Obama and the smaller carbon footprint

[Tenigma]

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin had an article (http://starbulletin.com/2008/08/11/news/story01.html#full) about what the Obama family did over the weekend while on holiday. One of the things Barack did was work out at a local gym.

But a little blurb caught my eye:

"She offered him a bottle of Dasani water, which Obama declined, preferring to drink out of the water fountain."

Woot! Good for him!

[alphabassettgrrl]

I like it!

I may buy a bottle of water if I'm out somewhere, but once I have my bottle I refill it from a tap. I try to bring my regular bottle but sometimes I forget.

[Morrigoon]

Huh... a man who lives what he preaches? Take that, Al Gore!

[innerSpaceman]

Wonder if he would have accepted though, if the bottle offered weren't simply bottled tap water anyway.

[Strangler Lewis]

Just back from Switzerland and France. The thing that vexed me most was the near universal unavailability of complementary large glasses of water at restaurants. Bottle, bottle, bottle. If you begged, you'd usually get a small glass that was barely large enough to put your cigarette out in.

[BarTopDancer]

Dasani water sucks, don't blame him for preferring to drink from the tap.

[Gemini Cricket]

The tap water in Hawai'i is fine. Drink it all the time. I don't drink bottled water in Hawai'i at all.
:)

[Gemini Cricket]

LOL! I love Obama. He planned to eat at either Zippy's or Rainbow Drive-In. Rainbow's is my favorite plate lunch place!! That's so freakin' awesome!
:)

[scaeagles]

I will take my hat off to Obama for this small gesture demonstrating that perhaps it is more than simply words coming from his lips.

[Strangler Lewis]

Substantial body heat escapes through the head. Taking your hat off to Obama only harms the environment.

[scaeagles]

I get no love here. :(


:D

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I get no love here. :(


:D

Tell that to your closet full of toasters.

[Tenigma]

I get no love here. :(
Awww, we wub you!!!!

Variety is the spice of life!

[innerSpaceman]

And Dasani is the spice of tap water.

[scaeagles]

Toasters are one thing, but I even got mocked when I gave Obama props. Hmph!

I suppose I should expect that.

[JWBear]

Yes. Because we can. And, it's fun. ;)

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's proof that we don't ridicule you just because you disagree with us.

We ridicule you because you deserve it, no matter your political stances. :evil:

[€uroMeinke]

feh - if he wants my vote it'll have to be sparkling mineral water or nothing. I want my elitists to remain elite.

[lashbear]

the mans obvioutly not one of the fuzzt water set....

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Toasters are one thing, but I even got mocked when I gave Obama props. Hmph!

I suppose I should expect that....from Strangler Lewis.

[sleepyjeff]

Yeah, that bottle of water he refused makes up for the flight to hawaii for a vacation:rolleyes:

Speaking of which, when is Obama going to campaign in the heart of America? I know Hawaii and Germany are tossup states but I really doubt if they are going to decide the election;)

[BarTopDancer]

He's from HI. Is he not supposed to visit his family now?

[sleepyjeff]

He can visit his family anytime or anywhere he wants(I wonder if his plane got better fuel millage by properly inflating the landing gear)......I am only pointing out the absurdity of saying he's living the green life because he refused to drink water from a plastic bottle.

[tracilicious]

I think it means he's trying. The small things really do add up. He obviously can't give up travel, but if everyone made the same choice to drink from reusable bottles or the water fountain then it would have a huge impact on the environment.

[BarTopDancer]

He didn't say he was "living the green life'. He said he preferred to drink from the fountain. The media made a big deal about it.

And the next time he's spotted with a bottle of water in hand there will be another media circus and he'll be called a hypocrite.

[sleepyjeff]

I think it means he's trying. The small things really do add up. He obviously can't give up travel, but if everyone made the same choice to drink from reusable bottles or the water fountain then it would have a huge impact on the environment.

Fair enough...although I bet if everyone followed his example to the "T", the World would be worse off, not better, enviromentally speaking.

[Alex]

Having now read the article it occurs to me that I can no longer support Obama for president.

I didn't realize that the gym in question is a 24-Hour Fitness. 24-Hour Fitness screwed me when I moved from Hawaii back to the mainland. They failed to properly close my account and then sent me to collection without ever attempting to bill me.

Admittedly, the one that screwed me was the one on Kapiolani and not out in Kaneohe, but I still hold all Hawaii 24-Hour Fitnesses responsible. Also, it wasn't open 24 hours a day.

So, unless Obama immediately distances himself from this disgraceful institution a la Reverend Wright, I must withdraw my support.

[Alex]

Fair enough...although I bet if everyone followed his example to the "T", the World would be worse off, not better, enviromentally speaking.

Perhaps, but then 300 million people running for president would generate many issues beyond simple carbon footprint. But if we all followed his example to the Y we'd be fitter.

[sleepyjeff]

... But if we all followed his example to the Y we'd be fitter.


Heh, heh, so true. Low carb intake instead of low carb emmisions....I can get behind that.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I wonder if his plane got better fuel millage by properly inflating the landing gear

Funny you should mention that. You are aware that Obama was absolutely correct in his assertion that we would save a lot of oil by keeping our tires inflated properly, right? McCain ended up looking pretty silly by printing out his little tire gauges.

[Morrigoon]

Speaking of which, when is Obama going to campaign in the heart of America? I know Hawaii and Germany are tossup states but I really doubt if they are going to decide the election;)
Does it really matter what state he gives the speech in? It's not like any of us can get in to see them anyway, so St. Louis or Stuttgart, who cares? It'll be watered down for the evening news either way.

[Tenigma]

Yeah, that bottle of water he refused makes up for the flight to hawaii for a vacation:rolleyes:

Speaking of which, when is Obama going to campaign in the heart of America? I know Hawaii and Germany are tossup states but I really doubt if they are going to decide the election;)I know others have mentioned it but I thought I'd add a note here, since i've been following the coverage of his vacation in Hawaii.

I grew up in Hawaii. He's vacationing there but he's also visiting his grandma, who's rather old and he wanted to visit while he had a chance. Hawaii may be portrayed as exotic by the visitors' bureau but trust me, it's a lot like Southern California. It's a STATE. We speak English, we use American dollars. You don't need a passport to go there.

Let's not get started about flying. Bush didn't have to go to Beijing (and in fact it's not traditional for a sitting US president to go to the Olympics) but W seems to be on a permanent vacation now that he's a total lame duck.

[Gemini Cricket]

I grew up in Hawaii. He's vacationing there but he's also visiting his grandma, who's rather old and he wanted to visit while he had a chance. Hawaii may be portrayed as exotic by the visitors' bureau but trust me, it's a lot like Southern California. It's a STATE. We speak English, we use American dollars. You don't need a passport to go there.
Exactly. And just a couple of months ago, we started wearing shoes in Hawai'i.
:D

(Honestly, though, I had someone ask me if everyone wore slippers (flip-flops) in Hawai'i and not shoes.)
Let's not get started about flying. Bush didn't have to go to Beijing (and in fact it's not traditional for a sitting US president to go to the Olympics) but W seems to be on a permanent vacation now that he's a total lame duck.
And also there was that whole Mission Accomplished flight suit stunt. That was a waste of money. And Bush did go on month long vacations...

[sleepyjeff]

I know others have mentioned it but I thought I'd add a note here, since i've been following the coverage of his vacation in Hawaii.

I grew up in Hawaii. He's vacationing there but he's also visiting his grandma, who's rather old and he wanted to visit while he had a chance. Hawaii may be portrayed as exotic by the visitors' bureau but trust me, it's a lot like Southern California.

His reasons for traveling or no more or less valid than anyone else's. He does, however, travel more than most people and therefore he pollutes more...water bottle or not.

[Gemini Cricket]

His reasons for traveling or no more or less valid than anyone else's. He does, however, travel more than most people and therefore he pollutes more...water bottle or not.
I think the water bottle "incident" could get more people to drink tap water in Hawai'i and elsewhere. Could the benefit of more people not buying/using plastic water bottles outweigh his plane usage? Don't know, but I think it starts a dialogue about tap water and bottled water. That's a good thing.

And no one, no candidate no celebrity etc is 100% green. It is impossible. What is Obama supposed to do? Catapult to Hawai'i? Is Jolie supposed to swim to Africa?

[Tenigma]

His reasons for traveling or no more or less valid than anyone else's. He does, however, travel more than most people and therefore he pollutes more...water bottle or not.The man is actively campaigning for the highest seat in US government. What do you expect him to do, visit from his Barcolounger?

I'm the OP for this thread, and I posted it because I thought it was a nifty little tidbit that I happened to catch buried well into an article published in the local Honolulu newspaper. It was a way for the reporter to pepper her article with a little bit of personality and what she saw happen. She didn't make a huge deal about it, but I wanted to highlight it because even thought it was a very small act, it told a little bit more to me about the candidate.

[sleepyjeff]

And no one, no candidate no celebrity etc is 100% green. It is impossible. What is Obama supposed to do? Catapult to Hawaii?

It's not that he's not 100% green....it's that he's polluting far more than most people(that, in itself, I have no problem with). If he's going to get points for being "green" shouldn't he be at least as green as the average American?

As for catapulting to Hawaii......well, yes, I suppose if one must visit an Island flying is the only practical way. However, when he gets back to campaigning here in the States will he do it on the back of a train(which creates only 1/10 the pollution per passenger mile as a Jet plane) or will he continue to fly himself and his entourage around the country creating more pollution in a couple of months than my family will in our entire lives?

[Gemini Cricket]

He's not an average American. He's a senator and he's running for President.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's not that he's not 100% green....it's that he's polluting far more than most people(that, in itself, I have no problem with). If he's going to get points for being "green" shouldn't he be at least as green as the average American?All you can ask of anyone is to be as green as they can be while accomplishing the things they are trying to accomplish.

Take the hypothetical invention of a hybrid big rig truck. By your logic, switching from a diesel truck to a hybrid truck for a shipping company, while still driving the same shipping routes is not really a greener choice because the average American doesn't drive that much. A hybrid truck that drives cross country will pollute more than my traditional combustion engine car that I drive only for my commute. So that truck company has done nothing green because they use more than I do.

Travel is a job requirement for a Presidential candidate. He can't perform his job without traveling. To say his not green because he travels more than most Americans is an absurdity.

[sleepyjeff]

The man is actively campaigning for the highest seat in US government. What do you expect him to do, visit from his Barcolounger?

I'm the OP for this thread, and I posted it because I thought it was a nifty little tidbit that I happened to catch buried well into an article published in the local Honolulu newspaper. It was a way for the reporter to pepper her article with a little bit of personality and what she saw happen. She didn't make a huge deal about it, but I wanted to highlight it because even thought it was a very small act, it told a little bit more to me about the candidate.

I'd expect him to do what he's doing.....and that's great that he refused the bottle(although he doesn't seem to have a problem drinking tea from bottles, but I digress).......but let's not label him some environmental hero until his sacrifices come a little closer to what he'd have the rest of us sacrifice first.

[Gemini Cricket]

(although he doesn't seem to have a problem drinking tea from bottles, but I digress)

I don't understand that. So, the next time he feels like a Coke he should drink homemade Coke that he and Michelle make in their kitchen instead of buying one in a plastic bottle? Tea doesn't come from the tap. His point was that there's no difference between the quality of bottled water and the water in Hawai'i. And if ten people, for example, stop buying water in plastic water bottles because of what he did, I think it's quite an accomplishment.

[Kevy Baby]

...Michelle make in their kitchen instead of buying one in a plastic bottle?Well, a woman's place is in the kitchen, so I would have to say yes.
















(Runs, ducks, and hides)

[Gemini Cricket]

Well, a woman's place is in the kitchen, so I would have to say yes.

Well, I agree. And while they're there they should be making me pumpkin pie or chewy brownies.








(Kevy, where are we hiding now?)

[sleepyjeff]

.. And if ten people, for example, stop buying water in plastic water bottles because of what he did, I think it's quite an accomplishment.


A fair point......however, if only one person decides to take a trip to Hawaii because they saw Obama there...................;)

[Gemini Cricket]

A fair point......however, if only one person decides to take a trip to Hawaii because they saw Obama there...................;)
But that's a huge part of Hawai'i's economy. If visiting Hawai'i is now a must for certain people because of Obama, then good for HI.
It's amazing, actually, how many people visit HI because of 'Lost'. Tourism skyrocketed.

[scaeagles]

Well, I agree. And while they're there they should be making me pumpkin pie or chewy brownies.

Shoeless. Don't forget shoeless.

[Gemini Cricket]

Well, I agree. And while they're there they should be shoeless and making me pumpkin pie or chewy brownies.

[sleepyjeff]

All you can ask of anyone is to be as green as they can be while accomplishing the things they are trying to accomplish.


Travel is a job requirement for a Presidential candidate. He can't perform his job without traveling. To say his not green because he travels more than most Americans is an absurdity.


So we've established here today that it's ok to pollute the planet if your job requires it or if you are on vacation...so long as you, once in a while, do some small gesture, a nod if you will, towards living a more green lifestyle.

.

[sleepyjeff]

But that's a huge part of Hawai'i's economy. If visiting Hawai'i is now a must for certain people because of Obama, then good for HI.
It's amazing, actually, how many people visit HI because of 'Lost'. Tourism skyrocketed.

If you're saying it's ok to pollute if it helps the economy I don't see where we disagree.

[Kevy Baby]

So we've established here today that it's ok to pollute the planet if your job requires it or if you are on vacation...so long as you, once in a while, do some small gesture, a nod if you will, towards living a more green lifestyle.

If you're saying it's ok to pollute if it helps the economy I don't see where we disagree.Well, that is certainly one spin that could be placed on it.

No one ever said that "it is okay to pollute." We all pollute in varying forms. With currently mass available/reasonably affordable technology, the question becomes whether one is doing their best to reduce their carbon footprint.

[BarTopDancer]

SJ,

I'm really confused about the point you are trying to make. It sounds like you're saying that if you prefer to drink tap water instead of bottled water you shouldn't be drinking any other bottled beverages, participate in any sort of travel and live a completely green lifestyle.

Is that correct?

[Gemini Cricket]

If you're saying it's ok to pollute if it helps the economy I don't see where we disagree.
So it's your thinking that in order for Obama to be green with integrity, he should not fly, drive, drink any beverage out of bottles ever... I find that to be extreme thinking. Drinking bottled water is not necessary in Hawai'i, the water is fine. Using a plane to get to Hawai'i is necessary.

Obama is trying to change people's thinking about green issues. This is a small step. Gavin Newsom did a smiliar thing, getting people who work in his building not to drink bottled water. In that case, I don't know if I agree with him because the water in SF doesn't taste good to me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If you're saying it's ok to pollute if it helps the economy I don't see where we disagree.
Do you have a magic fairy wand that will let us snap our fingers and make all pollution-generating technology disappear and be replaced with non-polluting?

It's absurd to ask the world to come to a stop while we figure sh*t out. Things still need to get done and it unfortunately still takes burning fossil fuels to do it. So you do the best you can with what's available now. What more can you ask for?

[Gemini Cricket]

What more can you ask for?
GD, I want a magic fairy wand.

[sleepyjeff]

SJ,

I'm really confused about the point you are trying to make. It sounds like you're saying that if you prefer to drink tap water instead of bottled water you shouldn't be drinking any other bottled beverages, participate in any sort of travel and live a completely green lifestyle.

Is that correct?

No. Not at all. What I am saying is that Obama is polluting....more than most anyone else.....his reasons for polluting are valid and I don't expect him to stop flying or drink only tap water, etc.....but that does not change the fact that he does pollute a lot more than most.



Things still need to get done and it unfortunately still takes burning fossil fuels to do it.

Exactly.

[Ghoulish Delight]

No. Not at all. What I am saying is that Obama is polluting....more than most anyone else.....his reasons for polluting are valid and I don't expect him to stop flying or drink only tap water, etc.....but that does not change the fact that he does pollute a lot more than most.





Exactly.So just because he is required to pollute in one way completely invalidates his efforts to pollute less in other ways?

Try again.

ETA: Or, to put it another way, "I'd better not try to improve my driving habits and use less gas because the food I buy is trucked across the country and that uses gas, so it's not environmentally sound to use less gas myself."

[Alex]

Or it is like making fun of somebody for drinking Diet Coke with their supersized lunch at McDonalds.

Since part of your meal is bad the assumption is that there's no reason for the rest of it to not be.

[sleepyjeff]

So just because he is required to pollute in one way completely invalidates his efforts to pollute less in other ways?



Not completely, no.

I suppose if an arsonist brought along a squirt gun to the scene of his next crime we should applaud his foresight.


(and no, I am not, in any way, comparing a good man like Senator Obama to someone like an arsonist...just an analogy I pulled out of thin air)

[sleepyjeff]

Or it is like making fun of somebody for drinking Diet Coke with their supersized lunch at McDonalds.

Since part of your meal is bad the assumption is that there's no reason for the rest of it to not be.


I do this....but what the employees at McDonads don't see is that I throw away half or more of the fries and discard the top bun off my Filet Fish(still bad for me, but not as bad as it could be).

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's not as if Obama is hopping in a jet to go joy riding. He's engaging in what's necessary to do what he's trying to do. If there were a way to do so without burning jet fuel, I'm sure he would. But that's an impossibility. That doesn't mean he's not making an effort to be responsible about the decisions he does have control over.

[Gemini Cricket]

Or it is like making fun of somebody for drinking Diet Coke with their supersized lunch at McDonalds.

Since part of your meal is bad the assumption is that there's no reason for the rest of it to not be.

I do that, too. I can't drink non-diet sodas. Too sweet.

[sleepyjeff]

It's not as if Obama is hopping in a jet to go joy riding. He's engaging in what's necessary to do what he's trying to do. If there were a way to do so without burning jet fuel, I'm sure he would. But that's an impossibility. That doesn't mean he's not making an effort to be responsible about the decisions he does have control over.

Fair enough I suppose.

[Tenigma]

So we've established here today that it's ok to pollute the planet if your job requires it or if you are on vacation...so long as you, once in a while, do some small gesture, a nod if you will, towards living a more green lifestyle.
Is it OK on LoT to call people for trolling if that's what they're doing?!?

[Not Afraid]

I do that as well (if I get a soft drink s opposed to water). Two reasons I do it: I like diet Pepsi better than regular and, if I'm going to be eating high-caloric food, why add more high calories to an already bad meal.

[Not Afraid]

No. Not at all. What I am saying is that Obama is polluting....more than most anyone else.....his reasons for polluting are valid and I don't expect him to stop flying or drink only tap water, etc.....but that does not change the fact that he does pollute a lot more than most.

So, what does that have to do with the media circus caused my the choice he made to drink tap water as opposed to bottled water?

If everyone followed his example it would probably add up to a lot of difference. At least he is making the right choice where he can. Non-travel isn't really an option but drinking tap water is.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Is it OK on LoT to call people for trolling if that's what they're doing?!?It is. But Sleepy's not a troll. Just horribly misguided. :evil:

[Tenigma]

It is. But Sleepy's not a troll. Just horribly misguided. :evil:

Oh! In that case here's a sign to help you get on the correct path!

http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-1.gif

Also, either of the following may also prove helpful:

http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-5l.gif http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-5a.gif

:D

[sleepyjeff]

So, what does that have to do with the media circus caused my the choice he made to drink tap water as opposed to bottled water?

I'd hardly call one line in one article in a local paper a media circus;)

If everyone followed his example it would probably add up to a lot of difference. At least he is making the right choice where he can. Non-travel isn't really an option but drinking tap water is.


Well, I guess that's true....but the title of the thread says "smaller footprint".....I guess I took that to mean smaller than it should be and that's where I disagreed. If it means smaller than it could be, than yeah, I guess that's quite true.

[sleepyjeff]

Oh! In that case here's a sign to help you get on the correct path!

http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-1.gif

Also, either of the following may also prove helpful:

http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-5l.gif http://www.trafficsign.us/100/reg/r3-5a.gif

:D

Is there one that says "Thru Traffic Keep Right" ?

:D

[Tenigma]

Is there one that says "Thru Traffic Keep Right"?
No just this one:
http://www.trafficsign.us/100/warn/w20-5rorg.gif

:evil:

[sleepyjeff]

No just this one:
http://www.trafficsign.us/100/warn/w20-5rorg.gif

:evil:

:snap:

[Kevy Baby]

GD, I want a magic fairy wand.Are you a eunuch now?

It is. But Sleepy's not a troll. Just horribly misguided. :evil:This is the official traffic sign for LoT

http://www.doopio.com/u/n/u_33.jpg

[€uroMeinke]

What about carbon sequestration? Carbonation might be a great way to move carbon out of the atmosphere and into our beverages

[sleepyjeff]

What about carbon sequestration? Carbonation might be a great way to move carbon out of the atmosphere and into our beverages


Yeah, lets do that:D

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Speaking of which, when is Obama going to campaign in the heart of America? Which state is the heart, exactly? Is there a lungs of America?

At a New Energy for America town hall meeting in Elkhart, IN. Watch the event live at http://my.barackobama.com/l... 09:03 AM August 06, 2008 from web
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At a New Energy for America town hall meeting in Berea, OH. Watch it live at http://my.barackobama.com/l... 01:40 PM August 05, 2008 from web
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In MI. Announcing a New Energy for America plan. Watch it live: http://my.barackobama.com/l... More at: http://scribd.com/barackobama 10:48 AM August 04, 2008 from web
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At a Working for Change town hall in Titusville, FL. Watch it live at http://my.barackobama.com/l... 09:26 AM August 02, 2008 from web
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At a working for change organizing meeting in Orlando, FL. Watch it live at http://my.barackobama.com/l... 05:12 PM August 01, 2008 from web
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Holding a town hall on economic security in St. Petersburg, FL. Watch it live at http://my.barackobama.com/l... 09:13 AM August 01, 2008 from web

[Gemini Cricket]

I'm not even straight and I read that as 'Titsville, FL'.
:D

[sleepyjeff]

Which state is the heart, exactly?

I don't know which one, "exactly", but I am pretty sure it's not Germany;)

[Not Afraid]

I don't know about the heart, but the heartland of America is today's Chevrolet.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

So, when is the Earth gonna move into the sun so we can get this all over-with?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Bakersfield both sucks and blows, so maybe it's the lungs.

[sleepyjeff]

It's working.....Obama's smaller footprint has stopped global warming in Chicago:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-tom-skilling-explainer-13aug13,0,918946.story


;)

[JWBear]

Bakersfield is a pimple on the ass of America.

[JWBear]

It's working.....Obama's smaller footprint has stopped global warming in Chicago:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-tom-skilling-explainer-13aug13,0,918946.story


;)

You're either joking, or don't understand how global warming works.

[sleepyjeff]

You're either joking, or don't understand how global warming works.

Both;)

[Tenigma]

Which state is the heart, exactly? Is there a lungs of America?
I don't know about in America but in China it sure ain't Beijing!

Hack cough cough hack hack patooey!

[Tenigma]

I don't know which one, "exactly", but I am pretty sure it's not Germany;)

OK this reminds me of Kevy Baby's hilarious intersection stop sign because... Obama gets criticized for not having any experience with international issues, and then when he goes overseas and visits with various countries, he gets criticized for not spending time in the Heartland of Amerrruhca.

Ayeeeeee.

[sleepyjeff]

OK this reminds me of Kevy Baby's hilarious intersection stop sign because... Obama gets criticized for not having any experience with international issues, and then when he goes overseas and visits with various countries, he gets criticized for not spending time in the Heartland of Amerrruhca.

Ayeeeeee.

Not really a critisism....I am more puzzled by it than anything else. Gore and Kerry both lost their elections by the narrowest of margins; I am sure Kerry wishes he would have spent a day or two more in Ohio and Gore certainly could have used an extra hour or so in Florida.....:eek:

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Not really a critisism....I am more puzzled by it than anything else. Gore and Kerry both lost their elections by the narrowest of margins; I am sure Kerry wishes he would have spent a day or two more in Ohio and Gore certainly could have used an extra hour or so in Florida.....:eek:You did see my post, yes? I know it's not exactly a full canvas of The Bread Baskety Squishy Center of Farmland Goodness, but it's a start.

Oh, and have you already forgotten that it was Clinton that did well in the metropolitan liberal strongholds, and Obama who won in the smaller, more rural states.

[scaeagles]

OK this reminds me of Kevy Baby's hilarious intersection stop sign because... Obama gets criticized for not having any experience with international issues, and then when he goes overseas and visits with various countries, he gets criticized for not spending time in the Heartland of Amerrruhca.

Ayeeeeee.

It happens all over with politicans. I remember when there some disaster somewhere and Bush got criticized for tourning from the air - he was disconnected from the poeple, blah, blah, blah. However, if he was there in person, the same people would be howling over how he was only there for a photo op and was in the way.

Doesn't matter what ANY politician does. The other side and his/her opponents will find cause to disagree and cite why this is exactly the wrong course of action. Others will criticize their political opponents for action A, and spin action A as not big deal for their candidate.

It's called politics. I'm guilty of it, and I would surmise that everyone posting in a political thread here has done it. Flip flops? "Well, those by my candidate are OK because it moves him closer to a position he can be elected".....or whatever else it is.

[sleepyjeff]

Oh, and have you already forgotten that it was Clinton that did well in the metropolitan liberal strongholds, and Obama who won in the smaller, more rural states.


Too bad Obama's not running against Clinton anymore(unless you guys can figure a way to convince America that McCain is not only Bush reincarnate but also Hillary's Twin cousin too);)