disclaimer, of course, is that it doesn't prevent lawsuits from being filed. Those suits can be gotten rid of quickly enough ... but not without paying lawyers to do it. I guess Disney feels that no written comment means less people will feel confident enough to file a suit absent the "evidence" of the "consulting" work they did for Disney when they suggested less salty popcorn.


But it's throwing out the baby with the bath water, imo. Returning mail sent to corporate headquarters if they so much as mention a Disney resort visit is disgusting. Most of the feedback may be garbage ... but to have a theme park and resort company whose policy is to refuse all written comment from paying customers seems pretty antithetical to the Disney (as in Walt) and Disney (as in land) philosopy of guest relations.

But it's not Disney as in Walt, and it hasn't been since Frank Wells died. I doubt if it ever will be again. Having seen the bs that people claim so that they can get goodies ("I got wet on Splash Mountain and it ruined my day!") I think this is a wise move.

I also think it will make the job easier for the frontline CMs that have to handle complaint after complaint from people who were told to complain by a website or two. You know?

I do know that if I get oil on my shirt like I did one time from the tram, they'll still replace my shirt; that if my dad's seatbelt comes off in the middle of Indy again, even though it clicked shut properly when closed, they'll do something about that. Manhole covers? Not so much.

YMMV, imnho only.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So tell me, Mr. Delight ... what's the current system, and how does it not involve City Hall?. In fact, now it exclusively involves City Hall. That's the ONLY place you can register a comment of any kind ... you just can't do it in writing.I'm [ETA: NOT] trying to say they've come up with a good solution. But at least now the managers whose job it was to evaluate CM performance will no longer have to be burdened with sorting through countless useless pieces of paper, filing them all away to do absolutely nothing with. It's a waste of time and effort that met absolutely no one's needs.

Whether the need has been addressed with any new system is a separate question. But I don't see how the guests are in any worse of a position now. Before they could write a complaint and have it ignored. Now they can say a complaint and have it ignored. Big loss.

As for there being no outlet anymore, I am skeptical of the description of how snail mail will be handled. If there is a legitimate issue in a letter, they'll be idiots not to address it. Miceage is still down so I can't read the article, but I'm guessing there's a bit of hyperbole involved here.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

And yes, Alex, I pity the poor City Hall CM who's going to listen to me vent EVERY SINGLE TIME I'M AT THE PARK until this policy is reversed.Why are you so keen to do this? You do realize that it solves nothing, feeds your anger, and puts a burden on that CM?

I guess the rationale is that it's somehow your park, your company. That you are a member of the Disney family, that you are a "guest". Right. It's their company, it's their money, it's their decision. Sure, I pitch a fit when they do things I don't like, or that I don't think are befitting the company, but we all know that this system is horribly abused by certain people. We don't have blinders on. The amount of time and money they spend on complaints is enormous. What a waste.

I do know that if I get oil on my shirt like I did one time from the tram, they'll still replace my shirt; that if my dad's seatbelt comes off in the middle of Indy again, even though it clicked shut properly when closed, they'll do something about that. Manhole covers? Not so much. Total agreement.

It's not even like the complaints affected anything...

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, but I'm one of the people who abused the system!!!



Seriously, I used to write letters of complaint or commendation to Disneyland Guest Relations, but tired of the form letters I got in return.

I stopped doing that about 15 years ago.


But two or three times in those last 15 years, I wanted to register a complaint. And I hoped someone would read it. Sure, it probably went nowhere ... but putting it in writing allowed me the ILLUSION it was going somewhere. A verbal complaint allows me no such illusion ... and it's why I insisted, over the usual deflections, on writing a complaint.


There were also 8-10 times I wrote a CM compliment, and 1 or 2 times something was so messed up I wrote a CM complaint. I think those are particularly important.

Yes, I understand it's their company and they can do as they please. I'm just saying I think their decision sucks. It's bad guest psychology at the very least ... and the less Disney recognizes the importance of guest psychology, the more PresslerHarrisized the place gets.



Yes, it must be tough handing the barrage of written junk from paying customers. Perhaps they can hire some people to handle that, perhaps by raising daily ticket prices the few more dollars to THREE FIGURES.

[Not Afraid]

I guess Disney popped the bubble of illusion.

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, the same bubble that Jiminy Cricket pops under the sea ... only to find out he's still underwater.

[Isaac]

Yes, but I'm one of the people who abused the system!!!

Seriously, I used to write letters of complaint or commendation to Disneyland Guest Relations, but tired of the form letters I got in return.

I stopped doing that about 15 years ago.


But two or three times in those last 15 years, I wanted to register a complaint. And I hoped someone would read it. Sure, it probably went nowhere ... but putting it in writing allowed me the ILLUSION it was going somewhere. A verbal complaint allows me no such illusion ... and it's why I insisted, over the usual deflections, on writing a complaint.


There were also 8-10 times I wrote a CM compliment, and 1 or 2 times something was so messed up I wrote a CM complaint. I think those are particularly important.

Yes, I understand it's their company and they can do as they please. I'm just saying I think their decision sucks. It's bad guest psychology at the very least ... and the less Disney recognizes the importance of guest psychology, the more PresslerHarrisized the place gets.


Yes, it must be tough handing the barrage of written junk from paying customers. Perhaps they can hire some people to handle that, perhaps by raising daily ticket prices the few more dollars to THREE FIGURES.

LOL!

If you've abused the system & haven't used it for years then I think you're getting a little too worked up about this.

As we've already stated, there are still ways to file a complaint. You can tell the CMs @ City Hall or send an email via Disneyland.com. If you still prefer the old method of putting pen to paper, just write them a personal letter & mail it to them. Just cause Disney is no longer providing you w/ the pen & paper doesn't mean you can't write to them.

Don't get upset; get creative ;)

I think this decision probably had to do with the more ridiculous complaints. Some people go to City Hall to complain about stupid things like 'why doesn't Disney sell Diet Sprite', 'why isn't there a Starbucks in Disneyland' and 'I can't wait 15 minutes for the monorail'. Eliminating the written form cuts down on the number of records of stupid complaints, and speeds up the process of dealing w/ the complaints. It makes sense.

[Moonliner]

I would seem to place a lot of power in the hands of the City Hall CM's.

An attractions CM accidently bumps one in the lunch line and the next thing you know a family of four from Boise has reported that the attractions CM leered at their pre-teen daughter.

[Alex]

At minimum they should place a keyboard under the counter so that CMs can be typing in the complaint given verbally by the customer. It need never be mentioned that the keyboard isn't connected to anything.

[innerSpaceman]

Hahah, I like that.


zapp .... you and i have, i think, registered the same complaints. Johnny Depp on Pirates. Stupid Diss Bride on Haunted Mansion. Those kind of things. We put them in writing.

You CAN'T write a letter anymore. They will send it back unread. That's what I find most disgusting about this policy.


I like the email angle. They will, under the same policy, likely just delete the email once any Disney resort visit is mentioned.


My "creative" solution is to mention it verbally at City Hall every chance I get. I'm not going to get pissy with any CM, or leave more angry than I went in ... because I'm not going in angry.

But Alex is right that many people are going to leave more angry than they came in once they are told they can't write a comment (and if they were told their written comment mailed to Disney HQ will simply be returned unread, I wouldn't be surprised if anger mounted to something more dangerous).

[BDBopper]

There needs to be a system for people to give compliments. And if Disney won't do it then Gosh darn it I will do it myself!

[Isaac]

You CAN'T write a letter anymore. They will send it back unread. That's what I find most disgusting about this policy.
When did they start doing that :confused:

It seems rather odd. In the past I've sent a couple written letter & received a form letter response but never returned unread. The address I used was:

Disneyland® Resort
Guest Relations
P.O. Box 3232
Anaheim, CA 92803-3232

Hmm.....

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

What if you poop into a box and send that? Will they return it?

[Gemini Cricket]

I sent an email to WDW about their rhinoceros' health and I got a call from the Animal Kingdom vet.
So, I guess it depends...

[Moonliner]

I sent an email to WDW about their rhinoceros' health and I got a call from the Animal Kingdom vet.
So, I guess it depends...

This one?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/Moonliner/P6170074.jpg

[Gemini Cricket]

Yes.

[Moonliner]

Yes.

And?

[Gemini Cricket]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you knew. It is mud. But I sent the email before I read your response in the other thread.
:)

[Moonliner]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you knew. It is mud. But I sent the email before I read your response in the other thread.
:)

Told ya :p

[innerSpaceman]

When did they start doing that :confused:

Heheh, you're the one who pointed us to Al's Update in the first place (they've been so infrequent, I forgot all about checking miceage once in a blue).

So read it. The policy is new, and maybe hasn't started yet. But that's the part that really ticks me off. Returning letters unread. Fukthat.



And remember ... this is NOT about the asshat complaints. This is about not having people think Disney is liable for adopting the great idea they suggested in writing.

[Isaac]

Ah, found it!

If a visitor absolutely insists on writing a letter, the Guest Relations CM's can give the park visitor the snail mail address for Disney's corporate legal office, and that's when the real fun begins. Assuming the park visitor actually takes the time to write a letter the old fashioned way and send it to Burbank, the letter is opened by hand and scanned by a small batallion of office drones in cubicles, and when the letter contains a phrase or sentence that mentions a visit to a Disney park, it is folded closed. Once closed, the visitors letter is attached to a form letter that politely informs the reader that this correspondence has been formally rejected by Disney for liability reasons and has been returned to the sender without further acknowledgement of the company.
The form letter and the visitor's original letter are then stuffed into a larger envelope, and the packet is returned to the sender via regular mail.

Okay, yeah, that IS complete crap!

[JWBear]

I predict this will be a PR disaster for the company.

[BarTopDancer]

Ah, found it!

If a visitor absolutely insists on writing a letter, the Guest Relations CM's can give the park visitor the snail mail address for Disney's corporate legal office, and that's when the real fun begins. Assuming the park visitor actually takes the time to write a letter the old fashioned way and send it to Burbank, the letter is opened by hand and scanned by a small batallion of office drones in cubicles, and when the letter contains a phrase or sentence that mentions a visit to a Disney park, it is folded closed. Once closed, the visitors letter is attached to a form letter that politely informs the reader that this correspondence has been formally rejected by Disney for liability reasons and has been returned to the sender without further acknowledgement of the company.
The form letter and the visitor's original letter are then stuffed into a larger envelope, and the packet is returned to the sender via regular mail.

Okay, yeah, that IS complete crap!

You can't even write "CM Joe Smith on PoTC made my trip to Disneyland completely magical by [doing something super piratey] and making my kids day" No more compliments either.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Which is why I am HIGHLY skeptical of this accounting of the new procedure. It seems ludicrous, and likely is. I'm willing to bet it's either hyperbole or a bad game of telephone.

[Kevy Baby]

Yes.No.

[Gemini Cricket]

No.
Quite.

[innerSpaceman]

If Al hadn't been right 98% of the time, I would dismiss this as pure hogwash ... that's how absurdly bad PR it is.


But, because of the source's record, I give it high credence.



That's NOT to say the policy won't change before implemented, and that's precisely the point - I daresay - of Al publishing it. Let's write in right now, while we still can. Heheh, we don't even have to mention a Disney resort if we want to complain about this policy.

[Fab]

I'll write a complaint letter from Kanga's Kitchen.

[RStar]

What if you poop into a box and send that? Will they return it?No, it is delivered directly to The Inbetween for the daily special. ;)

And if Disney won't do it then Gosh darn it I will do it myself!
Thank you!! :D


As stupid as this system sounds, I still find it more rediculous that there was a line of asshats stretching from City Hall all the way down most of Main Street demanding a refund because the ground under California had the gall to rumble out an earthquake while they were there. Like it was Disney's fault. :rolleyes:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

That's NOT to say the policy won't change before implemented, and that's precisely the point - I daresay - of Al publishing it. Let's write in right now, while we still can. Heheh, we don't even have to mention a Disney resort if we want to complain about this policy.Again, you seem really keen on complaining. Ooh, let's complain about not being able to complain!

Seriously, the whole point of this is to not get feedback. They don't want it anymore. So why would they care about your complaint about the new policy?

[Gemini Cricket]

Like it was Disney's fault. :rolleyes:
Ha ha! That's funny. Fault.
:D

[Moonliner]

I expect the policy is a direct result of the Disney message boards.

Clearly the Disney suits are getting all the fully vetted, detailed and important feedback they need from monitoring these sites rendering the need for written comments by average guests obsolete.

[BarTopDancer]

I expect the policy is a direct result of the Disney message boards.

Clearly the Disney suits are getting all the fully vetted, detailed and important feedback they need from monitoring these sites rendering the need for written comments by average guests obsolete.

How about expectations set by Disney message boards.

Before I went to WDW I was checking out some other boards that were more WDWcentric. All I have to say is wow, some of those boards can set the expectations so high. If I had never been to a Disney park before (and hadn't been familiar with Disney message boards) I would have been disappointed that the towels weren't made into animal shapes, frustrated that no one gave me fastpasses because it rained in FL* and our room wasn't clean when we came back around 1pm to rest.

Ok, not really - that's not my style. A hotel is a bed to sleep in. The most disappointing thing was leaving. So it rained every day. What do you think happens in FL in June.

Message boards, especially some of the WDWcentric ones are creating unreasonable expectations. As a result of these unreasonable expectations, unreasonable people who are now upset because Disney can't control the weather, because people who were there the 2nd weekend in January had empty parks to play in and lines for anything in July were an hour long are complaining. A CM doesn't smile and give your kid something? Complain. City Hall will give you free stuff.

I hope this system morphs into something that can again be used for compliments and legitimate concerns.


*:rolleyes:

[Alex]

Seriously, the whole point of this is to not get feedback. They don't want it anymore. So why would they care about your complaint about the new policy?


But this policy doesn't do ANYTHING to reduce the feedback. People are still going to go to City Hall and complain. It is just that now the CMs there won't be able to pass the buck.

This won't do anything to stop the "oh noes, it rained for 20 minutes, I want my money back complaints." Things where the customer is expecting immediate recourse.

So, it seems to me, all this policy does it take some fraction of those ephemeral comments where the CMs could pass it off with a "thanks for your input, it'll be reviewed" into situations where some form of immediate response is expected since no other kind can be offered. An interaction of "I have stood here and listened to you speak, now leave" is one that tends to inflame emotions in customers rather than diffusing them.

Now, if Disney had done something to reduce the number of complaints coming in I might understand the change. This just looks like changing the number of complaints listened to while angering the complainers further.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It'll change the number of complaints from APers. Sure, the day guests are still going to come in, and maybe some of them will be more annoyed at having to walk away. But there's going to be a percentage habitual passholding complainers that, without the slim glimmer of hope that someone's not ignoring them that a piece of paper brings, are no longer going to bother going in.

I wouldn't be surprised if the long term plan is to eliminate it until they break those people of the habit of coming in to City Hall to complain that they didn't get their favorite parking spot in Mickey & Friends, then roll out some new system that serves everyone's purposes better.

[innerSpaceman]

How is that habit going to be broken when they were handing out refunds for a one-hour ride closure due to Earthquake?


I fail to understand why everyone but Alex fails to understand. This does NOTHING to stem the tide of stupid complaints. All it does is actually INCREASE the desire for immediate action right there at City Hall.


Heheh, I'm going to scream till I'm blue in the face until they walk over to Pirates and rip out Johnny Depp right before my eyes!



Again, it's not THE POINT TO STOP THE COMPLAINTS. They don't care about the complaints. The entire point is to avoid claims of consultant fee liabilties for POSTIVE SUGGESTIONS.

And so, in the biggest baby bathwater boondoggle I've ever heard of, a resort operator is going to cease allowing written guest feedback. WTF?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think it MIGHT reduce stupid complaints to a small degree, but for the most part I think it'll be a wash in the complaint department. I still contend that the most obvious impetus is to reduce paperwork for City Hall staff. To me, it breaks down like this:

BEFORE: Tons of stupid complaints and a lot of filing of pieces of paper with stupid complaints on them, invalidating the point of paying for the pieces of paper and filing system.

AFTER: Tons of stupid complaints and no filing of pieces of paper with stupid complains on them.

[Alex]

And still the obvious solution, to me, is to take the paper and then just shred it. Then the complainers are happy they were given the option and the company doesn't have the liability.

I understand the goal they have, but they chose the most abrasive solution (from a customer service point of view).

They are trading a cheap item (pieces of paper) for an expensive item (increased use of CM time which is expensive, even at $9/hour).

[Kevy Baby]

Heheh, I'm going to scream till I'm blue in the face until they walk over to Pirates and rip out Johnny Depp right before my eyes!Hee hee... And I know I am in the minority on the board, but I will be fighting with you on that detail as I LIKE the first two Captain Jacks in PotC.

And I SUSPECT that if a poll were taken of all who visit Disneyland, the majority would agree with me.

But this argument has been had ad nauseum and I don't want to start it back up again, so please treat post this like a complaint at City Hall.

[Moonliner]

Of course one always has the option to insist to the point where your comments are included as part of the police report. At lest you know they won't shred that.....

[Alex]

In reading the reports from Al Lutz and David Koenig again they don't quite agree in what CMs will do with the comments received verbally from customers (David doesnt talk about anything beyond the customer/CM interaction at City Hall). In David's version the appearance of taking record of the complaint is maintained even if nothing much gets done with it.

[RStar]

And still the obvious solution, to me, is to take the paper and then just shred it.

I agree, but...

The possible problem with that is a CM has to decide who's complaints are shreded and who's aren't. How do you write the SOPs for that? Wouldn't a "Frivolous Complaint" be subjective?

And if it gets out that after you complain Disney just shreds the complaints at the end of the day, then it will be a PR issue bigger than the one this new policy will generate. I mean, once Disney accepts the complaint form, is it not a legal document?

[innerSpaceman]

It's not a "legal" document in that it doesn't obligate them to do anything, not even keep it.


But it would be very poor guest relations to simply shred the comment forms upon receipt.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I agree, but...

The possible problem with that is a CM has to decide who's complaints are shreded and who's aren't. How do you write the SOPs for that? Wouldn't a "Frivolous Complaint" be subjective?

And if it gets out that after you complain Disney just shreds the complaints at the end of the day, then it will be a PR issue bigger than the one this new policy will generate. I mean, once Disney accepts the complaint form, is it not a legal document?Legal doc? Really?

All I can speak for is my experience at the library. We have comment forms. No matter how frivolous your comment, we hand it to whomever should handle it, usually a supervisor of some sort. If they write down their phone number or address, we contact them. Seriously, no matter how trivial or stupid. If you wish to complain to the Librarian in Charge, about anything, you can, at any time, and they will stand there and listen and respond.

This only works because at maximum, our head supervisor handles one a day. It's usually more like one a week. Recently we made a change, a stupid change, and we're getting pretty steady complaints, but even that is totally manageable without any problem.

It's all about scale.

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, it is.

Think on the Disney money scale. It's vast. To expect them to run a more complicated operation than the library could manage is, I believe, perfectly reasonable.


To expect them to err on the side of guest satisfaction, as the library policy does, is pretty reasonable, I'd say, for a company named Disney ... perhaps less so for a company named ExxonMobil.



Yep, Disney has set itself up for a pretty high level of guest service, and has set itself with the money and resources to accomplish it.


I like it when they do, and don't when they don't. that simple.

[Alex]

The possible problem with that is a CM has to decide who's complaints are shreded and who's aren't. How do you write the SOPs for that? Wouldn't a "Frivolous Complaint" be subjective?

But that is exactly what the current situation does (per Al's description). You give your comment verbally. The CM makes up a list of the comments received. They telephone whoever is appropriate for the comments deserving forwarding and then they shred the list they created.

I really don't see how this is any less complex than the previous method. How it saves CM time, and how it isn't horrible customer service to leave the customer with no other feeling of result other than having had a front line CM listen to them rant (or compliment or whatever)

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's not a "legal" document in that it doesn't obligate them to do anything, not even keep it.


Legal doc? Really?
Legal no, but don't underestimate the power of ISO-9000 standards. Depending how seriously a company takes ISO standards, it might as well be law. A company as large as Disney gets a LOT of scrutiny into their operations, or so I've heard. So it doesn't matter how retarded and inflexible it obviously is, you'd better have a squeaky clean record with the ISO committee. Wouldn't want that stock price to drop, would we? So yes, you will be keeping every single scrap of paper that any of our customers hand to us. For no other purpose than to say you have it and it's accessible. I have fortunately not had the pleasure of working for a company that's that draconian about it, but it's easy to see how a company could very quickly go down that path.

It's one of the many things I despise about corporate culture right now. But it's a fact. And the whole getting rid of paper just screams of managers sick of dealing with that overhead in their department for absolutely no reason other than show to investors, so they found a way around it. Get rid of the paper.

[katiesue]

I used to work at a public (as in listed on NASDAQ) gaming company. We'd get all sorts of people who'd send in the next "brilliant" gaming idea. We made copies of their letter and send them back with a sorry we don't accept unsolicited ideas letter. It sounds like this is something similiar - so you can't sue them for say your brilliant idea of bringing the peoplemover back or an additional drinking fountain somewhere. Most companies don't take unsolicited "suggestions".

[€uroMeinke]

Paper based systems are inefficient - I see this as a way of eliminating a cumbersome paper process.

I don't think Disney is ISO 9000 certified, is there an ISO quality standard for entertainment? If we're going to throw around irrelevant standards or requirements I think we should stake our complaints on Sarbanes Oxley Instead.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Paper based systems are inefficient - I see this as a way of eliminating a cumbersome paper process.

I don't think Disney is ISO 9000 certified, is there an ISO quality standard for entertainment? If we're going to throw around irrelevant standards or requirements I think we should stake our complaints on Sarbanes Oxley Instead.Hmm, I don't think I ever stopped to consider whether ISO was only for tech industry or not. I just kinda figured there'd be SOME form of similar standard, even before S.O. Something not from the legal world, but industry driven. Nevermind then.

[Alex]

I've never worked in an ISO corporation (I've never worked for a tech company though I've always worked in the tech side of them). There's an ISO standard for financial services but I've never heard of anybody using it.

Lani's company (tech) was ISO something certified but she's not sure if they still are because she hasn't seen it mentioned in a long time.

[€uroMeinke]

There are lots of ISO standards, but usually when people talk ISO certified they are referring to the ISO 9000 series which is a quality standard for primarily manufacturing companies. Often companies will require that their suppliers be ISO 9000 certified as a way of ensuring that their products are built with quality standards. Of course the reality of ISO 9000 is it's a process of documenting and tracking quality - so you can still make crap products and be ISO 9000 certified as long as you document everything properly.

[RStar]

I work in a manufacturing plant (in R&D), and all documentation to produce a product, and all development paperwork is considered legal. As such, no correction fluid is allowed (it's altering legal documents). And when a copy is made, it's stamped "COPY". When we are done with it shredding is the ONLY way to dispose of it.

But now that I think of it, a guest comment is from the outside, not part of daily operations, per se. And they don't manufacture a product. So the documentation is a different game. While they do provide a service, the main documentation they need to keep in tight control (other than financial of course) is in saftey.

But I agree with most here. Why throw out the good comments with bad? It's like saying "We know exactly what we are doing, and we don't need your feedback because, face it. We are Disney, and you are nobody."

[Ghoulish Delight]

. Of course the reality of ISO 9000 is it's a process of documenting and tracking quality - so you can still make crap products and be ISO 9000 certified as long as you document everything properly.
Which is why I always thought of it as ultimately just an indicator (if woefully misguided) of whether a company can keep their sh*t together. Which is why I just kinda assumed it existed across all industries as that'd be the kind of thing an investor would want to have an indicator of, no matter the industry.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I work in a manufacturing plant (in R&D), and all documentation to produce a product, and all development paperwork is considered legal. As such, no correction fluid is allowed (it's altering legal documents). And when a copy is made, it's stamped "COPY". When we are done with it shredding is the ONLY way to dispose of it.I'd be willing to be that stems from ISO standards, not legal. But it's of an equally pedantic nature so the two often get confused by over-zealous executives.

[€uroMeinke]

Depending what it is you are manufacturing, there may be other laws or regulations that apply - Pharmaceuticals for example.

[lashbear]

All I worry about is, if I compliment a CM, do they really get that feedback... No, scratch that. I tell them to their face anyway, so THEY do get that feedback.

...but do their Managers/Leads really get it? I'd like to think so, but...

Stoat has a great fix ! I'll let him explain.

[LashStoat]

SusieAnn Krellingshaw, aged 11.5 of Arkansas, who is currently studying “Theme Park Law” at the Upper Arkansas Lower Primary School for the Mentally Under-Challenged has this to say about non-written feedback for organisations such as Disney.

"The whole ‘let's throw the baby out with the bath-water’ mentality is becoming endemic to the point of paranoia. The notion that feedback – both good and …ummm… less than good – will be passed to the appropriate people without alteration (aka The Chinese Whisper) is ludicrous in the extreme".

SusieAnn adds:

"Vested interest in passing on feedback accurately or otherwise will surely come into play, so as to make it purely unrealiable hearsay…and people will also just forget because they are thinking of the slumber party on Saturday at Cindy’s house".

She then goes on to describe the White Paper she put forward for her Term Project in Theme Park Law, in which she suggests a web portal for such companies that require feedback without the associated “Gold Digging” so often practiced by the Helpful.

"Just get them to click I Accept to a statement akin to an End User License Agreement (EULA) before they share their precious gems of wisdom”. Companies like Disney could have a few kiosk-like terminals in Town Hall that take The Helpful through the EULA and survey process”.

SusieAnn is looking forward to next term’s studies in “Browser-Based Feedback Kiosk Software Design” and “Integrated Circuit Fault Diagnostics for Quad-Layer Boards”.

[lashbear]

So, what SusieAnn is saying is that Disney should install a web-based feedback system, at the park (in kiosks), and on their website, that would make people click to agree to a statement such as "Any suggestions I may make become the property of Disney and I relinquish all further claims to such ideas", (Or something similar), before they can submit ideas/feedback ?

[LashStoat]

Dear Uncle Bear,

Well, in a word, yes. It’s too bad my White Paper had a minimum word count.

Love SusieAnn xxx

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I've seen similar ideas out there (though I don't think there are any that are Disney related). Angie's List (http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/) comes to mind, though that is subscription-based.

As it is, I'd recommend complaining at MiceChat except that the deafening roar of thousands of other posts defeats the purpose. I'm sure someone will make a forum for Disney complaints....

[Fab]

I've seen similar ideas out there (though I don't think there are any that are Disney related). Angie's List (http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/) comes to mind, though that is subscription-based.

As it is, I'd recommend complaining at MiceChat except that the deafening roar of thousands of other posts defeats the purpose. I'm sure someone will make a forum for Disney complaints....

That's what MiceChat IS.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

That's what MiceChat IS.Yeah, I know. But again, useless, due to all the noise.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

:) I'm sure there's a thread already. eer. I mean noise.

[CoasterMatt]

Today I had an interaction with a guest that was wonderful- to the point that he asked to speak to a supervisor before leaving my window. He then went to our Guest Relations, and wrote a nice note about myself and a few coworkers - and I received feedback from my immediate supervisor before I left work today.

But of course, I don't work for a Disney park.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Today I had an interaction with a guest that was wonderful- to the point that he asked to speak to a supervisor before leaving my window. He then went to our Guest Relations, and wrote a nice note about myself and a few coworkers - and I received feedback from my immediate supervisor before I left work today.
But I'd also bet that Guest Relations there doesn't deal with anything near the volume of what amount to hand written message board posts that City Hall does. So the system gets the input it was designed for and produces the output it was designed for. It is a great system for that. But Disney's was clogged with input that meant for managers to take the time to write those notes, they first had to do what amounted to sifting for a few flakes of gold to find those comments. Everybody loses.

I don't think they've got the right solution, but it sounds to me like a stop gap attempt to just get people out of that mindset.

Maybe if they just move operations to Toon Town City Hall. That could go either way. I know a lot of APers who eye Toon Town as if it were the leading edge of the sands of the Sahara, so it would keep people away. On the other hand, that means that any that decided to brave it anyway are going to in really bad moods at having to walk into Toon Town.

[innerSpaceman]

GD, where are you getting the notion that the system at Disneyland is "bogged down?" That the pipeline was clogged with managers transcribing guest complaints to paper? Huh?

Where are you getting any of this stuff, and what makes you think this type of thing has anything to do with the Disney policy change ... which I'll say again ... according to Al's piece ... is for compensation liability issues.

Am i missing something in that article? In another article? I believe this whole business about ceasing intake because they were overwhelmed is merely assumption.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh, I know I don't have any inside info. I'm going on pure speculation and observation.

I've usually heard the system referred to as the "Guest Compliment" system. Which I've always assumed indicated the purpose for which it's designed. And I've seen too many other corporate systems that people try to use for purposes for which they were not designed do nothing but frustrate the people who designed the system AND the people who are now using it for something else. Suddenly, the people whose job it is to handle the system are doing something they never signed up for and things break down. The attitudes I've seen from the CM's I've heard refer to it, and from the guests that I've seen use it (including myself) just remind me a whole lot of attitudes I've seen before. On top of that, I've seen plenty a frustrated user of such a system try anything to get someone who has the right authority to shut it down. And that would include pointing out weird legal loopholes that it just might be exposing you to because they know that'll get the attention of people with influence. So it's possible for both my version AND Al's version to be equally true. Legal considerations being the official corporate reason, day-to-day frustration of the users being why the system was being scrutinized to begin with.

[figment1986]

Yeah, I know. But again, useless, due to all the noise.

I agree, before i disappeared from there it was beginning to get a little loud on opinions and stuff for things rumored and such that positive opinions on current were getting drowned in a pool of negative opinions on stuff that may or may not occur, but then again most Disney Fan sites can get like that specifically.